> There is nothing special about humans...  The only
> thing that might be considered special is their
> self-awareness, but this is only a result of large brain
> size.

Hmmm. so there are no animals with self awareness now in your special world?
Considering brain size, I do believe we lose to several species of whale. The
following
from: http://www.highnorth.no/Library/Myths/br-si-bo.htm

Species           Brain weight   Body weight   Brain weight %

Man                 1500           0,07           2,1
Bottlenose dolphin  1600           0,17           0,94
Dolphin              840           0,11           0,74
Asian elephant      7500           5,0            0,15
Killer whale        5620           6,0            0,094
Cow                  500           0,5            0,1
Pilot whale         2670           3,5            0,076
Sperm whale         7820           37,0           0,021
Fin whale           6930           90,0           0,008
Mouse                0,4           0,000,012      3,2

Interesting. Even a bottle-nose dolphin has a larger brain than 'Duard. Perhaps
it is
more accurate with facts and can understand something when it reads it. If you'd
like
to compare brain size to body mass, the mouse beats us out. This would suggest
that
both Elephants and whales are smarter than man...either that or a mouse is. At
least
it seems they have the brains to generally live in peace (from what I know that
has
been observed). Considering the theory of duard they are also several times more
self-aware.

However, I am sure 'Duard will finance a great divergence from these
measurements
via twisted statistical analysis, and will also claim I am not saying anything
whatever,
and that the facts (which apparently he loves only when he makes them up off the
top
of his head) are somehow wrong when compared to his great studies of limping
gnats, lunatic dux, and other paltry poultry.

I regret that snails were not included in this study.

Imabottle Knosdolpin Hokay

what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're just
pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly your
own definition. i mean, life.

ExistList FAQ

Last Updated: 01-May-2003 04:15

Contents
1.0 The List
1.1 The list's purpose
1.2 History
1.3 URLs for the list
1.4 Founder and moderators
1.5 Rules
2.0 Topics Discussed
2.1 Existentialism
2.2 Phenomenology
3.0 More Information
3.1 Official Exist List pages
3.2 Yahoo Homepage


1.0 The "Exist List"

1.1 Purpose
This mailing list is a community interested in
existentialism and phenomenology. Yes, Sartre,
Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, but also many others:
Frankl, May, Jaspers, and Merleau-Ponty to name a
few. This list encourages questions and exchanges
of information. We want to know about the latest
literature, articles, book releases, and more.

1.2 History
The list was started in the late 1980s on the
BITNET. It moved to FidoNet in 1992, then to
OneList, eGroups, and finally landing at its
current home on Yahoo Groups by 1999.

1.3 URLs for the Exist List
The mailing list URL is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist

The Official homepage URL is:
http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist

I maintain the "Existential Primer" at the
preceding URL. It is only a primer, not an all-
inclusive look at existentialism, phenomenology,
and continental philosophy.

1.4 Founder and Moderators
I, C. S. Wyatt, founded the list. Visit the URL
and read what I have posted. I am a reader and
writer interested in philosophy.

Is this group actively moderated? Ideally, no.
Only violations of the "personal attack" rule are
likely to result in a temporary "kick" from the
list. We have never "banned" anyone from the list
permanently and would like to keep it that way.
Language violations receive a private warning,
and that tends to be sufficient.

Moderators vary over time and may be located via
the Yahoo page.

1.5 What are the rules of the list?
No personal attacks. No lengthy discussions of
specific religious issues (take those to other
lists, please). No strong profanity (you know
which words those would be). Be polite, and try
to keep discussions on the topic of philosophy as
much as possible.

1.5.1 No personal attacks
We want this group to remain polite and
inviting. Be polite. If you disagree with
someone, explain your reasons without insulting
the other individual personally.

1.5.2 No lengthy discussions of religious issues
Long discussions of specific religious issues
belong in other mailing lists, not here.
Christian Existentialism is a valid point of
discussion, as are philosophers within that
grouping, but we do not want this list to be
dominated by discussions of Christianity.
Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, and many others were
not Christians. There is room for all topics, but
not for dwelling on one branch of existentialism.

1.5.3 No profanity
This list is used by students. We expect proper
behavior.

1.5.4 No "flooding" the group with posts
We ask that members limit their posts to
five-to-ten per day, preferably fewer when
possible. Members posting too often appear to be
"shouting" at the group. Dominating a group
causes others to leave, as when one person
dominates a dinner party. Share the floor, as it
were, and encourage participation by as many
members as possible. Do not "hog" space on the
list -- it is poor form.


2.0 List Topics
First, new members should read our Official Homepage:
http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist

After reading the homepage, then try to remain on
topic. Topics allowed include existentialism,
phenomenology, and Continental philosophy.

2.1 Existentialism Defined
Visit
http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/elexicon.asp for
a list of definitions and a complete lexicon used
by academics when discussing existententialism.

2.1.1 Merriam-Webster Online
ex·is·ten·tial·ism. Pronunciation: -'ten(t)-
sh&-"li-z&m. noun. A chiefly 20th century
philosophical movement embracing diverse
doctrines but centering on analysis of
individual existence in an unfathomable
universe and the plight of the individual
who must assume ultimate responsibility for
his acts of free will without any certain
knowledge of what is right or wrong or good
or bad

2.1.2 Webster's New World Dictionary, Second
College Edition. William Collins Publishers,
Inc.; Cleveland, Ohio; 1979
The doctrine that existence takes precedence
over essence and holding that man is totally
free and responsible for his acts. This
responsibility is the source of dread and
anguish that encompass mankind.

2.1.3 American Heritage Dictionary of the
English Language, Third Edition. Houghton
Mifflin Company, 1992
A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness
and isolation of the individual experience
in a hostile or indifferent universe,
regards human existence as unexplainable,
and stresses freedom of choice and
responsibility for the consequences of one's
acts.

2.1.4 Britannica Concise Encyclopedia.
April 20, 2003, from Encyclopædia Britannica
Premium Service.
http://www.britannica.com/

Philosophical movement oriented toward two
major themes, the analysis of human existence
and the centrality of human choice.

Existentialism's chief theoretical energies
are thus devoted to questions about ontology
and decision. It traces its roots to the
writings of Soren Kierkegaard and Friedrich
Nietzsche. As a philosophy of human existence,
existentialism found its best 20th-century
exponent in Karl Jaspers; as a philosophy of
human decision, its foremost representative
was J.-P. Sartre. Sartre finds the essence
of human existence in freedom—in the duty of
self-determination and the freedom of choice—
and therefore spends much time describing the
human tendency toward "bad faith," reflected
in humanity's perverse attempts to deny its
own responsibility and flee from the truth
of its inescapable freedom.

2.2 Phenomenolgy

2.2.1 Merriam-Webster Online
phe·nom·e·nol·o·gy. Pronunciation: fi-"nä-
m&-'nä-l&-jE. noun. circa 1797
Etymology: German Phänomenologie, from
Phänomenon phenomenon + -logie –logy
1: the study of the development of human
consciousness and self-awareness as a
preface to philosophy or a part of
philosophy. Experience usually is considered
over science, senses over objective reality
due to how we acquire knowledge.
2 (a) A philosophical movement that
describes the formal structure of the
objects of awareness and of awareness itself
in abstraction from any claims concerning
existence. The typological classification of
a class of phenomena <the phenomenology of
religion> (b) An analysis produced by
phenomenological investigation

3.0 More Information

3.1 Official List Pages
The Existential Primer currently features
profiles on the following writers/philosophers:
de Beauvoir, Camus, Dostoevsky, Hegel, Heidegger,
Husserl, Jaspers, Kafka, Kierkegaard, Merleau-
Ponty, Nietzsche, Sartre, and several others in
progress, too.

The pages are works in progress. See
http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/index.html on a
regular basis for updates. For a non-framed
version, visit
http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/exist.html

3.2 Visit the Yahoo Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
The Yahoo page and my page include links to other
philosophy sites, databases for research, and
even a live chat option.

And I did learn something from you, eduard!


----- Original Message -----
From: eduard at home <yeoman@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [existlist] THE SUPERMAN


> drQ,
>
> If I may give my 2 cents here ...
>
> "Understanding" is a matter of comparisons and associations.  I can
understand how a clock works because I can visualize the process and hear
the tic-toc bit.  The brain, however, does not have eyes or ears, or any
senses that would allow such comparison.  To ask whether the brain
understands itself, is like asking if a conveyor belt is aware of the
packages it is moving from point A to point B.
>
> eduard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "drQ" <dr-q@...>
> To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:14 PM
> Subject: [existlist] THE SUPERMAN
>
>
> > and you believe emotions and thinking are in separate compartments of
the
> > brain!!! and everything in life is so compartmentalized and
understandable
> > and we simply exist to rear like all primitive species!!! and the female
can
> > only exists within the solidarity of the group! unlike u the
> > individualized.. the highly evolved... You've been reading alot of
Nietzsche
> > ’s "SUPERMAN", it seems!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: bhvwd <valleywestdental@...>
> > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:38 PM
> > Subject: [existlist] Obvious agreement
> >
> >
> > > How odd you should agree. The female survival strategy is one of
> > > cooperation, communication, group solidarity. But then can you
> > > divorce what you feel from what you think? Can you understand that
> > > some others do not feel the needs you so conveniently acceed to?I
> > > speak of this volatile subject because those of us who do not
> > > entertain group identity are tired of being portrayed as
> > > neanderthals.Emotion is the primative brain function not personal
> > > intellectual  identity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
> > >
> > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
> >
> > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

drQ,

Thankyou ...

eduard in Canada

----- Original Message -----
From: "drQ" <dr-q@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [existlist] THE SUPERMAN


> And I did learn something from you, eduard!

Yes N. was brutalized by his sis!
Psychoanalysis of N. was done recently thu. I'll find the source book soon!
It's lying somewhere! He Was diagnosed with "schizophrenia - paranoia".
Nothing wrong with that, really! Above all, It's hard to judge any if we
consider background circumstances. Even it's hard to judge Hitler in that
manner! Sometime in life, it's hard to tell the aggressor from the
victim!!!!... But but to agree with N. ( who inspired Nazism) and Hitler
that's a different matter...
drQ

----- Original Message -----
From: Knott <god@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:12 AM
Subject: [existlist] Re: no, no, no, I agree!


> > Nietzsche was psychoanalyzed by brain scientists to be "PARANOID" and
> > MISOGYNIST!
>
> Forgive me, but what is wrong with that?
>
> 1. the analysis was made by 'psychiatrists' who could not have had much
training in
> the art....Sir N. having been born some 12 years before Freud.
>
> 2. Hating women is probably one of the most healthy things a man who spent
quite a
> lot of his latter time indebted to his sister could be.
>
> 3. Paranoid was a relatively new term in his lifetime, cropping up around
1957 and
> popularized in the 1880s...just after his death.
>
> 4. "brain scientists" of the time were probably just making the transition
from
> trepanning the skull to release evil spirits.
>
> I am not one for history, but if we follow this story it is unlikely to be
an accurate
> representation.
>
> Pazt Fitz
>
>
>
> Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

drQ,

Can it be that most dead philosophers had some hang-up or whatever??  Perhaps
that is why they became philosophers.  Perhaps their writing is really a means
by which they have sought to deal with their own insanity.  Makes you wonder as
to who you are getting your advise from.  Of course, we all have hang-ups, so I
suppose one source is as good as another.

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "drQ" <dr-q@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: [existlist] I agree... yes and no!


> Yes N. was brutalized by his sis!
> Psychoanalysis of N. was done recently thu. I'll find the source book soon!
> It's lying somewhere! He Was diagnosed with "schizophrenia - paranoia".
> Nothing wrong with that, really! Above all, It's hard to judge any if we
> consider background circumstances. Even it's hard to judge Hitler in that
> manner! Sometime in life, it's hard to tell the aggressor from the
> victim!!!!... But but to agree with N. ( who inspired Nazism) and Hitler
> that's a different matter...
> drQ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

just_tiis,

The bottom line, however, is that life is important.  So
whether it is pretended or not, there is meaning.

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "just_tiis" <just_tiis@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:17 AM
Subject: [existlist] it's actually meaningless


> what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it.
you're just
> pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's
simly your
> own definition. i mean, life.
>
>
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Freud suggested that philosophy is an outcome of "unsatisfied libido" in the
past (during early years) or present... maybe!!!!...  read on....

*The moment a man questions the meaning and value of life he is sick, since
objectively neither has any existence; by asking this question one is merely
admitting to a store of unsatisfied libido to which something else must have
happened, a kind of fermentation leading to sadness and depression.

*Unsatisfied libido is responsible for producing all art and literature."

— Sigmund Freud



----- Original Message -----
From: eduard at home <yeoman@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [existlist] I agree... yes and no!


> drQ,
>
> Can it be that most dead philosophers had some hang-up or whatever??
Perhaps that is why they became philosophers.  Perhaps their writing is
really a means by which they have sought to deal with their own insanity.
Makes you wonder as to who you are getting your advise from.  Of course, we
all have hang-ups, so I suppose one source is as good as another.
>
> eduard
>

"The Individual Defines Everything" (CSW)

Mary Jo

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "just_tiis" <just_tiis@y...> wrote:
> what's the point, huh? trying to make the most out of it. you're
just
> pretending that it's meaningful. as a matter of fact, it's simly
your
> own definition. i mean, life.

Eduard, For some reason Hemmingway did not cause me to follow him ,
beyond for whom the bell tolls. I was in my working class hero  mode
and found him eliteist. He is a good writer and  certainly  could be
said to refer to philosophical themes.
  I like Rand, who reminds me of Frank Lloyd Right. I think Rand to be
a modernist existentialist. The other term used to refer to the
author, I reject. What is that? Objectivist. Means nothing to me.
  I really like Julie Christy and  was completely overwhelmed by her
in her fur hood. I missed the rest of the movie. After
Dostoevski,and  Tolstoy  I couldn`t do another  long winded Russian.I
got the plot messed up with funny girl, I think Redford should have
gotten Julie Christy and Omar, Barbara. I know I`m a mysoginist,
antisemetic, racist pig who needs a haircut. Bill

Bookdoc, Thank you, I really did not have the energy to do that most
needed decapitation. Well done, hale and hearty!Mysoginist, such a
greasey, greasey word!It brings forward images of  a smelly
dishwasher beating off in the garbage cans. Somehow I feel
vindicated, I needed that. Bill

Knot's argument is not valid, Bill. Psychoanalysis of N. was done in modern
time.. post Freud's and neofrueds!!!
and you, my friend, like all great men of history who reared (like adam's
god) and contributed to progress of the species by extending their super
genes in the pool of life, how can you stand the sound of garbage cans and
the sound of dish washing by your slaves (bit ur divorced thu!) !!!? of
course u can't stand the noise those demeaning uncreative repetitive
chores... but now my dear since you have accomplished your role in life and
had disseminated your seeds, why don't you leave!!! waste for nature u
know.. to stay is to deplete the Earth's resources... even we can freeze
your seeds in the bank for centuries in case men like u become extinct!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: bhvwd <valleywestdental@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: [existlist] Yes, Yes, Knot, Knot


> Bookdoc, Thank you, I really did not have the energy to do that most
> needed decapitation. Well done, hale and hearty!Mysoginist, such a
> greasey, greasey word!It brings forward images of  a smelly
> dishwasher beating off in the garbage cans. Somehow I feel
> vindicated, I needed that. Bill
>
>
>
> Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

> Psychoanalysis of N. was done recently thu.

I always enjoy when psychiatrists ask questions of the dead and actually get
answers.
Suggests to me that they are studying the wrong mind.

Unread Realist

> Knot's argument is not valid, Bill. Psychoanalysis of N. was done in modern
> time.. post Freud's and neofrueds!!!

Interesting, another soul whose demands makes the wants so.

Proclaiming from no matter how high a pedistal still leaves a morsel to be
dismantled.
If you asked those same 'psychiatrists' what is the method of treating a
patient, they
would likely choose some means of examination through dialogue. I don't believe
that such dialogue can be generated with static text...that is, assuming the
texts N.
wrote were even a valid representation.

You see, we don't know if he was writing what he thought or what he felt was a
rather
clever fiction -- or clever philosophy. We also can't judge the writings of an
insane
person (if he was) as a  valid rendition of their own perspective. For example,
I
expound on interest, which is something i believe, but also absurdity which, as
part
of life as it is perceived at least throgh these senses, is perhaps not a good
practice if
one is at all interested in survival.

In my book, that creates a rather interesting reverberation where the analist is
anally
expounding upon a source which may either be directly unreliable or whose source
is.
Tis more likely a case of unreliable narrator (where the narrator is telling a
story that
is not true, but can well be believed) -- especially if they are right. If they
aren't there
is no way to tell if that which is expounded is, perhaps, just structure. We see
in the
text of Lolita, Humbert proclaiming that in 'sanitoriums' he would willfully
deceive the
keepers as part of his game. That is an interesting possibility for N. We see in
Hamlet,
a fellow who could either actually be insane, or one who is acting insane in
order to
retain sanity (there are other variations) -- but the actuality of the play is
that you can
have a preference, but never really know. Of course these are just fictional
models,
but I might suggest that self-perception is a fictional model constrewed by the
individual -- or a fictitious model. Perhaps each fiction with its own
unreliable
narrator, which I would hesitate to analize.

This is all putting aside the idea that psycho-analysis may of course have other
meanings and lesser value than some would like to allow it. In other words, it
can't be
determined to be a valid science, no matter how much it might cost.

The only value in the writings of N. is in reacting to the words. You can like
them or
hate them, embody them, defend or exhalt...rue and defile...but you have no idea
if
they are true meaning, well-intended -- or insane -- or clever deception. and to
these analists: if they are serious about their work, they should study writing
and
self-perception, and become unserious about deriving mental states of men long
dead by words written and translated and studied. These studies themselves,
should
you ask me, are not sane.

Moredoubt Lessright

Eduard, I abhor telling you the brutal truth, you are no longer
classified a "Liberal" . You, my good man, are  a recluse. A liberal
is a person of interaction, a social animal. Enjoy your cave, Hoy
Barbari. Bill

I looked at the www.naturalism.org website and it appears to be totally opposed
to existentialism.  The FAQ-like section describes man as a helpless sum of
external forces, no personal responsibility or free will.  Punishment for
criminals is described only as a means to educate wrong-doers with no
expectation that they could have made another choice, only that genetics and
external forces made them do the wrong thing and the punishment must exist to
provide an opposing force to those which caused the criminal activity to occur.

This "naturalism" is the same thing as scientific determinism.  It is almost an
opposite of existentialism.

Zith
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mary Jo Malo
   To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:50 PM
   Subject: [existlist] Re: Death, Nothing, and Subjectivity by Tom Clark


   eduard,

   I'm sorry. I forgot to list the URL, didn't I. Here it is:

   http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/MindDict/main.html

   His website appears to be active. I assume he's alive.

   http://naturalism.org/

   Mary Jo

   --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduard at home <yeoman@v...> wrote:
   > Mary Jo,
   >
   > Is Tom Clark dead??  From what you describe, I like his
   > philosophy, albeit I would disinclined to apply a label --
   > i.e. "Naturalist".
   >
   > There is nothing special about humans.  They live and die,
   > just like the rest of the life in the biosphere.  The only
   > thing that might be considered special is their
   > self-awareness, but this is only a result of large brain
   > size.
   >
   > eduard
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: "Mary Jo Malo" <alcyon11@y...>
   > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:46 PM
   > Subject: [existlist] Death, Nothing, and Subjectivity by Tom
   > Clark
   >
   >
   > > This is an interesting paper at the "Dictionary of the
   > Philosophy of
   > > Mind" website and deals with these three subjects
   > previously
   > > discussed in this group. It takes a little clicking to get
   > to the
   > > actual paper.
   > >
   > > 1.  Go to this URL:
   > > 2.  Click on the "Index" tab at the top of the page.
   > > 3.  In the alphabetical index click on "consciousness"
   > > 4.  Click on "Consciousness Papers On-line
   > > 5.  Scroll down to "Philosophy of Consciousness, Misc."
   > > 6.  Find the paper entitled "Death, Nothing and
   > Subjectivity"
   > >
   > > If I understand Clark correctly, he believes in the
   > biological
   > > explanation of self-awareness; believes everyone has a
   > subjective
   > > experience; we can't know what came before birth or what
   > comes after
   > > death; but that our subjective experience of life is
   > continuous. It's
   > > an interesting synthesis. He also doesn't believe there is
   > a nothing
   > > from which we appeared or a nothing which we enter upon
   > death. Tom
   > > Clark is a self-proclaimed "Naturalist".
   > >
   > > Please forgive me if any of this has been referenced
   > before.
   > >
   > > Mary Jo
   > >
   > >
   > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This morning while brushing my teeth[this is a significant time
period for El dentiste]I was thinking about adsurdism, bookdoc and
Strawberry Fields Forever. I need all the lyrics to the song to
complete the train of thought. I think it will be  apparent where it
leads. Bill

Fine and interesting-- but was commenting on ur earlier statement: "the
analysis was made by 'psychiatrists' who could not have had much training in
the art....Sir N. having been born some 12 years before Freud."


----- Original Message -----
Subject: [existlist] Re: Untied my knots and butchered pros


> > Knot's argument is not valid, Bill. Psychoanalysis of N. was done in
modern
> > time.. post Freud's and neofrueds!!!
>
> Interesting, another soul whose demands makes the wants so.

> Fine and interesting-- but was commenting on ur earlier statement: "the
> analysis was made by 'psychiatrists' who could not have had much training in
> the art....Sir N. having been born some 12 years before Freud."

My point being that good psychoanalysis -- if there is such a thing -- would not
have
been happening much before N. croaked, Freud being all of 32 at the time, and
the
terms not yet established. When someone has been dead many years they won't tap
dance, nor tell the truth...and neither will their bones, or writings.

Folded Paper

Bill,

The movie done by David Lean on Dr. Zhivago really sucks.
The book, however, is a treasure.  I hear they are going to
redo the movie which will more closely follows the book.  If
anyone has not read the book, I strongly recommend it.  It
is a hard read but worth it.  I have read it perhaps 7 times
now and I get more out of it each time.  I am not sure if
one could call Dr. Zhivago an Existentialist, but the story
is certainly a review of his particular existence.  It is
also of interest to read of Lara's view on her life
objective.

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "bhvwd" <valleywestdental@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: [existlist] Your list


> Eduard, For some reason Hemmingway did not cause me to
follow him ,
> beyond for whom the bell tolls. I was in my working class
hero  mode
> and found him eliteist. He is a good writer and  certainly
could be
> said to refer to philosophical themes.
>  I like Rand, who reminds me of Frank Lloyd Right. I think
Rand to be
> a modernist existentialist. The other term used to refer
to the
> author, I reject. What is that? Objectivist. Means nothing
to me.
>  I really like Julie Christy and  was completely
overwhelmed by her
> in her fur hood. I missed the rest of the movie. After
> Dostoevski,and  Tolstoy  I couldn`t do another  long
winded Russian.I
> got the plot messed up with funny girl, I think Redford
should have
> gotten Julie Christy and Omar, Barbara. I know I`m a
mysoginist,
> antisemetic, racist pig who needs a haircut. Bill
>
>
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>
>

Bill,

Yes a recluse and loving every minute of it.

But you misread me.  My reference to "Liberal" is large "L"
Liberal, not small "l" liberal.  Its a political Party in
Canada.  I vote Liberal, because I agree with their social
policies -- which actually were ripped off from other
Parties [a good tactic if you want to stay in power].  You
could say that I am a Socialist, but not inclined to being
social.

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "bhvwd" <valleywestdental@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: [existlist] Mutually exclusive


> Eduard, I abhor telling you the brutal truth, you are no
longer
> classified a "Liberal" . You, my good man, are  a recluse.
A liberal
> is a person of interaction, a social animal. Enjoy your
cave, Hoy
> Barbari. Bill
>
>
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Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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>
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>
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>
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>
>

Zith,

I agree with your finding.  It seemed to me that the
Naturalism thingy is devoid of the subjective which is
everything to Existentialism.  That is why I don't like
labels.  One could have an interest in scientific processes
and still indulge in a subjective view of personal existence
...

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zithromax" <zithromax@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: [existlist] Naturalism = Scientific Determinism,
opposite of existentialism


> I looked at the www.naturalism.org website and it appears
to be totally opposed to existentialism.  The FAQ-like
section describes man as a helpless sum of external forces,
no personal responsibility or free will.  Punishment for
criminals is described only as a means to educate
wrong-doers with no expectation that they could have made
another choice, only that genetics and external forces made
them do the wrong thing and the punishment must exist to
provide an opposing force to those which caused the criminal
activity to occur.
>
> This "naturalism" is the same thing as scientific
determinism.  It is almost an opposite of existentialism.
>
> Zith

Bill,

================
Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you
see
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Always, no sometimes, think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a "Yes" but it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever.
=============

eduard


----- Original Message -----
From: "bhvwd" <valleywestdental@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:05 PM
Subject: [existlist] Musings on the bookdoc


> This morning while brushing my teeth[this is a significant
time
> period for El dentiste]I was thinking about adsurdism,
bookdoc and
> Strawberry Fields Forever. I need all the lyrics to the
song to
> complete the train of thought. I think it will be
apparent where it
> leads. Bill
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson,
Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/ACsqlB/TM
> ----------------------------------------------------------
-----------~->
>
> Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
> (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Me too! I'm socialist but hate isolationist! but I don, find being liberal
and asocial (well, bit antisocial too :D) mutually exclusive!!! Why so?
people here are soooooo conservative yet very very sociable!!! the more
primitive the society the less separated the individuals!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
Strawberry Fields Forever
The Beatles

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Always, no sometimes, think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a "Yes" but it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-



----- Original Message -----
From: eduard at home <yeoman@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [existlist] Mutually exclusive


> Bill,
>
> Yes a recluse and loving every minute of it.
>
> But you misread me.  My reference to "Liberal" is large "L"
> Liberal, not small "l" liberal.  Its a political Party in
> Canada.  I vote Liberal, because I agree with their social
> policies -- which actually were ripped off from other
> Parties [a good tactic if you want to stay in power].  You
> could say that I am a Socialist, but not inclined to being
> social.
>
> eduard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bhvwd" <valleywestdental@...>
> To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:52 AM
> Subject: [existlist] Mutually exclusive
>
>
> > Eduard, I abhor telling you the brutal truth, you are no
> longer
> > classified a "Liberal" . You, my good man, are  a recluse.
> A liberal
> > is a person of interaction, a social animal. Enjoy your
> cave, Hoy
> > Barbari. Bill
> >
> >

drQ,

Yes.  People are closer in primitive societies, because they
are more dependent upon each other.  In modern society, you
can be live on your own.

When you speak of liberal or conservative in Canada, it is
necessary to say whether the terms are capitalized or not.
The terms Liberal and Conservative refer to political
parties here.

eduard

----- Original Message -----
From: "drQ" <dr-q@...>
To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [existlist] Mutually exclusive and no one in my
tree!


> Me too! I'm socialist but hate isolationist! but I don,
find being liberal
> and asocial (well, bit antisocial too :D) mutually
exclusive!!! Why so?
> people here are soooooo conservative yet very very
sociable!!! the more
> primitive the society the less separated the individuals!

hAHAHAH

In a message dated 7/31/03 1:15:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dr-q@...
writes:

<< and you believe emotions and thinking are in separate compartments of the
  brain!!! and everything in life is so compartmentalized and understandable
  and we simply exist to rear like all primitive species!!! and the female can
  only exists within the solidarity of the group! unlike u the
  individualized.. the highly evolved... You've been reading alot of Nietzsche
  ’s "SUPERMAN", it seems! >>


You'd be more inclined to call it "Overman", had you read a shred of it!

In a message dated 7/31/03 2:28:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dr-q@...
writes:

<< Nietzsche was psychoanalyzed by brain scientists to be "PARANOID" and
  MISOGYNIST! >>

AH AH, Be careful not to commit the fallacy ad hominem.  Nietzsche often
argued similar to this reasoning himself, although he almost always had
something
to Back iT UP.

--MATT_C

In a message dated 7/31/03 4:03:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
yeoman@... writes:

<< To ask whether the brain understands itself, is like asking if a conveyor
belt is aware of the packages it is moving from point A to point B. >>

If the brain is the conveyor belt, what is point B?

--MATT_C