Dear Nina (and all),

--- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Alex,
> I will think over your post, but it takes time. some duties first: my
> Sangiiti co. part two I have to finish, plus some old revisions I am
> doing. All this takes time. But I enjoy discussing with you.
> Nina.
> Op 10-jul-2009, om 23:36 heeft Alex het volgende geschreven:
>
> > Desire, or motivation IS required to do anything including
> > following the path, up to certain stages.
> >
> > There was even a sutta where Ananda has said that craving & conceit
> > CAN BE SKILLFULLY USED.

Please do.


Here is a sutta:

AN 4.159 PTS: A ii 144 Bhikkhuni Sutta: The Nun
"'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on
craving that craving is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to
what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, 'The monk named
such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered &
remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having
known & realized them for himself in the here & now.' The thought occurs to him,
'I hope that I, too, will — through the ending of the fermentations — enter &
remain in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having
known & realized them for myself in the here & now.' Then, at a later time, he
abandons craving, having relied on craving. 'This body comes into being through
craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.'
Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"'This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by relying on
conceit that conceit is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said. And in reference to
what was it said? There is the case, sister, where a monk hears, 'The monk named
such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the fermentations, has entered &
remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having
known & realized them for himself in the here & now.' The thought occurs to him,
'The monk named such-and-such, they say, through the ending of the
fermentations, has entered & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release
& discernment-release, having known & realized them for himself in the here &
now. Then why not me?' Then, at a later time, he abandons conceit, having relied
on conceit. 'This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by
relying on conceit that conceit is to be abandoned.' Thus was it said, and in
reference to this was it said.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.159.than.html


With metta,


Alex