(This message was approved, but got lost in the shuffle somehow. I
can't get eGroups to admit it exists or existed, so I'm reposting it in its
entirety. Apologies to John Osborne and the list for the delay. --Dorothea)

To: elfling@egroups.com
From: "John Osborne" <johno@...>
Subject: Re: [elfling] Hobbitish Place-names
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:14:58 -0000

<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>On 22 Nov 98, at 18:57, David Salo wrote:


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Tolkien's nomenclature for the
Shire and for Bree is based, as he

> admitted, on the ancient nomenclature of England: mostly of Anglo-Saxon

> origin, with a little bit of Norse and British Celtic mixed in. In the

> context of the Shire they are of "Hobbitish" origin -- using elements of

> the language the Hobbits brought with them from the upper Vales of Anduin

> -- with a little bit of primitive "Dunlending" (as used by the Stoors),

> represented by Celtic mixed in.

> I thought it would be interesting to examine these names and

> ascertain, as far as possible, their meanings; and, also where possible,

> reconstruct an "original" Old English form for the names, which could be

> taken to be the form the names had when the Shire was first settled by

> Marcho (*Mearha) and Blanco (*Blanca) in TA 1601. The following list

> contains all of the Shire-Bree names I could find, followed by an "Old

> Hobbitish" form, and lastly the meaning where the meaning is not perfectly

> transparent. The "Old Hobbitish" names might be found useful by anyone

> who wants to imagine the situation in the earliest days of the Shire. I

> found Tolkien's own "Guide to the Names in the Lord of the Rings" (printed

> in Lobdell's _A Tolkien Compass_ very helpful in this exercise, as well as

> Ekwall's guide to English place-names, among other Old English resources.

> I'd appreciate any help anyone can give with some of the knottier

> problem-names, especially Bindbole Wood, Dwaling, Girdley Island, Pincup,

> and The Yale.


</color>A splendid game! Let's see...


> Bindbole Wood,

> Presumably contains bole << Norse bolr "trunk of a tree".


Looking at the lettering on the map I'm unsure whether this is
'Bindbole' or 'Bindbale'. The latter, "bound-fire" does not seem to
make sense. Interestingly, K Wynn Fonstad (_An Atlas of Middle-
earth_), B Strachey (_Journeys of Frodo_) and JEA Tyler (_The
New Tolkien Companion_) give this as 'Bindb*a*le' Wood.

Incidentally, what's wrong with OE 'bol', "tree-trunk, bole"?


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Dwaling, Uncertain. Maybe a form of
"dwelling", from OE dwellan

> 'stop, stay, tarry'.


</color>Perhaps, except that the more normal sense would be "mislead,
delude, stupefy". Is Dwaling "the place of the stupid"?


> Girdley Island,

> Uncertain. Possibly Gyrdlieg "girdle-island"?


How about 'Geard leah' "enclosed meadow", "meadow of one-
quarter of a hide in size" or 'gierd leah' "meadow [where] yards
(poles) [are obtained]".

I favour the second of these as it closely corresponds to Yardley
in Birmingham; not far from JRRT's early home (and incidentally
where I was born).


> Pincup,


"hill of pines" seems most sensible; other interpretations (one
does not coppice pines, and 'pain hill' doesn't bear thinking
about) seem nonsensical.


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> The Yale. Probably a Celticism,
derived from Welsh ia^l

> "cultivated upland."


</color>Hmm.. As the road "... bent left and went down into the
*lowlands* of the Yale making for Stock;..." (_TFOTR_, p86) I
don't really like this interpretation.

I'd guess at 'Gealla', not in the more common sense of "a sore
(on a horse)" but as in "a barren patch of land".


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Bamfurlong Beanfurlang
"a furrow-length of beans," bean-field


</color>I'd guess that this was 'Beam furhlang' or even 'Beam furhland' -
"furrowed (cultivated) land [by the] trees".

"Pippin stopped. 'I know these fields and this gate!' he said. 'This
is Bamfurlong; old Farmer Maggot's land. That's his farm away
there in the trees." (_TFOTR_ p100.)


Some thoughts on other place-names...


> Budgeford Bolgraford "ford of the Bolgers"


How about 'bycga ford', "pay-ford"? Was there a toll-booth
perhaps?


> Gamwich Gamenwic "game-village"


I think that this is a real problem placename as (iirc) JRRT
started out with the personal name 'Gamgee' which was
rationalised as 'Gammidgee' (sp?) or 'man from Gammidge
(Gamwich)'.

So far as I can find, all English placenames starting 'gam-' are
based on a personal name - 'Gamall', 'Gamela' &c.


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Grindwall Grindweall
"fence-wall"

> Grind is a word of Norse origin meaning a barrier composed of

> several horizontals slotted into two uprights.


</color>How about 'Grundweall', which may be taken as either "ground-
(or earthen-) wall" or "foundation".


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Needlehole Naedlhol

> Possibly there is some other pun or meaning intended than the

> obvious one, but I cannot find it.


</color>I have one or two ideas on this, but need to follow them up fully.


> Staddle Stathol "foundation"


As Needlehole above.


> Tighfield Teahfeld "rope field"


Going out on a limb here, as it requires an OE asterisk word.
'*Tig feld', "meeting field".

I tentatively suggest this for two reasons:

1. Modern-day Tiffield in Northamptonshire is recorded in DB as
'Tifelde' and seems to have had this meaning.

2. Sam's comment that ".. my grand-dad, and my uncle Andy
after him, him that was the Gaffer's eldest brother, he had a rope-
walk over by Tighfield many a year." is suggestive (to me) of a
diversion or entertainment commonly seen at annual gatherings
such as moots or markets.

Perhaps Tighfield was the site of a yearly market and JRRT
perpetrated another double-pun?


> Whitwell Hwitwielle "white spring"


I'd be more inclined to translate 'hwit' as "clear" or "bright" in this
case.


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Withywindle
Withigwindel "winding (river) under willows"

> A guess; Withigwindel would most naturally be interpreted as "a

> basket made of willow-branches"! But the root-word wind-

> continues to imply "winding, twisting" in either sense.


</color>I think that your first translation is actually the more natural, cf
'windelstan' "(tower with) a winding stair".


Beo gesund


John O


<nofill>
--
John Osborne johno@...
hafoc@... / 101337.2601@...
http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/

Eall craeft bith unnytt
thonne Engel on thinum flintloce micgeth

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorothea Salo <*> |"He querido mas vivir en mi peque~a casa,
dmrovner@... |exenta, y se~ora, que no en sus ricos
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~dmrovner |palacios, sojuzgada y cativa."_Celestina_



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