... Bob, I believe I've got very close to what Jesus taught - see the web page below for the reconstructed document, which I date at ca. 45 CE. Note that the ...
23998
Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 11, 2012 12:01 pm
Good Morning Bob, ... I'll address this more when I write back to Steve. I have a busy morning ahead, but will get back. But for a short answer... I think ...
23999
Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 11, 2012 12:19 pm
Bob, one more all too brief response... ... Two things: There's the old story of Hillel and one of his students... the student inquiring after how the great...
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David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 11, 2012 6:20 pm
Stevan argued that a) we find "spirit possession" in the NT that b) this is a form of dissociation and c) that there are many examples of this in the NT (and...
24001
Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 11, 2012 6:42 pm
Steve and all, Back from a morning's business and so I'll try to make a beginning response to the rest of your note: ... First... wisdom words/ stories are...
24002
sdavies0
Jan 12, 2012 4:46 pm
... He says: > "But the fundamental factor in this dissociation is that a secondary > personality or persona is understood to be in charge and the primary >...
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William Arnal
warnalca
Jan 12, 2012 5:40 pm
Hey Steve: Have you read Daniel Smail's _On Deep History and the Brain_? No, I'm not waving bibliography at you to make an argumentative point: I am sincerely...
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Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 12, 2012 6:00 pm
Hi Steven. Interesting and helpful note. Just a few thoughts below: ... I am glad to hear your reticence in trying to mix all dissociative states into one...
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sdavies0
Jan 12, 2012 6:33 pm
David Mealand wrote > What I am not at all so sure of is that Acts 2 is at all so close to > historic actuality. There are literary links with symbolism used...
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E Bruce Brooks
ebrucebrooks
Jan 12, 2012 6:44 pm
To: XTalk On: 1 Cor 13 From: Bruce I am out of the Pentecostal discussion, not being qualified to understand it, but I find it possible to agree with one...
24007
sdavies0
Jan 12, 2012 7:04 pm
... It can be suspect, it can be impossible, it can be lacking vocabulary, but we still must deal with the rise of Christianity in terms of experiences that...
24008
sdavies0
Jan 12, 2012 7:07 pm
... Thanks Bill, I'll get hold of it. Steve...
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David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 12, 2012 7:36 pm
Stevan wrote ------------- And, unfortunately, we are in bad trouble trying to write about dissociative experiences in religion under all circumstances. There...
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Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 12, 2012 7:58 pm
At 12:03 PM 1/12/2012, sdavies0 wrote: [snip] ... For modern investigations, besides Stevan's book, I recommend Morton Kelsey's *Psychology, Medicine and...
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Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 12, 2012 8:55 pm
Hi Stevan, Thanks for the note. A few comments/ questions: ... Would you categorize all passages of mention of the work of the "spirit" from the Hebrew Bible...
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Jeff Peterson
jeffpeterson...
Jan 12, 2012 9:28 pm
Thanks to all for the very interesting discussion, which (sadly) I'm too busy to contribute to at any length. I did want to note one point regarding Steve's...
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Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 12, 2012 9:45 pm
... But wait a minute. Paul was sufficiently acquainted with "speaking in tongues" to know that some of it was just plain gobbledygook. In 1 Cor 14:26-28, he...
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David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 12, 2012 9:57 pm
Stevan wrote---------------- So, when I discover that people think that Luke's Acts is unreliable I am troubled. Maybe Luke is unreliable, but I like to think...
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David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 12, 2012 10:21 pm
Bob points out that Paul concedes that tongues could be allowed, if followed by interpretation, but Paul also adds a further restrictive clause that they are...
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Gordon Raynal
feydmartha
Jan 12, 2012 10:44 pm
David, Thanks for this note. ... Well said. Which means with interpreter's present there is a standard, if you will, for the content of the holy communication...
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Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 12, 2012 11:44 pm
... But it is important also to realize that Paul would not have written this if he had not encountered glossolalia, and that Paul was writing about a...
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sdavies0
Jan 13, 2012 4:18 am
... OK. It is not a transcription of actual events and I'm not an inerrantist. ... I'm not sure why this is relevant, but I don't deny that they are somewhat...
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David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 13, 2012 10:21 am
I certainly didn't suggest that Acts 2 is quoting Philo. The symbolism of Acts 2 relates to the feast of weeks being the time of celebrating the giving of the...
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Ed HJ
edhj1
Jan 17, 2012 4:08 am
Surely all are aware of at least some of the works of Schubert Ogden, James Robinson and H, D, Betz on the HJ. I attempted a reconstruction based largely on...
24021
Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 17, 2012 5:11 am
... I wonder if this could be argued as a case of "prophecy historicized," to use Crossan's phrase about the passion-resurrection narrative. Only what we're...
24022
sdavies0
Jan 17, 2012 8:40 pm
... It's always hard to know what to make of stories like Pentecost. I think it's a fiction based on an event, where one shouldn't be surprised to have the...
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Rikk Watts
rikkwatts
Jan 17, 2012 9:34 pm
Stevan, Not to flog a dead horse... but I was wondering if you were considering answering the question about your "criteria";? By way of reminder, in order to...
24024
Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 17, 2012 10:41 pm
... Yes, this was clearly the case in Acts (1:5; 2:38; 8:14-18; 11:16; 19:1-7), but not, apparently, anywhere else-- except for Jesus himself, who...
24025
David Mealand
D.Mealand@...
Jan 18, 2012 1:07 pm
a) Do you think all NT references to experience of the spirit refer to some kind of dissociative state? b) Do you think all NT references to experience of the...
24026
Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Jan 18, 2012 3:41 pm
... Speaking only for myself, I eschew words like "all" in any aspect of Biblical studies. Secondly, I think you are demanding an anachronistic, clinical ...
