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elfling · Elvish Linguistics List

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  • Members: 2018
  • Category: Tolkien, J.R.R.
  • Founded: Sep 5, 1998
  • Language: English
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#36279 From: "sofia.estevez" <sofia.estevez@...>
Date: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:51 am
Subject: Translation -
sofia.estevez
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Hello elves,

My name is Sofía. This is the first time I post something on this group,
although Im a frequent visitor and avid reader of your exchanges.

The reason why I'm writing today is because I'm in a bit of a dead end.
I've tried to translate a phrase into Quenya, but as I know that my attempt
represents an insult to Tolkien's creation, I would like to know if anyone could
come to my rescue.

This is what I managed to do using Helge Fauskanger's wordlists (by the way,
thank you very much for making that available).

Please, bare in mind that I only managed to translate word by word (and I'm
actually not sure if I even got that right):

Happiness only real when shared
Alassë er anwa írë hyanda.

I would also like to know if there's any place where I can turn that (or
anything in Elvish) into Tengwar.

Thank you all very much in advance, and please excuse my English!


Regards from Buenos Aires,
Sofía




#36282 From: "Bob" <rfh48@...>
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:49 pm
Subject: Re: Translation -
rfhancock48
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Hi Sofia
The following files describe how to write Tengwar in Quenya or Sindarin modes.
http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/teng-que.pdf
http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/teng-sin.pdf
Maybe this is what you are looking for ?
Bob

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "sofia.estevez" <sofia.estevez@...> wrote:
>
> Hello elves,
>
> My name is Sofía. This is the first time I post something on this group,
although Im a frequent visitor and avid reader of your exchanges.
>
> The reason why I'm writing today is because I'm in a bit of a dead end.
> I've tried to translate a phrase into Quenya, but as I know that my attempt
represents an insult to Tolkien's creation, I would like to know if anyone could
come to my rescue.
>
> This is what I managed to do using Helge Fauskanger's wordlists (by the way,
thank you very much for making that available).
>
> Please, bare in mind that I only managed to translate word by word (and I'm
actually not sure if I even got that right):
>
> Happiness only real when shared
> Alassë er anwa írë hyanda.
>
> I would also like to know if there's any place where I can turn that (or
anything in Elvish) into Tengwar.
>
> Thank you all very much in advance, and please excuse my English!
>
>
> Regards from Buenos Aires,
> Sofía
>





#36288 From: "Helge K. Fauskanger" <helge.fauskanger@...>
Date: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: Translation -
helge.fauskanger@...
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Sofia wrote:

> Happiness only real when shared
Alassë er anwa írë hyanda.

Well, _hyanda_ means "blade, share" as a noun.

"To share" is one of those difficult terms we don't have a quite perfect
translation for. We may paraphrase as "give to others a piece/part"
(anta exin ranta).

"Only" is also a problematic word. We do have _er_ in an early wordlist
(LT1:269/QL:36) but according to material published in Vinyar Tengwar
#48:6 and 49:54, Tolkien later used _er_ as a numeral "one" (cf. also
_Eru er_ "one God", Vinyar Tengwar 44:17). [About Vinyar Tengwar, see
footnote.]

We might say something like:

_I erya (n)anwa alasse ná antaina exin_ = the sole true happiness is
given to others

or

_Alasse ua (n)anwa qui uas antaina exin_ = happiness is not real if it
is not given to others

or

_Alasse ua (n)anwa qui ual samitas as exi_ = happiness is not real if
you do not have it together with others

or maybe the best:

_Alasse ua (n)anwa qui ual etsatitas_ = happiness is not real if you do
not distribute it

(We have both _nanwa_ and _anwa_ attested as words for "real".)

I hope this doesn't become overly wordy for your taste.

- HKF

P.S. Since there may be some relative newcomers among us now, perhaps
including Sofia, I should probably mention that Vinyar Tengwar was a
Tolkien-linguistic publication appearing in the period 1988-2007. It
gained particular importance during its final decade, when it actually
published previously unknown Tolkien material. The reasons for its
regrettable demise in 2007 are obscure, since there plainly remains a
vast wealth of material that could be published. Apparently the (former)
editor, Carl F. Hostetter, vaguely plans to revive his journal -- and we
must wish him the best of luck.



#36293 From: "Bob" <rfh48@...>
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2012 3:05 am
Subject: Re: Translation -
rfhancock48
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Hi Helga and Sofia
I think there may be some confusion going on here with the meaning of "share" as
a noun. If hyanda is given as a noun with the translation "blade, share", this
seems more likely to refer to a plough-share, which is the blade part of a
plough, rather than the alternative meaning of "share" as a portion of
something. Consequently, using hyanda to construct the verb "to share" would be
incorrect.
Bob



#36294 From: TF <percival64@...>
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2012 8:45 am
Subject: Re: Re: Translation -
percival64
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Well yes, but the English verb share does go back to the AS� sceran, also
source of later 'share, blade'.
There is the attested Q verb _etsat-/estat-_ 'divide in equal
proportions, which in itself could develop the sense of� cut into
portions and give some to others', (maybe with some sort of comitative
to follow), or perhaps one could coin *osat- 'divide out together'.
�
Thomas Ferencz


Let's discuss Eldarin languages - http://aglardh.middangeard.org.uk
Tolkien Wiktionary - http://www.eldarinwiki.com



 
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