The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
Christ.  The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is conforming
to the image of Christ.  The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, theslink@J... wrote:
>
> I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big
turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering
for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of
the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title
about pedophilia?
>
> Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as
easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was
seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
Can anybody offer any words of advice??

Hey slink!
thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the power that he
has already given you over the last year. It is frightening to be so vulnerable
to failure. Pedophilia is so stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing
with it, as if it is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be
prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote. Continue to
share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I don't struggle with
pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous encounters with men. You and I
can be in dialog about what that was like. I will remember you in prayer. May
the Lord grant you power and freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!

Michael

theslink@... wrote:

I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual
encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never
offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the
past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a
year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my
group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to
recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making
friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a
child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and
grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in
my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem
to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional
problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and
masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I
really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friend,

I wish you had given a name by which to address you ....

At 03:39 AM 10/1/2003 +0000, theslink@... wrote:

>I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
>homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys.
>While I have never offended with under age kids

Praise God that He has kept you from that!

>I have had problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the
>Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a
>big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
>feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
>homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members
>of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

Unfortunately that subject is still largely "taboo" while homosexuality is
now very much a subject on everyone's tongue -- whether positive or
negative. So the books I've read in which pedophilia is addressed are from
the viewpoint of keeping children safe from predators, etc.

You are NOT a predator.

There's something in sexual attraction that attracts us to people who have
something we lack. That clearly works in heterosexual attraction. But even
in homosexual attraction, individuals are usually attracted to their
"opposites" -- unless it's a sexual addiction that's indiscriminate &
engaged in for the physical drug effect (which deadens pain, by the way).

First of all, I must say that I am not a professional counselor. But I do
have a fair bit of experience in life ... And, although the "inner child"
idea has been misused in psychology, there is some truth to it. We all
carry our childhood with us in some manner. Sometimes we react to
situations more like the child we used to be than the mature adults that we
are supposed to be. For such purposes it's useful to think of our "inner
child" which reacts to stimuli around us and sometimes overcomes our
"adult" reactions.

Just this last weekend I attended a women's retreat in which the key
speaker was a very successful professional woman -- one who had partied
with the high and the mighty, wheeled and dealed in millions, etc. She's a
brilliant woman who was neglected and abused as a child.  She had locked up
so much of her childhood in her memory that she could remember nothing
until after years of counseling. She's very aware of her past now, and when
she catches herself reacting emotionally as a child (e.g. in fear,
self-hatred, etc.), she will mentally put her arms around that "inner
child" and tell her, "It's okay. You don't need to be afraid. Jesus loves
you" ... that sort of thing. Gradually she has learned to integrate her
professional, confident self with her personal fearful self...  But she
still has a ways to go, since she confessed that she has no trouble
speaking in front of thousands but still finds one-to-one relationships
intimidating, thinking things such as, She probably wonders why I wore
these clothes, etc. .... In other words, she's self-conscious & feels she
isn't likely to be accepted as a person. And she is still a successful
business owner, a world traveler, always dressed in stylish, expensive
clothes ...

There's more, but I just wanted to give you a little idea ...

In your case you do remember some of the abuse you went through. (There may
be more that you don't remember.) That child you once were never received
the nurturing and love he deserved. And that child is still part of you,
affecting the way you see the world. In your case, the need for nurturing
and love has morphed into sexual attraction. And you unconsciously seek
your "opposite." In the way you tell it, that includes children ....

I suspect that the road to recovery may be shortened for you if you get
some help dealing with childhood issues. If you'll email me directly at
<inge@...> and tell me approximately where you live, I may be able to
find some lay Christians trained in a ministry that specializes in such
help. If you are reading this on the web and my email address is
incomplete, go to http://www.glow.cc and click on "Inge's Inklings." That
will take you to a section with my articles, and my email address will be
clear.

There are some things you can do yourself, and the key is to ask *Jesus* to
show you the truth about yourself -- that you are *loved,* that He died
for  you and that He would have died for *just* you. The problem is that
you probably know that intellectually, but your inner child does not know
that *emotionally.* And it's in helping your emotions to "know" the truth
that you can get some help.

>Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key
>to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as
>making friends? There has to be something more to this.

You are quite right. However, the reason that same-gender relationships are
so helpful in recovery from sexual attraction to your own gender is that
they are affirming and a way of experiencing genuine affection and love --
something for which sex is only a poor substitute. When that deep need for
affirmation and love starts being met, the desire for false intimacy lessens.

>I was seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
>sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still
>think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection by my peers.

As you may sense from what I've written above, I agree with you.

>I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on changing my
>behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.

That's a good start. After all, it's the sexual *behavior* that is sinful.
However, God desires to meet that emotional need within you as well. If you
will use your imagination (the same one you've used for sexual fantasies)
and imagine yourself as the child you once were, being held on Jesus' lap
and cradled in His arms, you may find that helpful. After all He *does*
love you and

>Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more under
>control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
>out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust
>and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two
>weeks. I really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of
>advice??

Actually, you are already quite "normal." Heterosexual men deal with the
same problems you do. They just look different. Whether lust is towards
other men or other women, it's still outside God's design for sex.

I praise God for the progress you have made. Now immerse yourself in the
love of God. Read and re-read the gospels. Use your imagination to place
yourself in the presence of God. (You're always in His presence, but don't
"know it" emotionally. That's where imagination helps. And that's the
purpose for which He gave us the gift of imagination. Don't shut it down,
but use it for the purpose He intended.) Read the Psalms. And always pray
for the Holy Spirit's guidance before you open your Bible.

Every morning, begin your day by reminding yourself that Jesus loves you.
Then lay all your plans for that day at His feet to be given up or carried
out as His providence shall indicate. Spend time talking to Him and
*listening* to Him For that, you'll need to spend some time in Bible
reading -- not a hurried reading of long passages, but just enough to reach
a passage that is meaningful to you. Then meditate on that passage and keep
it in  your mind for the day. And you can keep in touch with Jesus
throughout the day by lifting your heart to Him in prayer. (By the way,
prayer is talking to God as to a friend.)

May the Lord bless you and keep you and enfold you in His arms of love.

In His love,
Inge Anderson



           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************

Hi Guys,

One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when he
warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said that it
would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt one of these
little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters is a period of
confinement plus financial penalties then a period of partial freedom and
ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely required immediate death
penalty by societal stoning. I met a child molester some 18 years ago. I was so
repulsed by him that I couldn't even peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were
portrayed as anything but perverts in our society years ago most straight people
were repulsed at the mere thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never
excepts child molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Tim Way

Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
Hey slink!
thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the power that he
has already given you over the last year. It is frightening to be so vulnerable
to failure. Pedophilia is so stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing
with it, as if it is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be
prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote. Continue to
share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I don't struggle with
pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous encounters with men. You and I
can be in dialog about what that was like. I will remember you in prayer. May
the Lord grant you power and freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!

Michael

theslink@... wrote:

I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual
encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never
offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the
past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a
year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my
group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to
recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making
friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a
child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and
grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in
my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem
to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional
problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and
masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I
really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim,

Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
inappropriate juncture.

A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I  pointed
out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
lamenting that society no longer did this.

How would that help *you*?

That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
young people.  Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
141.3:
"Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
*not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
affect a fellow struggler.

Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

Blessings,
Inge Anderson

At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
>Hi Guys,
>
>One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
>he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
>that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
>one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
>is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
>partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
>required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
>molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
>peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
>in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
>thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
>molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Tim Way

           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************

Hello all. There is a new web site for Christian men who have
struggled with same sex attraction. Although it is localized for the
Dallas/Fort Worth area, it is a site for all. It is a site for
encouragement and hope. We are all children that God loves.
Sometimes we have felt like giving up, but when we finally give in
to sin, we feel even worse and realize that without God, there is no
hope and no salvation. We need to stand up together in prayer for
one another. We fight against rulers of darkness, and sometimes we
fight against ourselves. I am asking that even though we need to
confess and pour out our hearts to one another sometimes, that we
also use the web site for encouragement and to give God the glory
for the Grace He so richly offers to us. God bless you friends and
brothers. Don't look back. Always look forward, and even if one
falls,simply repent, cling to God even more, and be faithful unto
death. God bless, BK

Website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exgay_denton_dallas/

Thanks Inge!
I totally agree!
This is not a public trial, but a support group!
Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be
slammed by Tim! What a shame!
Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our
power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and
encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with
teen boys.

Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

Mike
Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
Tim,

Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
inappropriate juncture.

A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I  pointed
out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
lamenting that society no longer did this.

How would that help *you*?

That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
young people.  Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
141.3:
"Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
*not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
affect a fellow struggler.

Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

Blessings,
Inge Anderson

At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
>Hi Guys,
>
>One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
>he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
>that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
>one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
>is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
>partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
>required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
>molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
>peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
>in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
>thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
>molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Tim Way

           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My name is Randy. I live in Irving, Texas. I have just joined the exgay groups
listed in the distribution of this email. I am enclosing the information that I
provided to the Struggler group for all to see, and so I don't have to retype it
five times over!!

I have been busy trying to read numerous postings on all groups since yesterday
to get a feel for what goes on within them. I like what I am seeing, and I know
this is excactly what I need. Below is what I sent to Struggler in answer to
there to questions for all to see.
_____________________________________
What I sent to Struggler:

1. What is your reason for joining?

I am a 54 year old male who has been living the gay lifestyle for almost 21
years now. I have been through many experiences. All along I have tried to
justify my 'gay' lifestyle but have never been successful in doing so. I have
lived in constant guilt with the lifestyle I have been embracing, and I have had
many experiences that as a total only confirm to me that what I have been doing
is wrong..a sin..and I must change it. Everything has either ended in tragedy or
at best been the fullfillment of a temporal lust. I believe that God has been
telling me and proving to me through his holy spirit and the experiences that I
have had that my soul has been pervaded by darkness and the light and peace that
i once knew is gone because of the choices I have made.There are volumes to what
I have been through. Divorce,  two gay partners, now HIV positive, and the loss
of a recent gay friend to aids. A young, vibrant, cheerful man who had a
profound impact on me when I watched him take his last
  breath in the hospital and I came face to face with my own mortality in that
moment. A man who I believe was also a Christian. This just happened this last
week. I have had the steadfast love and prayers of my family for the entire 21
years although they have never accepted my homosexual lifestyle. My soul is so
heavy and darkened that for the first time in 21 years I have prayed to God to
forgive me for my sin, to take me back into his loving care and begin to fill my
soul with his light once again. I am very heavy ladden and depressed and want to
know joy and peace again in my life. I believe I am saved and a Christian, but I
have walked in darkness for all these years and simply now realize that I am
just a sinner who needs forgiveness, and God's healing grace in order to
continue living. I want to have life eternal and to once again know peace and
joy in this life I have hear and now. My life is currently in emotional turmoil
and I know that only by making the right choices to
  seek God's forgiveness first, turn from my sins secondly and begin to live a
life that honors God and is in accordance with his word will I then slowly
regain the emotional stability, peace, and happiness I once had.


2. What are your beliefs regarding your faith?

I believe that what the Bible says about homosexuality is true and even though I
have listened to those who have tried to misinterpret it for years, I know deep
in my heart that homosexuality is a sin. I believe that God sent his son Jesus
Christ to die for all mankind's sins and through faith in Jesus Christ we are
saved and our sins are forgiven. I believe in God the Father, The Son, and the
Holy Spirit. I believe that we must seek forgiveness of our sins through Jesus
Christ our Lord and repent (turn from) our sins, and look to God to give us his
grace that will in turn strengthen us and allow us to live as Christians should.

_______________________

I want to get involved in sharing, learning, getting help, and yes...even
helping others as soon as I can and any way I may be able to. Just give me a
little time to get organized with setting up folders in email and such with each
group. I am so excited because just the leg work I have done so far is already
beginning to turn me in the right direction and bringing me some peace and
joy....a direction I have not been traveling in for many years now.

I have been reading several postings from each group that God is already using
to shed light on many things for me and helping to lift the darkness from my
soul. I view this as a journey and no quick fix other than knowing that God is
there to forgive me for my sin through Jesus Christ our Lord and give me the
grace to get the victory if I so choose.

Randy



Randy C. Ellis
214-549-3560 (mobile)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Considering that the ACLU is representing NAMBLA in a Massachusetts
case, it may eventually happen.  But, alas, all is falling into place
as Bible prophecy said it would, paving the way for the Lord's return
to take His bride home.

But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia?  Do we do the
modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to death
or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery
and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?
There really is no difference between homosexuality and pedophilia
other than the object of attraction which, in the latter case, is
toward children.

Then again, since his attraction is toward teen boys, the issue here
may not be one of pedophilia but, rather, one of pederasty.

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way <inotheway@y...>
wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ
when he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me.
He said that it would be better to die a violent death than that you
should hurt one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts
on child molesters is a period of confinement plus financial
penalties then a period of partial freedom and ridicule with a lack
of privacy. Gods law merely required immediate death penalty by
societal stoning. I met a child molester some 18 years ago. I was so
repulsed by him that I couldn't even peaceably talk to him.Before
Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts in our society years ago
most straight people were repulsed at the mere thought of homosexual
perversion. I hope society never excepts child molesters as an
acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Tim Way
>
> Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@y...> wrote:
> Hey slink!
> thanks for your honesty and vulnerability! Praise the Lord for the
power that he has already given you over the last year. It is
frightening to be so vulnerable to failure. Pedophilia is so
stigmatized! I hate the way our society is dealing with it, as if it
is an unpardonable sin. People need help in order for it to be
prevented. For now, honesty and vulnerability is your best antidote.
Continue to share your feelings in a safe and caring environment. I
don't struggle with pedophilia, but when I was a teen I had numerous
encounters with men. You and I can be in dialog about what that was
like. I will remember you in prayer. May the Lord grant you power and
freedom as you continue to rely upon Him!
>
> Michael
>
> theslink@J... wrote:
>
> I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had
homosexual encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age
boys. While I have never offended with under age kids I have had
problems with child pornography in the past. Thankfully the Lord has
kept me from all forms of pornography for about a year. This is a big
turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at porn. I
feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering
for homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of
the members of my group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title
about pedophilia?
>
> Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that
the key to recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as
easy as making friends? There has to be something more to this. I was
seriously abused as a child physically and emotionally (but not
sexually) by my father and grandmother. While I have forgiven them I
still think my problems are rooted in my childhood and my rejection
by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem to focus more on
changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional problems.
Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I
have gotten out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have
problems with lust and masturbation anywhere from once to twice a
week to once every two weeks. I really want to heal and be normal.
Can anybody offer any words of advice??
>
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--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Chancellor Carlyle
Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
> The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
> Christ.  The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is
conforming
> to the image of Christ.  The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
> holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.
>

Well said, buddy - except your previous post and even this one imply
that we have to make ourselves holy.  Holiness is a gift of God.

Well: we seem to have all shades of opinion here from buddy's scare
tactics on loosing your salvation, to Tim's death penalty, to Inge's
inner child (where is that in scripture?).

My bible says that we love God because He first loved us.  Jesus
said; "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."  Those
statements, to me, sum all this up.  We respond in love to a love
that is so great that the God, who made heaven and earth, so loved us
that He sent His only begotten Son to die in place for my sin.
Wow: ....  He has taken the punishment for it all!  IT ALL!! My sin,
past, present and future.  What grace is that?  How can I respond?

Well, I sure can't earn my holiness, and continue to try to impress
God with how good I am and how well I am overcoming sin.  How
ridiculous.  A waste of time and energy - it's impossible.

Neither is He going to stone me or dish out the death penalty - He's
already done that and someone else paid the price.

As for the child within me?? Sorry Inge, what Bible are you reading
there?  When I was born again, I became a new creation.  I may still
be battling with my flesh, but my bible says to reckon that dead.
Just what point is there in trying to heal a dead body.  The answer
to my problems is not in the past of my "old man" - but in the past
of my "new man" - the one that was crucified and now lives His
resurrection life in me.

No! I believe the answer is in:

Romans 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of
God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable
unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

and

Hebrews: 12:1 ......let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which
doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that
is set before us,
2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for
the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the
shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners
against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4  Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

but these things are a response of love to love.  It is not an
attempt to win God's approval.  We have that already for:

Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we
were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be
saved from wrath through him.
10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the
death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by
his life.

As His beloved children, we can no longer be His enemies.  He may
chasten us, but that is because He loves us.

To the brother that needs the encouragement; know this.....

If you are in Christ, you ARE His beloved son. As you desire to love
Him more, your desire to sin will die.  This is a process that takes
time.  It is process that is often painful to our flesh, but God, (2
Peter 1:3) according as his divine power hath given unto us all
things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of
him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

You therefore lack nothing, but need to discover just exactly what
you already have to enable you to overcome.  This life is a journey
of discovery into the wonders of what Gos has given us.  May your
journey be a great one.


Phil

Now, why do you PRESUME that I'm saying anything about us earning our
holiness?  Further, why do you insist on referring to my making
reference to a passage in Hebrews as "scare tactics"?

My posts do not in any way imply that WE make ourselves holy.
HOWEVER, neither do we sit on our blessed assurance and do nothing
(as your post implies).  Shall we continue in sin that grace may
abound (as your post implies)?  God forbid!

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, philtft <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Chancellor Carlyle
> Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
> > The key to healing the attraction is conforming to the image of
> > Christ.  The key to getting victory over pedophilic sin is
> conforming
> > to the image of Christ.  The key is not "recovery" but, rather,
> > holiness -- without which no one will see the Lord.
> >
>
> Well said, buddy - except your previous post and even this one
imply
> that we have to make ourselves holy.  Holiness is a gift of God.
>
> Well: we seem to have all shades of opinion here from buddy's scare
> tactics on loosing your salvation, to Tim's death penalty, to
Inge's
> inner child (where is that in scripture?).
>
> My bible says that we love God because He first loved us.  Jesus
> said; "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."  Those
> statements, to me, sum all this up.  We respond in love to a love
> that is so great that the God, who made heaven and earth, so loved
us
> that He sent His only begotten Son to die in place for my sin.
> Wow: ....  He has taken the punishment for it all!  IT ALL!! My
sin,
> past, present and future.  What grace is that?  How can I respond?
>
> Well, I sure can't earn my holiness, and continue to try to impress
> God with how good I am and how well I am overcoming sin.  How
> ridiculous.  A waste of time and energy - it's impossible.
>
> Neither is He going to stone me or dish out the death penalty -
He's
> already done that and someone else paid the price.
>
> As for the child within me?? Sorry Inge, what Bible are you reading
> there?  When I was born again, I became a new creation.  I may
still
> be battling with my flesh, but my bible says to reckon that dead.
> Just what point is there in trying to heal a dead body.  The answer
> to my problems is not in the past of my "old man" - but in the past
> of my "new man" - the one that was crucified and now lives His
> resurrection life in me.
>
> No! I believe the answer is in:
>
> Romans 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of
> God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy,
acceptable
> unto God, which is your reasonable service.
> 2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
> renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
> acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
>
> and
>
> Hebrews: 12:1 ......let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
which
> doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that
> is set before us,
> 2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for
> the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the
> shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
> 3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners
> against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
> 4  Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
>
> but these things are a response of love to love.  It is not an
> attempt to win God's approval.  We have that already for:
>
> Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while
we
> were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
> 9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be
> saved from wrath through him.
> 10  For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the
> death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by
> his life.
>
> As His beloved children, we can no longer be His enemies.  He may
> chasten us, but that is because He loves us.
>
> To the brother that needs the encouragement; know this.....
>
> If you are in Christ, you ARE His beloved son. As you desire to
love
> Him more, your desire to sin will die.  This is a process that
takes
> time.  It is process that is often painful to our flesh, but God,
(2
> Peter 1:3) according as his divine power hath given unto us all
> things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge
of
> him that hath called us to glory and virtue.
>
> You therefore lack nothing, but need to discover just exactly what
> you already have to enable you to overcome.  This life is a journey
> of discovery into the wonders of what Gos has given us.  May your
> journey be a great one.
>
>
> Phil

Pure Life Ministries just happens to be dealing with the topic of
pedophilia in its current issue.

http://www.purelifeministries.org/unchained/guestarticles/119--
Pedophilia%20Chic.htm

At 08:21 PM 10/1/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
>But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia?  Do we do the
>modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to death
>or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery
>and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?

In this case, however, we are not dealing with a pedophile on this board.
Someone who has a strong *temptation/attraction* in that direction has just
opened his heart to us.

Just as the Bible does not condemn anyone for being *attracted* to one's
own gender (any more than the rest of us sinners are condemned), so surely
we have no right to judge anyone else who has an inappropriate sexual
attraction.  The bible clearly condemns sexual *activity* outside of
marriage.  By the grace of God we all deal with various inappropriate
attractions.  And our new member has shared that, by the grace of God, he
has *not* given in to his attraction.

How many others on this board can say they have not given in to their
attraction?

The more we love Christ -- and that will happen naturally as we spend more
time with Him -- the less attractive sin will appear to us.  And the more
compassionate we will be with those whose sins differ from ours. A
relationship with Him will also fill some of that love hunger that drives
individuals to various forms of false intimacy.

Blessings,
Inge Anderson



           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************

Dear friends,

I am urgently requesting your prayers.  I have noticed red bands around my gums.

I am going to get tested tomorrow.  I have prayed and praised God for negative
results.

Please pray for me.

Sincerely,
Jermyn M. Davidson

David <aurelius_dg@...> wrote:


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,

I am urgently requesting your prayers.  I have noticed red bands around my gums.

I am going to get tested tomorrow.  I have prayed and praised God for negative
results.

Please pray with and for me.

Sincerely,
Jermyn M. Davidson







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi JD. I sensed I HAD to respond to your email! Do not worry. DO NOT WORRY. We
are praying for you. I will be praying for you around the clock. Remember that
red gums could mean different things...periodontal disease, gingivitis, a common
viral infection, or even allergies! Try not to worry. Satan will cast a spirit
of worry and doom over you at every opportunity, so you remember where those
thoughts are coming from and just trust God has you in His hands and Satan no
longer has power over you. If you have accepted Jesus you are eternally secure!
If you feel overwhelmed/consumed with these thoughts of worry, proclaim the
Name! You tell Satan to flee...you rebuke him in the name of Jesus! Sometimes
rebuking him outloud is the only way to remove his power over your mind. The
Lord will give you a peace that surpasses all understanding.

Satan puts his demons on us night and day...all of the anxiety, worry, tension,
anger, etc. starts in the mind...sometimes even in first person (I am this, I am
that, or this is MY punishment) It is Satan at his best...triggering your fears
and invading your mind. I don't know what is going through your mind but I can
tell you are very concerned. I do not know what the future holds for you but I
know God is in your future so you trust Him and when Satan knocks on the
threshold of your mind, don't let him in! Send him immediately away. Satan is
crafty and recognizing his work is sometimes difficult. So, just know that no
matter what happens, you are hidden in Christ Jesus. Praying, praying, and
praying some more!

BTW, I'm not a medical professional but I suggest you stay away from mouthwash
for a while if you can...it can aggravate the condition.

In prayer with you,

Christa

J D <zachaeus2003@...> wrote:
Dear friends,

I am urgently requesting your prayers.  I have noticed red bands around my gums.

I am going to get tested tomorrow.  I have prayed and praised God for negative
results.

Please pray for me.

Sincerely,
Jermyn M. Davidson

David <aurelius_dg@...> wrote:


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Dear friends,

I have noticed that my gums have a red band near one tooth and I am very
concerned.  I am going for a test tomorrow and sincerely request your prayers. 
Pray that every test I take comes back with a "negative" response.

Sincerely,
Jermyn



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Hey guys. I'm wondering if Cubbie, a.ka. Lioncub2b4ever is still around? I was
communicating with her for a while and have not heard back from her for some
time. I am somewhat concerned for her well-being.

Cubbie, if you are out there...please let me know. I have been worried about you
and have not only tried to call you but email you as well.

Let's be in prayer for her guys. She was having a very hard time the last time
we spoke, and it has been a burden on my heart! I will be travelling this month
but will check my email periodically so if anyone gets an update, please email
me.

I also wanted to ask for continued prayer for my friend, Sean. I have not had
the opportunity to talk to him but will be doing so as soon as an opportunity
arises. We saw each other recently and I did as some of you (Roger, Tim, and
many others) suggested...loved him no matter what. He seemed somewhat unhappy
but still searching for his soul-mate. I feel the Lord is preparing a way for my
husband and I to reach out to him; I think perhaps my husband may play a larger
role than myself. Considering neither of us has struggled with homosexuality,
this may pose a challenge; so, also pray Sean will come in contact with an
ex-gay ministry in his geographical area that can gently present the idea that
Sean can seek help if he needs help. Nonetheless, please lift him in prayer.

In Christ,

Christa




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Hi Jermyn,

What does a red band mean ? Tim Way

J D <zachaeus2003@...> wrote:
Dear friends,

I have noticed that my gums have a red band near one tooth and I am very
concerned.  I am going for a test tomorrow and sincerely request your prayers. 
Pray that every test I take comes back with a "negative" response.

Sincerely,
Jermyn



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Hi Mike and Inge,

I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the thoughts
that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with hearing about child
molesters in my area without it making me sick to my stomach. Even the criminal
justice system contains inmates who take care of this injustice by purging these
demented predators  from the prisons. This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but
vomit the very knowledge of it from my mind. As far as this man who is
struggling with it, I'm not condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject
matter in my mind as I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and
Inge. That sin is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who
entertain it. It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest
of us who are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity
here I beg you.  May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
aside to the vermin.Tim Way

Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
Thanks Inge!
I totally agree!
This is not a public trial, but a support group!
Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is seeking help, only to be
slammed by Tim! What a shame!
Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we should do everything in our
power to prevent perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our love and
encouragement our brother will be led away from the need and desire to be with
teen boys.

Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest he fall...."

Mike
Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
Tim,

Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came at a particularly
inappropriate juncture.

A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you answer with *this*!!

How would you feel if you shared some of your struggles on this board, and,
instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to tell you that I had met a
homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!! Furthermore, what if I  pointed
out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex was stoning and
lamenting that society no longer did this.

How would that help *you*?

That's exactly what you just did to your brother on this list who made
himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of being attracted to
young people.  Before posting on a board like this, where vulnerable people
come for Christian support, it is good to pray the prayer of David in Psalm
141.3:
"Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips." This is
*not* a place to "let it all hang out" without considering how it will
affect a fellow struggler.

Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael for your contribution.

Blessings,
Inge Anderson

At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
>Hi Guys,
>
>One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition from Jesus Christ when
>he warns about hurting one of these little ones who trust in me. He said
>that it would be better to die a violent death than that you should hurt
>one of these little one's. The penalty our society puts on child molesters
>is a period of confinement plus financial penalties then a period of
>partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of privacy. Gods law merely
>required immediate death penalty by societal stoning. I met a child
>molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by him that I couldn't even
>peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as anything but perverts
>in our society years ago most straight people were repulsed at the mere
>thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society never excepts child
>molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Tim Way

           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************


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Tim,

I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in reference
to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his lonely
struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ. There
was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's sharing.
The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his brother
a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!

Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum instead
of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly* the same
as many straight people who react to the very thought of "homosexuality"
with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is living a
godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you* are the
"vermin"!)

There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in your mind
is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.

A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys -- something
that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he HAS NOT
given in to the temptation.

Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe you're only
attracted to men older than yourself?)

Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations different
from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of marriage
-- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're *all* in
the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven EXCEPT
for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from what
directions our temptations come.

This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen homosexually
oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a struggle with
attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek understanding
and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a slightly
different struggle.

You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than your
sin.  In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these little
ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ, we are
"born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the Lord has
the greatest solicitude.

You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a different
struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of Jesus
who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.

When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we shall
be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME, that we
will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love -- like
one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where there is
an abundant source of food.

Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt themselves
holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their robes of
'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God be
merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without His
justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but filthy rags
in His eyes.

May He be merciful to you and me!

In His grace,
Inge

PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's saved
mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance.  He suffers with
the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.


At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
>Hi Mike and Inge,
>
>I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and the
>thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal with
>hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick to my
>stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who take care
>of this injustice by purging these demented predators  from the prisons.
>This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very knowledge of it
>from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm not
>condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my mind as
>I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge. That sin
>is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain it.
>It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest of us who
>are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of depravity here
>I beg you.  May you come to your senses before this ministry is turned
>aside to the vermin.Tim Way

           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************

I would contact Richard Cohen at IHF90@...  He addresses that issue in his
book, "Coming Out Straight."  He does private telephone conferencing and gives
seminars. I remember reading the page in his book about why guys with SSA are
attracted to males in different age groups.  My son was never sexually abused,
thank God, but I remember my husband and I being very concerned because he and
this kid in Denmark (who I wrote my book with and Richard Cohen wrote my
foreword-see links at this groups site) were looking at pictures of young boys
(age 12-14) a lot and it really disturbed us. I became afraid to allow my son
around his nephews (7 and 9 at the time).  My husband and I talked to our son
about this and how we were worried that homosexuality could lead to pedophilia.
We knew very little about anything at the time. I seem to remember that Richard
said something about the brokeness having happened in childhood if you are
attracted to young boys.  I also see an obsession with many gay men, including
my son, of a fear of loosing their youth. Many times my son would say, "I wish I
could be little again when life was simpler and innocent. I think it was around
11, 12, and 13 when he did not fit in with his peers that he really changed in
his personality and was no longer happy or confident in himself. Then it got
worse in high school.  I think we are all trying to heal some kind of brokeness
in our childhoods all the time.

May God bless you in your endeavors. Bridget
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: theslink@...
   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 10:39 PM
   Subject: [ExGDBd] Pedophilia and some other questions



   I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual
encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never
offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the
past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a
year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my
group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

   Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to
recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making
friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a
child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and
grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in
my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem
to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional
problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and
masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I
really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim,

Hey! I understand your being repulsed, but I feel that
you are totally coming at this from the wrong vantage
point. This brother is sharing because he wants help,
prayer, and support so that he can overcome these
things, and you want to turn him away? How can you do
that? Our goal is to be like Christ and if Christ were
walking this earth right now I guarantee that he would
sit and eat with this man, and pray with him, and
deliver him from this. This man is asking for our help
and the fact that you are so "disgusted" you can't
handle it is sad. Our sin of homosexuality is just as
repulsing to many people. You can't understand the sin
fully unless you've experienced it. I pray that you
rethink your thoughts, and start thinking about how we
can help this brother overcome satan. Just think about
it. GOd bless.

aNDY
--- Tim Way <inotheway@...> wrote:
> Hi Mike and Inge,
>
> I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my
> convictions, and the thoughts that I just cant even
> bear in my mind. I cant even deal with hearing about
> child molesters in my area without it making me sick
> to my stomach. Even the criminal justice system
> contains inmates who take care of this injustice by
> purging these demented predators  from the prisons.
> This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the
> very knowledge of it from my mind. As far as this
> man who is struggling with it, I'm not condemning
> him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in
> my mind as I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like
> it or not Mike and Inge. That sin is the very thing
> that invokes the wrath of God upon all who entertain
> it. It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the
> sanctity of the rest of us who are not that far
> gone, please don't invite that element of depravity
> here I beg you.  May you come to your senses before
> this ministry is turned aside to the vermin.Tim Way
>
> Michael Crumpler <good7boy2002@...> wrote:
> Thanks Inge!
> I totally agree!
> This is not a public trial, but a support group!
> Our Brother has chosen to share his struggle and is
> seeking help, only to be slammed by Tim! What a
> shame!
> Child molestation is an awful act! That's why we
> should do everything in our power to prevent
> perpertrators from doing it. I pray that through our
> love and encouragement our brother will be led away
> from the need and desire to be with teen boys.
>
> Tim......"let he who thinks he stand take heed lest
> he fall...."
>
> Mike
> Inge Anderson <inge@...> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Your sharing your reaction to pedophilia below came
> at a particularly
> inappropriate juncture.
>
> A brother in Christ shared his struggles, and you
> answer with *this*!!
>
> How would you feel if you shared some of your
> struggles on this board, and,
> instead of replying to your concerns, I wrote to
> tell you that I had met a
> homosexual and was *so* repulsed by him!!
> Furthermore, what if I  pointed
> out that the biblical punishment for same-gender sex
> was stoning and
> lamenting that society no longer did this.
>
> How would that help *you*?
>
> That's exactly what you just did to your brother on
> this list who made
> himself vulnerable by writing about his struggle of
> being attracted to
> young people.  Before posting on a board like this,
> where vulnerable people
> come for Christian support, it is good to pray the
> prayer of David in Psalm
> 141.3:
> "Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door
> of my lips." This is
> *not* a place to "let it all hang out" without
> considering how it will
> affect a fellow struggler.
>
> Michael's note was "right on"! Thank you, Michael
> for your contribution.
>
> Blessings,
> Inge Anderson
>
> At 10:52 AM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
> >Hi Guys,
> >
> >One thing that comes to my mind is the admonition
> from Jesus Christ when
> >he warns about hurting one of these little ones who
> trust in me. He said
> >that it would be better to die a violent death than
> that you should hurt
> >one of these little one's. The penalty our society
> puts on child molesters
> >is a period of confinement plus financial penalties
> then a period of
> >partial freedom and ridicule with a lack of
> privacy. Gods law merely
> >required immediate death penalty by societal
> stoning. I met a child
> >molester some 18 years ago. I was so repulsed by
> him that I couldn't even
> >peaceably talk to him.Before Gays were portrayed as
> anything but perverts
> >in our society years ago most straight people were
> repulsed at the mere
> >thought of homosexual perversion. I hope society
> never excepts child
> >molesters as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.
> Tim Way
>
>           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
>
*********************************************************
>     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site
> for
> Christians with same-gender attractions and their
> friends.
>
*********************************************************
>          A bruised reed shall he not break....
>                      Isaiah 42:3
>
*********************************************************
>
>
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The red band I see around my gums could be just regular gingivitis or it could
be a rare form of gingivitis -- only found in people with immune system
disorders.

As of February I know I was HIVneg.  I have not been with a whole lot of
partners since then -- atleast not as many as I used to do.

I don't "hook up" any more and I am experiencing victory finally in overcoming
SSA. Decreased SSA and increased desire for the opposite sex.  And a deeper
drive to not fall back into the same cycle.  I was really seeming to make some
gains spiritually in my life.

But I have been praying that I am not HIV poz -- since I have noticed the red
bands on my gums.

That is why I have requested prayer.  I really have made up my mind to not go
back to that lifestyle.

Now I am praying that I am still and for the rest of my life HIVneg.

Your prayers are greatly needed and appreciated.

Sincerely,
Jermyn

Tim Way <inotheway@...> wrote:
Hi Jermyn,

What does a red band mean ? Tim Way

J D <zachaeus2003@...> wrote:
Dear friends,

I have noticed that my gums have a red band near one tooth and I am very
concerned.  I am going for a test tomorrow and sincerely request your prayers. 
Pray that every test I take comes back with a "negative" response.

Sincerely,
Jermyn



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Dear Jeremyn,

My prayers are with you that the Lord may keep you close to Him.

At 08:10 AM 10/2/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I don't "hook up" any more and I am experiencing victory finally in
>overcoming SSA.

Praise God for that! I am happy for you.

>  Decreased SSA and increased desire for the opposite sex.

That is interesting. However, if you have the same sort of desire for the
opposite sex as you experienced for the same sex, that is not progress.
Could  you please explain what you mean?

>  And a deeper drive to not fall back into the same cycle.  I was really
> seeming to make some gains spiritually in my life.

I really recommend putting Jesus at the top of your priority list. It will
help you more to put effort into developing a relationship with Him than to
put effort into "not falling back into the same cycle." The positive will
crowd out the negative.

The Bible confirms this. Jesus told a parable about the man who had a devil
cast out of him. Because the man didn't fill his heart with God, the devil
came back & brought others with him so the last state of the man was worse
than the first.

May you daily spend time getting better acquainted with the Lord Jesus.
Then He will be your help and your strength.

In His love,
Inge



           Inge Anderson   <inge@...>
*********************************************************
     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
*********************************************************
          A bruised reed shall he not break....
                      Isaiah 42:3
*********************************************************

Jermyn, even if you are poz, I would be surprised if
your immune system could have become sufficiently
comprised in so short a period of time since you said
you were negative in February.  That's why I am
skeptical.  And as you know, symptoms are not
meaningful.  All that said, it is important to get
checked for peace of mind.  It is no fun. Every sore
throat, any rash, every ache, scares you.  And if you
get a real case of the flu?  You're terrified, because
you figure you are seroconverting.  It's a difficult
way to live.  Just the same, I suggest you get an
appointment with a dentist, too.  I think that's what
you really need. :-)
Richard


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I was referring to the attraction when I said, "the person who HAS
pedophilia."  My question was pretty simple, or at least I thought it
was: Do we do as Tim suggested and do the modern American equivalent
of stoning the person to death or do we treat him the way Jesus
treated the woman caught in adultery.

If you think that it's perfectly acceptable and normal to have either
same-sex attraction or an attraction to children (or, in the case of
the person who posted, a pederastic attraction), then I'd like you to
show me how such attractions are consistent with God's created design
as found in Genesis.  I didn't say anything about the attractions
being sin and I really wish you folks would actually READ my posts
instead of reading into them.

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
<inge@g...> wrote:
> At 08:21 PM 10/1/2003 +0000, Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II wrote:
> >But what do we do for the person who has pedophilia?  Do we do the
> >modern American equivalent of taking him out and stoning him to
death
> >or do we treat him the way Jesus treated the woman caught in
adultery
> >and say to him, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"?
>
> In this case, however, we are not dealing with a pedophile on this
board.
> Someone who has a strong *temptation/attraction* in that direction
has just
> opened his heart to us.
>
> Just as the Bible does not condemn anyone for being *attracted* to
one's
> own gender (any more than the rest of us sinners are condemned), so
surely
> we have no right to judge anyone else who has an inappropriate
sexual
> attraction.  The bible clearly condemns sexual *activity* outside
of
> marriage.  By the grace of God we all deal with various
inappropriate
> attractions.  And our new member has shared that, by the grace of
God, he
> has *not* given in to his attraction.
>
> How many others on this board can say they have not given in to
their
> attraction?
>
> The more we love Christ -- and that will happen naturally as we
spend more
> time with Him -- the less attractive sin will appear to us.  And
the more
> compassionate we will be with those whose sins differ from ours. A
> relationship with Him will also fill some of that love hunger that
drives
> individuals to various forms of false intimacy.
>
> Blessings,
> Inge Anderson
>
>
>
>           Inge Anderson   <inge@g...>
> *********************************************************
>     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
> Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
> *********************************************************
>          A bruised reed shall he not break....
>                      Isaiah 42:3
> *********************************************************

How much does freedom cost?

Remember the story of the rich man and how he went away sad when Jesus told him
to sell everything and follow Him? (Matt.19:16-24) Personally, I don't think
Jesus was telling him to give up everything he had, but everything he was.
Unfortunately, this is not only how most of us view ourselves, but each other as
well. Because we seem to determine our worth as human beings by what we own,
more so than who we are as a son or daughter of God. Too many people have gotten
things twisted around by thinking they are, or can be worth more to God by what
they have or are able to give-not to mention how much some determine their
"blessings" by what they are able to acquire or pay for themselves. This is how
too many of us determine our lives in God, more so than we should. But the works
of God don't have to necessarily revolve around money or possessions. Sure, we
have to live our daily lives and it takes money and possessions to do so. But
what we are able to buy or do for ourselves or for
  another financially, does not determine who we are or how righteous we are in
God's eyes-just how cool we are in the world's eyes. The rich man Jesus spoke to
was probably in the same frame of mind, and I’d almost bet that’s why he went
away sad. Because he probably thought selling and giving away his possessions to
the poor, meant giving away everything he was and everything stood for in the
community, with his friends etc. Because usually what people have, goes with how
they live. And some may need to make some major changes simply because what they
own, represents them, says who they are, and really owns them. But for most, I
don't really think it's a matter of changing all possessions or financial worth,
but changing priorities, attitude and lifestyle. How much does freedom cost? It
costs us everything, but most need to pay for it with who they are, not just
what they have. And once we know who we really are, then we'll know what we
truly have. And by the way, the points written
  below can apply to any type of sin or bondage-no matter what it is.

Salvation:

The first thing you need to do (if you haven’t already) is asking the Lord Jesus
Christ to come into your heart and save you. If you have never asked Jesus to
come into your heart, please read Do you know Jesus?, then come back to this
page to see the rest of God’s plan for you.

Clean House:

The next thing you need to do is get rid of everything and anything you own that
says you live and serve a certain lifestyle according to your bondage. This can
mean books, posters, photos, videos, music, clothes, and yes even those web
sites and groups you may often visit. When God saves you and cleans you up and
forgives you of your sins, He expects you to change the environment around
yourself. I mean, after all, you’ve just invited Jesus Christ into your home who
can see every hidden nook and cranny of it-so what do you think you should leave
lying around on the coffee table, beneath a pile of clothes in your closet, or
under your mattress where you think it’s hidden?

"And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who
finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find
it." Matthew 10:38-39

Walk Away:

I think the toughest part of serving God, is walking away from serving the flesh
lifestyle. But if you truly let Him, God will help you, but you can’t expect Him
or anyone else to do it all for you. This means you have to give up your old
hang-outs and probably all of your friends that can quickly pull you right back
down into the pit with them. But know this; you are a child of God and are no
longer obligated to perform in the flesh the habits of your old bondage. Mourn
your loss, attend the funeral of your past, but then go on and get over it. Just
remember, satan, your past habits and friends will also be mourning the loss of
you, and will do everything they can to revive you and bring you back to "life"
within their perception of it. Prayer and Bible reading is a key to freedom and
DO NOT give in by feeling sorry for "killing" your bondage. Bury it and be done
with it.

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that
he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier". 2nd Timothy 2:4

"Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with
those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart". 2nd Timothy 2:22

Jesus, to one of His disciples who asked to bury his father before following
Him: "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead" Matthew 8:22

Search your heart

One of the toughest, yet most important things you can do is get down in the
dirt and get real with yourself. Because being sexually broken can cause so many
different emotions to run blatantly rampant, it can leave behind a lot of
problems. Jealousy, bitterness, hate for yourself and others, a competitive
spirit, problems with your self-image, an all around rotten attitude, etc. So
what you need to do is let the Spirit of God search your heart and let Him point
out the things about yourself and attitude to you that needs to be changed. And
He will help you work on them if you let Him

I remember going to an ex-gay conference one time hosted by a certain ex-gay
ministry, and I learned some pretty good stuff there. But when the speakers were
finished and the meeting was over, I wanted to meet some of the people that
spoke and was part of the ministry. But when I tried, a couple of them seemed to
still have their old stuck-up "gay attitudes" and seemed to act suspicious
towards just about everyone they didn’t know. One of them wouldn’t even talk to
me as if he were too good. That was disappointing, because it reminded me too
much of years past when trying to simply speak to a stranger in a gay bar.

Things like this are what we really need to be careful about. Because we are
supposed to be men and women of God, not the people in the local hang out with
rotten attitudes because they hate themselves and everyone else that’s just like
they are. So let God check your heart for you, point out what needs to be
changed, and let Him help you work on it.

"...But exhort one another daily, while it is called ‘Today’, lest any of you be
hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Hebrews 3:13

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax
collectors do the same? And if you greet you brethren only, what do you do more
than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be
perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect".

Matthew 5:46-48

Go To Church And Get Involved:

Find a good Spirit filled church and get involved with meetings and Sunday
school etc. I realize it may be difficult to share with anyone your past at
first. But going to church doesn’t necessarily mean you have to blurt out to
everyone where you’re coming from. Feel the church out and get to know some
people there and what they believe, and don’t be afraid to ask for a copy of
their doctrinal beliefs and what sort of outreach ministries they have. Pray
about sharing your past only with your pastor at first, get to know him a little
bit and ask questions about his thoughts concerning pornography, sexual
addictions and the like. But with a word of warning here, be careful, because
church rejection does happen to those seeking freedom from homosexuality and
sexual addictions, because some people fear things like this because they have
never been taught right about them. And there are still a lot of "old school"
churches out there. But depending on where you live, there are also a lot
  of helping churches out there that are eager to do whatever they can for you.
But if you do face a rejection situation, do not give up or blame God for
peoples mistakes or ignorance. Keep praying and keep going until you find a
church with open minds and hearts to you. And remember, you’re not doing this to
satisfy others or appease what they think of you; you’re doing it for God, His
use for you, for yourself and for your eternity.

"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you
were of the world, the world would love it’s own. Yet because you are not of the
world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you". John
15:18-19

Where did all this come from to begin with?

Now, I realize I’ll probably get some grief for saying this, but sin and bondage
are passed down from generation to generation-just like some diseases. Yes, I’m
calling it a curse. I’ve read up on all the Biblical excuses as to why it’s okay
to live a homosexual lifestyle and be a "Christian" at the same time. And quite
frankly, it gets pretty boring reading the same twisted scripture references and
stuff in every book and web site that’s dedicated to it. But it doesn’t take a
genius to figure it out if you had a bad relationship with your mother or
father, or they didn’t quite give you the love, bonding and attention you should
have gotten as a child, so you wouldn’t have to go looking for it out of context
as an adult. What does that have to do with curses? They were probably treated
somewhat the same way by their parent(s) and them theirs, and back and back and
back, all the way to Moses-where someone could have done the first
experimentation when Moses was up on the mountain
  while all the people went crazy with lust and stuff. But I’m pretty sure that
sin and bondage is even older than that.

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the
fathers upon the children to the third and forth generations of those who hate
Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My
commandments". Exodus 19:5

Facing Temptations:

No matter what anyone may tell you, you will indeed face temptations, thoughts
and memories of your past. Because we are still human and live in mortal bodies,
we have to learn to re-train our minds to turn from things of the past and
concentrate on Jesus Christ, what He has done for us, and how He can work
through us. And there will be things about your past that you will actually miss
being a part of. You will miss your friends, hang outs and remember being around
people that could really understand who you are and how you feel. It’s not a sin
to be an emotional person of flesh and blood with memories, feelings and
desires-acting out is the sin. But you have to know that dwelling in the Spirit
of God can overcome these things of the flesh. And it can be real easy to allow
yourself an outlet or a "tid-bit" from your past when you are down, lonely,
having a pity-party, or feeling a little depressed. This is usually a starting
point for failure. When temptation comes around; pray,
  read your Bible, call someone, go do something, go to a church function, watch
a good Christian movie, go to your prayer closet and get on your face before
God, call an elderly member of your church and ask them if they need anything,
or go somewhere in a public place where you won’t be alone-like a department
store or restaurant. And do something to occupy your free time-like opening a
website, writing a book, or join some online Christian groups. Do anything that
will cause a distraction to place your attention somewhere else and doing
something for God-whatever it takes. Too much idle and alone time makes the mind
wander.

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is
faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but
with the temptation will also make a way of escape, that you may be able to bear
it". 1st Corinthians 10:13

Failure And Self Condemnation:

Most of the time when someone fails, they spend the next three or four days
kicking themselves while repeating their "coulda, shoulda and woulda’s" over and
over in their minds until they’re sick of their own voices. Okay, so you dug up
the grave of your past and messed around with the dead carcass for awhile, now
cover the thing back up, take a nice long "repentant shower" and be on your way.
In short, ask God to forgive you and get over it. Did you know that when you put
yourself down and condemn yourself, you are taking the cross of Christ in vain?
Do you actually think you could possibly do anything that would shock God, or
cause Him to just snub you out and turn His head from you? I really don’t think
so, because there were plenty of other sinners in the world before you came
along. So if God was going to hate or destroy you, He probably would have
started with your ancestors. Don’t ever, ever forget that we are not under the
law anymore, but under grace. However, this is not an
  excuse to get sloppy about sin in your life, remember what I wrote above in
"Facing Temptations".

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do
not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."

Romans 8:1

Why Do I still Feel Gay, Sexually Addicted, Etc?

Because you’re still an emotional, feeling and desiring human being-not to
mention the fact that you’re not dead yet. Human emotions, wants, needs and
desires are not a sin. Everyone wants to be loved and experience the human
touch, and going through a transformation from worldly to Godly can get pretty
lonely sometimes. But here’s the kicker; according to Christ, you’re a new
creation in Him, and you know it in your heart. The only real problem is, your
brain just doesn’t know it. Now, I’m not a psychologist, but this is the way I
figure it. Once a person reaches a certain age, they’ve pretty much got
themselves all "figured out". In other words, they know who they are, what they
want, their needs, desires, etc. But all of that has been learned and taught to
the carnal (human) mind, and it has developed a "mind set" of who they are as a
person of flesh and blood. Now here comes God who saves them and sets them free
from the flesh and this world. That freaks the mind out because
  humanistic-carnal-minded-brain "logic" does not know or understand the concept
of God (Romans 8:7). It’s like the mountain moving thing where Jesus says faith
can move mountains (Matt.17:20). But "brain logic" says, get over that!

So in short, it doesn’t matter what or who you feel like you are, it’s what and
who Jesus Christ says you are! Because in reality, it has nothing to do with
you, simply because you did not save yourself, fill yourself with joy, clean
yourself up and forgive yourself of your sins-let alone die on the cross for
yourself. It’s not what you did or can do, it’s what Jesus did and can do. So
basically, your carnal and unredeemable mind is lying to you because you’re
saved, but your brain isn’t. Does that freak you out?

"For to be carnally (worldly) minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is
life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity (enemy) against God; for it is
not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the
flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if
indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit
of Christ, He is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of
sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Romans 8:6-10
(parentheses’ mine)

Does It Ever Really Just "Go Away?"

"God, just heal me and take this away!" I used to ask God that at least three or
four times a day, sometimes more. But I’ve got another secret for you...... God
won’t take it completely away. Does that offend you or anger you? Just simmer
down and bear with me for a minute and hear me out. First off, if God were to
remove the desire for any kind of sin in your life, He would have to rid you of
your human emotions and desires and turn you into some sort of zombie.

Okay, so all you want is for God to make you "straight", right? He would still
have to remove some human emotions, not to mention your right (that He gave you
in the first place) to live any kind of lifestyle you choose. That would make
Him a dictator, go against His own words, make the death of Christ in vain, and
so on and so on. I know, "But I want Him to take it away!" right? It just
doesn’t work that way. If He took away your rights, He’d have to take away
everyone’s.

Because there is only one thing that God cannot do, and that is go against His
own words. When He placed the curse on Adam and Eve so long ago, His words are
so powerful, real, alive, existing and unremovable-that He could not change or
recant them. Simply because when God says or creates something, it’s there
forever-in one form or another. But He made a provision and an escape from the
curse, called Jesus Christ. God will provide you with the abilities to walk away
from the past and take control of your life and lifestyle by the Holy Spirit-but
He will not remove your ability to be a decision making human being with
feelings and emotions. You just have to be real enough about it to seek the
power and abilities of the Holy Spirit and be determined to have them, no matter
what.

"The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force".
Matthew 11:12

Walking In The Spirit:

There is so much to be said about walking in the Spirit, that I could easily
write a book on it. Basically, walking in the Spirit is described by Paul in
Romans chapter eight. Walking in the Spirit is sort of like I described in
"Search Your Heart", but you have to hear Him in all things.

It’s sort of like listening to you conscience, but more on the spiritual side of
it. And when you’re about to do something you know you really shouldn’t, you’ll
know it from hearing the Spirit. But the real question that remains, is will you
pay attention to Him?

Bible reading is important to hear the Spirit, because He will speak to you
though God’s word. So many people try to make the Bible an exact science, but it
just isn’t, and can’t be because the Spirit will speak to different people in
different ways through the Bible, according to what God is trying to teach them
concerning their own lives and situations. You just have to listen to what God
is telling you when you ask Him any certain question about your life, because
it’s all pretty much covered in the Bible. Prayer is an important key as well.
Ask God to let His Spirit teach you and help you through anything that arises in
your life. Ask God for scripture to fit whatever it is you’re going through, and
if you pay attention, He’ll show it to you. And always, always ask for advice.

One of my problems in the past was always questioning God if I felt He was
asking me to do something. "Is that you God, or me?" I don’t know how many times
I have asked that. But the best way to tell if it’s really God asking you to do
something, is looking at who will get the glory for your doing it. Is it
something that will make your flesh happy and more comfortable, or is it
something that will be sort of tough to do and help out someone else? I’ll let
you be the judge on that one. Just listen carefully.

"Therefore brethren we are debtors-not to the flesh, to live according to the
flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit
you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by
the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."

Romans 8:12-14

"I say then: walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the
flesh.

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become
conceited, provoking one another, envying one another." Galatians 5:16 and 25-26

Allow Yourself To Experience God

I realize many people don't "believe in" the Holy Spirit as far as speaking in
other tongues and stuff like that, and I'm not going to condemn that. But I'm
here to tell you that the Holy Spirit is real and just as much of a person as
Jesus is. And the best way to acquire total freedom, is through God's Holy
Spirit. Find a place and a time where you can get totally alone with the Holy
Spirit. Ask Him to fill you, teach you, give you strength. You don't have to
pray to Him, just talk to Him like you would as if you had a best friend sitting
next to you that you know you could pour your heart out to. put the lights down
low and put on some good soft worship music. Light a candle or two and just bask
in His presence. There's healing within that presence. I know many people have
been taught that the anointing of the Holy Spirit isn't for today. But you have
to open your heart enough to let yourself experience Him to fill you with God's
glory, even if it's just to see for yourself whether
  it's real or not. Fleshly wants, desires, emotions, confusions, pain and
suffering vanishes in God's presence-because death and destruction cannot
survive in that anointing and glory. In short, nothing that is not of God,
cannot stand in His presence-it has to bow out and leave! This is why it is so
difficult for many Christians to survive out there in this world, or even inside
there own hearts-because they lack the "experience" of God and the bondage
breaking anointing of His Holy Spirit. And I'm telling right now, there isn't a
drink, drug, or sexual experience in existence that can even compare to the
presence of God's Holy Spirit! I mean, we're talking about someone who created
the universe with a thought and a word! And He created us, who somehow got the
idea that we can be independent beings and survive without Him. The Bible tells
us that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, above, on and below the
earth that Jesus is Lord. (Philippians 2:10-11) So basically what
  that means is things like "homosexuality" "bondage" "sin" "fear" "pain"
"confusion" "addiction" and every name that is named (see Ephesians 1:19-22) HAS
to bow to Him! And where the presence of His Holy Spirit is, they don't have a
choice!

Now, I know many who may be reading this may think I'm full of something, but
that's okay-because those who have deep, curious and hopeful hearts already know
what I'm saying. So don't shield yourself from the Holy Spirit and His bondage
breaking anointing, because God so desperately wants to set you free. Make a
place and provide a provision for Him to come into your life and take control,
so everything that is within you that you hate so much, will have to bow to Him.
And last and most important, never limit God to the level of your intelligence
or knowledge of Him.

"Now the Lord is Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty"
2nd Cor. 3:17

"And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my Spirit on all
flesh; your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions. And also on My manservants and on my
maidservants I will pour out my Spirit in those days." Joel 2:28-29

Be blessed,

Rick

http://www.Spirit-Walkers.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Inge

You are absolutely right.

We of all people should be well aware that ALL HAVE SINNED and fallen
short.  All of us have the same death sentance on us and the blood of
Jesus avails for ALL sin.

We need to be ever conscious of the sentance that Christ released US
from, and not look down on other brothers who struggle.

Phil


--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Inge Anderson
<inge@g...> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> I am personally offended by the language you used in your post in
reference
> to a brother in Christ who was courageous enough to share his
lonely
> struggle. Your attitude does NOT demonstrate the spirit of Christ.
There
> was no basis for your post on "child molesters" except this man's
sharing.
> The Lord Jesus had strong words to say about one who would call his
brother
> a "fool," and you used the word "vermin"!!
>
> Please come to your senses & actually *read* what's on this forum
instead
> of sending in wild, emotional posts! (Your reaction is *exactly*
the same
> as many straight people who react to the very thought
of "homosexuality"
> with so much emotion that they don't even hear that the person is
living a
> godly life and does NOT engage in same-gender sex! To them *you*
are the
> "vermin"!)
>
> There IS NO CHILD MOLESTER ON THIS FORUM! The subject matter in
your mind
> is of your own making, Please don't blame anyone else for it.
>
> A brother in Christ shared his attraction to under-age boys --
something
> that is rather common among gay men, I might add. He shared that he
HAS NOT
> given in to the temptation.
>
> Can you say the same regarding your attraction to men? (Maybe
you're only
> attracted to men older than yourself?)
>
> Unfortunately it is human nature to be repulsed by temptations
different
> from our own. But the Bible clearly condemns *all* sex outside of
marriage
> -- and certainly sex among members of the same gender. So we're
*all* in
> the same boat here -- all condemned to die with no hope of heaven
EXCEPT
> for the love of Christ who died for EACH OF US -- no matter from
what
> directions our temptations come.
>
> This is the second so-called support forum on which I've seen
homosexually
> oriented men jump with condemnation on someone who shared a
struggle with
> attraction to under-age boys. Interesting how those who seek
understanding
> and compassion for themselves have none to offer those who have a
slightly
> different struggle.
>
> You seem so certain that someone else's temptation is worse than
your
> sin.  In the process, you may very well be offending "one of these
little
> ones" of whom Christ spoke. Remember that when we come to Christ,
we are
> "born again." Someone just born is a *child* of God for whom the
Lord has
> the greatest solicitude.
>
> You cannot make yourself more holy by condemning someone with a
different
> struggle. Holiness is demonstrated by showing a spirit like that of
Jesus
> who did NOT condemn a struggling sinner.
>
> When we *really* sense the wonderful gift of Christ's salvation, we
shall
> be so filled with gratitude that He would save a sinner like ME,
that we
> will not feel superior to others but reach out to them with love --
like
> one beggar taking another beggar by the hand and showing him where
there is
> an abundant source of food.
>
> Jesus made it clear that He could do nothing for those who felt
themselves
> holier than other sinners -- "not so far gone" --and wrapped their
robes of
> 'sanctity' about themselves. He said that the man who cried, "God
be
> merciful to me, a sinner!" went to his home justified. And without
His
> justification, we have no hope. Our robes of "sanctity" are but
filthy rags
> in His eyes.
>
> May He be merciful to you and me!
>
> In His grace,
> Inge
>
> PS Christ can even forgive those who *have* molested children. He's
saved
> mass murderers before -- like King Manasseh, for instance.  He
suffers with
> the victims of abuse, even while He's ready to save the abuser.
>
>
> At 11:41 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Tim Way wrote:
> >Hi Mike and Inge,
> >
> >I'm not judging anyone. You are judging me and my convictions, and
the
> >thoughts that I just cant even bear in my mind. I cant even deal
with
> >hearing about child molesters in my area without it making me sick
to my
> >stomach. Even the criminal justice system contains inmates who
take care
> >of this injustice by purging these demented predators  from the
prisons.
> >This sin is so disgusting to me I cant but vomit the very
knowledge of it
> >from my mind. As far as this man who is struggling with it, I'm
not
> >condemning him at all. I just cant allow the subject matter in my
mind as
> >I'm SO repulsed by it. Whether you like it or not Mike and Inge.
That sin
> >is the very thing that invokes the wrath of God upon all who
entertain it.
> >It is like blood guiltiness. Please for the sanctity of the rest
of us who
> >are not that far gone, please don't invite that element of
depravity here
> >I beg you.  May you come to your senses before this ministry is
turned
> >aside to the vermin.Tim Way
>
>           Inge Anderson   <inge@g...>
> *********************************************************
>     Sponsor of <http://www.glow.cc> an internet site for
> Christians with same-gender attractions and their friends.
> *********************************************************
>          A bruised reed shall he not break....
>                      Isaiah 42:3
> *********************************************************

Hi theslink. I wanted to let you know that I applaud you for voicing this issue
with the group. Although it is hard for some of us to understand, it is my
belief that sin is sin is sin. It is all sin. Homosexuality, fornication,
pedophilia...all sin. We can use other terms to describe it...addiction,
obsession, lifestyle, preference, but in God's truth, it is sin. Bringing this
out into the open with your Christian friends is the first step to freedom from
this bondage to sin. What you are under is very much a bondage. The dictionary
defines bondage as: the state of one who is bound as a slave or servant;a state
of subjection to a force, power, or influence. This is what you are under right
now...the influence of Satan and the bondage of the sin that originally started
with your negative experiences in childhood. I am leading up to something, so
bear with me, I think this will be fairly long.

I first want to make sure you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord
and Savior...you have asked the Lord to forgive you and cleanse you of all
unrighteousness. You have accepted Christ's death on the cross as payment for
your sin...you were a sinner, born in Adam (in Adam's lineage) and destined to
die in Adam. In other words, you, like everyone else, was born on your way to
hell to live eternally apart from God. The only way we are able to live
eternally in the presence of a holy, perfect, and righteous God is to accept the
only person who can bridge that sin gap on our behalf...Jesus! We cannot work
our way into heaven. Our BEHAVIOR does not determine our eternal destiny...all
of us were on our way to hell according to Scripture (the Bible). God sent a
gift in the form of His son...that whosoever believes in Him (Christ Jesus) will
have everlasting life!!! Now, if you believe Jesus died for your sins...and you
have asked for forgiveness for your sins, two things have
  occurred in your life. 1. You have been forgiven and your name has been written
in the Lamb's book of Life! 2. Your Spirit that was once dead (in Adam) has now
been brought to life! Two things have happened! The Spirit of God Himself
embodies a person who has accepted Jesus Christ! (1 Corin. 6:19; 3:16) There are
only two types of people in the world...those who are "in Adam" and those who
are "in Christ." It is the sinner versus the saint. Just as our physical
characteristics were determined at birth by our biological parents, our
spiritual characteristics were determined at birth by our spiritual father "the
prince of the power of the air" Satan (Ephesians 2:1-2). You did not become a
sinner...you were BORN a sinner because you were born in Adam (Romans 5:11-19).
Your birth determines identity! You were born hostile and alienated from God
(Colossians 1:21), a child of wrath (Eph. 2:1,5), condemned (Romans 6:23),
spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1,5), an enemy of God (Romans 5:8-10), and a
  slave of sin (Romans 6:17).

When you invited Jesus into your life, you were reborn! A NEW BIRTH!!! (1 Peter
1:23). You were transferred out of Satan's kingdom (Adam's lineage) and into
God's kingdom (Jesus' lineage). Read Colossians 1:13 You went from being a
caterpillar to a butterfly...and butterflies should no longer crawl around with
the worms! But that is what most of us do...although we have been transformed
into beautiful butterflies, we often still behave like worms, hang out with
worms, and continue to live the life of a worm! You now have all of Christ's
spiritual characteristics because you are now "in Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:27;
1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Corin. 12:27) You are a member of Christ's body...you are united
with the Lord (one spirit). You are God's child (John 1:12). You are complete in
Christ. (Colossians 2:10). You are born of God, the evil one cannot touch you.
(1 John 5:18)

You WERE a sinner. Now, you are a SAINT! Do you still sin? Yes, because your
body (flesh) and your Spirit are at war! You are no longer a sinner...you are a
saint who sins! There is a HUGE difference here. Romans 7:21-23 states: "I find
then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good.
For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I [the new
creation in Christ] see a different law in the members of my body, waging war
against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is
in my members."  There is a conflict with the new creation in Christ...and the
power that dwells in us. We are not evil...the evil is the law of sin. Paul
calls this war...and it is definitely war. We are righteous, holy, and blameless
before God in Christ Jesus...but we don't always act, think, or feel that way.
This is why we have to reprogram our minds to truth. Where do the thoughts come
from? Satan! You are not waging war against
  yourself...these thoughts are coming from Satan. At the same time, you are
allowing them to invade your mind...they in turn, will invade your body. Once we
receive the thoughts and they are ours, the sinning is a product of those
thoughts. Satan knows our old ways as he was instrumental in their programming!
We can't stop him from giving us thoughts but we do not have to receive those
thoughts because those thoughts are LIES! The traumatic experiences of your
childhood have been seared into your mind, your memory banks, and they became
part of your flesh: meeting your own needs with your own resources. These
thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that influence your everyday existence are a
direct result of your experiences. Satan, THE DECEIVER, will give you thoughts
that keep all of your flesh in an uproar. You still consider yourself a
homosexual, pedofile, sinner, etc. You may even consider yourself unworthy of
being loved by someone heterosexual. You can overcome your past and flesh
  patterns but it will not happen overnight. You must reprogram your mind...your
personal computer...to absolute TRUTH. How do you do this? You have to believe
God will take over this battle for you and through you. You just have to allow
Him to fight the battle. You have to first choose by your own free will to allow
Christ to fight this battle for you. You have to give this to him every time you
embark upon a struggle, a thought, a desire, a sensation, a emotion, a hurt, a
feeling, an urge! You must set your mind to truth...God lives in you. God's
strength can enable you to make the choice to flee the thoughts Satan presents
to you on a daily basis. Satan's goal is to deceive and destroy each of us.
Every time Satan offers you a choice...even if it is in singular, first-person
format [I want this, I want that, this urge is too hard for "me" to bear]
remember that Satan is knocking on the threshold of your mind and thoughts.
Block him out. Rebuke him out! When Satan offers us a
  choice, a thought, a temptation...God opens a door of escape. You don't do this
in your own strength. YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS apart from Jesus Christ. Christ is
your strength. Christ will do it FOR YOU. How? You pray...when the thoughts
come...ask Jesus to do it for you...that you can't do it. You can't resist on
your own. You pursue the right course of action: You stop, you refuse, you turn,
and you head the other direction, all the while believing by faith that it is
His life through you, that He is your source, and that you are drawing from the
power that now lives inside you!!! I used to love alcohol in college...I still
have an occasional desire to partake and every time the thought enters my mind,
God provides a means of escape. I decide "I need a drink." Satan introduces the
thought...I then get up to go to the kitchen. (Chance one...refuse to go to the
kitchen to look for a drink) I open the refrigerator (deliverance opportunity #2
as I could resist opening the refrigerator in
  my search) I don't see any beer in the fridge so I then decide I could make a
quick run to the grocery store (escape three) I go get the keys (escape 4) I get
in my car (escape 5) I get to the grocery store (escape 6) I bring the beer up
to the counter to purchase it (escape 7...I could leave the store at this point
before indulging in a drink, empty-handed, and return home with Coca-Cola
instead). Corinthians 10:13 It is a battle starting in our minds...what we do
with those initial thoughts truly has an outcome on whether or not we choose to
follow through or deny the act of sin. Oftentimes, I will argue with myself...I
could do this, but I know that is wrong. It is a constant battle. Until we leave
our earthly bodies behind, we will experience this battle.

You have a NEW identity. Your identity is now in Christ. You are now an heir to
the throne of Jesus and accepted by God, not because of your actions, thoughts,
or sin...but because of Jesus! The only sin that will ever send a man to hell is
his disbelief. The gift of salvation (Jesus) is there...it is just there for
those who choose to accept it. You are already reconciled with God. Your
behavior does not make you who you are. Your BEHAVIOR does not change your
identity!!! (Romans 5:6, 8, 10) The old you is gone now...and Christ has
replaced the old you with His very Spirit.

Behavior does not change until a person's identity changes. In other words, our
belief about ourselves determines our behavior. Satan wants us to believe his
lie that our behavior tells us what to believe about ourselves. WRONG. Your
identity does not come from what you have done...in the past. Nor does it come
from what you did today or do tomorrow. It comes from what God has done for us.

Your personal computer (brain) has been programmed over the years of emotional
and mental abuse and rejection through no fault of your own. For whatever
reasons, your parents also had some pattern of thinking and belief system that
unfortunately led to their own mistakes. What I think the world has us do to
"solve" our problems is receive counseling. We're told to talk about our
problems without considering the simple fact that our underlying need is to be
reconciled with God. We then need to reprogram our flesh patterns...reprogram
our way of thinking to TRUTH! You have been led to believe that you are
unworthy, unlovable, undesirable, inadequate, inferior, worthless, etc. These
are some of the patterns  have formed and have been embedded in your brain
throughout your life, courtesy of Satan and his craftiness. Remember that your
parents were victims of this process too...those who abused you, those you
partnered with over the years, those who were living with the same underlying
  need for acceptance, love, forgiveness, understanding, significance,
security...were all experiencing the flesh. Each of us has a flesh pattern...a
way of thinking, doing, believing, and behaving.

What you must do to achieve freedom from this bondage is to reprogram your mind
to the TRUTH of your identity in Christ. You are a SAINT! You are completely
accepted by Christ and God. Your identity does not come from what other people
say or think about you, nor does it come from what they do to you. Your identity
comes from what God says and thinks and BELIEVES about you. God sees you as a
SAINT. You are His precious child, whom He loves beyond measure. Nothing you do
will ever change God's love for you. He wants for you to realize your identity
in Him so He can free you from this bondage. Your behavior will not change until
your thoughts and flesh patterns are realized and changed. This is what the
Bible means when it refers to renewing the mind to truth. (Romans 12:2) "Do not
conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the
renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will
is–his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Your emotions are not always true...but they are real. What you are feeling,
experiencing, desiring...is all a product of your way of thinking and your flesh
pattern. I recommend you read "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Also check
out "Classic Christianity" by Bob George. These two resources may not touch on
these thoughts in your mind but they will help you to reprogram your mind to
truth. I will be praying for you. Remember that although it is hard for you to
share your struggles here in the forum and elsewhere...Satan will not have a
stronghold over you as confession is a first step to freedom. I'm not suggesting
you blast your congregation with your experiences...but finding those who love
you and know you are special, worthy, and a terrific child of God will be able
to pick you up and pray with you when your struggles are at their peak. You may
go through many ups and downs but eventually, I believe God will help you find
total freedom from these desires. I will type up a
  list of verses I want you to read each day. (I did this for several months
before my self-esteem and belief changed...it was a necessary thing for me and
although I didn't struggle with homosexual desires, I too had an emotionally
abusive childhood) I'll try to get the verses out by this weekend. Read them
aloud, looking at yourself in the mirror...as much as possible. It will be tough
and you'll feel awkward...but after time, your mind WILL be renewed to TRUTH.
And one day, you will wake up and your desires will seem so foreign to you
because you will believe you are who God says you are! This is how my behavior
changed. This is how my detrimental thoughts and internal depression was driven
away. Now, when someone offends me, hurts my feelings, or I feel the need to act
contrary to my identity, I read my Bible verses! "[You] are free from any charge
against [you]. Romans 8:31-34

We will be praying for you.

Love and prayers,
Christa


theslink@... wrote:

I have a very serious problem. While I am a sex addict and have had homosexual
encounters with men I am really attracted to teen age boys. While I have never
offended with under age kids I have had problems with child pornography in the
past. Thankfully the Lord has kept me from all forms of pornography for about a
year. This is a big turn around since I used to spend hours every day looking at
porn. I feel so alone because all of the books I have found about recovering for
homosexuality deal strictly with adult attractions and none of the members of my
group are pedophiles. Can anyone recommend a title about pedophilia?

Also I have read one book about homosexual recovery. It said that the key to
recovery was to build relationships. Is recovery really as easy as making
friends? There has to be something more to this. I was seriously abused as a
child physically and emotionally (but not sexually) by my father and
grandmother. While I have forgiven them I still think my problems are rooted in
my childhood and my rejection by my peers. I am in secular therapy but they seem
to focus more on changing my behavior than addressing underlying emotional
problems. Thats not to say I haven't made good progress. My sex drive is more
under control and I haven't had any same sex contact in a year and I have gotten
out of porn. But I am still hurting, lonely, and have problems with lust and
masturbation anywhere from once to twice a week to once every two weeks. I
really want to heal and be normal. Can anybody offer any words of advice??

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