Hi Jon,

> Do you have any references on the 4 manifestations of sanna that you
> mention --'registration (marking), retention, retrieval and recall'? I
> would be interested to know where I can read more about this.
>


The bottom-line of how I came up with those descriptions is from multiple
sources. Hmm, let me tell you how I came up.

I have been reading lakkhanaticcatuka, (four characters: {characteristics
(lakkhanam: specific or generic attribute) function (rasa: function or
achievement), manifestation (paccupat-thana: manifestation, appearance or
effect) and proximate cause (padatthanam) }), from various sources, English,
Pali and couple of different translations of these 4 characteristics in Thai,
from Milindapanha, a little bit from my tipitaka online search. And I have to
admit that I also reflect about it from my background, my training and
practice at work.

I cut this from Nina's "Cetasikas":
" {The Atthasalini (I, Part IV, Chapter 1, 110) states about sanna:
...It has the characteristic of noting (In Pali: sanjanati, cognizing well)
and the function of recognizing what has been previously noted.}". Which is
consistent with pali description that I have in my Thai abdms.

I think Nina put it together very nicely, from the same page,
" { The Visuddhimagga (XIV, 130) gives a similar definition. We can
use the words perceiving, noting, recognizing and 'marking' in order to
designate the reality, which is sanna, but words are inadequate to describe
realities. We should study the characteristic and function of sanna.
Sanna is not the same as citta which is the 'leader' in
cognizing an object. As we have seen, sanna recognizes the object and it
'marks' it so that it can be recognized again. This is explained by way of a
simile: carpenters put tags or signs on logs so that they can recognize them
at once by means of these marks. This simile can help us to understand the
complex process of recognizing or remembering. What we in conventional
language call "remembering" consists of many different moments of citta and
each of these moments of citta is accompanied by sanna which connects past
experiences with the present one and conditions again recognition in the
future. This connecting function is represented by the words 'recognition'
and 'marking' (1 See Abhidhamma Studies, by the Ven. Nyanaponika, 1976, page
70, where it is explained that the making of marks and remembering is
included in every act of perception.) when the present experience has fallen
away it has become past and what was future becomes the present, and all the
time there is sanna which performs its function so that an object can be
recognized. If we remember that sanna accompanies every citta, we will better
understand that the characteristic of sanna is not exactly the same as what
we mean by the conventional terms of 'recognition', 'perception' or 'marking'
. Each citta which arises falls away immediately and is succeeded by the next
citta, and since each citta is accompanied by sanna which recognizes and
'marks 'the object, one can recognize or remember what was perceived or
learnt before. }"

To me noting, marking or the term I usually use in my work, registration
point to same thing to make a mark of the input for later recall. Rasa or
function as quoted above "recognizing what has been previously noted", which
I use the word "recall". I put it the word retention and retrieval to fill
the process between noting and recall. And I think that's part of sanna as
well. When some one has memory problem, the way I was trained is where on
the process has pathology. Registration problem is usually from attention
span, level of consciousness. Recall usually with neuropathology or at times
psychological. Anterograde amnesia is when one cannot retain new information
and retrograde amnesia is when one cannot retrieve what had been retained
before.

The following I cut from online abdms by Nárada Thera, Vájiráráma, Colombo. I
think he put the examples from Milindapanha, Atthasalini and Visuddhimagga
together.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Saññá - Sam + ñá, to know, (Compare Latin cognoscere, to know.)
The meaning of this term widely varies according to the context. To avoid
unnecessary confusion, it is best to understand the specific meaning used in
the particular connection as a universal mental state.

The chief characteristic of saññá is the cognition of an object by way of a
mark as blue etc. It is saññá that enables one to recognize an object that
has once been perceived by the mind through the senses. "Its procedure is
likened to the carpenter's recognition of certain kinds of wood by the mark
he had made on each; to the treasurer's specifying certain articles of
jewelry by the ticket on each; to the wild animal's discernment in the
scarecrow of the work of man."

Saññá, therefore, means simple sense perception.
"Perception," according to a modern Dictionary of Philosophy, "is the
apprehension of ordinary sense-objects, such as trees, houses, chairs, etc.,
on the occasion of sensory stimulation."

Perception is not used here in the sense employed by early modern
philosophers such as Bacon, Descartes, Spinoza, and Leibniz.

As one of the five khandhas (Aggregates) saññá is used in the sense of
perception.

Could it be that memory is due to this saññá?

Saññá, viññána and paññá should be differentiated from one another. Saññá is
like the mere perception of a rupee coin by a child. By its whiteness,
roundness and size it merely recognizes the coin as a rupee, utterly ignorant
of its monetary value. A man, for instance, discerns its value and its
utility, but is not aware of its chemical composition. Viññána is comparable
to the ordinary man's knowledge of the rupee. Paññá is like the analytical
knowledge of a chemist who knows all its chemical properties in every detail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel like word or term have limitation but it impotant in communication.
Even sanna is appearing here and now but word cannot describe it all.

Further input and feedback are appreciated.

Num




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