I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is, with
Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made Sindarinised,
and if possible, give me the word for the interrogative adverb "why"?

Thanx for answering.

As for the perfect tense, I've re-read the course material again and think I've
found my answer there.
I think the perfect tense of airita- should be airiti"e (sorry, still don't know
how to give the e the diaresis) and hence for anta- it should be anti"e ? Would
love some feedback on that.

More questions appear along the line:
In the lessons it clearly states that the passive participle agrees in number,
but I can't find the answer to the question if that's also the case for the
active participle.

So in the sentence: 'The singing bird' I guess it translates as ' i lindala
aiw"e ' but for 'The singing birds' will it become ' i lindala aiwi'  OR 'i
lindal"e aiwi' ??


Also, a few questions regarding verbs. Please correct me where I'm wrong:

leryuvan - I shall release
lindanen - I sang (I don't have a clue how to form past tense from the verb
lind-)
metyuvan - I shall end
ororien? - I have urged (seriously no clue)
ulien - I have poured
uluvan - I shall pour

Also, the verb Palu- (to expand) gives me some trouble. I've written down the
following but I'm totally unsure if this is correct:
p'aluan
paluin
palunen
apaluien
paluvan

- what would be the perfect tense of ista- (to know)

Thanx for helping me ;-) and merry christmas and a happy new year!

That's great! Merry Christmas to you too!

"Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...> escribió:

>In accordance with the well-established tradition of Ardalambion
>Christmas Updates, I am proud to announce that the page for the
>grand(iose) Neo-Quenya New Testament translation project now also
>includes a working link for the Gospel of Matthew:
>
>http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/nqnt.htm
>
>Admittedly, parts of the back-translation into English were prepared in
>
>a hurry. I hope there aren't any _really_ embarrassing errors.
>
>Of the four gospels, this only leaves Luke, the longest and most
>challenging of them all (the writer employs a greater vocabulary than
>the other three gospel-writers combined). Well, I guess I have twelve
>months to deliver ...
>
>With this addition, the NQNT project inches really close to the
>half-way
>point, with 48 % of the New Testament translated. As I well know, there
>
>are numerous inconsistencies in the text, anything from the preferred
>Quenyarization of "Herod" (I now think _Herol_ is better than _Heror_)
>to which neologism is matched to "donkey" and which one to "colt". But
>as a draft it will have to do.
>
>Sooner or later I shall have to revise the whole thing from beginning
>to
>end (no small task, actually). But in the meantime, please enjoy these
>drafts for what they are worth.
>
>- HKF

--
Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Helge

What an incredibly awe inspiring work which I will study.  look forward to your
updates and the site is very helpful for the work I am currently doing.

Merye Turuhalme to you!

Best Andy

Sent from the IPAD of Andrew Higgins

Andrew Higgins Head of Development and Membership
Glyndebourne (andrew.higgins@...)
and now a word from our supporters......
http://glyndebourne.com/supporting-glyndebourne

asthiggins@...  asthiggins on Facebook/Twitter
Mobile 07500 827793
And at his blog Wotan's Musings http://wotanselvishmusings.blogspot.com/


On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:07, "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>
wrote:

> In accordance with the well-established tradition of Ardalambion
> Christmas Updates, I am proud to announce that the page for the
> grand(iose) Neo-Quenya New Testament translation project now also
> includes a working link for the Gospel of Matthew:
>
> http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/nqnt.htm
>
> Admittedly, parts of the back-translation into English were prepared in
> a hurry. I hope there aren't any _really_ embarrassing errors.
>
> Of the four gospels, this only leaves Luke, the longest and most
> challenging of them all (the writer employs a greater vocabulary than
> the other three gospel-writers combined). Well, I guess I have twelve
> months to deliver ...
>
> With this addition, the NQNT project inches really close to the half-way
> point, with 48 % of the New Testament translated. As I well know, there
> are numerous inconsistencies in the text, anything from the preferred
> Quenyarization of "Herod" (I now think _Herol_ is better than _Heror_)
> to which neologism is matched to "donkey" and which one to "colt". But
> as a draft it will have to do.
>
> Sooner or later I shall have to revise the whole thing from beginning to
> end (no small task, actually). But in the meantime, please enjoy these
> drafts for what they are worth.
>
> - HKF
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Saw The Hobbit again today  in 48fps 3D IMAX on massive screen - was like
adventuring in Middle Earth - when the Ring "fell" from Gollum it landed right
in front of me (wanted to reach out and grab it - but I passed the test and will
diminish....yada yada).

Very interested in the Orkish language that David Salo worked on for e movie. 
This time caught a couple a more Orkish words which seem to relate to Sindarin
but pronounced with a much more guttural sound (not the PhonoAesthetic
sensibility Tolkien liked). For example one of the Orks says SOGAR which is the
Sindarin word for' to drink 'also a word that sounds like YONDO (son of) is
spoken by AZOG when he says Thorin son of...KAZAR is also used for dwarf.

  In a recent talk David Salo gave about the Orkish language he said that for The
Hobbit movie he wold construct a new Orkish language for the goblins in The
Hobbit. These creatures would be a northern branch of the orcs, borrowing words
from dwarves, men, and even elves in the same region.'  (Posted On One Ring.net)

So far I see evidence of Orkish words based on Khazadul and Elvish - more work
to do on whether the Elvish words come from the Silvan branch of Elvish that
would have been spoken in the Northern regions of Middle Earth.

David if you see this bravo on the work you have done and would be interested in
analyzing the Orkish used in the movies.  My Current Tolkien research Phd work
is focused on the very early languages of Qenya and Goldogrin but I am also
interested in how Tolkien's languages are adapted for other media including the
Peter Jackson movies.

Many thanks. Andy

Sent from the IPAD of Andrew Higgins

Andrew Higgins Head of Development and Membership
Glyndebourne (andrew.higgins@...)
and now a word from our supporters......
http://glyndebourne.com/supporting-glyndebourne

asthiggins@...  asthiggins on Facebook/Twitter
Mobile 07500 827793
And at his blog Wotan's Musings http://wotanselvishmusings.blogspot.com/


On 28 Dec 2012, at 07:33, Alberto Aparici <ygramul.el.multiple@...> wrote:

> That's great! Merry Christmas to you too!
>
> "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...> escribió:
>
> >In accordance with the well-established tradition of Ardalambion
> >Christmas Updates, I am proud to announce that the page for the
> >grand(iose) Neo-Quenya New Testament translation project now also
> >includes a working link for the Gospel of Matthew:
> >
> >http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/nqnt.htm
> >
> >Admittedly, parts of the back-translation into English were prepared in
> >
> >a hurry. I hope there aren't any _really_ embarrassing errors.
> >
> >Of the four gospels, this only leaves Luke, the longest and most
> >challenging of them all (the writer employs a greater vocabulary than
> >the other three gospel-writers combined). Well, I guess I have twelve
> >months to deliver ...
> >
> >With this addition, the NQNT project inches really close to the
> >half-way
> >point, with 48 % of the New Testament translated. As I well know, there
> >
> >are numerous inconsistencies in the text, anything from the preferred
> >Quenyarization of "Herod" (I now think _Herol_ is better than _Heror_)
> >to which neologism is matched to "donkey" and which one to "colt". But
> >as a draft it will have to do.
> >
> >Sooner or later I shall have to revise the whole thing from beginning
> >to
> >end (no small task, actually). But in the meantime, please enjoy these
> >drafts for what they are worth.
> >
> >- HKF
>
> --
> Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

:


       "zirkonicky"
      
<mailto:nicky.walraven@...?subject=Re%3A%20Hi%20and%20help%20with%20verbs%\
20in%20Quenya>


wrote:

  > So in the sentence: 'The singing bird' I guess it translates as ' i
lindala aiw"e ' but for 'The singing birds' will it become ' i lindala
aiwi' OR 'i lindal"e aiwi' ??

In the "Last Ark" or Markirya poem, Tolkien does seem to let active
participles in -la refer to singular and plural words alike (best plural
example: _rámar sisílala_, "wings shining").

In my own Neo-Quenya compositions, I similarly follow the system that
active participles in -la do NOT agree in number the way regular
adjectives do. So for "singing birds" I'd say _lindala aiwi_ (or
_lindala aiweli_).

A practical concern: If we were to let -la pluralize as -le (for older
-lai), these words might be misunderstood as containing the abstract
ending -le (as in _lindale_, singing/music).

The Tolkienian evidence should perhaps be taken for what it is worth.
Markirya is in a rather confused state as regards plural agreement, with
Tolkien changing some plural adjectives to "singular" (or really
uninflected) forms, as if he considered dropping adjectival number
agreement altogether. But even the version of the poem that actually had
plural adjectives never seems to have had distinctly "plural" active
participles.

In Parma 17, we see Tolkien claiming that participles were hardly a part
of conjugation, as if there was no altogether standard way of deriving
"action-adjectives" from verbal stems. Perhaps the exact status and
behavior of (active) participles was somewhat unclear internally (that
is, in Middle-earth) as well as externally (that is, in Tolkien's head).

If used as nouns, the "participles" in -la may however pluralize as
_-lar_; hence _ealar_ "existing ones" (used to mean "beings", by
convention referring to spirits whose natural state is to exist without
a physical body: MR:165).

- HKF


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excuse me, which dictionary?

Remember that all non-text material is removed by the group engine. Any link has
to be typed in the text, any enclosure has to be uploaded separately to the
group as a file.

Season's greetings, Mithrennaith

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Beren Erchamion" <elffanatic2000@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is, with
Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made Sindarinised,
and if possible, give me the word for the interrogative adverb "why"?
>

I guess you are referring to the Didier Willis' online dictionary? In my
experience is the best and most well-studied dictionary, compared to most fan
listing you can find online. As for its completeness, you won't find there many
of the names seen in LOTR and Silmarillion. Also, I guess it's not updated very
often and the most recent published words from Vinyar Tengwar or Parma
Eldalamberon won't be found there either.


>I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is, with
Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made Sindarinised

Thanks for this beautiful work Helge.

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>
wrote:
>
> In accordance with the well-established tradition of Ardalambion
> Christmas Updates, I am proud to announce that the page for the
> grand(iose) Neo-Quenya New Testament translation project now also
> includes a working link for the Gospel of Matthew:
>
> http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/nqnt.htm
>
> Admittedly, parts of the back-translation into English were prepared in
> a hurry. I hope there aren't any _really_ embarrassing errors.
>
> Of the four gospels, this only leaves Luke, the longest and most
> challenging of them all (the writer employs a greater vocabulary than
> the other three gospel-writers combined). Well, I guess I have twelve
> months to deliver ...
>
> With this addition, the NQNT project inches really close to the half-way
> point, with 48 % of the New Testament translated. As I well know, there
> are numerous inconsistencies in the text, anything from the preferred
> Quenyarization of "Herod" (I now think _Herol_ is better than _Heror_)
> to which neologism is matched to "donkey" and which one to "colt". But
> as a draft it will have to do.
>
> Sooner or later I shall have to revise the whole thing from beginning to
> end (no small task, actually). But in the meantime, please enjoy these
> drafts for what they are worth.
>
> - HKF
>

Just curious, what is the link to this dictionary? I have never heard of it
before.


--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Beren Erchamion" <elffanatic2000@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is, with
Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made Sindarinised,
and if possible, give me the word for the interrogative adverb "why"?
>

A decision has apparently been made to name hills and mountains on the
surface of the Saturnian moon of Titan after mountains in Tolkien's
world. See wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_geological_features_on_Titan#Montes

Thus the map of Titan now features Taniquetil Montes (I wonder if they
had the wits to give that name to the _highest_ mountain-range on the
entire moon), Angmar Montes, Dolmed Montes, Mindolluin Montes, Mithrim
Montes, and Rerir Montes.

I wonder if "Echoriat Mons" is just spelling error for "EchoriaTH" or a
deliberate Latinization. They did maintain "th" in Mithrim Montes.

This plural name (ending -ath!) ought to have been given to some
"montes", an entire mountain-range, rather than a singular "mons"
(whereas the opposite is true of "Taniquetil Montes" -- they should have
called them "Pelóri Montes" instead, with Taniquetil as the highest peak!)

Some names are English rather than Sindarin or Quenya; thus Titan now
features Doom Mons (probably far too cold to melt any rings, though) as
well as the Misty Montes!

Well, the dense nitrogen/methane atmosphere of Titan should be "misty"
enough ... not a single one of these "montes" was even know before the
Cassini probe started to peer through the perpetual haze with radar.

Other surface features are not given Tolkien-derived names. The possible
cryovolcano Sotra Facula is named after the Norwegian island of Sotra,
very close to where I live (I believe I can walk up on a hill and look
over to it). I still wonder why Sotra of all islands in the world had
its name transported to Titan.

- HKF

About the Sindarin for "why": Sadly I don't think there is a published
word for "why" in any Tolkien-language.

In my Neo-Quenya texts I fall back on circumlocutions like _manen ná i
.._ "how is (it) that...." or _mana i casta i ...._ "what is the reason
that ..." (unabashedly mixing LotR-era Quenya with _casta_ "reason" from
the Qenya Lexicon!)

Wordy and cumbersome, I know. These long phrases are just placeholders
for a real word for "why", which we must hope will be published sooner
or later.

I don't know if any workable Sindarin "why" circumlocution could be found.

- HKF

It is the first link that comes up if you google "Sindarin Dictionary":

http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar/index.html

On Dec 28, 2012, at 4:55 PM, "firielperedhel" <lsgallant@...> wrote:

> Just curious, what is the link to this dictionary? I have never heard of it
before.
>
> --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Beren Erchamion" <elffanatic2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is,
with Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made
Sindarinised, and if possible, give me the word for the interrogative adverb
"why"?
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In NeoQuenya I usually use *manan 'for what (purpose)' in this sense.

Tamas

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105957840800720660334




________________________________
  From: Helge K. Fauskanger <helge.fauskanger@...>
To: elfling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:17 AM
Subject: [elfling] Why

About the Sindarin for "why": Sadly I don't think there is a published
word for "why" in any Tolkien-language.

In my Neo-Quenya texts I fall back on circumlocutions like _manen ná i
.._ "how is (it) that...." or _mana i casta i ...._ "what is the reason
that ..." (unabashedly mixing LotR-era Quenya with _casta_ "reason" from
the Qenya Lexicon!)

Wordy and cumbersome, I know. These long phrases are just placeholders
for a real word for "why", which we must hope will be published sooner
or later.

I don't know if any workable Sindarin "why" circumlocution could be found.

- HKF


------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you!


--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Paul Strack <pfstrack@...> wrote:
>
> It is the first link that comes up if you google "Sindarin Dictionary":
>
> http://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar/index.html
>
> On Dec 28, 2012, at 4:55 PM, "firielperedhel" <lsgallant@...> wrote:
>
> > Just curious, what is the link to this dictionary? I have never heard of it
before.
> >
> > --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Beren Erchamion" <elffanatic2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me how complete this dictionary is,
with Noldorin and Sindarin words that may have blended and were made
Sindarinised, and if possible, give me the word for the interrogative adverb
"why"?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

That's awesome, even if it is "gramatically" correct. ;)


--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>
wrote:
>
> A decision has apparently been made to name hills and mountains on the
> surface of the Saturnian moon of Titan after mountains in Tolkien's
> world. See wikipedia:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_geological_features_on_Titan#Montes
>
> Thus the map of Titan now features Taniquetil Montes (I wonder if they
> had the wits to give that name to the _highest_ mountain-range on the
> entire moon), Angmar Montes, Dolmed Montes, Mindolluin Montes, Mithrim
> Montes, and Rerir Montes.
>
> I wonder if "Echoriat Mons" is just spelling error for "EchoriaTH" or a
> deliberate Latinization. They did maintain "th" in Mithrim Montes.
>
> This plural name (ending -ath!) ought to have been given to some
> "montes", an entire mountain-range, rather than a singular "mons"
> (whereas the opposite is true of "Taniquetil Montes" -- they should have
> called them "Pelóri Montes" instead, with Taniquetil as the highest peak!)
>
> Some names are English rather than Sindarin or Quenya; thus Titan now
> features Doom Mons (probably far too cold to melt any rings, though) as
> well as the Misty Montes!
>
> Well, the dense nitrogen/methane atmosphere of Titan should be "misty"
> enough ... not a single one of these "montes" was even know before the
> Cassini probe started to peer through the perpetual haze with radar.
>
> Other surface features are not given Tolkien-derived names. The possible
> cryovolcano Sotra Facula is named after the Norwegian island of Sotra,
> very close to where I live (I believe I can walk up on a hill and look
> over to it). I still wonder why Sotra of all islands in the world had
> its name transported to Titan.
>
> - HKF
>

Like so many others I am getting an elvish tattoo. I have trieds esearching the
best I could, but you can never research enough. Im staying in Budapest for a
couple of days and I hope that someone can help me. The sentence I tried
translating is: "Come what may". Of my understanding : come= tul
(come/approach), what = ya and may= still struggling with that one. Am I totally
in space or is this correct? And what is the correct word for may? Thanks in
advance ifd anyone can help me Happy new year

Sindre

I proceeded with a request some minutes ago, and after some intense mind
searching, I realize that it was so wrong, so I would like to tryu again with a
more thought through translation. I am trying to translate the sentence:"Come
what may", into quenya, and this is what I have come up with:


Come= tul (come, approach)

what = mana (what/who)

may = nai (wishes, may it happen, may it be)


Am I completely wrong, or am I on the right path?


Best new year wishes

S

Hello everyone---I used to be a member of the group five or so years back (so
long ago I can't even recall my handle at the time): I remember attempting to
translate some medieval Welsh literature into Sindarin. Nice to be back: happy
new year to all and I look forward to discussions.
Best wishes
Mark

> I don't know if any workable Sindarin "why" circumlocution could be found.

One could always try *amman, 'for what?' on the basis of Welsh paham, pa (h-)
'what' + am 'for'. I'm sure I've seen that in neo-Sindarin texts somewhere.
Best
Mark

The problem is that "Come what may" is pretty idiosyncratic English, which
makes it difficult to translate.

Could you give us a better idea of the sentiment you are trying to express?
Perhaps "Whatever comes, I will face it" or maybe "We cannot control what
comes"

I suspect you want to say something about your destiny or fate, which is
_ambar_ in Quenya. You would really be better off crafting an original
Quenya sentence that expresses the desired sentiment than translating
something from English.

On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:42 AM, sindre_19_92 <sindre_19_92@...> wrote:



I proceeded with a request some minutes ago, and after some intense mind
searching, I realize that it was so wrong, so I would like to tryu again
with a more thought through translation. I am trying to translate the
sentence:"Come what may", into quenya, and this is what I have come up with:

Come= tul (come, approach)

what = mana (what/who)

may = nai (wishes, may it happen, may it be)

Am I completely wrong, or am I on the right path?

Best new year wishes

S




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi people, this time I'm going to tell a little story I've had. Some time ago I
noticed striking similarities between the case endings found in the _Entu, ensi,
enta_ declension (VT36) and the ones found in the "Qenya Declensions" section of
PE16. This led me to further research on the subject, and I came up with a quite
satisfying result, which can be found in the following link:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_f2di6pOb4fcUQtcUFiSVFSejQ

Constructive comments and criticism of any kind are welcome. :)

Yes, and what about modelling the Quenya on the Finnish words for "why":

miksi
mitä varten

(http://translate.google.com/#en/fi/why)

miksi "why" is an inflection of _mikä_ "what":
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/miksi
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mik%C3%A4

mitä varten is "why; what for":
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mit%C3%A4_varten

The difference between mikä "what" and mitä "what" is described here:
http://www.uusikielemme.fi/mitamika.html

This would give two ways of saying "why" in Quenya:

a) A single invented word, as an inflection of mana "what", modeled somehow on
the ancient Proto-Finnic origin of miksi.
b) "what for": *mana an. Or shortened like Tamas suggested: *manan.


--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "expvlsion" <expvlsion@...> wrote:

> One could always try *amman, 'for what?' on the basis of Welsh paham, pa (h-)
'what' + am 'for'. I'm sure I've seen that in neo-Sindarin texts somewhere.
> Best
> Mark

I've started to translate the Seelenkalendar into Quenya here:
https://sites.google.com/site/calendarsofthesoul/quenya

There's a connection to the Inklings through Owen Barfield.

I'd be glad for any help.

As for "come what may": Unless you mean "no matter what comes", but
rather something along the lines of "I surrender to fate", my best
suggestion in Neo-Quenya might be:

Nai ya tuluva , tuluva

(Be it that [that] which will come, will come)

Or perhaps with the verb first: _Nai tuluva ya tuluva_.

I believe Galadriel says "that what will be will be" when Frodo asks her
what she might wish for the future? (I'm quoting from memory here.)

Perhaps _Nai nauva ya nauva_ ?

- HKF

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "sindre_19_92"  wrote:
>
> The sentence I tried translating is: "Come what may". Of my understanding :
come= tul (come/approach), what = ya and may= still struggling with that one. Am
I totally in space or is this correct? And what is the correct word for may?

Keeping in mind the obvious fact that English and Quenya are unrelated languages
and one needs to look beyond the verbatim approach when translating, I would
suggest as a to-go translation _Na tule ya tuluva_ or _Á tule ya tuluva_ ("Let
come what will come"), or _... ya quíta/ya opo, ya *pó(ta)_ "that which may
happen" (VT42:34) vs. "that which [is/lies] ahead, that which comes after now"
(with extension of latter form cp. also _ca, cata_ "behind").

Indeed since the idea to be conveyed is "occur, happen", others might perhaps
consider using something from the root MBARAT (v. _marta-_).

I also think the possibility of replacing _ya_ with _tai_ "that which" seems
pretty legit, given Tolkien's use of this form (VT42&49).

- S. P.

I *think* I heard something like this from Gandalf to Galadriel:

Prestannen im ah iphant, dan ú i-Chíril Lórien
Changed am I, and full of years; but not the Lady of Lórien

I'm most confident about the end of this phrase.

McKellen seemed to my ear to say **círil' but then people do sometimes find
velar fricatives difficult.

Best
M

On 2013-01-03 12:10, Helge K. Fauskanger wrote:
> I believe Galadriel says "that what will be will be" when Frodo asks her
> what she might wish for the future? (I'm quoting from memory here.)
>
> Perhaps _Nai nauva ya nauva_ ?

The Fellowship of the Ring movie soundtrack actually draws on this
dialogue for the Quenya lyrics of "Lament for Gandalf".
Galadriel's 'That what should be shall be' is translated there by David
Salo as
_Nauva i nauva_
(which is then back-translated to English as "it will be what will be"
in the CD booklet).

Maria

Or:

_na tule *aiqua_

or:

_nauva ya nauva_

TF



________________________________
  From: elenyona <sp12@...>
To: elfling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:54 AM
Subject: [elfling] Re: In urgent need of help

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "sindre_19_92"  wrote:
>
> The sentence I tried translating is: "Come what may". Of my understanding :
come= tul (come/approach), what = ya and may= still struggling with that one. Am
I totally in space or is this correct? And what is the correct word for may?

Keeping in mind the obvious fact that English and Quenya are unrelated languages
and one needs to look beyond the verbatim approach when translating, I would
suggest as a to-go translation _Na tule ya tuluva_ or _Á tule ya tuluva_ ("Let
come what will come"), or _... ya quíta/ya opo, ya *pó(ta)_ "that which may
happen" (VT42:34) vs. "that which [is/lies] ahead, that which comes after now"
(with extension of latter form cp. also _ca, cata_ "behind").

Indeed since the idea to be conveyed is "occur, happen", others might perhaps
consider using something from the root MBARAT (v. _marta-_).

I also think the possibility of replacing _ya_ with _tai_ "that which" seems
pretty legit, given Tolkien's use of this form (VT42&49).

- S. P.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not sure if I understand your spreadsheet.

Are you assigning the _Entu, Ensi, Enta_ declensions to the various
cases defined in the Qenya Declensions in PE16?

If so, it's a nice bit of work.

On 1/3/13 3:24 PM, rikkuras_del_mas_alla wrote:
>
> Hi people, this time I'm going to tell a little story I've had. Some
> time ago I noticed striking similarities between the case endings
> found in the _Entu, ensi, enta_ declension (VT36) and the ones found
> in the "Qenya Declensions" section of PE16. This led me to further
> research on the subject, and I came up with a quite satisfying result,
> which can be found in the following link:
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_f2di6pOb4fcUQtcUFiSVFSejQ
>
> Constructive comments and criticism of any kind are welcome. :)
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]