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#30 From: wynterw@...
Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] Photos wynter100
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Dear Chrissie

The only photo I have of Mutwa is in the book "Children of the Sun God" by Linda
Tucker. Don't know if you would be able to use something already published?
If you like I can scan it in and email it to you

Many blessings
Wynter

>  from:    "chrissiesteyn200 <steynhc@...>" <steynhc@...>
>  date:    Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:47:24
>  to:      credomutwa@yahoogroups.com
>  subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] Photos
>



Wynter Worsthorne

wynterw@...
http://animaltalk.org.uk

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#29 From: "chrissiesteyn200 <steynhc@...>" <steynhc@...>
Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 7:47 am
Subject: Photos chrissiestey...
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Is there anyone in this group that can provide me with a photograph of
Credo Mutwa? I am writing an article for a journal 'Culture and
religion' on Credo Mutwa and the place where African religion and New
Age thought meet. I will be willing to post a copy of the article on
the website as soon as the edition of the journal has appeared (April
2003). The publishers will of course not appreciate my posting it
before their publication date!
Hoping to hear from somewone soon.

Chrissie Steyn

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#28 From: -Rick- <washingdishes@...>
Date: Sat Oct 5, 2002 7:25 pm
Subject: RE: [Credo Mutwa] credomutwa.co.za tagget54
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A website would be great! At tigertech.net I pay $25 dollars a year for domain name and $7 a month for hosting (American funds). I am not sure what it adds up to in "R"s. I live in Canada.

-Rick-

-----Original Message-----
From: Ramon [mailto:ultraman@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:33 AM
To: credomutwa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Credo Mutwa] credomutwa.co.za

Hi

I had a friend, Jess Miller, recently returned to South Africa from the UK. He wanted to see Credo as well but was turned down because of Credo's health. Jess smoke at length with Credo's "nurse" and she told him something similar. I still want to meet Credo Mutwa by the end of this year. But when his not sick there is something else that prevents him.

I would like to do the website with his blessings and input. I have sufficient material to put together a basic website. I don't think we can expect a flood of information from him on a weekly basis. However, I want him to "certifiy" each and every bit of information on the website since it's about himself after all. This could be a mammoth task as I believe his eyesight has deteriorated over the last several years.

Is there anyone on this group that can assist me financially with the costs for running the website? The domain name cost R300 from my service provider. They have a basic hosting package of R99 per month (and R150 once-off setup) and they have a option for paying 6 months or 12 months upfront with special discounts. I am going to waive my personal fees in this regard.

If you would like to sponsor this website we can make sure you get the necessary advertising space in return for your generousity. Please contact me on +27829407137 or direct email ramon@...

Kind regards

Ramon

-
Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
mailto:info@...
Mobile: +27829407137

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#27 From: "Ramon" <ultraman@...>
Date: Sat Oct 5, 2002 6:32 pm
Subject: RE: [Credo Mutwa] credomutwa.co.za ramonthomas
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I had a friend, Jess Miller, recently returned to South Africa from the UK. He wanted to see Credo as well but was turned down because of Credo's health. Jess smoke at length with Credo's "nurse" and she told him something similar. I still want to meet Credo Mutwa by the end of this year. But when his not sick there is something else that prevents him.

I would like to do the website with his blessings and input. I have sufficient material to put together a basic website. I don't think we can expect a flood of information from him on a weekly basis. However, I want him to "certifiy" each and every bit of information on the website since it's about himself after all. This could be a mammoth task as I believe his eyesight has deteriorated over the last several years.

Is there anyone on this group that can assist me financially with the costs for running the website? The domain name cost R300 from my service provider. They have a basic hosting package of R99 per month (and R150 once-off setup) and they have a option for paying 6 months or 12 months upfront with special discounts. I am going to waive my personal fees in this regard.

If you would like to sponsor this website we can make sure you get the necessary advertising space in return for your generousity. Please contact me on +27829407137 or direct email ramon@...

Kind regards

Ramon

-
Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
mailto:info@...
Mobile: +27829407137

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#26 From: Cathryn McNaughton <cathrynmcnaughton@...>
Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] credomutwa.co.za cathrynmcnau...
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Dear Ramon

Good to know you are still going with supporting of
Credo.  I have learned via the grapevine of my friends
who were visiting Credo with me that he is feeling
much better after his illness although still quite
weak.  He is very elderly after all.

I have a few personal pictures of Credo that I could
share with you for the website if you like.

love
Cathryn

  --- Ramon Thomas <ultraman@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>


<tt>
Hi everyone<BR>
<BR>
I'm on holiday at the moment but I've managed to
secure the domain<BR>
credomutwa.co.za and I will be setting up my own Credo
Mutwa website. I may<BR>
need some help with gather the latest news for Credo
Mutwa. Please keep<BR>
posting news you may find especially from
www.iol.co.za or www.news24.co.za<BR>
and maybe even www.sundaytimes.co.za (very slow
website).<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
Ramon<BR>
<BR>
-<BR>
Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy
Consultants<BR>
<a
href="http://ramonthomas.com">http://ramonthomas.com</a><BR>
mailto:info@...<BR>
Mobile: +27829407137<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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#25 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ultraman@...>
Date: Thu Oct 3, 2002 5:03 am
Subject: credomutwa.co.za ramonthomas
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Hi everyone

I'm on holiday at the moment but I've managed to secure the domain
credomutwa.co.za and I will be setting up my own Credo Mutwa website. I may
need some help with gather the latest news for Credo Mutwa. Please keep
posting news you may find especially from www.iol.co.za or www.news24.co.za
and maybe even www.sundaytimes.co.za (very slow website).

Regards
Ramon

-
Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
mailto:info@...
Mobile: +27829407137

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#24 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ultraman@...>
Date: Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:38 am
Subject: The Scramble for Africa ramonthomas
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I heard this book mentioned briefly on the John Robbie show, 702 Talk Radio,
this week. I'm sending you a positive and negative review of the book from
Amazon.com's user reviews. What I want to know is if anyone has read this
book and if you consider it worth reading. Secondly if you know of any other
interesting books about "Africa's sufferings at the hands of Europeans",
please let me know. My next question would be about Cecil Rhodes' role in
this whole thing. Its a scary thought.  I'm sure Credo Mutwa will have a lot
to say about this.

Visit http://ramonthomas.com/credomutwa/ for more info about Credo Mutwa

Regards
Ramon


The Scramble for Africa: White Man's Conquest of the Dark Continent from
1876 to 1912
by Thomas Pakenham

  Fascinating account, May 11, 2001
Reviewer: Tim Weber (see more about me) from Iowa
Thomas Pakenham's sprawling story of the slicing up of a continent by
European powers is fascinating, well-written, well worth your time. It's
interesting that surprisingly little of the colonization of Africa between
1876 and 1912 came by direct military conquest. No, England, France and
Germany (principally) sank their teeth into the continent mostly in less
direct ways that were just as dismaying. "The Scramble for Africa" presents
a panorama of villains and heroes, both white and black, but paints it with
sufficient shades of gray. Much of what happens is despicable to us today,
but Pakenham helps us understand the whys. The book is not perfect. For
American eyes, Pakenham assumes too much knowledge of British history and
its political system. There are a lot of names to keep track of, and there
is an occasional lack of clarity as to what precisely is going on. Pakenham
also has a curious habit of not always making clear who is being quoted.
Still, this is a strong, well-written, fascinating account of a strange,
exciting period in world history.


  Deceiving, February 9, 2002
Reviewer: Roberto Munguambe (see more about me) from Maputo, Mo�ambique
If you believe Britain made what Africa is today than this is the book for
you. Pakenham portrays the scramble for Africa as a two-player game between
Britain and France, with little attention being paid to the portuguese,
german, italian or spanish presence and interests in the continent. As a
result, Pakenham's book is really a book about the British scramble for
Africa, neglecting some of the most curious cultural and political aspects
of the heterogeneous european presence in Africa. Focused in Britain,
Pakenham also misses the opportunity to explore the reaction of african
cultures to colonial advances and the position of independent african
states. It is therefore a rather poor book and one in which prejudice
against other european colonial powers is too often evident.


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#23 From: Cathryn McNaughton <cathrynmcnaughton@...>
Date: Fri Aug 2, 2002 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] Credo's books and other books cathrynmcnau...
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--- Richard Green <enthousiazo@...> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>

Richard

thanks this is a great lead and makes much more sense
to me than the David Icke stuff.  I have heard Credo
speak about these things and David Icke as well and
somehow they just never quite felt as if coming from
the same place ....Credo's being so much more
mythological.

thanks
Cathryn
<tt>
Raymond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
&gt;I have to mention that I've not read the books
Credo wrote, as mentioned.<BR>
&gt;I've held a copy of Indaba, My Children, in my
hands but didn't buy it. If<BR>
&gt;anyone on this list has read his books, please
send us some comments.<BR>
<BR>
I'm still busy reading Indaba my Children, my intial
thoughts on it are that it is an<BR>
immensly valuable Mythopoetic work. I've yet to get
his other book, I'm looking forward to<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
I'm also reading a very interesting book by Andrew
Collins &quot;From the Ashes of Angels&quot;<BR>
which ties in in some way to the reptilian thing, its
not the usual Icke conspiracy stuff<BR>
(which I'm not really into), its some very good
research on the ancient myth of the<BR>
watchers who are described in the Testament of Amran
(from the dead see scrolls) as having<BR>
&quot;the visages of vipers&quot;<BR>
<BR>
Take a looky if you want to, its chok full of
interesting correlations but from a<BR>
different perspective:<BR>
<BR>
<a
href="http://www.andrewcollins.net/page/books/ashes.htm">http://www.andrewcollin\
s.net/page/books/ashes.htm</a><BR>
<a
href="http://www.andrewcollins.net/page/articles/ashes/ashespreview.html">http:/\
/www.andrewcollins.net/page/articles/ashes/ashespreview.html</a><BR>
<BR>
Best wishes,<BR>
<BR>
Richard.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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#22 From: Cathryn McNaughton <cathrynmcnaughton@...>
Date: Fri Aug 2, 2002 9:29 am
Subject: about Indaba My Children cathrynmcnau...
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Dear All

Ramon asked if any of us have read Indaba, My
Children.  I have in the last few months read it cover
to cover and I say it that way because it is a very
long book.  It is the most wonderful account of so
many of the legends of the Zulu people and also
Credo's personal feelings about his people.  I really
loved his story of Marimba, the goddess of music. It
is so worth reading.  I could hear his voice in every
word.  I did have a personal advantage in that I had
just been with him for over a week.  If the whole book
seems a bit daunting it isn't necessary to read the
whole thing ...some of the stories could be skipped
over (although it would be a shame) and one could just
concentrate on his personal view of things.

I am very much looking forward to reading his next
book.  I actually think it is quite a good thing to
hear that his assistants are protecting him at the
moment.  His health did seem very fragile when I was
there and it seemed that he was doing much too much
and not able to say no to people including us.  I am
really praying for his return to health.  Do keep
calling and giving us a report on how he is doing.

Cathryn



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#21 From: "Richard Green" <enthousiazo@...>
Date: Fri Aug 2, 2002 9:27 am
Subject: Credo's books and other books zao_n
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Raymond wrote:

>I have to mention that I've not read the books Credo wrote, as mentioned.
>I've held a copy of Indaba, My Children, in my hands but didn't buy it. If
>anyone on this list has read his books, please send us some comments.

I'm still busy reading Indaba my Children, my intial thoughts on it are that it
is an
immensly valuable Mythopoetic work. I've yet to get his other book, I'm looking
forward to
it.

I'm also reading a very interesting book by Andrew Collins "From the Ashes of
Angels"
which ties in in some way to the reptilian thing, its not the usual Icke
conspiracy stuff
(which I'm not really into), its some very good research on the ancient myth of
the
watchers who are described in the Testament of Amran (from the dead see scrolls)
as having
"the visages of vipers"

Take a looky if you want to, its chok full of interesting correlations but from
a
different perspective:

http://www.andrewcollins.net/page/books/ashes.htm
http://www.andrewcollins.net/page/articles/ashes/ashespreview.html

Best wishes,

Richard.

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#20 From: "Richard Green" <enthousiazo@...>
Date: Fri Aug 2, 2002 8:54 am
Subject: update n Credo from Icke zao_n
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from: http://davidicke.www.50megs.com/icke/magazine/vol10/announce/credo.html

In response to inquiries about the welfare of Credo Mutwa, the Zulu sanusi or
shaman
featured in The Reptilian Agenda videos, I can tell you that I spoke to him on
the phone
yesterday to South Africa and he is still determined to battle on revealing his
astonishing, and unique, knowledge, despite many problems with his health.

He suffers from diabetes and its related conditions, but he says he is coming to
the end
of the book he is writing for Bridge of Love called The Children of the Serpent.
As soon
as we get his manuscript, we will publish it as quickly as we can.

Credo says that he has come under tremendous pressure not to write the book and
to have
nothing to do with me. Even people he thought were his friends have said this to
him.

But Credo has a phenomenal determination to expose what he knows and he says no
amount of
pressure is going to stop him.

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#19 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ultraman@...>
Date: Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:17 pm
Subject: Raymond Ackerman on Credo Mutwa ramonthomas
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Hi everyone

I'm currently reading a book called "Hearing Grasshoppers Jump" the story of
Raymond Ackerman - the founder of Pick-n-Pay www.picknpay.co.za - a large
retail chain in South Africa.

I was pleasently surprised when I got to page 285 and he mentioned Credo:
"Meanwhile, I began to dread picking up my office telephone because I had
started receiving death threats. It wasn't the first time in my life I had
been threatened, but this time the callers sounded particularly sinister -
people who meant business. Wendy (wife), thoroughly alarmed by the threats
and unsure where to turn, decided to consult the visionary sangoma Credo
Mutwa to see if he could cast any light on the identity of the death-threat
callers. Credo Mutwa had been a controversial person since his books
Indaba, My Children and a sequel, Africa is my Witness - had set out, in his
words, to explain his 'much despised race to the world'. Much of what he has
said remains controversial, but up to now he still commands respect among
disciples of the alternative."

"Credo Mutwa's meditations on what was going on around me produced an image
which, at the time, made no sense whatsoever. He told Wendy that I should
beware of a small Oriental gentleman."

It should be pointed out that Raymond Ackerman is 71 years old. That makes
him +/- 13 years younger then Credo Mutwa. It is rumoured that Credo was
very active during the Apartheid years in what was called the "homelands".
I've not asked him about this, but will make a point of it when I next speak
to him. His assistant tells me that he is still sick and that his doctors
have told him not to take phone calls until his health improves. Right now I
cannot say this is another attempt to block the general public from access
to this great man, I trust it is his best interests to rest and when he is
ready to make contact with the outside world again.

I have to mention that I've not read the books Credo wrote, as mentioned.
I've held a copy of Indaba, My Children, in my hands but didn't buy it. If
anyone on this list has read his books, please send us some comments.

Kind regards
Ramon

-
Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
mailto:info@...
Tel: +27 011 3932576
Fax: +27 011 3932536

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#18 From: -Rick- <washingdishes@...>
Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:52 pm
Subject: Now you can look reptilian!? tagget54
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http://www.lensexpress.com/search/detail.asp?sku=WECE65

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#17 From: yahweh yahweh <yahwehbenyahweh2002@...>
Date: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:27 am
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] Question yahwehbenyah...
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Hello all,
I have set a web page up for all to read and make up their own mind.
It's quite a long read but very well worth it!
http://www.geocities.com/yahwehbenyahweh2002/

Thanks, Ben.

-Rick- <washingdishes@...> wrote:

Hi,

I have been reading David Ickes books. One I found very interesting was the Children of the Matrix. He goes on about Credo and what Credo saw in life. I am not against the idea of it all, but I find this reptilian thing hard to prove in my mind since I have never seen one.

I see movies like the Arrival, They Live and such. They all show how the aliens/reptilians take on human form and live among us. Now I believe this could be possible, but where is the proof? Where's the beef? Wouldn't they be exposed if they were hit and killed by a car. Organs on the road that may not be human.

Does anyone know where I am coming from? President Bush is not one because I have seen pictures of him with a bloody cheek and there was real human blood. Anyhow I am new to this reptilian thing and would sure like to learn a whole lot more.

Thanks

-Rick-

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#16 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ultraman@...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 6:33 pm
Subject: RE: [Credo Mutwa] Question ramonthomas
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Hi Rick

Excellent question. I first found Credo Mutwa through the writings of David
Icke. First on he's website and then in his previous book, The Biggest
Secret. Children of the Matrix is a copy of The Biggest Secret with new
information added from the website. David Icke is not a good writer and
tends to repeat himself over and over.

I've since moved away from David Icke's writings especially after September
11, as there was endless speculations published on www.davidicke.com. I have
spent a lot more time researching Credo Mutwa. I have not watched the video
which they made together, called the Reptillian Agenda, but I think Credo
Mutwa is a much more reliable source then David Icke. I have a friend called
Jess Miller who was attending the lecture by David Icke in 1999 in South
Africa, when he recorded the interview with Credo Mutwa, here in
Johannesburg.

The original reptilian concept on TV was with the cult series V. I was a a
kid when it played on TV in South Africa but remember the bits and pieces I
saw vividely. I also saw some re-runs on sattelite TV in the middle east
during 2000.

I don't think I answered your question, but I'm trying to tell you what I've
learnt. Lets talk about it in more detail if you like.

Regards
Ramon

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#15 From: Yahoo! Reminder <reminders@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:57 pm
Subject: Birthday Reminder reminders@...
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Birthday Reminder from the Calendar of credomutwa

Credo Mutwa's birthday

Sunday July 21, 2002
All Day
This event repeats every year.

Yahoo! Greetings
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#14 From: "ramonthomas" <ultraman@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:59 pm
Subject: Credo's health and birthday ramonthomas
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Hi everyone

I've just spoken to Credo Mutwa's assistant. He had a stroke recently
and he's not doing well health wise. Please pray for him in your own
ways. I wish there was something more we could all do. I have he's
postal address but haven't confirmed it. If you want to try you can
send him a postcard or letter to:

PO Box 428
Laezonia
Pretoria
0026
South Africa

It is also important to note that he will be 81 years old this
Sunday, 21 July 2002. We will remember he's birthday.

Take care
Ramon

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#13 From: -Rick- <washingdishes@...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:37 am
Subject: Question tagget54
Offline
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Hi,

I have been reading David Ickes books. One I found very interesting was the Children of the Matrix. He goes on about Credo and what Credo saw in life. I am not against the idea of it all, but I find this reptilian thing hard to prove in my mind since I have never seen one.

I see movies like the Arrival, They Live and such. They all show how the aliens/reptilians take on human form and live among us. Now I believe this could be possible, but where is the proof? Where's the beef? Wouldn't they be exposed if they were hit and killed by a car. Organs on the road that may not be human.

Does anyone know where I am coming from? President Bush is not one because I have seen pictures of him with a bloody cheek and there was real human blood. Anyhow I am new to this reptilian thing and would sure like to learn a whole lot more.

Thanks

-Rick-

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#12 From: yahweh yahweh <yahwehbenyahweh2002@...>
Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] Re: Credo Mutwa yahwehbenyah...
Offline
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Hi Ramon,

I think this was meant for someone else....

Ramon Thomas <ramon@...> wrote:

Hi Rick Welcome to the Credo Mutwa discussion group. Its always great to have new members. We now have 9 members since 8 March 2002. Please tell us more about yourself. I've been very busy with other things but with two other members I hope to launch my own Credo Mutwa website later this year. Take care Ramon --- -Rick- <washingdishes@...> wrote: > Hi, > > I read about him from David Icke's Matrix book from > the library . I cannot > afford the videos Icke offers, but I am dying to > learn more about the > reptilian connecting. This is why I signed up for > this group. Not here to > argue, just want to learn all that I can. Credo hits > home on more than a few > things. > > -Rick- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ramon Thomas" <ramonthomas@...> > To: <washingdishes@...> > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 7:19 AM > Subject: Credo Mutwa > > > > Hi > > > > Can you please tell me what you know about Credo > Mutwa > > and where you've heard of him first? I need to ask > you > > these questions before approving your subscription > to > > the Credo Mutwa Discussion group. > > > > Thanks > > Ramon Thomas, founder > > > > > > ===== > > Ramon Thomas > > > > Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy > Consultants > > http://ramonthomas.com > > info@... > > > > Netucation for the NationT > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > > > ===== Ramon Thomas Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants http://ramonthomas.com info@... Netucation for the Nation� __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

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#11 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 11:37 am
Subject: Re: Credo Mutwa ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Rick

Welcome to the Credo Mutwa discussion group. Its
always great to have new members. We now have 9
members since 8 March 2002. Please tell us more about
yourself. I've been very busy with other things but
with two other members I hope to launch my own Credo
Mutwa website later this year.

Take care
Ramon

  --- -Rick- <washingdishes@...> wrote: > Hi,
>
> I read about him from David Icke's Matrix book from
> the library . I cannot
> afford the videos Icke offers, but I am dying to
> learn more about the
> reptilian connecting. This is why I signed up for
> this group. Not here to
> argue, just want to learn all that I can. Credo hits
> home on more than a few
> things.
>
> -Rick-
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ramon Thomas" <ramonthomas@...>
> To: <washingdishes@...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 7:19 AM
> Subject: Credo Mutwa
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Can you please tell me what you know about Credo
> Mutwa
> > and where you've heard of him first? I need to ask
> you
> > these questions before approving your subscription
> to
> > the Credo Mutwa Discussion group.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ramon Thomas, founder
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Ramon Thomas
> >
> > Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy
> Consultants
> > http://ramonthomas.com
> > info@...
> >
> > Netucation for the NationT
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
>
>

=====
Ramon Thomas

Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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#10 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:06 am
Subject: Re: credo mutwa ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Wayne

Thanks for your email. I've approved your
subscription. I don't really subscribe to the views of
Rick Martin & David Icke anymore. Specifically the
reptilian theory. I realise there is a form of
"Illuminati" and that I cannot do anything to stop
them from doing what they've been doing for the last
2000 years or more.

Kind regards
Ramon

  --- yahweh yahweh <yahwehbenyahweh2002@...>
wrote: >
> Hi,
>
> I have been reading up on credo now for about two
> weeks ,
>
> I was just wondering what you think of the
> similarity between what is in his interveiw with
> rick martin:
>
> "our people believed,like the dogon people,that
> there are 24 planets in our part of space which are
> inhabited by intelligent creatures of various
> states."
>
> "And,this knowledge has never been recorded in my
> book,and i and my aunt are the only surviving high
> sanusi(shamen) in South Africa who are keepers of
> this knowledge.My aunt is still alive."
>
> "She is about 90-something,and i am now close to
> death suffering from diabetes-a terrible killer of
> Africa people nowadays."
>
> And this article:       you may have to use
> password:    user:= bernard1974  pass:- password1974
>
>
http://www.earthchangestv.com/secure/Breaking_News/June2002/0618paves.htm
>
> Thanks Wayne from leeds UK

=====
Ramon Thomas

Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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#9 From: Cathryn McNaughton <cathrynmcnaughton@...>
Date: Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:46 pm
Subject: hi from Cathryn cathrynmcnau...
Offline
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Ramon asked me to say a little about myself and my
time with Credo.  First of all I am an American who
has lived in England for 20 years.  My background is
as a psychologist but for the last 10 years I have
been a geomancer and earth healer.  I have studied
many shamanistic traditions and have been fortunate
enough to travel all over the world.  I am currently
researching a book on the roots of ritual.

I didn't at all expect to visit South Africa but
through a series of miracles ended up in a very
special small group of healers from Australia who were
having a special time with Credo.  And yes you were
right, Ramon.  Credo is in a period of mourning and
that is why our time with him was even more special
because he really isn't seeing people.  He gives so
much to everyone so unconditionally that I feel that
his time for himself must be protected.  I even felt
at the time that we were intruding somewhat on his
time but we had come so far at his invitation and  he
had things he wanted to say to us.  He absolutely
comes to life when he tells the stories of his people
and storytelling is obviously the most wonderful tonic
for him.  He also threw the bones for me and had many
profound things to say to me about myself and my
future responsibilities in this world.

Since coming home I have read Indaba, My Children and
I can hear Credo's voice in every word.  It is
marvelous.  I gave a talk in London that I will be
writing up for a professional journal and I will post
that if you like when I have done it.  It will be on
the subject of earth energies and earth healing.

I still have not quite understood why I was called to
South Africa but I found the country beautiful and the
people amazing.  I am sure I will be returning.

Cathryn


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#8 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:13 am
Subject: Re: [Credo Mutwa] FW: Proud of SA.... ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Clement

Thanks for this amazing email. I only got around to
reading it today. I'm going to email it to all my
friends and I will also be putting it on my website.
I'm sure Credo would agree with most of what is being
said in this email.

Kind regards
Ramon

  --- "Makholwa, Clement" <Clement.Makholwa@...>
wrote: >


=====
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Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
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#7 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: Credo Mutwa ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Richard

Welcome to the Credo Mutwa Discussion group. Please
feel free to post any questions and any articles about
Credo Mutwa you may find out the internet.

If you've not been here please visit:
http://ramonthomas.com/credomutwa/ and give me some
feedback.

Thanks
Ramon, moderator

  --- Richard Green <enthousiazo@...> wrote: >
Hello Ramon
>
> I'm busy reading Indaba my children, and I've read a
> few interviews. I live in Cape Town
> and I'm always interested in discussing the subjects
> he shares. I have an interest in
> Shamanism (of all cultures) and since I live in S.A
> its appropriate that I know about the
> spirits of this land, to do less would be ignorant
> and IMO impolite.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Richard.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ramon Thomas <ramonthomas@...>
> To: <enthousiazo@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 1:34 PM
> Subject: Credo Mutwa
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Before I approve your subscription to the Credo
> Mutwa
> > discussion group, can you briefly tell me what you
> > know about him? Also where you are from.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ramon Thomas, moderator
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Ramon Thomas
> >
> > Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy
> Consultants
> > http://ramonthomas.com
> > info@...
> >
> > Netucation for the NationT
>
>

=====
Ramon Thomas

Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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#6 From: "Makholwa, Clement" <Clement.Makholwa@...>
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:43 am
Subject: FW: Proud of SA.... Clement.Makholwa@...
Send Email

Hi all,

Just something to think about....

Joy

********************************

Below is a speech I gave the other night. It went down so well with the
audience that a number of people asked me for copies of it. So
I thought I may as well share it with other people too so they can
spread the message, especially those living overseas and those
who care about spreading a positive message about South Africa. "I
pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and
  to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

Many years ago I was an exchange student in the USA, and every morning
in my school, as in all schools across America, all classes
came to a halt as the Pledge of Allegiance came over the loudspeaker
system and every student stood to repeat these words.

I was quite amazed by this display of daily brainwashing in so-called
"land of the free". But in hindsight it isn't actually that amazing,
because
we've all experienced how Americans are just so proud to be American. No
matter how big their problems, and heaven knows they've got a lot of
them, Americans will still spend hours telling you how fantastic their
country is, and in fact, how it is better than, pretty much anywhere
else in
the world.

What a contrast then, when I later spent a few years in London and I
ended up actively avoiding other South Africans. Why? Because frankly
their negativity about our homeland irritated me so much. These people
who will gladly put new South African flags on their cars and support a
whole cottage industry importing biltong and NikNaks to munch on as they
cheer on the Springboks at Twickenham, will spend hours telling anyone
who will listen just how awful it is in South Africa, how lucky they are
to be in London and how they are never going back because it's in such a
mess. At the time I put it down to the fact that they were justifying
why they were holed up in their dingy little flats under grey London
skies while their friends and family enjoyed the sunshine on Camps Bay
beach. However, when I came home,expecting to be greeted by the smiles
of new South Africans everywhere, I was very disappointed to find that
exactly the same attitude is pervasive right here. The number of people,
who asked me why I came back here and why on earth I had brought my
French wife with me, simply amazed me. I would have thought the answer
was perfectly obvious.

I was later very disturbed, although not surprised, to hear that our
president found it necessary to make a point to South African
businessmen
that they should stop running down their own country on overseas
business trips. Can anyone tell me what it is that makes sense about
running down your own home to foreign people that you would like to
visit here and invest here?

It seems to me like inviting your boss to dinner at your house in the
hope of getting a promotion but discouraging him from coming because
you're a terrible cook and your dog bites. Yes, we have problems, but so
does everybody else. Sure, the Rand is down the toilet, but if you look
closely enough, you'll see that just about every other emerging market
country has suffered from the same woes - and that includes Australia
and New Zealand, which everyone seems in such a rush to get to. And
aren't we lucky that we aren't living in Argentina with their currency
crisis? Sure, our neighbour, Zimbabwe, is run by a mad, despotic fool,
but man am I glad that I'm not a Pakistani.  We have AIDS and we also
have an army of people trying to find a cure for it  - possibly more
vigorously than anywhere else since we have the most to lose from it. We
do have corruption, and the Americans have George W. Bush, whether they
like it or not. We've got all sorts of problems, yes, but must we be so
hard on ourselves? In many ways we are far better off in South Africa as
a whole than we have been at any time in our history.

Our people are getting educated and housed at a world-beating rate, we
have amongst the world's cheapest electricity, our inflation is the
lowest it's been in my lifetime, we have an economic growth rate and
there is development everywhere you look.

  We have so much going for us; we have so many good people, such an
interesting mix of cultures; we have so much beautiful countryside and
natural resources that we can draw from - we really have such a bright
future ahead of us. Let us concentrate on the positive things that
surround
us every day, the sunshine, the people, the beauty, and the progress.
Constantly criticizing our country can only do harm for you personally,
your
personal feeling of happiness and well-being and for the country that
you know from the bottom of your heart that you love, otherwise you
wouldn't be here.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you, do not run down South Africa,
neither at home nor overseas. Become ambassadors for your country.
Welcome foreign guests and point out how far we have come and how far
we're going to go how they need to watch out for us on the world stage.
And if you're overseas on business or holiday (if you can afford it),
tell people how much South Africa has going for it and invite them to
come and see for themselves.

I have devised my own pledge of allegiance and I'd like to repeat it to
you now :

  "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Republic of South Africa and to
the interesting people, places and idiosyncrasies for which it stands,
one
nation under several religions, languages and cultures, yet indivisible,
with freedom, basic needs and progress for all."

That is my pledge of allegiance to my home, our home. I pledge to help
others see what is so good about it.

Our Beloved Country !!! South Africa, almost alone amongst emerging
market economies, is set to escape virtually unscathed from the latest
bout of investor panic sweeping the developing world's fragile economies
(The Times, London, August 2001)

The SA banking sector has been consistently ranked in the top 10 in
terms of competitiveness (IMD, Switzerland).  When Nelson Mandela was
inaugurated President in 1994, SA was insolvent (liabilities exceeded
assets).

Today the Government's deficit is negligible - one of only a handful of
countries in this position. We've had single digit inflation since 1993
-
following 20 years of double-digit inflation.

Mortgage rates are at their lowest level since 1988.

South Africa is one of only 12 countries, where we can drink water from
a tap. Our tap water was found to be the 3rd best quality in the entire
world.

Remember 15 years ago, in 1986:

A state of emergency was declared.
White men did two years compulsory military service *
64 184 black people were removed from "white areas" *
3989 people were detained without trial *
Our economic growth rate was 0.7 percent - today it is 3% *
64 countries had sports boycotts against SA!!!

South African wines win international awards every year and we have the
longest wine route in the world.
Nelson Mandela, an international icon of forgiveness, tolerance, and
humanity is our favourite son.
The Kruger Park has the most innovative management of a national park
anywhere in the world - and is the world's most profitable game park.
Eskom is the largest producer of coal-fired electricity in the world and
South Africans pay the least for electricity in the world.
South African Breweries is the 2nd largest brewer in the world and
produces over 50% of China's beer!

Mercedes Benz C Class, BMW 3 Series and VW Golf/Jetta vehicles for all
right-hand drive markets throughout the world are produced in South
Africa.
Didata grew from a local IT service provider into a huge, global
networking company with branches in 30 countries.
The Cape Peninsula has more species of plants here per hectare than any
other area of the world.

Magnificent highways, warm, friendly, vibrant rainbow people. The
world's most progressive Constitution Kreepy Kraulies - a South African
invention - Mrs Ball's chutney and biltong. The world's best looking
population.

"Leader's deal in hope - I give many speeches nearly daily and I talk
about positives. Many have forgotten the Kasspirs and guns - its
paradise now in comparison."
"I've got four children and ten grandchildren and we are staying right
here". Raymond Ackerman, CEO Pick 'n Pay.

"For every guy who holds up a gun, there are 99 who hold out a hand of
friendship" - Dennis Beckett, journalist.

This is something I've never done, but after reading this, all I ask
from you is to send this on, to your friends, family and others. Let us
in this
way deal with our negatives and let us try to be positive. By being
positive we can continue to go far in life and we can all strive for a
better and
more positive life and country.

Regards to you all, peace, and positive thinking - that's the way to go!

Regards
DOUGLAS REED
Managing Director
DataPro


Just to add to Douglas Reed's excellent article I would like to urge
everyone reading this mail to get the latest copy TIME magazine with
President Thabo Mbeki on the cover and I challenge you to find an
article which speaks more positively about South Africa (or any African
country for that matter) elsewhere as we know how negatively villaneous
the international media like us to appear.

Clement Makholwa.

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#5 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Credo Mutwa ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Cathryn

I've already approved your subscription. Please send
email to credomutwa@yahoogroups.com and tell us all
about your experience with Credo Mutwa. If you don't
mind also fill us in on your background and where you
are from? The other 4 members are all from South
Africa.

You are definately correct about Credo Mutwa needing
sincere support. I'm just curious how you met with
April because I've been in telephonic contact with him
telephonically and he told me he is unable to see
anyone while he is in morning for some family members
who died during the last 6 months.

> Dear Ramon
>
> I found this while doing an internet search and
> thought it would be good to have an exchange with
> like
> minded people.  In April I spent 10 days as part of
> a
> small group of healers studying with Credo in his
> home
> outside Jo'burg.  It was a wonderful experience.  I
> am
> also wondering what is the experience of the other
> members of this group.  My feeling was that Credo
> can
> use some "sincere" support.
>
> thanks
> Cathryn
> >


=====
Ramon Thomas

Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
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#4 From: Ramon Thomas <ramon@...>
Date: Fri Jun 7, 2002 6:25 pm
Subject: credomutwa.co.za ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi Haydn

Can you please investigate the domain credomutwa.co.za
for me. Here is the link from Uniforum:
http://co.za/cgi-bin/whois.sh?Domain=credomutwa.co.za

I would like to try and register this domain if Robin
e Villiers defaults on the payment. Please bill Ramon
Thomas Enteprises for this domain.

Thanks!
Ramon


=====
Ramon Thomas

Ramon Thomas Enterprises - Internet Strategy Consultants
http://ramonthomas.com
info@...

Netucation for the Nation�

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
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#3 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ramon@...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 2:21 pm
Subject: you may be interested ramonthomas
Offline
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http://www.geocities.com/stevebanhegyi/interests.htm

Hi CRiSTo contact me directly on 0829407137 after hours for more
information. Alternatively buy the latest copy of Noseweek and check the
backpage. www.noseweek.co.za

To join the Credo Mutwa mailing list send blank email to
credomutwa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Kind regards
Ramon

-
Ramon Thomas
http://ramonthomas.com/personal

F - FALSE
E - EVIDENCE
A - APPEARING
R - REAL

______________________________________________
"The information contained in this communication is confidential and
may be legally privileged.  It is intended solely for the use of the
individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to
receive it.  If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action
in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful.  Absa is neither liable for the proper, complete
transmission of the information contained in this communication, any
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#2 From: "Motau, Tshepo" <Tshepo.Motau@...>
Date: Tue May 7, 2002 5:54 am
Subject: RE: welcome! Tshepo.Motau@...
Send Email

Hi Ramon

I apologise for taking so long to reply, its been hectic for me. I would
very much like to be part of the site. I've seen the dot com site which
is not up an running. The coza site(if you can call it that)is just a
picture hanging around.

There is a lot that can be done but I just want to find out if you have
come up with the layout. My understanding is that this is a site
dedicated to Credo Mutwa, but what would be the context of the whole
theme, i.e prophesies, interviews, the universe, conspiracies etc.

Have you found out if this guy is willing to sell the site? Perhaps we
should just come up with another way of wording "Credo Mutwa" should the
prize taq be too much.

I truly want to be involved with the site from inception to its day to
day running.

Please let me now what part I can play in the making of this site.


Kind regards
Tshepo

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#1 From: "Ramon Thomas" <ramon@...>
Date: Thu May 2, 2002 12:31 pm
Subject: welcome! ramonthomas
Offline
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Hi

This is the first message ever to the Credo Mutwa group. I'd like to extend
my sincerest welcomes to Clement and Tshepo, whom besides me are the first
new members of the group.

I wanted to know if you guys are prepared to help with the website. If you
can, how do you propose? As you know the website is currently on Geocities,
which is free and full of ads. I'd love to get a proper domain name and move
the website there.

I checked the following:
credomutwa.co.za and credomutwa.com is owned by Robin de Villiers,
rob@... or (011) 708-1293

I have spoken to Credo Mutwa personally about this and according to him
these websites don't have his blessings. We should look into this more
extensively. Perhaps he would be willing to sell credomutwa.com because only
credomutwa.co.za has a website associated with the name.

Sincerely
Ramon
-
Ramon Thomas     mailto:ramont@...
Information Security Specialist - Group IT
Tel. +2711-3504994
Fax. +2711-3506339
http://www.absa.co.za

"When a dog bites you, you don't ask for its name or who the owner is, you
scream and kick it away . . . We must fight AIDS not even questioning where
it comes from." - Traditional healer Credo Mutwa.
http://www.credomutwa.co.za

______________________________________________
"The information contained in this communication is confidential and
may be legally privileged.  It is intended solely for the use of the
individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to
receive it.  If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action
in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful.  Absa is neither liable for the proper, complete
transmission of the information contained in this communication, any
delay in its receipt or that the mail is virus-free."

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