Buddy and all,

RE: It really doesn't matter how one developed same-sex attraction
or a desire for BDSM (though I think Romans 1:18-32 provides the
answer): it matters what you're doing about it.

I don't exactly agree. Yes, it does matter what you are doing about it
right now. However it also matters to know the reasons (or at least
some of the causes) of one's SSA. Yes, Holy Spirit may reveal this
to a person through prayer, but He also uses Christian counselors
and yes (sorry Tim-I disagree with you on this one) Christian
Psychology to reveal these things. For instance, if a person has a
broken relationship with a same sex parent, then part of the healing
process may be to mend that relationship. Or if a person was raped
or molested as a child, then forgiving that person is part of the
healing process. In some people childhood vows play a strong role,
these need to be renounced. These are just a few things that came
to mind.

So cause and dealing with that cause IS important. No, we may never
know every aspect of why we have SSA but this is a process. The Lord
may choose to zap us and make us completely whole and heterosexual
in an instant. But too many of us have prayed and prayed and prayed
and the desires were still there. God can heal us instantly, but
the road to be being made complete is usually a long one. One that
involves some intraspection.

Frankly I am not interested in a life of just abstinence but
one of transformation to God's destiny and purpose in my life.

I have seen many people in which healing and transformation came only
after they dealt with the cause. So I am not backing down on this
issue.

But I do agree that this has to be a partnership between us and the
Holy Spirit. We need to allow Him to be the paraclete and counselor
in revealing those things that need mending in our lives. God uses
people to speak into our lives be it pastors, friends, counselors
or Christian psychiatrists. These people help point out those areas.
Many times we are blinded by the obvious. A person who is in sin
or coming out of a sinful lifestyle has a warped perspective that
has been clouded and twisted by that sin. An objective viewpoint is
advantageous or absolutely necessary in most cases. This is a
proactive search. Yes we do need to submit to God and resist the
devil and as Buddy put not just whine about falling again.

When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, God didn't just miraculously
remove his grave cloths. But instead he chose to use flesh and blood
humans to help release him from his "bondage". (John 11:44)
So even when we are born again, we may need others to help release us
from what still holds us captive.


Henry


"Along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness
into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are
the things I will do; I will not forsake them." Is. 42:16



--- In exgaydiscussionboard@yahoogroups.com, "Chancellor Carlyle
Roberts, II" <BuddyChan2@m...> wrote:
> I agree that we -- especially those involved in ex-gay ministries
> that use a lot of psychology -- tend to get so focused on causes
that
> they never seem to get to solutions. It really doesn't matter how
> one developed same-sex attraction or a desire for BDSM (though I
> think Romans 1:18-32 provides the answer): it matters what you're
> doing about it.
>
> I frequently see people in groups like this one whining and
> complaining about how they're continually falling or how
> they "struggle" with same-sex attraction. But, when you ask
> them "What are you doing about it?" they act like a bunch of
> helpless, whiney babies. They wallow in the mire and want you to
> climb in and wallow with them. They want you to feel sorry for
them
> and throw them a pity party. When you throw them the rope to help
> them climb out of the mire, they won't take it. They want God to
> just come along and magically transport them out of the mire and
take
> the attraction and the temptation to sin away: they don't want to
> exert the effort needed to grab hold of the rope and climb out.
When
> you remind them about how the New Testament compares the struggle
> against sin as warfare and that we are given armor and a weapon
with
> which to fight, they don't want to hear it. They don't want to
hear
> about things THEY can do to gain/maintain victory (with the Lord's
> help, of course, as we can do nothing on our own). The scripture
> tells us to submit to God, RESIST the devil and He will flee: it
> doesn't tell us to sit back on our blessed assurance and do
nothing.
> Gaining and maintaining victory over sin is an ongoing battle that
we
> have to fight. The scripture tells us to abstain from every
> appearance of evil, not to sit back and just let ourselves indulge.

> Yes, God gives us what we need in order to be victorious but He
still
> requires us to fight the fight. As Hebrews 12:4 says, "Ye have not
> yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin." So, we need to ask
> ourselves: Are we soldiers or are we sissies? Are we victims or
are
> we victors?
>
> If I sin, it's my own fault. I have no one or nothing to blame but
> ME. Like everyone else, I have to get my victories day by day --
and
> sometimes even hour by hour. I have to not only put on the armor
and
> take up my sword (the word of God), I have to actually get out
there
> onto the battle field and fight.
>
> So, as you said, "Learning of our creator and the provisions he
gave
> us to escape these things...is far more important and productive."