Hello All,
Yes, Wallace has two FB pages.

No, I wasn't part of A.R.E. back
then but I did look in from time
to time. I didn't see the point
in going around and around
with them (Smith, Wallace, etc.).
It would be like trying to have
a rational discussion with Grover
Norquist or Sarah Palin.

Prometheus

al_radzik  wrote:
>
Perhaps he has two Facebook
pages but I know for sure THIS
is the Michael Wallace I'm referring to:

http://www.facebook.com/ecallaw.leachim?ref=ts&fref=ts

> He spells his name backwards
(which was common practice when
he didn't want people to know what
he was up to).

He and Rich Smith were the most
vitriolic members of a.r.e. A real
wiseass. He also peddles something
called number harmonics.
www.numberharmonics.com.

For a price he will take your name,
date of birth and some other personal
info and send you a CD that "resonates"
with you and "heal" you. What a scam!

Were you part of a.r.e back in those
days "Prometheus"?
>
>
"prometheus_973"  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Al, Sharon, and All,
> > It could be that Wallace was
> > suckered into buying that EK
> > book "Teach Yourself Singing
> > If You Can Talk You Can Sing."
> > I saw it listed on his FB page.
> >
> > Anyway here's his FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/michael.wallace.965928

> > [If this doesn't come up when clicked
> > just copy and Google it]
> >
> > He has a youthful pic of himself
> > which, IMO, depicts denial and
> > a fear of aging. Kind of like with
> > Klemp's more youthful Wisdom
> > Notes pic. Monkey see, monkey do!
> >
> > You can tell it's EKie Wallace
> > by his friends list. Funny, too,
> > that he likes Texas Holdem Poker.
> >
> > Prometheus
> >
> > al_radzik  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Sharon, do you remember Michael Wallace on a.r.e?
> > I found him on You Tube playing and singing a Beatle song.
> > Man, this guys really sucks!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffsj_w-w_os&list=UURbiQ2wbWJjzsK_vK2Yu4Jg&index=7

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick" <russrodnick@...> wrote:

> I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound current.

Some of the spiritual groups promote that concept. That initiation, and/or the
Master connects the student to the sound current.

But that isn't necessary. The sound is just a natural part of life. I think most
people started hearing it in childhood, though they may not remember.

I remember hearing it as a kid, head on the pillow. Listening to it seemed to
open doors somehow -- until I drifted off to sleep.

> Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?

I do not think in any way it is bogus, or tinnitus, or that it is a product of
the physical body like ... like digestive sounds or heartbeat sounds.

The sound for me is like an electrical current, it charges me up and brings me
to a higher place. Mostly it's a whistle or like a note from a wind instrument.

On some occasions it leads to music. It can sound like a giant stereo orchestra
that never repeats. Or like an ultra pure bell sound, unlike any Earth bell.

I doubt that any of it is caused by thinking or belief, hallucination, or random
nervous system activity or what I had for breakfast.

David,

Pay no attention to this Tricia McCannon woman and her syncretic blend of
science, archaeology, history and religion.

The missing years of JESUS have been revealed by a modern day prophet and posted
to YOUTUBE: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1LC7AotNE</a>


Jesus The Missing Years
©John Prine

     (spoken)
     Jesus.... the missing years

     It was raining. It was cold
     West Bethlehem was no place for a twelve year old
     So he packed his bags and he headed out
     To find out what the world's about
     He went to France. He went to Spain
     He found love. He found pain.
     He found stores so he started to shop
     But he had no money so he got in trouble with a cop
     Kids in trouble with the cops
     From Israel didn't have no home
     So he cut his hair and moved to Rome
     It was there he met his Irish bride
     And they rented a flat on the lower east side of Rome...
     Italy that is
     Music publishers, book binders, Bible belters, Money Changers,
     Spoon Benders and lots of pretty Italian chicks.

     Chorus:
     Charley bought some popcorn
     Billy bought a car
     Someone almost bought the farm
     But they didn't go that far
     Things shut down at midnight
     At least around here they do
     Cause we all reside down the block
     Inside at ....23 Skidoo.

     Wine was flowing so were beers
     So Jesus found his missing years
     So He went to a dance and said "This don't move me"
     He hiked up his pants and he went to a movie
     On his thirteenth birthday he saw "Rebel without a Cause"
     He went straight on home and invented Santa Claus
     Who gave him a gift and he responded in kind
     He gave the gift of love and went out of his mind
     You see him and the wife wasn't getting along
     So he took out his guitar and he wrote a song
     Called "The Dove of Love Fell Off the Perch"
     But he couldn't get divorced in the Catholic Church
     At least not back then anyhow
     Jesus was a good guy he didn't need this shit
     So he took a pill with a bag of peanuts and
     A Coca-Cola and he swallowed it.
     He discovered the Beatles
     And he recorded with the Stones
     Once He even opened up a three-way package
     In Southern California for old George Jones

     Repeat Chorus:

     The years went by like sweet little days
     With babies crying pork chops and beaujolais
     When he woke up he was seventeen
     The world was angry. The world was mean.
     Why the man down the street and the kid on the stoop
     All agreed that life stank. All the world smelled like poop
     Baby poop that is ..the worst kind
     So he grew his hair long and threw away his comb
     And headed back to Jerusalem to find Mom, Dad and home
     But when he got there the cupboard was bare
     Except for an old black man with a fishing rod
     He said "Whatcha gonna be when you grow up?"
     Jesus said "God"
     Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?
     I'm a human corkscrew and all my wine is blood
     They're gonna kill me Mama. They don't like me Bud.
     So Jesus went to Heaven and he went there awful quick
     All them people killed him and he wasn't even sick
     So come and gather around me my contemporary peers
     And I'll tell you all the story of
     Jesus...The Missing Years

     Repeat Chorus:

     We all reside down the block
     Inside at ....23 Skidoo.


--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, David Osborn <panfluteman2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I was recently very much attracted repeatedly to a certain book I found in a
favorite bookstore of mine in Tucson, so I bought it.  It was entitled, Jesus:
The Explosive Story of the 30 Lost Years and the Ancient Mystery Religions, and
the author was Tricia McCannon.  In her bio, which is at the back of the book,
she lists, as part of her spiritual background and paths that she has studied,
"the Shabda teachings of the Masters of the Far East", in addition to things
like goddess teachings, Native American Wisdom, and mystical Christianity. 
>
> Anyway, in one of the first chapters in the book, when she is dropping a few
names of various spiritual masters, amongst mentions of the Great White
Brotherhood and Koot Hoomi of Theosophical fame, she speaks of the Vairagi
Masters, as well as names like Rebazar Tarzs and Yaubl Sacabi.  Especially from
those last two names, I felt that it was a dead giveaway that she had been
previously involved in Eckankar in her past life (or a previous incarnation). 
So, I find her email address online, and send her an email saying that it seems
like our spiritual paths have crossed before...  Have you ever studied a
teaching called Eckankar?
>
> Anyway, It has been several weeks more than a month, probably almost two
months now, since I wrote her that email, and I haven't heard from her at all. 
Anyway, it seems after reading about half of her big fat 400-some-odd page book
( I couldn't get all the way through it) that she connects Jesus with just about
every possible mystical sect and group that was floating around in his day - not
only the Essenes, but also the Celts and Druids, the Egyptian mystery schools,
Zoroastrianism and Mithraism, etc...  that this book is mainly an overblown,
glorified introduction to some Mystery School correspondence courses that she is
offering.  She dubs herself "The Mysteries Expert" and says on her website, I
believe it is www.triciamccannonspeaks.com , that she is resurrecting the
ancient Mysteries through a modern day Mystery School.
>
> Anyway, does anyone in this group have any further knowledge or experience of
this lady, Tricia McCannon, or has anyone in this group done any further
research on her and what she is offering?  Or how she operates, and what her
exact level of knowledge, expertise and integrity is - or her real background,
for that matter, should it be any different than what she claims?  Is she merely
trying to start her own Eckspawn group, with a few other exotic things woven
into the tapestry?  Please advise!
>
> Sincerely,
> David O.
>

Have you read the "Sar Bachan" by Shiv Dayal Singh, other other books on Sant
Mat?

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> All this talk about sound current and different planes of reality. Geez, it
reeks of eckankar! Has anyone entertained the idea that the "sounds" you hear on
the inner could be simply bodily processes like for example, blood coursing
through the arterial system or neural synapses firing? Why does it have to MEAN
something spiritual.
> It's a big "SO WHAT" in my book. What could you possibly learn from hearing
these sounds. Eckankar always had the knack for taking mundane aspects of life
and associating them with some divine meaning.
> Sorry but no one shall ever "know" God because the Created can never know the
Creator. They can only exercise faith and sometimes THAT even fails on a bad
day.
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom" <iam999freedom@> wrote:
> >
> > That is a very interesting experience you had.....maybe more than just a
coincidence..... as you intimated in your prologue about the possible use of
modern technology.
> >
> > The first time I heard the single note of the flute was when I was about 8
years old. (1963 or so). It was a very clear sound and like you it sounded like
it came from within me. While it was very beautiful, to be honest I was quite
afraid that I was hearing things. I did a double take to make sure it wasn't
coming from my physical environment and was as sure as I could be that it was
coming from within me.
> >
> > My parents were Roman Catholics and I had absolutely no exposure, that I
know of at least, to an eastern religion. Eckankar was not in my city until
around 1971.
> >
> > I don't know exactly what to make of it all but you raise some interesting
points.
> >
> > As Richard Syrett from the Conspiracy Show would say "we want to know what
you think". LOL but I'm not being facetious.
> >
> > Freedom
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
> > >
> > > "Also, I'm not sure our science is at a point whereby all sounds beings
> > > hear can be measured by a physical instrument."
> > >
> > > What do you think about the day - if it hasn't already dawned - where
> > > people can non-locally cause such influences as light and sound,
> > > through modern technology, to manifest in a person's head, or "inner
> > > worlds", without that person's knowledge? I'm being serious here and
> > > are not trying to go off on the conspiracy theory bandwagon.
> > >
> > > I ask this question because I seriously believe it has to be included
> > > as a consideration, at least. Not to say that it is, or has been done
> > > (that I can prove), but that the technology is more than likely
> > > inevitable.
> > >
> > > ***
> > >
> > > Here's an example of my experience with the "sound". Shortly after
> > > signing up as a new Eckankar member I heard the single note of a flute
> > > as I was going about my day rummaging around in the basement. It was
> > > not a sound in the outer environment, but sounded like it came from
> > > within me. It sounded just like as if a person had a flute and blew a
> > > single note. It wasn't high-pitched, and it sounded almost like a
> > > woodwind. It lasted for probably about three to four seconds. Just
> > > enough for me to do a double-take. I had been talking to a person from
> > > the local Eckankar center on the phone for a few days to weeks before
> > > this thing happened. And they kept encouraging me to chant HU and maybe
> > > to listen for the single note of a flute. Now, I have not had a sound
> > > such as that happen to me ever in my life that I can remember. And
> > > certainly not without any initiative on my part. I was going about my
> > > day, not thinking of HU, or doing a spiritual exercise or anything.
> > > See, it just "happened" to me. Just like the high-pitched cutting
> > > sounds that came to visit me at night and before bed over a period of
> > > months years later. One time the sound came when I had company sleeping
> > > over, and it was where my body would become paralyzed as the sound grew
> > > in intensity. Why did it happen that night? Why couldn't it have waited
> > > until there was not another person sleeping in my room just feet away?
> > >
> > > Whatever some of these things are, I think they can often come like  a
> > > thief in the night and where a person can hardly do a thing to stop it
> > > (if they even know when it's going to happen).
> > >
> > > And incidentally, from what I've heard, most people have the phenomenal
> > > type of experiences right in the beginning and then don't have so much
> > > of it years later.
> > >
> > > To be completely honest I can't say for sure what all these sounds and
> > > lights are and where they actually come from. It could be a number of
> > > different things. That's all I can say at this point.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: iam999freedom <iam999freedom@>
> > > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2012 6:31 pm
> > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
> > >
> > >  
> > > I think it's quite possible that say ten thousand years ago (or
> > > whenever) a human could have heard say a woodwind like sound as a
> > > "inner" sound. It's just that then no one had a word for such a sound
> > > and talking about hearing "inner music" during that time in history
> > > would likely result in very negative consequences. Some Greek
> > > philosophers believed that things on the outer (eg., trees) actually
> > > are manifestations of "ideals" on the inner. Also, many inventors have
> > > said they received their ideas in a dream (inner) or while
> > > comptemplating a possibility.
> > >
> > > Certainly sound is universal in that everbody does hear sound....except
> > > the born as completely deaf. Even they may hear some inner sounds. I
> > > don't know enough about this to form an opinion. It's what individual
> > > beings enjoy or can even tolerate as sound that will differ.
> > >
> > > Also, I'm not sure our science is at a point whereby all sounds beings
> > > hear can be measured by a physical instrument.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your input. It got "my wheels turning".
> > >
> > > Freedom
> > >
> > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr no_reply@
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What is pleasing to the ear of a human is not necessarily so for
> > > other species. Some instruments simply make cats and dogs cringe or run
> > > away, or they are indifferent to what us humans like to listen to or
> > > find celestial. If the sound current is so universal then why is this
> > > so? Even among differences in human culture, what sounds beautiful to
> > > one may be awful or out of tune to another. During the time of Jesus
> > > there were no violins or symphonic orchestras and other instruments.
> > > This shows that the sound current is a cultural creation based on
> > > experience of the world first. Nature sounds are the same. We weren't
> > > born with knowing what these sounds are like.
> > > >
> > > > An Anthropology study would be quite interesting in regards to
> > > this. Even harmony is quite different depending on cultural experience.
> > > Some find dissonance to be quite pleasing to the ear, and even dance to
> > > certain tunes, and then there are the tone deaf, who love all kinds of
> > > discordance.
> > > >
> > > > I too have had many experiences with sound and music, and intense
> > > lovely vibratory states that didn't necessarily have aroused a sound
> > > component, but rather all of the senses opening and expanding.
> > > >
> > > > Tygerpurr ; )
> > > >
> > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"
> > > <iam999freedom@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Etznab, I think you are missing the point regarding Russ's
> > > query of the subject line (above). Just because different groups cannot
> > > agree on the sounds or order of sounds etc., does not invalidate the
> > > experience of the sound current. Using this logic would invalidate all
> > > "spiritual experiences" just because all the various groups (and there
> > > are literally hundreds if not thousands of different groups in the
> > > world) disagree on many issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > My answer to his question was that through my own experience
> > > (as subjective as that may be) I think the sound current is fact. I
> > > just don't know exactly what the significance of it is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any other thoughts you or others may have?
> > > > >
> > > > > Freedom
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > etznab@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  I did some research not long ago about the sounds of various
> > > planes
> > > > >  according to a number of different groups. What I found was
> > > they did
> > > > >  not all agree. Some had "drums" for the lower planes and
> > > others had
> > > > >  drums for the highest planes. Also, there were a number of
> > > Sant Mat
> > > > >  groups even who did not agree on the order of sounds.
> > > > >
> > > > >  So maybe it does have something to do with the way neurons
> > > fire, or
> > > > >  there could be yet other factors involved.
> > > > >
> > > > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > > >  From: iam999freedom
> > > > >  To: eckankartruth
> > > > >  Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:20 pm
> > > > >  Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound
> > > Current?
> > > > >
> > > > >   
> > > > >  Hi Russ, years before I got into Eckankar I heard many
> > > sounds during
> > > > >  comtemplation such as roaring of the sea, tinkling of bells,
> > > buzzing of
> > > > >  bees, single note of a flute, "celestial" sounding music
> > > like woodwinds
> > > > >  to name a few.
> > > > >
> > > > >  As a matter of fact hearing these sounds is one of the main
> > > reasons why
> > > > >  I joined Eckankar. When I first saw the God Worlds chart at
> > > the
> > > > >  Eckankar centre I went "wow" a lot of this is what I have
> > > been
> > > > >  experiencing. Someone from Eckankar explained to me that
> > > often we are
> > > > >  prepared on the inner before we see Eckankar on the outer.
> > > Little did I
> > > > >  know at the time but found out later that Eckankar
> > > plagarized that
> > > > >  chart from another religion.
> > > > >
> > > > >  It has been 10 years since I left Eckankar and I still hear
> > > "celestial
> > > > >  music" on the inner just as I did before and during my stay
> > > in Eckankar.
> > > > >
> > > > >  I am not sure of the significance of the sound current. Of
> > > course there
> > > > >  is the explanation that each sound corresponds with a
> > > particular plane
> > > > >  beyond the physical dimension. I've also heard that hearing
> > > the inner
> > > > >  sounds signify Soul's longing to return to the "higher"
> > > worlds.
> > > > >
> > > > >  I can honestly say that I don't think hearing these sounds
> > > makes me
> > > > >  more spiritual than another (I have as many or more faults
> > > than I care
> > > > >  to admit) and there maybe is a so-called scientific reason
> > > such as my
> > > > >  neurons fire diffently than the average person.
> > > > >
> > > > >  I've often wondered and like so many issues regarding
> > > spirituality and
> > > > >  life in general I can only speculate as to what the truth it.
> > > > >
> > > > >  It's only been in the last couple of years that I've stopped
> > > trying to
> > > > >  figure it out and just simply enjoy it like I would hearing
> > > say
> > > > >  "Beethoven's 5th. (chuckle).
> > > > >
> > > > >  I enjoy your posts, Russ , and all the best to you.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Freedom
> > > > >
> > > > >  Russ Rodnick  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >    It's probably true what you say, that my subjective
> > > experience of
> > > > >  light and sound is objectively meaningless. The logic I
> > > spoke of
> > > > >  regarding the sound and light and degrees of density of
> > > matter, makes
> > > > >  quite a bit of sense. Just because eckankar talks about this
> > > doesn't
> > > > >  mean it's not real. Even a broken clock is accurate twice a
> > > day. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    You say God doesn't follow any physical laws that we are
> > > aware of. I
> > > > >  would suggest that God is present and manifests according to
> > > the
> > > > >  physical laws. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    Sure eck words and thoughts influenced my thinking. But so
> > > have other
> > > > >  teachings and authors. I feel no shame on that score. 
> > > > >
> > > > >   Did you belong to eck? did you ever experience the
> > > sound? 
> > > > >
> > > > >    I think lots of people have experienced the sound, so I
> > > don't think it
> > > > >  puts me on a higher plane or that my understanding is higher
> > > than
> > > > >  yours, though it may be. I don't really know you, so I won't
> > > > >  speculate. 
> > > > >
> > > > >   We can learn from each other, if we are sincere. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    You made a comment about faith connecting one to the
> > > higher power. I
> > > > >  imagine you have experiences that convince you of this
> > > truth, much the
> > > > >  same as I've experienced the sound current as a
> > > manifestation of the
> > > > >  higher power. It would be meaningless to accept such
> > > statements as true
> > > > >  without a way to personally verify them. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    When experiencing faith, it is your inner reality and it
> > > > >  differentiates you from other beings who also have their own
> > > inner
> > > > >  reality. I don't have a yardstick to say one is higher than
> > > other. You
> > > > >  have returned to your roots with fervor and excitement, so I
> > > say
> > > > >  bravo. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    We should each strive to be true to ourselves in our
> > > search for
> > > > >  ....meaning.
> > > > >
> > > > >   Thanks, 
> > > > >   Russ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   ________________________________
> > > > >    From: al_radzik
> > > > >   To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >   Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:38 PM
> > > > >   Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound
> > > Current?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >     I took Harold out of the equation, and what was left is
> > > my actual
> > > > >  experience. You asked what the sound current is, so I boiled
> > > it down
> > > > >  without any hocus pocus. 
> > > > >
> > > > >     You said, "I like to keep logic out of the spiritual
> > > equation".  I
> > > > >  don't leave that faculty out of the equation because I want
> > > to know
> > > > >  what is real and what is imagined. Religion in general has
> > > sold us a
> > > > >  bunch of hocum and created a powerful institution in the
> > > process. 
> > > > >
> > > > >     Faith, is a real quality but faith without logic and
> > > intellectual
> > > > >  analysis gives us a "stupid saint". 
> > > > >
> > > > >    Experience of this "light and sound" is purely subjective
> > > so You
> > > > >  cannot verify your "reality" to others logically so this
> > > experience
> > > > >  becomes meaningless. Religion is simply a set of beliefs
> > > concerning the
> > > > >  cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. It is not
> > > selling anything
> > > > >  you don't want to buy into.
> > > > >
> > > > >     I believe it is possible to develop along more than one
> > > line, ie
> > > > >  intellectual, emotional and physical. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    Of course but the application of logic to the
> > > presuppositions inspired
> > > > >  by faith is called theology. Theology is not absolute proof
> > > of God.
> > > > >  Your understanding of god is just as valid as mine even if I
> > > choose not
> > > > >  to try to understand my God. God is the creator. I am the
> > > created. I
> > > > >  can not be equal to God. I can only strive to use my
> > > physical assets to
> > > > >  attain a certain level of spirituality and relationship WITH
> > > god.
> > > > >
> > > > >     I can't respect a one sided argument and a lack of
> > > interest in
> > > > >  reality. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    And  I can't respect a one sided argument from someone who
> > > claims to
> > > > >  have a higher reality of God than me. That is why eckankar
> > > and all of
> > > > >  it's current and ex-followers who continue to use the
> > > Eckspeak to
> > > > >  explain their ties with god is total bullshit. Always was
> > > and always
> > > > >  will be dubious and cultic hogwash.
> > > > >
> > > > >     Yes, the sound current is, in my experience a part of
> > > 'inner
> > > > >  reality'. 
> > > > >
> > > > >    There is no inner and outer reality. We are part and
> > > parcel of the
> > > > >  Universe as a while. It is the same reality. Our ego
> > > separates the two.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Take it or leave it, it's really up to you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    ________________________________
> > > > >     From: al_radzik
> > > > >    To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >    Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:14 PM
> > > > >    Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
> > > Sound Current?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     
> > > > >    Sound pretty scientific. So everything vibrates at a
> > > different rate?
> > > > >     I like to keep "logic" out of the spiritual equation.
> > > Most of this
> > > > >  sounds hocus-pocus. God doesn't follow any physical laws
> > > that we are
> > > > >  aware of. It is purely faith that connects us to our higher
> > > power which
> > > > >  is of your own choosing.
> > > > >     You're correct. The Holy Spirit would be the most likely
> > > counterpart
> > > > >  to the light and sound that Harold speaks of. He's a bag of
> > > wind and
> > > > >  boring. I've heard him speak several times and he doesn't
> > > really do
> > > > >  anything for me. Just sayin'.
> > > > >
> > > > >    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >      It's an aspect of the Holy Spirit related to vibratory
> > > rates which
> > > > >  change according to the density of matter and the ratio of
> > > spirit to
> > > > >  matter. I hear it when I enter the silence within my self,
> > > listening
> > > > >  and feeling myself in this present moment.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     ________________________________
> > > > >      From: al_radzik
> > > > >     To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >     Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:17 AM
> > > > >     Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
> > > Sound Current?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >      
> > > > >
> > > > >      Refresh my memory. What is the sound current and how is
> > > it helpful
> > > > >  for you in real life? In Western religion perhaps its
> > > counterpart would
> > > > >  be "grace". That is the action of God in your life.
> > > > >      I am no longer interested in Eastern thought as a path
> > > to god. I
> > > > >  believe we are created by a loving and conscious Creator. I
> > > was
> > > > >  indoctrinated by Catholicism early in life and left it
> > > because we were
> > > > >  tought that the "big guy in the sky" was just sitting up
> > > there waiting
> > > > >  for you to screw up so he can punish you and send you to
> > > Hell". That is
> > > > >  the least of what god is. I have returned to my roots with a
> > > renewed
> > > > >  fervor and excitement like nothing I've ever felt.
> > > > >
> > > > >     --- In mailto:eckankartruth%40yahoogroups.com,
> > > "russrodnick"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >       I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex
> > > eckist,
> > > > >  interviewing David
> > > > >      Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
> > > > >       One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
> > > paraphrasing here,
> > > > >  that in his
> > > > >       mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar
> > > come from
> > > > >  because he is
> > > > >       finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
> > > more important
> > > > >  to have a
> > > > >      connection with the sound current.
> > > > >
> > > > >      I used to have that exact point of view. What changed
> > > for me?
> > > > >
> > > > >       One thing I used to feel good about when talking about
> > > eck was this
> > > > >  idea that it
> > > > >       has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
> > > synonymous with
> > > > >  the sound
> > > > >      current.
> > > > >
> > > > >       It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for
> > > a decade,
> > > > >  after becoming
> > > > >       a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused
> > > by the
> > > > >  plaigarism and
> > > > >      ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
> > > > >
> > > > >       I have a question concerning the sound current. I
> > > experience this
> > > > >  sound,
> > > > >       sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous
> > > to my study
> > > > >  of eck. Maybe
> > > > >       it isn't important, where you read about it, if you
> > > take it as a
> > > > >  principle and
> > > > >      work with it.
> > > > >
> > > > >      Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
> > > > >
> > > > >      This is an interesting point because I am interested in
> > > truth...
> > > > >
> > > > >       BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good
> > > work. But
> > > > >  this by itself
> > > > >       doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the
> > > question, "What
> > > > >  is the Truth
> > > > >       regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of
> > > connection with
> > > > >  the
> > > > >      Divine??"
> > > > >
> > > > >      Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >      Russ
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:

> Has anyone entertained the idea that the "sounds" you hear on the inner could
be simply bodily processes like for example, blood coursing through the arterial
system or neural synapses firing?

The sound current is easily distinguishable from blood pumping. Ordinary body
sounds don't provide an electric charge and mood lift. Synapses firing are
unlikely to sound like the melodies played by 1000 string instruments.

> What could you possibly learn from hearing these sounds.

That I am more than the physical body? That there is an energy wave within? You
don't need a bunch of Eck books to tell you that, all it takes is practice.

> Sorry but no one shall ever "know" God because the Created can never know the
Creator.

And you have this on what authority? Know Thyself is better advice.

I am curious as to how many people here have read any of the eastern Light and
Sound literature.  "Sar Bachan Radhasoami" (both prose and poetry) in particular
is quite fascinating.

Peace

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"  wrote:
>
> I said that I heard the  sound current several years before I ever heard about
Eckankar. What I meant by that and perhaps should have explained more clearly
(for brevity reasons I try to keep my e-mails short) is that I DID NOT need
Eckankar to experience the sound current and still do not.
>
> Just as you seem to have found a heart found connection with
> your religion I too find peace, joy, wisdom, and love from listening to the
sound current.
>
> I don't think Love and more(God)should be bottled up, packaged, and sold as a
particular brand like coke or pepsi but is ever expanding, nourishing, and free.
>
> Happy New Year with Love as best as I can express it to All,
> Freedom
>
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
> >
> > I forgot which post it was, but someone referred to their parents being
Roman Catholic and their experience of "inner sounds" was not explained until
1971 with EASTERN religion. I assume the poster meant Eckankar but
unfortunately, Eckankar is a blend of East and West. Twitchell tried to join the
two areas of thought into one conglomerate we've come to know as the "Light And
Sound".
> > Roman Catholicism has just as much if not more mystical aspects than one
might believe. The Bible is full of miracles and manifestations of the divine.
In the early 20th century, three children witnessed an apparition of Mary and
some of the great saints have had moments of spiritual awakenings. It's not
something that belongs solely to the East. The mere ritual of the Catholic Mass
is unto itself a miracle where the bread and wine are transubstantiated into the
body and blood of Jesus i.e. on a different level of reality.
> > Etznab and others seem to cling to this notion that the experiences they
have now with buzzing bees and flutes is real and that Eckankar's promise of
spiritual growth is coming true without help from the organization. That's fine,
but it is always in context with the Eck.
> > Twitchell's "religion" was quickly debunked but vestiges of it remain and in
the end, it really brought nothing new to the spiritual landscape of the world.
It was a "sandwich board/bumper sticker" mentality that many people latched onto
because it was easy, fast and quickly attainable via discourses.
> > As Bob Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind
blows".
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick  wrote:
> > >
> > > It's an aspect of the Holy Spirit related to vibratory rates which change
according to the density of matter and the ratio of spirit to matter. I hear it
when I enter the silence within my self, listening and feeling myself in this
present moment.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: al_radzik
> > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:17 AM
> > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Refresh my memory. What is the sound current and how is it helpful for you
in real life? In Western religion perhaps its counterpart would be "grace". That
is the action of God in your life.
> > > I am no longer interested in Eastern thought as a path to god. I believe
we are created by a loving and conscious Creator. I was indoctrinated by
Catholicism early in life and left it because we were tought that the "big guy
in the sky" was just sitting up there waiting for you to screw up so he can
punish you and send you to Hell". That is the least of what god is. I have
returned to my roots with a renewed fervor and excitement like nothing I've ever
felt.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:eckankartruth%40yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist,
interviewing David
> > > > Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
> > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that
in his
> > > > mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because
he is
> > > > finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to
have a
> > > > connection with the sound current.
> > > >
> > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
> > > >
> > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
that it
> > > > has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
sound
> > > > current.
> > > >
> > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
becoming
> > > > a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
plaigarism and
> > > > ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
> > > >
> > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
> > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of
eck. Maybe
> > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a
principle and
> > > > work with it.
> > > >
> > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
> > > >
> > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this
by itself
> > > > doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
the Truth
> > > > regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
> > > > Divine??"
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Russ
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
>
> Hey Sharon, do you remember Michael Wallace on a.r.e? I found him on You Tube
playing and singing a Beatle song. Man, this guys really sucks!!!
>
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffsj_w-w_os&list=UURbiQ2wbWJjzsK_vK2Yu4Jg&index=7
>


Good grief!  I have absolutely no interest in stuff like this, and I really
don't understand why you spend any time at all on such crap.

Alf, what you need is......grandkids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  RoFLMAO the other day at my
one-year-old great-grandson telling his daddy "NO".  Daddy's in the service
stationed far away, and I'm so thankful for today's technology, so I get to see
wonderful things like his first steps, first time eating spaghetti, etc.

In fact, you're the only human I've watched on YouTube, and I'm still waiting
for that CD you said you were going to send...had to be at least ten years ago.

I rarely go to YouTube, because I watch cute animal videos and end up spending
way too much time there.

Anyway, I just got back from the holidays at my son's - can't believe how fast
the boys are growing, and my new 9-month-old granddaughter is an absolute joy,
the sweetest & most good=natured baby who ever has been or ever will be!

Darn, it's hard to focus on the computer and stare out the window, ready to grab
the binoculars as soon as the neighborhood albino cardinal shows up again - I've
only seen it twice.  I bet it was at my feeder every day while I was gone!

I haven't looked at ET or even read my "daily digests" for about a month.  I was
shocked and horrified to find someone had pasted a commercial link for some
weight-loss thing - that post was removed and the member is banned.

And while I'm here, another thing - Michael Turner.  I might have just
"approved" one of his posts or something that referred to him.  Otherwise,
Michael, you know I've rejected your attempts to post here.  Nothing personal,
I'm sure you're sincere (or think you are) but I have a major problem with
anyone who calls themselves "Sri" and is trying to start their own "path",
mostly when they're between jobs, and includes the Twitchster in their list of
"masters".

You know, it's occurred to me that "sound & light" stuff is dumb and not worth
any attention at all.  "God", I think, is sort of just the life-force that's in
everything, and why does it get so much attention,with people starting religions
& stuff like that?

Uh-Oh, I am NOT going to let myself start rambling here, my fingers aren't
having a good day.

Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays, and why don't we celebrate *every* day?

Hugs,

me

It is quite possible some of the Eckankar writings were inspired by those books
you mentioned. Paul Twitchell once reportedly wrote:

"[....] I have a book in my collection called the Sar Bachan written by Sardar
Seva Singh, which is the teachings of the Sound Current, and acts as practically
my Bible!"

[Based on LTG Vol. 2, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1977, Fourth Printing 1986,
p. 149]

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "michael112658"  wrote:
>
> I am curious as to how many people here have read any of the eastern Light and
Sound literature.  "Sar Bachan Radhasoami" (both prose and poetry) in particular
is quite fascinating.
>
> Peace
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"  wrote:
> >
> > I said that I heard the  sound current several years before I ever heard
about Eckankar. What I meant by that and perhaps should have explained more
clearly (for brevity reasons I try to keep my e-mails short) is that I DID NOT
need Eckankar to experience the sound current and still do not.
> >
> > Just as you seem to have found a heart found connection with
> > your religion I too find peace, joy, wisdom, and love from listening to the
sound current.
> >
> > I don't think Love and more(God)should be bottled up, packaged, and sold as
a particular brand like coke or pepsi but is ever expanding, nourishing, and
free.
> >
> > Happy New Year with Love as best as I can express it to All,
> > Freedom
> >
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
> > >
> > > I forgot which post it was, but someone referred to their parents being
Roman Catholic and their experience of "inner sounds" was not explained until
1971 with EASTERN religion. I assume the poster meant Eckankar but
unfortunately, Eckankar is a blend of East and West. Twitchell tried to join the
two areas of thought into one conglomerate we've come to know as the "Light And
Sound".
> > > Roman Catholicism has just as much if not more mystical aspects than one
might believe. The Bible is full of miracles and manifestations of the divine.
In the early 20th century, three children witnessed an apparition of Mary and
some of the great saints have had moments of spiritual awakenings. It's not
something that belongs solely to the East. The mere ritual of the Catholic Mass
is unto itself a miracle where the bread and wine are transubstantiated into the
body and blood of Jesus i.e. on a different level of reality.
> > > Etznab and others seem to cling to this notion that the experiences they
have now with buzzing bees and flutes is real and that Eckankar's promise of
spiritual growth is coming true without help from the organization. That's fine,
but it is always in context with the Eck.
> > > Twitchell's "religion" was quickly debunked but vestiges of it remain and
in the end, it really brought nothing new to the spiritual landscape of the
world. It was a "sandwich board/bumper sticker" mentality that many people
latched onto because it was easy, fast and quickly attainable via discourses.
> > > As Bob Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind
blows".
> > >
> > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's an aspect of the Holy Spirit related to vibratory rates which
change according to the density of matter and the ratio of spirit to matter. I
hear it when I enter the silence within my self, listening and feeling myself in
this present moment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >  From: al_radzik
> > > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:17 AM
> > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Refresh my memory. What is the sound current and how is it helpful for
you in real life? In Western religion perhaps its counterpart would be "grace".
That is the action of God in your life.
> > > > I am no longer interested in Eastern thought as a path to god. I believe
we are created by a loving and conscious Creator. I was indoctrinated by
Catholicism early in life and left it because we were tought that the "big guy
in the sky" was just sitting up there waiting for you to screw up so he can
punish you and send you to Hell". That is the least of what god is. I have
returned to my roots with a renewed fervor and excitement like nothing I've ever
felt.
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:eckankartruth%40yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist,
interviewing David
> > > > > Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
> > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here,
that in his
> > > > > mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from
because he is
> > > > > finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to
have a
> > > > > connection with the sound current.
> > > > >
> > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this
idea that it
> > > > > has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with
the sound
> > > > > current.
> > > > >
> > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
becoming
> > > > > a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
plaigarism and
> > > > > ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this
sound,
> > > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of
eck. Maybe
> > > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a
principle and
> > > > > work with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this
by itself
> > > > > doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
the Truth
> > > > > regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with
the
> > > > > Divine??"
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Russ
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hey Grumpy Grandma! Who's the one that maintains this page?<LOL>
I don't spend any time on it at all. I just You Tubed a bunch of names from the
past and up he came!!!

You don't need a CD darling.
Go to www.catmoondaddy.com

We played in Philadelphia last night. I am beat today/. Have you been following
me on Facebook? My daughter Amanda just go engaged on New Year's Eve! This
grandpa thing might happen soon.

Alf (You Wench)


--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"  wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Sharon, do you remember Michael Wallace on a.r.e? I found him on You
Tube playing and singing a Beatle song. Man, this guys really sucks!!!
> >
> >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffsj_w-w_os&list=UURbiQ2wbWJjzsK_vK2Yu4Jg&index=7
> >
>
>
> Good grief!  I have absolutely no interest in stuff like this, and I really
don't understand why you spend any time at all on such crap.
>
> Alf, what you need is......grandkids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  RoFLMAO the other day at
my one-year-old great-grandson telling his daddy "NO".  Daddy's in the service
stationed far away, and I'm so thankful for today's technology, so I get to see
wonderful things like his first steps, first time eating spaghetti, etc.
>
> In fact, you're the only human I've watched on YouTube, and I'm still waiting
for that CD you said you were going to send...had to be at least ten years ago.
>
> I rarely go to YouTube, because I watch cute animal videos and end up spending
way too much time there.
>
> Anyway, I just got back from the holidays at my son's - can't believe how fast
the boys are growing, and my new 9-month-old granddaughter is an absolute joy,
the sweetest & most good=natured baby who ever has been or ever will be!
>
> Darn, it's hard to focus on the computer and stare out the window, ready to
grab the binoculars as soon as the neighborhood albino cardinal shows up again -
I've only seen it twice.  I bet it was at my feeder every day while I was gone!
>
> I haven't looked at ET or even read my "daily digests" for about a month.  I
was shocked and horrified to find someone had pasted a commercial link for some
weight-loss thing - that post was removed and the member is banned.
>
> And while I'm here, another thing - Michael Turner.  I might have just
"approved" one of his posts or something that referred to him.  Otherwise,
Michael, you know I've rejected your attempts to post here.  Nothing personal,
I'm sure you're sincere (or think you are) but I have a major problem with
anyone who calls themselves "Sri" and is trying to start their own "path",
mostly when they're between jobs, and includes the Twitchster in their list of
"masters".
>
> You know, it's occurred to me that "sound & light" stuff is dumb and not worth
any attention at all.  "God", I think, is sort of just the life-force that's in
everything, and why does it get so much attention,with people starting religions
& stuff like that?
>
> Uh-Oh, I am NOT going to let myself start rambling here, my fingers aren't
having a good day.
>
> Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays, and why don't we celebrate *every* day?
>
> Hugs,
>
> me
>

A.R.E. repost from 01/13/13

"[...] As for the Astral library dream, this is unfortunate that it has become
misunderstood in this way. I [Doug Marman] cover this in my book as well. I know
that some could say that I am just offering another interpretation, but how do I
know my interpretation is the correct one? The reason I feel confident is
because Harold talked with me about the whole issue of Paul's plagiarism shortly
before he had that dream and gave those talks or started writing about it. He
was quite straightforward and told me that even though it might be hard to
swallow he was discovering a growing list. I know Harold was not happy with what
he had learned and felt that Paul had left him a mess to clean up. This is
exactly what he says at the end of his Astral Library dream as well. [... .]"

[Based on: January 2003 Doug Marman T.S. post - Response to Usually Skeptical:
More Questions to Doug Marman]

http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=152&page=179#m144

My contributions to the "growing list".

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!searchin/alt.religion.eckanka\
r/Ref%23$2041391720

***

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/8\
lGt1TvUM3Q

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
>
>
> Hey Grumpy Grandma! Who's the one that maintains this page?

Arrgghhhh!  I am *s0* pissed, I'd just replied a whole lot but my pinky hit some
key and I lost it all!!!!  So, I'll try to reconstruct.  I'm using a little
netbook & not quite used to it.


> I don't spend any time on it at all. I just You Tubed a bunch of names from
the past and up he came!!!

I only YouTube cute baby & aninmal videos.

>
> You don't need a CD darling.
> Go to www.catmoondaddy.com

Just popped over there - so glad you've added some videos, I was getting tired
of "Here comes the sun""

And I just had a long reply to this but my pinky hit the wrong key and I lost it
all, so I'm trying again.  It's hard getting used to this little netbook.

>
> We played in Philadelphia last night. I am beat today/.

Cool!  Hey, I've got a musician nephew who's often in Philly, it would be so
cool if you two could get together & go to each other's gigs!  I think he's way
further south right now, he was just in the Poconos for a few months, he finally
got his degree so sadly he's going to have to get a haircut & a real job.  I
always amazes me how two such disgusting people, my brother & ex-sister-in-law,
could have such a great kid!


>Have you been following me on Facebook?

Nope, I *hate* Facebook, just go there maybe once a month to catch up on grand &
greaat-grandkids photos.


> My daughter Amanda just go engaged on New Year's Eve! This grandpa thing might
happen soon.
!!!
Wow, big congrats!!!  The guy with the health clubs?  Cool!!!   Oh, you have
*No* idea how wonderful grandkids are - you can spoil them and totally corrupt
them and there's not a darn thing your kids can do about it!!!!

Hope Katie's doing well too, and happy with whatever she's up to!  Funny how our
kids can be so different - wonderful in their own ways!

Anyway, a funny thing about Michael Turner - years ago, someone told me he's got
a really bad problem with body odor.  Maybe they don't have deodorant in
Australia.  <ggg>

>
> Alf (You Wench)
>

Ha, don't have the energy to be a wench anymore, especially a humble serving
one!

Hey, sweetie - send me an email!  I spend most of my online time doing consumer
surveys for points & $$ = hey, it's a living!

Wasn't life fun 10+ years ago when we were younger?  <ggg>  I think you've aged
a heck of a lot better than I have!

Love & Hugs,
And Big Wet Sloppy Ones!

me.



> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Sharon, do you remember Michael Wallace on a.r.e? I found him on You
Tube playing and singing a Beatle song. Man, this guys really sucks!!!
> > >
> > >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffsj_w-w_os&list=UURbiQ2wbWJjzsK_vK2Yu4Jg&index=7
> > >
> >
> >
> > Good grief!  I have absolutely no interest in stuff like this, and I really
don't understand why you spend any time at all on such crap.
> >
> > Alf, what you need is......grandkids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  RoFLMAO the other day at
my one-year-old great-grandson telling his daddy "NO".  Daddy's in the service
stationed far away, and I'm so thankful for today's technology, so I get to see
wonderful things like his first steps, first time eating spaghetti, etc.
> >
> > In fact, you're the only human I've watched on YouTube, and I'm still
waiting for that CD you said you were going to send...had to be at least ten
years ago.
> >
> > I rarely go to YouTube, because I watch cute animal videos and end up
spending way too much time there.
> >
> > Anyway, I just got back from the holidays at my son's - can't believe how
fast the boys are growing, and my new 9-month-old granddaughter is an absolute
joy, the sweetest & most good=natured baby who ever has been or ever will be!
> >
> > Darn, it's hard to focus on the computer and stare out the window, ready to
grab the binoculars as soon as the neighborhood albino cardinal shows up again -
I've only seen it twice.  I bet it was at my feeder every day while I was gone!
> >
> > I haven't looked at ET or even read my "daily digests" for about a month.  I
was shocked and horrified to find someone had pasted a commercial link for some
weight-loss thing - that post was removed and the member is banned.
> >
> > And while I'm here, another thing - Michael Turner.  I might have just
"approved" one of his posts or something that referred to him.  Otherwise,
Michael, you know I've rejected your attempts to post here.  Nothing personal,
I'm sure you're sincere (or think you are) but I have a major problem with
anyone who calls themselves "Sri" and is trying to start their own "path",
mostly when they're between jobs, and includes the Twitchster in their list of
"masters".
> >
> > You know, it's occurred to me that "sound & light" stuff is dumb and not
worth any attention at all.  "God", I think, is sort of just the life-force
that's in everything, and why does it get so much attention,with people starting
religions & stuff like that?
> >
> > Uh-Oh, I am NOT going to let myself start rambling here, my fingers aren't
having a good day.
> >
> > Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays, and why don't we celebrate *every* day?
> >
> > Hugs,
> >
> > me
> >
>

I've read quite a bit about People's Temple (Jim Jones).  I know that Jones
warned his followers that they would suffer dire consequences if they left the
"church" (the movement).  He also told followers they would be lost, and subject
to more reincarnations, if they left his "aura".

Doesn't the ek leader say things along these lines?  Aren't there things in the
books/literature similar to Jones's scare tactics?

Jay

You know, I believe anything is totally possible - heck, I even believe it's
totally possible that aliens are doing the mind-control thing too.  In fact, I
ran across a new website the other day where there seems to be a lot of info in
one place:  http://arcturi.com

I forget which shows - just remember, one of them was Jesse Ventura, who was
investigating some government place in Alaska, I'd seen it somewhere else, where
perhaps the govt is sending mind-control beams to everyone.

I've also knows a few strange people (to be honest I've thought perhaps they
were alien-human hybrids) who could do things like just stare at people across a
room and make them do things like scratch their heads...or fall asleep.  Not
everyone's susceptible to things like that TG.  And the ones who can do things
like that generally don't talk about it.

So, who knows?  But good grief, why doesn't the CiA (& aliens) do "good" things
with mind control?  Like, quit smoking & lose weight mind-control transmissions!
Or just "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others"?

There are a gazillion "good" things that could be done with mind control!!!!

I don't really believe in karma & reincarnation, either.  It makes no sense. 
Like, what if you've worked out all your "bad" karma and just released anyone
who might "owe" you some kind of karma, so that actually you shouldn't have to
come back?  Like, say someone owes you a lot of money but you really don't care
about it, always knew that they wouldn't pay me back altho they said they would.
If there's nothing else I have to come back for, would I have to come back
anyway so others could work out their karma with me?

I dunno, but when I think about so many things, nothing really makes sense when
you take it far enough.

What the heck, maybe we're all just lab rats, personally I'd like to just be a
happy lab rat, and focus on the nice things like grandkids & gardening.

Have a good one, everyone!

Hugs,

Sharon



--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Aelfric Solas  wrote:
>
> have you read the part where jonestown was a cia mind control test provided to
you at a great cost of many lives. have you read the part where jim jones was a
cia agent himself filling the part of patsy quite well, again using dispensable
people that no one's gonna miss. please don't leave out these and many other
juicy parts of what was a mind control experiment that didn't go as planned,
therefore most were, uh...let's go with "suicided" as a euphemism, ok?
> as far as the "bad karma" well, that little trip is STILL being played out on
the world stage, consequences reverberating decades into the future......
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "gatsby_jay@..."
> To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:55 AM
> Subject: [eckankartruth] bad karma
>
>
>  
> I've read quite a bit about People's Temple (Jim Jones).  I know that Jones
warned his followers that they would suffer dire consequences if they left the
"church" (the movement).  He also told followers they would be lost, and subject
to more reincarnations, if they left his "aura".
>
> Doesn't the ek leader say things along these lines?  Aren't there things in
the books/literature similar to Jones's scare tactics?
>
> Jay
>

Aelfric Solas, You and I have differing opinions regarding the jonestown
experience.  However, that is not my concern here.  My question was this:  Does
the eckankar literature (or leader) insinuate that bad things will befall the
follower who leaves the path?  Does he threaten bad karma, for example?  I am
not saying I believe these things;  I am curious as to whether scare tactics are
used to control followers.

I have never been an eckist, so I must ask those who know.

Thanks so much, Jay





--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Aelfric Solas  wrote:
>
> have you read the part where jonestown was a cia mind control test provided to
you at a great cost of many lives. have you read the part where jim jones was a
cia agent himself filling the part of patsy quite well, again using dispensable
people that no one's gonna miss. please don't leave out these and many other
juicy parts of what was a mind control experiment that didn't go as planned,
therefore most were, uh...let's go with "suicided" as a euphemism, ok?
> as far as the "bad karma" well, that little trip is STILL being played out on
the world stage, consequences reverberating decades into the future......
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "gatsby_jay@..."
> To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:55 AM
> Subject: [eckankartruth] bad karma
>
>
>  
> I've read quite a bit about People's Temple (Jim Jones).  I know that Jones
warned his followers that they would suffer dire consequences if they left the
"church" (the movement).  He also told followers they would be lost, and subject
to more reincarnations, if they left his "aura".
>
> Doesn't the ek leader say things along these lines?  Aren't there things in
the books/literature similar to Jones's scare tactics?
>
> Jay
>

Just a few of the fear & threat messages are at:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/threats.html

A good article including threats:
http://web.archive.org/web/20091022195731/http://geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/\
1756/eck.txt


Have you read the info in the links & files for more info?  I just popped into
the files but the one I was looking for wouldn't open for me.






--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "gatsby_jay@..."  wrote:
>
> Aelfric Solas, You and I have differing opinions regarding the jonestown
experience.  However, that is not my concern here.  My question was this:  Does
the eckankar literature (or leader) insinuate that bad things will befall the
follower who leaves the path?  Does he threaten bad karma, for example?  I am
not saying I believe these things;  I am curious as to whether scare tactics are
used to control followers.
>
> I have never been an eckist, so I must ask those who know.
>
> Thanks so much, Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Aelfric Solas  wrote:
> >
> > have you read the part where jonestown was a cia mind control test provided
to you at a great cost of many lives. have you read the part where jim jones was
a cia agent himself filling the part of patsy quite well, again using
dispensable people that no one's gonna miss. please don't leave out these and
many other juicy parts of what was a mind control experiment that didn't go as
planned, therefore most were, uh...let's go with "suicided" as a euphemism, ok?
> > as far as the "bad karma" well, that little trip is STILL being played out
on the world stage, consequences reverberating decades into the future......
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: "gatsby_jay@"
> > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:55 AM
> > Subject: [eckankartruth] bad karma
> >
> >
> >  
> > I've read quite a bit about People's Temple (Jim Jones).  I know that Jones
warned his followers that they would suffer dire consequences if they left the
"church" (the movement).  He also told followers they would be lost, and subject
to more reincarnations, if they left his "aura".
> >
> > Doesn't the ek leader say things along these lines?  Aren't there things in
the books/literature similar to Jones's scare tactics?
> >
> > Jay
> >
>

Yes, I have found your links now, and I do appreciate the info.  I had a couple
of questions that I wanted to ask former members.  Thanks again, Jay...

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"  wrote:
>
>
> Just a few of the fear & threat messages are at:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/threats.html
>
> A good article including threats:
>
http://web.archive.org/web/20091022195731/http://geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/\
1756/eck.txt
>
>
> Have you read the info in the links & files for more info?  I just popped into
the files but the one I was looking for wouldn't open for me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "gatsby_jay@"  wrote:
> >
> > Aelfric Solas, You and I have differing opinions regarding the jonestown
experience.  However, that is not my concern here.  My question was this:  Does
the eckankar literature (or leader) insinuate that bad things will befall the
follower who leaves the path?  Does he threaten bad karma, for example?  I am
not saying I believe these things;  I am curious as to whether scare tactics are
used to control followers.
> >
> > I have never been an eckist, so I must ask those who know.
> >
> > Thanks so much, Jay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Aelfric Solas  wrote:
> > >
> > > have you read the part where jonestown was a cia mind control test
provided to you at a great cost of many lives. have you read the part where jim
jones was a cia agent himself filling the part of patsy quite well, again using
dispensable people that no one's gonna miss. please don't leave out these and
many other juicy parts of what was a mind control experiment that didn't go as
planned, therefore most were, uh...let's go with "suicided" as a euphemism, ok?
> > > as far as the "bad karma" well, that little trip is STILL being played out
on the world stage, consequences reverberating decades into the future......
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: "gatsby_jay@"
> > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:55 AM
> > > Subject: [eckankartruth] bad karma
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > I've read quite a bit about People's Temple (Jim Jones).  I know that
Jones warned his followers that they would suffer dire consequences if they left
the "church" (the movement).  He also told followers they would be lost, and
subject to more reincarnations, if they left his "aura".
> > >
> > > Doesn't the ek leader say things along these lines?  Aren't there things
in the books/literature similar to Jones's scare tactics?
> > >
> > > Jay
> > >
> >
>

My first question had to do with 'scare tactics' being used to control eck
followers.  I have heard from a couple of former members who shed some light on
this.  Thanks for the responses.

Here is my other question:  If we assume that 'initiation' is a stolen and bogus
concept, how are initiations determined?  For example, are initiations granted
based on 'time' or 'commitment'.  ?

Thanks in advance for your tolerance with a newbie.

Jay

Just remembered an old "scare tactic" - the high holey secret members only
discourses used to have a little note on the first page, a warning that if you
let a non-member see the discourses, you'd get struck by lightning or something
- no, I think your spiritual growth would come to a screaming halt.  They toned
it down a bit by the time I got out.  But, there's a Klemp story he told about
when he was in the Air Force in Japan, another serviceman who he didn't like and
supposedly bullied him, was reading the discourses.  So, nasty things happened
to him.  I forget the gory details.

Another funny story, when Klemp was arrested for starting to strip in the
airport, a social worker accompanied him to his room before taking him to the
mental hospital.  Klemp distracted the man with something so he could hide his
discourses in the wastebasket.

The first initiation is given in the "dream state" which you may or may not
remember.  But, the eckbooks will tell you that basically, if you're reading an
eckbook or brochure, you got it.  Unless they've changed things, you can request
the 2nd initiation after I think two years of membership.  A "high initiate"
does this little ceremony - a brief reading from an eckbook, and a hu chant &
brief meditation where you may or may not get your new "word" on the inner.  If
you don't get one, the HI will give you one.  There's an HI-only manual that has
a list of "secret words".  Lowbies don't know about this little manual and the
secret word list - at least, they didn't until it started getting on the
internet.

Former HIs have shared that they had to send in reports about individual
eckists, like asking if they thought the eckist should get another initiation or
whatever.  Now, when I was an eckist I believed what the books told me - that
initiations were sacred & holy, and decided upon "on the inner" between master &
chela.  Not true.  Initiations are based on length of membership, level of
activity, donations, etc.  In fact, when I was an eckist there was an HI who
frequently asked me where I was on the initiation scale, she said I was right on
track & mine took me a bit longer because every so often I'd have to let my
membership lapse for financial reasons.

If you drop your membership for five years, you lose all your initiations & have
to start back at the beginning, altho I've heard that if people ask, they'll be
reinstated wherever they left off  The books say that if your membership lapses,
your spiritual growth will stop while members keep zooming ahead & growing
spiritually, so you're not just stopping -- you're going backwards!

Oh, I was also going to suggest you go back in the archives here - there's a lot
of good information.  I haven't looked at alt.religion.eckankar at Google Groups
for years, but that's the first place I landed when I first got on the internet
years ago - I was shocked, and went back to show those former members who were
speaking out the errors of what they were doing.  Well, it backfired and didn't
take me long to wake up and get un-eckbrainwashed.  There wasn't really a whole
lot of "truthful" information on the internet back then, so I started out trying
to change that.  Well, I didn't accomplish all I wanted to, and at this point to
be honest there are a gazillion other things I'd rather do, but I sincerely do
hope that one of these days I'll get caught up & be able to focus some time on
doing a good & comprehensive website.

You know, I'm glad if other members are helping you out privately, but just a
thought here - hey guys, if you post info here it'll help a lot more people!  I
have no room to talk, I get private emails too and answer them privately,
because people want to be anonymous.

Anyway - hey Alf, you're right, I *am* a grumpy grandma!!  I'm grumpy whenever I
have to do eckstuff.  <gg>  But, someone's gotta do it.  Others did it before me
and after me, and hopefully will keep doing it long after I'm gone.  And when I
look back and remember, there aren't enough words to thank all those who were
speaking out when I got on the internet, and helped me wake up and get my mind,
heart, and soul back!

I finally got around to getting a new printer/scanner a few months ago, but it's
still in the box  I want to put the discourses on the internet.  Oh - there's a
whole set on Ebay, let me check....nope, the discourses I saw there recently
aren't on sale anymore.  I'll watch eckstuff sometimes, no one buys it.  Have to
laugh, the "newbie freebie" book is always listed for sale, as far as I know
that's always been free via snailmail or download, eckists were supposed to buy
& distribute it...and this is hilarious, Darwin Gross's old vibraphone is up for
sale for $9,0000!!!!

I've seen a few TV ads for ekult recently, late at night, I forget on which
shows.

"Jay", it would be interesting if you'd like to share why you're interested in
ekult.  BTW, wish you'd picked another pseudo, I tried my best when we studied
"The Great Gatsby" in English 101, but still think it's an incredibly boring
book, I just didn't get it, still don't.  And the movie was even worse.

Okay, take care now everyone, and THINK SNOW!!!  Just a foot or so would be
wonderful!

Hugs,

Sharon


--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "gatsby_jay@..."  wrote:
>
> My first question had to do with 'scare tactics' being used to control eck
followers.  I have heard from a couple of former members who shed some light on
this.  Thanks for the responses.
>
> Here is my other question:  If we assume that 'initiation' is a stolen and
bogus concept, how are initiations determined?  For example, are initiations
granted based on 'time' or 'commitment'.  ?
>
> Thanks in advance for your tolerance with a newbie.
>
> Jay
>

Thems fightin words, Sharon - calling "The Great Gatsby" boring. JK.  I know
it's not for everybody.

Anyway, I do appreciate your post as it begins to answer my curiosity.

I have met a woman I care very much for, and she is an eckist.  Tho she is an
intelligent and perceptive woman, I don't think she has been in the group long
enough to know what she's getting into.  Of course, she would love me to become
involved, has given me an introductory book, etc.

I've heard some generally negative things about eckankar, and decided I would
look into it more. I want to talk with people who have personally been there.

I am leery of any group which inspires loyalty with intimidation.  I am also
wary of any group who attempts to codfy perfectly normal human growth and
expansion with numbers (for example, initiation #1, intitiation #2, etc.) That's
scarey.

Jay

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"  wrote:
>
>
> Just remembered an old "scare tactic" - the high holey secret members only
discourses used to have a little note on the first page, a warning that if you
let a non-member see the discourses, you'd get struck by lightning or something
- no, I think your spiritual growth would come to a screaming halt.  They toned
it down a bit by the time I got out.  But, there's a Klemp story he told about
when he was in the Air Force in Japan, another serviceman who he didn't like and
supposedly bullied him, was reading the discourses.  So, nasty things happened
to him.  I forget the gory details.
>
> Another funny story, when Klemp was arrested for starting to strip in the
airport, a social worker accompanied him to his room before taking him to the
mental hospital.  Klemp distracted the man with something so he could hide his
discourses in the wastebasket.
>
> The first initiation is given in the "dream state" which you may or may not
remember.  But, the eckbooks will tell you that basically, if you're reading an
eckbook or brochure, you got it.  Unless they've changed things, you can request
the 2nd initiation after I think two years of membership.  A "high initiate"
does this little ceremony - a brief reading from an eckbook, and a hu chant &
brief meditation where you may or may not get your new "word" on the inner.  If
you don't get one, the HI will give you one.  There's an HI-only manual that has
a list of "secret words".  Lowbies don't know about this little manual and the
secret word list - at least, they didn't until it started getting on the
internet.
>
> Former HIs have shared that they had to send in reports about individual
eckists, like asking if they thought the eckist should get another initiation or
whatever.  Now, when I was an eckist I believed what the books told me - that
initiations were sacred & holy, and decided upon "on the inner" between master &
chela.  Not true.  Initiations are based on length of membership, level of
activity, donations, etc.  In fact, when I was an eckist there was an HI who
frequently asked me where I was on the initiation scale, she said I was right on
track & mine took me a bit longer because every so often I'd have to let my
membership lapse for financial reasons.
>
> If you drop your membership for five years, you lose all your initiations &
have to start back at the beginning, altho I've heard that if people ask,
they'll be reinstated wherever they left off  The books say that if your
membership lapses, your spiritual growth will stop while members keep zooming
ahead & growing spiritually, so you're not just stopping -- you're going
backwards!
>
> Oh, I was also going to suggest you go back in the archives here - there's a
lot of good information.  I haven't looked at alt.religion.eckankar at Google
Groups for years, but that's the first place I landed when I first got on the
internet years ago - I was shocked, and went back to show those former members
who were speaking out the errors of what they were doing.  Well, it backfired
and didn't take me long to wake up and get un-eckbrainwashed.  There wasn't
really a whole lot of "truthful" information on the internet back then, so I
started out trying to change that.  Well, I didn't accomplish all I wanted to,
and at this point to be honest there are a gazillion other things I'd rather do,
but I sincerely do hope that one of these days I'll get caught up & be able to
focus some time on doing a good & comprehensive website.
>
> You know, I'm glad if other members are helping you out privately, but just a
thought here - hey guys, if you post info here it'll help a lot more people!  I
have no room to talk, I get private emails too and answer them privately,
because people want to be anonymous.
>
> Anyway - hey Alf, you're right, I *am* a grumpy grandma!!  I'm grumpy whenever
I have to do eckstuff.    But, someone's gotta do it.  Others did it before me
and after me, and hopefully will keep doing it long after I'm gone.  And when I
look back and remember, there aren't enough words to thank all those who were
speaking out when I got on the internet, and helped me wake up and get my mind,
heart, and soul back!
>
> I finally got around to getting a new printer/scanner a few months ago, but
it's still in the box  I want to put the discourses on the internet.  Oh -
there's a whole set on Ebay, let me check....nope, the discourses I saw there
recently aren't on sale anymore.  I'll watch eckstuff sometimes, no one buys it.
Have to laugh, the "newbie freebie" book is always listed for sale, as far as I
know that's always been free via snailmail or download, eckists were supposed to
buy & distribute it...and this is hilarious, Darwin Gross's old vibraphone is up
for sale for $9,0000!!!!
>
> I've seen a few TV ads for ekult recently, late at night, I forget on which
shows.
>
> "Jay", it would be interesting if you'd like to share why you're interested in
ekult.  BTW, wish you'd picked another pseudo, I tried my best when we studied
"The Great Gatsby" in English 101, but still think it's an incredibly boring
book, I just didn't get it, still don't.  And the movie was even worse.
>
> Okay, take care now everyone, and THINK SNOW!!!  Just a foot or so would be
wonderful!
>
> Hugs,
>
> Sharon
>
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "gatsby_jay@"  wrote:
> >
> > My first question had to do with 'scare tactics' being used to control eck
followers.  I have heard from a couple of former members who shed some light on
this.  Thanks for the responses.
> >
> > Here is my other question:  If we assume that 'initiation' is a stolen and
bogus concept, how are initiations determined?  For example, are initiations
granted based on 'time' or 'commitment'.  ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your tolerance with a newbie.
> >
> > Jay
> >
>

Hi Sharon,

> Oh - there's a whole set on Ebay, let me check....nope, the discourses I
> saw there recently aren't on sale anymore. I'll watch eckstuff
> sometimes, no one buys it. Have to laugh, the "newbie freebie" book is
> always listed for sale ...

LOL, you can also have the Jehovah's Witness freebie book for 99p.
What's a bit scary is that someone is selling a leather cover for the
stupid thing.  Do people revere it so much that they want to buy it a
special leather home?

The Witnesses have a tax dodge where they say that their books are given
away rather than sold.  They hint that the person who takes the book
from the Kingdom Hall could make a donation to cover the cost.  I've
always wondered what would happen if someone went to a Kingdom Hall and
took armloads of books to sell, without making a donation.  If it turns
out that this isn't allowed, the tax authorities might be interested.

Funnily enough my 'proper' JW stuff -- the books from the 1920s and
earlier -- is going up in value.  I've got several editions of the Harp
of God that I paid about £5 each for.  Now they seem to be selling for
about £20, so I'm holding on to them in case they go up further!

> I've seen a few TV ads for ekult recently, late at night, I forget on
> which shows.

I'm surprised that works for a cult like Eckankar, that doesn't have
many members.  If someone watches the advert and wants to get in touch
with other Eckankar members, presumably that wouldn't be possible unless
they live in a big city.  Or is the idea that they just pay money and
practise Eckankar on their own?

I'd quite like to pay the Scientologists a visit, but I have the same
problem.  They don't have many members either, so it would be a hundred
mile trip.  Curiosity isn't worth that much!

Pete

Liz, I am not a member of HU Chat.  Would you mind sharing (briefly) what those
messages said (concerning initiation).

Also, Sharon referred me to a link that displayed Twitchell writings that used
'scare tactics'.  Has Harold replaced this kind of thing, or does he continue to
use intimidation?

Thanks, Jay

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, ewickings@... wrote:
>
> --- In _eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com)
> ,  "Christy"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I thought I'd join  to see what I might be missing in the fine
> > print.  After years of  being told how horrid leaving Eckankar would
> > be, I finally ended my  membership secretly just to see what would
> > happen.  I think it's  been a year.  I like the spiritual teachings of
> > Eck, but separatly  I have questionable feelings about any physical
> > orgainized religion,  Eckankar included.
> > So we'll see how this works out.
> >  Christy
> >
>
> Hi Christy, Excellent that you question your feelings about any physical
> organized religion, and it's leaders!
>
> What might be missing in the fine print... well if you have been around the
> teachings long enough you will find Harold has systematically removed many of
> Paul Twitchell's original writings, and edited the rest that the org still
> offers. That includes the discourses!  Ever wonder why Harold also removed 
the
> two wonderful books by James Davis, especially the one that covers  those
> wonderful eck masters, "The Rosette Stone of God"? (wasn't that the title) 
Well
> the reason is simple, James Davis woke up!  ESC and Harold  couldn't say
> enough about the accuracy and wonderfulness of James experiences  with all
those
> wonderful eck masters..... until of course he left quietly one  day. Most
Eckist
> had no clue he left, and even more confused by the  fact they no longer could
> purchase this book!  Harold had to  gather all those wonderful BS stories
> about the eck masters to replace the one  James wrote. And now we have the
book
> by Harold, "Those Wonderful Eck  Masters".
>
> I would recommend you check out David Lane's lecture just recently  posted
> _http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=eckankar_
> (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=eckankar)     With an open mind, listen
to what David says about Paul
>  Twitchell and Eckankar. Too bad we can't listen to the entire lecture.  Hey
> David if you still read from this site, we would love the full  version.
>
> Another point I would like to make, take the time to check out  the links and
> other chat groups mentioned recently within this  site.
>
> Not too long ago I was reading from the Hu-chat archives and to my  amazement
> one of their own HIs posted the truth behind the lies concerning how
> initiations are given within the org.  It actually stirred up some issues 
with the
> Hu-chatters, even several other HIs admitted this long time HI was  right, and
> seems the moderators found nothing wrong with the members  finding out the
> truth about those fake initiations.   Check out the  messages on Hu-chat #
50888
> and 50993 forward... I believe it covered much  of Nov 2005 and part of Dec.
> 2005.    But hurry those self  righteous HI moderators might remove them
before
> you get a chance...
>
> As for what might happen to an eckie that leaves the path; I was a  member
> for 30 plus years, an HI 6th Initiate, Initiator and an Eck  Spiritual Aid.
(so
> yes what was shared on Hu-chat about those  initiations is all true!)  My life
> is really no different, and I  believe my signature says it all,
>
> "The only  difference between an extraordinary life and an ordinary one is
> the  extraordinary pleasures you find in ordinary things."
>
> So Christy go out and enjoy your life, husband and your wonderful  children.
> You are not alone....  unfortunately the LEM /  Mythical Mahanta, along with
> his flunky eck thugs would like to  believe ex eckist are suffering!  Damn it
> hurts when Klemp calls  us LOSERS!   ;-D
>
> I for one am very happy and enjoying every minute of  life.
>
> Liz
>

Hi Sharon,
   You know I love you and I'm only kidding! We've had a cyber-relationship for
over 15 years and only met twice in person but it's been quite a ride through
the halls of a.r.e. and Eckankartruth, hasn't it? I was just reading my 2006
response to the "newbie" about being married and having kids and a house and all
the finer things in life. Jeez, how much has changed since then! Not that karma
has caught up with me but as John Lennon said "Life is what happens while you're
making other plans". One of those "beautiful daughters" is getting married next
year and called me up the other night to ask me if I would sing her first song
as "husband and wife." I was very touched by that! She wants her old "grumpy"
dad to sing her first song!
   The house is sold and the marriage is over but it's all still good. As you
know I still have the music and we are still playing! It's been over 40 years on
the road and I don't see an end to it until I go six feet under.
Regarding Eckankar. I've been thinking about something I haven't dare say for a
long time. You know we talk about the controlling aspects of this so called cult
and how we suffer consequences if we leave the path. In all truth, the reason it
is still around is because people allow themselves to be taken in by it. I am
finally coming out of the closet on this perception. I was afraid to say
anything for a long time lest I offend my ex-Eck compatriots.
At some point we did choose to join and was it because we wanted to know the
secrets of the Universe? I highly doubt it. I think everyone has a secret desire
to belong. Isolation is our worst enemy and sometimes we go to great lengths to
avoid it (otherwise we wallow in it). Eckankar provides that false sense of
security that we are part of an elite club of followers with a common desire to
interact. That need to love and be loved is universal. Some join bowling
leagues, knitting clubs, softball teams for paunchy middle-aged men and some
join bands to capture the good old days of youth. Unfortunately, the problem is
not inherent in Eckankar itself. The problem is us. As long as there are
followers, it WILL exist. Why do we get tangled up with these organizations?
I believe there is something missing in our lives. We sometimes don't feel
entirely like members of the human race and need something to soothe the pain of
isolation and loneliness. It is like alcohol. It takes over like a rapacious
creditor and before you know it, once the man takes the drink, the drink takes
the man. Eckankar is like alcohol. You take the first "drink" or "discourse" and
now you are on your journey to a "fulfilled" life. What we don't realize is that
the path is full of lies and deceptions but it does for a while make you feel
strong, confident and self-righteous. As time goes on, you progressively rise to
the ranks of HI and become more involved. It consumes you and then ironically
puts you back in isolation. Hard core Eckists look at the world through
blue-colored glasses. Everything is all about the light and sound as taught by
Harold. We fall for it because we were told to believe it was the answer to all
our questions and problems BUT we end up not asking too many questions. We need
that dose of HU every day until it doesn't work anymore. We fall for it because
we are unfulfilled to begin with.
So now we wonder why, although WE have left the path yet there are still Eckists
out there. Well that's simple. Like alcoholics, they are hopelessly in denial.
This is where I take a slight turn on the god thing. I wouldn't encourage anyone
to become Catholic or JW in lieu of Eckankar but you need to be able to have
choices in life and your spiritual health is contingent on being rigorously
honest with yourself. A god of your own understanding is all you need. Just
simply praying and meditating is sufficient to put you in touch with your higher
power what ever that might be. We don't need monthly discourses, conventions or
yearly dues to achieve this but we DID IT because we are children in the
wilderness looking for comfort and solace in an indifferent and crazy world.
Eckists need the Temple in Chanhassen and the yearly seminars to look forward to
meeting other "Eckaholics".
You've seen first hand the revenge of Eckists on a.r.e. They've called my mother
to find my phone number and one guy in Australia found out where I worked and
threatened to call my boss and let him know about my shenanigans on the
newsgroup. They've constructed websites with pictures of me with little red
devils poking me with pitchforks. They'd gone to great lengths to silence me
because I was too close to their lies. Is this the work of peace-loving
god-worshipping folks?  They were still angry and fearful children who hadn't
truly found peace within themselves. They acted according to their base
instincts and ignored the so-called teachings of ECK which were vapid and
useless to begin with. They were "drunk" with power prestige and self-righteous.
Strength in numbers as they say. I finally got to meet an Eckist one-on-one
(David Barnes). He was a member of a.r.e. and was one of those vindictive people
who wanted to bury me. When I finally got to talk with him one day, he was just
a regular guy with the same problems as any normal person. There was nothing
special about him and he even admittedly questioned his own faith in a path he
could not quite understand. I felt sorry for him in a way. Anyway, this is
getting long winded and possibly repetitive so I just wanted to put out there
that we are in charge of our own life and choices. It may be a hard pill to
swallow but WE were the ones who allowed ouselves to get duped by Eckankar. We
have to recognize OUR role in it and leave them alone. It is in the past and I
hardly ever think about it until I see this forum in my bookmarks. So Ciao and
cheers to everyone!


--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"  wrote:
>

>
> Anyway - hey Alf, you're right, I *am* a grumpy grandma!!  I'm grumpy whenever
I have to do eckstuff.    But, someone's gotta do it.  Others did it before me
and after me, and hopefully will keep doing it long after I'm gone.  And when I
look back and remember, there aren't enough words to thank all those who were
speaking out when I got on the internet, and helped me wake up and get my mind,
heart, and soul back!

Hi Everyone -

First of all, it seems I'm not getting either individual emails or "daily
digests" from ET like I should be, and probably haven't been for months.  I
don't miss them, rarely give ekult or ET a thought except when I get an email
requiring me to approve a new membership or someone's posting privileges.

So, it looks like I'm going to have to start checking here at the website every
so often.

I've got tons of old eckstuff going back to Day One - like Twitch's original
mimeographed discourses.  I have to get my scanner hooked up and start getting
it all on the internet, because that's what I promised people who sent me stuff.

My mother joined the JWs when I was around 9-10.  I believed it all - but just
didn't "get it", and was disgusted with a "god" like that.  Back then,
Armageddon was absolutely definitely going to happen in the mid-80's.  As we
know, it didn't - so I don't know how they all dealt with the change, but it's
like ekult - cult members will beileve any kind of nonsense, even if it reverses
itself from one day to the next.

I was especially disgusted that "god" would kill my innocent children because of
me.  Their "elders" told me to just get baptized, go to the meetings, go door to
door etc., even if I didn't "feel" it.  That just didn't seem honest, you know?

Gotta laugh, the "Paradise" book was pretty graphic, I asked about all the dead
bodies after Armageddon, and wouldn't it stink to high heaven?  They told me
don't worry, the wild animals would eat the dead bodies.

Anyway, I'm 99% sure that the JWs have to pay for all the books & magazines,
then get their money back when they sold them to people.  A few years back I
read that France had or was going to declare them a business and start taxing
them, because evidently there's a lot of money coming in from their
publications.

Oh, some years back I called ekult's 800 number just out of curiousity - and
they told me if was a call center that took calls from many different companies.
A few years later I called it again, and it sounded like they'd switched to a
cheap answering machine at cult headquarters..   I totally forget which shows I
saw the ads on, but they were on in the wee hours, like 2 am, might've been some
kind of alien or Bigfoot-type programs.  They're the kind of shows I turn on to
put me to sleep.  I'm sure advertising at that time and on those shows doesn't
cost much - and they probably do mke a profit from them.

A few years ago I was curious so filled out something on a Scientology website
requesting information, I was quite surprised, I got a few very short emails &
that's it, I think they may have just given me some contact info or something.  
Oh - but back in 1970 I was accosted on the street in Manhattan by a very pushy
guy who wouldn't leave me alone until I bought "Dianetics", which I didn't mind
because I read a lot, and liked big books.  I did a lot of my reading in the
bathtub, generally I'd read books cover-to-cover unless they were really awful,
well this one was *really* bad so I'd only read it in the bathtub, maybe I'd
suffered thru about half of it, and I'll tell ya, I was SO happy when I dropped
it in the tub so I didn't have to read it anymore!  I just remember it was
stupid and boring.

Aaarrgghh - enough of this, I am *so* not interested in ekult anymore that it's
hard work, and makes me feel like I need a nice hot shower, or like I've eaten
something spoiled and need to go upchuck & get it out of my system!

So, gotta take a break, will respond to other posts later.

Oh - anyone here in the US on the east coast where Nemo's going to hit, please
go outside & turn fans on, whatever, and blow the storm my way to central PA!!!!
We'll probably end up with a pitiful 2" or something.  <sigh>

Hugs,

Sharon


--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Pete Chown  wrote:
>
> Hi Sharon,>
> > Oh - there's a whole set on Ebay, let me check....nope, the discourses I
> > saw there recently aren't on sale anymore. I'll watch eckstuff
> > sometimes, no one buys it. Have to laugh, the "newbie freebie" book is
> > always listed for sale ...
>
> LOL, you can also have the Jehovah's Witness freebie book for 99p.
> What's a bit scary is that someone is selling a leather cover for the
> stupid thing.  Do people revere it so much that they want to buy it a
> special leather home?
>
> The Witnesses have a tax dodge where they say that their books are given
> away rather than sold.  They hint that the person who takes the book
> from the Kingdom Hall could make a donation to cover the cost.  I've
> always wondered what would happen if someone went to a Kingdom Hall and
> took armloads of books to sell, without making a donation.  If it turns
> out that this isn't allowed, the tax authorities might be interested.
>
> Funnily enough my 'proper' JW stuff -- the books from the 1920s and
> earlier -- is going up in value.  I've got several editions of the Harp
> of God that I paid about £5 each for.  Now they seem to be selling for
> about £20, so I'm holding on to them in case they go up further!
>
> > I've seen a few TV ads for ekult recently, late at night, I forget on
> > which shows.
>
> I'm surprised that works for a cult like Eckankar, that doesn't have
> many members.  If someone watches the advert and wants to get in touch
> with other Eckankar members, presumably that wouldn't be possible unless
> they live in a big city.  Or is the idea that they just pay money and
> practise Eckankar on their own?
>
> I'd quite like to pay the Scientologists a visit, but I have the same
> problem.  They don't have many members either, so it would be a hundred
> mile trip.  Curiosity isn't worth that much!
>
> Pete
>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgO4KIOtVBM

Here is a link to one from October 1980 (It's on the first page near the
bottom.)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=L7vk9XBBNxgC&dat=19801001&printsec=frontpa\
ge&hl=en

There was another post by DavidP111 that read (in part):

There were several copies of the Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh as the master at
the time that were written in the 1950s. Where are they? Who Knows. Ed Pecean
(sp?) had one I know. Is it true that Orion magazine published TF prior to 1965
with Sudar/Kirpal Singh as the master? I've heard this but never seen a copy.
    When Kirpal came to the USA in the early 70s long time Eckists told me that
was Tarzs. I did go to meet Kirpal and got the darshan from him. In my early Eck
years it was an item of discussion many   times as to the name Kirpal or Sudar
or Rebazar and why the change for the same person.

(I think that was message 8356, but my computer says it can't be retrieved. I'll
have to check what is up with this.)

Also, from a Feb. 2000 post there was this:

"From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family, Mattie and
John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal being the master, not
Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed Peacin (spelling?) had it. This was
also brought up in the court case of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in
Prescott, Az in 1980."

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html

I would like to know if DavidP111 can offer any more detail about this copy of
The Tiger's Fang "brought up in the court case". The reason is that nobody I
know of has seen the older versions, or original manuscript of TTF with Kirpal
Singh's name in it. Even Doug Marman said he hadn't seen TTF manuscript, as if
nobody knew what it said (that was my impression). Of course, I also saw a place
where Doug said he DID see TTF manuscript (I assumed it was a typo and he meant
Dialogues With the Master).

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
>
> Found a newspaper link about the court case.
>
>
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19800924&id=ZpdOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=r0wD\
AAAAIBAJ&pg=1972,4729563
>
> ***
>
> The 2nd part of article is hard to get to. At top, select page 4 and then use
right arrow on your keyboard to scroll from page 4 over to adjacent page and
then down arrow to reach bottom left corner.
>
> For some reason, selecting page five of that link goes to page 8A of the
paper. One has to select page 4 and use keyboard arrows to scroll over to what
is page 7A of the paper.
>
> ***
>
> I wasn't yet able to find the other articles about this ... like the ones
alluded to on p. 7A. If anybody knows where more about this can be found please
post.
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
> >
> > "From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family, Mattie
and John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal being the master,
not Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed Peacin (spelling?) had it. This
was also brought up in the court case of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in
Prescott, Az in 1980."
> >
> > http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
> >
> > DavidP111,
> >
> > Can you elaborate on this? Or, do you know how I can locate the records for
that court case to confirm?
> >
> > Is this saying there was no mention of Rebazar Tarzs in The Tiger's Fang
manuscript and that there is a court case record to prove it?
> >
> > If this is actually the case then it suggests to me that Eckankar Inc. knows
this information as well. I'm wanting to confirm. So I need more substantial
evidence.
> >
> > Btw, I wasn't trying to be overly critical of you about the P.T. books and
tapes still available. Just wanted to illustrate things more accurately.
> >
> > Yes, it is true that a number of Paul's books are no longer in print and
that Harold's are emphasized more. Also that a lot of Paul's own writings have
been edited and revised from the originals. The latter is something I'm
particularly interested in. Especially the Tiger's Fang.
> >
>

The message 8356 did come up when I searched for it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/message/8356

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a link to one from October 1980 (It's on the first page near the
bottom.)
>
>
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=L7vk9XBBNxgC&dat=19801001&printsec=frontpa\
ge&hl=en
>
> There was another post by DavidP111 that read (in part):
>
> There were several copies of the Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh as the master
at the time that were written in the 1950s. Where are they? Who Knows. Ed Pecean
(sp?) had one I know. Is it true that Orion magazine published TF prior to 1965
with Sudar/Kirpal Singh as the master? I've heard this but never seen a copy.
>    When Kirpal came to the USA in the early 70s long time Eckists told me that
was Tarzs. I did go to meet Kirpal and got the darshan from him. In my early Eck
years it was an item of discussion many   times as to the name Kirpal or Sudar
or Rebazar and why the change for the same person.
>
> (I think that was message 8356, but my computer says it can't be retrieved.
I'll have to check what is up with this.)
>
> Also, from a Feb. 2000 post there was this:
>
> "From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family, Mattie and
John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal being the master, not
Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed Peacin (spelling?) had it. This was
also brought up in the court case of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in
Prescott, Az in 1980."
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
>
> I would like to know if DavidP111 can offer any more detail about this copy of
The Tiger's Fang "brought up in the court case". The reason is that nobody I
know of has seen the older versions, or original manuscript of TTF with Kirpal
Singh's name in it. Even Doug Marman said he hadn't seen TTF manuscript, as if
nobody knew what it said (that was my impression). Of course, I also saw a place
where Doug said he DID see TTF manuscript (I assumed it was a typo and he meant
Dialogues With the Master).
>
> --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
> >
> > Found a newspaper link about the court case.
> >
> >
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19800924&id=ZpdOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=r0wD\
AAAAIBAJ&pg=1972,4729563
> >
> > ***
> >
> > The 2nd part of article is hard to get to. At top, select page 4 and then
use right arrow on your keyboard to scroll from page 4 over to adjacent page and
then down arrow to reach bottom left corner.
> >
> > For some reason, selecting page five of that link goes to page 8A of the
paper. One has to select page 4 and use keyboard arrows to scroll over to what
is page 7A of the paper.
> >
> > ***
> >
> > I wasn't yet able to find the other articles about this ... like the ones
alluded to on p. 7A. If anybody knows where more about this can be found please
post.
> >
> > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "From the manuscrips that were obtained from the Twitchell family, Mattie
and John, included a vintage copy of Tiger's Fang with Kirpal being the master,
not Rebazar. Last time I saw that manuscrip Ed Peacin (spelling?) had it. This
was also brought up in the court case of Eckankar vs estate of Helen Frye in
Prescott, Az in 1980."
> > >
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/tuzahu.html
> > >
> > > DavidP111,
> > >
> > > Can you elaborate on this? Or, do you know how I can locate the records
for that court case to confirm?
> > >
> > > Is this saying there was no mention of Rebazar Tarzs in The Tiger's Fang
manuscript and that there is a court case record to prove it?
> > >
> > > If this is actually the case then it suggests to me that Eckankar Inc.
knows this information as well. I'm wanting to confirm. So I need more
substantial evidence.
> > >
> > > Btw, I wasn't trying to be overly critical of you about the P.T. books and
tapes still available. Just wanted to illustrate things more accurately.
> > >
> > > Yes, it is true that a number of Paul's books are no longer in print and
that Harold's are emphasized more. Also that a lot of Paul's own writings have
been edited and revised from the originals. The latter is something I'm
particularly interested in. Especially the Tiger's Fang.
> > >
> >
>

--- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgO4KIOtVBM
>

Love it!!!  Wow, I'd like to get whatever he's been smoking!  But my  lungs
can't deal with it anymore, a few times a year I'll run into some, try but can't
deal with it - and one of the very few regrets of my life was that I stopped
smoking herb when I was an eckist.

Except once- I think I was a 3rd, went back to school in my 40's & was standing
in line with hundreds of young kids in registration, well as a mom I'm always
scanning the floor & picking up trash, and OMG there on the floor was a little
rolled-up baggie!  Beautiful golden herb with purple streaks - well, I held it
up and yelled "Did someone drop this?"  I got some horrified & embarrassed
looks, but no response.

The "teachings" were very clear - no drugs.  I didn't know what to do - couldn't
throw it out (wasteful), couldn't sell it or give it away (harming others,
creating karma).  I'd been having a heck of a time sleeping, overwhelmed with
studying & real life & being a mom, etc.  I was exhausted, and herb always
helped me sleep.  I talked to the HI about it - was this a gift from Suggie, a
test from the Mahanta, or a temptation from the Kal?

Well, I ended up taking a year off my membership, I think I even wrote a
"confession" to MN, and I smoked it.  I seriously did need a break from "the
eck" but taking an official break didn't help, "it" was always there, all the
"spiritual" stuff, light & sound & dreams.  Which sort of annoyed me.  I
honestly *did* want a year away from it, but I didn't get it.  But, I did get
some very excellent sleep!

Anyway, I haven't been here at ET since the last time I was here, over a week
ago, to be honest I have almost no interest in it and no room for garbage like
ekult in my life anymore.  When I got here today, I was trying to read
whatever's been posted since my last visit, got lost in some older stuff, since
Yahoo also does the "threaded" thing I get confused, but ran into an old post
from Liz (who I know is also happily busy & eck-free with life, but if you
happen to read this which I doubt, Hi Liz, hope you've got more grandkids now
like I do!) and she'd written:

"The only difference between an extraordinary life and an ordinary one is the
extraordinary pleasures you find in ordinary things."

As an eckist, I truly did think life was extraordinary - it was only after I got
out and got defogged and unecked that I realized OMG, I'd been living in a tiny
little box, seeing everything thru eckbluelenses that were actually opaque! 
When I was getting out, sometimes I'd write that "the eck" was something brown &
yukky that you don't want to step in.  And that's truly how I feel about it,
even just coming here to ET or reading the emails makes me feel dirty &
unpleasant, and I just want to go take a long hot shower!

Anyway, excuse any typos but I'm not good at proofreading, and I'm not quite
used to this little netbook's smaller keyboard, I lose the cursor in the middle
of typing so things end up in the wrong place and I can't find them again, and
sometimes all I've typed just disappears.

And speaking of not being able to find things, Etznab, I was looking for your
poetry not long ago but couldn't find it!   It's fascinating, you're so
organized & "technical" and all that neat stuff, but you can still be creative!

And while I'm here, I'm not going to start another post - Alf, my dear friend,
after reading your last post I spent several hours lost in memories, OMG do we
have one heck of a history, or what?  Yeah, it's been a long time - but hey,
this summer you absolutely must take a short trip to the Poconos when I'm at my
son's, spend the weekend around the bonfire, cooking hot dogs on sticks over the
hot coals (the only way to cook hot dogs!), bring your guitar, and hey, when was
the last time you were on a trampoline?  Hopefully it won't be raining, and
hopefully some of our interesting friends will turn up as they often do - you'll
love it!  And you can practice for your future grandkids with mine, they're
awesome!

Gotta go, and please everyone, THINK SNOW for central PA - just a foot or so
would be great but more would be greater - I miss the stuff!

Hugs,

Sharon

I'd like to thank anyone & everyone who "thought snow" - raised my shade to a
beautiful white fluffy magical winter wonderland instead of the expected yukky
"wintry mix"!!  Enough snow that they've already plowed, I'd say there's about
2" so far!!!

Ho Ho Hugs!!

Sharon