I have a basic question regarding diachronic phonological and morpho-phonological changes in Elvish languages. (If this topic has been discussed previously, I...
2066
david kiltz
dkiltz@...
Jan 27, 2000 11:48 pm
... It would seem that _thraw_ or pp. _thrawn_ is a dialectal (chiefly Scottish) form of the verb _To throw_. Used in its more primitve sense "to turn, twist"....
2067
Didier Willis
didier.willis@...
Jan 27, 2000 11:48 pm
... becomes ... Should ... loch ... your ... My understanding of appendix E is that you should say /lahirne/, if you intend to have a third age pronunciation. ...
2068
David Salo
dsalo@...
Jan 27, 2000 11:48 pm
Everybody knows that the OE which derives from older *ai in the Noldorin of The Etymologies appears as AE in later versions of Sindarin. However, Etymologies...
2069
Rich Alderson
ALDERSON@...
Jan 28, 2000 10:59 pm
... Prior to William Labov's work on social dialects on Martha's Vineyard and in New York City, that was the general notion of how languages changed; we know ...
2070
Candon Clannach
lethglas@...
Jan 28, 2000 10:59 pm
... Well, I'm not sure what you're asking, but the way phonemes (sounds) are described is by: Voicedness--do the vocal cords moved when this sound is made. ...
2071
Candon Clannach
lethglas@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
... That's the problem with trying to describe one language's sounds by using another language's words. The IPA is much better! You are right the sound in...
2072
Hugh Toner
hugh_toner@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
There has been some debate over the translation of Tyrn Gorthad at a discussion forum that I occasionally visit. Essentially, somebody is hoping that a...
2073
Hugh Toner
hugh_toner@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
We have been having a discussion at a message board I occasionaly frequent concerning the meaning of "Tyrn Gorthad". For my part, I believe Tyrn to come...
2074
BP Jonsson
bpj@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
... I've heard recordings of Tolkien reciting his own English-language poens, and it seems that "very old-style rhotic English" was his ideal for formal ...
2075
BP Jonsson
bpj@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
... JRRT most certainly imagined dialectal variations in Sindarin; thus we have e.g. late Third Age Mirkwood Sindarin _Legolas_ rather than Classical Sindarin...
2076
BP Jonsson
bpj@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
... Also, I think, one is very much at the crossroads of phonetics and phonemics here. Even though it is *phonetically* [aI] it seems reasonable to interpret...
2077
estgaido@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:00 pm
I was reading The Complete Guide to Middle Earth by Robert Foster (I'm making a Middle Earth wargame :) ) and the word kelvar is translated 'quick ones', only...
2078
Andreas Johansson
and_yo@...
Jan 28, 2000 11:01 pm
... That's exactly what I meant: I believed it should be [O_e] while you thought it should be [O_E], with a more open pronunciation of the second element. ... ...
2079
Cirk Bejnar
Eluchil@...
Jan 29, 2000 4:58 pm
... Jugding just from kelvar I would use kelva as the adjective. Sinda, "grey", and Sindar, "Grey Elves" would be parallel forms. The Silmarillion appendix...
2080
david kiltz
dkiltz@...
Jan 29, 2000 4:59 pm
... _Kelvar_ is glossed in the Silmarillion as: An Elvish word retained in the speeches of Yavanna and Manwe ... : "animals, living things that move". Probably...
2081
Raymond Brown
ray.brown@...
Jan 29, 2000 5:24 pm
At 6:55 pm -0800 27/1/00, Candon Clannach wrote: [....] ... I lived in Wales for 22 years and always heard [x]. It may be that [X] is used in the North -...
2082
Raymond Brown
ray.brown@...
Jan 29, 2000 5:25 pm
... [....] ... [a_"i] or SAMPA [a1] ... No - but sounds which occur in diphthongs do not have to exist as separate phonemes in a languages; they may be...
2083
Jerome S. Colburn
jscolbur@...
Jan 29, 2000 5:26 pm
... Many of us in the States say [w]. One of Isaac Asimov's Black Widowers stories turns on a pun between Wales and whales. I'm told that the name for the...
2084
Jerome S. Colburn
jscolbur@...
Jan 29, 2000 6:08 pm
... KEL- is seen also in Celduin, translated as "the River Running." ... Where is NOR- in Q.? S. _lim_ I interpret as _l-_ the same element as in the Q....
2085
Candon Clannach
lethglas@...
Jan 29, 2000 10:36 pm
... I agree about Tolkien's reference (and I never said _loch_ was Welsh; that was Didier ;-) I find it interesting that there could be a variation between [x]...
2086
Ales Bican
bican@...
Jan 29, 2000 10:36 pm
... **O! ... **SA gives: "animals, living things that move". ... **Try Tolkien's favorite word _linta_ "swift". ... **Ah, _lenca_, Quenya is very friendly to...
2087
Ales Bican
bican@...
Jan 29, 2000 10:36 pm
... **"Singing a song long had travelled" - I'd say that part. "singing" would be _liirala_. You mean _elende_ as "had traveled" as pluperfect? This is a pure ...
2088
David Salo
dsalo@...
Jan 29, 2000 10:36 pm
... There's no known way to get from the Eldarin root TUN to Tyrn; there are too many problems with the insertion of an "r"; I cannot think of any other word...
2089
David Salo
dsalo@...
Jan 29, 2000 10:36 pm
... I think there's no justification for Foster's translation; the only translation in the Silmarillion is "living things that move", and nothing is added to...
2090
Andreas Johansson
and_yo@...
Jan 30, 2000 3:09 pm
... Possibly because "kill" is both a verb and a noun, and because it connects to "killer" which in some peoples use can mean "victor"? Andreas ...
2091
Raymond Brown
ray.brown@...
Jan 31, 2000 1:56 am
... [....] ... Sorry - I know it was not you. I'm sorry if I implied it was. ... Next time I'm back I'm back in Wales, I'll listen carefully. But the south ...
2092
Candon Clannach
lethglas@...
Jan 31, 2000 3:05 am
... OK. How about this for some fun aliteration: Lindala lír' andave lende 'singing a song, long (he) traveled' ... Yes, it seems throughout the poem I had...
2093
Edward Kloczko
106065.2071@...
Jan 31, 2000 11:52 pm
A new on Tolkien has been published. I have not (yet) seen it. A link to it : http://info.greenwood.com/books/0313305/0313305307.html Edouard Kloczko...
2094
Didier Willis
didier.willis@...
Jan 31, 2000 11:57 pm
... Oups. I am the culprit... and I had CJRT's note before me, "CH always has the value of ch in *Scotch* loch or German buch" [my emphasis] =:*) The Harrap's...
