Ministry Needs (keep these in your prayers)
NCXDS Ex-Gay Christian Ministries
(the parent ministry of the Ex-Gay Discussion Board)

We are continually looking for volunteers to serve in the following positins:

Assistant Moderators for this Ex-Gay Discussion Board (~300 members strong!!)
[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exgaydiscussionboard/] helps to answer questions
on the discussion board, re-direct discussions when they go off-topic,
screen/approve new members, and refer people to ministries in their local area.

Assistant WebMasters (at least some web programming/html experience is
preferred, but not required) helps keep the links list
[http://geocities.com/exgaylinks] as current as possible (this is becoming more
and more of a time-consuming task as more ministries and additional resources
seem to pop-up on the web weekly!)

Assistant Web Researcher helps to validate the many links that we have on our
site to ensure they are still valid, as well as to "glean" additional ministries
and other resources from those sites as well as using search engines to find
even more ministries and resources to include in our list (NO programming
experience necessary, anyone who can "Google" qualifies).

Pray that God sends us volunteers to help keep this ministry strong and active
to serve the Internet community and provide information and referral information
on Healing from Homosexuality. If you know of anyone who may be interested,
please have them contact me.

Blessings!!

--Alan Levering
Founder/Director
NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Christian Ministries
ncxds@...

WAIT
By Russell Kelfer



Desperately, helplessly, longingly, I cried;
Quietly, patiently, lovingly, God replied.
I pled and I wept for a clue to my fate...
and the Master so gently said," Wait."


"Wait? you say wait?" my indignant reply.
"Lord, I need answers, I need to know why!"
Is your hand shortened? Or have you not heard?
By faith I have asked, and I'm claiming your Word.


My future and all to which I relate..
hangs in the balance and you tell me to Wait?"
I'm needing a 'yes', a go-ahead sign.
Or even a 'no,' to which I'll resign.


You promised, dear Lord, that if we believe,
We need but to ask, and we shall receive.
Lord, I've been asking, and this is my cry:
I'm weary of asking! I need a reply.


Then quietly, softly, I learned of my fate
as my Master replied again, "Wait."
So I slumped in my chair, defeated and taut,
and grumbled to God, "So, I'm waiting...for what?"


He seemed then to kneel, and His eyes met with mine..
And He tenderly said, "I could give you a sign.
I could shake the heavens and darken the sun.
I could raise the dead and cause mountains to run.


I could give all you seek and pleased you would be.
You'd have what you want, but you wouldn't know Me.
You'd not know the depth of My love for each saint.
You'd not know the power that I give to the faint.


You'd not learn to see through clouds of despair;
You'd not learn to trust just by knowing I'm there.
You'd not know the joy of resting in Me...
When darkness and silence are all you can see.


You'd never experience the fullness of love
When the peace of My spirit descends like a dove.
You would know that I give, and I save, for a start,
But you'd not know the depth of the beat of My heart.


The glow of My comfort late into the night,
The faith that I give when you walk without sight.
The depth that's beyond getting just what you ask
From an infinite God who makes what you have last.


You'd never know should your pain quickly flee,
What it means that My grace is sufficient for thee.
Yes, your dearest dreams overnight would come true,
But oh, the loss if I lost what I'm doing in you.


So, be silent, my child, and in time you will see
That the greatest of gifts is to truly know me.
And though oft My answers seem terribly late,
My most precious answer of all is still "WAIT"









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hershey...Nesteles...Ghiradell...Godiva...mochas...chocolate covered
ANYTHING (within reason)... brownies...devils food cake...chocolate chip
cookies...heck, chocolate chip ANYTHING...

My idea of Heaven!

Ralph

_________________________________________________________________
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
a trip to NY
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/

>Q. What do they call pastors in Germany?
>A.  German Shepherds.
>
>Q.  Who was the greatest financier in the Bible?
>A.  Noah.  He was floating his stock while everyone else was in  liquidation.
>
>Q.  Who was the greatest female financier in the Bible?
>A.  Pharaoh's daughter.  She went down to the bank of the Nile and drew out a
little prophet.
>Q.  What kind of motor vehicles are in the Bible?
>A.  Jehovah drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden in a Fury.  David's Triumph
was heard throughout the land.  Also, probably a Honda, because the apostles
were all in one Accord.
>
>Q.  What kind of man was Boaz before he married?
>A.  Ruthless.
>
>Q.  Who was the greatest comedian in the Bible?
>A.  Samson.  He brought the house down.
>
>Q.  What excuse did Adam give to his children as to why he no longer lived in
Eden?
>A.  Your mother ate us out of house and home.
>
>Q.  Which area of Palestine was especially wealthy?
>A.  The area around Jordan.  The banks were always overflowing.
>
>Q.  Which Bible character had no parents?
>A.  Joshua, son of Nun.
>
>Q.  Why didn't they play cards on the Ark?
>A.  Because Noah was standing on the deck.  (Groan...)
>
>PS: Did you know it's a sin for a woman to make coffee?  Yup, it's in the
Bible.  It says .  .    "Hebrews"
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ralph,

So guys love it as much as us gals huh? I read somewhere that caffeine increase
ones sex drive and drinking caffeinated soda's makes it worse. Now, I understand
that one Hershey bar has as much caffeine in it as two cups of coffee. Anyone
else heard this?

Bridget
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Ralph Puccini
   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:26 AM
   Subject: [ExGDBd] A-1 Chocohalic Here!


   Hershey...Nesteles...Ghiradell...Godiva...mochas...chocolate covered
   ANYTHING (within reason)... brownies...devils food cake...chocolate chip
   cookies...heck, chocolate chip ANYTHING...

   My idea of Heaven!

   Ralph

   _________________________________________________________________
   Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
   a trip to NY
   http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/



   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

   Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>


   .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: cprayernet
To: Chestnut Street Baptist Church
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:51 PM
Subject: Attack on Marriage... Gary Bauer



Yesterday, I promised to give you more information about the impending vote on
the Federal Marriage Amendment. We have some more details and, my friends, the
fight is on! Believe it or not, this is going to be a tremendously difficult
battle. It shouldn't be, but as I  reported to you recently a deal was struck
last month between Senate Democrats and militant homosexual activists to kill
any effort to protect traditional marriage. It appears to be working.
Right now, it is hard to count 50 votes in favor of the amendment! That's not
because there are 50 senators who will admit they support  homosexual
"marriage," but many on both sides of aisle are hiding behind a host of excuses
to avoid doing the only thing that will preserve marriage in America as the
union of one man and one woman.
One of the most frequently offered excuses is that marriage is a "states' rights
issue" that should be left to the states to decide. It's a ludicrous argument,
but it is nothing more than an excuse. I  know this because 65 senators,
including 18 Republicans, voted last night  to expand federal interference in
state criminal issues when it comes to  so-called "hate crimes" based on ual
orientation. These 65 senators  expect us to believe that the federal government
should rush to the defense  of a homosexual who may or may not have been
attacked because of his "orientation," but the federal government has no
interest in preserving marriage - the foundation of our society.
Make no mistake about it - the courts will redefine marriage. They did it in
Hawaii. They did it in Vermont. They did it in Massachusetts. And they just did
it again in New York. Are our elected representatives going to do anything to
stop it? The result of congressional inaction - or the failure to pass an
amendment - will give a green light to  liberal judges all across the country
and the consequences will be devastating.
The words "husband" and "wife" will be meaningless. Homosexual adoption will be
instantly legalized and generations of children will be raised in wholly
unnatural environments - deprived of ever having the benefit of a mother and a
father. The public schools will teach your children that two men "marrying" each
other are morally equivalent to one man and one woman. It's legal, so it must be
okay! Our kids will be taught how to perform "safe sodomy" in their sex
education classes. Churches will be pressured to either abandon the Scriptures
or lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to "marry" homosexuals. That
would be discrimination, after all!
Do you need any more reasons to get involved? There will be tremendous economic
consequences. Homosexual "spouses" will suddenly be entitled to health insurance
benefits and given the high rates of disease and other medical issues associated
with the lifestyle, all of us will pay even more for health insurance. And
there's Social Security. Homosexual "spouses" will be entitled to Social
Security retirement and survivors'  benefits.
Will the government have to settle a massive class action lawsuit by all those
out there who have been denied these benefits because they couldn't legally
marry before? What if two heterosexual men want to "marry" for the benefits?
Would that be legal too?
Once we open the definition of marriage up to something other than the union of
one man and one woman, there is no legal or moral reason to continue the
prohibition against polygamy and polyamory - group marriage.
Polygamists are already suing because the Supreme Court in Lawrence v. Texas
said states had no right to legislate based on morality!
Is this the future America you want for your children and grandchildren? It will
be unless men and women of faith take their civic duty more seriously! If you
have ever organized anything before - even a school bake sale - we need your
help now. We must deluge congressional offices with phone calls, letters and
e-mails in defense of traditional marriage. We need people organizing their
churches and social clubs, contacting friends and family members.
Here is what we need you to do:
1) Call Congress right now at (202) 224- 3121 and demand your senators
co-sponsor the Federal Marriage Amendment.
2) Then call five friends and family members and ask them to do  the same.
3) E-mail this report to everyone in your address book and ask them to call too!
4) Share this report with friends at church and at work and encourage them to
speak up.

Be bold! The American people don't want this. But the politicians in Washington
must be made to fear for their political lives!


Please feel free to pass on this "End of Day" update to interested friends and
family members.

If you would like to receive this update by e-mail or fax, you can sign up
online at http://www.cwfpac.com/cwf_eod_request.htm

To be removed from Gary Bauer's End of Day distribution list, please reply to
this message with "Remove" in the subject line.

If you would like to support our work, please click on the following link:
http://www.cwfpac.com/join_campaign.htm



Campaign for Working Families
2800 Shirlington Road
Suite 930
Arlington, VA 22206
Phone:703-671-8800
Fax: 703-671-8899
Web: www.cwfpac.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't it??
Hawaii...it's on my ten-year list! : ) We could always meet up
there!!! : ) LOL.
Wouldn't that be something...(Okay, it was a dreamy thought, wasn't
it?) Then again, when we get to heaven, we'll all be together and I
can't imagine a better "meeting place" than that!!

Christa

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
<BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
>
> Christa,
>
> Henry told me you, Alan, and some others are in North Carolina and
that next years Exodus Conference will be in Raleigh? Maybe we can
all get together then. Hawaii is always been my dream.
>
> Bridget
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: ctickle777
>   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:00 PM
>   Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: Bridget
>
>
>   I think we have officially established a chocolate lovers clique
>   within the forum! LOL! : ) I agree completely Bridget. This
group is
>   a wonderful place for support of all kinds for all kinds.
>
>   My husband and I are planning a trip to the French Polynesian
>   islands (we won't take this year but I'm willing to scrimp,
save,
>   and wait) so I am looking forward to going sometime within the
next
>   year or two. It's always been a dream of mine to visit Bora
>   Bora...let me know if you are ever in my neck of the woods and
we'll
>   have to get together! I hope you and your husband enjoy a
wonderful
>   weekend in NY!
>
>   Christa : )
>
>   --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
>   <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
>   > LOL!!! I am starting to love this internet family we have
here. It
>   is wonderful that we have people from all walks of life, with
>   different trials and perspectives here.  Males get to understand
us
>   PMS females and that we want CHOCOLATE-dark chocolate for our
anti-
>   oxidants. Girls get to understand guys needs and what their ears
are
>   and that not all men are scum. And, parents and friends show
that
>   many straights do care and are willing to learn what to do and
not
>   to do.
>   >
>   > Talking of vacations. My husband and I are leaving Monday,
July 5
>   for a weeks vacation. We are heading out on the road towards
Palmyra
>   New York and will be taking the 1-71 exit number 11 towards
>   Cleveland and merge onto the Berea Frway. and take 1-71 North to
1-
>   90 East. If anyone live close by there maybe we can all stop for
>   lunch together.
>   >
>   > Have a wonderful fourth of July and be patriotic.
>   >
>   > Bridget
>   >
>   > P.S. Rick did you get the IM discussion I sent you of my talk
with
>   my son? He actually said he would try to pray once a week
>   >
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Inge Dijkhoff
>   >   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:28 AM
>   >   Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: HI EVERYONE
>   >
>   >
>   >   I'm also being beaten by PMS! :-(
buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! :-(
>   >
>   >   It can be said that it almost makes me hallucinate. I'd
rather
>   have
>   >   the physical pain than the emotional/mental rollercoaster.
>   >
>   >   Chocolate! Chocolate! Where's the chocolate, that's going to
>   take it
>   >   away.
>   >
>   >   Has anyone had a mourning period when deciding to be
obedient to
>   God
>   >   --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "ctickle777"
>   >   <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
>   >   > Hi Susan! Glad you're back! We've all missed you during
your
>   >   > vacation. I'd LOVE to take a vacation right now. : ) At
any
>   rate,
>   >   > I'm praying for you. I'm married and believe it or not,
>   somedays
>   >   > (particularly during PMS) I feel a bit lonely too! But
then,
>   the
>   >   sun pops through the clouds and I feel energized all over
again!
>   >   It's that wonderful hormonal thing (which has been
especially
>   crabby
>   >   this month)! So, hang in there. I know you have made a major
>   >   adjustment in your life regarding your ex...you are a strong
>   woman
>   >   with her eyes on Christ...and you are victorious! Way to go
>   sister!
>   >   >
>   >   > Prayers and blessings,
>   >   > Christa
>   >   >
>   >   > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Susan"
>   >   > <gods2rubygirl@y...> wrote:
>   >   > > I've been reading the messages. Everyone has a lot of
good
>   >   things
>   >   > to
>   >   > > say. Guess I just haven't gotten into the flow of things
>   here
>   >   > lately. I'm still tired from my trip and maybe feeling a
>   little
>   >   depressed and/or lonely. Still no more messages from
my "ex" :-)
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at:
ncxds@y...
>   >
>   >   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
>   >   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>   >
>   >   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>   >
>   >   Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
>   <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
>   <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>   >
>   >
>   >   .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
>   <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ---------------------------------------------------------------
----
>   -----------
>   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exgaydiscussionboard/
>   >
>   >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   >     exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   >
>   >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
>   of Service.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
>
>   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
>   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
>   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
>   Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
>   .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exgaydiscussionboard/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL. You're speaking my language Ralph!
: ) Christa

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Puccini"
<ralphpuccini@h...> wrote:
> Hershey...Nesteles...Ghiradell...Godiva...mochas...chocolate
covered
> ANYTHING (within reason)... brownies...devils food
cake...chocolate chip
> cookies...heck, chocolate chip ANYTHING...
>
> My idea of Heaven!
>
> Ralph
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and
enter to win
> a trip to NY
> http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-
url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/

Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M mean?
I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I don't
want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total idiot
but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess was
sex and marriage...am I right?

Christa

Hi Christa,

      Sister that is one of those areas of what the Bible calls the deeper things
of Satan. You are better off not knowing about S&M or B&D. Your brother in
Christ, Tim Way

ctickle777 <ctickle777@...> wrote:
Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M mean?
I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I don't
want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total idiot
but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess was
sex and marriage...am I right?

Christa



Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>


.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, I'll take your word for it, Tim. I'll leave that curiosity at
Jesus' feet. That's probably why I was hesitant to search it...I
didn't want to run the risk of pulling up something displeasing to
God. I've read the acronym S&M a lot in personal testimonies but
never have I seen it actually spelled out, I didn't know. I've never
seen the term B&D. Thanks for responding Tim! : ) It's crazy b/c I
graduated from high school not knowing what a keg was...(beer keg
that is) so I'm fortunate in a sense that I am uninformed about
certain things. Can you picture me sitting at a fraternity house
hanging out with a few friends, and saying, "What's a keg?" That
honest question brought about a round of laughs to say the least.
Unfortunately, though, the keg and I became much acquainted prior to
my turn toward Jesus!

Instead of allowing Satan to spark curiosity, now that I am sure it
is not good, I will praise God for my ignorance regarding these two
things!

Blessings,

Christa

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
<inotheway@y...> wrote:
> Hi Christa,
>
>      Sister that is one of those areas of what the Bible calls the
deeper things of Satan. You are better off not knowing about S&M or
B&D. Your brother in Christ, Tim Way
>
> ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M
mean?
> I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I
don't
> want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total idiot
> but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess was
> sex and marriage...am I right?
>
> Christa
>
>
>
> Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
>
> The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
> NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
> Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
> Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
> .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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Service.
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>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually back in the days when the Yahoo Groups were called "Clubs"
there were no pols, then they merged with "Groups" and i have yet to
figure out how to get the opolls to work after the fact.  Any ideas (I
wouldn't mind at all adding them!!)

--Alan

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <welmond@a...>
wrote:
> Hi Mods,
> I was wondering if Alan decided to not use the "polls" feature on
the exgaydiscussionboard,    or if I'm crazy and it does not exist....
but I thought it would be a neat idea for the   chocolate question and
other questions,   but I don't see the menu option on the board.   I
was going to put one up.  Any thoughts?
>
> Michael
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think adding polls would be a really interesting thing! And
beneficial to others as well! This was a great idea of Michael's!

Christa : )

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, ncxds <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> Actually back in the days when the Yahoo Groups were called "Clubs"
> there were no pols, then they merged with "Groups" and i have yet
to
> figure out how to get the opolls to work after the fact.  Any
ideas (I
> wouldn't mind at all adding them!!)
>
> --Alan
>
> --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Michael"
<welmond@a...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Mods,
> > I was wondering if Alan decided to not use the "polls" feature on
> the exgaydiscussionboard,    or if I'm crazy and it does not
exist....
> but I thought it would be a neat idea for the   chocolate question
and
> other questions,   but I don't see the menu option on the board.
I
> was going to put one up.  Any thoughts?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TRIGGER ALERT: Caution -- I am at the point where I want to express
some slightly graphic experiences. This may cause some TRIGGERS to go
off in some of you reading this. So use your own judgment in reading
it.

*****************

(...Continued from a previous post)

A colleague invited me to a Single's Group at her church. I went and
really felt at home.  They were all single professionals around my
age. It was nice to "belong" to this group.  We went out on many
"group dates." About 1 1/2 years later (after moving my membership to
this new church) I started dating one of the women in this group.

One of the teachings the singles group had was on dating and
courtship.  The sole purpose of courtship was to see if you were
compatible for marriage.  Once a lack of compatibility is determined,
there is no need to go out with that person any more.  We were told to
prayerfully come up with a list of qualifications that our future
spouse HAD to meet. Then, when dating, casually bring up these items
to see if the person meets these qualifications.  I had done this with
one girl I thought I was somewhat serious about. She got every queston
WRONG!  She was obviously not meant for me!!

When I started dating this other girl in my groiup, I again casually
asked her the same questions. She passed with flying colors!!  That
began to scare me!! I startefd to pray that God would show me how to
proceed.  I also got  counseling from my Single's Group leader (who
was married) and the pastor. I explained to them my struggles and the
abue I experienced by the minister in college. They said "you haven't
so you're not!" Meaning that since I had never gone "all the way" with
another man, that meant that I was not gay. (I am not sure how they
came up with that conclusion since I also had not slept with a woman -
so did that, by default, make me also not straight??) I explained the
temptations and propostions  I had been experiencing on the subway --
so their answer was for me to get a car so I would not have to
"confront" that any more! (Does keeping an alcoholic away from bars
actually cure his addiction??) They also suggested that since I was
seriosuly dating this girl, that I should not need to wait for
marriage but to go ahead. (Perhaps, they were trying to prove their
theory that by getting me to have sex with a woman -- in the context
of marriage -- that this would mean I was straight!)

We went ahead and got married before the end of that year. Even though
we had a very strong and healthy physical relationship, the struggles
and temptations continued -- perhaps worsening. I was longing for a
deep relationship with a man -- something I never received from my
father or step-father. That longing persisted and the fantasy life
continued to worsen. What was I going to do??

(...to be Continued in a future post)

>
> ******************
>
> I was born on the US West Coast. I had 2 older
> sisters, but we were all within 4 years of each other.
> My Dad worked days, my mother worked evenings. I
> rememeber my dad being distant, almost apatheic while
> "watching" us. If we were hurt, he would tell us to
> "shake it off" --
> that kind of thing. My mother, though often kind &
> motherly, was often very critical. They divorced when
> I was about 8. We all stayed with mom. Apparently Dad
> was having an affair with his good friend's wife (The
> friend & wife had a daughter my age). He eventually
> married this woman. She never liked us (the proverbial
> evil step-mother incarnate!). She made sure that he
> only saw us 2x per year. So he was no longer a
> "factor" in our lives -- except for the pain and
> emptiness that he left in his wake. All three of us
> longed for that father figure and that emptiness would
> affect us the rest of our lives.
>
> My mother did her best to raise us as a single mom. We
> were on welfare for a time, then she got a job to
> support us. We even lived with her mother for a short
> time. I remember that child support was always an
> issue. Though my father had a very nice income, he
> would fight each payment "tooth and nail" especially
> any additional expenses, like dental work, doctor
> bills, etc. As a result, we were always struggling
> with money.
>
> While finishing grade school, my mom started dating a
> man who would become our stepfather. He was several
> years younger than her and a Vietnam vet. He also
> hated kids, especially teenagers (and he now had 2
> teen girls and a pre-teen boy). Before the marriage he
> seemed kind, and we were all hopeful that he would
> become that father we had hoped for all those years.
> When they got married, my eldest sister was not able
> to attend as she was visiting our aunt in another
> state for the
> summer! (Actually I found out many years later, she
> was pregnant and was in a home for unwed moms until
> the baby was born!! Obviously a result of looking for
> that father-love in the wrong places! The baby was
> given up for adoption.) My middle sister was more of a
> "tom-boy"
> so she and our step-dad got along pretty well since
> they had some mutual interest. I was just the
> opposite. I was academic and sensitive. I had hoped he
> would "take me uunder his wing" and show me all the
> sports, etc. that I had never been exposed to, but
> mostly I
> felt rejection from him.
>
> Around this time, I entered Junior High. With puberty
> hitting and all those hormones and confused feelings,
> this was when I first felt SSA. A tall, athletic boy
> was leaning over my desk in math class to get
> help with a problem (I loved math) a "voice" inside of
> me said "KISS HIM!" Of course, I didn't but was
> shocked to feel those things. I never acted on those
> urges, but always felt them. I had girlfriends in
> school (that was the thing to do) but never went
> further than hand
> holding or a peck on the cheek, even though my friends
> had already gone into "heavy petting". I just didn't
> feel comfortable going that far. I assumed it was
> beecause of this "deep sense of morals" I had
> inside but did not realize until later that this was
> also probably due (at least in part) to the SSA. I
> also remember having fantasies about S&M and bondage
> usually with other boys and especially with those I
> didn't like, such as the bullies who would tease me.
> It was usually some type of naked torture towards
> them. Looking back, this seemed very odd, since I was
> never exposed to that type of pornography or similar
> types of images. I always thought I just had a "sick"
> mind.
>
> I did alright in school, with an A/B average. I had a
> few friends, but mostly was labeled in the "Nerd" or
> "Geek" class. I did meet one guy who was a year older
> than me in school, and we became good friends.
> We rode the same bus to school so we saw each other
> every day. He, too, lost his dad from divorce and
> never saw much of him. He was funny and could make me
> laugh.
>
> I haven't mentioned much about my middle sister,
> except that she was a tom-boy (and got along pretty
> well with our step-dad, since they shared several
> interests). We were very close in age and have always
> struggled with sibling rivalry. She would always tease
> and taunt me,
> calling me "fat & ugly" She would hit me and practice
> her Wrestling moves on me (her favorite show on TV!).
> Since she was a "girl" and I was a "boy," I was not
> allowed to hit back!! She was also great at sports,
> especially softball.
>
> I was horrible at sports. What made matters worse is
> that my mother insisted I not get involved in sports
> or I might break my glasses and she does not have the
> money to get them replaced. (She was good at
> imposing guilt on us kids!) My step-dad was not much
> help, He took me fishing once. I caught one fish but
> had to throw it back -- I think it wasn't a kind worth
> eating. He did buy me a pole and gear which I thought
> was cool, but he acted like it was a burden to take me
> with him. That was it for the male bonding thing!!
> Though he was not physically abusive, he was
> verbally/emotionally abusive. He was such a
> perfectionist that if we made a snack after school, if
> there were even a few bread crumbs on the counter, he
> would SLAM his fist on the counter and demand that we
> clean it up!! I always dreaded waiting for him to come
> home. He usually came home before my mom. I always
> feared the sound of his truck driving up to the house,
> and even more -- the car door slamming!! I still, even
> today, jump at the sound of a car door slam!
>
> He was even worse to my oldest sister (the one who had
> gotten pregnant). When she came back "from our aunt's
> house" (having the baby), he was particularly nasty to
> her. Years later, I found out he had told my mom that
> he did not want that "slut" to live under HIS roof!
> She
> eventually left and lived with my grandma for a few
> years. She moved back for her last 2 years of high
> school, then moved out on her own as soon as she
> graduated, eventually leaving town for college.
>
> My own high school experience was not much different
> than junior high. I was still a "Nerd/Geek" but got
> involved in drama. My "bus" friend was already
> involved in drama. I got the "acting bug" after seeing
> him
> in a play. I enjoyed being creative -- working on the
> sets, picking out costumes, helping with the lighting
> board, applying the make-up to match my character. It
> was great fun and kept me out of the house --
> away from my step-dad!
>
> Living in the all-white (some Hispanic) suburbs in the
> early 80's, there was never any "openly gay" people
> anywhere, especially not at school. It *was*
> interesting, however, that my step-dad had an openly
> gay brother who lived in the city. My step-dad would
> be nice in front of him, but would always be mean and
> belittle him and his "roommate" behind their back. I
> can't help but wonder what kind of abusive upbringing
> they had to cause such polar opposite personalities,
> though both extremely skewed! I also worked part-time
> at a restaurant where 2 of the managers were gay.
> Neither talked about it much, but everyone "knew".
> That was the limit to my "exposure" to the gay
> lifestyle up
> until that time.
>
> Meanwhile, my middle sister continued to taunt me.
> Once I finally "snapped" and retaliated!! After a
> particularly nasty name-calling and hitting session, I
> grabbed her and pinned her on the kitchen floor,
> literally beating her head with my fist. My other
> sister had to peel me off of her. Once I came to my
> senses, I couldn't believe the anger and power that I
> had bottled up inside of me. It was rather
> frightening. Needless to say, my sister toned down the
> nastiness after that!!
>
> My "bus" friend convinced me to go with him to a
> church youth group at a local baptist church. My
> paternal grandparents had taken us to their church
> several times when we were kids, but that was it. My
> own parents could have cared less. Their church was
> VERY legalistic and all of their kids (including my
> father) rebelled against having any religion in their
> life. So I had virtually no church upbringing except
> for that. Well, I went several times to the youth
> group, and enjoyed it. They had a rock band and played
> all kinds of games with the kids. I really felt a part
> of it and there were lots of young men who helped
> to lead the group. They really gave me someone to look
> up to. About every 6 weeks, they would have an altar
> call. (the preceding weeks would lead up to this)
> Every time they did, I would pray to God and tell him
> that I just wasn't ready.
>
> I still had some girlfriends in high school. I dated
> one girl who was a few years older than me and she
> wanted things to go very physical, but I just wasn't
> ready. It only went to heavy kissing, but that was
> all. I just was not ready for anything more.
>
> I continued to go to the youth group through my junior
> year. I still kept telling God I was not ready. They
> offered a week-long retreat of camping and rafting. I
> was able to get the money to go. I would be
> away from home and with people I liked!! Half-way
> through the retreat, We had a guest speaker who talked
> about the actual suffering Jesus went through on the
> cross (this was more than 20 years before the
> Passion movie!!). I always thought that dying on the
> cross was mostly symbolic, but since He was god, that
> it really didn't hurt (that's teen logic for you!). I
> had no idea how much suffering that Jesus went
> through -- and that he did it all for ME!! The tears
> just flowed down from my eyes. He gave and altar call
> and I went down!! I was finally ready -- I asked Jesus
> into my heart.
>
> Several weeks after I was back home, I found out that
> my mother was divorcing my stepfather. My mom & I
> ended up moving only a few blocks away so I could stay
> at my high school for my senior year. By this time,
> both my sisters had moved out. I had a new perspective
> on
> things having Jesus in my heart, but what I needed
> most was discipleship. I really did not have anyone to
> look up to. I had a steady girlfriend (also from the
> youth group) she was good for support and again, we
> went as far as heavy kissing. My "bus" friend, by this
> time was also saved, but had problems of his own.
> Apparently he had gotten a mutual friend pregnant and
> was smoking pot. Apparently he was facing his own
> demons!!
>
> After graduation, my mother and I moved back to the
> city. I had already broken up with my girlfriend, was
> away from all my other friends, and was too old for
> the youth group. However, I got a job for the summer
> in a restaurant to save money for college in the fall.
>
> I ended up going to the same college that my older
> sister had been going to. She was already a senior by
> the time I entered as a freshman. We had always been
> close, but it was extra special having her nearby.
>
> I tried to find a church to attend. I went to the
> baptist church near campus that was the same baptist
> denomination as my youth group church. Unfortunately,
> it was completely different. At the time, they
> were between pastors, and had the elderly elders
> taking turns giving the sermons. I went as often as I
> could -- suffering through the terribly dry sermons.
> Not a friendly face in the crowd! After going pretty
> regularly for several months, one of the other elders
> asked if this was my "first time"?? I got frustrated
> and vowed never to return.
>
> My dorm life was not any better. We had
> apartment-style dorms so I had 2 roommates. Somehow I
> ended up rooming with 2 much older freshmen -- both in
> their mid-20s. They had no patience for my innocence.
> One was
> a pot-head and the other was an artist -- drawing
> sketches of nude women in pornographic positions all
> over the room! Why did I always have such a crappy
> "home" life -- even away from home!!
>
> I signed up for a campus bible study. It was
> student-lead and affiliated with one of the campus
> ministries. It was pretty good, but I ended up with
> more questions than answers. The girl who led it was
> pretty inexperienced and did not have many answers.
> So I was left with no chruch life, no home life. I
> ended up getting a girlfriend who, again, wanted a
> much more physical relationship than I was ready for.
> She was not very strong in her faith either
> (Epsicopalian). We went from heavy kissing to heavy
> petting, but I refused to let it go farther -- though
> she made it quite clear that she wanted more!!
>
> I ended up going to parties and DRINKING!! I never
> drank before college, just a few sips of beer. Now I
> drank to get drunk. Once I got so "wasted" I twisted
> my ankle falling down stairs and didn't even realize
> it until morning, when it was all swollen up!!
>
> I eventually was able to get a different roommate. He
> was effeminate, though would not admit to being gay. I
> was intrigued and disgusted by him at the same time.
> His being there forced me to look at my own issues:
> Was I gay??
>
> Around this time I started attending a Methodist
> church. I had some friends who attended there, and
> though the sermons were somewhat dry, they had a nice
> choir that I was able to join. I also had started
> attending the large group meetings for the campus
> ministry I spoke of earler. This was much more to my
> liking! I was actually getting spiritually fed!!
>
> My Junior year I became even more involved in the
> ministry. I helped with bible studies and helped
> organize the large group meetings. By this time, I had
> my own apartment off campus. The ministry was planning
> on going to a missions conference in the mid-west. We
> raised money in different ways for tickets and
> airfare.  I mentioned this to my pastor, who seemed
> very friendly and approachable. He said he would like
> to discuss it more. He suggested coming over to my
> place. I was thrilled to have him over! He was someone
> I thought I could look up to. Even though I was not
> best housekeeper in the world, he was very gracious.
> He made me feel at ease.  We spoke about the
> conference, and then he offered to give me a shoulder
> massage.  I thought that was strange, but I didn't
> mind it. He slowly worked his way down, eventually
> touching my genitals. I then realized what he was
> really there for and asked him to leave.  I was in
> shock.  Was I gay?  Did he see something in me that
> made him think that is what I wanted? Was that
> something I wanted? I sobbed for hours. I felt dirty.
> I took a bath and scrubbed for hours, but still felt
> dirty. I told no one.
>
> I was able to raise enough money for the mission
> conference and while there, felt God's call to some
> kind of full time mission work. Once I returned, I
> knew I needed another church. I started going to the
> Four Square (Charismatic) Church that my Campus
> ministry leader attended. This church was very alive.
> Worship was full and deep.  I truly felt God's
> presence.  I had a good friend (female) in the campus
> ministry who also attended the church. She could sense
> something was wrong and questioned why I left my other
> church so abruptly. I eventually told her everything.
> It was a relief to tell another person. She also told
> me that he should be confronted. He may be doing the
> same thing to other youg men in his church.  I had
> never thought of that.  I talked to my new pastor
> about it.  He was hesitant since they were separate
> denominations.  He felt it might be more apporopriate
> for my campus ministry leader and I to confront him.
> This was also a little sticky because my leader's wife
> had grown up in that church and her parents still
> attended! We agreed to confront him, which we did. He
> was very red-faced and denied the meeting ever took
> place. We did not push the matter any further.
>
> I went through a little counseling with this new pastor, assuring me
> that I wasn't "gay" even though I had feelings and had now been
> "molested". I really grew spiritually at this new church and through
> my involvement with the campus ministry. Eventually our pastor left to
> plant a new church in another state and a new pastor was brought in.
> Soon after that I had heard that one of the teens in my church had a
> friend who was going to the Methodist church.  The pastor there (the
> same one) was counseling him that it was perfectly alright for him to
> have sex with his girlfriend, that the Bible didn't really address
> today's current culture!! I knew what was happening!  He was trying to
> "seduce" this boy with lies in order to gain his trust.  I knew he had
> to be stopped before he abused anyone else. I took the information to
> the new pastor.  He was fearless!! He called his superior in our
> denomination for advice, and recommended that we contact the Methodist
> bishop in the region to confront this pastor. A meeting was set up. My
> former pastor had brought his wife along for the meeting (perhaps
> thinking I would be less open if she were present). It did not deter
> me. I shared everything. He admitted to almost everything excusing it
> as "therapeutic massage" that he had taken classes in.  He even
> admitted to going below the belt-line but not to actually touching the
> genitals. The bishop was shocked that he had even admitted to that!!
> He reprimanded the minister and said it even what he *did* admit to
> was highly inappropriate. Unfortunately, the only formal "reprimand"
> he would receive would be to go through counseling (he was retiring in
> a few years) and to not be involved in any "youth" work. Despite the
> final "verdict", I felt vindicated and empowered.
>
> I eventually started dating a strong Christian girl from my campus
> ministry. I was able to share my entire story with her. She understood
> and had her own story.  She was a single mom of a 3-year-old son and
> got saved while she was pregnant. We had a very strong Christ-centered
> relationship.  We were careful not to get too heavy into the physical
> side of the relationship since that was an issue for both of us.
>
> My sisters had married by this time and my mother had re-married. My
> eldest sister, unfortunately, had married a man who was extremely
> physically abusive. I had heard a few stories of the physical abuse
> but did not realize how severe it was. She eventually started to
> receive counseling that she did not deserve the beatings and tried to
> stop the relationship. Late one night, I got a call that her husband
> had snapped, and had been stalking her.  He eventually climbed into
> her house, shot and killed her, then shot and killed himself.  She was
> only 25.  This devasted my family.  This sister was the "glue" that
> held our family together despite its dysfunction.
>
> My girlfriend was very supportive during this time, but after dating
> for a year and almost getting engaged, we felt that God was calling us
> to different places and we broke it off.
>
> My final year of college, I felt called to attend a church in a nearby
> city. It was an Assemblies of God church with a good college/career
> group. One assistant pastor there told me privately that he got a
> "Word of Knowledge" that I was being opressed by a "spirit of
> homosexuality". This was amazing since he did not know any of my
> testimony. We prayed that God would free me from this evil spirit's
> oppression, but offered me no additional help other than to find
> successful godly men (like the main pastor) to emulate. When asked
> about ministries for people who struggle, he did not seem to know of
> any, but felt that since I had never "acted out" that I really didn't
> need that type of ministry.
>
> Well, my final quarter in college was a full time internship in my
> chosen field. I could go anywhere in the country.  I applied and was
> accepted at a large university in a major East Coast city. After my
> internship, I got a full-time job in the same city.  I ended up
> working for a non-profit organization that was very politically on the
> left; regardless, I knew it would be would be an excellent opportunity
> to grow professionally and I knew I could "ignore" the politics for a
> season. Unfortunately, many on the staff there were openly gay. Though
> they did not know of my struggles (at least they did not seem to) they
> shared with me a lot of their own problems and struggles. We had a big
> "AIDS Education" push and I ended up getting quite an education on the
> lifestyle, going to government-sponsored workships that held back
> nothing in regards to the lifestyle. Unfortunately, this fed the
> longing for male companionship even more.
>
> I had found another AG church to attend. It did not have a large
> singles group, but had a nice men's ministry that had several
> activities. We attended one regional conference and one of the
> break-out sessions was "Ministering to the AIDS Epidemic". This was in
> the late 80s so this was a very "hot-button" issue at the time with a
> lot of misconceptions.  I thought for sure that the leader would show
> love and compassion and try to encourage the church to reach out to
> those who were in the gay lifestyle. I was wrong. He gave out basic
> information about the HIV virus and then proceeded to belittle gay men
> saying what "possible pleasure could they get out of anal sex?"
> proceeding to compare it with a rectal exam or a colonoscopy. I
> couldn't believe what I was hearing!! Where was the love and
> compassion??
>
> Commuting to work was another experience! I started realizing there
> was a whole sub-culture of subtle winks, nods and laughs as a way for
> men to proposition one another. I had one man go through this routine
> and I must have responded the right way because he smiled, but looked
> disappointed when I did not get off at his stop.  Another one ended up
> following me home to my apartment building. I told him I was sorry if
> I sent the wrong signals, but I was not interested. He left extremely
> dejected. These incidents seemed to confused me even more.  Was I gay?
> ? Were these men seeing something in me that I was denying myself??

While Inge, Tom, Steve, & I are diligently working on the Links
section of the website to get it current, I am please to announce a
new "face lift" of the main website (http://geocities.com/exgaylinks).

I have updated the graphics and added a few new sections including a
history of NCXDS, My Testimony (including the newest update),
Volunteer Recruiting Section, and Prayer Requests Section (Prayer
Needs for the Ministry as a whole!).

Let me know what you think about these new pages and graphic elements.

Also if you have any suggestions as to how I could further improve the
board, please feel free to post or e-mail me at ncxds @ yahoo.com.

BTW- Since this is a "free" page hosting from Yahoo, there is a
bandwidth limitation so if you get a "Temporarily Unavailable" message
from Yahoo, this means I reached the bandwidth limit for that hour.
Wait 60 minutes and try again.  It should go through.  I normally have
no problems, but whenever I do an update and announce it,  this often
"jams" the board. so please be patient.

Blessings!!

Hey everyone.
I'm new here and I just thought that I would say hi.

Hi All,

I thought I would put my 2 cents in regarding the chocolate vs
vanilla debate.

I prefer milk chocolate over dark, but white chocolate is also good.
As far as ice cream is concerned, my favorite is Haagen Daz Rum
Raisin. Plain vanilla also works, especially over hot apple pie.
Favorite cookie: oatmeal raisin
Favorite desserts: tiramisu, brownies, and cannollis

So Tom I guess I am on the vanilla team.

BTW have we strayed off topic per chance?  ;-)


Blessings,

Henry


--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Morey
<moreytom@y...> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I can get into chocolate if its not the predominant taste in
whatever contraption with which I am treating myself. Yes, the
Friendly's Snickers, Reese's Pieces or Peanut Butter cups are my
favorite sundaes. Michael, R U saying that you are not on the Vanilla
team? If so, I consider that a loss. And, sorry ladies, yes, I much
prefer vanilla ice cream, especially Breyer's with the wintergreen
flavor and plenty of vanilla beans. There's a real calming affect for
me in the bean, without any unspeakable side effects. :-) Too much
chocolate, especially during Harvest trick or treat celebrations or
Easter, gives me some serious heartburn :-o Good to hear from you
again, Michael.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> Michael <welmond@a...> wrote:
> Hi Tom and all,
>
> My preference is milk chocolate,  however I am very fond of dark
chocolate.     My parents prefer white chocolate but that is not real
chocolate.....      chocolate icecream is my favorite flavour,  and
Friendly's icecream chain has a "forbidden chocolate" flavour...
it's so good....
>
> Inge.....  chocolate chip cookies is my favorite type of cookie.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Thomas Morey
>   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:10 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Re: HI EVERYONE
>
>
>   Hiya everyone,
>
>   I'm finally back on, and what a subject to start back with! Two
years ago, believe it or not, in my "spare" time, I asked literally
everyone in my local church, which had 121 members at the time, 18
years old on up, whether they preferred chocolate, or vanilla. And
what was really unbelievable, was that 94% of the woman said
chocolate! 68% of the men said vanilla! Now, maybe it would be good to
ask those who answered chocolate, whether they preferred dark or milk
chocolate, or how about white chocolate or black and white? What do
you think?
>
>   Blessings,
>
>   Tom

Thanks for explaining that, again!!  =)
I'll see who I can scrounge up for your son to chat with.  :)  I have
some quality friends, and I only make quality friends.  So, yeah!!!
God be with you, your family, and friends!
*hugs*
Darrel

-- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
<BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
> He is not going to a religious school. It is a school of technology
to learn how to program video games and animated movies. He has never
mentioned any other gay students but I am sure you are right that
there probably are. His roommates seem to be straight and knock gays
at times. Lots of Japanese and foreign students there.
>
> He was so rejected and hurt by girls in high school that it will
take a girl who is very loving and patient and might have to make the
first moves. A relationship with God would give him more confidence to
try with girls again someday.
>
> Bridget
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Darrel Miller
>   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:34 PM
>   Subject: [ExGDBd] Question for Bridget.
>
>
>   I have a personal question for you...well, more or less of an
>   opinionated decision.
>
>   Do you think your son would have a harder time overcoming his same-sex
>   attraction in an all-male school?  Even though it might be
>   religiously-oriented, I'd say for 110% certainty, there are other gay
>   men in there.  I have a gay friend in Tennessee, whom I chat with
>   constantly, and he's going to an all-male Catholic school.  He tells
>   me a large concentration are either gay/bi.  Or at least curious.
>
>   I pray with all my heart your son will find a woman that will bring
>   him the happiness he desires, and as well, the relationship with God
>   he needs, too!!!  You're constantly in my prayers!!!!
>
>   *hugs*
>   Darrel
>
>
>
>   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
>
>   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
>   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
>   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Derrick,

A super welcome to you. So glad to have you hear. Please tell us about
your self and a little of your story. My name is Bridget Night and I
have a 21 year old son who has a same-sex attraction. Btw, Everybody, He
will be 22 this Saturday, July 3rd. If anyone would like to sent him a
birthday note, wish etc. Send it to my personal email address and I will
forward it to him. Anyway Derrick, feel free to jump in and share
anytime.

Bridget
-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick [mailto:counselorguy2001@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:53 PM
To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ExGDBd] Hello

Hey everyone.
I'm new here and I just thought that I would say hi.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for replying. I thought maybe I was alone here for a while. Yep, oatmeal
raisin cookies, just freshly baked are impossible to resist. Well, as for
straying off topic, let's tie it all in. That's what I intended by discussing
the gender correlative aspects of these wonderful sedating flavors of chocolate
and vanilla. However, I guess I'm having difficulty going any further than this,
unless I interview exclusively homosexual folks in their affections, in
comparison to the exclusively heterosexual. Anyone want to give that a shot? If
not, let's move on!

Blessings,

Tom

Henry B <borych2003@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I thought I would put my 2 cents in regarding the chocolate vs
vanilla debate.

I prefer milk chocolate over dark, but white chocolate is also good.
As far as ice cream is concerned, my favorite is Haagen Daz Rum
Raisin. Plain vanilla also works, especially over hot apple pie.
Favorite cookie: oatmeal raisin
Favorite desserts: tiramisu, brownies, and cannollis

So Tom I guess I am on the vanilla team.

BTW have we strayed off topic per chance?  ;-)


Blessings,

Henry


--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Morey
<moreytom@y...> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I can get into chocolate if its not the predominant taste in
whatever contraption with which I am treating myself. Yes, the
Friendly's Snickers, Reese's Pieces or Peanut Butter cups are my
favorite sundaes. Michael, R U saying that you are not on the Vanilla
team? If so, I consider that a loss. And, sorry ladies, yes, I much
prefer vanilla ice cream, especially Breyer's with the wintergreen
flavor and plenty of vanilla beans. There's a real calming affect for
me in the bean, without any unspeakable side effects. :-) Too much
chocolate, especially during Harvest trick or treat celebrations or
Easter, gives me some serious heartburn :-o Good to hear from you
again, Michael.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> Michael <welmond@a...> wrote:
> Hi Tom and all,
>
> My preference is milk chocolate,  however I am very fond of dark
chocolate.     My parents prefer white chocolate but that is not real
chocolate.....      chocolate icecream is my favorite flavour,  and
Friendly's icecream chain has a "forbidden chocolate" flavour...
it's so good....
>
> Inge.....  chocolate chip cookies is my favorite type of cookie.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Thomas Morey
>   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:10 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Re: HI EVERYONE
>
>
>   Hiya everyone,
>
>   I'm finally back on, and what a subject to start back with! Two
years ago, believe it or not, in my "spare" time, I asked literally
everyone in my local church, which had 121 members at the time, 18
years old on up, whether they preferred chocolate, or vanilla. And
what was really unbelievable, was that 94% of the woman said
chocolate! 68% of the men said vanilla! Now, maybe it would be good to
ask those who answered chocolate, whether they preferred dark or milk
chocolate, or how about white chocolate or black and white? What do
you think?
>
>   Blessings,
>
>   Tom




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear ExGDBd members,

A Dr. Chand, who is a devout Muslim, began sending messages to evangelize her
Islamic faith to us Christians in another discussion group. This is her E name
only. I thought that this topic in our discussions posted in this other group
would be relevant here. I hope it is and many find it beneficial. She uses New
Courier font and I am using Ariel.

Blessings,

Tom

1. Sex is a hot topic these days. It is a basic desire in human
nature. It is, however, so potent that man has always found it
difficult to control it. And because that led to immorality,
religions other than Islam have considered sex to be an impediment to moral and
spiritual progress. That is why celibacy was considered desirable for moral and
spiritual growth. Monks, nuns, Sadhus, Brahmacharis, Buddhist Bhikshus, and even
Romans Catholic clergy may be quoted as illustrations of the point that, by and
large, sex was considered as an impurity, as an evil which should best be
suppressed.

Now, what does the Bible say about sexual relations? Genesis 1: 27-28a; 2:23-25
makes it very clear that heterosexual monogamous sexual relations, better know
as the marital institution, was created by God on the sixth day, and Genesis
1:31 says that, "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good." Genesis
2:25 says that, "...the man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no
shame." Therefore, even though one of the purposes of sexual relations is for
procreation (Genesis 1:28a), the first purpose mentioned was so that God might
bless His children with such a gift that brings the most profound and
pleasurable intimacy. (Genesis 1:28a; 2:23-24) The beauty of this one flesh
union is described poetically, with such vivid and romantic imagery, for 8
chapters in Solomon's Song of Songs. Its honor and purity is cited by Hebrews
13:4. And its deep spiritual mystery and meaning is found revealed in the
relationship between the Lord Jesus Christ and His Bride, the Church (Ephesians
  5:22-33; Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-4; 22:17) This has been the mindset of
mainstream Christianity for 2 millenia, not the ascetics from monastic Roman
Catholicism, who embraced gnosticism.
2. But if that is a desirable course, mankind would come to an end in one
generation. And that could not be the intention of the Great Creator. Besides,
man would lose the affection, comfort and blissful home and family life, which
arise from a successful marriage. On the other hand, uncontrolled sex destroys
homes, families and even nations. It leads eventually to great unhappiness,
human degradation, and venereal diseases. What is worse, it leads, again, to the
prevention of human birth. The tendency among all illicit intercourse is to
avoid the birth of a child, who would need a permanent father and mother, a
permanent home, parental love and affection to grow into a healthy human being
-- sound both in body and mind. Illegitimate children or broken homes are
responsible for the alarming rise, in Western society, of juvenile delinquency,
drug addiction and hippie-ism.

You are absolutely right, Dr. Chand. The extremes of fear of sexual intimacy by
considering it a curse, and, on the other hand, an idolatrous preoccupation with
sex are like twin bulldozers that can unearth the moral and spiritual foundation
and fabric of a society. Yes, the latter is now gaining further ground in the
West, but not due to Christian teaching and living, but, rather, due to
secularization of society, which is one of the enemies of our Judeo-Christian
tradition. I'll be glad to discuss this in more detail in the latter points you
make.
3. So the extremes of celibacy and sexual promiscuity are both wrong. The via
media prescribed by Islam of sex within marriage is the best solution. The
misconception that concubinage is permissible in Islam is due to a gross
misreading of the Holy Qur'an. It is true that concubinage was practised in
Arabia before the advent of Islam. That is why some Muslims may have practised
it before it was prohibited. The Holy Qur'an ruled: "And marry off those among
you who are single, and those who are fit among your male slaves and female
slaves"(24:32). And as female slaves were also used to earn a profit for their
masters through prostitution, it was prohibited thus: "And do not compel your
slave girls to prostitution" (24:33).

Well, no, not quite, Dr. Chand. Celibacy does not necessarily condone an ascetic
view of sexuality. One who chooses celibacy may recognize its beauty and
goodness, as God made it to be, but for the sake of the higher good, they may
choose to abstain from marital relations in order to serve fully in the Church
and/or on the mission field without hindrance from more worldly matters.
(Matthew 19:11-12; 1 Corinthians 7:1-9, 25-40)

As for Islam being a prescribed solution to gnostic beliefs of ascetism and
libertinism, otherwise known as hedonism or sexual promiscuity, this certainly
is not one of the greatest weaknesses of the Islamic faith, since the faith does
uphold the basic tenets of the marital institution prescribed by God in Genesis
1 and 2. But there are still some significant questions that I have due to
problems raised from within Islam regarding this subject matter. And here they
are:

Are women equal to men according to Islam?

Islam teaches that women are inferior to men. "...and the women shall have
rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but
men have a degree over them..." Surah 2:228

In what areas are women unequal to men in Islam?

Islam teaches that women are less than equal to men in at least two major areas:

Inheritance: A woman's share is half that of a man. "To the male a portion equal
to that of two females..." Surah 4:11

Court witness: The witness of two women equals the witness of one man. "And get
two witnesses out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and
two women such as ye choose, for witness..." Surah 2:282

What is the status of a wife in relation to her husband?

Islam considers the wife a possession. "...fair in the eyes of men is the love
of things they covet: Womenm and sons; heaped-up hoards of gold and silver;
horses..." Surah 3:14

What is the extent of a husband's authority over his wife in Islam?

Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband. As a
punishment, beating the wife or abstaining from sexual relations with her is
allowed. "...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct,
admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them..." Surah 4:34 "For those
who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting of four months is
ordained; if they return, God is oft-forgiving, most merciful." Surah 2:226

What rules apply only to women regarding their appearance in public?

Islam instructs women to veil themselves always when they are outside their
homes. And, even inside their homes, in certain situations. What are the
instructions for men, if any? "And say to the believing women that they should
lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their
beauty and ornaments except what appear thereof; that they shoulds draw their
veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty..." Surah 24:31 "O prophet!
Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast
their outer garments ovber their persons (when abroad)..." Surah 33:59

How many wives may a Muslim man marry?

Islam allows polygamy. A man may marry up to four wives at one time. "...marry
women of your choice; two, three, or four..." Surah 4:3  Although the Old
Testament is replete with examples of polygamous marriages (i.e., all the wives
of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, and Solomon), it is never prescribed by the
Bible (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6), as it is by the Quran.

Extra priviledges were given to Mohammed, "The Prophet of Islam." He was allowed
unlimited wives. Mohammed had 13 wives in addition to several concubines. Ayesha
was only nine years old at the time he married her. Mohammed was fifty-three
years old. Another wife, Zaynab Bint Jahsh, was his daughter-in-law. When Zaid,
Mohammed's adopted son, saw that Mohammed desired his wife, he divorced her so
that Mohammed could marry her.

What is the sexual role of the wife in marriage according to Islam?

Islam considers the wife a sex object. "Your wives are as a tilth (a field to be
ploughed) unto you, so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Surah 2:223

Is divorce allowed in Islam?

A man can divorce his wife by oral promnouncement. The wife has no such right in
the Quran. "It may be, if he divorced you that Allah will give him in exchange
consortsd better than you..." Surah 66:5

May a man reunite with his wife after divorcing her?

When a husband has pronounced divorce 3 times on his wife, he may not lawfully
remarry her until she has married (and had sexual intercourse) and been divorced
by another man called "Al Mohalil" (the legalizer). "A divorce is only
permissible twice; after that, the parties should either hold together on
equitable terms, or separate with kindness..." Surah 2:229 "...So if a husband
divorces his wife, he can not afterr that, remarry her until after she has
married another husband, and he has divorced her, in that case there is no blame
on either of them if they reunite..." Surah 2:230

9. If sex within marriage, as prescribed by Islam, is the best
course, it might well be asked that other religions had prescribed it too; then
why has sexual immorality become so rampant particularly in the West? The answer
is that the mere prescription of marriage was not enough. Human nature being
what it is, extra-marital sexual relations were bound to arise. Other religions,
in prohibiting adultery, prescribed even death as punishment. Islam also
prohibits adultery but made the punishment more rational by prescribing a
hundred stripes in public, as punishment and public humiliation. In the case of
"those whom your right hands possess " the punishment was half that for free men
and women as already stated in para 5 above. It may be mentioned here that in
the time of the Holy Prophet, and even for some time after him, there was no
whip, and flogging was carried out by beating with a stick or with the hand or
with shoes. The culprit was not stripped naked but he was required to take off
thick clothes. It is further related that it is preferable
  to give tolerable strokes on different parts of the body so that no harm should
result to any one part, but the face and the private parts must be avoided.
(Ruh-al-Maani, Ch. 18, P 77).

10. In spite of the much severer punishment of death prescribed by the Bible for
adultery, why has this evil existed so widely among Christians whose
civilisation now dominates the world? The preponderance of women over men, after
the two recent World Wars, has made the vice almost uncontrollable. But it
existed even before on a much wider scale in the West than in the East. Why?

11. The answer lies in the fact that apart from prescribing the
punishment of death for adultery, the Bible provided no other
remedies. That even capital punishment failed to stop fornication in the western
society is due to other reasons, which may be detailed below.

12. There was no restriction among Christians on women as to how they should go
about. The result is that they mixed freely with men. There being no restriction
about dress, the women soon began to show off their bodies, as it is part of the
feminine nature to attract the male. Partial nudity, particularly on
sea-beaches, in theatres, cinemas and evening functions, and even on streets
during summer has now resulted in full nudity in films, on the stage and
elsewhere. On the other hand, there is no restriction on men either as to how
they should conduct themselves with women. But the biggest evil is the
unrestricted mixing of the two sexes. A man and a woman, if they are thrown
together, soon begin to get attracted sexually, however plain or even
unattractive the other person may be. Dancing together again excites sexual
passion.

13. What has Islam provided to meet these evils? Let us list them:a. Muslims are
required not to enter houses other than their own, without seeking permission
(24:27,28).
b. The Holy Prophet prohibited a man or a woman (who are not within the
prohibited degree of marriage such as brother and sister) to be under a roof
unless a third person within the prohibited degree is present (Bukhari 67:112).
c. The Holy Qur'an requires that if a man has to ask of a woman any goods when
she is alone in the house, it may be done from behind a curtain (33:53).
d. A woman is required to stay within her house (33:33) unless she has to go out
to the mosque or to go out for her needs such as shopping, exercise, etc.
(Bukhari 4:13 and 67:116).
e. When a woman goes out of her house, she is prohibited from making a display
of her finery (33:33,59) such as clothes and jewellery. So, she is required to
cover her body with the exception of her face and hands (24:30,31; Abu Dawood
31:30). The cover may be a plain coat or a plain Chaddar (sheet). The head
covering of a woman was particularly required to cover also her bosom (24:31).
This was in anticipation of the present day low necklines of dress or false
brassieres to make the breasts prominent.
f. As for women who are past childbearing, there is no harm if they put off the
over-garment "without displaying their adornment" (24:60). And "if they are also
modest it is better for them" (24:60).
g. When walking before men, a woman is prohibited from swinging her hips or
putting her feet down strongly so as to make her ornaments of the feet jingle
(24:31).
h. When talking to a man, the woman is required not to use "soft speech" which
may attract a man "in whose heart is a disease" (33:32).
i. Most important of all, both men and women are required to lower their gaze
when passing, or dealing with each other (24:30,31)
j. Within the home, the servants are required to ask permission to enter the
bedroom (i) before the morning prayer, (ii) "When you put off your clothes for
the heat of the noon," i.e., during afternoon rest, and (iii) after the last
prayer at night (24:58).

14. For the situation created by the preponderance of the number of women over
that of men, Islam has permitted polygamy. In such an imbalance, heightened in
the West by the two World Wars, even some of the Western thinkers are now
advocating polygamy as the only remedy, e.g., "A case for Polygamy" by Judge
Lindsay - a British jurist. Or, as an American article put it "half a husband is
better than no husband" if the chastity of women is to be given a fair chance to
survive, if the institution of marriage is to be saved, and if illegitimate
children are to be eliminated.

16. It will thus be seen that Islam prohibits:
a. The unnecessary mixing of sexes.
b. Nudity and the display of personal charms.
c. All avoidable opportunities for men and women to go wrong.
d. Sex outside marriage.

17. Societies which have not observed the above restrictions,
particularly in the West, are now immersed in the worst possible laxity of
sexual morality, rapidly spreading venereal diseases [Note: AIDS may be quoted
here!], ("The Readers' Digest" of October 1972 estimates two and a half million
of new cases every year in U.S.A. alone) and sexual perversion. The institution
of marriage is threatened with extinction. Even when marriages take place, they
soon come to grief. Homes are broken, even if divorce (now so common) does not
take place, and the children are ruined. Juvenile delinquency, drug addiction,
hippie-ism, and insubordination are now common. The resulting unhappiness to
parents as well as to their children is leading to an alarming rise in mental
disorders. To the extent that we are following Western culture, we are also
going down the hill. Tropical temperaments, being not as phlegmatic as the
Western ones of cooler clime, we are likely to sink faster, unless, of course,
we adopt the Islamic code of life.

Dr. Chand, this discussion is probably the most relevant of all in what I
consider now to be a debate, although you may consider the nature of my
correspondence in a different light. I'm so glad that you are bringing up this
critical issue. Depending on how a culture proceeds to establish civil laws and
liberties in addressing the marital institution and sexuality, let alone other
critical issues, such as the form and nature of government in relation to the
society and church, law reinforcement, crime, economics, education, health, and
recreation, this will determine whether one of the two pillars of society, the
state, will provide, or not provide, a healthy cohesive societal structure. The
second pillar is the church, which provides, or not provides, society's
theological and philosophical foundations, purpose, and spirit. In other words,
the state should be the body of society, with its proper operations, but the
church the mind and heart of a society.

If, as you were saying, the reason why Western society has become so lax and
immoral regarding sexuality and upholding the marital institution because there
are no Biblical precepts and stipulations beyond consequences for adultery, then
why did Christianity have such a major impact through the deterioration of the
Roman Empire in transforming this immoral and corrupt empire, as well as the
barbaric societies of the Scythians, Cretans, Goths, Visigoths, Vandals, Gauls,
Franks, and all other societies on the European continent from 100 AD until
approximately the beginning of the 20th century, turning the worst of the worst
into godly, submissive and peaceful cultural groups, and then later the
continents of the Americas and Australia?

There are four major factors why the West is experiencing a spiritual implosion
and disinegration, in contrast to central and south Africa, the Far East
(especially China), and much of Latin America which are undergoing cultural
transformation by the power of the Holy Spirit, admist their respective
historically inherited problems, much like what happened to the great Roman
Empire of antiquity. These factors are: 1) the separation of human reason and
faith in God, 2) an ineffective relationship between the Church and the state,
3) the excesses of individualism, and 4) Western Church's ineptitude so far to
protect its great institutions of marriage, family, and even Herself, from the
otherwise blessings of prosperity and a high technological society.

The seeds that were planted creating the beginnings of this disintegration of
Western society actually come from within the Church Herself, way back during
the beginning of the Renaissance period of European history, the great apologist
Thomas Aquinas was responsible for separating reason from faith, the natural
from the supernatural, and therefore, in inchoate form, the separation of life
into the secular and the religious. Although the Renaissance placed a human face
on the medieval Church and society, this Tomistic separation was a definite
onset of the disease of secular humanism. During and after the Great
Reformation, this Tomistic view, was unpopularized by much of the Western
European nations, through these Biblical and reformed Christian ideas,
especially through the teachings of Calvin, Zwingli, Luther, and Knox. Civil
law, the pursuit of the sciences, and the economy were all greatly influenced by
the Christian religion, where the Tomistic dichotomy of faith and reason was
  not practiced, such as with the great scientist and philsopher, John Newton.
However, many of these societies turned into legalistic totalitarian
church-states, that lost their heart and relevance during the industrial
revolutionary era, persecuting those religious sects which were addressing the
needs of the poor and the commoner, such as in Wesleyanism and Puritanism.

It was with this spirit and love for human integrity, the truth and morality
that motivated most of the founding fathers of the United States of America in
the 18th century. In their focus to make sure that no church denomination had
preeminence in state matters, such as with the persecutory Anglican church in
the United Kingdom, and that the state did not intrude on the freedoms of
religion, the American doctrine of the separation of the church and state was
born. May I add that all during these times in Western Europe and North American
history that civil laws existed which were either Church controlled ordinances,
such as in Anglicanism, similar to what you have described in section 13
regarding Islamic law, but not quite as severe, in dealing with sexual roles and
mores, or were established, interpreted, and enforced by "churched" state
officials that were greatly influenced by the many church denominations, whom
they represented, such as the American colonies of the 18th
  century.

As a whole, the Church in continental Europe did not recover from its
irrelevancy and legalism after adopting the church-state model of governing.
During the industrial revolution age, the Church took on the Tomistic view of
faith and reason, which just led to secular humanism and science becoming the
"religions" of most continental Europeans, with the overwhelming majority not
attending church even today. However, the United Kingdom was spared, due to the
eventual accomodations to these religious sects, that led to a period called the
Great Awakening of the British culture. In America, the doctrine of the
separation of church and state, although no where found in the Declaration of
Independence or the US Constitution, was understood to mean that the church
would be protected from the intrusions from the state, including paying taxes,
and that the Church would take on a preserving affect on society, like salt, by
influencing indirectly through "churched" state officials, and through
  representing their "churched" constituents. American society went through two
church revivals and cultural renewals in its short history partly because of
this relationship bewtwen Church and state. The doctrine of the separation of
church and state was never meant to protect the state from religious and church
influence, since the Church was understood to have a positive and godly
preservation affect on the state and society.

Unfortunately, during the late 40's, the judicial branch of American government
saw otherwise, due to these continental European Tomistic affects on mainstream
American churches and the extremes of American individualism, fueled by a high
technological society, which was losing its value in, and need for, extended
family members, neighborhood, church and society. The Tomistic philosophy of the
secular/religious dichotomy of life through the separation of faith and reason
then became the lifeblood of civil law in the American society. Unfortunately,
because of strong pietistic/Baptistic/separatist views that became the mindset
with most evangelical Christians during this time, from the 40's through the
70's, little was done to stop this trend. This led to the eventual insanity that
we have today with abortion on demand, and the breakdown of the great
institutions of marriage, family and the Church, through legalization of all
forms of sexual immorality.

It is through Christian activism, as well as the continual preaching of the
gospel of Jesus Christ to change the hearts of individuals, that will bring
renewal to the American society, by restrengthening its two pillars, the state
and the Church. This is done through a renewal of mind and heart of the Church
by the Holy Spirit, and the reconstruction of appropriate civil laws and proper
societal structure by the state. The West does not need a new code of life,
whether through Islam, Christianity or another religion. That would be just
fixing hanging pictures on a sinking ship! It needs transformation, from the
inside out, from the Holy Spirit. In fact, so does the Islamic states, because
sexual immorality is rampant among the people of the Middle East as well, it is
just very covert, although the marital, family and mosque institutions are
intact. This is just a form of godliness, but a very unfortunate denial of the
real power to transform and save people from their sexual sins of
  immorality. In fact, Jesus's words in Matthew 15:10-20 makes it quite clear
that the Law is not effective in itself to stop sexual immorality. Colossians
2:23 confirms this, saying that these laws and regulations, "...lack any value
in restraining sensual indulgence." In fact, Romans 5:20 makes it clear that the
Law in itself, will actually stir up the wicked heart of men, and unduely
influence them to sin all the more! Then, there's all the other problems that
the Islamic states have, such as in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, and
Pakistan, that the West doesn't have, or isn't known for, such as human rights
violations, oppression, persecution, terrorism, and economic bankruptcy.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL! Yeah, Darrel scrounge up somebody, would ya? You are cute!!

Bridget
www.1stbooks.com/bookview/12053
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Darrel Miller
   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 4:53 PM
   Subject: Re: [ExGDBd] Question for Bridget.


   Thanks for explaining that, again!!  =)
   I'll see who I can scrounge up for your son to chat with.  :)  I have
   some quality friends, and I only make quality friends.  So, yeah!!!
   God be with you, your family, and friends!
   *hugs*
   Darrel

   -- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
   <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
   > He is not going to a religious school. It is a school of technology
   to learn how to program video games and animated movies. He has never
   mentioned any other gay students but I am sure you are right that
   there probably are. His roommates seem to be straight and knock gays
   at times. Lots of Japanese and foreign students there.
   >
   > He was so rejected and hurt by girls in high school that it will
   take a girl who is very loving and patient and might have to make the
   first moves. A relationship with God would give him more confidence to
   try with girls again someday.
   >
   > Bridget
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: Darrel Miller
   >   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   >   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:34 PM
   >   Subject: [ExGDBd] Question for Bridget.
   >
   >
   >   I have a personal question for you...well, more or less of an
   >   opinionated decision.
   >
   >   Do you think your son would have a harder time overcoming his same-sex
   >   attraction in an all-male school?  Even though it might be
   >   religiously-oriented, I'd say for 110% certainty, there are other gay
   >   men in there.  I have a gay friend in Tennessee, whom I chat with
   >   constantly, and he's going to an all-male Catholic school.  He tells
   >   me a large concentration are either gay/bi.  Or at least curious.
   >
   >   I pray with all my heart your son will find a woman that will bring
   >   him the happiness he desires, and as well, the relationship with God
   >   he needs, too!!!  You're constantly in my prayers!!!!
   >
   >   *hugs*
   >   Darrel
   >
   >
   >
   >   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
   >
   >   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
   >   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
   >
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   >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christa, Bridget and all,

RE: >That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
it??

Sorry, that will be in Asheville not Raleigh. But at least I got the
state right.  ;-)

The 30th Annual Exodus Freedom Conference - the week of July 19-23,
2005 at Ridgecrest Conference Center in Asheville, North Carolina.


Blessings,

Henry


--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "ctickle777"
<ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
it??
> Hawaii...it's on my ten-year list! : ) We could always meet up
> there!!! : ) LOL.
> Wouldn't that be something...(Okay, it was a dreamy thought, wasn't
> it?) Then again, when we get to heaven, we'll all be together and I
> can't imagine a better "meeting place" than that!!
>
> Christa
>
> --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
> <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Christa,
> >
> > Henry told me you, Alan, and some others are in North Carolina
and
> that next years Exodus Conference will be in Raleigh? Maybe we can
> all get together then. Hawaii is always been my dream.

Hi Christa,

I appreciate you spirit about this. I am sure that your husband, like myself,
would not desire our wives to have worldly knowledge about some things. I
appreciate the fact that Dee is naive about most of the things that occurred
with me while I lived in the Gay life style. I am all the more thankful that she
has never probed me to find out either. She probably could not have handled it
very well. Blessings sister. Tim Way

ctickle777 <ctickle777@...> wrote:
Okay, I'll take your word for it, Tim. I'll leave that curiosity at
Jesus' feet. That's probably why I was hesitant to search it...I
didn't want to run the risk of pulling up something displeasing to
God. I've read the acronym S&M a lot in personal testimonies but
never have I seen it actually spelled out, I didn't know. I've never
seen the term B&D. Thanks for responding Tim! : ) It's crazy b/c I
graduated from high school not knowing what a keg was...(beer keg
that is) so I'm fortunate in a sense that I am uninformed about
certain things. Can you picture me sitting at a fraternity house
hanging out with a few friends, and saying, "What's a keg?" That
honest question brought about a round of laughs to say the least.
Unfortunately, though, the keg and I became much acquainted prior to
my turn toward Jesus!

Instead of allowing Satan to spark curiosity, now that I am sure it
is not good, I will praise God for my ignorance regarding these two
things!

Blessings,

Christa

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
<inotheway@y...> wrote:
> Hi Christa,
>
>      Sister that is one of those areas of what the Bible calls the
deeper things of Satan. You are better off not knowing about S&M or
B&D. Your brother in Christ, Tim Way
>
> ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M
mean?
> I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I
don't
> want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total idiot
> but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess was
> sex and marriage...am I right?
>
> Christa
>
>
>
> Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
>
> The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
> NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
> Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
> Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
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<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Henry,

It sounds like a blast. My birthday is July 22, so we can all celebrate it
together.

Bridget
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Henry B
   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:12 PM
   Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: Bridget & the 2005 Exodus Conference


   Christa, Bridget and all,

   RE: >That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
   it??

   Sorry, that will be in Asheville not Raleigh. But at least I got the
   state right.  ;-)

   The 30th Annual Exodus Freedom Conference - the week of July 19-23,
   2005 at Ridgecrest Conference Center in Asheville, North Carolina.


   Blessings,

   Henry


   --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "ctickle777"
   <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
   > That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
   it??
   > Hawaii...it's on my ten-year list! : ) We could always meet up
   > there!!! : ) LOL.
   > Wouldn't that be something...(Okay, it was a dreamy thought, wasn't
   > it?) Then again, when we get to heaven, we'll all be together and I
   > can't imagine a better "meeting place" than that!!
   >
   > Christa
   >
   > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
   > <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
   > >
   > > Christa,
   > >
   > > Henry told me you, Alan, and some others are in North Carolina
   and
   > that next years Exodus Conference will be in Raleigh? Maybe we can
   > all get together then. Hawaii is always been my dream.



   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@...

   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries

   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:

   Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What wonderful insight, Tim. I agree that things we have
individually dealt with spiritually, those things that are no longer
affecting us, are in the past and they should remain there, for
everyone's sake. Great input! Thanks!

Christa

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
<inotheway@y...> wrote:
> Hi Christa,
>
> I appreciate you spirit about this. I am sure that your husband,
like myself, would not desire our wives to have worldly knowledge
about some things. I appreciate the fact that Dee is naive about
most of the things that occurred with me while I lived in the Gay
life style. I am all the more thankful that she has never probed me
to find out either. She probably could not have handled it very
well. Blessings sister. Tim Way
>
> ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> Okay, I'll take your word for it, Tim. I'll leave that curiosity
at
> Jesus' feet. That's probably why I was hesitant to search it...I
> didn't want to run the risk of pulling up something displeasing to
> God. I've read the acronym S&M a lot in personal testimonies but
> never have I seen it actually spelled out, I didn't know. I've
never
> seen the term B&D. Thanks for responding Tim! : ) It's crazy b/c I
> graduated from high school not knowing what a keg was...(beer keg
> that is) so I'm fortunate in a sense that I am uninformed about
> certain things. Can you picture me sitting at a fraternity house
> hanging out with a few friends, and saying, "What's a keg?" That
> honest question brought about a round of laughs to say the least.
> Unfortunately, though, the keg and I became much acquainted prior
to
> my turn toward Jesus!
>
> Instead of allowing Satan to spark curiosity, now that I am sure
it
> is not good, I will praise God for my ignorance regarding these
two
> things!
>
> Blessings,
>
> Christa
>
> --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
> <inotheway@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Christa,
> >
> >      Sister that is one of those areas of what the Bible calls
the
> deeper things of Satan. You are better off not knowing about S&M
or
> B&D. Your brother in Christ, Tim Way
> >
> > ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> > Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M
> mean?
> > I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I
> don't
> > want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total
idiot
> > but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess
was
> > sex and marriage...am I right?
> >
> > Christa
> >
> >
> >
> > Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
> >
> > The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
> > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
> >
> > Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
> >
> > Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
> <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
> <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
> >
> >
> > .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
> <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> >
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> Service.
> >
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> >
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> >
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>
>
>
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>
> The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
> NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
> Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
> Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
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Anyone in Houston.Delaing  with this  change isn't  easy on my    own and was
wondering  if there  are   any members in Houston
I can potentially talk to via phone and maybe dinner or just  friends.----
Original Message -----
   From: ctickle777
   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:53 PM
   Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: To Christa, from Tim about things to let our minds dwell
on.


   What wonderful insight, Tim. I agree that things we have
   individually dealt with spiritually, those things that are no longer
   affecting us, are in the past and they should remain there, for
   everyone's sake. Great input! Thanks!

   Christa

   --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
   <inotheway@y...> wrote:
   > Hi Christa,
   >
   > I appreciate you spirit about this. I am sure that your husband,
   like myself, would not desire our wives to have worldly knowledge
   about some things. I appreciate the fact that Dee is naive about
   most of the things that occurred with me while I lived in the Gay
   life style. I am all the more thankful that she has never probed me
   to find out either. She probably could not have handled it very
   well. Blessings sister. Tim Way
   >
   > ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
   > Okay, I'll take your word for it, Tim. I'll leave that curiosity
   at
   > Jesus' feet. That's probably why I was hesitant to search it...I
   > didn't want to run the risk of pulling up something displeasing to
   > God. I've read the acronym S&M a lot in personal testimonies but
   > never have I seen it actually spelled out, I didn't know. I've
   never
   > seen the term B&D. Thanks for responding Tim! : ) It's crazy b/c I
   > graduated from high school not knowing what a keg was...(beer keg
   > that is) so I'm fortunate in a sense that I am uninformed about
   > certain things. Can you picture me sitting at a fraternity house
   > hanging out with a few friends, and saying, "What's a keg?" That
   > honest question brought about a round of laughs to say the least.
   > Unfortunately, though, the keg and I became much acquainted prior
   to
   > my turn toward Jesus!
   >
   > Instead of allowing Satan to spark curiosity, now that I am sure
   it
   > is not good, I will praise God for my ignorance regarding these
   two
   > things!
   >
   > Blessings,
   >
   > Christa
   >
   > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, Tim Way
   > <inotheway@y...> wrote:
   > > Hi Christa,
   > >
   > >      Sister that is one of those areas of what the Bible calls
   the
   > deeper things of Satan. You are better off not knowing about S&M
   or
   > B&D. Your brother in Christ, Tim Way
   > >
   > > ctickle777 <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
   > > Okay guys! I have a bit of an odd question. What does the S&M
   > mean?
   > > I've heard it used here a few times and to be quite honest, I
   > don't
   > > want to google it! And I didn't want you to think me a total
   idiot
   > > but for the life of me, I don't know what it means!!! My guess
   was
   > > sex and marriage...am I right?
   > >
   > > Christa
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
   > >
   > > The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
   > > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
   > >
   > > Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
   > >
   > > Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
   > <http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
   > <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
   > >
   > >
   > > .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
   > <http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
   > >
   > >
   > > ---------------------------------
   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >
   > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
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   > >
   > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   > > exgaydiscussionboard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   > >
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   > Service.
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   > >
   > > ---------------------------------
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   > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
   > >
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   >
   >
   >
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   > NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
   >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I LOVE IT!

Thank you so much, Bridget, for sharing this with us.

Susan

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
<BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>   WAIT
> By Russell Kelfer
>
>
>
> Desperately, helplessly, longingly, I cried;
> Quietly, patiently, lovingly, God replied.
> I pled and I wept for a clue to my fate...
> and the Master so gently said," Wait."
>
>
> "Wait? you say wait?" my indignant reply.
> "Lord, I need answers, I need to know why!"
> Is your hand shortened? Or have you not heard?
> By faith I have asked, and I'm claiming your Word.
>
>
> My future and all to which I relate..
> hangs in the balance and you tell me to Wait?"
> I'm needing a 'yes', a go-ahead sign.
> Or even a 'no,' to which I'll resign.
>
>
> You promised, dear Lord, that if we believe,
> We need but to ask, and we shall receive.
> Lord, I've been asking, and this is my cry:
> I'm weary of asking! I need a reply.
>
>
> Then quietly, softly, I learned of my fate
> as my Master replied again, "Wait."
> So I slumped in my chair, defeated and taut,
> and grumbled to God, "So, I'm waiting...for what?"
>
>
> He seemed then to kneel, and His eyes met with mine..
> And He tenderly said, "I could give you a sign.
> I could shake the heavens and darken the sun.
> I could raise the dead and cause mountains to run.
>
>
> I could give all you seek and pleased you would be.
> You'd have what you want, but you wouldn't know Me.
> You'd not know the depth of My love for each saint.
> You'd not know the power that I give to the faint.
>
>
> You'd not learn to see through clouds of despair;
> You'd not learn to trust just by knowing I'm there.
> You'd not know the joy of resting in Me...
> When darkness and silence are all you can see.
>
>
> You'd never experience the fullness of love
> When the peace of My spirit descends like a dove.
> You would know that I give, and I save, for a start,
> But you'd not know the depth of the beat of My heart.
>
>
> The glow of My comfort late into the night,
> The faith that I give when you walk without sight.
> The depth that's beyond getting just what you ask
> From an infinite God who makes what you have last.
>
>
> You'd never know should your pain quickly flee,
> What it means that My grace is sufficient for thee.
> Yes, your dearest dreams overnight would come true,
> But oh, the loss if I lost what I'm doing in you.
>
>
> So, be silent, my child, and in time you will see
> That the greatest of gifts is to truly know me.
> And though oft My answers seem terribly late,
> My most precious answer of all is still "WAIT"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The 2005 Exodus conference will be in Asheville, NC? WOW!! That is in
driving distance from me (I live in Tennessee).

I am so excited. This is do-able. NC is a LOT closer than California!
I can hardly wait until July 2005.

Susan

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Henry B"
<borych2003@y...> wrote:
> Christa, Bridget and all,
>
> RE: >That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh,
wouldn't
> it??
>
> Sorry, that will be in Asheville not Raleigh. But at least I got
the
> state right.  ;-)
>
> The 30th Annual Exodus Freedom Conference - the week of July 19-23,
> 2005 at Ridgecrest Conference Center in Asheville, North Carolina.
>
>
> Blessings,
>
> Henry
>
>
> --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "ctickle777"
> <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
> > That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
> it??
> > Hawaii...it's on my ten-year list! : ) We could always meet up
> > there!!! : ) LOL.
> > Wouldn't that be something...(Okay, it was a dreamy thought,
wasn't
> > it?) Then again, when we get to heaven, we'll all be together and
I
> > can't imagine a better "meeting place" than that!!
> >
> > Christa
> >
> > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
> > <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Christa,
> > >
> > > Henry told me you, Alan, and some others are in North Carolina
> and
> > that next years Exodus Conference will be in Raleigh? Maybe we
can
> > all get together then. Hawaii is always been my dream.

Hi Bridget,

My birthday is July 27 -- the conference will be over by then, but
I'll count the conference as an early celebration. Anyway, our
birthdays are close together!

Susan

--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
<BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
>
> Henry,
>
> It sounds like a blast. My birthday is July 22, so we can all
celebrate it together.
>
> Bridget
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Henry B
>   To: exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:12 PM
>   Subject: [ExGDBd] Re: Bridget & the 2005 Exodus Conference
>
>
>   Christa, Bridget and all,
>
>   RE: >That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh,
wouldn't
>   it??
>
>   Sorry, that will be in Asheville not Raleigh. But at least I got
the
>   state right.  ;-)
>
>   The 30th Annual Exodus Freedom Conference - the week of July 19-
23,
>   2005 at Ridgecrest Conference Center in Asheville, North
Carolina.
>
>
>   Blessings,
>
>   Henry
>
>
>   --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "ctickle777"
>   <ctickle777@y...> wrote:
>   > That would be awesome to meet up at Exodus in Raleigh, wouldn't
>   it??
>   > Hawaii...it's on my ten-year list! : ) We could always meet up
>   > there!!! : ) LOL.
>   > Wouldn't that be something...(Okay, it was a dreamy thought,
wasn't
>   > it?) Then again, when we get to heaven, we'll all be together
and I
>   > can't imagine a better "meeting place" than that!!
>   >
>   > Christa
>   >
>   > --- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget Night"
>   > <BridgetNight123@h...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Christa,
>   > >
>   > > Henry told me you, Alan, and some others are in North Carolina
>   and
>   > that next years Exodus Conference will be in Raleigh? Maybe we
can
>   > all get together then. Hawaii is always been my dream.
>
>
>
>   Questions on the group?  contact founder directly at: ncxds@y...
>
>   The Ex-Gay Discussion Board is a ministry of:
>   NCXDS Ex-Gay Internet Ministries
>
>   Feel free to link to these pages on your own website:
>
>   Web: <http://geocities.com/exgaylinks> | Discussion List:
<http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
<http://chat.yahoo.com/?club=exgaydiscussionboard>
>
>
>   .yahoo.com/clubs/exgaydiscussionboard> | Chat:
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>
>
>
>
>
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