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#128 From: "Thaddaeus A. Vick" <thaddaeusv@...>
Date: Wed Dec 2, 1998 5:23 am
Subject: Greetings
thaddaeusv@...
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Dear friends,
I am Thaddaeus A. Vick, and I have just joined this list, so here
is
my introduction. I am 23 years old, and a freshman at Berry College in
Rome, Georgia, USA, majoring in computer science. I've been interested
in both linguistics and Tolkien for years, although I haven't been able
to find much information on his languages before discovering the
Ardalambion web site. (Basically all I had was the appendices to RotK
and the Silmarillion.) I once devised a tengwar mode that was capable
of representing English, Greek, Hebrew, and Gaelic, as far as I
understood
any of those languages. I took two years of koine' Greek at a previous
college, of which I remember almost nothing, but I still have all the
books. I was active in the Klingon language community for a couple of
years, and still can speak it a bit. I've also dabbled in Esperanto.
I've been a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism for two
years. I would like to learn as much Elvish as it is possible to learn
with the references available.
And here's something interesting I ran across just tonight,
although
it may have been mentioned before, it's new to me: in Spanish, the name
"Adam" - the first man - is pronounced "Adan". I wonder if this could
be related to the Quenya "Atan", and the Sindarin "Adan".

==
Thaddaeus A. Vick, Linguist to the Masses
Email: ThaddaeusV@...
URL: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/2605
"Give me the songs of a nation, and it matters
not who writes their laws." -- Plato
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#130 From: Dorothea Salo <dmrovner@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 1998 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
dmrovner@...
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Thaddeus A. Vick wrote:

> And here's something interesting I ran across just tonight,
>although
>it may have been mentioned before, it's new to me: in Spanish, the name
>"Adam" - the first man - is pronounced "Adan". I wonder if this could
>be related to the Quenya "Atan", and the Sindarin "Adan".

Possibly, although I think there may be a little more to it than
just this one word.

It so happens that Spanish permits only dental/alveolar consonants
in word-final position. It so happens, I believe, that Quenya has a very
similar rule...

The results aren't quite identical; Spanish likes to end words with
"d" (pronounced in most dialects as a voiced dental or interdental
fricative, although some folks do devoice it), while Quenya favors "t".
Still, it's a convenient sample rule in a living language with which we
know Tolkien was somewhat familiar.

Someone else will have to speculate on the Proto-Eldarin; I'm not
qualified.

Dorothea

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorothea Salo <*> |"He querido mas vivir en mi peque~a casa,
dmrovner@... |exenta, y se~ora, que no en sus ricos
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~dmrovner |palacios, sojuzgada y cativa."_Celestina_


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#2764 From: "Allison ..." <Blackrose339@...>
Date: Sun Jun 11, 2000 8:54 pm
Subject: Greetings
Blackrose339@...
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hello to all!

My name is Allison; i'm a high school student in Texas, and I've recently
become very interested in Tolkien's invented languages, especially Sindarin
and the other elven languages. I thought I might just write in to say hello
to everyone out there.

I recently finished reading and taking notes on the Sindarin analyzation at
the Ardalambion (thank you so much for all your work, Helge!), and there
found a link to this mailing list (and to TolkLang). I know I will enjoy
all the discussion posted here, and hope to learn and help others to learn
of the intricacies of Tolkien's languages. I have many questions; and I'm
certain will only have more as time progresses.

I will start with two questions that I am certain you have heard many times,
but I would appreciate some response regarding them.


I have searched about a little (through the Ardalambion, Etymologies, and
mailing list archives) and have found that there is no certain Sindarin verb
for "to be". My question is this: Are there any ideas for or hypothetical
words being widely used as of now? I read of _na-_ being questioned as
such, and of a word _aen-_ (which meant 'may it be'(?)). Is there any
standard being used?

Another question I have regards the formation of past-tense verbs in
Sindarin. In the Ardalambion, a method is mentioned that Tolkien began to
develop (as is my understanding) in which primary verbs undergo several
changes (i.e. _ped-_ becomes _ebid_) to form their third person past-tense.
Has it been determined whether this is to be widely used, or should one
continue to use the 'normal' method?


Please bear with me if my questions are not extremely thought-provoking, but
I am very new to the realm of languages and their construction (currently I
only speak English and -very- limited Spanish). This interests me greatly,
and I hope that many of you will assist me in my search for knowledge in
these matters. Thank you very much for your time and help!

-Allison, the hopeful linguist
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#5894 From: mettare@...
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2001 4:27 am
Subject: Greetings
mettare@...
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Allo fellow linguists and Tolkien lovers.  I'm afraid to say I
haven't picked up much of any of his languages, despite my many
efforts to do so. So, perhaps you folk can help me get started. To
think! I don't even know greetings, and pronounciations are rough in
coming!

But, just for greeting and introduction purposes, I'm a linguistics
and computer science major at the University of Pittsburgh, and a
proud brother of the honorary band service fraternity Kappa Kappa
Psi. Hee. Other'n that, I can be reached here, under Mettare (which
I've seen translated as either last light or day's end, but I like
it, though it hardly suits as a true elvish name, if any of you would
be so kind as to aid me in that area) or Bubble_Dragon@...
I'm afraid of fire, you see.

In any case, I'm glad to have found you.

~Bubbles




#5895 From: Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...>
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:00 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
elfiness@...
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> Allo fellow linguists and Tolkien lovers.  I'm
> afraid to say I
> haven't picked up much of any of his languages,
> despite my many
> efforts to do so. So, perhaps you folk can help me
> get started. To
> think! I don't even know greetings, and
> pronounciations are rough in
> coming!

Aiya Mettare!
What kind of efforts have you made so far? its strange
that you don't know at least the greeting Elen sila
lumenn' omentielvo, aiya or mae govannen :)

for greetings and other useful stuff you can visit

http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_parl.html

concerning pronounciation, there are some ways you can
learn. First of all study the LOTR Appendix E which
deals with pronoucniation. There are various sites
that can help you though. Helge Fauskanger is
composing a Quenya course and the first lesson
contains pronounciation rules. You can find it in

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/qcourse.htm

And i am aware of one only site devoted to Quenya
pronoucniation:
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/pronguide.html

For a samples of sindarin, Ryszard Derdzinsky has
translated the Lord's Prayer into Sindarin and
recorded his voice reading it in his Gwaith i
Phethdain page

www.elvish.org/gwaith

in that site also you can download samples of some
Sindarin phrases that are going to be heard in the
movie!!! good luck and dont hesitate to ask about
anything you need help...

Namarie, tenn' enomentielma

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#5896 From: "Scott" <samourai95@...>
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:14 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
samourai95@...
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Aiya there :)

I'm a french guy,and I'd like a lot to learn elvish's language.
As Bulbbes,if somebody can help me to get started,I will be happy :)
I think You will say that I need to learn t speak english well before lol.

Nai elenon aurë sìla menessë
----- Original Message -----
From: <mettare@...>
To: <elfling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:27 AM
Subject: [elfling] Greetings


> Allo fellow linguists and Tolkien lovers. I'm afraid to say I
> haven't picked up much of any of his languages, despite my many
> efforts to do so. So, perhaps you folk can help me get started. To
> think! I don't even know greetings, and pronounciations are rough in
> coming!
>
> But, just for greeting and introduction purposes, I'm a linguistics
> and computer science major at the University of Pittsburgh, and a
> proud brother of the honorary band service fraternity Kappa Kappa
> Psi. Hee. Other'n that, I can be reached here, under Mettare (which
> I've seen translated as either last light or day's end, but I like
> it, though it hardly suits as a true elvish name, if any of you would
> be so kind as to aid me in that area) or Bubble_Dragon@...
> I'm afraid of fire, you see.
>
> In any case, I'm glad to have found you.
>
> ~Bubbles
>
>
> --
> Manager address: elfling-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Unsub address: elfling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Elfling welcome: http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfling.html
> Elfling FAQ: http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea/elfaq.html
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>




#5901 From: "Sara Hillis" <sarahillis@...>
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:51 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
sarahillis@...
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Aiya, Mellon! (Hail, friend.) The "aiya" is Quenya and the "mellon" is
Sindarin. What's the quinya form of that, please?)

Good to have you here! Hantale ("thank you" in Quenya) for introducing
yourself. I hope you learn a lot here!

Namaarie! Farewell!

Sara (or Aranel in quenya)



#5902 From: "D. Daniel Andriës" <uialdil@...>
Date: Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
uialdil@...
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Sara Hillis deithant:
> Aiya, Mellon! (Hail, friend.) The "aiya" is Quenya and the "mellon"
>is
>Sindarin. What's the quinya form of that, please?)

From The Etymologies: maalo, sermo or nildo.

Cuio mae, Danny.

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#6075 From: David Kiltz <kiltzd@...>
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2001 7:09 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
kiltzd@...
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On Freitag, August 24, 2001, at 07:26 Uhr, D. Daniel Andriës wrote:

>
>
>
> Sara Hillis deithant:
>> Aiya, Mellon! (Hail, friend.) The "aiya" is Quenya and the
>> "mellon"
>> is
>> Sindarin. What's the quinya form of that, please?)
>
> From The Etymologies: maalo, sermo or nildo.
>
Or indeed _meldo_

-David



#6406 From: tinkyundrground@...
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 4:54 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
tinkyundergr...
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Gratzi, thats was really helpful....excuse the one liner



#6426 From: "Vicente S Velasco" <rashbold@...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:50 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
rashbold@...
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>There are some common greatings on this list.
>I have seen:
>
>Namaarie
> Quenya. "Farewell"
>Cuio mae
> Sindarin. "Live well"
>Hantale
> Quenya. "Thanksgiving"
>Suilad
> Sindarin. "Greeting"
>Meneg Suilaid
> Sindarin. "Thousand Greetings"
>
>Perhaps there are more things I am not aware of.
>

I wonder why some would use hantale as a greeting, when it should be classified
as an abstract noun: "thanksgiving". If you want to say "thank you" perhaps one
should use the vinyakarme hantanyel "(I) thank you". In addition, I used the
greeting "mai omentaina" or "mai yomentaina" (well met) and "manen
lelyat/lelyal" (how goes it, how are you?) I don't know if I was the first to
use the latter phrase, but I made it up myself, at least independently of
someone else who may have used it besides me.

__________________________________
www.edsamail.com



#6440 From: David Kiltz <kiltzd@...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 7:28 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
palannir
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On Donnerstag, Oktober 18, 2001, at 07:50 Uhr, Vicente S Velasco wrote:
>>
>> <snipp>
>>
>> Hantale
>> Quenya. "Thanksgiving"
>>
>
> I wonder why some would use hantale as a greeting, when it should be
> classified as an abstract noun: "thanksgiving". If you want to say
> "thank you" perhaps one should use the vinyakarme hantanyel "(I) thank
> you". In addition, I used the greeting "mai omentaina" or "mai
> yomentaina" (well met) and "manen lelyat/lelyal" (how goes it, how are
> you?) I don't know if I was the first to use the latter phrase, but I
> made it up myself, at least independently of someone else who may have
> used it besides me.
_hantale_ does not, as far as I know, mean "Thanksgiving" but just
"thanking". _Eru hantale_ means "thanking God". The time and motivation
of this Numenorian festival corresponds to modern day Christian
"Thanksgiving". This is, however, not its literal translation. Thte
underlying verb surely is _hanta_. As for _hantanyel_, I don't know.
"You" shd be dative here, I guess, so _elyen_ ? Also, _lelyat_ is very
idiomatic. Many languages don't use "to go" in that fashion, so I'd be
very cautious there. Just _hantale_ or perhaps even the plural _hantali_
seems okay. Or maybe simply _hantan_ "I thank".
-David




#6588 From: "Elfin Love" <lielkiel@...>
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2001 1:59 pm
Subject: Greetings
the_elf_girl
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Im new in your list. My name is Elfin (real name)

Im thankful, to be in this list. Im a pasionated fan of all Tolkiens work.
And Im quite interested in studing Q and S. But I just started to dedicate
my time to it. Im not an expert in lenguajes (but I hope my knowledge on
Spanish, inglish and german, helps me a bit ;9 ). So Im greatly interested
to read of your opinions, so I problably keep silence and read all that
comes from this list. And hope Im not disturbing you.

seeing you later

Elfie

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#10463 From: Alex Grigny de Castro <a.grigny@...>
Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:26 pm
Subject: Greetings
a.grigny@...
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Hi,

I just joined the elfling list. I'm 53 y.o., male, and live in Amsterdam,
the Netherlands. I studied 3 years semitic linguistics (hebrew and aramaic)
at the University of Amsterdam, but never graduated. My interest here is
mainly Quenya and Sindarin, and I'm a newbie in both :) I'm presently
following Helge Fauskanger's Quenya course.

Cheers,
Alex

===
Alex Grigny de Castro
mailto:a.grigny@...
http://members.ams.chello.nl/a.grigny
XelaG
mailto:xelag@...
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





#11709 From: Narmakil@...
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 11:23 am
Subject: Greetings
Narmakil@...
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As a new member of the Elfling list, I would like to greet you all...
Allow me to introduce myself : I am 19, I live in France, and (of course), I
love JRRT and his languages, especially Quenya and Adûnaic. I look forward to
learning some of your vast knowledge of those tongues (and many others...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#11744 From: "bbritishdude" <bbritishdude@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 5:04 am
Subject: Greetings
bbritishdude
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Hello!  Could someone kindly list some basic Elvish greetings along
with pronounciation help? I believe that "elen síla lúmenn'
omentielvo" is one, but I have NO idea how to pronounce it.

Doug




#11748 From: Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:40 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
elfiness
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teithant bbritishdude

> Hello! Could someone kindly list some basic Elvish greetings along
with pronounciation help? I believe that "elen síla lúmenn'
omentielvo" is one, but I have NO idea how to pronounce it.

* http://gildor.freepage.gr/faq.html :DDD



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#11764 From: Kai MacTane <kmactane@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:38 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
kmactane
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At 3/9/02 09:04 PM , bbritishdude wrote:
>Hello! Could someone kindly list some basic Elvish greetings along
>with pronounciation help? I believe that "elen síla lúmenn'
>omentielvo" is one, but I have NO idea how to pronounce it.

"ELL-en SEE-la LOO-men oh-men-tee-EL-vo".

Another common phrase that may be either a greeting or a farewell (I'm not
sure which, or maybe it can be both) is "Anar caluva tielyanna", meaning
"The Sun shines on your path." It's pronounced "AN-ar KAL-oo-va
tee-ell-YAN-na."

But the simplest Quenya greeting is just "Aiya", pronounced "EYE-ah".

Note that these are all Quenya; the only Sindarin greeting I can quickly
think of is "Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
to pronounce it.

--Kai MacTane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Doom. Gloom. Angst. Despair. Tragedy."
--A. Random Goth




#11766 From: Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:45 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
elfiness
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teithant Kai MacTane

> "ELL-en SEE-la LOO-men oh-men-tee-EL-vo".

no, its luumEnna

> But the simplest Quenya greeting is just "Aiya", pronounced "EYE-ah".

* EYE-yah

> Note that these are all Quenya; the only Sindarin greeting I can quickly
think of is "Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
to pronounce it.

* kai?? come on now!! i dont believe you!

MAH-eh goh-VAH-nen



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#11779 From: Kai MacTane <kmactane@...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:00 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
kmactane
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At 3/10/02 01:45 PM , =?iso-8859-7?q?Gildor=20Inglorion?= wrote:

> teithant Kai MacTane
> > "ELL-en SEE-la LOO-men oh-men-tee-EL-vo".
>
>no, its luumEnna

Whoops, right; I wasn't really thinking about the elided last syllable.

> > But the simplest Quenya greeting is just "Aiya", pronounced "EYE-ah".
>
>* EYE-yah

I think that's more of an orthographical preference thing. Honestly, I
can't think of how I'd pronounce "EYE-ah" any differently from "EYE-yah",
except maybe a teeny bit more Y.

> > Note that these are all Quenya; the only Sindarin greeting I can quickly
>think of is "Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
>to pronounce it.
>
>* kai?? come on now!! i dont believe you!
>
>MAH-eh goh-VAH-nen

Okay, I had a general "idea", but I wasn't sure if my idea matched
Tolkien's idea. Does that make more sense?

I honestly haven't studied Sindarin yet at all. (Well, I hadn't when I
wrote that earlier post. In order to make the sound files I just posted a
message about, I quickly skimmed through the "Phonology" section of the
Sindarin page on Ardalambion.) But before this, I would have thought _Mae_
was "MAY", or maybe "MY".

Thanks for filling me in, though.

--Kai MacTane
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wind in wings,/Two angels falling
To die like this/With a last kiss..."
--Siouxsie and the
Banshees,
"Face to Face"




#11769 From: Beregond. Anders Stenström <beregond@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
j_beregond
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Gildor Inglorion wrote:

> > "ELL-en SEE-la LOO-men oh-men-tee-EL-vo".
>
> no, its luumEnna

Yes, and the elided form is _luumEnn'_.

> > But the simplest Quenya greeting is just "Aiya", pronounced "EYE-ah".
>
> * EYE-yah

I doubt there is any phonological contrast between _aia_ and
_aiya_. If my doubt is correct, "EYE-ah" and "EYE-yah" would
both be possible free variants.

> > Note that these are all Quenya; the only Sindarin greeting I can quickly
> think of is "Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
> to pronounce it.
>
> * kai?? come on now!! i dont believe you!
>
> MAH-eh goh-VAH-nen

No, _mae_ is a monosyllable, AE being a diphthong in Sindarin.

Meneg suilaid,

Beregond




#11770 From: Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:10 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
elfiness
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teithant "Beregond. Anders Stenström"

> No, _mae_ is a monosyllable, AE being a diphthong in Sindarin.

* and how could i render it?:)



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#11773 From: "D. Daniel Andriës" <uialdil@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:19 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
uialdil@...
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Teithant Beregond. Anders Stenström:
>Gildor Inglorion wrote:
> >teithant kai mctane:
> >"Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
> > to pronounce it.
> >
> > * kai?? come on now!! i dont believe you!
> >
> > MAH-eh goh-VAH-nen
>
> No, _mae_ is a monosyllable, AE being a diphthong in Sindarin.

Also, double consonants are pronounced double in Sindarin, so rather "mae
goh-VAHN-nen."

Cuio mae,Danny.

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#11774 From: Beregond. Anders Stenström <beregond@...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:27 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
j_beregond
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Dangweth anim o Gildor Inglorion:

> teithant "Beregond. Anders Stenström"
>
> > No, _mae_ is a monosyllable, AE being a diphthong in Sindarin.
>
> * and how could i render it?:)

Well, I find 'English sounds-like spelling' difficult to fathom, so
I am afraid I don't know.

Suilaid,

Beregond




#11790 From: "Andreas Johansson" <and_yo@...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:42 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
and_yo
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Gildor Inglorion wrote:
>
> teithant Kai MacTane

> > Note that these are all Quenya; the only Sindarin greeting I can quickly
>think of is "Mae govannen," which means "Well met." But I have no idea how
>to pronounce it.
>
>* kai?? come on now!! i dont believe you!
>
>MAH-eh goh-VAH-nen
>
I'm fairly certain that _mae_ is monosyllabic. Now, English doesn't have a
/ae/ diphthong, but the closest rendering probably is:

MY goh-VAN-nen (note double nn like in "penknife")

But the serious student will of course want to learn to produce a correct
Sindarin "ae". If you know SAMPA, it's probably [AE], otherwise, well, it's
a diphthong beginning as "a" in "father" and ending (probably) as "e" in
"bed".

Andreas

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#11791 From: "Andreas Johansson" <and_yo@...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:45 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
and_yo
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Beregond wrote:
>
>Dangweth anim o Gildor Inglorion:
>
> > teithant "Beregond. Anders Stenström"
> >
> > > No, _mae_ is a monosyllable, AE being a diphthong in Sindarin.
> >
> > * and how could i render it?:)
>
> Well, I find 'English sounds-like spelling' difficult to fathom, so
>I am afraid I don't know.

Me too, but rendering "ae" is quite hopeless in any case. See my other mail
for a less-than-ideal solution and some discussion.

Andreas

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#20481 From: Thomas Ferencz <percival64@...>
Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:27 pm
Subject: Greetings
percival64
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Aiya!

Merin alassea, senda Hrístonostare ilquenen, i cenda
mentatéma sina! Limbe annar, tyávima apsa, sére
órelyasse!

Namárie,

Thomas Ferencz

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#20495 From: "Petri Tikka <kari.j.tikka@...>" <kari.j.tikka@...>
Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 11:00 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
petristikka
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--- In elfling@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Ferencz <percival64@y...>
wrote:
> Aiya!
>
> Merin alassea, senda Hrístonostare ilquenen, i cenda
> mentatéma sina! Limbe annar, tyávima apsa, sére
> órelyasse!
>
> Namárie,
>
> Thomas Ferencz

Translation:

"Hail!

I wish a happy, peaceful Christmas to all who read
this mailing list! Many gifts, tasty food, peace
inside your heart!

Farewell,

Thomas Ferencz"

Same from me! A! manen melin lúme sina...

- Petri Tikka





#30059 From: "kiyoto_ak" <kiyoto_ak@...>
Date: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:45 pm
Subject: Greetings
kiyoto_ak
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Greetings,
I'm new on this group and I wanted to introduce myself.
I live in Brazil, 15 yrs old. I have been studying elvish languages
for some time, and thought I might get some help about this or that
problem may I find.
Also, I hope to find many new friends, and fans of the LotR world =]]]

Thanks







#30077 From: Nikke De Young <nikki_deyoung@...>
Date: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:32 am
Subject: Re: Greetings
nikki_deyoung
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kiyoto_ak <kiyoto_ak@...> wrote:
"Greetings,
I'm new on this group and I wanted to introduce myself."

Hi...and welcome. My name is Nikki. I'm sure you will get all the help you
need! These people are great and they are friendly as well. Anything you need
don't be afraid to ask. Many people will answer with their knowledge and
opinions...the discusion can go on for some time but it will be worth the time.
You will learn many new things. I hope you have fun!


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