Looks like som Eckborg took it down before we had a chance to see it.
Must have been one more embarrasment of their ever growing shopping
list of douche chills.

Alf

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
> Check out:
>
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exsatsangisupportgroup/
>
>
> Haven't been there for a *long* time -- flipping through it a bit
> tonight, and I think we can all learn a lot there.
>
> Hugs,
>
> Sharon

It's still there, but sometimes links don't work.  Try going to Yahoo
search or the "clubs" page and typing in exsatsangi, and you should
be able to connect.




--- In eckankartruth@y..., "al_radzik" <al_radzik@y...> wrote:
> Looks like som Eckborg took it down before we had a chance to see
it.
> Must have been one more embarrasment of their ever growing shopping
> list of douche chills.
>
> Alf
>
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...>
wrote:
> > Check out:
> >
> > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exsatsangisupportgroup/
> >
> >
> > Haven't been there for a *long* time -- flipping through it a bit
> > tonight, and I think we can all learn a lot there.
> >
> > Hugs,
> >
> > Sharon

Hi Everyone!

Well, I'm just sitting here at the computer amusing myself, going
through a few hundred piled-up posts at a.r.e. while I do my nails
and watch a movie.

I'm flabberghasted.

The thing is, the eckthugs at a.r.e. give a pretty good picture of
the "Higher Initiates" and "Official Cult Clergy" we find in "real
life".

You can't really compare them to child-molesting Catholic priests
because of the way the cult defines the "higher" initiations.  The
Catholic Church makes it quite clear that priests can be total
scumbags as people, and still perform their sacramental duties as
what you might call "channels" for Holy Spirit.

But...e-kult is different.  There will be a section in my new website
with tons of quotes on the "meaning" of the initiations.  How
they're "earned" and decided upon between "mahanta" and "chela" ...
how each is an indication that one has "mastered" the plane of the
prior initiation.  When you get your second initiation, you're told
you've "mastered" the physical plane...and don't have to return
unless you want to.  At the 3rd, you're told you've "mastered"
the "astral plane".  Etc.  I kept telling myself that evidently
the "mahanta" knew something I didn't, but I would have felt like a
total phony to accept more initiations.

The cult also makes it quite clear that "lowbies" are supposed to
consult HIs, and not trust their "inner voice".  I've posted quotes
about that.  Although of course, Klemp covers his butt at times by
bitching & whining about some of them.  <ggg>  Funny, isn't it, that
although he's supposed to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent
in the "soul" body, as the "mahanta", well...he still promotes and
relies on HIs who may not be all they're supposed to be.

It's all confusing, you know?  None of it makes *any* sense!!

Well...it's only confusing until you recognize that it's all a bunch
of bullshit.

As a cult member, you handle all this nonsense by telling yourself
you're just not "spiritually aware" enough, that your "doubts" are
put there by the "master" for you to overcome & grow spiritually, etc.

What bullshit.

Have a nice weekend, everyone!

Hugs,

Sharon

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> Well, I'm just sitting here at the computer amusing myself, going
> through a few hundred piled-up posts at a.r.e. while I do my nails
> and watch a movie.

Multitasking again.....or bilocating?
>
> I'm flabberghasted.

I used to be flabberghasted.......now I'm amused!

>
> The thing is, the eckthugs at a.r.e. give a pretty good picture of
> the "Higher Initiates" and "Official Cult Clergy" we find in "real
> life".

Don't you mean to say that the eckthugs at a.r.e. are HI's and
Official Eck Clergy? Quite a bellicose lot those posters! To
paraphrase Jack Nicholson in "Prizzi's Honor"...."If they're so
fucking happy, then why are they so fucking angry"? One would think
that the mind control mechanisms and basic tenets of the cult would
lull the whole lot of them into a zombie-like state. Isn't Eckankar a
sort of legalized form of lobotomy? Instead, they carp on the
detractors and try their best to neutralize what is truthfully posted
about Eckankar. Their poor widdle ego gets hurt!!<GG>
>
> You can't really compare them to child-molesting Catholic priests
> because of the way the cult defines the "higher" initiations.  The
> Catholic Church makes it quite clear that priests can be total
> scumbags as people, and still perform their sacramental duties as
> what you might call "channels" for Holy Spirit.

I don't think so. The Church does not condone nor ignore such
behaviour. When they are found out, these priests are stripped of
their collar. A few have gotten away with it, but guess what.....it's
not just priests, it bottom patters like Jerry Mulvin. It's
Scoutleaders, teachers, neighbors.....If you indict one group for
choild molestation, address the whole fucking lot of them, or give me
some hard core statistics.

>
> But...e-kult is different.  There will be a section in my new
website
> with tons of quotes on the "meaning" of the initiations.  How
> they're "earned" and decided upon between "mahanta" and "chela" ...
> how each is an indication that one has "mastered" the plane of the
> prior initiation.  When you get your second initiation, you're told
> you've "mastered" the physical plane...and don't have to return
> unless you want to.  At the 3rd, you're told you've "mastered"
> the "astral plane".  Etc.  I kept telling myself that evidently
> the "mahanta" knew something I didn't, but I would have felt like a
> total phony to accept more initiations.

Oh Bzzzzzz! All this Mahanta, chela, HI bullhockey! You know it. I
know it. Everyone knows it's all a comfy little teeny weeny little
club of misfits. It's Harold's Tiny Empire where he makes up the rules
and pats his patsies on the back for being good Eckborgs for
recruiting new members. The glossy books. The shiny rings. The "MYSTIC
WORLD!!!...The secret word....your "spiritual name"!! That one cracks
me up!!! It's like a Commander Cody Decoder Ring! YOu just get sucked
in because you originallly have no life and they give you something
that resembles one but if you are smart enough, and strong enough, and
you grow up, you find that Eckankar is bullshit. Detractors are NOT
all disgruntled. Most are clear-headed ex-members who show the soft
white underbelly of a stoopid mail order god marketing scheme they
fell for. (DUH! As I smack my forehead)


>
> The cult also makes it quite clear that "lowbies" are supposed to
> consult HIs, and not trust their "inner voice".  I've posted quotes
> about that.

Whoa...hold on thar Quickdraw! What about those people who see Rebazar
Armpit BEFORE they join Eckankar? Oh, I suppose THAT'S OK! THEN you
can trust your inner voice or in this case inner vision. If you see
Paul Twitchell in Burger King sitting there wearing a paper crown and
munching a Cheese Whopper, that's probably a REAL encounter with an
Eck Master right? But if you see Elvis pumping gas in Sedona, it's
just your mind playing games.<G>



  Although of course, Klemp covers his butt at times by
> bitching & whining about some of them.  <ggg>  Funny, isn't it, that
> although he's supposed to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent
> in the "soul" body, as the "mahanta", well...he still promotes and
> relies on HIs who may not be all they're supposed to be.

Last night I saw Harold in my bathroom wearing "smiley face" boxer
shirts and he was shaving his nose hairs with one of those those
circular nasal saws.

>
> It's all confusing, you know?  None of it makes *any* sense!!

I'll tell you what makes sense. Harold's bank statement. I think the
only plane he's conquered is the Pinda Plane. Yep, right here on
Earth. He's duped a few thousand sheeple into buying shares in his lie
factory.


>
> Well...it's only confusing until you recognize that it's all a bunch
> of bullshit.

Get out while you can newbies!!!!
>
> As a cult member, you handle all this nonsense by telling yourself
> you're just not "spiritually aware" enough, that your "doubts" are
> put there by the "master" for you to overcome & grow spiritually,
etc.

Ahhh  love this place!

>
> What bullshit.

Totally!
>
> Have a nice weekend, everyone!

And don't trust your inner voice. Eckist's all live their own little
world....that's ok....everyone knows them there!<GG>

Alf

Grundie grunts:
" In other words, when it comes to religion... it is up to the seeker
to find that path that suits their growth, not grow the path that
suits their opinions.

I write:
This is a very revealing trait of Eckists like Grundie. If I am not
mistaken it is indeed the Eckist who "grows the path that suits their
opinion"! It's simply another example of pot-kettle-black. The Eckists
certainly love to espouse the freedom offered by Eckankar to develop
and nurture a personal way to God using the constructs set forth by
their religion and conveniently justifying their hatred, backbiting,
vengeance, and their opinions in the name of the sugmad .

cher writes:
  I know this is hard to imagine, but religions are there for spiritual
growth. Debate societies are there for the sort of activity you're
looking for.

I write:
This statement, of course, coming from a hardcore, incessant (almost
addicted) debator of her pseudo-path.

cher write:
>Now that being said... again, you seem to believe that all ECKists
agree with everything within Eckankar. I don't know where it was that
you were a member lurk, but I've never been in a group of ECKists that
behave in this manner.

I write:
This of course exemplifies my previous assertion that Eckists "grow"
the path to justify their actions. Either you're IN or you're OUT of
Eckankar. There is no middle ground allowed.

cher writes:
  There is always debate and discussion. There is always free will,
too. You remember that one, free will? How about this one... the law
of non-interference?

I write:
Then why does cher "interfere" with those who do not believe that
Eckankar is truthful? Detractors do not have such a law. Eckists do.
We can interfere all we want...it's her and the others that should
keep their trap shut.

cher writes:
  That the Mahanta will not interfere with the chela's life because it
is their sacred psychic space? That the Master must be invited by the
chela?

I write:
The mahanta interferes in every part of the Eckists life. His role is
to brainwash the believer and sucking the ever loving spiritual life
out of every one of them and forcing them to believe in the
absurdities of Eckankar.

cher writes:
>Again... I have this image that you simply were never a member of
>Eckankar at all, and are simply a usenet troll looking for a home.

I write:
It never occurs to a person like cher that the path she follows is
wrought with lies and deceptions. THAT is why people like Lurk are
there to make sure no on makes the same mistakes.BTW, Lurk was a
member of Eckankar.

cher writes:
It
>surely is evident that you have had no experiences from which to
discuss this subject. That this discourse and belief of yours is
steeped in some other source which has taught you this sort of thing
is true about these paths you discuss.

I write:
A formidable portion of Ex-Eckists had been steeped in the path longer
and deeper than cher. Some have been there right from the beginning,
knowing Paul Twitchell personally. I think they have something very
worthwhile to offer. These are the people that Eckists hate the most.
Eckies put their hands over their ears and silently say "SHUT UP, SHUT
UP..ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!" when people like Raphael, David Lane, Lurk,
Samorez, and Colleen speak the truth.

cher writes:
  So from that point of view this discussion is pointless. In other
words, your desire to preach from your own personal source of
information without referencing the source is only going to hinder
this discussion. Accept that I am not a follower of your viewpoint nor
of the source of this viewpoint... Okay?

I write:
Lurk's viewpoint is crystal clear. So is Lane's and others I have
mentioned. The Eckies DARE not entertain these points of view because
it challenges the very foundation of their belief system. No one wants
to be told they are wrong. In ths case, they are...and it is killing
them. Read their futile efforts to discredit non-Eckists or Ex-Eckists
who know that Eckankar is after all, total bullshit. The only people
who don't know the facts are Eckists.

Alf

--- In eckankartruth@y..., "al_radzik" <al_radzik@y...> wrote:
> --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress" <brighttigress@y...>
wrote:
>
> > The thing is, the eckthugs at a.r.e. give a pretty good picture of
> > the "Higher Initiates" and "Official Cult Clergy" we find
in "real
> > life".
>
> Don't you mean to say that the eckthugs at a.r.e. are HI's and
> Official Eck Clergy?

I guess I didn't complete my thought there.  What I meant was, some
people may look at what goes on there and think that the a.r.e.
online eckthugs are just a small handful of aberrants who just
didn't "get it".  Sort of the way eckists will say that Twitch just
did a teensy bit of plagiarizing <ggg> so it's okay.

Their extreme fundamentalism is more obvious there because of the
circumstances...the presence of former members speaking out, and
interfering with the cultic recruiting they've been so deeply
programmed to do, and the freedom of speech here that they'd like to
stop, but can't, is also waking members up & getting them out.



Quite a bellicose lot those posters! To
> paraphrase Jack Nicholson in "Prizzi's Honor"...."If they're so
> fucking happy, then why are they so fucking angry"? One would think
> that the mind control mechanisms and basic tenets of the cult would
> lull the whole lot of them into a zombie-like state.

Depends on the circumstances.  There's that "Swordsman of the Suggie"
stuff.  Mostly, eckists *are* lulled into seeming very mellow & all
that stuff, it's that cult-mask that Twitch wanted his recruiters to
have, which he knew would work best in attracting new members but not
being offensive the way some other group's members are.  In "real"
life, uncomfortable questions are handled by changing the subject,
directing the cult member to "contemplate" on it or something until
the result brings one's thinking in line with the cult's "teachings",
and other things like that.  Basically, "spiritual success" is shown
when you believe & agree with it all.

They get angry for a lot of reasons, probably.  Which is dumb.  It's
sort of the way fanatic sports fans get.



>Isn't Eckankar a
> sort of legalized form of lobotomy? Instead, they carp on the
> detractors and try their best to neutralize what is truthfully
posted about Eckankar. Their poor widdle ego gets hurt!!<GG>
> >

Yeah, I'd say that for many, the cult works like a lobotomy or
thorazine.


> > You can't really compare them to child-molesting Catholic priests
> > because of the way the cult defines the "higher" initiations.
The
> > Catholic Church makes it quite clear that priests can be total
> > scumbags as people, and still perform their sacramental duties as
> > what you might call "channels" for Holy Spirit.
>
> I don't think so.


I think you missed what I was trying to say.  You see, since they
have a hard time *really* justifying the abuse & power & control &
plagiarism & stuff, what they often do is compare it to other
religions, especially Christianity, and bring up the crusades &
inquisition & plagiarism & stuff.  You know...the old John Wayne Gacy
did it, so Jeffrey Dahmer's justified argument.

Other religions (except for wacky cults) do NOT make ridiculous
claims for their "HIs" and "clergy".


>The Church does not condone nor ignore such
> behaviour. When they are found out, these priests are stripped of
> their collar. A few have gotten away with it,

Uh, Alf...hate to tell you this, but it's sort of more than a few,
and generally the Church would just re-assign offenders to another
parish and hush it up.  But people stopped taking it, started
speaking out and demanding that something be done.  And it's costing
the Church millions, and it's going to be even more as time goes on.


  but guess what.....it's
> not just priests, it bottom patters like Jerry Mulvin. It's
> Scoutleaders, teachers, neighbors.....If you indict one group for
> choild molestation, address the whole fucking lot of them, or give
me some hard core statistics.
>

Good grief!!  I'm not picking on the Church specifically!!  Yes, it's
everywhere -- in fact, a 75-year-old hall monitor was arrested in my
area recently for messing with kids!!

Hey...before I was even sent to Catholic catechism in 3rd grade I'd
already heard plenty in my grandmother's kitchen.  My grandmother
brought ancient wisdom from Poland, passed down through the
generations...never leave your children alone with a man, *any* man,
including their fathers, and especially priests!!  <ggg>

The awful thing is, it seems that with equal rights a lot of woman
don't deserve the title "mother" anymore.  It's disgusting.  On the
news the other night, I was only half paying attention until it was
too late, but my six-year-old niece was watching and there was one
story about a woman who gave birth in a bathtub and drowned the baby,
and the boyfriend/husband tossed the baby in a dumpster.  And another
one...I think a man beat a two-year-old to death.  Men doing it is
bad enough, but women aren't any better anymore.  And kids see this
stuff, and wonder....I had a long talk with my niece.  Told her it's
very sad, but it happens.  Like when I raised rabbits, I had a few
who were *very* bad mothers and would kill their babies as soon as
they were born, except I would be right there to take the newborns
away and give them to a *good* mother, and the bad mothers would end
up as stew.


> >
> > But...e-kult is different.  There will be a section in my new
> website
> > with tons of quotes on the "meaning" of the initiations.  How
> > they're "earned" and decided upon between "mahanta"
and "chela" ...
> > how each is an indication that one has "mastered" the plane of
the
> > prior initiation.  When you get your second initiation, you're
told
> > you've "mastered" the physical plane...and don't have to return
> > unless you want to.  At the 3rd, you're told you've "mastered"
> > the "astral plane".  Etc.  I kept telling myself that evidently
> > the "mahanta" knew something I didn't, but I would have felt like
a
> > total phony to accept more initiations.
>
> Oh Bzzzzzz! All this Mahanta, chela, HI bullhockey! You know it. I
> know it. Everyone knows it's all a comfy little teeny weeny little
> club of misfits. It's Harold's Tiny Empire where he makes up the
rules
> and pats his patsies on the back for being good Eckborgs for
> recruiting new members. The glossy books. The shiny rings.
The "MYSTIC
> WORLD!!!...The secret word....your "spiritual name"!! That one
cracks
> me up!!! It's like a Commander Cody Decoder Ring! YOu just get
sucked
> in because you originallly have no life and they give you something
> that resembles one but if you are smart enough, and strong enough,
and
> you grow up, you find that Eckankar is bullshit. Detractors are NOT
> all disgruntled. Most are clear-headed ex-members who show the soft
> white underbelly of a stoopid mail order god marketing scheme they
> fell for. (DUH! As I smack my forehead)
>

So, Alf, when you joined you didn't have a life?  <ggg>  Okay, so you
weren't in that long, but fer crissakes, stop blaming the victim!!!!

Even Harold is a victim, Alf.  But in his case, yes, it's quite clear
from his biographies that he was sort of "lost" when he got sucked
in, he didn't "get it" in the Lutheran seminary, didn't quite know
what to do with himself, joined the Air Force...I don't know if it
was just for something to do or to avoid the draft, but in the Air
Force he saw one of Twitch's early ads (I think in Fate magazine) for
bi-location, and thought it would be a good way to get home to the
farm he missed so much, without getting into trouble for being AWOL.
He was sort of a wussie, odd, a misfit, no self-confidence or
anything, and yeah...he was ripe for the picking.  The cult gave him
a false identify, put some meaning into his life...

I think the messed-up ones are more likely to stay in for a long
time, become completely absorbed into the eckanborg mentality, rise
in the cult, and that's where we get eckthugs.


> >
> > The cult also makes it quite clear that "lowbies" are supposed to
> > consult HIs, and not trust their "inner voice".  I've posted
quotes about that.
>
> Whoa...hold on thar Quickdraw! What about those people who see
Rebazar
> Armpit BEFORE they join Eckankar? Oh, I suppose THAT'S OK! THEN you
> can trust your inner voice or in this case inner vision. If you see
> Paul Twitchell in Burger King sitting there wearing a paper crown
and
> munching a Cheese Whopper, that's probably a REAL encounter with an
> Eck Master right? But if you see Elvis pumping gas in Sedona, it's
> just your mind playing games.<G>
>
>

Oh, fer crissakes, *everyone* has odd dreams & stuff.  I think it's
just as likely that these "Reb" sightings are due to pesky entities
(which Twitch wrote about) playing tricks on humans.  And yes...if
it's something that will tend to keep you in the cult & make
you "believe" then it's okay.  If it's something that encourages
independence, it's *not* okay.  If it's something that does *not*
make the cult appear "good" then there's something wrong with it.

In my case, duh, I accepted the cult's ecksplanations and tried to
make my own "dream experiences" fit, because I *did* have a very
weird & striking dream ecksperience with Klemp before I'd heard of
him.  It was only after getting out of the cult that I woke up enough
to see the *truth* in this dream, and others -- they were warnings.
Clear warnings that something was wrong, and to stay away.

>
>  Although of course, Klemp covers his butt at times by
> > bitching & whining about some of them.  <ggg>  Funny, isn't it,
that although he's supposed to be omniscient, omnipresent, and
omnipotent
> > in the "soul" body, as the "mahanta", well...he still promotes
and  relies on HIs who may not be all they're supposed to be.
>
> Last night I saw Harold in my bathroom wearing "smiley face" boxer
> shirts and he was shaving his nose hairs with one of those those
> circular nasal saws.
>

I'm sure they weren't "smiley faces".  They were probably EK symbols,
but you were not spiritually aware enough to discern them.  <ggg>


> >
> > It's all confusing, you know?  None of it makes *any* sense!!
>
> I'll tell you what makes sense. Harold's bank statement. I think
the  only plane he's conquered is the Pinda Plane. Yep, right here on
> Earth. He's duped a few thousand sheeple into buying shares in his
lie  factory.
>

Earth is the Pinda Plane?  I could never keep them straight!  <gg>

I don't think Klemp is in it for the money...he's not that type.
He's in it for the personal power & self-esteem boost.

He's been conned -- and yeah, he's continuing it.  Making it worse,
too.

Gotta go!

Bye!

Hugs,

Sharon

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Jackie writes:


People seem concerned over the "looks" of Rebezar Tarz.

Interested, yes. Concerned, no.


  The paintings of him, in my understanding, came from descriptions
that various people, including PT, made of him.  So an artist, who
also may have seen RT, drew his portrait.

So is it safe to assume that Reb looked like his sketch? Paul
Twitchell was very specific about Reb's appearance in his early
writings. Twitch detailed Reb's physicality as a man over 500 years
old (but looks to be in his 30's). He has closely cropped black hair
and beard. He has coal black eyes and wears a maroon robe and carries
a staff. Twitch has this guy down to a tee....right down to his walnut
stained, sandalled feet. No one in Christian literature has EVER
described Jesus' appearance.


  So I now have a question.  How does anyone know what Jesus looks
like?  People believe he was real but there are no
portraits, photos, sketches, etc. except the ones done centuries after
his death.

Exactly. Jesus could have been black for all I know. It was the Euro
artists who gave that long haired, Nordic-Woodstock look to Christ. No
one in the Bible ever describes the physical Jesus. Just keep in mind
that it was Paul Twtichell who made several references to Reb's looks.
After all, Twitch and Reb were both Eck Masters. they met in the Hindu
Kush Mountains; drank yak tea, yakked about the troposphere. Paul
should remember what the guy looked like, right?<GGG>


   The portraits I've seen make Jesus look European but he
didn't come from that region!  Look at the Middle Eastern residents
and see that Jesus would look more look Arabs, Muslims and Jews from
Israel then someone from Russia or France.  There was a documentary on
this on the History channel that made good points.

Yeah yeah, we know. I saw it on TV!

   I haven't seen the photos change because of these theories.  People
even say they have inner experiences with Jesus.  What does he look
like on the inner?

Inner experiences with Jesus are not necessarily visual. In fact, I
don't recall ever hearing anyone dreaming about or having an OBE where
a long haired Christ came by and turned water into wine. Jesus
experiences for me are usually in the least, conversational, but more
importantly, spiritually exhiliarating.

  Like the photos, a vision people can relate to or more realistic
characteristics that people can't relate to?  Does it really matter to
those people anyway?

Nope.Anyway, your original point has been debunked already because
your first Eck Master, Paul Twitchell made the blatant mistake of
describing the physical characteristics of an Eck Master in several
of his books.There is NO room for deviation. So herein lies the
dilemma:

1. Eckists claim to have seen the swarthy Tibetan denizen even before
hearing about Eckankar! WOW, that is heavy!!! It's like the guy is
real and lives in a hut and like, he comes to people and lends a
helping hand...and later when they join Eckankar they get blown away
when they see the black beard and the maroon robe (like that nutcase
from Australia, Michael Wallace)!

2. I had an Eckist friend named Jack Cannon from Somerville New
Jersey. I asked him once if he had ever seen or had dreams or inner
visions of Reb AND if he looks like his pictures. Jack said "Not
necessarily. Sometimes Rebazar Tarzs appears to me as a clean shaven
man in a business suit."


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHA! What's up with this bullshit? What's wrong
with this picture Eckies? Like everything else you whackos say or do,
it's always vague,unprovable and contradictory.

Let's get real folks!


   They see something familiar and recognize Him as who they
"know".  Besides, it's the MESSAGE that the messenger, i.e. Rebezar or
Jesus, brings to the person that's important.

Tell that to your buddies at a.r.e. They like to shoot messengers and
avoid the message.
What a boatload of buffoons!!!

Alf

al_radzik wrote:

>
> The paintings of him, in my understanding, came from descriptions
> that various people, including PT, made of him.  So an artist, who
> also may have seen RT, drew his portrait.

Diana Stanley, who was the official eck-artist for many years, happens
to be my sister.  I think she did a lot toward creating the Reb "look"
back in the 70's.  I do remember that there were some ink sketches in
"Stranger by the River," and Diana used those, as well as Twitchell's
descriptions as a guide.  But, she "fleshed him out," so to speak.  I
think she gave him that Burt Reynolds look.  lol.  The next time I talk
to her, I'll ask her about it.  Now I'm curious.

Stan

Subject: Fw: From the courts
Subject:    These are things people actually said in court, word for
word,   taken       down       and now published by court reporters
who had the torment of   staying     calm       while these exchanges
were actually taking place:
  Q: What is your date of birth?
A: July fifteenth.
Q: What year?
A: Every year.
------------------
Q: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?         A:
Gucci sweats and Reeboks.
--------------
Q: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at
all?         A: Yes.         Q: And in what ways does it affect your
memory?         A: I forget.         Q: You forget. Can you give us
an example of something that  you've
forgotten?
----------
Q: How old is your son, the one living with you?         A: Thirty-
eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.         Q: How long has
he lived with you?         A: Forty-five
years.
-----------------
Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he
woke      that       morning?         A: He said, "Where am I,
Cathy?"         Q: And why did that upset you?         A: My name is
Susan.
---------------
Q: And where was the location of the accident?         A:
Approximately milepost 499.         Q: And where is milepost
499?         A: Probably between milepost 498 and
500.
--------------
Q: Sir, what is your IQ?         A: Well, I can see pretty well, I
think.
--------------
Q: Did you blow your horn or anything?         A: After the
accident?         Q: Before the accident.         A: Sure, I played
for ten years. I even went to school for
it.
--------------
Q: Do you know if your daughter has ever been involved in   voodoo
or   the  occult?         A: We both do.         Q: Voodoo?
A: We do.         Q: You do?         A: Yes,
voodoo.
---------------
Q: Trooper, when you stopped the defendant, were your red and blue
lights flashing?         A: Yes.         Q: Did the defendant say
anything when she got out of her car?         A: Yes, sir.         Q:
What did she say?         A: What disco am I
at?
----------
Q: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep,
he doesn't know about it until the next
morning?
-------------------
Q: The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is
he?
-------------
Q: Were you present when your picture was
taken?
-----------------
Q: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
A: Yes.
Q: And what were you doing at that
time?
---------------------
Q: She had three children, right?         A: Yes.
  Q: How many were boys?         A: None.
Q: Were there any girls?
------------------------------
Q: You say the stairs went down to the basement?
A: Yes.
Q: And these stairs, did they go up
also?
----------------------
Q: How was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it
terminated?
---------------------------

Q: Can you describe the individual?
A: He was about medium height and had a beard.
Q: Was this a male, or a female?
-----------------------------
Q: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition
notice which I sent to your attorney?
  A: No, this is how I dress when I go to
work.
-------------------

  Q: Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead
people?
  A: All my autopsies are performed on dead people.
-----------------
Q: All your responses must be oral, OK?  What school did you  go
to?
  A: Oral.
=================
Q: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
  A: The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.
  Q: And Mr. Dennington was dead at the time?
A: No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an
autopsy.
----------------------
Q: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
-----------------------
Q: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a
pulse?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for blood pressure?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for breathing?
  A: No.
  Q: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when  you
began  the  autopsy?
A: No.
Q: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
A: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
Q: But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?
A: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing
law somewhere.

-----------------------

--- In eckankartruth@y..., Stanley <stanley2914@e...> wrote:
>
>
> al_radzik wrote:
>
> >
> > The paintings of him, in my understanding, came from descriptions
> > that various people, including PT, made of him.  So an artist, who
> > also may have seen RT, drew his portrait.
>
> Diana Stanley, who was the official eck-artist for many years,
happens
> to be my sister.  I think she did a lot toward creating the Reb
"look"
> back in the 70's.  I do remember that there were some ink sketches
in
> "Stranger by the River," and Diana used those, as well as
Twitchell's
> descriptions as a guide.  But, she "fleshed him out," so to speak.
I
> think she gave him that Burt Reynolds look.  lol.  The next time I
talk
> to her, I'll ask her about it.  Now I'm curious.
>
> Stan


That's pretty funny because I attended a "Dream Workshop" once at a
local community college and it wa just a front for the teacher (Steve
Brown) to get people to join Eckankar. The last day, he brought in a
box full of books and pamphlets on Eckankar. A lady next to me opened
up a book she had purchased and said to me "Doesn't this eck master
look like Burt Reynolds?"
So was your sister an Eckist too, or just an artist hired to "flesh
out" the swarthy Tibetan? Did she do Fubbi Quantas and Gopal Gigio
too?<GG>

Alf

al_radzik wrote:

> So was your sister an Eckist too, or just an artist hired to "flesh
> out" the swarthy Tibetan? Did she do Fubbi Quantas and Gopal Gigio
> too?<GG>

She did them all.  I remember one painting called something like "The
Vairagi Masters," or something.  It was supposed to be a representation
of Darwin receiving the rod of power.  Everyone was there, from Reb to
Gopal, Fubbi and Peddar.  It reminded me of a movie poster where all the
stars make a cameo appearance (like Mad, Mad World, or something.)  At
the time, Diana told me that she could see all of these hundreds of eck
masters in the inner.

Yes, she was an eckist through most of the '70s.  I think she left
around '79 or '80.  Now, she will freely admit, "I made it all up."

Stan

--- In eckankartruth@y..., Stanley <stanley2914@e...> wrote:
> al_radzik wrote:
>
> > So was your sister an Eckist too, or just an artist hired
to "flesh
> > out" the swarthy Tibetan? Did she do Fubbi Quantas and Gopal Gigio
> > too?<GG>
>
> She did them all.  I remember one painting called something
like "The
> Vairagi Masters," or something.  It was supposed to be a
representation
> of Darwin receiving the rod of power.  Everyone was there, from Reb
to
> Gopal, Fubbi and Peddar.  It reminded me of a movie poster where
all the
> stars make a cameo appearance (like Mad, Mad World, or something.)
At
> the time, Diana told me that she could see all of these hundreds of
eck
> masters in the inner.
>
> Yes, she was an eckist through most of the '70s.  I think she left
> around '79 or '80.  Now, she will freely admit, "I made it all up."

YES!!! Thank you very much Stan!! One more nail in the coffin for
Eckankar...once again proven to be a bogus religion.
Diane actually admits to making up the Eck Masters while she painted
portraits of them. It's not Diane's fault. It is the Twitchster who
made it very clear as to what Reb looked like, and Diane was just
trying to be good chela and help with Paul's propaganda! Now let's
recap: We know that not only is Rebazar Tarzs NOT a Tibetan name (yet
he is a Tibetan Eck Master!) and Tibetans don't have the physical
characteristics that Paul has given Old Reb....but now we come to
find that Diane, your sister, made the whole thing up and that all
the little pre-Eckies who see Reb, or Gopal, or Pedal Zasqwatch
before they join Eckankar are either lying or it's coincidence. Yep,
as you dig further and further into the claims, theology, history,
and/or tenets of Eckankar, you can always count on finding yourself
up to your neck in bullshit.


Alf
>
> Stan


PS: One of my other fave bitches about Eckankar is the book "Stranger
By The River" where Twitch tries to make it sound like it came
from "Olde English"....Oh I praise thee Oh Sugmad and humbly lie at
the feet of thine servant Sir Rebazar Target. HeeHee.

Check out http://ultra-authority.20m.com/

Hugs,

Sharon

<giggle>  Hey...I just thunk up a new word!!  Sort of like
Rebizarre's "randomity"!!!

Anyway...I'm reposting this here for the public, and also so I can
find it again relatively quickly!!   Thanks, Tom!!

And you know, I *really* doubt if the cult has anywhere *near* 50,000
members!!!


Newgroups:  alt.religion.eckankar
Subject:    Like chop to the geese
Author:     tomleafeater@... (Tom Leafeater)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Yesterday 8:58 PM


Repost

(Some of the contents of this post derive from a previous post of
mine on
a.r.e.. My views are based on experiences as a long time member of
eckankar,
and also from my experiences as an eck initiator)

When I received the sixth initiation, I had essentially already
decided to
leave eckankar. I was still hanging on out of some slight
uncertainty, and also
had decided to maintain my membership due to the fact that my partner
still
remained loyal to eckankar. A year or two had passed while I was in
this state
of serious doubt and skepticism, when the pink slip for the sixth
initiation
came. I was surprised to say the least. Yet I wasn't too surprised.
This
confirmed what I already suspected: Initiations are not overseen or
approved by
a mahanta or some omniscient being, but by a computer, with the
assistance of
initiate reports, and recommendations by the local Resa and other
local high
initiates. I remained in eckankar for years after this, until the day
my mate
felt as I did, and we both resigned.

Lest there are those in eckankar who don't yet know this, lists are
periodically sent out with names generated by a computer to the state
Resa, who
confers with local high initiates/clergy/initiators/esa's to either
recommend
or not, an initiation (Klemp himself wrote of the computers producing
the
initiation lists a while back as I recall). Around the time I left
eckankar,
most eckists were automatically placed on the list every four or five
years or
so. If for some reason an eckist was denied, they would usually show
up again
on the next year's list. Local h.i's in my area (including myself)
would
routinely talk over the names on the list via the telephone, and give
their
recommendations to the RESA according to each chela's loyalty and
degree of
outer service to the org. Those who were especially "troublesome"
could be
denied the initiation. The RESA emphasized loyalty as the most
important trait.

The results from the RESA are sent back to Minneapolis where, most
likely,
assistants appointed by Harold approve or deny the initiation based
on the time
served as a dues paying member, the RESA recommendations, and very
likely,
initiate reports. Some, including myself, have observed that initiate
reports
(especially those which are positive or are written in praise of the
org) play
a role in the initiation approval process.

Despite this, few people were denied an initiation if they were on
the list.
Eckankar has a very liberal policy toward initiations. I noticed that
those who
followed the disciplines well fared no better or worse than those who
didn't. I
noticed people who smoked, drank or never did their exercises stood
just as
great a chance of receiving the fifth initiation as anyone <G>. More
than
anything, the initiations were awarded based on time as a member. The
rate at
which initiations were received could be accelerated or delayed based
on the
chelas relationship with local H.I's and, especially, the state RESA,
who has a
great deal of influence in such matters from my experience. And one
thing is
clear: Those who do not substantially conform to the expectations of
the group
are the ones most likely to be denied an initiation. Despite this,
the H.I.'s
or RESA's in different areas may vary in their tolerance levels,
which accounts
for the stories heard about individuals who never received
initiations in one
local suddenly begin to receive them after moving to another area.
Also, I've
witnessed initiations being approved after three or four H.I's gave
their
unsolicited recommendations to Spiritual Services on behalf of
certain chelas
who were thought of as exceptionally deserving.

I once had a friend who was extremely devoted to eckankar, who had
lived in a
remote area during most of her time as a member, and didn't realize
eckankar's
policy that time served as a dues paying member counted toward
initiation. As a
result, she didn't receive initiations for years do to the fact that
she kept
forgetting to renew her membership, thinking such things to be of the
material
worlds! She had no idea such trivialities mattered to the omniscient
mahanta!
This woman had a life membership (at one time you could pay a large
one time
fee, $2,000, for a membership for life) but was still required to
notify
eckankar of her intent to renew annually, though no additional fee was
required. She didn't think such formalities were all that important,
and as a
result, due to a less than exemplary membership record, received no
initiations
beyond the second, despite years of devotion to eckankar. One often
may hear
eckists parroting that such outer initiations matter little, yet
privately,
most eckists seem to feel very strongly about the initiations they
are awarded.

This isn't spoken of very much out in the open in eckankar, but
people such as
the woman in the example can become quite disillusioned and depressed
over not
keeping up with their peers, feeling left behind, unwanted, and
forgotten by
the Mahanta. They see others who are seemingly less deserving
receiving
initiations, whereas they, despite being very devoted to eckankar and
the
associated disciplines, seem to fall hopelessly behind. Due to
eckankar's
policy that one not ever request initiations, many suffer in silence,
sensing
justifiably that something isn't quite right, yet fear to even ask
about the
possibility of an error. In many cases, even when they do ask, they
face a
stony silence from the org, or are told they are being "tested"
spiritually,
when all that is needed is a quick check of the record. This is one
of the
way's such a system can inflict undue pain upon its members, and is
one reason
I am taking the time to write about this in detail.

Think about the numbers involved in the initiation approval process.
If there
are, as claimed, 50,000 members in the org, and each is considered
for an
initiation every five years or so, then that would average 10,000 per
year, or
833 per month, or about 40 per day (excluding weekends), or about one
initiation to be approved every 10 to 15 minutes in an average eight
hour day.
Klemp would have to work full time on initiations every day for the
rest of his
life to spend 10 to 15 minutes every five years on the "individual"
member. He
is said to check the inner akashic and soul records to make such a
choice.
Remember that this would have to be done to merely *consider* a
person for
initiation, that is, to give each chela the individual attention and
consideration that is due, whether or not the chela is actually
approved for
initiation.

Klemp would have to live out of the body most of his life to
accomplish such a
feat. He would have no time for seminars, writing his constant supply
of books,
writing his speeches, eating, drinking, sleeping, going to meetings,
running
the corporation, etc.

From this I deduce that Klemp has, for the most part, nothing to do
with the
initiations, other than, perhaps, performing a perfunctory blessing
of them in
the eckankar offices to fool the membership. He simply doesn't have
the time.
Remember, it's a fact that someone would have to act on the physical
plane to
approve the initiations and send out pink slips. No matter how you
slice it,
this person (or more likely, persons) is not the living eck master.

Thus, the initiations are entirely bogus. They represent nothing more
than
organizational status. Observe the behavior of the online clergy.
These are not
enlightened beings. They are ordinary people caught up in the throes
of
everyday life, like most people are in the rest of the world.

Food for thought...

-Leafeater

>>>Googies Wrote:

From: Googies Googies_and_Mojo@...
Date: 10/26/01 2:31 PM Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: <3BD9D7E7.2BFF8AF1@...>

I have heard and want to verify if it is true that when someone gets
an
initiation, it is from one of the HI's in the local area that is
asked if
they would recommend that person or from a local RESA which would
recommend
that person based on what HI said.(whether they are ready or not). I
thought
Sri Harold did that on the inner. If not, then there is a conflict
here. A
person may be ready spirituall but if the reviewer thinks unhighly of
that
person they won't get initiated.

Thanks<<<

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Hey Sharon, I just read Leafeater's post on a.r.e. and wanted to
share it with this group, but looks like you beat me to it. It was a
truly open, honest, and very revealing account of Eckankar's policies
on initiations!!! I especially like:

"Thus, the initiations are entirely bogus. They represent nothing more
than organizational status. Observe the behavior of the online clergy.
These are not enlightened beings. They are ordinary people caught up
in the throes of everyday life, like most people are in the rest of
the world."

This tells it all! Eckankar is just a business. That's all it is
anymore. Even thought I poke fun at Twitch and his "cosmic carnies"
like Reb and Fubbi, at least Twitch was interesting. (egomaniacal,
shifty and power mad) but nonetheless, interesting.
This Klemp guy is the "Milktoast Mahanta". He is boring, uninvolved,
and his banal writings wouldn't fare well with a third grade teacher.
This Eckankar is fascinating to me in a sense that after all of
this.....there are still defenders of the "path"!

Alf

Excerpt

From the book "Safe Distance From Genius" by Torf Enuff
All Rights Stolen From Other Sources and Copyrighted 2002 by Uckenkar

"Rubbertarz and I sat cross-legged in his shack up in the Himalayas.
I was surprised to see he was wearing a chartreuse thong with the
initials LRH embossed in gold on the crotch! He looked at me with his
coal black eyes and asked "What do the physical scientists know about
the Earth?" I looked at him, not unlike a hog staring at a wristwatch
and tilted my head to one side. Spittle fell from my lip as I eagerly
awaited his words of UCK wisdom. "Nothing, dammit! They are just a
bunch of overpaid silly white coated nerdballs laying claim to their
absurd theories!!"
TO drive his point home, he tried to poke two fingers into my eye
sockets but I quickly lifted my hand to stop him.(A trick I had
learned years before from Curly Howard who translated and who now
resides on the Stooge Lok.)
"I will tell you the Golden Wisdom you need to know about this
universe Torf.!!!"
"Soitenly" I replied (nyuk nyuk nyuk)
He seemed to fall off to sleep for a moment, but I stuck a match
between his swarthy toes and lit it. By the time it had burned half
his sandal and seared the walnut stained feet to fetid black, he
awoke with a start!
Rub spoke:
"You see the Isness of the UCK is in the here and now. There is IT
and I say you must say "I am THAT" Do you understand? When you know
that all of life springs from the Nowness and being of the UCK
Spirit, you will flow upwards through the planes of Then-ness and
arrive at Tomorrow-ness (and not a day too late)! You see, there are
three things one must remember about the UCK. 1. Inna Ghada Davita:
the ability to know that all is now and now is then and you are me
and I am you and we are all together...Goo goo gah joob!
2: Bhangha Gong: The pure Spirit of UCK flows through every atom of
your body. It permeates and destroys all living matter. It breaks
down enzymes and makes you fart and shit purple. You cannot control
your bodily functions so you must surrender to the UCK. Then and only
then, will your shit no longer stink. At this point, you may post to
a.r.u. (alt.religion.uckenkar)"
3: Wulli Bulli: The law of detachment and indifference. This is the
most important part of Uckenkar. When you are imbued with the UCK,
your brain detaches from your body and you basically become a
hallucinating vegetable. Do not worry. The UCK will take care of you.
You should become obnoxious, loud, incessant, avoid facts, clear
thinking, rational thought and reason. You shall recruit others to
become like you.....a slave to the UCK. Nothing else matters but the
UCK...well almost nothing......You must give the LUM (Living Uck
Master) $130 a year to maintain your status in the organization. Lose
your status, lose your initiations....that's it. Money talks,
bullshit walks. I won't invite you into my shack anymore and you are
on your own!"
I nodded and asked:
"Hey Rubbertars. When was the last time you got laid? Dude, your
testosterone levels are so high, your back teeth are floating!"
Rub reached under his maroon robe and started to stroke his private
area.
"One thing you must remember my little Torf....if God did not want us
to masturbate....he would have made our arms shorter!"

Alfji

We need more teachers & role models like Christine Pelton!


FEBRUARY 06, 14:14 ET
Teacher Resigns in Plagiarism Case

By CLAYTON BELLAMY
Associated Press Writer

PIPER, Kan. (AP) — High school teacher Christine Pelton wasted no
time after discovering that nearly a fifth of her biology students
had plagiarized their semester projects from the Internet.

She had received her rural Kansas district's backing before when she
accused students of cheating, and she expected it again this time
after failing the 28 sophomores.

Her principal and superintendent agreed: It was plagiarism and the
students should get a zero for the assignment.

But after parents complained, the Piper School Board ordered her to
go easier on the guilty.

Pelton resigned in protest in an episode that some say reflects a
national decline in integrity.

``This kind of thing is happening every day around the country, where
people with integrity are not being backed by their organization,''
said Michael Josephson, founder and president of the Josephson
Institute of Ethics in Marina del Rey, Calif.

Josephson pointed to the Enron bankruptcy scandal, in which an
executive whistle-blower had warned superiors about the potential
consequences of energy trader's off-the-books business deals.

Also in recent months, some of the nation's top historians, including
Stephen Ambrose, have been accused of borrowing passages from other
authors without proper credit.

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph Ellis was suspended without
pay for a year from Mount Holyoke College after lying to his students
about serving in Vietnam. Notre Dame University football coach George
O'Leary resigned after falsifying his athletic and academic
achievements on his resume.

``It's so hard to keep sending the message that character counts when
you have officials saying it doesn't count that much,'' Josephson
said.

In Piper, about 20 miles west of Kansas City, Mo., students got that
message loud and clear, Pelton said.

``The students no longer listened to what I had to say,'' she said.
``They knew if they didn't like anything in my classroom from here on
out, they can just go to the school board and complain.''

Piper High School junior Brandon Schmalz, 17, agreed. ``That was bad.
She was right, and they were wrong,'' Schmalz said of the board.

Pelton, 26, resigned days after the board ordered her to give the
students partial credit and to decrease the project's value from 50
percent of the final course grade to 30 percent.

Board president Chris McCord did not give a reason for the Dec. 11
decision, which was made behind closed doors. He said it was not
prompted by parents' complaints.

``If I had known all the publicity that would have come with this, I
would still make the same decision,'' McCord said.

One of the complaining parents was Theresa Woolley, who told The
Kansas City Star that her daughter did not plagiarize. Rather, her
daughter was not sure how much she needed to rewrite research
material, she said.

But Pelton said the course syllabus, which she required students to
sign, warned of the consequences of cheating and plagiarism.

Rutgers University professor of management Donald McCabe, who has
researched academic dishonesty in high schools and colleges, said
many teachers ignore cheating, and the Kansas episode illustrates
why.

``Parents are going to complain to principals and the school board,
and teachers feel there's no reason to believe they'll get support,''
said McCabe, whose study of high school students in 2000-01 found
that 74 percent had cheated or plagiarized during the prior year.

What is worse, McCabe said, is that tolerance of dishonesty
disheartens other students, who have to compete with the cheaters to
get into college.

``If they see teachers looking the other way, students feel compelled
to participate even though it makes them uncomfortable,'' McCabe
said. ``The loss of that sense of fairness is the fundamental reason
students cheat.''

In Kansas, at least a dozen teachers have said they plan to leave the
district after the school year because of the episode, said Lee
Quisenberry, a teachers union representative.

``You can get away with anything whether you're honest or not,''
Pelton said. The board's decision hurt ``the honest people, and
that's the worst thing about it.''




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Copyright 2002 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
redistributed.
Comments and questions
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Yeah, you're no doubt right about Eckankar having only 25,000 members or so.
50,000 is most likely on the high side. Funny, I've come across old (early
'70's) newspaper articles I have in storage that quote the org claiming
1,000,000 members worldwide! Truth and accuracy about membership, much less
anything else, has never been Eckankar's strong suit <g>.

-Leaf


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Check out:
http://www.surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/brainwashing.html


Any comments on it?  There's a few things I'd like to say, will get
back to this later, or tomorrow probably!!

Hugs,

Sharon

To all --

   Sometimes I wonder where my continuing passion comes from in
speaking out against Eckankar, but I think I might have a clue.
I've always been one to possess the qualities of skepticism and humor
as part of my self guidance through life.
Eckankar is not the only thing I find absurd in my spiritual journey
here on Earth, but also several of the other ways to God presented by
televangelists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and fantastic
organizations who profess to be the "Only True Way".
   I feel a need to clarify something here. Although I have had several
negative encounters with people from all of these disciplines, I have
also had compassion for them. I have had the opportunity to meet and
chat with a hard core Eckist within the last year. I have entertained
Mormons and have had a lasting friendship with a JW.

As far as Eckankar goes, I find that it has been sufficiently debunked
as just another cult and has outlived its usefulness and efficacy as
something that can be taken seriously as a way to God.
There are constant battles going on about Twitchell's plagiarism and
his overactive imagination that has brought his little program into
the 21st century. A new light is perpetuated by the man Harold Klemp
who has drastically altered the approach of Eckankar from the original
intent of its first Master..Twitchell.
  If Paul were alive today, he would probably think twice about
sticking his neck out about describing the physical characteristics of
his cadre of Masters like Rebazar Tarzs.
   I know that Eckists have the same fears and maladies that every else
on Earth face. Eckankar has not changed that aspect of their life one
iota. It is the viewpoint or perspective of Eckists on a.r.e. from
which they speak that rouses my suspicions that the formula doesn't
work like it was intended.
   If The "Eck" was so real, powerful, unspeakably beautiful and
truthful as it had claimed to be with Twitch at the helm, there would
not be such a thing as a.r.e.
But there is....and it is populated by several souls who feel a need
to defend it. This defense is nothing more than a lame attempt at
setting the record straight for new members no matter what the price
paid by assasinating detractor's character.
   I maintain that being an Eckist, Mormon, or whatever, and feeling SO
  impartial and devoted to the path, evokes the response that they want
others so desperately to see it their way.
   Getting back to humor and skepticism.
Being involved in Eckankar is like standing on a whale....fishing for
minnows.
It is after all a formulaic and all too enterprising approach to God.
I look back at the multitude of books written by Twitch (of which only
one is still available...Stranger By The River)and see now what they
call evolution but in reality is restructuring and a desperate move
away from the imaginative mind of the 60's.
I can't help but feel a deep pity for the folks who buy into this crap
yet I feel no remorse for poking fun at the relentless absurdities
they profess as elements of their faith....Rebazar Tarzs, the city of
Retz on Venus, Harold's Hulda Clark Zapper, The Airport Incident, the
pseudo-mystical barrage of idiocies that run rampant through the
teachings. This of course is the side of Eckankar that they would
rather forget but is nonetheless laid in stone as their true
beginnings and hidden from the newcomers.
Eckankar is, after all, a very funny religion. Funny because it is
fiction taken as fact. It is lies taken as truth. It claims to be the
most perfect path to God yet takes you to the end of the tunnel where
the white light is........ just that, the end of the tunnel.
I find great pleasure in throwing the theology back in the face of
serious and contentious upstart fundies. I love to make fun of the
utter absurdities they call truth.
Life is not perfect....and I am just here for a while to assure
otherwise.


Alfji

Just had to laugh at the recent a.r.e. exchange between Lurk and
Gruntie. It is a perfect example of how Eckists just simply refuse to
answer a direct question. It's like trying to teach a pig how to sing.
It frustrates the teacher (Lurk)....and annoys the pig (cher}.

Alf

Garcia writes:
>History is written by the powerful and the winners.  They write it
to promote their point of
>view.

Alf writes:
That's a blanket statement which requires some more exposition. Maybe
SOME history is written that way such as...dare I say..... ECKANKAR!!

Garcia writes:
   Even maps in United States classrooms emphasize our country and
distort our view.  Can you
>remember grade school where the USA looked larger than Africa on the
map?

Alf write:
No I can't...I don't know what school you went to but Africa was
always
larger. And Asia even larger!

Garcia wites:
   Historically we record
>those things that emphasize the popular view.  Eckankar has been far
from the popular view.  I
>can't imagine all of history being written to accurately emphasize
ECK
history.

Alf writes:
True, Eckankar IS far from the popular view, but it is also not
significant enough to be considered historical. It was written by one
little man for profit...not to present the world with THE TRUTH.
Twitch
had an "AGENDA" for his actions.Case in point... St. Paul, Luke, John,
Matthew, all  related the very real and miraculous life of one Jesus
Christ. Paul and Gail sat around and concocted ECKANKAR over a few
glasses of champagne in Southern California!!

Garcia writes:
  Consider the
>value of your sources.  It's the first thing you need to know in
doing
any kind of research

And Alf writes:
Yes, and Twitchell found so much value in HIS sources, he rewrote them
word for word.

Garcia writes:
   If
>you are concerned about historical accuracy you've either got to
have a lifespan of several
>thousand years to prove it,

Alf writes:
Wrong again Garcia, I didn't live during the Holocaust yet I know it
happened due to overwhelming evidence. Everything Twitch teaches is so
vague and subjective...it is arguably false!!!
Look at the sources Paul...How many times do you have to bitch slapped
with the lies of your leaders Klemp, Gross, Twitchell, and all those
little demons running around on the various planes before you can form
one single rational thought you can honestly call your own???? Read
David Lane..he is brilliant and truthful and irresistably logical.

Garcia dribbles:

   A
>little gentleness in your attitude might allow you to notice these
important details before you
>plow your head into the sand.

Alf writes:

My gentleness is reserved for the people I love..My family and
friends.
I have no patience with long-winded pseudo-intellects like you who try
to fill up a page with subjective nonsensical judgements about
historicity and its validity. This whole newsgroup is a farce and
Eckankar is a dangerous cult much like Ebola, which liquifies your
organs, only the Eck melts your rational mind!!
>
>--Paul Garcia
And Stone Cold Alf!!!
>
>
>> Well, if ECKANKAR wasn't fraudulent, it would stand upright,
historically..right??
>> Using history to determine the validity if something as important
as spiritual sources
>> is a damned good place to start if you ask me and Paul Twitchell
has been proven to be
>> nothing BUT a bare-faced liar and plaigerist. Boy, 23 years in
ECKANKAR has really took
>> its toll on your sensibilities!!

Alfie

http://faculty.fuqua.duke.edu/~dasvarma/bio/

"Most of Eckankar's estimated fifty-thousand members have no idea of
the history of their group. We
         believe that they have committed their lives, their faith and
idealism to a false belief system"
         (Enroth et. al. 63)

All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

I almost had a Eckist girlfriend who could bilocate, but she left me
before we met.

Join Eckankar, meet interesting people, brainwash them.

Eckists used to have an open mind but their brains kept falling out.

For Twitch: To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal
from many is research.

Twitch: I got food poisoning today. I don't know when I'll use it.

If God dropped acid, would he see people?

I'm moving to Retz next week, so if you have any boxes...

Rose Sierra puts tape on the mirrors in her house so she doesn't
accidentally walk through into another dimension.

Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while Windy was a suspect

Harold once tried to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge... He
changed his mind at the last minute, so he just flipped over and
landed on his feet. Two little kittens nearby saw what happened and
one turned to the other and said, "See, that's how it's done."


Alf

http://cbi.nic.in/bp3.htm

HI walking down the beach alongside of the Ocean of Love and Mercy.
He spots a pretty girl sitting on a blanket catching some rays.
He walks over to here and begins to start looking for something in
the sand in near her blanket. She looks up and asks "Did you lose
something?"
He says "I seem to have misplaced my certificate for my 12th
initiation around here......oh...I suppose that's OK, I have another
one at home!..........."

Alf

Hi All!

Just checking in...and a ladybug just landed on the monitor screen!

Anyway, I've been busy and not at all in the mood for *anything*
connected with the totally silly spacey new-age cult I totally
believed in for almost 15 years, although I realize I have to get
back to "work" soon...

Just wanted to share, I have been working on developing a
relationship with an incredibly awesome & beautiful beyond words
**albino** deer!  Tonight I was roughly 6-8 feet from it, and it
looked curious & interested as I talked to it, silly things like "I
love you" and "You are *so* beautiful!!"  It's all white except for
the ears, and a stripe between the eyes and down the nose...

I am sure that eventually, it will be eating out of my hand!!

It's a young one...born last spring, so I guess it's almost a year
old...it's always with its mother, and sometimes with another one or
two adult deer...

The funny thing is, when they have a choice, the deer eat junk food!
Seriously!!!   Tonight, they didn't touch the apples but they
*totally* wiped out the stale banana nut muffins!!  But what they
*really* like are reduced "stale" donuts from Walmart!!

The turkeys did a pretty good job cleaning up the old chow mein
noodles I found in a bottom drawer... <ggg>

It was pretty funny, I figured Noodle would try to "make friends"
with them, as he's always done with critters & people.  But he just
stands at a distance, barking at them.  I don't know if Paws has seem
them yet...

Gotta go!!

Bye!

Love & Hugs!!

Sharon

>>"Love is like a slow, consuming fire which starts in the
>>center of man's heart and slowly moves outward, destroying
>>all in its path.  Nothing can stop love, and even when it is
>>quenched, it will break out somewhere else."
>>
>>       Stranger by the River - Paul Twitchell

Destroying all in its path? I believe the word "changing all in its
path" would get the message across much better, don't you?
Destroying doesn't work for me because I am not a blind cult puppy
who adores everything Eck Masters say, do, eat, sleep and shit.


  For all the damned books, magazines, and newspapers that Twitchell
purportedly read in his lifetime, the damned fool should have learned
how to write decent prose. Not only is Stranger By The River" such a
usual piece of Paul-shit, but the "Ye Olde English" language of King
James just slays me! In one book (Fart Country), Old Reb is poking
his finger into Paul's chest, barking like an old dog in the
wilderness, and the next thing you know, he's talking like
Shakespeare by a river in India.
I suppose it was after all just a ploy to give Christians a "heads
up" that even Eckankar can be thy way to thine Creator!!<ROFLMAO>


Alf