I would like to make a few comments. Doug is implying that there is absolute
reality in the spirit world. I would agree more with Enoch that the first
level spirit world is an imperfect place heavily influenced by our own
expectations. These are my reasons. The spirit world is not the Celestial
Kingdom. Anything that is less than perfect has only a relative portion of
perfection.

NDE experiences most often describe a place that is very much like this world
only more beautiful. Obviously it is a step up from here. Perfection is on a
continuum and I doubt that we reach it all at once. If that is true of us as
people I can imagine it is also true of places. In the series of books "Life
in the World Unseen" published by MAP it describes the spirit world as a place
where people learn to create their surroundings through their thoughts. It
also describes the author walking to the edge of his portion of the spirit
world and that he was barely able to see things. Then when Jesus came and got
him and took him on a tour, Jesus gave him "spiritual eyes" so that he could
see those things that looked very faded or not there at all. I think this
hints to the fact that there are many levels or mansions in the heavens and
they are gradually adding to our experience and knowledge. SO I would agree
that there is absolute reality in the high reaches of the heavens but not in
the first place we arrive in the spirit world. We are given line upon line,
precept upon precept until we are perfected.

I don't think we here on this earth take much responsibility for creating our
circumstances here on earth. We blame it on bad luck, the other guy and so
forth. The more we accept that our thoughts and beliefs draw things into our
lives because that is what we deep down believe, the more we can consciously
create more favorable circumstances for ourselves. That is the basis for much
business success literature and is true of every aspect of our lives. It is
easier to believe we are victims of various things than taking the
responsibility that we are drawing to ourselves certain experiences. The main
problem here on this earth is that TIME is involved and so we don't see the
direct correlation between our thoughts, beliefs and the things that occur in
our life. When we die we lose the influence of TIME and things happen nearly
instantaneously. Many NDE's speak of traveling instantaneously merely through
thought. I think it will be easier in the first level spirit world to see
that our thoughts do create things and will learn to be conscious creators.

The reason that the Celestial Kingdom is perfect is because the people who are
there create things with their thoughts that are exactly in accordance with
God's will. Hence it is a perfect place because they are perfectly aligned in
their thoughts--they are one.

I think this leads into a comment by Sterling in describing what he terms New
Age. " They also teach that we are already gods, and never were not gods,
taking all meaning of that word away, and dethroning God, the means of our
overcoming all things and attaining to godhood." How can a child of a monkey
not be a monkey? How can a child of God not be a God? Our spirits, our
higher selves, are Gods. Our human bodies are not. From my understanding we
are trying to make our spirit and body ONE and attain Godhood on a different
level. I believe the effort to make people aware of their godhood is a means
of awakening their spirit.

The majority of Christian churches believe that the LDS people are blasphemous
in that they teach we can become Gods. When teachers believe in children's
possibilities they perform better according to many psychological studies. I
remember one instance where a teacher was told a certain child was a genius.
The child became just that because of the way that teacher talked to and
treated that child. If we truly believe that each of us are Gods and expect
that sort of behavior we are going to awaken latent abilities in people and
they will become on earth what they had already attained in their pre-earth
life PLUS they will go beyond that because they chose it in duality. It makes
them stronger.

To deny we are Creator Gods, right now, today on this earth, we will limit the
heights we can climb. Awaken to the power of your thoughts. BE Come a
conscious creator. Follow the example of Jesus Christ. He is the first one
we know of to perfect attaining congruence between his Godly spirit and his
earthly body and made them ONE and conquered duality. He tells us to be
joint-heirs (equal) to him. Nothing would make him happier. To keep him up
on an unattainable platform that we lowly humans could never hope to obtain is
the BIGGEST LIE Satan has ever perpetrated. To worship him from afar, to
never know his personality, to never joke and laugh with him, to never FOLLOW
in his footsteps and "do greater things than he did" is to break his heart.
We first have to acknoweldge that it is possible. Jesus Christ is our Saviour
until we grow up enough to realize we CAN do EVERYTHING he did. That is not
showing a lack of respect for him and what he has done. It is merely doing
what he asked us to--to walk IN HIS FOOTSTEPS. Is he absolutely an integral
part of our ability to attain that level of perfection? Well of course. We
have an example now that IT IS POSSIBLE. We watched him do it. Now it's our
turn.

Susan

: Doug, I'm convinced you're very perceptive and pretty darn spiritually
: sharp!
:
: Lynn
:
:
: : >
: >
: > The problem is that when you get into the spirit world or what is also
: > knownas the fourth dimension, your "thoughts" create your environment.
: This
: > wasmost likely Lance's personal belief before he ever had the NDE and was
: > merely a self manifestation.
: >
: > Doug:
: >
: > Are you saying there is no absolute reality in the spirit world.. that the
: > spirit world are based on Relativism concepts?
: >
: