If anyone knows, how to translate "slippery" (think i wrote it right), that

is i.e. walls which are slippery because rain fell on them.

-------------

The other, what do you think is a better traslation of raindrop: limba or

nieninwa (compund made analogicly to "snowdrop" which is nieninque, you can

replace ninwa with any other word for blue)? Is it attested that limba

really directs to a drop OF WATER?

------------

The third, what do you think of this translation:



Sie quete i apaken Mandosto i eques Valmaresse i námanen Valaron, ar

navillor sao lussar imíka ilye Eldar Númeno: íre Ambar yeryuva ar Valar

lumbe nauvar, táre Moringotto atatúluva ter' i Ando i Lúmelóra Morello; ar

askatuva Anar ar Isil, mal Earendil tuluva eryenna úrwea ninque ar niruvas i

fanyarello. Métima Mahtale hostuva i palúrissen Valinóro. Enyáre Tulkas

ohtuva Melkon, ar sen foryasse euva Eonwe, ar hyaryasse Túrin Turambar,

yondo Húrino, Apaityamo Umbaro, ar nauvas i morimakil Túrinwa ya tulyuva i

Moringotto qualmenn' ar métima mettanna, ar sie híni Húrino ar ilye atani

nauvar atakarne (or is it atharne, akkarne?).



Thus spoke the prophecy of Mandos, which he declared in Valmar at the

judgment of the Gods, and the rumour of it was whispered among all the Elves

of the West: when the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth

shall come back through the Door out of the Timeless Night; and he shall

destroy the Sun and the Moon, but Eärendel shall come upon him as a white

flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the last battle be gathered on

the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on

his right shall stand Fionwë and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin,

Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Túrin that deals unto

Melko his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all

men be avenged.



I know that used some pretty delicate words, any better options would be

appreciated.

----------

Forth and last, if a pronouon which signifies PLURAL is added to a word, is

the word declinated in singular or plural?

Good day,



--- Rainalcar <temp@...> wrote:



> If anyone knows, how to translate "slippery"



Haven't found any references, maybe the Qenya Lexicon

can help (which I don't have).



  Is it

> attested that limba

> really directs to a drop OF WATER?



Never seen it attested outside the Etym, where it says

"a drop".







> Sie quete i apaken Mandosto i eques Valmaresse i

> námanen Valaron, ar

> navillor sao lussar imíka ilye Eldar Númeno:



- quente (spoke)

- what's *navillor supposed to be?

- *sao looks awkward (o usually merges with a

preceding, cf. the genitive of nouns in -a), rather

*sava or *so



  íre

> Ambar yeryuva ar Valar

> lumbe nauvar, táre Moringotto atatúluva ter' i Ando

> i Lúmelóra Morello;



- or maybe *entuluva



  ar

> askatuva Anar ar Isil, mal Earendil tuluva eryenna

> úrwea ninque ar niruvas i

> fanyarello.



- how about *lantuva eryenna "fall upon him"

- I'd propose *ve ninque úre/náre instead



  Métima Mahtale hostuva i palúrissen

> Valinóro. Enyáre Tulkas

> ohtuva Melkon,



- why dative?



  ar sen foryasse euva Eonwe,



-sen?

- *euva is unattested, _nauva_ is attested, would that

do?



  ar

> hyaryasse Túrin Turambar,

> yondo Húrino, Apaityamo Umbaro,



- umbarto



  ar nauvas i

> morimakil Túrinwa ya tulyuva i

> Moringotto qualmenn' ar métima mettanna, ar sie híni

> Húrino ar ilye atani

> nauvar atakarne (or is it atharne, akkarne?).



- did you mean *tulyuva (lead, bring)?





Shine on,



Thomas Ferencz



  -- love is the shadow that ripens the wine --



Let's discuss Eldarin languages - http://aglardh.middangeard.hu









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--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Atwe <percival64@y...> wrote:

> Good day,

>

> --- Rainalcar <temp@e...> wrote:

>

> > If anyone knows, how to translate "slippery"

>

> Haven't found any references, maybe the Qenya Lexicon

> can help (which I don't have).

>

I find no such word in the QL or anywhere else. I think the closest

one could get to an overall word would be to coin a word *taltima

from Et. talta "slip, slide" and the suffix -ima (see "Quenya

Suffixes" on Ardalambion) which would mean "tending to slip/slide

down" or "slipping, sliding," etc. and extend this to mean "causing

one to slip" (cf. French glissant, "sliding" or "slippery") where

the context would show that the second meaning and not the first was

intended. In the example you give, "walls which are slippery

(because rain fell on them)" *taltima would be misleading, implying

that the walls themselves were tottering or ready to fall rather

than that someone would lose their hold on them, and a paraphrase

would be better:



rambar *yanna(r)/yassen (or *yallo(r))queen polle (quiita)

talta, "walls upon (or from) which a person could (/might) slip."



or: rambar acca paste (or mixe or *raxie < *raxea) vantien (or

mapien, ronien/*rostien, etc.), "walls too smooth (or wet or

dangerous or a combination of these ideas) for walking (or seizing,

ascending)," etc.)



or something like that.

Thx Quildarener, now this is last, if you could answer me, or anyone else:

Forth and last, if a pronouon which signifies PLURAL is added to a word, is

the word declinated in singular or plural?

I just want a confirmation can this vary or is it always the same number,

cause i think i can guess the answer...

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "Rainalcar" <temp@e...> wrote:

> Thx Quildarener, now this is last, if you could answer me, or anyone

else:

> Forth and last, if a pronouon which signifies PLURAL is added to a

word, is

> the word declinated in singular or plural?

> I just want a confirmation can this vary or is it always the same

number,

> cause i think i can guess the answer...



Not sure what you mean. Can you give me an example?

> > Thx Quildarener, now this is last, if you could answer me, or anyone

> else:

> > Forth and last, if a pronouon which signifies PLURAL is added to a

> word, is

> > the word declinated in singular or plural?

> > I just want a confirmation can this vary or is it always the same

> number,

> > cause i think i can guess the answer...

>

> Not sure what you mean. Can you give me an example?



sorry quildarener i wrote it totaly wrong, don't know what I was thinking;

here goes an example: if you have an independent pronoun te 'they' and

declinate it in allative, do you get tenna or tennar? In other words, is the

plural marked?

> sorry quildarener i wrote it totaly wrong, don't know what I was

thinking;

> here goes an example: if you have an independent pronoun te 'they'

and

> declinate it in allative, do you get tenna or tennar? In other

words, is the

> plural marked?



As far as I know this point has not been settled and unless/until it

is, use of the plural suffix with pronouns is a matter of personal

preference.



Check Ardalambion's Quenya course under the case endings for Helge's

comments on this.

quildarener tence:



> > sorry quildarener i wrote it totaly wrong, don't know what I was

>thinking;

> > here goes an example: if you have an independent pronoun te 'they'

>and

> > declinate it in allative, do you get tenna or tennar? In other

>words, is the

> > plural marked?

>

>As far as I know this point has not been settled and unless/until it

>is, use of the plural suffix with pronouns is a matter of personal

>preference.



Also the allative of _te_ would probably be *_tienna[r?]_, since the

dative applied by Tolkien in Átaremma (VT43) is _tien_.





Elhath

> As far as I know this point has not been settled and unless/until it

> is, use of the plural suffix with pronouns is a matter of personal

> preference.

>

> Check Ardalambion's Quenya course under the case endings for Helge's

> comments on this.



VT44:12 _omesse_ 'on us', not _**omessen_ Cf.  for the discussion of

Quenya pronomial forms and their grammar

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/quenya_pronouns.html

which is, I believe, of a more recent publication date than Helge's Quenya

course.



>  if you have an independent pronoun te 'they'  and declinate it in

> allative, do you get tenna or tennar?



Maybe neither - the dative plural is _tien_ rather than _**ten_, so we

could expect _*tienna_ then rather than _?tenna_ - but then again, maybe

that incorporates a plural _i_ - in any case the system of Quenya pronouns

is far from being a consistent whole system, so who knows?



* Thorsten

Thorsten:

> VT44:12 _omesse_ 'on us', not _**omessen_ Cf.  for the discussion of

> Quenya pronomial forms and their grammar

> http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/quenya_pronouns.html

> which is, I believe, of a more recent publication date than Helge's Quenya

> course.



I believe the English word is "pronominal" rather than "pronomial" ( Cf. L

_pronomen_, _pronominalis_).



M

> I believe the English word is "pronominal" rather than "pronomial" ( Cf.

> L

> _pronomen_, _pronominalis_).



I believe you are right - although the latin example (unfortunately)

doesn't prove much for the use of English - cf. L: _visum pl. visa_ but

the English (American?) use _visa pl visas_.



Thanks!



* Thorsten

Thorsten:



> I believe you are right - although the latin example (unfortunately)

> doesn't prove much for the use of English - cf. L: _visum pl. visa_ but

> the English (American?) use _visa pl visas_.

>

> Thanks!

>

> * Thorsten



As far as I know, _visa_ is the feminine past participial form of _videre_;

English didn't adopt the noun _visum_ and radically change its form just to

tack on the enclitic, otherwise we might see _visums_*. The p.p. was adopted

into French and then ME, and its pluralization was regularized. On the other

hand, _pronominal_, along with other words in English, preserves the form

_nomen_ very well from the Latin, and that is the point (e.g.,

_nomenclature_, _nominal_, _nominative_). I included the forms _pronomen_

and _pronominalis_ simply to demonstrate my inability to see the evolution

_pronominalis_ >> _pronomial_* in favour of _pronominalis_ >> _pronominal_.

The example can be entirely disregarded so long as the message was clear.

That said, this is certainly not a Latin language list; I merely wanted to

point out the error in spelling in the article dealing with pronominal

matters in hopes that it might be corrected.



MJK

- quente (spoke)

I will still remain with aorist, nevertheless it's not a direct translation.



- what's *navillor supposed to be?

This is QL, I have nothing better, unfortunately...



- *sao looks awkward (o usually merges with a

preceding, cf. the genitive of nouns in -a), rather

*sava or *so

You are correct, this is *so



> Ambar yeryuva ar Valar

> lumbe nauvar, táre Moringotto atatúluva ter' i Ando

> i Lúmelóra Morello;



- or maybe *entuluva

This was proposed to me, I think i'll stick with atatuuluva (anyone knows

any attested example with this prefix?) so that no one would think this

means re- (although en- can stand here ofcourse)



> askatuva Anar ar Isil, mal Earendil tuluva eryenna

> úrwea ninque ar niruvas i

> fanyarello.

This I changed to Anar Isilye



- how about *lantuva eryenna "fall upon him"

- I'd propose *ve ninque úre/náre instead

donno really... 'force him from the sky' sounds better to me, i think

yes, ve ninque uure I had on my mind as well. I'll think about this.



  Métima Mahtale hostuva i palúrissen

> Valinóro. Enyáre Tulkas

> ohtuva Melkon,



- why dative?

Maybe i'm mistaking, but I heard that 'against' as well as 'for' of course

can be translated with dative case; since this is an indirect object, and

that is dative's main function. Anyway, as far as i know, there is no known

word for 'against'.



  ar sen foryasse euva Eonwe,



-sen?

- *euva is unattested, _nauva_ is attested, would that

do?

se+n, masculine 3rd person + dative (this is tricky i know, but i guess we

could have 'right to him stood Eonwe')

nauva is hardly appropriate because ea really signifies position... Yes, i

know that na has been attestted at the end of clauses to signify position,

but I like the postional difference of ea better.



  ar

> hyaryasse Túrin Turambar,

> yondo Húrino, Apaityamo Umbaro,



- umbarto

thx :)



  ar nauvas i

> morimakil Túrinwa ya tulyuva i

> Moringotto qualmenn' ar métima mettanna, ar sie híni

> Húrino ar ilye atani

> nauvar atakarne (or is it atharne, akkarne?).



- did you mean *tulyuva (lead, bring)?

i meant 'it will be the blacksword of Thurin which will lead to Melkor's

death...'





Anyway, this is a corrected translation, with some other things also

altered:

Sie quete apaken Mandosto i eques Valmaresse námanen Valaron, ar navillor so

lussane nar imíka ilye Eldar Númeno: íre Ambar yeryuva ar Valar lumbe

nauvar, Moringotto ter' i Ando atatúluva i Lúmelóra Morniello; ar Anar

Isilye askatuva, mal Earendil eryenna úrwea ninque tuluva ar niruvas i

fanyarello. San Mahtale Métima hostuva i palúrissen Valinóro. Enyáre Tulkas

ohtuva Melkon, ar sen foryasse euva Eonwe, ar hyaryasse Túrin Turambar,

yondo Húrino, Apaityamo Umbarto, ar erye nauva morímakil Túrinwa ya tulyuva

Moringotto qualmenn' ar métima mettanna, ar sie híni Húrino ar ilye atani

atakarne nauvar.



Silmarilli nantaluvar airello, kemello, ar menello; an Earendil untuluva ar

i náre ya tirne auantuva. San Feanáro pantuva i Nelde ar lavuva urunta

entintien i Aldu, ar altakále kaluva, ar Oronti Valinóro láratuva, sie i

kále pole palu ilya Ambarello. Kalmanen tana Valar envinyante nauvar, quendi

koivuvar, ar ilye hessantar amortuvar, ar i selma Ilúvataro tien nauva

telyaina. Mal atánion auresse tan' apaken ume quete, hequa Túrin, ar erye

imbi esta Valar.

I was wondering if anyone could help me in translating something into Quenya. 

The following is what I am trying to translate and then what I have so far in

Quenya.



Be faithful unto death, and (I will give you) the crown of life.



Na vórima tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë) ríë (ya-) cuilë.



There are two parts on which I keep getting confused. The first is the

conjugation of the simple future of anta- with the surrounding pronouns.I saw an

example of "I love you" conjugated similar to this so I attempted to do it this

way.

The second part is the use of the pronoun "of".  I believe "ya-" would be

correct to use here but I am unsure as to the placement.



Any help offered would be greatly appreciated.







The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar

territory.



---------------------------------

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  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Be faithful unto death, and (I will give you) the crown of life.

>Na vórima tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë) ríë (ya-) cuilë.



This is my first translation for anyone on this group, so some other opinion

would be recommendable:

Na vórima tenna qualme (or effírie, depends on the intended meaning), ar

antuvanye tyen i ríe kuileo/kuileva.



The important thing is that the pronoun "you" is an indirect object, and

therefore comes in dative.

The word kuile 'life' can come in genitive (-o) or passive (-va), depending on

the desired meaning: you can use

passive if 'life' is a permanent attribute of the crown, or genitive if the

crown is a source of life.

Instead of tye you can use lye if the adressing is on formal basis.



If you wish to use the empathic pronoun for "you" (although I don't think it's

neccessary), you could have:

Na vórima tenna qualme (or effírie, depends on the intended meaning), ar antuvan

etyen i ríe kuileo/kuileva.





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Be faithful unto death, and (I will give you) the crown of life.

>Na vórima tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë) ríë (ya-) cuilë.



This is my first translation for anyone on this group, so some other opinion

would be recommendable:

Na vórima tenna qualme (or effírie, depends on the intended meaning), ar

antuvanye tyen i ríe kuileo/kuileva.



The important thing is that the pronoun "you" is an indirect object, and

therefore comes in dative.

The word kuile 'life' can come in genitive (-o) or passive (-va), depending on

the desired meaning: you can use

passive if 'life' is a permanent attribute of the crown, or genitive if the

crown is a source of life.

Instead of tye you can use lye if the adressing is on formal basis.



If you wish to use the empathic pronoun for "you" (although I don't think it's

neccessary), you could have:

Na vórima tenna qualme (or effírie, depends on the intended meaning), ar antuvan

etyen i ríe kuileo/kuileva.





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been trying to teach myself a little bit of Elvish to try to translate

something from English to Quenya.  The following is what I tried to translate:



Be    faithful  unto death and (I will give you)

Na    veronda tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë)



the   crown of life.

i       ríë                 (-ya-) cuilë.





I was confused on two points (but probably wrong in more than one).  The frist

is where I had a simple future conjugated verb between two pronouns.  I believe

I cojugated the verb correctly (antuva-will give you) but I wasn't sure if I

should add the "I" pronoun to the end of the verb and have the "you" pronoun

precede the full conjugation or if it should be written differently.  The second

point was at the preposition.  I believe that "ya" is the correct form to use

but I am

confused as to where this form would go.



Any input would be helpful.









The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar

territory.



---------------------------------

  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,



--- Daniel King <placibonin@...> wrote:



> I've been trying to teach myself a little bit of

> Elvish to try to translate something from English to

> Quenya.  The following is what I tried to translate:

>

> Be    faithful  unto death and (I will give you)

> Na    veronda tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë)

>

> the   crown of life.

> i       ríë                 (-ya-) cuilë.

>



- the correct form for "faithful" would be _voronda_

- _qualme_ is specifically "violent death"; you could

use _firie_ or _effirie_ instead, which is more

general

- "I will give" would be _antuvanye_

- _tye_ is sc. direct object, i.e accusative, while

you need dative (an indirect object) here (in English

they look the same): so _tyen_

- genitival constructions in Q are rendered

differently from English, where it can be expressed

with the preposition "of"; Quenya uses the genitive

(or in some cases the possessive) case to express

this, which has the ending -o/-on; so "crown of life"

would be *cuileo ríe or *ríe cuileo



Hope this helps,



Thomas Ferencz



  -- love is the shadow that ripens the wine --



Let's discuss Eldarin languages - http://aglardh.middangeard.hu









__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

> be written differently.  The second point was at the

> preposition.  I believe that "ya" is the correct

> form to use but I am

> confused as to where this form would go.



not at all... you can find 'ya' to appear as different

words and devices but I don't rememebr finding it as

'of'



to express 'of', you just put the noun in the genitive

(usually) case, that means the word will be probably

'cuileo' in genitive



Other participants might argue you would prefer

possessive rather than genitive (perhaps 'cuileva')



for the rest, first of all faithful is voronda not

veronda. Secondly I can't tell much about grammar or

syntax since i don't claim to know Quenya, but I think

as a neo-Quenya sentence it would be ok, although we

have seen future like 'maruvan' instead of 'maruvinye'













___________________________________________________________

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ÂáñåèÞêáôå ôá åíï÷ëçôéêÜ ìçíýìáôá (spam); Ôï Yahoo! Mail

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ìçíõìÜôùí http://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=gr

I am very pleased to announce that thanks to Antonio Palomino the

following articles on Eldarin grammar from Parma Tyelpelassiva

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/

are now available in Spanish translation:



* The Quenya pronominal system: a summary

* A rogue's guide to Sindarin word reconstruction

* The verb "to be" in Tolkien's elvish languages

* Analogical leveling in Quenya compounds (and prefixed words)

* The Sindarin case system

* Intensifying prefixes in the Etymologies

* Impersonal constructions in Elvish



Please enjoy!



* Thorsten

I think I answered on this when you posted it the first time (not sure

though), check at elfling.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Daniel King" <placibonin@...>

To: "Elfling" <elfling@yahoogroups.com>; <elfscript@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 7:38 PM

Subject: [elfling] Translation





I've been trying to teach myself a little bit of Elvish to try to translate

something from English to Quenya.  The following is what I tried to

translate:



Be    faithful  unto death and (I will give you)

Na    veronda tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë)



the   crown of life.

i       ríë                 (-ya-) cuilë.





I was confused on two points (but probably wrong in more than one).  The

frist is where I had a simple future conjugated verb between two pronouns.

I believe I cojugated the verb correctly (antuva-will give you) but I wasn't

sure if I should add the "I" pronoun to the end of the verb and have the

"you" pronoun precede the full conjugation or if it should be written

differently.  The second point was at the preposition.  I believe that "ya"

is the correct form to use but I am

confused as to where this form would go.



Any input would be helpful.

I think I answered on this when you posted it the first time (not sure

though), check at elfling.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Daniel King" <placibonin@...>

To: "Elfling" <elfling@yahoogroups.com>; <elfscript@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 7:38 PM

Subject: [elfling] Translation





I've been trying to teach myself a little bit of Elvish to try to translate

something from English to Quenya.  The following is what I tried to

translate:



Be    faithful  unto death and (I will give you)

Na    veronda tenna qualmë ar (tye antuvinyë)



the   crown of life.

i       ríë                 (-ya-) cuilë.





I was confused on two points (but probably wrong in more than one).  The

frist is where I had a simple future conjugated verb between two pronouns.

I believe I cojugated the verb correctly (antuva-will give you) but I wasn't

sure if I should add the "I" pronoun to the end of the verb and have the

"you" pronoun precede the full conjugation or if it should be written

differently.  The second point was at the preposition.  I believe that "ya"

is the correct form to use but I am

confused as to where this form would go.



Any input would be helpful.

Hi I am interested in translating my name into elvish respectively Quenya.



My name is Rasmus which comes from Erasmus and means the beloved.



What i thought could be matching is



Mel = love + dir or dil



which would result into Meldur. Melur, Meldil or melil.



I am not sure if that approach is correct and any help would be nice



THanks in advance

--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "ras_home" <ras_home@...> wrote:

>

> Hi I am interested in translating my name into elvish respectively

Quenya.

>

> My name is Rasmus [...] and means the beloved.

>



In Quenya, the word 'beloved' is _melda_. As Rasmus is a male name,

you could make _melda_ into a male name by adding -o or -on to get

Meldo or Meldon. However, _meldo_ is a Quenya word for a (male) friend.



-M. Dinse

I am trying to translate a phrase from English into Quenya. Can anyone

help?



I think I have it fairly close, but would like other opinions.



The phrase I want translated is: Courage for Peace.



Translation: Verie (two dots over e) rainen (two dots over e).



This translated phrase is closer to boldness for peace than courage,

but I think still conveys the same meaning I was going for.



I appreciate any suggestions that you might offer.



Thank you,

ac

Hi,



I have been searching all over the internet for people that can help me

with a simple translation. Next year I am going to do the Ironman

triathlon and as a 'reward' I would like to get a tattoo with "Ironman"

on my arm. But I want it to be something special and since I am a

fantasy fan I would like to know what the translations in Elven or

Dwarven are.



I tried the translation to Elven once and came up with Angaina Veo. Is

this correct? And in Dwarven?



Any help would be highly appreciated!



Thanks

When you say "Ironman" it could mean (a) a person who is very strong, (b) a

person with a lot of endurance, or (c) a person made of metal.



Which one do you want to translate?



2008/5/31 ruudverpaalen <ruudverpaalen@...>:



>   Hi,

>

> I have been searching all over the internet for people that can help me

> with a simple translation. Next year I am going to do the Ironman

> triathlon and as a 'reward' I would like to get a tattoo with "Ironman"

> on my arm. But I want it to be something special and since I am a

> fantasy fan I would like to know what the translations in Elven or

> Dwarven are.

>

> I tried the translation to Elven once and came up with Angaina Veo. Is

> this correct? And in Dwarven?

>

> Any help would be highly appreciated!

>

> Thanks

>

>

>







--

Phil

------- Haiku ---



Horses hooves hammer

Pounding priests of drumskin ground

Bringing the thunder





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, (I'm not an expert so by all means PLEASE seek a second

opinion) but according to the Appendix of the Silmarillion, "Iron"

in Quenya is "anga" and in Sindarin is "ang," while man is "adan,"

so, in theory, "Ironman" would be Angadan, or perhaps Angadon(as

i've seen several names that change the "-an" to "-on" for name

endings.)



I'm afraid that's as far as i know, i have no knowledge of the Dwarf

languages, hope it can be some help. (and again, get a second

opinion-- especially for a tattoo.)







--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, "ruudverpaalen" <ruudverpaalen@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> I have been searching all over the internet for people that can

help me

> with a simple translation. Next year I am going to do the Ironman

> triathlon and as a 'reward' I would like to get a tattoo

with "Ironman"

> on my arm. But I want it to be something special and since I am a

> fantasy fan I would like to know what the translations in Elven or

> Dwarven are.

>

> I tried the translation to Elven once and came up with Angaina

Veo. Is

> this correct? And in Dwarven?

>

> Any help would be highly appreciated!

>

> Thanks

>

Well, once again I am no expert here, but I speak a bit of Sindarin.



A very strong man: benn ammalar.  (man very-strong)

A very persevering man: benn i udhaur  (man who no-stop)

A man made of metallic iron: ion ang (a son of iron)



Hope that helps.



2008/5/31 maho4451 <maho4451@...>:



>

> Well, (I'm not an expert so by all means PLEASE seek a second

> opinion) but according to the Appendix of the Silmarillion, "Iron"

> in Quenya is "anga" and in Sindarin is "ang," while man is "adan,"

> so, in theory, "Ironman" would be Angadan, or perhaps Angadon(as

> i've seen several names that change the "-an" to "-on" for name

> endings.)

>

> I'm afraid that's as far as i know, i have no knowledge of the Dwarf

> languages, hope it can be some help. (and again, get a second

> opinion-- especially for a tattoo.)

>

> --- In elfling@yahoogroups.com <elfling%40yahoogroups.com>,

> "ruudverpaalen" <ruudverpaalen@...>

> wrote:

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have been searching all over the internet for people that can

> help me

> > with a simple translation. Next year I am going to do the Ironman

> > triathlon and as a 'reward' I would like to get a tattoo

> with "Ironman"

> > on my arm. But I want it to be something special and since I am a

> > fantasy fan I would like to know what the translations in Elven or

> > Dwarven are.

> >

> > I tried the translation to Elven once and came up with Angaina

> Veo. Is

> > this correct? And in Dwarven?

> >

> > Any help would be highly appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks

> >

>

>

>







--

Phil

------- Haiku ---



Horses hooves hammer

Pounding priests of drumskin ground

Bringing the thunder





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ... I would like to get a tattoo with "Ironman" on my arm. But I want it to be

something special and since I am a fantasy fan I would like to know what the

translations in Elven or Dwarven are. I tried the translation to Elven once and

came up with Angaina Veo. Is this correct?



Yes, basically. _Angaina_ is the adjective "of iron" in Quenya, the

best-attested Tolkienian Elf-language. _Nér_ and _veo_ will both do for "man".

You could also add a masculine ending to the noun "iron" (anga) and come up with

something like Angamo.



In Sindarin, the other main Elf-language created by Tolkien, it would be

something like Benn Angren, Dîr Angren or (probably better) a compound like

Angdir.



> And in Dwarven?



The Dwarf-language (Khuzdul) is very fragmentary. We have no words for either

"iron" or "man", and while some of Tolkien's notes on this language are still

unpublished, he may never have created these vocabulary items.



- HKF



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]