Listers, I am very appreciative of the responses to my essay on the orthodox Death Tradition as a misrepresentation of the historical Jesus. They have been ...
19360
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 4, 2005 10:04 pm
... Ernie, with respect to my argument for the cross saying being a post-Easter saying, see my post of 8/3/05 to Jeffrey Gibson. ... I ascribe the innovative...
19359
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 4, 2005 9:49 pm
... I, as perhaps as recalcitrant as I am, still hold to the two document hypothesis, and as I indicated in my essay the Q people are representative of a...
19358
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 4, 2005 9:27 pm
... Tony, you are correct that it is not *inconceivable* that Jesus and his followers were aware of the tradition of martyr-theology. It is also plausible...
19357
Ernest Pennells
pennells@...
Aug 4, 2005 4:36 am
[Ted Weeden] ... political authority, he would most likely have considered the possibility of being stoned. While I do not think the saying is an authentic...
19356
Bob Schacht
r_schacht
Aug 4, 2005 1:06 am
At 09:28 AM 8/3/2005, Theodore Weeden wrote in response to Jeffrey Gibson ... On what grounds? You might be justified in excluding the long "pastoral prayers"...
19355
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 3, 2005 11:49 pm
Loren, I see no indication in Luke of a martrydom theology. But I happen to think the reason we find no atonement theology in Luke is because Luke is writing ...
19354
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 3, 2005 7:28 pm
... To answer your question: methodologically, I begin with those first century Christian texts where Jesus is cited as alluding to or referring directly to ...
19353
Karel Hanhart
hanhartfamily
Aug 3, 2005 6:34 pm
This is a late reply to Ted Weeden's extensive, February 1, argumentation re. Jesus ben Ananias in Josephus' Jewish War (see below). He argued Mark's trial...
19351
robtomd
Aug 3, 2005 3:28 pm
I agree with your basic conclusions, Ted, but I am surprised that you base your argument so heavily on Crossan and Kloppenborg Verbin. For the eucharistic...
19350
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 3, 2005 12:37 pm
correction: also no Lk 22:19b-20 Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:35 AM To: crosstalk2@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [XTalk] Ransom payment and sacrifice ...
19349
Stephen Goranson
goranson11
Aug 3, 2005 12:06 pm
In case it's of interest, here's a link to my new paper (34 pages; 334 kb pdf file), "Jannaeus, His Brother Absalom, and Judah the Essene," on the history and...
19348
Loren Rosson
rossoiii
Aug 3, 2005 11:52 am
Richard, ... Perhaps -- assuming the way you deal with Acts 20:28 is correct. This still leaves open the question of a martrydom theology. Loren Rosson III ...
19347
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 3, 2005 11:35 am
Loren, Luke attributes no saving efficacy to the cross. For Luke, by the power of God, Jesus was resurrected from the dead. No ransom; no sacrifice. Richard...
19346
Loren Rosson
rossoiii
Aug 3, 2005 11:14 am
... Are you equating the concept of ransoming (Mk 10:45/Mt 20:28) with that of sacrifice (Mk 14:22-25/Mt 26:26-29/[Lk 22:19b-20])? The former says that ...
19345
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 3, 2005 12:28 am
Since Stephen Carlson has already answered Loren's question, this is in response to Stephanie Fisher asking in effect my view of Acts 20:28 and Jeffrey B....
19344
Ernest Pennells
pennells@...
Aug 2, 2005 4:38 pm
[Ted Weeden] ... to, self-consciously reflects upon (Gethsemane prayer) his death or, furthermore, imputes purposeful meaning to it are post-Easter...
19343
Steff Seven
adogona
Aug 2, 2005 1:15 pm
Ehrman stands by 26th edition and Metzger: ie the earliest text of Luke 20.28 reads "the church of God which he obtained through the blood of his own (Son)"...
19342
Stephen C. Carlson
scarlson_min...
Aug 2, 2005 1:07 pm
... Acts 20:28 is discussed on pp. 87-88 and 264. He argues that scribes objected to the notion that God has blood and changed to the text to refer to the...
19341
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 2, 2005 12:56 pm
Loren, Ehrman, does cite Acts 20:28 on pages 87-88 and 264. I will read the section tonight after work. Richard H. Anderson ... From:...
19340
Jeffrey B. Gibson
jgibson000
Aug 2, 2005 12:33 pm
... I wonder if it would be helpful that anyone who makes this claim goes on to specify whet he/she means by "salvific";. ... But he does, does he not, link...
19339
Loren Rosson
rossoiii
Aug 2, 2005 11:46 am
... What does Ehrman say about Acts 20:28? Or does he comment? Loren Rosson III Nashua NH http://lorenrosson.blogspot.com/ ...
19338
Richard H. Anderson
randerson58
Aug 2, 2005 11:38 am
Ron Price: dubious assumptions: (3) that the Jerusalem Jesus community interpreted Jesus' death as salvific. I agree. The evidence is very strong that this...
19337
Ron Price
ron18price
Aug 2, 2005 10:12 am
... Ted, This complex solution to a simple question depends on at least three dubious assumptions: (1) that there were post-Easter followers of Jesus in...
19336
Tony Buglass
tonybuglass
Aug 2, 2005 9:12 am
Ted wrote: I find no historically credible evidence that the historical Jesus interpreted and proclaimed his death as having salvific purpose or meaning,...
19335
Jeffrey B. Gibson
jgibson000
Aug 2, 2005 2:42 am
... This raises the question of what in your eyes would constitute such evidence. What is your criteria for determining that possible evidence is to be...
19334
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 2, 2005 1:22 am
... You are right that Greco-Roman and Jewish literature is replete with examples of those who died for a cause and, in so doing, were venerated for their...
19333
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 1, 2005 8:56 pm
... Certainly with respect to the passion predictions that appears to be the case. But with respect to the Last Supper -- where Jesus does impute implicitly,...
19332
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 1, 2005 8:25 pm
... Doug, have you read my essay, and if so, where in my essay do you find my argument suspect or lacking cogency? Ted Weeden...
19331
Theodore Weeden
tjwsr54914
Aug 1, 2005 8:20 pm
... [snip] Bob, you are correct the Markan passion predictions do not contain any salvific interpretation of Jesus' death. But Mk. 10:45 does have Jesus speak...
