I believe it is safe, by now to assume that the path once known as
Eckankar has finally succumbed to valid criticism. No longer are
detractors posting and repeating the same rock solid evidence that
has finally put an end to one of the biggest religious scams of the
past three decades.
Eckankar was doomed the moment it was conceived. It had a life and
now has finally found its place among the dead religions of the world.
   People like David Lane have slain the dragon. They have overturned
the beast and choked it with logic and reason. It has suffered
greatly over the past years with accounts of deceit, mind-control,
plagiarism, scandal, and moreover lies.
   I for one, find no more energy to even look at this path in a
humorous way. All the jokes have been told. All the reasons for its
existence have been properly disposed of. Everything has been done to
revive and vitalize this poor decrepit religion bt the fundie
braindead Eckheads, but nothing has worked. It died in its sleep
yesterday at 10:55 MDT.


Eckankar Oct. 22, 1970 - April Fool's Day, 2003

Yesterday, April 1, in Chanhassen, Minnesota, Eckankar has died. It's
cause of death was still under investigation.
Eckankar was the son of the late Paul and Gail Twitchell. It is
survived by Harold Klemp, (his secret identity only known as THE
MAHANTA), and a few thousand followers.
In lieu of flowers, Harold Klemp has requested that donations be
mailed in a plain brown paper envelope to his house:

c/o
Harold Klemp
213 Wanker Rd.
Gopal City, MN




















.
0

so did eck die the other day this April fools or it will before April
fools 2003 ? All this truth stuff confuses me. Of course that doesn't
take much.

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "nimmy45440" <chas@e...> wrote:
> so did eck die the other day this April fools or it will before
April
> fools 2003 ? All this truth stuff confuses me. Of course that
doesn't
> take much.

I don't do soul travel....but I'm pretty good at time
travel.....thanks for pointing ou the goof....
After all, I am goofy!!

Yes, Eckankar has already passed on....this year...appropriately on
April Fool's Day.


Alf

Al,

I agree with you that there doesn't seem to be any
energy left in the old/new eckankar, from what many of
us have experienced.

Eckankar is a bore!

There is nothing alive with it....nothing new, nor
inspirational, nor noble.

From all of our experiences, and non-eckists
pain-staking research, eckankar doesn't have a valid
claim to a true, established "teaching", "religion",
or whatever they wish to call it...with a "living eck
master" at the lead....

It does seem dead to me, as well.

All I wish to do is occasionally "speak up" at a.r.e.
so that any newcomer there can see that "all is not
well in Camelot!"

Colleen

--- al_radzik <al_radzik@...> wrote:
>
>   I believe it is safe, by now to assume that the
> path once known as
> Eckankar has finally succumbed to valid criticism.
> No longer are
> detractors posting and repeating the same rock solid
> evidence that
> has finally put an end to one of the biggest
> religious scams of the
> past three decades.
> Eckankar was doomed the moment it was conceived. It
> had a life and
> now has finally found its place among the dead
> religions of the world.
>   People like David Lane have slain the dragon. They
> have overturned
> the beast and choked it with logic and reason. It
> has suffered
> greatly over the past years with accounts of deceit,
> mind-control,
> plagiarism, scandal, and moreover lies.
>   I for one, find no more energy to even look at
> this path in a
> humorous way. All the jokes have been told. All the
> reasons for its
> existence have been properly disposed of. Everything
> has been done to
> revive and vitalize this poor decrepit religion bt
> the fundie
> braindead Eckheads, but nothing has worked. It died
> in its sleep
> yesterday at 10:55 MDT.
>
>
> Eckankar Oct. 22, 1970 - April Fool's Day, 2003
>
> Yesterday, April 1, in Chanhassen, Minnesota,
> Eckankar has died. It's
> cause of death was still under investigation.
> Eckankar was the son of the late Paul and Gail
> Twitchell. It is
> survived by Harold Klemp, (his secret identity only
> known as THE
> MAHANTA), and a few thousand followers.
> In lieu of flowers, Harold Klemp has requested that
> donations be
> mailed in a plain brown paper envelope to his house:
>
> c/o
> Harold Klemp
> 213 Wanker Rd.
> Gopal City, MN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> 0
>
>


=====
This electronic mail transmission may contain privileged,
confidential and/or proprietary information intended only for the person(s)
named.  Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure to another person is
strictly prohibited.  If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or
responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or
deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message
and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
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Completely debunked, yet the carcass of
eckankar continues to thrash around.

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "al_radzik" <
al_radzik@y...> wrote:
>
>   I believe it is safe, by now to assume that the path once known as
> Eckankar has finally succumbed to valid criticism. No longer are
> detractors posting and repeating the same rock solid evidence that
> has finally put an end to one of the biggest religious scams of the
> past three decades.

      Yeah, you're right, Al. I don't think very
many serious spiritual seekers
remain with that bunch - just a lot of
airheaded, lazy ego strokers. They like
to just hang out and, like little kids, play the
game of pretending to be far more
"spiritual"  than they really are. Whenever I
check into ARE, most often, I just
delete the whole wagonload of posts -
unread. It's much like flushing a toilet :-)

> Eckankar was doomed the moment it was conceived. It had a life and
> now has finally found its place among the dead religions of the world.

      I think the very early people like Gail and
a few others must have laughed
themselves silly on more than one occasion
that this thing keeps pulling in the bucks.
And, those poor souls who log on to ARE
everyday to fight the good fight for Stugotz
just look too silly for words. Nothing they've
said in 5 years even deserves a reply. It's all
too surreal.


>   People like David Lane have slain the dragon. They have overturned
> the beast and choked it with logic and reason. It has suffered
> greatly over the past years with accounts of deceit, mind-control,
> plagiarism, scandal, and moreover lies.

      Yes, it was slain for the serious seeker.
But have you noticed the caliber of
members
these days? Very gullible, often nasty
tempered, easily led and wanting, oh so
badly, for
it to be true. That they really are hand
selected by Stugotz and chosen to hit the
pearly
gates wearing their $14.99 EK tee shirts and
singing Hooray for Harold! He's our man!

>   I for one, find no more energy to even look at this path in a
> humorous way. All the jokes have been told. All the reasons for its
> existence have been properly disposed of. Everything has been done to
> revive and vitalize this poor decrepit religion bt the fundie
> braindead Eckheads, but nothing has worked. It died in its sleep
> yesterday at 10:55 MDT.
>

      Like you, my interest in it has dwindled
almost to the point of disappearing. Poking
fun at a bunch of unarmed ducks has losts
its allure. They just continue to pop their
heads
up and get shot at - day after insufferable
day, year after year. I think this internet has
created a whole new form of cult addict.

-Charlie-

Greetings,
Not from from my home town, 5 people have left
Eckankar within the past two years. I have not learned
of any newbies. A friend of mine chats about every 6
weeks with a fourth initiate. One person who left,
Barbra, had been in Eckankar for 30+ years and a
member fo the leaf. I myself choose to wear briefs,
Hehehehehe.
Doodah
--- colleen russell <colleenmft@...> wrote:
> Al,
>
> I agree with you that there doesn't seem to be any
> energy left in the old/new eckankar, from what many
> of
> us have experienced.
>
> Eckankar is a bore!
>
> There is nothing alive with it....nothing new, nor
> inspirational, nor noble.
>
> From all of our experiences, and non-eckists
> pain-staking research, eckankar doesn't have a valid
> claim to a true, established "teaching", "religion",
> or whatever they wish to call it...with a "living
> eck
> master" at the lead....
>
> It does seem dead to me, as well.
>
> All I wish to do is occasionally "speak up" at
> a.r.e.
> so that any newcomer there can see that "all is not
> well in Camelot!"
>
> Colleen
>
> --- al_radzik <al_radzik@...> wrote:
> >
> >   I believe it is safe, by now to assume that the
> > path once known as
> > Eckankar has finally succumbed to valid criticism.
> > No longer are
> > detractors posting and repeating the same rock
> solid
> > evidence that
> > has finally put an end to one of the biggest
> > religious scams of the
> > past three decades.
> > Eckankar was doomed the moment it was conceived.
> It
> > had a life and
> > now has finally found its place among the dead
> > religions of the world.
> >   People like David Lane have slain the dragon.
> They
> > have overturned
> > the beast and choked it with logic and reason. It
> > has suffered
> > greatly over the past years with accounts of
> deceit,
> > mind-control,
> > plagiarism, scandal, and moreover lies.
> >   I for one, find no more energy to even look at
> > this path in a
> > humorous way. All the jokes have been told. All
> the
> > reasons for its
> > existence have been properly disposed of.
> Everything
> > has been done to
> > revive and vitalize this poor decrepit religion bt
> > the fundie
> > braindead Eckheads, but nothing has worked. It
> died
> > in its sleep
> > yesterday at 10:55 MDT.
> >
> >
> > Eckankar Oct. 22, 1970 - April Fool's Day, 2003
> >
> > Yesterday, April 1, in Chanhassen, Minnesota,
> > Eckankar has died. It's
> > cause of death was still under investigation.
> > Eckankar was the son of the late Paul and Gail
> > Twitchell. It is
> > survived by Harold Klemp, (his secret identity
> only
> > known as THE
> > MAHANTA), and a few thousand followers.
> > In lieu of flowers, Harold Klemp has requested
> that
> > donations be
> > mailed in a plain brown paper envelope to his
> house:
> >
> > c/o
> > Harold Klemp
> > 213 Wanker Rd.
> > Gopal City, MN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > 0
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> This electronic mail transmission may contain
> privileged,
> confidential and/or proprietary information intended
> only for the person(s) named.  Any use,
> distribution, copying or disclosure to another
> person is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the
> addressee indicated in this message (or responsible
> for delivery of the message to such person), you may
> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such
> case, you should destroy this message and kindly
> notify the sender by reply email.
>
***************************************************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

Hello everyone,

I just joined and would like to share.

Firstly here is an off-list discussion regarding a
certain Dr Stephen Brown who is presently trying
to recruit for Eck on a rather undiscerning Yahoo
spiritual group:

Hello,

If you've followed the prep2003 recently you may
have noticed the individual named Dr. Brown who is
promoting on behalf of Eckankar spiritual
organization and preaching in a tiresome manner.

I wanted to ask if you have any information
regarding the Eckankar and its real alignment. My
personal experience with his posts shows that
although he is very persuasive in what he promotes
by using a proper and complex langauge, the
vibration I experience by his presence is not in
harmony with what he spreads by his beautiful
words.. By doing this in a continous manner he
tries to dominate the overall consiousness pool of
the list.

Do you have any comments or first hand experience
regarding Eckankar?

Regards,
F

This is my reply:

Yes, F, what Dr Brown is about is most transparent
to those of us who can see.

Why don't you challenge him by just being honest?
The Sprep list could do with some true Light and
wise candor!

T recognizes him, as have others on Sprep who have
recently been banned by the owner, David Leisure
for having the courage to speak up.

All I know experientally about Eck is that it
stinks!

I have looked into the eyes of some advanced
members, and it is most evident that they are
occultly possessed people.

The top ranking officials of Eck are sorcerers.

The whole organization is blighted and corrupt at
its core.


The following esoteric information that I sent to
the same Yahoo group in my attempt to
expose Dr Stephen Brown and Eck, got me banned!


I am interested only in the truth and so am also
naturally impelled to dispel illusions in order to
better let that truth in. Loving service points
both to the truth as well as highlights what is
false, and this may often be perceived by those of
the lie as a kind of attack on their person. If we
check the lives of our saints and spiritual
masters we will see that the greatest of them
would often speak of the delusions of mankind in
order to highlight the truth.

There is much imitation spirituality in the world
today and it is leading many astray.

The following is what I have discovered during my
extensive metaphysical research into spiritual
groups, and I would like to present it to the open
minded seekers on this list:

When impure hearts try to practice the tenets of a
certain spiritual philosophy or religion, currents
of thought and emotional energy are produced that
are far removed from the quality of the original
enlightened Teacher(s).

The more people that join a religion or group and
the more organized the religion becomes, the
greater the quantity and power of the collective
energy currents that are produced.

Such energies coalesce and synergize together to
create at first a semi-intelligent 'thought-cloud'
or 'elemental'. Should the religion continue to
attract selfish or even compromised seekers, this
elemental begins to grow and acquire an
ego-consciousness and an agenda and hunger all its
own.

Without going into much further esoteric detail,
perhaps you can understand already how once pure
religions become contaminated and eventually, over
the years, centuries and millennia spawn all kinds
of intelligent forces and powers that drive their
congregation and create an imitation version of
the real thing. Today in the New Age movement such
entities are being produced and empowered all over
the world, and this is the cause of so much
confusion.

We may think of Christianity, Islam and the other
old traditions, which have been responsible for so
many atrocities in the past, all in the name of
God.

The self-perpetuating elemental beings behind
these false spiritual groups work through the
impure consciousness of any and all members
towards designs that are entirely at odds with the
original intention of the religion.

This world and its religions are mostly driven by
these invisible, intelligent monstrosities, first
created by the thoughts and desires of human
beings and maintained and fortified by regular
attendance to church services and the like over
the millennia.

Every single thought and desire of a selfish
(pseudo-spiritual) nature that is created in
connection with the chosen religion or group,
binds the thinker to the group's unique magnetic
sphere and its associated elementals.

This is how false spirituality is born and
perpetuated (fed) by the unaware. It leads
ultimately to collective occult possession
(obsession) and eventually manifests its evil on
the physical plane in the form of, for example,
crusades, burning heretics and inquisitions, etc.,
etc.

Behind the elemental clouds stand masters of evil,
who know all the scriptures by heart and
understand precisely how to continue to swell the
ranks of their false religions by offering rewards
for the personal self and by thus appealing to the
lower nature of mankind, which includes spiritual
egotism.

These dark masters are long practiced at
manipulating the elementals to drive the naive
into all kinds of pseudo religious activities.
They provide much occult knowledge, psychic power
and seek to stimulate the pride, fear and blind
allegiance of their membership.

This is how prominent teachers and priests and
their groups become very convincing to the
unaware, and most of the spiritual groups and
churches in our world today are essentially
motivated and driven by these unholy powers.

Remember that the bigger a group becomes, the more
interest will be taken in it by the forces of
involution and imitation, which seek to expand
their power and influence on the mass of humanity.

If you seek a genuine holy group in these times,
you will be hard pushed to find one amongst the
well-established organizations and groups
advertising themselves in the public arena.

For a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.


Sincerely,

Geoff

Geoff,

I'm a little confused by who said what and where....but the name
Stephen Brown is familiar, and I used to see him in eckankar.

The glazed eyes are there in eckankar members.....they really have
shut down a part of their brain functioning to take on the "as if"
personality which the group consciousness of eckankar promotes.

What is the name, exactly, of the group with Brown in it?  I'd love
to check it out.

Thanks.

Colleen

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "g_rowanus" <g_rowanus@y...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined and would like to share.
>
> Firstly here is an off-list discussion regarding a
> certain Dr Stephen Brown who is presently trying
> to recruit for Eck on a rather undiscerning Yahoo
> spiritual group:
>
> Hello,
>
> If you've followed the prep2003 recently you may
> have noticed the individual named Dr. Brown who is
> promoting on behalf of Eckankar spiritual
> organization and preaching in a tiresome manner.
>
> I wanted to ask if you have any information
> regarding the Eckankar and its real alignment. My
> personal experience with his posts shows that
> although he is very persuasive in what he promotes
> by using a proper and complex langauge, the
> vibration I experience by his presence is not in
> harmony with what he spreads by his beautiful
> words.. By doing this in a continous manner he
> tries to dominate the overall consiousness pool of
> the list.
>
> Do you have any comments or first hand experience
> regarding Eckankar?
>
> Regards,
> F
>
> This is my reply:
>
> Yes, F, what Dr Brown is about is most transparent
> to those of us who can see.
>
> Why don't you challenge him by just being honest?
> The Sprep list could do with some true Light and
> wise candor!
>
> T recognizes him, as have others on Sprep who have
> recently been banned by the owner, David Leisure
> for having the courage to speak up.
>
> All I know experientally about Eck is that it
> stinks!
>
> I have looked into the eyes of some advanced
> members, and it is most evident that they are
> occultly possessed people.
>
> The top ranking officials of Eck are sorcerers.
>
> The whole organization is blighted and corrupt at
> its core.
>
>
> The following esoteric information that I sent to
> the same Yahoo group in my attempt to
> expose Dr Stephen Brown and Eck, got me banned!
>
>
> I am interested only in the truth and so am also
> naturally impelled to dispel illusions in order to
> better let that truth in. Loving service points
> both to the truth as well as highlights what is
> false, and this may often be perceived by those of
> the lie as a kind of attack on their person. If we
> check the lives of our saints and spiritual
> masters we will see that the greatest of them
> would often speak of the delusions of mankind in
> order to highlight the truth.
>
> There is much imitation spirituality in the world
> today and it is leading many astray.
>
> The following is what I have discovered during my
> extensive metaphysical research into spiritual
> groups, and I would like to present it to the open
> minded seekers on this list:
>
> When impure hearts try to practice the tenets of a
> certain spiritual philosophy or religion, currents
> of thought and emotional energy are produced that
> are far removed from the quality of the original
> enlightened Teacher(s).
>
> The more people that join a religion or group and
> the more organized the religion becomes, the
> greater the quantity and power of the collective
> energy currents that are produced.
>
> Such energies coalesce and synergize together to
> create at first a semi-intelligent 'thought-cloud'
> or 'elemental'. Should the religion continue to
> attract selfish or even compromised seekers, this
> elemental begins to grow and acquire an
> ego-consciousness and an agenda and hunger all its
> own.
>
> Without going into much further esoteric detail,
> perhaps you can understand already how once pure
> religions become contaminated and eventually, over
> the years, centuries and millennia spawn all kinds
> of intelligent forces and powers that drive their
> congregation and create an imitation version of
> the real thing. Today in the New Age movement such
> entities are being produced and empowered all over
> the world, and this is the cause of so much
> confusion.
>
> We may think of Christianity, Islam and the other
> old traditions, which have been responsible for so
> many atrocities in the past, all in the name of
> God.
>
> The self-perpetuating elemental beings behind
> these false spiritual groups work through the
> impure consciousness of any and all members
> towards designs that are entirely at odds with the
> original intention of the religion.
>
> This world and its religions are mostly driven by
> these invisible, intelligent monstrosities, first
> created by the thoughts and desires of human
> beings and maintained and fortified by regular
> attendance to church services and the like over
> the millennia.
>
> Every single thought and desire of a selfish
> (pseudo-spiritual) nature that is created in
> connection with the chosen religion or group,
> binds the thinker to the group's unique magnetic
> sphere and its associated elementals.
>
> This is how false spirituality is born and
> perpetuated (fed) by the unaware. It leads
> ultimately to collective occult possession
> (obsession) and eventually manifests its evil on
> the physical plane in the form of, for example,
> crusades, burning heretics and inquisitions, etc.,
> etc.
>
> Behind the elemental clouds stand masters of evil,
> who know all the scriptures by heart and
> understand precisely how to continue to swell the
> ranks of their false religions by offering rewards
> for the personal self and by thus appealing to the
> lower nature of mankind, which includes spiritual
> egotism.
>
> These dark masters are long practiced at
> manipulating the elementals to drive the naive
> into all kinds of pseudo religious activities.
> They provide much occult knowledge, psychic power
> and seek to stimulate the pride, fear and blind
> allegiance of their membership.
>
> This is how prominent teachers and priests and
> their groups become very convincing to the
> unaware, and most of the spiritual groups and
> churches in our world today are essentially
> motivated and driven by these unholy powers.
>
> Remember that the bigger a group becomes, the more
> interest will be taken in it by the forces of
> involution and imitation, which seek to expand
> their power and influence on the mass of humanity.
>
> If you seek a genuine holy group in these times,
> you will be hard pushed to find one amongst the
> well-established organizations and groups
> advertising themselves in the public arena.
>
> For a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Geoff

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> I'm a little confused by who said what and where....but the name
> Stephen Brown is familiar, and I used to see him in eckankar.
>
> The glazed eyes are there in eckankar members.....they really have
> shut down a part of their brain functioning to take on the "as if"
> personality which the group consciousness of eckankar promotes.
>
> What is the name, exactly, of the group with Brown in it?  I'd love
> to check it out.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Colleen

The glazed eyes, that's it exactly. Macabre.

The Yahoo group on which Dr Stephen Brown has been trying to recruit is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003

He has quietened down recently after taking a few slaps.

There was nothing in the pevious post written by Dr Brown, so who said what is
not so important.

G

Thanks, Geoff...

A "must" for a view of the newer version of the "masters" on
bookmarks, bottom, under Vairigi.  Diana Stanley, of course, the
first artist left the org years ago, claiming that she just made the
so-called masters up.

I'm going to see what else Stephen Brown is writing in his "spread
the message of eck/recruitment" on this site.  The bookmark also
contains a link to eckankar.

Very interesting.
Colleen

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "g_rowanus" <g_rowanus@y...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
> > Geoff,
> >
> > I'm a little confused by who said what and where....but the name
> > Stephen Brown is familiar, and I used to see him in eckankar.
> >
> > The glazed eyes are there in eckankar members.....they really
have
> > shut down a part of their brain functioning to take on the "as
if"
> > personality which the group consciousness of eckankar promotes.
> >
> > What is the name, exactly, of the group with Brown in it?  I'd
love
> > to check it out.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Colleen
>
> The glazed eyes, that's it exactly. Macabre.
>
> The Yahoo group on which Dr Stephen Brown has been trying to
recruit is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003
>
> He has quietened down recently after taking a few slaps.
>
> There was nothing in the pevious post written by Dr Brown, so who
said what is not so important.
>
> G

Hi! My name is Andy.
Further down you may want to read my resignation letter. I've been in
this mind contol cult much too long and had a number of sabbaticals.
But like an alcoholic I returned to the bottle again and again. No
more! I AM FREE!

Strangely enough as I finished the letter I saw the post "Eckankar is
dead RIP". I really had to laugh hard (thanks!) and knew I did the
right thing!

The day after I sent the letter off (and dated it 4/4/02). As I left
the post office after mailing it, I felt this strange surge of
energy. I felt so uplifted, and the flow is still with me!

More about me at some other time.

Enjoy the letter! It's the sense of humor of a happy Soul!



REGISTERED

ECKANKAR
P.O. Box 27300
Minneapolis, MN 55427
U.S.A.



..., April 4, 2002



Termination of Membership
Membership No. ...


Dear Sir,

I herewith terminate my membership. Kindly remove any references
pertaining to my membership with you, including all initiations.

I have led a life so far always trying to live up to the highest
ideals of truth, however as your leader indicates I'm prepared to
accept any punishment for "deserting the master" or the "true
religion" as outlined in your teachings, from a thousand lifetimes in
Astral hell to untold hardships and pain.

The Discourse "What Happens to Those Who Leave ECK" of "The ECK
Satsang Discourses, Third Series" mentions  that, "The wrath of the
ECK crashes down upon anybody who is still a slave to the ego and
deserts the Master." Further on it is mentioned that the Lords of
Karma are responsible now for what happens next.

To save you any trouble in this matter, I have informed them
accordingly that this threat is now hanging over me, however, there
is only one problem: they have never heard of such a "Mahanta".

Sincerely in Spirit,

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "g_rowanus" <g_rowanus@y...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just joined and would like to share.
>

Welcome, Geoff!  Your post is *very* interesting!


> Firstly here is an off-list discussion regarding a
> certain Dr Stephen Brown who is presently trying
> to recruit for Eck on a rather undiscerning Yahoo
> spiritual group:
>

Well, members *are* instructed to recruit on the internet.  They're
told to join "spiritual" groups, and look for people who might
possibly be interested.  That's what interested me most about the
internet and led me to finally get a computer some years ago -
because the cult said it was a good thing to do.  I figured it would
be nice to be a "co-worker" at home where I wouldn't have to get
dressed and put on shoes.  <gg>

I recently found a few groups at Delphi Forums where someone
was "recruiting".  One of them, I believe, is "owned" by a cult
member but the subject matter isn't specifically "spiritual".  And
I've run into them elsewhere - at another Yahoo group (one for cult
members) I saw one recruiter mention another group, he said he'd only
gotten one new member out of it, but that was okay.

A few comments on your post - was this posted to the group, or
privately?  I'm not sure...


> Hello,
>
> If you've followed the prep2003 recently you may
> have noticed the individual named Dr. Brown who is
> promoting on behalf of Eckankar spiritual
> organization and preaching in a tiresome manner.
>
> I wanted to ask if you have any information
> regarding the Eckankar and its real alignment. My
> personal experience with his posts shows that
> although he is very persuasive in what he promotes
> by using a proper and complex langauge, the
> vibration I experience by his presence is not in
> harmony with what he spreads by his beautiful
> words.. By doing this in a continous manner he
> tries to dominate the overall consiousness pool of
> the list.
>

I find it interested that you noticed his "vibration".  You know,
this is something I think probably other cult members experience in
different ways when they first get involved - in fact, Twitch wrote
some stuff about it, but said any "problems" were from the inflowing
of the "eck" into the previously negative "kal" person when you
join.  Well...I don't think so.  I think on some level, one
is "rejecting" the garbage, but if you don't know what's *really*
happening you're going to work through it, and stick to the cult.


> Do you have any comments or first hand experience
> regarding Eckankar?
>
> Regards,
> F
>

Okay, now I see!  "F" wrote to you, and following is your response.
You know, I think it's helpful to refer people who are interested to
other websites with information about the cult - I think I've got a
pretty complete & up-to-date list in the "bookmarks" section here.
That way, people can just read the information and come to their own
conclusions.  The url, for those who may be sort of "new" to the
internet, is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth

Sometimes when I pop into various places, I'll just post some
embarrassing awful eckquotes & the url, and just not say anything, or
very much.  Don't have time, you know?



> This is my reply:
>
> Yes, F, what Dr Brown is about is most transparent
> to those of us who can see.
>
> Why don't you challenge him by just being honest?
> The Sprep list could do with some true Light and
> wise candor!
>
> T recognizes him, as have others on Sprep who have
> recently been banned by the owner, David Leisure
> for having the courage to speak up.
>

Good grief, Geoff, I wonder what you were doing to get banned?  <ggg>

You know, a rotten thing is when people are trying to be "spiritual"
and think it means sort of "anything goes" and is "okay" in the Great
Cosmic Sense or something.  An example of this is one particular
former ex-member at alt.religion.eckankar whose got his head stuck so
far with his kissing eckbutt that he won't need to lay out in the sun
in the summertime.  I mean, right is right and wrong is wrong, and
although sometimes there are gray areas, well...saying e-kult
is "okay" is sort of like condoning what the Nazis did, but not as
extreme, you know?

Hey...maybe Eva Braun and his mother loved Adolph Hitler, and his
dogs of course, and maybe he had some good qualities and good
intentions about doing good for German, but...he fucked up, bigtime.

And so did Paul Twitchell, Darwin Gross, and Klemp.


> All I know experientally about Eck is that it
> stinks!
>

What *is* your experience with e-kult?

I prefer "sucks" to "stinks"!  <gg>



> I have looked into the eyes of some advanced
> members, and it is most evident that they are
> occultly possessed people.
>

Hmmmm...well, yeah, there's a lot more to it than this, though.  And
perhaps sometimes, a bit less.

The HI I knew most was a genuinely good & loving soul, who devoted
her whole life to the cult, and ended up being abused and mistreated
by it.  And many other members are genuinely good in their
hearts...so I wouldn't exactly say they were "possessed"(like Linda
Blair in the Exorcist! <g>) but they're definitely having their good
& pure intentions used & misused by a deceptive cult.

Most of them are just like anyone else, and it can be argued that
some people are badly influenced by the sports teams & beliefs
associated with fanhood.  <ggg>

There was one, however, who I remember and still get the creepy
chills about - and when I was a member, I figured there must be
something wrong with me for feeling that way.  But...there was
definite evil there, and spiritual death in their eyes.  Don't know
if it was just that person, or the cult, that did it.



> The top ranking officials of Eck are sorcerers.
>

But they're pretty pitiful ones, Geoff!  I mean...it's hilarious, how
Klemp sells "protection" but has to check out of haunted European
hotels, etc.  <ggg>

I wondered too, why Klemp started out enthusiastic about the internet
but had to get away from it because of its "negativity" and "bad
vibes" and he even said he barely escaped in time!!   But...he
continued to exhort members to get on the internet and recruit.
Well, I just wondered, if it was so bad that the Mahanta, the Living
ECK Master, had to run away....why was he sending members?

Of course, when Klemp ousted Gross, it was a big "battle of the black
magicians" but I'd say compared to "real" black magicians, these guys
are an absolute joke!



> The whole organization is blighted and corrupt at
> its core.
>

I'd say "deluded" fits better than "corrupt".  Except, of course, I
don't know the people at the top.  I think they're genuine "true
believers" but you never know ... for example, perhaps Skelskey is
just shrewd & being the "power behind the throne" for strictly
money.


>
> The following esoteric information that I sent to
> the same Yahoo group in my attempt to
> expose Dr Stephen Brown and Eck, got me banned!
>

Maybe one of these days if I have time I'll pop in & see what
happened!


>
> I am interested only in the truth and so am also
> naturally impelled to dispel illusions in order to
> better let that truth in. Loving service points
> both to the truth as well as highlights what is
> false, and this may often be perceived by those of
> the lie as a kind of attack on their person. If we
> check the lives of our saints and spiritual
> masters we will see that the greatest of them
> would often speak of the delusions of mankind in
> order to highlight the truth.
>

And you know, if you study the words of the true great saints and
spiritual "masters" throughout the ages,  and compare their words and
their lives with that of Twitch, Gross, and Klemp, well...you just
gotta laugh.


> There is much imitation spirituality in the world
> today and it is leading many astray.
>

Imitation spirituality is right!!



> The following is what I have discovered during my
> extensive metaphysical research into spiritual
> groups, and I would like to present it to the open
> minded seekers on this list:
>
> When impure hearts try to practice the tenets of a
> certain spiritual philosophy or religion, currents
> of thought and emotional energy are produced that
> are far removed from the quality of the original
> enlightened Teacher(s).
>

Well...I don't think you're in any way implying that Twitch was in
any way "enlightened".  I find it very sad at times that some people
leave the cult, but sort of blame it on Klemp, and still think Twitch
was okay.  The fact is, Klemp is doing absolutely *nothing* that
Twitch didn't start, and that's quite clear if you look back at
Twitch's original "teachings".

Twitch not only had an "impure" heart, but his mind & body weren't
that great, either!  <gg>


> The more people that join a religion or group and
> the more organized the religion becomes, the
> greater the quantity and power of the collective
> energy currents that are produced.
>

Well, just in the years I was in, it was definitely becoming more &
more "organized".  In spite of Twitch's bleating about how eckankar
wasn't a religion or anything, he's quite open in his original plans
about wanting to be even bigger than Catholicism & the Mormons put
together!!

On a "physical" level, well...the "energy currents" are plain ol'
multi-level-marketing.  The old stuff about it being sort of a
private & personal "spiritual path" appealed to me.  It was a bit odd
the way they kept changing the "official blurb" from things
like "Eckankar: a Way of Life" to "Religion of the Light and Sound".
I thought "Eckankar, the New Age Religion" was sort of tacky.  That
one didn't last too long, actually.  It was hard to keep up with.

They use paid professional advertising & marketing consultants, you
know.

Anyway, what I think happens is basically, the love & good energy of
deluded cult members is sort of "vampirized" by the cult as an
organization, and MN feeds on the members in a sort of vampire way!



> Such energies coalesce and synergize together to
> create at first a semi-intelligent 'thought-cloud'
> or 'elemental'. Should the religion continue to
> attract selfish or even compromised seekers, this
> elemental begins to grow and acquire an
> ego-consciousness and an agenda and hunger all its
> own.

Okay, is this sort of like a mention I saw in a book by Alexandra
David-Neel on Tibetan Buddhism, about how they create entities but
the entities sort of take on a life of their own, and get out of
control?

I think e-kult attracts just as many genuine & sincere
spiritual "seekers" as much as the "other" ones who are in it for the
power & ego post as any other organization.  People are people.



>
> Without going into much further esoteric detail,
> perhaps you can understand already how once pure
> religions become contaminated and eventually, over
> the years, centuries and millennia spawn all kinds
> of intelligent forces and powers that drive their
> congregation and create an imitation version of
> the real thing. Today in the New Age movement such
> entities are being produced and empowered all over
> the world, and this is the cause of so much
> confusion.
>

Well, I think perhaps the entities associated with e-kult - now, I
don't know whether Twitch actually *created* Rebizarre or if perhaps
he *did* have some kind of entity appearing to him, well...I think
Reb *does* exist now, or some entity is using this form to deceive
people.

Let's face it, any non-physical being who "dictates" the published &
copyrighted words of other authors to someone who's supposedly
been "chosen" to be the "Master of the Universe", well...hey, as you
said, the whole thing stinks.

Hey...are you familiar with "eckmaster sightings"?   People claim
that Reb & other "eckmasters" appeared to them years ago, before
Twitch started the cult, or before they'd even heard of it.
Well...my own personal thought on this is that non-physical beings
are off the linear-time-track we're on here on earth, so it's not a
big deal for them to sort of pop into the "past" and
actually "appear" to people in what seems to be *before* Twitch thunk
up the cult, and conjured up Reb & the others.

I don't think non-physical beings are necessarily "spiritual".  I
recently used the examples of <gg> Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne
Gacy.  Both were generally looked on as being "nice guys".  <ggg>
Non-physical beings can be just as phony & deceptive, if not
moreso!!!!



> We may think of Christianity, Islam and the other
> old traditions, which have been responsible for so
> many atrocities in the past, all in the name of
> God.
>

Listen, if we weren't living in "civilized" times, and if e-kult had
its way, us "detractors" would surely be burned at the stake!!  <ggg>



> The self-perpetuating elemental beings behind
> these false spiritual groups work through the
> impure consciousness of any and all members
> towards designs that are entirely at odds with the
> original intention of the religion.
>

Well, the original intention of eckankar was to make money for the
Twitch, and to get him worship & satisfy his own screwed-up
narcissitic needs.    Same thing with Klemp, who had a major
inferiority complex when he was young.

I don't think being Living ECK Master has helped him much, to be
honest.  It's like the Wizard of Oz, you know?   A pitiful little man
behind a curtain....


> This world and its religions are mostly driven by
> these invisible, intelligent monstrosities, first
> created by the thoughts and desires of human
> beings and maintained and fortified by regular
> attendance to church services and the like over
> the millennia.
>

You know, to be honest, I haven't given that much thought to this in
connection with Christianity, for example, because this religion has
honestly done a lot of good things for people & the world as a whole.


> Every single thought and desire of a selfish
> (pseudo-spiritual) nature that is created in
> connection with the chosen religion or group,
> binds the thinker to the group's unique magnetic
> sphere and its associated elementals.
>

I'd say that e-kult's "heirarchy" and silly initiation levels are
good for those who need that kind of thing, the ego-stroking &
feeling important, even though it may not be apparent to themselves
and others, but yeah, I think it's all basically selfish & self-
stroking stuff.

Although there are certainly some nice HIs, well...too many of them
are into power & control & stuff.

> This is how false spirituality is born and
> perpetuated (fed) by the unaware. It leads
> ultimately to collective occult possession
> (obsession) and eventually manifests its evil on
> the physical plane in the form of, for example,
> crusades, burning heretics and inquisitions, etc.,
> etc.
>

An interesting statement, and I'm thinking about the a.r.e. eckthugs,
who bleat "divine unconditional love" for the public, except often at
a.r.e. where they reveal their true dark natures.    Hard to tell how
far they'd go - but I know for sure that if some of their "clergy"
could get away with it, well you know damn well they'd quite happily
put a bullet between my eyes, and that goes for other "detractors"
too!



> Behind the elemental clouds stand masters of evil,
> who know all the scriptures by heart and
> understand precisely how to continue to swell the
> ranks of their false religions by offering rewards
> for the personal self and by thus appealing to the
> lower nature of mankind, which includes spiritual
> egotism.
>

That old "Satan transforming himself into an angel of light" thing!!


> These dark masters are long practiced at
> manipulating the elementals to drive the naive
> into all kinds of pseudo religious activities.
> They provide much occult knowledge, psychic power
> and seek to stimulate the pride, fear and blind
> allegiance of their membership.
>
> This is how prominent teachers and priests and
> their groups become very convincing to the
> unaware, and most of the spiritual groups and
> churches in our world today are essentially
> motivated and driven by these unholy powers.
>
> Remember that the bigger a group becomes, the more
> interest will be taken in it by the forces of
> involution and imitation, which seek to expand
> their power and influence on the mass of humanity.
>

Betcha you're not too fond of Catholicism, are you?  <ggg>

Funny, though, how in spite of the "bad" stuff, these sort of rotten
organizations still serve God's purpose in some way, and people can
still "connect" to Holy Spirit through them.

I think it's sort of nice, actually, that if one genuinely desires to
know & love God, well...association with a less-than-perfect religion
or organization can only go so far, you know?


> If you seek a genuine holy group in these times,
> you will be hard pushed to find one amongst the
> well-established organizations and groups
> advertising themselves in the public arena.
>

My mind's just wandering a bit - you know, I was a secretary for a
small Lutheran parish back when I got out of the cult, and the ELCA
decided to run some TV ads.  Now, I think the ELCA (Evangelical
Lutheran Churches of America) is a *very* nice & honest organization,
and the people at all levels are nice - just average people.
Well...they decided to start running TV ads, and because they thought
some people might object to it, they said, well....yeah, it's sort of
maybe a bit odd, but the Mormons started it...or words to that
effect.  I thought it was a nice thing, actually, just to let people
know where to go to be loved & welcomed.

Advertising in and of itself isn't a "bad" thing.

I don't think *any* group can be really "holy" just of itself.  A
genuinely "holy" organization, I think, couldn't do anything for
someone who was genuinely evil (they *do* exist) just like a corrupt
organization cannot truly do any serious damage to a genuinely good
person.   Not at the heart/soul level, that is.  At least, I don't
think so.


> For a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
>

Thinking of something to say here, and can't.   Flashed to many dog-
chains I've had over the years.   You can buy good strong new links
at the hardware store for "patching".

Anyway, Geoff, thank you for a very interesting post!!   It's been
really dead around here lately, which is okay, actually, since I'm
busy.   But the rest of you....please, carry on without me!!!!!

Hugs,

Sharon

Hi Andy.
I'm new here too.
Great resignation letter!!  Thanks for sharing it!
Shayna-Rochel

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"A small light dispels a great deal of darkness"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5" <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> Hi! My name is Andy.

Hi Andy, and welcome!!  Thanks for posting!


> Further down you may want to read my resignation letter.

I wonder if you'll get the "official" org letter which they ask you
to sign & return, indicating that you *really* want to resign --

Wish I'd made a copy of mine, but I signed it & rushed it right up to
the post office box...I've seen a few sent since then, but they seem
to have toned it down a bit from the one I received, which had a
definite subtly threatening tone to it.


>I've been in
> this mind contol cult much too long and had a number of
sabbaticals.

You know, I had to take a few very short "sabbaticals" when I was
short on $, and wouldn't have *dreamed* of daring to ask for help,
since the cult made it clear that one must pay for what one receives -
  although I used to joke that I paid for it in suffering & service,
which the cult *does* say are alternatives...but back in the early
90's I took a year's "break" for several reasons.  Mostly, I was
*very* tied up with returning to college in my 40's and felt I wasn't
giving 200% to it as I should, also I'd been having a problem
sleeping...okay, this is going to get a big long here, but, I was
having a horrible time sleeping, and one day in the Student Union I
was scanning the floor ( a mom's habit) and by golly, my eyes lit on
a little baggie at my feet.  Being a mom, I naturally picked up the
litter a kid had dropped.  Well, surprise surprise!!  It was a little
bag of pot, which in the past had been *wonderful* for helping me to
sleep!!

As an eckist, well...I knew that drugs were spiritual death.  On the
other hand, damn...it was beautiful.  Beautiful golden red-streaked
seedless buds...

I didn't quite know what to do.  Couldn't throw it out -- heck, I may
have been a very straight eckist, but I don't believe in wasting!
Couldn't give it away or sell it, because that would be harming
someone else.  Just couldn't throw it away.  And...I was really
getting ragged from the insomnia.  I'd been asking the Mahanta for
help to sleep...

Well, this was the problem.  Although "drugs" were certain death, fer
crissakes, it was only POT!!!  A nice gentle herb!!!   Wonderful for
insomnia, nausea, sinuses, etc.   And it occurred to me...was this
little baggie perhaps a gift from Suggie?  From the Mahanta?

After a few days of consideration & taking it "on the inner", I
smoked it.  It broke the insomnia cycle.  It was *excellent* stuff!!

I sent in a request to the Org for some "time off", because having
chosen to smoke the pot, well...that was "bad".  And I needed a break
from all the goddam awareness & spiritual growth, you know?  I had a
lot of studying to do.

Yes, I was totally aware of what Klemp "taught" - that if we took
a "break" (up to five years without loss of initiation credit) we
would simply stagnate spiritually while all the other eckists just
zoomed ahead at incredible speeds...

That was okay with me.

I was sort of annoyed that my "spiritual growth" continued, and I did
NOT get the "break" I wanted".  My connection with God/Spirit (which
the cult had conned me into thinking was its "mahanta") remained just
as strong.  Annoyingly so.  Well...even though I was on "break" I
still hu'd & stuff.  Anyway, absolutely *nothing* changed.  So I
think it was about a year later I sent in my membership again, as I
had always planned to.

You know, I forget if it was right before or right after...nope, you
know...it was *before* this that I'd just gotten my 3rd initiation. I
figured I'd really "failed" but had no problem living with that.  You
know, that's another thing that bugged me when I was in the cult.
I'm not really ambitious.  And they were always "pushing" you, you
know?  Heck, I didn't mind coming back for another incarnation or
two, I'd asked "the master" a few times to lighten up on the karmic
payback (felt He had more faith in me than I did in myself, since I
was never "blessed" with things like working out car-accident karma
in the dream-state, but got the "real" thing <gg>) so I tried to sort
of make "deals" - go easier this time, and I'll come back & suffer
again!!!!!!!!!!  Not a biggie, really!!!!


> But like an alcoholic I returned to the bottle again and again. No
> more! I AM FREE!
>

I never realized it was a drug, and a crutch.

You know, I was always a pretty independent & free spirit type before
I got mixed up in the cult.  I never realized how it was taking me
away from me, and creating this dependency on the cult...

I've been out for about 3.5 years now, Andy, and I'm just starting to
realize a lot of things, like this addiction-like dependency it
created.  But, being aware of it and observing it makes it easier to
deal with.  It sort of pisses me off, though, because it is certainly
NOT something that's was in line with my true nature or anything.

That's how sneaky & subtly the cult works.  You don't even realize
what's happening as you sink deeper & deeper.

And OH!!!!   I still remember the awesome feeling of freedom right
after I left, how my heart & soul danced so freely for the first time
in almost 15 years!!   It's toned down, of course, but not a day goes
buy that I fail to realize & appreciate the beautiful & incredible
freedom & clarity that comes when you get out of it!!


> Strangely enough as I finished the letter I saw the post "Eckankar
is
> dead RIP". I really had to laugh hard (thanks!) and knew I did the
> right thing!
>

<giggle>  Yeah...that ol' "golden-tongued wisdom"!!!

Seriously, Andy, you might have some rough moments break through your
current euphoria.  Don't worry about it - it's natural & normal, and
it'll pass.  You'll be okay.  Feel free to post here, or if you've
gone through the archives, well...write personally to anyone who
particularly "resonates" with you.  That includes me, of course,
except I think I've been bitching openly lately about all the goddam
time I have to spend on the computer.  But feel free to ignore my
bitching and write if you need to.   I may moan and groan, but I'm
glad to help!


> The day after I sent the letter off (and dated it 4/4/02). As I
left
> the post office after mailing it, I felt this strange surge of
> energy. I felt so uplifted, and the flow is still with me!
>

Yes, freedom *is* exhilarating!!

You'll balance out, Andy.  I remember that rush, too...

It's sort of like when you're lighting a fire, and all the newspaper
& kindling catches & you've got these big roaring flames...

But it calms down, and then you've got the beautiful & long-lasting
embers, just perfect for roasting hot dogs!!   Not as flashy,
maybe...sort of like how kids are impressed by big flames & make
those flaming marshmallow torches...

To be honest, I don't really like marshmallows, but every few years
I'll be in the mood for one.  Maybe the kids like those coal-black
burnt things, but I like to toast mine slowly and perfectly...


> More about me at some other time.
>

It'll be fun hearing from you whenever you'd like to share!


> Enjoy the letter! It's the sense of humor of a happy Soul!

Sadly, I think I know how they'll react to it in MN, and not see the
humor.

They're going to think that of course the Lords of Karma don't
know "the mahanta" -- because they're on a much lower plane!

Sort of funny - at my "eckankarsurvivors" website, I've got a
klempquote posted where he says something about the threats - and how
they should be downplayed for the public, although they're in
the "teachings"...

I've posted the twitchstory (from Difficulties of Becoming LEM, I
think) where the "wrath of THE ECK" crashed down on the credit card
company who simply wanted the money he owed them - and how years
later, in the 90's, an HI at worship service arrogantly told the
story about how she "hu'd" because her credit card company had
charged the wrong price, and weren't "fixing" it fast enough to suit
her...

There was no gratitude in Twitch, or in this HI who demonstrated what
twitch was teaching.  Klemp does the same thing - his "ping-
pong"story (somewhere at EckankarSurvivors) shows it, too.  No humbly
asking God for help or anything, no gratitude, just the arrogant
display of power, and that "ha ha I showed you!!" attitude, you
know?

Don't you ever wonder, though, how Jassie (or whoever) in MN deals
with what's expressed in so many resignation letters?  Seems to me
that since they're not able to understand and respond appropriately,
with honesty, well...they only way I'm sure they can deal with it is
by clinging to their cultic beliefs, etc., and getting even more
fanatical-fundie about it.

It's no wonder that the first requirement for getting a job in MN is
always being a good member.  Which is actually against Equal
Employment Opportunity laws!!

Hey...I gota go!   Thanks for posting, Andy!

Big Hugs,

Sharon

CONGRATULATIONS, ANDY!!!

What a great letter that was.....I really laughed... in fact, I read
it outloud and yelled a few "Yays!".  After I read Klemp's quote
about the "wrath", my husband was as disgusted as I.  We are both
thrilled you have emerged from the fog and are energized from being
free of the cult.

Colleen
--- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5" <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> Hi! My name is Andy.
> Further down you may want to read my resignation letter. I've been
in
> this mind contol cult much too long and had a number of
sabbaticals.
> But like an alcoholic I returned to the bottle again and again. No
> more! I AM FREE!
>
> Strangely enough as I finished the letter I saw the post "Eckankar
is
> dead RIP". I really had to laugh hard (thanks!) and knew I did the
> right thing!
>
> The day after I sent the letter off (and dated it 4/4/02). As I
left
> the post office after mailing it, I felt this strange surge of
> energy. I felt so uplifted, and the flow is still with me!
>
> More about me at some other time.
>
> Enjoy the letter! It's the sense of humor of a happy Soul!
>
>
>
> REGISTERED
>
> ECKANKAR
> P.O. Box 27300
> Minneapolis, MN 55427
> U.S.A.
>
>
>
> ..., April 4, 2002
>
>
>
> Termination of Membership
> Membership No. ...
>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> I herewith terminate my membership. Kindly remove any references
> pertaining to my membership with you, including all initiations.
>
> I have led a life so far always trying to live up to the highest
> ideals of truth, however as your leader indicates I'm prepared to
> accept any punishment for "deserting the master" or the "true
> religion" as outlined in your teachings, from a thousand lifetimes
in
> Astral hell to untold hardships and pain.
>
> The Discourse "What Happens to Those Who Leave ECK" of "The ECK
> Satsang Discourses, Third Series" mentions  that, "The wrath of the
> ECK crashes down upon anybody who is still a slave to the ego and
> deserts the Master." Further on it is mentioned that the Lords of
> Karma are responsible now for what happens next.
>
> To save you any trouble in this matter, I have informed them
> accordingly that this threat is now hanging over me, however, there
> is only one problem: they have never heard of such a "Mahanta".
>
> Sincerely in Spirit,

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
> > Such energies coalesce and synergize together to
> > create at first a semi-intelligent 'thought-cloud'
> > or 'elemental'. Should the religion continue to
> > attract selfish or even compromised seekers, this
> > elemental begins to grow and acquire an
> > ego-consciousness and an agenda and hunger all its
> > own.
>
> Okay, is this sort of like a mention I saw in a book by Alexandra
> David-Neel on Tibetan Buddhism, about how they create entities but
> the entities sort of take on a life of their own, and get out of
> control?

Hi Sharon,

Yes, same thing, but the vast majority of selfish-religious people have no idea
what they are creating and feeding.

> Hey...are you familiar with "eckmaster sightings"?   People claim
> that Reb & other "eckmasters" appeared to them years ago, before
> Twitch started the cult, or before they'd even heard of it.
> Well...my own personal thought on this is that non-physical beings
> are off the linear-time-track we're on here on earth, so it's not a
> big deal for them to sort of pop into the "past" and
> actually "appear" to people in what seems to be *before* Twitch thunk
> up the cult, and conjured up Reb & the others.
>
> I don't think non-physical beings are necessarily "spiritual".  I
> recently used the examples of <gg> Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne
> Gacy.  Both were generally looked on as being "nice guys".  <ggg>
> Non-physical beings can be just as phony & deceptive, if not
> moreso!!!!

Yes, see http://www.tfel/global.net.au/ssna.htm for some very well-researched
and contemporarily-pertinent information about how the world of channelling
(mediumship) is taking over the planet. Eck is just a drop in the ocean of
sinister spirituality in these times.

> Betcha you're not too fond of Catholicism, are you?  <ggg>
>
> Funny, though, how in spite of the "bad" stuff, these sort of rotten
> organizations still serve God's purpose in some way, and people can
> still "connect" to Holy Spirit through them.

They may contact the Spirit through their own pure Faith and Devotion, but not
due to organized religion.

"He who seeks the Truth with diligence and detachment will find it and it will
enlighten him." Buddha.

G

Hi Sharon!

Thanks for your reply! I'm going to go through your post again
because I feel it contains some real valuable insights that can help
me to make this transition into a new life easier. Thanks for what
you're doing here!

Since I do not live in the States they might not send me a letter back actually.
If they
do I shall be happy to post the letter they send me, that's for sure.

I have no hard feelings towards the cult. There's so much truth in
it. If only the control mechanisms, the conversion practices, the
initiations (one would be plenty), the hypnotic techniques, and the
constant vanity of being God's "chosen people" could be taken out, it
might be a useful path to the Source. Of course, it would only be
attractive then to humble Souls who are not interested in
some "career" as some "Eck clergy".

But then it's probably too far gone to change all that, right?

I've been preparing myself for this step for a long long time.
But I got the understanding from Soul that there's no rush.
However, in the last few months life really created some "shocks"
that set the severing of the ties into motion.

A close person to me even had a breakdown similar to Harold's,
with the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. Even the disrobing act
in public was part of it. That really rang some bells. But more about
that later.

The biggest thing I still have to work out are the "subliminal
messages" that come up reminding me of the X-Files. I think it was
the episode called "Blood" where a guy gets all these messages
from some "subliminal machine" like on digital boards etc.

Did you or anyone else here also get these "ek" messages or numbers
of the masters on car plates etc. all the time? It's like a
constant hypnotizing stream of messages from your subconscious
mind.

It's funny, but right after posting the resignation letter
this "subliminal machine" sent me messages indiciating that I would
be the next Mahanta! :-), even though I knew now that this was just a
made up term. It did not exist except in Eckankar's fantasy. The
message was real clear.

It reminded me of the movie "The Last Tempation" where Jesus is on the
cross, ready to die, but an angel comes and says, oh no, God loves
you, he doesn't want you to die. You can come down now.

But here it's reversed: instead of saying, "hey, you're not chosen",
they say, "Oh no! You cannot leave! We need you because you are the
Chosen One. We want you to replace Harold!"

I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and every Soul. From the
absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or below another Soul. And
furthermore Soul can always connect directly with the Source. No Soul
shall ever have the right to stand between them or say that It only
has an exclusive right to speak in the name of the source.

And here they want to "tempt" me with some fantasy about becoming
the "Godman"! :-). I really had to chuckle but then I just grew
disgusted.

You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of this, then perhaps it
was really a worthwhile experience!

A big hug to you!

Andy

Hi Colleen!

I was laughing myself when I wrote it. The words just came that way.
You see, I had an English grandmother who always had a great sense of
humor. I'm not English though but some of the sense of humor was
passed on to me.

Now a funny thing happened the day after the letter was sent off:

That morning after around ten I heard a faint flapping of wings
from above the bathroom in the corridor near the apartment entrance.
I had no idea what it was, so I opened the wooden door to the empty
storage space above the bathroom, and what do I see: a young, male
pigeon was sitting there quietly, watching me intently with its tiny
bead-like eyes, nodding its head and blinking.

I was really puzzled how it got there. As far as I knew there was no
way it could have got into that empty space above the bathroom which
serves no particular purpose. I started talking to it. Come out, I
won't hurt you! I opened first the apartment door because that was
the closest escape, but it wouldn't fly out of the storage room. Only
when I went away and opened the balcony door on the other end of the
room it would fly off. However, I wasn't able to shoo it out the
balcony door, so it could fly off immediately into the sky. No, it
flew through the apartment door, into a dark, unlit corridor.

For a moment I thought this is it. It is out the door. Whatever
happens to it is none of my concern. But when I looked through the
peephole in the door after some time, the pigeon was sitting quietly
in the unlit corridor. I knew it could not possibly get out of the
apartment building without some help. So I went out and shooed it
gently away from the apartments corridor to the stairs. I could open
a window there. Shoo! And through it went. It was finally free.

Andy

Hi everyone!

Found this piece on the web by Swami Beyondananada:

http://www.innerself.com/Humor/Guidelines_For_Enlightenment_by_Swami_B
eyondananda.htm

I especially like point number 9 and 10 because I find them so
uplifting, right after leaving the cult:

"9. If you're looking to find the key to the universe, I have some
bad news and some good news. The bad news is — there is no key to
the Universe. The good news is — it has been left unlocked.

"10. Finally, everything I have told you is channeled. That way, if
you don't like it, it's not my fault. And remember, enlightenment is
not a bureaucracy. You don't have to go through channels."

(Copyright of above quote is Inner Self Publications, citation made
under Paragraph 107 "Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair Use" of
U.S. Copyright Law and related laws contained in Title 17 of the
United States Code).

Enjoy!

Andy

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5" <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> Hi Sharon!
>
> Thanks for your reply! I'm going to go through your post again
> because I feel it contains some real valuable insights that can
help
> me to make this transition into a new life easier. Thanks for what
> you're doing here!
>

Well, thank *you* for posting here!  When enough former members do, I
won't have to do *any* work at all!!

Seriously, after you've been "out" awhile you'll understand just how
boring & unimportant the cult is.  Leaving is like getting rid of a
computer virus.  Or a bad toothache.  Like a root canal.  You scrape
out the bad stuff, fill it in with new, and after awhile don't even
remember which teeth have the root canals.



> Since I do not live in the States they might not send me a letter
back actually. If they
> do I shall be happy to post the letter they send me, that's for
sure.
>

Various forms & form letters have been posted from other people, but
I'd like to get them all together in one place, perhaps just
one "file" in the "files" section here.


> I have no hard feelings towards the cult. There's so much truth in
> it. If only the control mechanisms, the conversion practices, the
> initiations (one would be plenty), the hypnotic techniques, and the
> constant vanity of being God's "chosen people" could be taken out,
> it might be a useful path to the Source. Of course, it would only
> be  attractive then to humble Souls who are not interested in
> some "career" as some "Eck clergy".
>

The only reason there's truth in it is because Twitch stole truths
from elsewhere.

If you take out the other garbage, there's nothing left, and no
reason for its existence.


> But then it's probably too far gone to change all that, right?
>

Yep!  It's exactly what the Twitchster wanted it to be.  There's no
way to "fix" it - they'd have to take just about all of the books &
discourses out of print.



> I've been preparing myself for this step for a long long time.
> But I got the understanding from Soul that there's no rush.
> However, in the last few months life really created some "shocks"
> that set the severing of the ties into motion.
>

Personally, I wanted to sever the ties a.s.a.p. - sort of like
wanting to shower in Clorox after falling into a cesspool.


> A close person to me even had a breakdown similar to Harold's,
> with the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. Even the disrobing
act  in public was part of it. That really rang some bells. But more
about  that later.
>

Interesting -- so much for the "master" being responsible
for "balancing" all the chelas, huh?  That was my thought when Klemp
gave that silly excuse of Wife #1 not being able to handle his "power
flows", hence the divorce.  Duh.  Seems to me his family should have
been more important to him - at the time, I didn't really question
it, or his re-marriage.  Just filed it away under "odd stuff one
daresn't question" - but that all came together & made sense when I
found out that Wife #2 was his secretary, and he'd been "boinking"
her while he was still married!

Anyway -- a few months ago a friend was flipping through the "secrud
discourses" while I was busy doing stuff, and he was laughing &
reading some of the nonsense in them, and one was a statement about
how paranoid schizophrenia was often a "stage" in getting enlightened
or something.  <ggg>  This was probably Klemp's trying to rationalize
his own mental illness for those who might not be familiar
with "Child in the Wilderness".  One of these days I *will* find the
darn thing!  I was just busy at the time, or I would have stuck a
post-it on the discourse my friend was reading.

I'm sorry about your friend - hope things turn out all right!

You know, I flashed back to an incident a few years ago, where two
young California eckists committed suicide, leaving a note saying
Klemp had appeared to them & wanted them to join him or something.
Very tragic.  And sure, the cult can cite the klempquote where he
says if he appears to people telling them to drink the poison kool-
aid or something, to ignore it, it's not him, but....how is one to
know?  Seriously?   I mean - c'mon, Klemp's selling his "protection"
but that's sort of like sending someone against the Taliban armed
with a water pistol!!   And...not one of those fancy modern ones with
five-gallon tanks you carry on your back!!   His "protection" is more
like those wimpy little water guns from way back when I was a kid!!

This summer I'm going to get my own water-Uzi.  I'm tired of kids not
letting me play with theirs!!!!!



> The biggest thing I still have to work out are the "subliminal
> messages" that come up reminding me of the X-Files. I think it was
> the episode called "Blood" where a guy gets all these messages
> from some "subliminal machine" like on digital boards etc.
>

Hmmmm...I've only seen maybe half-a-dozen X-Files.  Don't know why I
never got into it, since it's sort of my kind of thing.  One episode
I *am* glad I saw was the Sewer Monster that ended up in a porta-
potty - reminded me of the old outhouse at my grandparents' when I
was a kid.  Hilarious!!  Us kids always *knew* there was a monster
down there waiting to grab us, but it was better to risk being
grabbed than to go into the house to use the bathroom!




> Did you or anyone else here also get these "ek" messages or numbers
> of the masters on car plates etc. all the time? It's like a
> constant hypnotizing stream of messages from your subconscious
> mind.
>

Yeah - but you learn to get rid of them.  Actually, I realized there
was something *wrong* with this looking for "waking dreams"
and "golden-tongued" wisdom even before I left.  That was after I'd
gone to a.r.e. as an eckist, but was still "holding on" - I was
leaving my daughter's home & saw a bald eagle soaring overhead, and
immediate flipped into looking for the "message".  The only thing I
could "get" was it meant I was going to lose more hair!  <ggg>  And I
though, this is f-ing ridiculous!

Okay - your pigeon story.  Sure, we can read all sorts of "spirichul"
stuff into it, but think a little bit.  All over the world, all the
time, birds & other critters somehow find their way indoors.  I've
had all sorts in my home through the years - rodents, of course
(including chipmunks & moles, some drug in by the cats but still
alive), raccoons, strange dogs, squirrels, birds, etc. - so have many
people I know.  Once my neighbor woke up & a flying squirrel jumped
from his curtain-rod to his shoulder!!  And this man's house was
pretty "secure", unlike mine where the doors & windows were always
open!

And where's the "spirichul" meaning in those stories (and videos) of
deer who crash through windows that they show on TV?  Or how about
cows that wander onto the highway?   A friend & I were riding around
spotlighting deer one night, turned a corner, and there was a big ol'
cow standing in the middle of the road!  It happens.  Doesn't mean
anything, actually.

You know, if we want to, we can still just sort of have fun and use
various occurrences in our lives & look at them and find "lessons",
but we need to keep this kind of "magical thinking" in proper
perspective.   Remember, it's not much different than picking the
petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he loves me not..."


> It's funny, but right after posting the resignation letter
> this "subliminal machine" sent me messages indiciating that I would
> be the next Mahanta! :-), even though I knew now that this was just
a
> made up term. It did not exist except in Eckankar's fantasy. The
> message was real clear.
>

I believe the "consciousness" of the cult-entity uses various things
to try to hold on to those who leave - different people get
different "messages".  For example, it's not uncommon to get "psychic
attacks" which may indeed frighten some people into staying, or
continue to bother them even if they don't return.

Best thing to do is recognize these silly things for the
insignificant little "tantrums" of a silly insignificant little cult
and its even sillier "master" and laugh it off.


> It reminded me of the movie "The Last Tempation" where Jesus is on
the
> cross, ready to die, but an angel comes and says, oh no, God loves
> you, he doesn't want you to die. You can come down now.
>

I don't remember the movie or the book (early Alzheimer's) except I
like the idea that Jesus & Mary Magdelene went on to live "happily
ever after" or whatever.

Whatever one believes about Jesus, well...it *is* a shame that people
need such extreme examples of love & standing for one's truth to get
the message to sink in, you know?  So we've got Jesus sacrificing
himself, and people like Gandhi & MLK getting assassinated.



> But here it's reversed: instead of saying, "hey, you're not
chosen",
> they say, "Oh no! You cannot leave! We need you because you are the
> Chosen One. We want you to replace Harold!"
>

Heck, I knew myself well enough when I joined the cult to wonder how
the heck I got "chosen"!!   I'm damned glad I'm female & therefore
never had to deal with the "next LEM" issue.  Just thought Suggie was
scraping the bottom of the barrel for co-workers.

Now - it's NOT that I thought I was a "bad" person or anything.  I
was (and am) basically content with myself, think I'm 99% wonderful,
and anything I'm not comfy with I work on changing/adjusting, and I
enjoy learning & growing, but...I'm not any more "special" than
anyone else.  Geezus, after reading all the hype in the eckbooks, I
was sort of hesitant about going to a bookstudy and being around all
those high holey "chosen" ones!!

I believe a lot more male eckists than we think have this "next LEM"
fantasy.  Not too many talk about it, though.  It's just another
weapon the cult uses against people, to hold on to members.



> I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and every Soul. From the
> absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or below another Soul.


I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult does, which downplays
the importance of our "physical" selves - including the mental,
emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes together to make me.

I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of "soul", either.  "Soul"
can screw up & make bad choices, too.  Like...Hitler.
And...Twitchell!  <ggg>


And
> furthermore Soul can always connect directly with the Source. No
Soul
> shall ever have the right to stand between them or say that It only
> has an exclusive right to speak in the name of the source.
>

I agree totally here!!


> And here they want to "tempt" me with some fantasy about becoming
> the "Godman"! :-). I really had to chuckle but then I just grew
> disgusted.
>

Well, it works with some people!


> You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of this, then perhaps it
> was really a worthwhile experience!
>

It's good to make lemonade out of the experience!   But I feel it is
*wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed" the experience of e-
kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a matter of our not being
informed, being sincere & gullible, and the plain simple fact that in
life, shit happens.


> A big hug to you!
>

Right back atcha!!

((Hugs!))

Sharon

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "g_rowanus" <g_rowanus@y...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
> > Geoff,
> >
> > I'm a little confused by who said what and where....but the name
> > Stephen Brown is familiar, and I used to see him in eckankar.
> >
> > The glazed eyes are there in eckankar members.....they really have
> > shut down a part of their brain functioning to take on the "as if"
> > personality which the group consciousness of eckankar promotes.
> >
> > What is the name, exactly, of the group with Brown in it?  I'd
love
> > to check it out.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Colleen
>
> The glazed eyes, that's it exactly. Macabre.
>
> The Yahoo group on which Dr Stephen Brown has been trying to recruit
is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003
>
> He has quietened down recently after taking a few slaps.
>
> There was nothing in the pevious post written by Dr Brown, so who
said what is not so important.
>
> G


I took a night couse at Middlesex County College in Edison NJ back in
1986. The class was called something like "Interpretation Of Dreams".
It was taught by a glassy-eyed bohemian weirdo named Steve Brown. He
seemed to fancy his affectation for being "otherworldly". It was
transparent. He liked being enigmatic and strangely exotic. He also
liked the girls when they stayed after class and talked with him.
I would venture to say he used this class to and Eckankar to get laid.

He eventually started bringing Eckankar into the picture which was
what the class was a preparation for. I'll bet the administrators
didn't realize he was scamming them to suck in recruits for Harold.
The last day of the class he had books, and pamphlets, and all kinds
of Eckshit to sell.
I remember one girl next to me saw a drawing of Rebazar Tarsz in one
of the books and turned to me and said, "This guy looks like Burt
Reynolds in a bathrobe!"

BTW Colleen, have you run across another weird guy named Jack Cannon?
He was the guy who "turned me on" to Eckankar. He was a tall blond
guy...very quiet and robotic. He stared a lot, like he had taken too
much thorazine.
Just wondering.

Alf

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
>
> You know, if we want to, we can still just sort of have fun and use
> various occurrences in our lives & look at them and find "lessons",
> but we need to keep this kind of "magical thinking" in proper
> perspective.   Remember, it's not much different than picking the
> petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he loves me not..."
>

Hi Sharon!

Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned that little story
because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm sure this
whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the cult will grow
back into simple "common sense". To read something into everything
would just drive you mad. So I need to develop common sense. It will
take some time!


> I believe a lot more male eckists than we think have this "next
> LEM" fantasy.  Not too many talk about it, though.  It's just
> another weapon the cult uses against people, to hold on to members.
>

I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy. The last few years
though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy only came on strong
again now that I have left.


> > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and every Soul. From the
> > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or below another
Soul.
>
> I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult does, which downplays
> the importance of our "physical" selves - including the mental,
> emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes together to make
me.
>
> I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of "soul",
either.  "Soul"
> can screw up & make bad choices, too.  Like...Hitler.
> And...Twitchell!  <ggg>

I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of whatever being created
these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same initial qualities
and possibilities. The choices then were made by us.

Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of Soul being here was
making full use of all its possibilities, whether they're emotional,
mental or physical. The cult sort of even encouraged that, except
using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).

> > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of this, then perhaps
it
> > was really a worthwhile experience!
> >
>
> It's good to make lemonade out of the experience!   But I feel it
is
> *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed" the experience of e-
> kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a matter of our not being
> informed, being sincere & gullible, and the plain simple fact that
in
> life, shit happens.
>

You're right there, Sharon. Guess there's so much "deprogramming"
left to do. The cult would actually want you to feel that you needed
the experience. This is the constant rationalizing process going on.
The cult is very good at this.

Once you feel that you needed the experience, you might feel less
inclined to actually write about it. That's just what they wanted,
right? :-)

Harold by the way is excellent in rationalizing. Unfortunately I do
not have much of the cult stuff left, except two discourses,
some "Mystic World" and the first bible book.

However, in "Mystic World", March 1998, he answers the question why
longtime chelas leave. He simply rationalizes that they
either "melted" away very early, or "dribbled" away, or simply died.
But most of them - you guessed it, right? - have simply forgotten
their experiences in the light and sound.

By the way, how do you see the use of quotes from cult works? I would
like to make use of some of the stuff under the "fair use" principle
as the U.S. Copyright Law paragraph 107 indicates it, meaning mostly
for simple comment. I have seen that you have been flamed sometimes
by cult members for using quotes.

I have so much material that is clearly manipulative and threatening.
Also I do have much stuff that shows the cult's view how to deal with
those who leave. Not only would others be able to see, but it would
also help me, of course.

If you have some guidelines on this, it would really help!

A hug to you!

Andy

In a message dated 4/6/02 1:41:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
royalcourt5@... writes:


> To save you any trouble in this matter, I have informed them
> accordingly that this threat is now hanging over me, however, there
> is only one problem: they have never heard of such a "Mahanta".
>

:^D !! Kudos my friend. This was a paragraph that shall shine in the annals
of Eckankar Truth for all time!

Orez


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alf,
I've met some people on Thorazine, but not Jack
Cannon!
I'm often laughing here in front of this box, thanks
to you....Hope the neighbors don't think I'm on
Thorazine.

You might be interested to check out the latest post
on 2003, Stephen Brown to me.

Colleen
--- al_radzik <al_radzik@...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "g_rowanus"
> <g_rowanus@y...> wrote:
> > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "colleenmft"
> <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
> > > Geoff,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused by who said what and
> where....but the name
> > > Stephen Brown is familiar, and I used to see him
> in eckankar.
> > >
> > > The glazed eyes are there in eckankar
> members.....they really have
> > > shut down a part of their brain functioning to
> take on the "as if"
> > > personality which the group consciousness of
> eckankar promotes.
> > >
> > > What is the name, exactly, of the group with
> Brown in it?  I'd
> love
> > > to check it out.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Colleen
> >
> > The glazed eyes, that's it exactly. Macabre.
> >
> > The Yahoo group on which Dr Stephen Brown has been
> trying to recruit
> is at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpiritualPrep2003
> >
> > He has quietened down recently after taking a few
> slaps.
> >
> > There was nothing in the pevious post written by
> Dr Brown, so who
> said what is not so important.
> >
> > G
>
>
> I took a night couse at Middlesex County College in
> Edison NJ back in
> 1986. The class was called something like
> "Interpretation Of Dreams".
> It was taught by a glassy-eyed bohemian weirdo named
> Steve Brown. He
> seemed to fancy his affectation for being
> "otherworldly". It was
> transparent. He liked being enigmatic and strangely
> exotic. He also
> liked the girls when they stayed after class and
> talked with him.
> I would venture to say he used this class to and
> Eckankar to get laid.
>
> He eventually started bringing Eckankar into the
> picture which was
> what the class was a preparation for. I'll bet the
> administrators
> didn't realize he was scamming them to suck in
> recruits for Harold.
> The last day of the class he had books, and
> pamphlets, and all kinds
> of Eckshit to sell.
> I remember one girl next to me saw a drawing of
> Rebazar Tarsz in one
> of the books and turned to me and said, "This guy
> looks like Burt
> Reynolds in a bathrobe!"
>
> BTW Colleen, have you run across another weird guy
> named Jack Cannon?
> He was the guy who "turned me on" to Eckankar. He
> was a tall blond
> guy...very quiet and robotic. He stared a lot, like
> he had taken too
> much thorazine.
> Just wondering.
>
> Alf
>
>
>
>
>


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Hi Andy...

I'd like to respond to your thoughts about what could be taken out of
eckankar...

If you took all that you suggest out of eckankar, then what would you
have?  No eckankar!  Only the original resources by which Twitchell
attracted us all in the beginning without givine due credit (Yogic
teachings, for example.)

Colleen


--- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5" <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> Hi Sharon!
>
> Thanks for your reply! I'm going to go through your post again
> because I feel it contains some real valuable insights that can
help
> me to make this transition into a new life easier. Thanks for what
> you're doing here!
>
> Since I do not live in the States they might not send me a letter
back actually. If they
> do I shall be happy to post the letter they send me, that's for
sure.
>
> I have no hard feelings towards the cult. There's so much truth in
> it. If only the control mechanisms, the conversion practices, the
> initiations (one would be plenty), the hypnotic techniques, and the
> constant vanity of being God's "chosen people" could be taken out,
it
> might be a useful path to the Source. Of course, it would only be
> attractive then to humble Souls who are not interested in
> some "career" as some "Eck clergy".
>
> But then it's probably too far gone to change all that, right?
>
> I've been preparing myself for this step for a long long time.
> But I got the understanding from Soul that there's no rush.
> However, in the last few months life really created some "shocks"
> that set the severing of the ties into motion.
>
> A close person to me even had a breakdown similar to Harold's,
> with the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. Even the disrobing
act
> in public was part of it. That really rang some bells. But more
about
> that later.
>
> The biggest thing I still have to work out are the "subliminal
> messages" that come up reminding me of the X-Files. I think it was
> the episode called "Blood" where a guy gets all these messages
> from some "subliminal machine" like on digital boards etc.
>
> Did you or anyone else here also get these "ek" messages or numbers
> of the masters on car plates etc. all the time? It's like a
> constant hypnotizing stream of messages from your subconscious
> mind.
>
> It's funny, but right after posting the resignation letter
> this "subliminal machine" sent me messages indiciating that I would
> be the next Mahanta! :-), even though I knew now that this was just
a
> made up term. It did not exist except in Eckankar's fantasy. The
> message was real clear.
>
> It reminded me of the movie "The Last Tempation" where Jesus is on
the
> cross, ready to die, but an angel comes and says, oh no, God loves
> you, he doesn't want you to die. You can come down now.
>
> But here it's reversed: instead of saying, "hey, you're not
chosen",
> they say, "Oh no! You cannot leave! We need you because you are the
> Chosen One. We want you to replace Harold!"
>
> I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and every Soul. From the
> absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or below another Soul.
And
> furthermore Soul can always connect directly with the Source. No
Soul
> shall ever have the right to stand between them or say that It only
> has an exclusive right to speak in the name of the source.
>
> And here they want to "tempt" me with some fantasy about becoming
> the "Godman"! :-). I really had to chuckle but then I just grew
> disgusted.
>
> You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of this, then perhaps it
> was really a worthwhile experience!
>
> A big hug to you!
>
> Andy

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5" <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > You know, if we want to, we can still just sort of have fun and
use
> > various occurrences in our lives & look at them and
find "lessons",
> > but we need to keep this kind of "magical thinking" in proper
> > perspective.   Remember, it's not much different than picking the
> > petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he loves me not..."
> >
>
> Hi Sharon!
>
> Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned that little story
> because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm sure this
> whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the cult will grow
> back into simple "common sense". To read something into everything
> would just drive you mad. So I need to develop common sense. It
> will take some time!


I understand this incident meant a lot to you - it *is* a beautiful
story!  But the same incident could have just as easily had the
opposite meaning for you, had you decided to stay in the cult, and
fallen for the "next LEM" stuff.  You could have taken it to mean the
bird represented "soul" (many of them) locked into the earthly
consciousness, and you as LEM freeing them!  See what I mean?

The truth is, the only *true* meaning of the story is that a bird got
indoors, and you're a nice caring person and you helped it get out
again.  There are other possibilities.  Like this could have happened
to one of those silly brainless bimbo-types who would get hysterical
about the possibility of birdpoop on the furniture, and either call
an exterminator or her husband (who's very busy at work) to handle
the matter for her, from a neighbor's phone of course because the
bird might attack and give her rabies.  (I *do* know women like
that!)  Or, it could have been some ignorant jerk who might get angry
and take great joy in killing the poor bird.


> > I believe a lot more male eckists than we think have this "next
> > LEM" fantasy.  Not too many talk about it, though.  It's just
> > another weapon the cult uses against people, to hold on to
members.
> >
>
> I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy. The last few
years
> though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy only came on strong
> again now that I have left.
>

Sneaky way to control you, isn't it?

Did you read what Klemp wrote about his becoming LEM?  He got it "on
the inner", was disappointed at one WW because he didn't get it,
Darwin announced from stage that several were being tested but didn't
make it, but Klemp got it the following year.  Now...when I read
this, I had a few "nudges" - questions I stomped down.  But that's
me - I have a bad habit of asking dumb questions.  It just didnt'
make sense.   If there were people *other* than Klemp being trained &
tested or whatever, well...why?   Didn't Suggie or the 9 Silent Ones
already "know" who'd be the next one?  Why were they playing games
with these other people?  Then if you think about what Twitch wrote
about Himself and all the lifetimes he'd been in training to be LEM &
all that stuff, well...the whole thing doesn't make sense.


>
> > > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and every Soul. From the
> > > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or below another
> Soul.
> >
> > I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult does, which
downplays
> > the importance of our "physical" selves - including the mental,
> > emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes together to make
> me.
> >
> > I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of "soul",
> either.  "Soul"
> > can screw up & make bad choices, too.  Like...Hitler.
> > And...Twitchell!  <ggg>
>
> I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of whatever being created
> these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same initial qualities
> and possibilities. The choices then were made by us.
>

Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?  There's too much
genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it all to misguided
free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted children, and their
upbringings can't be the sole cause.

And although the story about all souls being little sparks of God,
well...how do we *really* know this?  Although it *is* comforting to
believe, isn't it?


> Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of Soul being here was
> making full use of all its possibilities, whether they're
emotional,
> mental or physical. The cult sort of even encouraged that, except
> using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).
>

Well, we can believe we "know", but can we really?

Can we really be sure we're not just an alien breeding experiment?

And where is it written in stone that we have to believe in
*anything*??   Well...the 10 Commandments, of course... <ggg>


> > > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of this, then
perhaps
> it
> > > was really a worthwhile experience!
> > >
> >
> > It's good to make lemonade out of the experience!   But I feel it
> is
> > *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed" the experience of
e-
> > kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a matter of our not
being
> > informed, being sincere & gullible, and the plain simple fact
that
> in
> > life, shit happens.
> >
>
> You're right there, Sharon. Guess there's so much "deprogramming"
> left to do. The cult would actually want you to feel that you
needed
> the experience. This is the constant rationalizing process going
on.
> The cult is very good at this.
>

Let's take the example of an abused woman, or child.  According to
the cult's teachings, the victims *chose* to be abused, either for
the "learning experience" or it's a matter of karmic payback.  In
other words, the situation was reversed in a past life - so the
victim becomes the abuser, and the abuser becomes the victim.
But...isn't this saying that in the time "between lives",
these "souls" didn't have the opportunity to examine their lives, and
learn and grow from them?

Do Hitler and his henchman have to return to be the victims of the
Jews (and others) they murdered?  And are these previous victims
doomed to become murderers?

It makes *no* sense at all.  I could write a whole bunch of stuff
along this line, but just don't feel like it right now.




> Once you feel that you needed the experience, you might feel less
> inclined to actually write about it. That's just what they wanted,
> right? :-)
>

That's true, too!  <ggg>

And that's why "anger" is such a big no-no, too!  If you look at what
the "teachings" say about those who leave, which are constantly
thrown at former members by the a.r.e. eckies, well -- they are *so*
far off-base that it's really ridiculous!


> Harold by the way is excellent in rationalizing. Unfortunately I do
> not have much of the cult stuff left, except two discourses,
> some "Mystic World" and the first bible book.
>

Shariyat I?  The Shariyats were two of the earliest eckbooks I
studied - and I remember reading the hilarious intro hype and
stifling my feelings that the book was very poorly written.


> However, in "Mystic World", March 1998, he answers the question why
> longtime chelas leave. He simply rationalizes that they
> either "melted" away very early, or "dribbled" away, or simply
died.
> But most of them - you guessed it, right? - have simply forgotten
> their experiences in the light and sound.
>

You know, I think I vaguely remember this one.

I wondered a whole lot about people who left.  I couldn't imagine
it.  How can one forget God?  And all the other "reasons" never made
sense, either.

I mean...consider the "reverse" hype about all "soul" had to go
through to earn the "privilege" of being an eckist in this
incarnation!!  How we had *always* been with "the master" but had
messed up & left in previous lives, etc.  It just didn't make sense.




> By the way, how do you see the use of quotes from cult works?

I see the use of quotes as a neat way to embarrass cult recruiters!
<ggg>

For example, the one where Klemp admits the "threats" are part of
the "teachings" but tells members to downplay them when recruiting.
<ggg>  That's at my "eckankarsurvivors" site somewhere.



>I would
> like to make use of some of the stuff under the "fair use"
principle
> as the U.S. Copyright Law paragraph 107 indicates it, meaning
mostly
> for simple comment.

Go for it!



>I have seen that you have been flamed sometimes
> by cult members for using quotes.
>

Everyone who posts at a.r.e. will get flamed for just about anything
& everything.

One of my particular favorites was where I got bashed for (oh
horrors) not only admitting to having used cloth diapers for my
babies, but still having some around 20+ years later, and using them
for various household chores & fishing!!   <ggg>

Hey...I haven't posted the "maggots" post for awhile!  It's one of my
favorite examples of divine unconditional eckluuuuuuuv!



> I have so much material that is clearly manipulative and
threatening.

You know, I am totally amazed when I look back on the eckbooks with a
clear mind now!  What unbelievable crap, and I fell for it!  <ggg>


> Also I do have much stuff that shows the cult's view how to deal
with
> those who leave. Not only would others be able to see, but it would
> also help me, of course.
>

So...post it!

> If you have some guidelines on this, it would really help!
>

Nope, no guidelines.  Do what you feel like doing!

I'm personally fond of posting "secret" stuff that rebuts the quotes
they like to use to "impress" potential new members.  Like the recent
one I did showing quite clearly that Jackie had a bit of a reading
comprehension problem.  Of course, she refused to discuss how she
came up with what she "believed" the discourse was saying.

And I'll never forget how Joe-Maha went through the books, the
Shariyat I think, in the beginning of December 1998, right after I
left, and posted so many hateful & horrible eckquotes day after day -
and how helpful they were, sort of shocking me more quickly into the
reality of what I'd gotten out of.

Listen, I have sort of *no* room to talk about "magical thinking" and
stuff.  As some may have noticed, I've been "goofing off" a lot
lately.  It's been nice, to be honest.  E-kult and everything
connected with it is old, and boring.  And with so many worse things
going on in the world, I try to stifle my conscience by thinking
geez, so if I'm silent and because of that just one person gets
trapped, well...hey, life is like that.  But this is what a recent
horoscope told me - whoops, just checked, I deleted it.  But...it was
a straight answer to something that's been on my mind lately...which
is, should I "go back"?   Well...more to it than that, and I was
*amazed* at the insight in this particular horoscope about a lot of
things.

So...no, I'm not really being "guided" by the horoscope, although it
echoed some of my own thoughts.  You see, another thing I'll do is
check out horoscopes for *other* signs than mine, and often they'll
be just as relevant!!  So, it's that picking-off-daisy-petals thing.
Actually, picking off daisy petals makes more sense than "believing"
that Wah Z is on the "inner" giving protection & guidance & all than,
when he's not busy checking out of haunted hotels, that is!  <ggg>

The bottom line is, I do what I decide to do, and don't really let
stuff like that really influence me.  It's just interesting, and sort
of fun.

Hey...I gotta run!

Hugs,

Sharon

(This one is *such* a hoot!!!)


From: Galuuk (galuuk@...)
Subject: Re: Sociological Perspectives
Newsgroups: alt.religion.eckankar
View: Complete Thread (29 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/05/13


Sharon writes to David....

    <<<    Thank you, David, for at least having the personal
integrity to
admit the truth.  I was
          beginning to doubt that you had any.   At least you haven't
sunk to lies and character
          assassination.....   >>>>


Okay, I guess since we're calling spades spades.....Sharon you are a
smug
self-absorbed, self-righteous, seething lump of rotting flesh.
You've spouted
more outright lies on this newsgroup than any of us can begin to
count.  And
you've been caught red-handed doing so....but does it stop you...slow
you
down??  No, you just make up more.

  Your lies, groundless accusations, and slanderous personal attacks
only serve
to inflame the latent bigotry in several others as well.  And as sick
and
demented as it may sound, you actually wear that mantle as a badge of
honor.

As I write this I know and understand that you will display that
mantle and its
maggot breeding flesh to the Lord of Karma some day.  All the strife
and
sickness that your thoughtless words have spawned will be made
painfully
evident to you on that fateful day.  And as you sink inevitably into
the mire
of that dark and hideous dungeon you will glimpse for a few seconds
the warm
and blissfull Light of God and know that it will be eons before you
again have
the opportunity for even the humblest of life.  And a few seconds
later even
the memory of that Light will be withdrawn from you.  Only the
excruciating
pain of living without IT will accompany you.

You will blame all those around you for its absence and they will
blame you and
you shall exist there for what you know as eternity.

The dye is cast......



Joey

-------------------

What's hilarious about this one is how they're constantly
yelling "liar" at anything former members say.  Well...I had told the
story of how David Hutt was begging to do my next initiation, finally
wrote an email where he revealed a big "secret" about the
initiations...and other improper stuff.  Don't feel like searching,
but keyword "Ghost" should turn it up - and it's probably
under "sharon2000@..." or possibly further
back, "sharon2000@..." - anyway, isn't it hilarious that
Joey's response to David Hutt *admitting* I was telling the truth
(and incidentally, I told Joey about this *privately* around the time
I left, when he was writing to me hysterically even offering to come
talk to me personally to talk me out of leaving the cult - yes,
although David, HI/Initiator, admitted I *was* telling the truth, how
does the eckist respond?  Denial, and anger, basically!!

Joey's probably a 5th by now.

The fact is, I never lied at the newsgroup.  And quite often, I *was*
able to prove it.  However, eckists there lie with absolutely *no*
conscience at all, all the time!

Gotta go...

Hugs,

Sharon

Sharon wrote:
"Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
There's too much
genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
all to misguided
free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
children, and their
upbringings can't be the sole cause."

I attribute much of the "evil" actions in the world to
the functioning of the brain, especially in the
frontal cortex, the executive functioning unit.  And
anyone who has been clinically depressed knows what a
major change occurs in mood, memory, emotional
reactivity as a result of increasing the seretonin
level in the brain when taking a SSRI antidepressent
medication like Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, etc.

We are physical(including biochemical), mental,
emotional, spiritual beings, IMO.

Colleen
--- brighttigress <brighttigress@...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5"
> <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress"
> <brighttigress@y...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > You know, if we want to, we can still just sort
> of have fun and
> use
> > > various occurrences in our lives & look at them
> and
> find "lessons",
> > > but we need to keep this kind of "magical
> thinking" in proper
> > > perspective.   Remember, it's not much different
> than picking the
> > > petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he
> loves me not..."
> > >
> >
> > Hi Sharon!
> >
> > Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned
> that little story
> > because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm
> sure this
> > whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the
> cult will grow
> > back into simple "common sense". To read something
> into everything
> > would just drive you mad. So I need to develop
> common sense. It
> > will take some time!
>
>
> I understand this incident meant a lot to you - it
> *is* a beautiful
> story!  But the same incident could have just as
> easily had the
> opposite meaning for you, had you decided to stay in
> the cult, and
> fallen for the "next LEM" stuff.  You could have
> taken it to mean the
> bird represented "soul" (many of them) locked into
> the earthly
> consciousness, and you as LEM freeing them!  See
> what I mean?
>
> The truth is, the only *true* meaning of the story
> is that a bird got
> indoors, and you're a nice caring person and you
> helped it get out
> again.  There are other possibilities.  Like this
> could have happened
> to one of those silly brainless bimbo-types who
> would get hysterical
> about the possibility of birdpoop on the furniture,
> and either call
> an exterminator or her husband (who's very busy at
> work) to handle
> the matter for her, from a neighbor's phone of
> course because the
> bird might attack and give her rabies.  (I *do* know
> women like
> that!)  Or, it could have been some ignorant jerk
> who might get angry
> and take great joy in killing the poor bird.
>
>
> > > I believe a lot more male eckists than we think
> have this "next
> > > LEM" fantasy.  Not too many talk about it,
> though.  It's just
> > > another weapon the cult uses against people, to
> hold on to
> members.
> > >
> >
> > I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy.
> The last few
> years
> > though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy
> only came on strong
> > again now that I have left.
> >
>
> Sneaky way to control you, isn't it?
>
> Did you read what Klemp wrote about his becoming
> LEM?  He got it "on
> the inner", was disappointed at one WW because he
> didn't get it,
> Darwin announced from stage that several were being
> tested but didn't
> make it, but Klemp got it the following year.
> Now...when I read
> this, I had a few "nudges" - questions I stomped
> down.  But that's
> me - I have a bad habit of asking dumb questions.
> It just didnt'
> make sense.   If there were people *other* than
> Klemp being trained &
> tested or whatever, well...why?   Didn't Suggie or
> the 9 Silent Ones
> already "know" who'd be the next one?  Why were they
> playing games
> with these other people?  Then if you think about
> what Twitch wrote
> about Himself and all the lifetimes he'd been in
> training to be LEM &
> all that stuff, well...the whole thing doesn't make
> sense.
>
>
> >
> > > > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and
> every Soul. From the
> > > > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or
> below another
> > Soul.
> > >
> > > I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult
> does, which
> downplays
> > > the importance of our "physical" selves -
> including the mental,
> > > emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes
> together to make
> > me.
> > >
> > > I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of
> "soul",
> > either.  "Soul"
> > > can screw up & make bad choices, too.
> Like...Hitler.
> > > And...Twitchell!  <ggg>
> >
> > I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of
> whatever being created
> > these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same
> initial qualities
> > and possibilities. The choices then were made by
> us.
> >
>
> Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
> There's too much
> genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
> all to misguided
> free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
> children, and their
> upbringings can't be the sole cause.
>
> And although the story about all souls being little
> sparks of God,
> well...how do we *really* know this?  Although it
> *is* comforting to
> believe, isn't it?
>
>
> > Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of
> Soul being here was
> > making full use of all its possibilities, whether
> they're
> emotional,
> > mental or physical. The cult sort of even
> encouraged that, except
> > using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).
> >
>
> Well, we can believe we "know", but can we really?
>
> Can we really be sure we're not just an alien
> breeding experiment?
>
> And where is it written in stone that we have to
> believe in
> *anything*??   Well...the 10 Commandments, of
> course... <ggg>
>
>
> > > > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of
> this, then
> perhaps
> > it
> > > > was really a worthwhile experience!
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's good to make lemonade out of the
> experience!   But I feel it
> > is
> > > *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed"
> the experience of
> e-
> > > kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a
> matter of our not
> being
> > > informed, being sincere & gullible, and the
> plain simple fact
> that
> > in
>
=== message truncated ===


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Correction...

I attribute *some* of the "evils' in the world to
biochemical conditions of the brain, as well as brain
dysfunction of varying degrees, and characterological
attributes, such as psychopathic personalities, and
who knows what else.

Colleen
--- brighttigress <brighttigress@...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5"
> <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress"
> <brighttigress@y...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > You know, if we want to, we can still just sort
> of have fun and
> use
> > > various occurrences in our lives & look at them
> and
> find "lessons",
> > > but we need to keep this kind of "magical
> thinking" in proper
> > > perspective.   Remember, it's not much different
> than picking the
> > > petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he
> loves me not..."
> > >
> >
> > Hi Sharon!
> >
> > Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned
> that little story
> > because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm
> sure this
> > whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the
> cult will grow
> > back into simple "common sense". To read something
> into everything
> > would just drive you mad. So I need to develop
> common sense. It
> > will take some time!
>
>
> I understand this incident meant a lot to you - it
> *is* a beautiful
> story!  But the same incident could have just as
> easily had the
> opposite meaning for you, had you decided to stay in
> the cult, and
> fallen for the "next LEM" stuff.  You could have
> taken it to mean the
> bird represented "soul" (many of them) locked into
> the earthly
> consciousness, and you as LEM freeing them!  See
> what I mean?
>
> The truth is, the only *true* meaning of the story
> is that a bird got
> indoors, and you're a nice caring person and you
> helped it get out
> again.  There are other possibilities.  Like this
> could have happened
> to one of those silly brainless bimbo-types who
> would get hysterical
> about the possibility of birdpoop on the furniture,
> and either call
> an exterminator or her husband (who's very busy at
> work) to handle
> the matter for her, from a neighbor's phone of
> course because the
> bird might attack and give her rabies.  (I *do* know
> women like
> that!)  Or, it could have been some ignorant jerk
> who might get angry
> and take great joy in killing the poor bird.
>
>
> > > I believe a lot more male eckists than we think
> have this "next
> > > LEM" fantasy.  Not too many talk about it,
> though.  It's just
> > > another weapon the cult uses against people, to
> hold on to
> members.
> > >
> >
> > I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy.
> The last few
> years
> > though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy
> only came on strong
> > again now that I have left.
> >
>
> Sneaky way to control you, isn't it?
>
> Did you read what Klemp wrote about his becoming
> LEM?  He got it "on
> the inner", was disappointed at one WW because he
> didn't get it,
> Darwin announced from stage that several were being
> tested but didn't
> make it, but Klemp got it the following year.
> Now...when I read
> this, I had a few "nudges" - questions I stomped
> down.  But that's
> me - I have a bad habit of asking dumb questions.
> It just didnt'
> make sense.   If there were people *other* than
> Klemp being trained &
> tested or whatever, well...why?   Didn't Suggie or
> the 9 Silent Ones
> already "know" who'd be the next one?  Why were they
> playing games
> with these other people?  Then if you think about
> what Twitch wrote
> about Himself and all the lifetimes he'd been in
> training to be LEM &
> all that stuff, well...the whole thing doesn't make
> sense.
>
>
> >
> > > > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and
> every Soul. From the
> > > > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or
> below another
> > Soul.
> > >
> > > I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult
> does, which
> downplays
> > > the importance of our "physical" selves -
> including the mental,
> > > emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes
> together to make
> > me.
> > >
> > > I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of
> "soul",
> > either.  "Soul"
> > > can screw up & make bad choices, too.
> Like...Hitler.
> > > And...Twitchell!  <ggg>
> >
> > I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of
> whatever being created
> > these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same
> initial qualities
> > and possibilities. The choices then were made by
> us.
> >
>
> Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
> There's too much
> genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
> all to misguided
> free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
> children, and their
> upbringings can't be the sole cause.
>
> And although the story about all souls being little
> sparks of God,
> well...how do we *really* know this?  Although it
> *is* comforting to
> believe, isn't it?
>
>
> > Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of
> Soul being here was
> > making full use of all its possibilities, whether
> they're
> emotional,
> > mental or physical. The cult sort of even
> encouraged that, except
> > using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).
> >
>
> Well, we can believe we "know", but can we really?
>
> Can we really be sure we're not just an alien
> breeding experiment?
>
> And where is it written in stone that we have to
> believe in
> *anything*??   Well...the 10 Commandments, of
> course... <ggg>
>
>
> > > > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of
> this, then
> perhaps
> > it
> > > > was really a worthwhile experience!
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's good to make lemonade out of the
> experience!   But I feel it
> > is
> > > *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed"
> the experience of
> e-
> > > kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a
> matter of our not
> being
> > > informed, being sincere & gullible, and the
> plain simple fact
> that
> > in
>
=== message truncated ===


=====
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strictly prohibited.  If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or
responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or
deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message
and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
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--- In eckankartruth@y..., colleen russell <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
> Sharon wrote:
> "Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
> There's too much
> genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
> all to misguided
> free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
> children, and their
> upbringings can't be the sole cause."
>
> I attribute much of the "evil" actions in the world to
> the functioning of the brain, especially in the
> frontal cortex, the executive functioning unit.  And
> anyone who has been clinically depressed knows what a
> major change occurs in mood, memory, emotional
> reactivity as a result of increasing the seretonin
> level in the brain when taking a SSRI antidepressent
> medication like Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, etc.
>
> We are physical(including biochemical), mental,
> emotional, spiritual beings, IMO.
>

You're so right, Colleen!  Except - according to the
cult's "teachings" we've chosen any faulty brain wiring for spiritual
growth!   <gg>

And if you're an eckie and end up on any medication, you'll probably
thank "the mahanta" for leading you to your shrink.  Of course, if
you're *not* a cult member and you're seeing a shrink and getting
meds, well...that's different.  Gawd, I just do *not* feel like
typing more & elaborating on this!!

I do NOT accept the stuff about us being here for spiritual
experience, using either e-kult's perspective *or* Christianity's.

Let me give an example here - back in roughly '97, '98, I was
experiencing some health problems - possibly fibromyalgia or one of
those similar "illnesses" that doctors don't *really* quite know that
much about - I happened upon it and it seemed to fit, to explain what
was going on.  Well...I had been a bit freaked to notice that I had
been experiencing all the symptoms of agoraphobia, which was *really*
surprising and not like me at all.  Surprise, surprise - I found this
listed somewhere in symptoms!!  But since I was aware of it, I could
word harder at refusing to let anything control me.  I guess not
everyone's able to do this, though.

And the "spex" work just like drugs/medications.  They *do* alter the
brain chemistry or whatever - and this can be either a good or a bad
thing.  Problem is, whether it's spex or meds, if only the symptoms
and not the underlying causes (if there *are* some in addition to
brain chemistry) then if for some reason the drug isn't working,
well....KABOOM!!!!!  And once again, I don't feel like typing
anymore... <ggg>

Bye!

Hugs,

Sharon




> Colleen
> --- brighttigress <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
> > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5"
> > <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
> > > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress"
> > <brighttigress@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You know, if we want to, we can still just sort
> > of have fun and
> > use
> > > > various occurrences in our lives & look at them
> > and
> > find "lessons",
> > > > but we need to keep this kind of "magical
> > thinking" in proper
> > > > perspective.   Remember, it's not much different
> > than picking the
> > > > petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he
> > loves me not..."
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Sharon!
> > >
> > > Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned
> > that little story
> > > because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm
> > sure this
> > > whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the
> > cult will grow
> > > back into simple "common sense". To read something
> > into everything
> > > would just drive you mad. So I need to develop
> > common sense. It
> > > will take some time!
> >
> >
> > I understand this incident meant a lot to you - it
> > *is* a beautiful
> > story!  But the same incident could have just as
> > easily had the
> > opposite meaning for you, had you decided to stay in
> > the cult, and
> > fallen for the "next LEM" stuff.  You could have
> > taken it to mean the
> > bird represented "soul" (many of them) locked into
> > the earthly
> > consciousness, and you as LEM freeing them!  See
> > what I mean?
> >
> > The truth is, the only *true* meaning of the story
> > is that a bird got
> > indoors, and you're a nice caring person and you
> > helped it get out
> > again.  There are other possibilities.  Like this
> > could have happened
> > to one of those silly brainless bimbo-types who
> > would get hysterical
> > about the possibility of birdpoop on the furniture,
> > and either call
> > an exterminator or her husband (who's very busy at
> > work) to handle
> > the matter for her, from a neighbor's phone of
> > course because the
> > bird might attack and give her rabies.  (I *do* know
> > women like
> > that!)  Or, it could have been some ignorant jerk
> > who might get angry
> > and take great joy in killing the poor bird.
> >
> >
> > > > I believe a lot more male eckists than we think
> > have this "next
> > > > LEM" fantasy.  Not too many talk about it,
> > though.  It's just
> > > > another weapon the cult uses against people, to
> > hold on to
> > members.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy.
> > The last few
> > years
> > > though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy
> > only came on strong
> > > again now that I have left.
> > >
> >
> > Sneaky way to control you, isn't it?
> >
> > Did you read what Klemp wrote about his becoming
> > LEM?  He got it "on
> > the inner", was disappointed at one WW because he
> > didn't get it,
> > Darwin announced from stage that several were being
> > tested but didn't
> > make it, but Klemp got it the following year.
> > Now...when I read
> > this, I had a few "nudges" - questions I stomped
> > down.  But that's
> > me - I have a bad habit of asking dumb questions.
> > It just didnt'
> > make sense.   If there were people *other* than
> > Klemp being trained &
> > tested or whatever, well...why?   Didn't Suggie or
> > the 9 Silent Ones
> > already "know" who'd be the next one?  Why were they
> > playing games
> > with these other people?  Then if you think about
> > what Twitch wrote
> > about Himself and all the lifetimes he'd been in
> > training to be LEM &
> > all that stuff, well...the whole thing doesn't make
> > sense.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and
> > every Soul. From the
> > > > > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or
> > below another
> > > Soul.
> > > >
> > > > I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult
> > does, which
> > downplays
> > > > the importance of our "physical" selves -
> > including the mental,
> > > > emotional, etc.  I'm just me, and all of it goes
> > together to make
> > > me.
> > > >
> > > > I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of
> > "soul",
> > > either.  "Soul"
> > > > can screw up & make bad choices, too.
> > Like...Hitler.
> > > > And...Twitchell!  <ggg>
> > >
> > > I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of
> > whatever being created
> > > these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same
> > initial qualities
> > > and possibilities. The choices then were made by
> > us.
> > >
> >
> > Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
> > There's too much
> > genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
> > all to misguided
> > free will.  I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
> > children, and their
> > upbringings can't be the sole cause.
> >
> > And although the story about all souls being little
> > sparks of God,
> > well...how do we *really* know this?  Although it
> > *is* comforting to
> > believe, isn't it?
> >
> >
> > > Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of
> > Soul being here was
> > > making full use of all its possibilities, whether
> > they're
> > emotional,
> > > mental or physical. The cult sort of even
> > encouraged that, except
> > > using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).
> > >
> >
> > Well, we can believe we "know", but can we really?
> >
> > Can we really be sure we're not just an alien
> > breeding experiment?
> >
> > And where is it written in stone that we have to
> > believe in
> > *anything*??   Well...the 10 Commandments, of
> > course... <ggg>
> >
> >
> > > > > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of
> > this, then
> > perhaps
> > > it
> > > > > was really a worthwhile experience!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's good to make lemonade out of the
> > experience!   But I feel it
> > > is
> > > > *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed"
> > the experience of
> > e-
> > > > kult.  Getting mixed up in it was simply a
> > matter of our not
> > being
> > > > informed, being sincere & gullible, and the
> > plain simple fact
> > that
> > > in
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> =====
> This electronic mail transmission may contain privileged,
> confidential and/or proprietary information intended only for the
person(s) named.  Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure to
another person is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the addressee
indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.
In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the
sender by reply email.
> ***************************************************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/