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introduction and _Dhalgren_ movie rights   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #883 of 3213 |
Re: [delany-list] Triton

At 11:19 AM 6/3/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Another subtitle is "Some notes toward the modular calculus, part one."
>(And an appendix is part two; and the Neveryon books continue the
>series.) The "modular calculus" is, or is supposed to be, simply the
>study of what must be present in both A and B (or what must pass from B
>to A) for us to meaningfully say that A models B. Frankly, I have never
>quite worked out what the story of TRITON had to do with the modular
>calculus...

Perhaps it's because I empathize so strongly with Bron (TROUBLE ON TRITON
is the example which taught me that "A satire, to be useful, must be
misunderstood"), but it seems fairly plain to me:

The chief practitioner of the modular calculus in the novel is Bron. The
discipline was founded by another straight guy from Mars. Although Bron, no
intellectual or philosopher, doesn't appreciate the foundational works, the
one character in the novel who's met both Bron and the discipline's
originator comments on how much alike they are.

Only someone ill at ease with an accepted model -- of logic, for example --
seeks alternatives to it. Only someone like Bron, who remains unable to
choose between apparently distinct logical choices and unable to agree with
reasonable arguments while also unable to let go of the appearance of
disciplined rationality, would have such a knack for the modular calculus.

What this suggests is that not only can you always find someone who will be
unhappy in a social system, no matter how utopian, but that such unhappy
people will, despite (or because of) their many misperceptions, be able to
perceive (or create, if you prefer) otherwise unperceived aspects of
reality, and be able, at best, and very much along with their continued
unhappiness and pointless destructiveness, to achieve positive advances
that those who are more happily socialized cannot.

To put it another way: the young Delany idealized the
outsider-artist-criminal, and then the wide-open boho hippie community of
outsider-artist-criminals. In TRITON, he posits that in the land of
sophisticated beatniks, it's the uptight square who would be placed in that
outsider-artist-criminal part.

It's true that Bron himself achieves little within the book except
pointless destruction. But the novel ends on a low note of sublime hope,
with Bron finally realizing a dramatically shared experience. Whether he
recognizes it or not, and what he afterward does with the recognition if he
gets it, is left unwritten. But we've followed him out of a rigid lack of
possibility to a point at which possibilities finally re-open.

Best,
Ray




Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:26 pm

kokonino_ray
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Message #883 of 3213 |
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Hi, all. My name is Forrest, and I'm a huge fan of Delany's work, both fictional and critical. I've read all of his work save _They Fly At Ciron_ and a few of...
ogd@...
othiym23
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Nov 17, 2001
3:48 pm

you have confused the real and the true. This distinction from Dhalgren I love. and I also love the fragmented prose and I also love the sex the three way sex...
anna miller
ruboutthewords
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Nov 19, 2001
4:29 am

... The opening of The Mad Man has an image like that--a frightful creature stalking the streets of New York--but it is only metaphorically central to the book...
Steve Maxey
chimaxx
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Nov 19, 2001
2:42 pm

In a message dated 11/18/01 11:30:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I have used this many times myself... misho...
kmisho64@...
kmisho64
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Nov 21, 2001
1:21 pm

... I remember that web site; I was glad when I ran across it, and sorry that it seemed to have fallen into disrepair. Glad to hear that you're still reading...
david carlton
carlton_db
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Nov 19, 2001
11:32 pm

Mmm. I do not think Dhalgren is 'unfilmable' at all. I would love to see David Cronenberg tackle it, or maybe David Lynch. Or maybe Bill Condon or even Robert...
Gerhard Hope
babel17@...
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Nov 20, 2001
5:53 pm

The people most likely to know about the film rights to DHALGREN would be the author, or the author's agent (Henry Morrison, right?). With regard to Gerhard's...
Zvi Gilbert
zvi_delany_list
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Nov 20, 2001
6:35 pm

... Exactly. For me, _Dhalgren_ is primarily about a character in a novel attaining varying degrees of awareness that they are in a novel, and being affected...
Erich Schneider
ers1648
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Nov 20, 2001
7:26 pm

... <...> ... <...> ... On the other hand, Triton WOULD work on stage or screen, with the right script and director. A director like David Cronenberg with...
maxx
chimaxx
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Nov 20, 2001
7:30 pm

In a message dated 11/20/01 12:59:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I didn't see AI. I thought I might rent it, to keep expense to a minimum in case it sucked. ...
kmisho64@...
kmisho64
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Nov 21, 2001
1:21 pm

In a message dated 11/20/01 1:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, zvi@... ... I think we'd agree that voice-overs wouldn't work. The stream-of-consciousness...
kmisho64@...
kmisho64
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Nov 21, 2001
1:21 pm

In a message dated 11/20/01 2:32:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I just can't see it that way. There is no such thing as a character being aware he is in a...
kmisho64@...
kmisho64
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Nov 21, 2001
1:22 pm

... OK, well, what is your take on: - Kid's notebook, containing text very much like the text in the novel we are reading, and a list of names which may...
Erich Schneider
ers1648
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Nov 21, 2001
4:57 pm

In a message dated 11/21/01 11:59:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... "do not confuse the true and the real." Though points in the book may be true, the described...
kmisho64@...
kmisho64
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Nov 26, 2001
2:18 pm

Dhalgren always struck me as a very visual book. Delany's description of the shattered city and its broken interstices was, and is, to me exceedingly ...
Gerhard Hope
babel17@...
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Nov 21, 2001
6:16 pm

Dhalgren would be the book that I'd film. I think that it would have the broadest appeal. I felt like I was watching a movie when I was reading it. Einstein...
creativebrother@...
creativebrother
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Nov 22, 2001
5:10 am

... In that, he is very much like John Dowell in Ford Maddox Ford's "The Good Soldier". About "The Good Soldier, one critic wrote (at ...
Steve Maxey
chimaxx
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Nov 22, 2001
3:04 pm

I am enjoying the talk about Dhalgren immensely. I could read about this book forever. I was wondering if anyone would like to share their thoughts about ...
jswalsh65
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Jun 1, 2002
7:39 pm

... There was a lot of discussion of Triton on the list back in February (pretty much the whole month), much of it very intense. You may want to go through the...
Steve Maxey
chimaxx
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Jun 1, 2002
11:46 pm

Thanks for the ref. to old Triton discussion. This is what ahppens when you go away for a mere 7 months. best, John W P.S. Anyone wanna suggest another novel...
jswalsh65
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Jun 2, 2002
11:44 pm

John W writ... ... Okay, from a purely personal perspective ... The first thing that struck me when I picked up a brand-new copy of TRITON was that it wasn't...
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
netroach2k
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Jun 3, 2002
6:39 pm

... Perhaps it's because I empathize so strongly with Bron (TROUBLE ON TRITON is the example which taught me that "A satire, to be useful, must be ...
Ray Davis
kokonino_ray
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Jun 3, 2002
7:36 pm
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