I am tinkering with a draft for Hebrews in my Neo-Quenya New Testament

-- it would be a major addition, the third longest letter.

Incidentally, I agree with the proposal that _menta_ "message" is the

best translation of "letter".



A few problematic words:



"Anchor". Something based on TAK- "fix, make firm", perhaps? *_Takla_ >

_tacil_?



_Zelos_ = "Jealousy; eagerness; intolerance, zeal"



"Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?



- HKF

On 2012-10-30, Helge K. Fauskanger <helge.fauskanger@...> wrote:

> "Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?



The OED says: < Latin hyssōpus, hyssōpum, < Greek ὕσσωπος,

ὕσσωπον,

apparently an eastern word, being represented in Hebrew by ēzōb.



--

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in

Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Hello Helge,



anchor - how about _ampa_ or _atsa_ "hook", possibly as a compound *kiryampa?





�

Tamas Ferencz











________________________________

  From: Helge K. Fauskanger <helge.fauskanger@...>

To: elfling@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:43 AM

Subject: [elfling] Words for Hebrews



I am tinkering with a draft for Hebrews in my Neo-Quenya New Testament�

-- it would be a major addition, the third longest letter.�

Incidentally, I agree with the proposal that _menta_ "message" is the

best translation of "letter".



A few problematic words:



"Anchor". Something based on TAK- "fix, make firm", perhaps? *_Takla_ >

_tacil_?



_Zelos_ = "Jealousy; eagerness; intolerance, zeal"



"Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?



- HKF





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TF scripsit:



> Hello Helge,



> anchor - how about _ampa_ or _atsa_ "hook",

> possibly as a compound *kiryampa?



That would suggest to me that device used by

pirates to "hook" the victim ship so that it could

not escape... :-)



Lukas

Ah yes, but that would be *ehtampa for me:)





 

Thomas Ferencz





Let's discuss Eldarin languages - http://aglardh.middangeard.org.uk







________________________________

  From: Lukáš Novák <lukas.novak@...>

To: TF <elfling@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [elfling] Words for Hebrews







TF scripsit:



> Hello Helge,



> anchor - how about _ampa_ or _atsa_ "hook",

> possibly as a compound *kiryampa?



That would suggest to me that device used by

pirates to "hook" the victim ship so that it could

not escape... :-)



Lukas







------------------------------------



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Apparently hyssop from "ezob/ezov" refers to any of a number of herbs, like

Origan, marjoram and others. Sometimes it is refered to as "holy herb" because

it was used for ritual purposes. So maybe "aina laique" could be a solution.



Valeria





--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>

wrote:

>

> I am tinkering with a draft for Hebrews in my Neo-Quenya New Testament

> -- it would be a major addition, the third longest letter.

> Incidentally, I agree with the proposal that _menta_ "message" is the

> best translation of "letter".

>

> A few problematic words:

>

> "Anchor". Something based on TAK- "fix, make firm", perhaps? *_Takla_ >

> _tacil_?

>

> _Zelos_ = "Jealousy; eagerness; intolerance, zeal"

>

> "Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?

>

> - HKF

>

Hello Helge,



> "Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?

>

> - HKF



My own dictionary gives the following cognate words: Hebr. _'ēzōb_,

Akkadian _zūpu_, Syriac _zuphā_, Aramaic _zūfā_. But no

inkling as to the meaning of this word.



Given it's a non-Indo-European, non-Finno-Ougric word, I'd use a phonetic

adaptation in Quenya rather than aim for a translation.



Cheers,

Elendil � Damien

Hello,





D> Given it's a non-Indo-European, non-Finno-Ougric word, I'd use a

D> phonetic adaptation in Quenya rather than aim for a translation.



It   might   be   a   good   solution   (so Hisop or Hissop, in Church

Slavonic and Russian it's иссоп - issop).

but  maybe  - I know it's crazy but still - why not Asëa? This thought

is inspired by another person who said that it means "holy plant".



--

Tenna rato,

Menelion.

Under "anchor" C.D. Buck states : "The majority of the words for "anchor" are

borrowed through the Latin from the Greek word, which itself is based on the

notion of something bent, "a hook". Other connections are with "cat", "sink",

"iron".



Since we have "hook" _ampa_, a compound like shiphook "cirampa" would sound

quite comprehensible to me.



Valeria





--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>

wrote:

>

> I am tinkering with a draft for Hebrews in my Neo-Quenya New Testament

> -- it would be a major addition, the third longest letter.

> Incidentally, I agree with the proposal that _menta_ "message" is the

> best translation of "letter".

>

> A few problematic words:

>

> "Anchor". Something based on TAK- "fix, make firm", perhaps? *_Takla_ >

> _tacil_?

>

> _Zelos_ = "Jealousy; eagerness; intolerance, zeal"

>

> "Hyssop". Any ideas about the etymology of this plant-name?

>

> - HKF

>

Middle English ysope, from Old English ȳsōpe, from Latin hȳsōpum, hyssōpus,

from Greek hussōpos, probably of Semitic origin; akin to Aramaic 'ezobā.



Is that enough, or what you were looking for?



--

Often wrong, never in doubt (Ivy Baker Priest, Green Grows the Ivy, 1958)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for valuable suggestioins, everybody.



As for _hyssop_, I find it a little problematic that it has a final

consonant not allowed in Quenya, so a simple phonological adaptation may

not be the best way to go.



Yes, I guess we shall have to go for something like "holy plant", or

something descriptive. (What does a hyssop look like, anyway?)



Any ideas for "zeal"?



- HKF







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2012-11-02, Helge K. Fauskanger <helge.fauskanger@...> wrote:

> As for _hyssop_, I find it a little problematic that it has a final

> consonant not allowed in Quenya, so a simple phonological adaptation may

> not be the best way to go.



Why is this problematic? Many languages that don't permit final

consonants borrow from English. Nowadays they may just ignore the

native phonotactics, but traditionally Japanese, for example, adds

vowels to break up illegal clusters and finals.



--

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in

Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

etymology for 'zeal':  probably from late (14th centrury) Latin.

zelus"zeal, emulation" borrowed from greek.

zelos (zeal or ardor). Not Indo-european, and no one seems to be sure of

where it might have come from



--

Often wrong, never in doubt (Ivy Baker Priest, Green Grows the Ivy, 1958)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> zelos (zeal or ardor). Not Indo-european, and no one seems to be sure of where

it might have come from



In his Lexicon der Indogermanischen Verben (2001) H. Rix traces Greek _z�los_

(original long _a_, Dor. _z�los_), _d�zemai_ and _zet�w_ 'seek' to an IE root

*_yeh2-_ 'ask', related to Vedic _y�mi_ 'I ask', _yat�r-_ 'avenger' (with

agentive suffix) and _yac_ 'ask' (from extended root form *_yeh2-k-_) as well as

(probably) to Old Avestan and Tocharian forms. Pokorny had reconstructed it as

*_y�-_ but with a meaning 'to be angry > to punish, avenge' and lists wider set

of derivatives. C. Watkins in his American Heritage Dict. agrees (*_yeh2-_>�

_y�-_ 'to seek, request, desire').



Diego Segu�



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