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  • Members: 229
  • Category: Tango
  • Founded: Aug 11, 1999
  • Language: English
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Reply Message #1632 of 4986 |

Mornin' All,

Tijen forwarded me this fine close-embrace.com newsletter, which has a
rather... err... interesting advice column this time. I'm sending it around
partly for its entertainment value and partly for it being related to the
rather serious subject of negotiating boundaries in tango, which
occasionally gets discussed.
(Ew, did I step on a taboo. < ducks under a table > )

Happy Dancing,

Melih

==== begin paste ====
Welcome to the Close-Embrace.com Newsletter.
....
4. New ASK MALEVA Advice Column - .... & "Help! Men Try To Kiss Me When We
Dance"
....
....

Dear M,

I am a tanguera who loves the close embrace. I also have no problem with
letting myself go in a man's arm during a dance. Thus far, I have found that
most men have been respectful of that and that only a few might insinuate
things after the dance. But I have had two occassions, one very early on in
my tango experience, and one most recently, in which the men attempted to
kiss me full on during the dance. Needless to say, I wasn't very happy
about it and my first reaction was to slap the men. I didn't. I love the
dance too much to have any situation ruin my experience. Anyway, my
question to you is, how do I go about making my intentions clear? That the
outpouring of emotion and passion i have in a dance is strictly for the love
of the dance and not for the dancer. Do you think it would be appropriate
to just say something along those lines before I begin dancing with someone?
Your advice would be much appreciated : )

Thanks,
L

* * *
Dear L,

Ew, how awful! Well, I don't think it would be appropriate or even necessary
to mention that you don't want any 'extra attention' before you begin
dancing because in most cases the 'tango relationship' starts off with rules
and parameters. One of the wonderful things about the tango experience is
that one can feel 'open' during the dance to experience many feelings
without crossing boundaries. There is nothing wrong with flirting or trying
to hook up with a woman at a milonga, but it should happen off the floor,
out to public view, and with the woman's consent. Taking the embrace is not
the same as giving consent to romantic intentions. I think you will find
most of the good dancers are there just to dance and will demonstrate any
romantic feelings through their dance in a respectful way.

Unfortunately, as in the case of the incidents you described, people
can sometimes get swept away by these feelings and there will always be
those few men who will try to take advantage of you during the dance,
whether you 'let go' or not. Some guys think that just because you let them
take you in your arms that you want something more, regardless of the
signals you are sending him. Personally, I think you should have slapped
these guys when they tried to smooch you, or at least pushed them away and
said something to put them in their place. At least, I hope you made it
very clear that what they did was totally inappropriate, and I hope that you
haven't danced with them since. I know you don't want to the reputation of
being a b*tch, but you don't want to be known as easy either. In tango,
sometimes it's better to be the b*tch. Don't be afraid to be strong about
it; if you come off as strong there is less a chance of guys thinking they
can take advantage in the future.

[To be fair, my friend who is a guy, wants to say: "May I ask, do you do
anything a little 'out of the ordinary' to demonstrate your passion for the
dance? Moaning, perhaps? (Some women do this!) Caressing the man's neck? Or
even the dreaded um, 'flip up'? Sometimes the woman has to restrain herself
too!"]

-Maleva
==== end paste ====

P.S. What the heck is the 'dreaded flip-up'? (I know I'm gonna regret having
asked this.) -m.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:08 pm

melihtango
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Message #1632 of 4986 |
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Mornin' All, Tijen forwarded me this fine close-embrace.com newsletter, which has a rather... err... interesting advice column this time. I'm sending it around...
Melih Sener
melihtango Offline Send Email
Mar 11, 2005
3:08 pm

Hehe, I found it quite funny that Madame Maleva finds it totally ok to deliver a slap as a responce to un uninvited kiss. I suppose one can conclude that in...
Areg
aregjan@... Send Email
Mar 11, 2005
5:25 pm

Though you guys might enjoy a relevant personal anecdote... Once I almost accidentally kissed a non-romantic friend on the lips after a dance. I had been...
Andrew Wagner
drewillini Offline Send Email
Mar 11, 2005
8:15 pm

Whoa..."a kiss is just a kiss"? "do you do anything a little 'out of the ordinary' to demonstrate your passion for the dance?" Ok, i see. so whatever guys want...
Ursula C. Wagner
ursulaanbaatar Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2005
7:28 am

... Firstly, there is no need to smear clichee-d pseudo-feminist accusations on me: nowhere did I say or imply that "whatever guys want to do is ok." A...
Areg
aregjan@... Send Email
Mar 11, 2005
11:58 pm

Hold on a minute, Areg. Ursula is right about this, and she's not speaking in theoretical cliches either. When was the last time a guy groped you in a public...
Joe Grohens
joegrohens Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2005
10:55 am

Whoa! Let's get this into perspective: We are talking about a human act of inappropriate behavior. A woman accepts a dance with a person, maybe a stranger,...
Carlota
tangopuppet Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2005
4:51 pm

OK, I'm going to allow myself one small comment in this thread. I agree with most of Carlota's comments, but this needs clarification: ... Most of my...
Jim Phillips
jcphilluiuc Offline Send Email
Mar 15, 2005
10:05 pm

... Joe, talking of cliche-s -- I knew someone was gonna bring up this example (sound like you got it from a rape prevention pamphlet). I think you are...
Areg
aregjan@... Send Email
Mar 13, 2005
11:40 pm

... Case reviews, actually.... I bet you're just bracing for my Hitler move. ;-) ... You and Mr. friend-of-Maleva think it resulted from a gross ...
Joe Grohens
joegrohens Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2005
8:57 am

... I can already immagine you doing it -- leather boots would look SO good on you. ;) ... Look, I know that the society is full of predators. Being a father ...
Areg
aregjan@... Send Email
Mar 14, 2005
6:40 pm

... I thought you can do a Fourier transform, figure a curve fit, and le voil: predictability. I "know" my faucet is going to drip, I just don't know when. ...
Joe Grohens
joegrohens Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2005
7:58 pm

... Dude, wasn't that was hanky-panky between consenting adults! If she felt violated or was in fear for her job, Monica should have turned Bill down (even if...
Andrew Wagner
drewillini Offline Send Email
Mar 15, 2005
10:30 pm

There is one factual matter that is pretty glossed over in this regard that I would like to clarify. (pretty much off topic) Clinton lied during Grand Jury...
Mark Johnson
usawiwasu Offline Send Email
Mar 16, 2005
7:46 am

Thanks, Joe, I couldn't have said it better myself. By the way, I'd like to apologize to anybody to whom I gave the impression that I have a very low opinion...
Ursula C. Wagner
ursulaanbaatar Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2005
4:26 pm
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