Gen suilon !



I just joined this group and I would like to introduce myself : My

name is Patricia , I am 22 years old and I study economic sciences in

Germany. I love languages. I speak English, French, Spanish, Italian

and a bit of Greek.



I know my English is not the best, but hopefully you can understand

me anyway !



Last January I discovered my love for the Elvish tongues an practise

Sindarin ever since !



I first got in touch with Tolkien's books at the age of 9 . Then I re-

discovered his works 5 years ago.



I just send a message with a poem that I tried to translate. So far I

only got questions but hopefully one day I will be good enough to

help and give answers myself



Suil



Arodeth

Aiya,

Welcome!



----------

Namárie,

Ailin Faila



----- Original Message -----

From: "arodeth" <arodeth@...>

[...]

> Gen suilon !

>

> I just joined this group and I would like to introduce myself. My

> name is Patricia Czap and I come from Germany. [...]

Greetings. My name is Lia. I recently joined to learn more about Tolkien's

elvish language. Currently I'm trying to translate some people's names. I'm

having trouble with the name Evangeline. It means 'good news'. Now, I have the

word 'good', which is _mára_, but I can't figure out news. I could use the word

'messages' instead, which would be _menta_, but would that be right? Thanks.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:17:28 -0800

"Lia Zikos" <helona85@...> wrote:



> Greetings. My name is Lia. I recently joined to learn more about Tolkien's

elvish language. Currently I'm trying to translate some people's names. I'm

having trouble with the name Evangeline. It means 'good news'. Now, I have the

word 'good', which is _mára_, but I can't figure out news. I could use the word

'messages' instead, which would be _menta_, but would that be right? Thanks.



I'm new as well... RotK seems to have sparked a new interest in Tolkien's

languages.  I've been seriously wanting to learn them (Quenya especially) and

now I've got some free time...



Anyway, "good messages" seems appropriate.  As a name it would, perhaps, be

_maramente_ (not sure how to make unicode chars in sylpheed... accents and

diaereses (sp?) where appropriate) for a female, _maramento_ for a male...



http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/elfnam.htm suggests those ending modifications

for names, at least, although the author suggests that it only works for

adjectives in -a.  I would propose that since we have the fortune, in this case,

of a noun with the same ending, that it would proabably be acceptable.  And they

sound nice :)



At any rate, see the referenced URL for a good page on name conversion.  And as

I'm quite new to the language, don't take anything I say as carrying actual

weight.



-darkside

At 03:42 25.12.2003, DarkSide wrote:



>(not sure how to make unicode chars in sylpheed... accents and diaereses

>(sp?) where appropriate)



Just replace the accent by a doubled vowel

and drop the diaeresis. E.g. _palantiir,

Earendil_.  The acute marks a long vowel

and the diaeresis was only Tolkien's device

to discourage speakers of English from dropping

some vowels.



Isn't this a FAQ BTW?



/BP 8^)

--

B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__

                 A h-ammen ledin i phith!                \ \

      __  ____ ____    _____________ ____ __   __ __     / /

      \ \/___ \\__ \  /___  _____/\ \\__ \\ \  \ \\ \   / /

      / /   / /  /  \    / /Melroch\ \_/ // /  / // /  / /

     / /___/ /_ / /\ \  / /'Aestan ~\_  // /__/ // /__/ /

    /_________//_/  \_\/ /Eowine __  / / \___/\_\\___/\_\

Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun

   ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~

|| Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||

"A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:54:25 +0100

Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:



>

> Isn't this a FAQ BTW?



Yes, but I was actually trying to ask, in a sneaky way... how do I insert

unicode characters, in general.



-darkside

Suilië,

--- DarkSide <darksidex@...> wrote:

>

> Yes, but I was actually trying to ask, in a sneaky way... how do I

> insert unicode characters, in general.

>

If you are writing in Quenya:

For á use Alt+0225

For ä use Alt+0228

For é use Alt+0233

For ë use Alt+0235

For í use Alt+0237

For ó use Alt+0243

For ö use Alt+0246

For ú use Alt+0250



If you are writing in Sindarin:

For â use Alt+0226

For ê use Alt+0234

For î use Alt+0238

For ô use Alt+0244

For û use Alt+0251



Because there is no circumflexed y on the keyboard, this letter is

replaced with ý Alt+0253



There are also unicodes for capital vowels but I don't know them off-hand

(I usually have to look them up) on a sheet that I have at work. I really

should make a photocopy of it and keep it with my Elvish material. You can

always experiment by trial and error in the meantime.



Hope this helps.

Namárie,

Arthur



=====

Utúlie'n Estel!



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On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 07:35:08 -0800 (PST)

Arthur Boccaccio <elhanan_austin@...> wrote:



> Suili_,

> --- DarkSide <darksidex@...> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, but I was actually trying to ask, in a sneaky way... how do I

> > insert unicode characters, in general.

> >

> If you are writing in Quenya:

> For _ use Alt+0225

<snip>



Hmm... all of your examples show up as underscores.  I forgot to mention that

I'm in a Linux environment.  I suppose you're using MS Unicode, not standard

Unicode, hence the "placeholder" character I get.  The Alt + 4 digits combos

don't work in Linux, they're a Microsoft construction.  The strange thing is

that in gaim (my instant messaging client) I can use Ctrl + Shift + the

character's hex value, or the html special characters (such as ë).  But I

can't seem to do it from either

a) a terminal

or

b) a text-only web browser (which I'm using)



As unicode is the standard font in Linux, there SHOULD be a way to input them. 

And since I can see most of the extended characters people are using (i.e.

acutes and daiereses showed up in earlier emails), I supposed someone here might

know how I can make it work.



I shall seek out the answer.



-darkside

   Hello everyone;



  I did some poems lately. This one is a kind of prayer

to Manwe Sulimo. I work best with mythological-kind of

works. I'd like to know your thoughts about this one.

Tell me what should be change, and don't forget to

tell me 'where' you found your words or stuffs.



  Have a nice day.

ps: my keybord is completely mad, I can't put any

accents on letters. So, don't be surprised to found

any! I am seeking for the verb 'to teach' in sindarin,

and 'ready', as 'I am ready', and 'to touch'.



  O Manwe Sulimo,

pure wind on the Earth,

you are king ont the Taniquetil,

you protect good judgement and leadership.

Show me the cloud I must fallow,

show me the bird's cry I must listen,

and show me the songs that lies in the wind.

O lord of breath of Arda,

king of the ancients,

I am making allegence to you.

So may it be.



Ai Manwe Sulimo,

pant sur erin Amar,

galu o gwaith nin,

edh na aran vi Taniquetil,

edh beria band vaer a gur.

Trenaro nin i faun im thelia aphado,

trenaro nin aew hul im thelia lathro,

a trenaro nin i glir sen vi sul.

Ai Sulimo,

aran erin einior,

im bruia den.

Aen



                     Hannon le

                              Aranelle



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Teithant Aranelle E Labigni:



>   Hello everyone;

>

>  I did some poems lately. This one is a kind of prayer

>to Manwe Sulimo. I work best with mythological-kind of

>works. I'd like to know your thoughts about this one.

>Tell me what should be change, and don't forget to

>tell me 'where' you found your words or stuffs.

>

>  Have a nice day.

>ps: my keybord is completely mad, I can't put any

>accents on letters. So, don't be surprised to found

>any! I am seeking for the verb 'to teach' in sindarin,



*_Saeda-_ is the coinage, from the root SAY- (Etym:385).

Perhaps a bit poetical word could also be stl *_golwanna-_..?

("to give wisdom")



>and 'ready', as 'I am ready'



*_hurui_, *_herin_? (< KHOR-, with adjectival #-ui, #-in)



>and 'to touch'.



I would use _matha-_ (unless somebody has a better suggestion).



>  O Manwe Sulimo,

>pure wind on the Earth,

>you are king ont the Taniquetil,

>you protect good judgement and leadership.

>Show me the cloud I must fallow,

>show me the bird's cry I must listen,

>and show me the songs that lies in the wind.

>O lord of breath of Arda,

>king of the ancients,

>I am making allegence to you.

>So may it be.



Here're some notes, suggestions, etc:



>Ai Manwe Sulimo,

>pant sur erin Amar,



Fine. Or the adjective can follow *_sûr_ (and be lenited) if

your meter allows it. "Pure" could also be !_poeg_.



And I guess instead of _erin_, _bo_ would also be acceptable.



>galu o gwaith nin,



(This is not translated in the English..?)



>edh na aran vi Taniquetil,



What is the function of _na_ here?

I'm also a bit sceptical about _vi_ "in" fitting here...



>edh beria band vaer a gur.



"Good keeping and counsel"? Nng, *maybe*, if one *insists* on

not resorting to any neo-sort of stuff... otherwise something

from KAN- or TUK- (based on the existing words we have)

"leadership" might be a good idea for the sake of clarity.



And why not use _baudh_ (Etym:350) for "judgement"..?



>Trenaro nin i faun im thelia aphado,

>trenaro nin aew hul im thelia lathro,

>a trenaro nin i glir sen vi sul.



Or *_tana-_ instead of attested _trenar-_ (cf. Q. in MR:471);

the longer dative pronoun might also be a good idea (if possible)

to avoid the ambiguity of object, especially if you use _trenar-_

(right?).



"I must" needs to be amended to _boe enni/nin_ (aphado,

etc.), with a possible little manoeuvrability with the word-order.



"Bird's cry" should be either _hûl (en-)aew_ or _aewchul_ IMO;

"listen" could also be _lasto_.



In "The songs (that lie)...", "that/this" should be *_int_/_sîn_

(respectively). And maybe the definite plural is _in glîr_? Or is

there a grammar theory contradictory to Helge's article (in the

mutational issue ;))?



>Ai Sulimo,

>aran erin einior,



_Einior_ probably has to be pluralised; but what would it

become?? *?_Einioer_?



>O lord of breath of Arda,



(This has no Sindarin equivalent?)



>im bruia den.



_Buia_?

_Den_ might also be confused with the word in VT44:21,

maybe use _le_ or (*)_lin_ instead?



>Aen



A keen and interesting poem, with a semi-Greek sentiment...



Elhath



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Teithant Elhath:

> Fine. Or the adjective can follow *_s蠄_ (and be lenited) if

_Sûl_ it should be ?



> your meter allows it. "Pure" could also be !_poeg_.

A new coinage from Q. _poica_? I'll write it down...



There is also a Neo Sindarin for "pure, unaffected": _úbrestannen_





Suilo a Garo Idhrinn Eden Veren :)

>   Hello everyone;

>

>  I did some poems lately. This one is a kind of prayer

> to Manwe Sulimo. I work best with mythological-kind of

> works. I'd like to know your thoughts about this one.

[...]



Well then why not get it in quenya too:





Ai Manwe Sulimo



Poica suure ambaresse



Elye aran taniquetilde



Varyalye maara naama ar axan



A tana nin fanya i hilyuvan



Tana nin liire aiweo i lastuvan



Ar tana nin linde i suuresse caita



Ai heru Ardasuuleo



Aran yaareo



Antan len voronwe



Nai sie nauva

michiru wrote:



>Teithant Elhath:

> > Fine. Or the adjective can follow *_s?_ (and be lenited) if

>_Sûl_ it should be ?

>

> > your meter allows it. "Pure" could also be !_poeg_.

>A new coinage from Q. _poica_? I'll write it down...



Lol no, it is Noldorin _puig_ "Sindarinized", i.e. updated phonologically

(as with _bui_ > !_boe_). Is this somehow inconsistent with the

common theory?



Elhath



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Teithant elhath:

> Lol no, it is Noldorin _puig_ "Sindarinized", i.e.

> updated phonologically

> (as with _bui_ > !_boe_). Is this somehow

> inconsistent with the

> common theory?

> Elhath



Nope...quite consist with the common theory for me:)



MOY: Q moina, ON muina > N muin

OY: Q Oiolosse, ON Uigolosse > N Uilos

ROY1: Q roita-, N rhui

ROY2: Q roina-, N gruin



Quite make sense for me^^



Suil!

There was a request for translation help in Sindarin, and my area of interest

has always been Quenya; however, I decided to attempt it. Here is what happened

in Sindarin, literal English translation, and poetically licensed English

translation. Please let me know what can be done differently to perfect it.



Gwanunig i câr lend and be galad lagor adôl a barthêl în einior. Gâr guru teli

athan edonnad thêl în? Berio dhangweth lîn.



lit. Twin who makes journey long like light swift returns and home-sister his

[is] older. Possess [he] skill to come beyond begetting of sister his? Protect

answer your.



"A twin who makes a long journey like swift light returns and his home-sister is

older [than he]. Does he possess the skill to travel beyond the birth of his

sister? Defend your answer."



Glossary:



gwanunig n., sing. "twin" (WJ: 367)

i rel. pron. "who" (King's Letter)

câr vt., 3 p. sing. "makes" (HKF's Suggested Conjugation of All Known or

Inferred Sindarin Verbs)

lend* n., sing. "journey" (PoME 404)

adôl* vi., 3 p. sing. ad- + tôl, yielding addôl* > adôl; "come again, return"



It goes on like this; I suspect that you will question me if you need any more

terms glossed; but until that time I must stop, for it is extremely late.



As you may notice, I ran into a few troubles; e.g., the combination of ad- "re-,

again" and tel- "come". I assumed that the resultant cluster /dd/ would be

unacceptable in Sindarin and reduced it to /d/.



Thanks in advance for your help.



-MJK



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Michael Keegan" <word_sinquain@...> schrieb:

> There was a request for translation help in Sindarin, and my area of interest

has always been Quenya; however, I decided to attempt it. Here is what happened

in Sindarin, literal English translation, and poetically licensed English

translation. Please let me know what can be done differently to perfect it.

>

> Gwanunig i câr lend and be galad lagor adôl a barthêl în einior. Gâr guru teli

athan edonnad thêl în? Berio dhangweth lîn.

>

> lit. Twin who makes journey long like light swift returns and home-sister his

[is] older. Possess [he] skill to come beyond begetting of sister his? Protect

answer your.

>

> "A twin who makes a long journey like swift light returns and his home-sister

is older [than he]. Does he possess the skill to travel beyond the birth of his

sister? Defend your answer."

>



Hi,



I would use _sui calad_ for 'like' instead of _be galad_. I think I have heard

_athol-_ for 'return', but I am not sure. Then I would go on _Gâr e guru reviad

athan i edonnad e-thêl în. Berio i nangweth liin._



I am not sure, but I think that lenition of _dangweth_ causes _nangweth_ . I

think I have read about that somewhere. But maybe somebody else can comment on

that.



Hope this helped



Suil,



Arodeth

DarkSide wrote:



> Anyway, "good messages" seems appropriate.  As a name it would, perhaps,

> be _maramente_



Or "maaramentinque"?



Lukas

Teithant Melroch:

>Isn't this a FAQ BTW?



You assume that most people actually read the FAQ before they begin

posting? I think you assume too much!  : )



Cuio mae, Danny.

Thank you for the information. I think I have it now. This is one of my first

in-depth attempts at translating. After this I'm going to poetry. Lia



   DarkSide wrote:



   > Anyway, "good messages" seems appropriate.  As a name it would, perhaps,

   > be _maramente_



   Or "maaramentinque"?



   Lukas







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,



My name is Petra (or Sarde in Quenya :-), I am 26, I live in The

Netherlands. Before the LotR movies, I had only read The Hobbit, which

I, to be perfectly honest, found rather boring. Now I have finally

begun to read LotR only a few days ago and I have to admit, I am

hooked and although I have examinations coming up in little over a

week, I have hardly been able to drag myself away from the book (I am

now at 'The Rings goes South')... I have always been interested in

languages in general. I posess some knowledge of Latin and Greek and I

speak English, German, Friesian (local language) and Dutch. I used to

have a friend at school who had much the same hobby as Professor

Tolkien; inventing lands, cultures and languages. It always fascinated

me greatly and so do the languages of Professor Tolkien. So I guess I

came to the right place. :-)



Petra

Suilië,

--- Petra de Jong <gnojedartep@...> wrote:

It always fascinated me greatly and so do the languages of Professor

Tolkien. So I guess I came to the right place. :-)

>

> Petra

>

You certainly have! If, after your exams, you want to pursue the study of

Quenya and/or Sindarin, the following sites will be of help:



For Quenya: THE site is:



Ardalambion.com.



You can download Helge's Quenya course for free. You can also go to



Ambar-eldaron.com



and download the Quenya course in French, if that would work better for

you.



For Sindarin: You now have two sites:



1. elvish.org



has just released a new downloadable Sindarin course in English.



2. Alternatively, you can go to



councilofelrond.com.



This is an online course. You need to set up a free account (it takes all

of two minutes to do) and then you'll have your own personal webpage where

you can access the language workbook site. There are exercises that you

can do which are hand corrected by someone at the site. This website also

offers a pared-down version of the Ardalambion Quenya course. I would do

Ardalambion first, and then use this site as a review (which is what I am

doing at the moment).



Hope this helps.

Arthur



=====

Utúlie'n Estel!



__________________________________

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I wrote:

>

> For Sindarin: You now have two sites:

>

> 1. elvish.org



mea culpa: it should have read: elvish.org/gwaith



Arthur



=====

Utúlie'n Estel!



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Hello, Elflings!  My name is Aida Ðikiæ (pronounced gee-kich) and I'm from

Mostar, Bosnia and Herzegovina.   I found this group while I was going through

the links at the Ardalambion web site, hoping to find something that would help

me start learning Sindarin.  Everything here is outrageously expensive - books,

access to the Internet, so I can check my mail only occasionally.  Is there

anybody out there who would have enough patience to work with me from scratch? 

I'm very serious about this and I do not give up easily.  Thank you in advance,

Aida.











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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello new friends,



I am new to Elfling and I wanted to introduce myself. I am 55 years old

and I live in Tampa, Florida. I am a chaplain with the U.S Corps of

Chaplains and I work for a Franciscan owned retirement village.



Since I was very small, my mother instilled in me the magic of writing,

imagination and an unwavering belief in elves. :) I have always been a

Tolkein fan, but was greatly surprised when I discovered that he had

created the Languages of Middle Earth. The more I began to study it,

the more I wanted to learn.



I probably won't be posting much at this time, because I feel that it

would be more benificial for me to just learn from you.



Thank you so much for allowing me to join your discussions.



Spencer St John

welcome...



since recently, the few posts are for quite advanced

topics (eg. which suggestion of Sindarin declesion is

more correct) I suggest reading the FAQ, and if you

have still questions, feel free to post



> Hello new friends,

>

> I am new to Elfling and I wanted to introduce

> myself. [...]

> Thank you so much for allowing me to join your

> discussions.

>

> Spencer St John

[...]

Aiya Lienye.

Hello my people.



I'm new, so I suppose the first thing I should write is an intro. As

I suppose many of you already on this board have done I must send my

humblest of thanks to Mr. Fauskanger. His site has been a major

resource for me, and I'm sure for many. Which reminds me, I'm ALWAYS

looking for new sources of Quenya, esp. poetry. If this is a welcome

forum, perhaps I will share some of my own works, I'll reread the

FAQ's. If not, I need suggestions of a forum, for I fear they will

simply die on my lips if they are not read by the lips of others

(obviously, I have no audiences).



If anyone cares, I'm eighteen, and a huge Tolkien dork. The reason I

took up Quenya was to enhance my lingustic skills for my own book,

which is not LOTR based and will not soon come out, sorry, but I am

always open to talking about it, however burdensome it may become to

the listener. I'm useing that and Latin to assist in forming my own

(Chessian) language for my book (again Mr. Fauskanger has been near

godlike in helping me with this). I'm a yank (Chicago(go Sox)) and a

native English speaker. And before this becomes (eh, it's too late

anyway) burdensomely long, I will give you a Namaarie. Farewell.



It may be long

But that's just

I'm just Bob.

> Aiya Lienye.

> Hello my people.



hi to you as well



only to remark that the possessive ending has been

attested as -nya. -nye seems to be the verb ending



To say it otherwise, you said 'I people' instead of

'my people'



good luck in expanding your experience













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Hello,everybody!



I actually joined this list some time ago, but the introduction comes

now... Well, I'm a 21 year old Norwegian music student, mostly

interested in Sindarin, which I've been studying for around six months.

(I probably won't be posting very much, but at least now I've said hello.)



-maeglhaw

Since there has been relatively little traffic on Elfing lately, I

think that this is a good time to introduce myself.

I became interested in Elvish first through the Tengwar. I wanted a

method of writing that would be difficult for anyone to read without

them taking plenty of time to decipher it. I considered inventing my

own, but when I found the Tengwar I was very impressed both with their

pleasing shapes and their being based on the relationship between

sounds.

I became interested in the languages themselves a few years ago. I

pored over the Mr. Fauskanger's Quenya course--but I didn't do any

exercises. My interest faded and I didn't restart my study of Quenya

until recently. I completed the exercises dutifully and started to

translate a few texts.

Besides Quenya, my native language is English. I can speak Spanish

well and read it at a level that would probably be considered fluent.

I have also studied Chinese formally and informally. (I posted the

note about similarities to Mandarin Chinese.) Spanish and Chinese made

it clear to me that there are other many ways of stating ideas in

different languages; you are unlikely to find me translating English

idioms or word order literally into Quenya.

------------------------Herenvarno------------------------------------

Sí omentielvë.

Welcome to the elflings list. We are actually all still here, just busy of

course :)

I was actually just looking into learning Tengwar calligraphy today, and

you're definitely right. It is a wonderful form of transcription.



On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM, iroquen <iroquen@...> wrote:



> Since there has been relatively little traffic on Elfing lately, I

> think that this is a good time to introduce myself.

> I became interested in Elvish first through the Tengwar. I wanted a

> method of writing that would be difficult for anyone to read without

> them taking plenty of time to decipher it. I considered inventing my

> own, but when I found the Tengwar I was very impressed both with their

> pleasing shapes and their being based on the relationship between

> sounds.

> I became interested in the languages themselves a few years ago. I

> pored over the Mr. Fauskanger's Quenya course--but I didn't do any

> exercises. My interest faded and I didn't restart my study of Quenya

> until recently. I completed the exercises dutifully and started to

> translate a few texts.

> Besides Quenya, my native language is English. I can speak Spanish

> well and read it at a level that would probably be considered fluent.

> I have also studied Chinese formally and informally. (I posted the

> note about similarities to Mandarin Chinese.) Spanish and Chinese made

> it clear to me that there are other many ways of stating ideas in

> different languages; you are unlikely to find me translating English

> idioms or word order literally into Quenya.

> ------------------------Herenvarno------------------------------------

> Sí omentielvë.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

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>

>

>

>





--

And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of

sleep;

for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.





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