On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:05 PM, narfinde <narfinde@...> wrote:
> 'nauvan' 'nauvanye'
>
> Same thing? '-nye' is just the formal. Correct? I need Another
> syllable and '-nye' would work famously.
>
>

The -nye pronominal suffix is useful when you attach other pronominal
suffixes to it, as in _ut�vienyes_. Otherwise the -n will work just
fine.

It also comes in handy like so. If I wanted to say "I want to learn", I
could either say:
"Merin noly�" or "Meriny� noly�"
It's nice to have the extra -y� when the next word begins in a consonant.
That's just how I feel about it anyway :)

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Vicente Velasco <rashbold@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:05 PM, narfinde <narfinde@...> wrote:
> > 'nauvan' 'nauvanye'
> >
> > Same thing? '-nye' is just the formal. Correct? I need Another
> > syllable and '-nye' would work famously.
> >
> >
>
> The -nye pronominal suffix is useful when you attach other pronominal
> suffixes to it, as in _ut�vienyes_. Otherwise the -n will work just
> fine.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
> Manager address: elfling-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Unsub address: elfling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Elfling welcome:
http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfling.html<http://www.terracom.net/%7Edoroth\
ea/elfling.html>
> Elfling FAQ: http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "meneldilv" <meneldilv@...> wrote:
>
> --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Roman Rausch" <aranwe@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <melroch@>
wrote:
> > > It has to be pointed out however that no European language
> > > has a clusivitivty distinction in first person plural, but
> > > Quenya has, so unless T. reinvented the distinction himself,
> > > which is unlikely, he must have read about its existence
> > > in some extra-European language, e.g. Malay.
> >
> > It seems that you're right, see PE17:135:
> > 'There are other features of course that are unusual, mostly not
> > European, such as [...]'
> > In the following list, the inclusive/exclusive distinction is
> > mentioned. But this is grammar; is there any phonological
influence as
> > well?
> >
> > RR.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, I think that prenasalised stops are indeed only probable
> non-european phonological influence. I'd say that Tolkien's sound
> systems are usually quite simple. Black speech has quite an
> unremarkable inventory, but it still manages to sound ugly... I
guess
> it's talent :)
>
> As for grammar, polypersonal agreement is also quite rare among
> European languages. I don't know any Basque, but if I remember
> correctly, I read that the conjugated verb agrees with subject,
direct
> object and indirect object. And there is also object agreement -
> perhaps more significantly - in Hungarian. Verb is inflected for the
> definiteness of the object, and in one case the person.
> Of course, polypersonal agreement is a lot more frequent phenomenon
> among Caucasian languages, but I think that they are usually not
> included into the "European language" label. I guess that the term
> would become typologically too vacuous if they were :)
>
> btw. Chinese example is even more unremarkable than it may seem:
> Wiktionary gives the word as either kan1 or kan4 in pinyin, which
> would mean that the first consonant doesn't quite match, it's
actually
> aspirated.
>
I have one question on this theme. Did Jhon R.R. Tolkien knew
Mandarin Chinese? If he did knew this language, it may be possible
that Arda languages have some Chinese influence. But if you have not
information about this Tolkien`s knowledge, Chinese influence will be
only accidental coincidence...
Some investigators of Tolkien languages have theories about influence
of many rare Earth languages in Arda languages - like Shumerian,
Hurritic, Persian. But did Tolkien knew this languages?
P.S. I am really sorry for my bad English.

I don't know if you are aware of "Lalaith"'s excelent Edainic Etymologies
article at http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Fr_Atani.html

She tried to reconstruct Mannish etymologies and deduct etymological root stems

However there is a problem with the Rohirric entries with loh-; she traces the
root of 'loho' stem as LOH

LOH despite mentioned here and there, does not have an entry of its own.
Furthermore it is not red so that means it's a root given by Tolkien and not
deducted by herself.

Yet I am not aware that Tolkien ever gave this root since it's not where the
derivative words themselves appear.

What is its source?



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That's a very nice observation. Chance resemblances between unrelated languages
are very probable. Tolkien studied several reported languages and there is no
doubt for this. I believe his position as a Uni Professor would allow him to
have some contact with a variety of scripts and languages, no matter how
superficially, which would be enough to inspire him.

Don't imagine something far fetched like for example, that he found and studied
some Persian text in a university library! If you read any simple history book
you will find in it various 'alien' names of kings and if you are lucky enough,
even their meanings. So it's not impossible for you to get familiarized with few
Persian or Sumerian names and make up some words that look or sound like them.




________________________________
From: naugperedel <naugperedel@...>
To: elfling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 5:42:05 PM
Subject: [elfling] Re: Mandarin Chinese influence?


Some investigators of Tolkien languages have theories about influence
of many rare Earth languages in Arda languages - like Shumerian,
Hurritic, Persian. But did Tolkien knew this languages?
P.S. I am really sorry for my bad English.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sindarin compound noun for Sword of the Wizard/Wizard Sword?

Maglaithron

Magolithron

Thanks,
David

I just wanted to follow up with my original hasty query...Sorry...

Much of the resources I have discovered online give rules for Sindarin
compound nouns (well nouns compounded with adjectives) as an
Adjective+Noun relationship.  I have found however, on Ardalambion the
example for Noun+Adjective relationship with Black Sword translated as
Magladhûr.

If I want to compound Wizard and Sword when do I throw out what seems
the convention for Adj+Noun and use Noun+Adj?

Ithronvegil or Maglaithron or Magolithron?

All seem to have the potential of being correct.  Perhaps with the
"naming" of something it matters less?

Thanks for any insight,
David

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "David" <wigdawei@...> wrote:
>
> Sindarin compound noun for Sword of the Wizard/Wizard Sword?
>
> Maglaithron
>
> Magolithron
>
> Thanks,
> David
>

Since there has been relatively little traffic on Elfing lately, I
think that this is a good time to introduce myself.
I became interested in Elvish first through the Tengwar. I wanted a
method of writing that would be difficult for anyone to read without
them taking plenty of time to decipher it. I considered inventing my
own, but when I found the Tengwar I was very impressed both with their
pleasing shapes and their being based on the relationship between
sounds.
I became interested in the languages themselves a few years ago. I
pored over the Mr. Fauskanger's Quenya course--but I didn't do any
exercises. My interest faded and I didn't restart my study of Quenya
until recently. I completed the exercises dutifully and started to
translate a few texts.
Besides Quenya, my native language is English. I can speak Spanish
well and read it at a level that would probably be considered fluent.
I have also studied Chinese formally and informally. (I posted the
note about similarities to Mandarin Chinese.) Spanish and Chinese made
it clear to me that there are other many ways of stating ideas in
different languages; you are unlikely to find me translating English
idioms or word order literally into Quenya.
------------------------Herenvarno------------------------------------
S� omentielv�.

Mr. Fauskanger and I worked together (that is, I wrote the first
draft, and he corrected it [and it needed lots of correcting]) on a
translation of the Babel Text into Quenya, now available at this URL:
http://www.omniglot.com/babel/quenya.htm
This translation takes into account the original Hebrew and is fairly
conservative in its use of neologisms. The translation on Omniglot
before was obsoleted by material published after it. It is available
at this URL:
http://www.langmaker.com/babel/quenya.htm

I also noticed that Omniglot does not have a Sindarin Babel text. I
have endeavored to do a Sindarin translation as well. I am looking for
comments here; I'm unsure about the whole thing, especially with words
with an asterisk. Some of these are neologisms; others are strange
phrasings, etc. It basically follows the Quenya translation. I will
try to glean from your responses what the majority opinion is and for
the most part conform my translation to it. Here it is: (Genesis 11:1-
9)
1. Ah i geven bant garn lam erui a bith imin.
>And the whole Earth had a single language and the same words.
2. A marthant* ir bennir e Thr�n i adanath hirnir* dalath vi Sinar, a
barnir* ennas.
>And [it] happened when they went from the West that the men found a
valley in Shinar, and they dwelt there.
3. A pennir pen na ben eis*, "Tolo, men caro dilair* a dosta hain
mhae;" ah iuthiannir dilair be hern a morchim* be delarchim*.
>And they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and burn then
well;" and they used bricks like stones and bitumen like mortar.
4.Pennir, "Tolo, men carasto* ammen ost a mhindon garel dh�l* d�n vi
mhenel, a men caro eneth ammen, egor natha gwinnen men* tr� geven."
>They said, "come, let us build for ourselves a city and a tower
having its head in [the] Sky, and let us make a name for ourselves, or
we will be scattered through[out] the Earth.
5.Ah Eru pembant* a thirid* i ost ah i mhindon i adanath carastannir*,
>And God descended for to see the city and the tower that Men made,
6. Ah Eru pent, "�l, sain [na] gwaith [with na, 'waith] erui, a sain
b�n garnir lam erui, a si [na] i nad mhinui i cerir; si �nad* i merir
ceri natha an hain* �ceridrail*.
>And God said, "Behold, they {are} a single people, and they all have
a single language and this {is} the first thing that they do; now
nothing that they want to do will be impossible for them.
7. Tolo, men pembado a cerim rungen* lam h�n*, i �-chenia pen i bith o
phen* eis.
>"Come, let us descend and confuse (make confused) their language, [in
order] that one does not understand the words of another."
8. Ah Eru gwinnant hain o ennas tr� i balath ceven a darnir carasta i
ost.
>And God scattered them from there through[out] the face of [the]
Earth, and they stopped building the city.
9. An thaw*, pen anna han i eneth "Bavel," an ennas Eru carn rungen
laim ceven bant, a taw gwinnant hain tr� geven.
>Therefore, it is given (one gives it) the name "Babel," for there God
confused (made confused) the languages of the whole Earth, and thence
he scattered then through[out] the Earth.
If you have questions about neologisms, ask me; most of them are
extrapolated Quenya cognates.-------------Herenvarno---------------

Welcome to the elflings list. We are actually all still here, just busy of
course :)
I was actually just looking into learning Tengwar calligraphy today, and
you're definitely right. It is a wonderful form of transcription.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:28 PM, iroquen <iroquen@...> wrote:

> Since there has been relatively little traffic on Elfing lately, I
> think that this is a good time to introduce myself.
> I became interested in Elvish first through the Tengwar. I wanted a
> method of writing that would be difficult for anyone to read without
> them taking plenty of time to decipher it. I considered inventing my
> own, but when I found the Tengwar I was very impressed both with their
> pleasing shapes and their being based on the relationship between
> sounds.
> I became interested in the languages themselves a few years ago. I
> pored over the Mr. Fauskanger's Quenya course--but I didn't do any
> exercises. My interest faded and I didn't restart my study of Quenya
> until recently. I completed the exercises dutifully and started to
> translate a few texts.
> Besides Quenya, my native language is English. I can speak Spanish
> well and read it at a level that would probably be considered fluent.
> I have also studied Chinese formally and informally. (I posted the
> note about similarities to Mandarin Chinese.) Spanish and Chinese made
> it clear to me that there are other many ways of stating ideas in
> different languages; you are unlikely to find me translating English
> idioms or word order literally into Quenya.
> ------------------------Herenvarno------------------------------------
> S� omentielv�.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
> Manager address: elfling-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Unsub address: elfling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Elfling welcome:
http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfling.html<http://www.terracom.net/%7Edoroth\
ea/elfling.html>
> Elfling FAQ: http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Taking iroquen's lead, I feel it is necessary to finally introduce
myself, a longtime follower of Elfling, and Mr. Fauskanger and
Thorsten's work.

I first became interested in the tongues of Arda long ago, when I was
younger.  I have been always interested in languages and Linguistics,
and initially took up study in Linguistics as a way to learn more
about my beloved languages, and better methods of learning language.
Since that time, my interest has become passion, and passion, life.
It is a lifelong endeavour of mine to rekindle enthusiasm in others
for language, and to further better methods of language pedagogy.  If
I must summarise my language-learning experience, I will give a brief
overview (language [years]): English [mother], German [15+], Japanese
[12+], French [8], Spanish [6], Afrikaans [4], Dutch [2], Mandarin
Chinese [2], Korean [1], Old English [6], Latin [4], Middle Egyptian
[2], Sahidic Coptic [1], Gaelic (Scots) [3], Gaelic (Irish) [1], Welsh
[2].

Languages I plan  to undertake/in progress: Koine Greek, Hebrew,
Arabic, Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic, Italian, Finnish.

Regardless, much like Tolkien, I was ever the inventor with new
creations of speech, but I certainly have not yet had the fortitude to
complete the task of a groundwork for grammar and vocabulary as he
has.  I owe a lot to him in terms of inspiration and pure desire.

As for his works, Quenya is my deepest love.  Not only the
completeness of it, but the inspiration and grammar of it entices me
as well.  In some ways, I find it more beautiful than Sindarin, but
that is a purely subjective stance.  Having been inspired by the
groundwork laid out by members on this list, I, too have turned
towards scholarly education on all things Arda.  I have been dutifully
purchasing and reading through all the original texts as best I can,
and gleaning insight into the machinations behind the language
creation.  Of course, this level of information is not entirely
necessary for developing and learning Quenya, but nevertheless.

As I live in Hawai'i, I have firsthand experience and academic
experience with language revitalisation and conservation.  It is my
deep desire to use this knowledge and help expand Quenya and create a
strong basis for it to be used more and more in daily life.  A
far-fetched dream, maybe, and not one without a slew of complications
and problems.  But it will not deter me.

I salute you all in your fantastic work you have completed, and for
all the effort everyone puts forth.  I will be more inquisitive on the
list from time to time, as there are far more intelligent people on
here to help with my feeble understanding.

Mahalo nui loa

Suilad,

I noticed that of the verb "to flee" there is only the imperative
attested _drego_ and the opinions thus differ on whether it would be
an i-verb or an a-verb:

according to Hisweloke:
*drega- S. [drˈɛgɑ] v. to flee ◈ Only the imperative drego is
attested. Therefore, the verb may also be dreg- (inf. dregi) ◈ drego
S. v. imp.

while Pedin Edhellen  lists "dreg- to flee".

Does anyone have thoughts about which form might be preferable?

garo hîdh,
- l

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "iroquen" <iroquen@...> wrote:
>
The translation on Omniglot
> before was obsoleted by material published after it.


It appears,however, as though your Sindarin translation does *not*
include findings from recently published material (namely from PE17),
regarding both vocabulary and grammar.
For instance, regarding vocabulary: The obsolete Quenya translation
gives _arne_ where the new one has _sámë_. One might likewise
consider the use of _aw_ (PE17:173) instead of _garn_ .

Regarding grammar, it is particularly noticeable that more recent
findings regarding Sindarin past tense formation have been ignored. You
may want to read this article
<http://www.phy.duke.edu/%7Etrenk/elvish/sindarin_past_tense.html>  .


Miscellaneous:
Many actually unattested words are not marked with asterisks, e.g.
_*?imin_, _*?gwinnen_,_*?merir_ etc.
Most of the asterisked words seem to require etymological/phonological
explanation (and probably correction or replacement), in my opinion.
There are many details that should be reviewed (or at least discussed),
for instance the translation of the phrase "let us...", etc.


All in all, I would suggest that you post your translation verse by
verse, including data from recent publications and thorough explanations
of the neologisms.
Regards,
Erna









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iroquen,
my question is not about the Sindarin (I gave up on that some time
ago) but the English version of the Bible, and the Quenya on Omniglot.
My Bible (Revised English Version) says they were "travelling in the
East", your Quenya says _Romello_ meaning "from the East" and yet
this says  "From the West".  Is it a typo, or a deliberate change?

Could you also explain for me the words "saame" and "samir" in your
Quenya version.

Nai elen estelo siluva tielyanna!

Tuilinde

Ooops!  Forget the query about _saame_  I've just found it in Helge's
list!!!   I blame my age, or my eyes when I go through the lists and
can't see what I'm looking for!  You can blame anything you like, I
just can't see the wood for the trees.

Tuilinde

I'm trying to translate some English text into Quenya. Here is the English
text:
"Left my fear by the side of the road"

What I've come up with so far is this:
"Hehtanen caurenya r�nass� i tieo*"
which more directly translates to "I abandoned my fears on the edge of the
road" (I think). Is this right?

I'm wary of using something like "tieo," it doesn't sound like it could be a
legal Quenya word.

Limb� Hantir!
   - TK

--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tyler,  There's nothing wrong with _tieo_ but if it doesn't sound
euphonious to you you could use the word _malle_ instead which means
_street, road_ and that would avoid having so many vowels together
when you say _malleo_.  I hope that helps,

Nai elen estelo siluva tielyanna!

Tuilinde

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Kocheran <rfkrocktk@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to translate some English text into Quenya. Here is the
English
> text:
> "Left my fear by the side of the road"
>
> What I've come up with so far is this:
> "Hehtanen caurenya r�nass� i tieo*"
> which more directly translates to "I abandoned my fears on the edge
of the
> road" (I think). Is this right?
>
> I'm wary of using something like "tieo," it doesn't sound like it
could be a
> legal Quenya word.
>
> Limb� Hantir!
>   - TK
>
> --
> And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake
out of
> sleep;
> for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

hi all! I am new to this mailing list. I am planning on getting a tattoo on my
wrist with the names of my two children in quenya, spelled out in tengwar.

I went about this by translating their names first: one translates into "star"
and one into "sun" or "radiant one" or "ray of light".

star, as I have found, is "elen" in quenya. is this correct? (in this case I
will stick with the noun "star" and not turn it into an actual name, seeing as I
do not know the gender of this baby, which I have lost very early on.)

now, as for the other name, I have found the quenya word "alca" to mean "ray of
light". a website I have found suggests "Alce" or "Alcie" for a female name with
that word stem.

would this be correct?

alternatively, I found "firin" to mean "ray of the sun", or "anar" or "urin" to
mean the sun itself. how could these words be turned into female names? would
"Urwen" be a proper female name meaning "sun"?


now, utilizing the tengwar transcriber at
http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php, I get

`VjR5 for Elen and
`Cj3�F for Alcie

I have downloaded the font Tengwar Quenya in order to get the correct letters.

obviously, it is pretty important to me that I get this right - I wouldn't want
to run around with wrong words spelled wrongly embedded beneath the skin for the
rest of my life. I would appreciate any input you can give me on this.

thanks a lot in advance! :-)

andi
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would use possesive case instead of genitive: _r�nasse i ti�va_. It
doesn't produce unusual vowel groups and, in my opinion, it fits this
sense better. :)
However, if we were to put the word _tie_ in the genitive case, I
doubt we could make up something better than _tieo_ ...
Quenduluin


--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Kocheran <rfkrocktk@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to translate some English text into Quenya. Here is the
English
> text:
> "Left my fear by the side of the road"
>
> What I've come up with so far is this:
> "Hehtanen caurenya r�nass� i tieo*"
> which more directly translates to "I abandoned my fears on the edge
of the
> road" (I think). Is this right?
>
> I'm wary of using something like "tieo," it doesn't sound like it
could be a
> legal Quenya word.
>
> Limb� Hantir!
>   - TK
>
> --
> And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake
out of
> sleep;
> for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you all so much for your input and help, this clarifies things a lot!
I guess I still don't completely understand the genitive case. I've been
taking Helge's course, and I don't think I've gotten to that lesson yet.
What I understood the genitive case as was that "ciryo" would be "of a ship"
in English, as in "I live inside *of a ship*" (though that's a weird example
that could probably translated into Quenya by using the locative case...) or
"I painted the walls *of a ship*". I understood the possessive case
"ciryava" as meaning "a ship's," as in "I painted *a ship's* walls" or "The
*ship's* crew." I thought it'd be pretty interchangable depending on how you
constructed your sentence, like "the floor *of a ship*" vs. "the
*ship's*floor." The reason I used genitive in translation is that the
English
translation of the verse is "Left my fear by the side *of the road*," not
"Left my fear by the *road's* side," but maybe I should translate it as
possessive...

Is that correct for using the genitive and possessive cases? Am I getting it
right? :)

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 5:12 AM, quenduluin <quenduluin@...> wrote:

> I would use possesive case instead of genitive: _r�nasse i ti�va_. It
> doesn't produce unusual vowel groups and, in my opinion, it fits this
> sense better. :)
> However, if we were to put the word _tie_ in the genitive case, I
> doubt we could make up something better than _tieo_ ...
> Quenduluin
>
>
> --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Kocheran <rfkrocktk@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to translate some English text into Quenya. Here is the
> English
> > text:
> > "Left my fear by the side of the road"
> >
> > What I've come up with so far is this:
> > "Hehtanen caurenya r�nass� i tieo*"
> > which more directly translates to "I abandoned my fears on the edge
> of the
> > road" (I think). Is this right?
> >
> > I'm wary of using something like "tieo," it doesn't sound like it
> could be a
> > legal Quenya word.
> >
> > Limb� Hantir!
> >   - TK
> >
> > --
> > And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake
> out of
> > sleep;
> > for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
> Manager address: elfling-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Unsub address: elfling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Elfling welcome:
http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfling.html<http://www.terracom.net/%7Edoroth\
ea/elfling.html>
> Elfling FAQ: http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello All!

I have just finished (if you can call anything considering Tolkienian
linguistics ever 'finished'!) a little list I've been working on for
years. It is a compilation of Primitive Elvish Affixes, the methods
of their use, and the apparent denotations they hold. It is far from
perfect or complete. I still have the adverb and verb affixes to go,
and I would greatly appreciate help on these! I hope that readers
will review this and let me know if anything needs to be changed,
removed, or added.
	 The goal here is to put together a complete list based on the
information we have; and that's what I have attempted to do. I hope
it will be helpful to at least some of you. And I will definitely
appreciate ALOT of input!

As I'm not sure of how to upload a file to the FILES folder, or even
if that is allowed anymore, you can just drop me an email saying
you'd like to take a look and I will send it to you. It is a '.doc'
file, just in case you wanted to know.

Thanks!
BJ WARD

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "David" <wigdawei@...> wrote:
>
> Sindarin compound noun for Sword of the Wizard/Wizard Sword?
>
> Maglaithron
>
> Magolithron
>
> Thanks,
> David
>


Hey David,

I'm more of a suscriber to Quenya, but I'll give you my opinion. :)

You are probably looking for a one-word name; but, if not, you could
always use _Megil-en-Ithron_ "Sword of the Wizard". Also, on the same
token, you could delve into little known dialects and use a
Doriathrin name, Megil Ithrona. Though that is a little off the
beaten track!.

In my opinion, your best bet would be to use _Meglithron_, from
Primitive Quendian _*Makla-istarondo_. That's what I see as the best
option according to my aesthetics.

Hope that helps!

BJ WARD

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, ANDREA KRETTEK <quira00@...> wrote:
>
> hi all! I am new to this mailing list. I am planning on getting a
tattoo on my wrist with the names of my two children in quenya,
spelled out in tengwar.
>
> I went about this by translating their names first: one translates
into "star" and one into "sun" or "radiant one" or "ray of light".
>
> star, as I have found, is "elen" in quenya. is this correct? (in
this case I will stick with the noun "star" and not turn it into an
actual name, seeing as I do not know the gender of this baby, which I
have lost very early on.)
>
> now, as for the other name, I have found the quenya word "alca" to
mean "ray of light". a website I have found suggests "Alce"
or "Alcie" for a female name with that word stem.
>
> would this be correct?
>
> alternatively, I found "firin" to mean "ray of the sun", or "anar"
or "urin" to mean the sun itself. how could these words be turned
into female names? would "Urwen" be a proper female name
meaning "sun"?
>
>
> now, utilizing the tengwar transcriber at
http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php, I get
>
> `VjR5 for Elen and
> `Cj3�F for Alcie
>
> I have downloaded the font Tengwar Quenya in order to get the
correct letters.
>
> obviously, it is pretty important to me that I get this right - I
wouldn't want to run around with wrong words spelled wrongly embedded
beneath the skin for the rest of my life. I would appreciate any
input you can give me on this.
>
> thanks a lot in advance! :-)
>
> andi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Andi,

You are correct, _Elen_ would work famously.
For the female, I would suggest something like _Anarien_ or the like.
I would definitely avoid using anything that incorporates _firin_, as
that word in Tolkien's later Quenya had connotations of "death"
and "fading".

Also, just a heads-up on the Tengwar fonts. You might already know
this, but just in case: you cannot just type in the letters you want
to appear. The elvish letters are assigned to different keys than the
English.

If you'd like, you could email me the names you have decided on, and
I could send you back a picture of the Tengwar for them. :)
Just a thought!

Hope This Helped!

BJ WARD

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, maike <maike.dulk@...> wrote:
>
> Suilad,
>
> I noticed that of the verb "to flee" there is only the imperative
> attested _drego_ and the opinions thus differ on whether it would
be
> an i-verb or an a-verb:
>
> according to Hisweloke:
> *drega- S. [drˈɛg�`] v. to flee ◈ Only the imperative drego is
> attested. Therefore, the verb may also be dreg- (inf. dregi) ◈
drego
> S. v. imp.
>
> while Pedin Edhellen  lists "dreg- to flee".
>
> Does anyone have thoughts about which form might be preferable?
>
> garo hîdh,
> - l
>


Suilad,

In these cases, I usually resort to the tactics Tolkien himself did.
Which of these is the most aesthetically pleasing to YOU?. Both of
these forms would be plausible in Sindarin, assuming this verb comes
from a stem _*√DER�K_ or the like. Both verb forms could be derived:
1. *derek�-,with addition of the final long _�_, or
2. *derek-, the bare stem used as a verb.

Until further information becomes available, you should just take
your pick!:) I myself would use _drega-_, as I think the past tense
_dregant_ is more appealing than _edhreng_ or _dreng_, but that's
just my opinion.

That's my two cents worth!
BJ WARD

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "quenduluin" <quenduluin@...> wrote:

> However, if we were to put the word _tie_ in the genitive case, I
> doubt we could make up something better than _tieo_ ...

Well, one could still make it _*ti�o_...

PE17:58-59 also mentions that abstracts and verbals can have extended
parallel forms with _-n_, as _m�rie||m�rien_ 'goodness', genitive
_m�ri�no_, _R�me_, _R�men_, genitive _r�meno_, _r�meo_. However, _tie_
is apparently neither abstract nor verbal, it just coincidentally
shares the same suffix. Still, perhaps the same rule might apply by
analogy?

RR.

Yeah, to me "ti�o" would probably make the most sense audibly.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Roman Rausch <aranwe@...> wrote:

> --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "quenduluin" <quenduluin@...> wrote:
>
> > However, if we were to put the word _tie_ in the genitive case, I
> > doubt we could make up something better than _tieo_ ...
>
> Well, one could still make it _*ti�o_...
>
> PE17:58-59 also mentions that abstracts and verbals can have extended
> parallel forms with _-n_, as _m�rie||m�rien_ 'goodness', genitive
> _m�ri�no_, _R�me_, _R�men_, genitive _r�meno_, _r�meo_. However, _tie_
> is apparently neither abstract nor verbal, it just coincidentally
> shares the same suffix. Still, perhaps the same rule might apply by
> analogy?
>
> RR.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> --
> Manager address: elfling-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Unsub address: elfling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Elfling welcome:
http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfling.html<http://www.terracom.net/%7Edoroth\
ea/elfling.html>
> Elfling FAQ: http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there

I would be very interested to see your work and see if I can help

Since almost everyone nowadays has some webspace, I suggest you upload your text
in some blog. If you don't have a blog and you have a Google account, you could
use Google Docs, it's quite simple.




________________________________
From: faelach12 <bward@...>
To: elfling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:05:17 PM
Subject: [elfling] Primitive Elvish Affixes - A little work of mine!



Hello All!

I have just finished (if you can call anything considering Tolkienian
linguistics ever 'finished'!) a little list I've been working on for
years. It is a compilation of Primitive Elvish Affixes, the methods
of their use, and the apparent denotations they hold. It is far from
perfect or complete. I still have the adverb and verb affixes to go,
and I would greatly appreciate help on these! I hope that readers
will review this and let me know if anything needs to be changed,
removed, or added.
The goal here is to put together a complete list based on the
information we have; and that's what I have attempted to do. I hope
it will be helpful to at least some of you. And I will definitely
appreciate ALOT of input!

As I'm not sure of how to upload a file to the FILES folder, or even
if that is allowed anymore, you can just drop me an email saying
you'd like to take a look and I will send it to you. It is a '.doc'
file, just in case you wanted to know.

Thanks!
BJ WARD






___________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there a special format for transcribing Quenya diphthongs? I just ran my
name "tailer" (ai sounds like the "y" of Tyler in Quenya, right?) through
the online Tengwar transcriber located here:
http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php

This is what I got:
http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/obrazek.php?f=q&s=20&t=MWBDalQ2Ug==

In my own course of study, it seemed to me that in Quenya you can stack
vowels on top of a consonant and below one. Based on that information, I
imagined that I could do something like this. Tengwar symbol for the letter
T (tinco) with a "a" vowel beneath it and a "i" letter above it, followed by
a "l" (lambe)  with an "e" vowel above it, followed by a "r" (r�men). It
kind of looks like the attached image.

Which is more correct? I've been learning Quenya for some time, but I'm kind
of new to Tengwar transcription.

- TK

--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here's my first attempt at a real translation of english text. This was
really challenging for me, but here it is:

http://quettar.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/romans-1311/

If you find a bad translation, please either reply to this email or you can
leave me a comment on the blog itself.

Thanks,
  - TK

--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of
sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone know of a Quenya verb for the concept of needing or
requiring something? I couldn't find anything in any of the wordlists
in my 'library.' I of course discovered the word for 'a need,' which
is the word 'maur�.' Would it be possible to derive a verb 'maur-' or
'maura-' from this?

Thanks,
  - TK

--
Sent from my mobile device

And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.