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Re: first elvish post

--- In elfling@y..., Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
> * i need: boe anim
>
> i dont know how much "Tolkienian" it is, but it's used
> in FOTR and after all it sounds right:)

_boe_ is a modification of a word in Etymologies, _bui_. Both the form and
the meaning are based on a concatenation of guesses. The words in
Etymologies have a number of mostly regular phonological divergences from
later specimens of Sindarin; -ui is one of them. In other Sindarin examples,
the Common Eldarin vowels *au and *aa, when followed by -y- or subject to
i-affection (umlaut) become -oe-. For instance Nibin-noeg "Petty Dwarves"
where noeg is from *nauki (Unfinished Tales p. 100); and goe 'terror, great
fear' from gaayaa (The Peoples of Middle-earth p. 363). CE *au and *aa
when *not* umlauted also merge as au, or when shortened o. In the
Etymologies, however, i-affected *au and *aa become ui, e.g. gwaun, pl. guin
"geese" from *waani (root WA-N; the WA is probably onomatopoeic,
representing the honking noise of the goose, the -N is probably from a suffix
indicating an animal making a certain noise, like *khug-an- > huan 'animal
that barks'), and perhaps *karakw-an- > craban 'animal that caws or croaks').
_bui_ is said to come from *mauy- in The Etymologies. Since the root given
is MBAW, and since otherwise *m- always gives Sindarin *m-, we can
conclude that *mauy- is a mistake for *mbauy- (one of not a few mistakes in
The Etymologies). Treating -auy- like -aay- above, I conclude that the
Sindarin cognate should be _boe_.
As for what it means, this is not explicitly stated. MBAW is given the
meanings 'compel, force, subject, oppress'; among its derivatives are Qu.
maure, S. baur 'need'. _bui_ is said to be 'impersonal' (i.e. not having an
agent as its subject). What kind of impersonal verb could be related to this
root, and be sufficiently common to have its own entry? One that means 'it is
necessary (to)', 'one is compelled (to)', 'one needs (to)', 'one must'.
Morphologically, it is 'impersonal' in the sense of not having a personal
ending, and this seems to go back to Old Sindarin, since the form quoted
*m[b]auy- is just the root + a derivational suffix -y-. There's no indication
that in Sindarin there was a regular finite verb **boea- or anything like it.


David Salo





Thu Jun 6, 2002 8:44 pm

iiipitaka
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teithant Donna Mair ... * i need: boe anim i dont know how much "Tolkienian" it is, but it's used in FOTR and after all it sounds right:) ...
Gildor Inglorion
elfiness
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Jun 6, 2002
5:31 pm

... _boe_ is a modification of a word in Etymologies, _bui_. Both the form and the meaning are based on a concatenation of guesses. The words in Etymologies...
iiipitaka
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Jun 6, 2002
8:44 pm

greetings, i have many times seen various people refer back to similarion (spelling ok?) and etymologies. I have don't know what that refers to. Is it a book? ...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 7, 2002
3:03 am

supplemental to my first message, lets be clear - i know what the similarion is, but not etymologies. thanks. ... From: Donna Mair...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 7, 2002
3:06 am

"Silmarillion" actually. Maybe you can find that? It should be easy. :-) I'm surprised it wasn't right on the shelf with the other LotR stuff (or was there a ...
Daaniyah Halfelven
daaniyah_hal...
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Jun 7, 2002
3:29 am

The Etymologies are found in 'The Lost Road (The History of Middle Earth 5)'. Cuio mae, Danny....
DDanielA@...
uialdil
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Jun 7, 2002
4:26 am

thanks Danny, i have seen lost road on the shelf - now i can pick it up! donna ... 5)'. ... -...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 7, 2002
4:30 am

Aiya! Thankee much. Darn... all I have is 3 and 4. :-P Namaarie! ===== Tenn' enomentielva. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? ...
Daaniyah Halfelven
daaniyah_hal...
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Jun 7, 2002
4:36 am

greetings, here is the final (i hope) version of the 23rd psalm in sindarin. It was a group effort to be sure. I Chir ever nin u-bauron Ho anna idh nin ned...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 7, 2002
11:48 pm

Teithant Donna Mair ... Hate to reign in your parade (sorry, a cliche), but are you absolutely sure you want to leave it at that..? I just mean the "poetical...
elhath ...
sp12@...
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Jun 8, 2002
2:28 am

... are ... those ... Have any instances of verbing been found in attestable Sindarin?...
slimehoo
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Jun 10, 2002
2:27 am

... That's not a cliche. That's a new one. The cliche is "rain on your parade." <G> ... Now *that* looks like Sindarin. Tony...
Anthony J. Bryant
sengokudaimyo
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Jun 8, 2002
1:53 pm

... Er... Because Donna's own version *did not* look like Sindarin? Not only it is not a very kind way to encourage people writing in Elvish, but I have to...
almacq.geo
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Jun 9, 2002
11:50 am

i cannot remember who wrote that response, but it sounded interesting. Bôr in sindarin is trusty man, faithful follower. I know no quenya so have no idea what...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jul 12, 2002
6:18 am

teithant Donna Mair ... Boro-miir, "steady jewel" Quenya and Sindarin.. it would be *Voromiir if all Quenya and *Boroviir if all Sindarin ... i have heard it...
Gildor Inglorion
elfiness
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Jul 12, 2002
10:13 am

thank you. donna ... From: Gildor Inglorion [mailto:elfiness@...] Sent: July 12, 2002 3:13 AM To: elfling@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [elfling] Re:...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jul 12, 2002
1:17 pm

... Since you are not using * , where is this translation by Tolkien attested ?...
laurifindil
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Jul 12, 2002
1:35 pm

teithant laurifindil ... as you know, Boromiir is found in Etymologies under both BOR and MIR, the first meaning "faithfulness, steadfastness" etc, and the...
Gildor Inglorion
elfiness
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Jul 12, 2002
2:22 pm

... (Why the :/ in your response?) Yes, but _Etymologies_ are not always reliable for understanding names, as they only reflect Tolkien's ideas at one stage,...
almacq.geo
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Jul 13, 2002
3:00 pm

... The question which you so rapidly anwsered was, more or less, "how come that Boromir is a Sindarin/Quenya name ?" as explained by Tolkien in LOTR... Is...
laurifindil
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Jul 14, 2002
9:50 pm

teithant laurifindil ... saying that "in pure sindarin the name would be *Boroviir", the questioner would understand that the quenya part is -miir ... nope,...
Gildor Inglorion
elfiness
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Jul 14, 2002
10:39 pm

... Greetings, I am not sure if someone else answered this…but here are my two cents anyway. In Sindarin, although to me it does not make much sense, I found...
Yours Truly
siberian_blue18
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Jul 14, 2002
9:53 pm

... The Boromir implied in "Etymologies" is in fact yet another, Boromir the faithful Easterling, son of Bór; his name was later substituted by _Borlach_....
Beregond. Anders Sten...
j_beregond
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Jul 20, 2002
9:55 am

Aia, I have put my Quenya version of this Psalm on Lindelohte. All comments welcome. Bye, Thomas pub83.ezboard.com/belfcomp ... ...
Thomas Ferencz
percival64
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Jun 8, 2002
7:08 pm

Teithant Didier Willis ... Quite. They were perhaps merely "sindarinized" forms of the Quenya equivalents, necessary in order to complete the example, and were...
elhath ...
sp12@...
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Jun 9, 2002
1:48 pm

... Didier wrote: >While this new version is actually better on some points, it also have its flaws. I am extremely curious where this version is actually...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 11, 2002
3:44 am

Teithant Donna Mair ... 'He leads me to the right path for his good name.' Elhath _________________________________________________________________ Join the...
elhath ...
sp12@...
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Jun 11, 2002
8:44 am

greetings again, i am looking for two words in sindarin. I need a word that means destiny - the closest i can come is <manadh> which means fate, fortune, doom...
Donna Mair
lotr_osgiliath
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Jun 20, 2002
11:42 pm

Hey Donna, I do not know of a word that means "destiny" exactly, but I will tell you that in Tolkien's writings, from what I have read, the word 'doom' means ...
Yours Truly
siberian_blue18
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Jun 21, 2002
8:03 pm

I think that _manadh_ should work if your only hangup is on the translation "doom". It's Tolkien's kind of doom, as when Elrond tells Aragorn that "A great...
aerlinnel
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Jun 21, 2002
8:04 pm
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