We're wrapping up the Foundations of Communities of Practice workshop this
week and Romi Rancken shared this:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lXh2n0aPyw

Would that all of our efforts on behalf of communities of practice actually
make people have more fun!

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

I am presenting a free lecture in San Francisco on Thu, Nov. 19,
1-2pm, and would like help getting the word out. It's to help people
who are free agents succeed in this economy. I will be telling the
story of my own consultancy, which includes a CoP-oriented approach to
business development. I am happy to share more and provide a flyer.
Just send me an email offline: Seth@...

Thanks to those who joined me in my earlier teleconference, where I
covered the community of CEOs I am developing in DC. This lecture on
the 19th will include mention of how I am building communities in
three areas to help me with my business development:
1. Bringing entrepreneurs and freelancers together online
2. Building a community of CEOs in Washington, DC
3. Using this approach to launch my book, Getting Change Right: How
Leaders Transform Organizations from the Inside Out, May 2010.

love to see you face-to-face,
Seth
--

Seth Kahan
President
Performance Development Group, Inc.
Box 380
Glen Echo, MD 20812
web: VisionaryLeadership.com
email: Seth@...
tel: 301-229-2221
fax: 301-229-6661

Helping Leaders Get Change Right

author, Fast Company blog, Leading Change.
author, Building Beehives: Creating Communities that Generate Returns
next book, May 2010: Getting Change Right: How Leaders Transform their
Organizations from the Inside Out
author, transformation from the inside out, Getting Change Right
author, the art of success for freelancers & free agents, freelance
fortune

designated:
Visionary, Center for Association Leadership
Thought-leader and Exemplar in Change Leadership, Society for
Advancement of Consulting®
Million Dollar Consultant® Hall of Fame
Associate, Taos Institute
Distinguished Fellow, Center for Narrative Studies

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You're invited to join us!  It's co-sponsored by SCOPE.  Details here:

  http://cpsquare.org/wiki/Visiting_Cloudworks_November_16_2009

and here:

  http://cpsquare.org/2009/11/virtual-field-trip-to-cloudworks/

Show up at 20:00 GMT on November 16, 2009.  The emphasis we place on field
trips in CPsquare could be illuminated by a quote from Jerome Bruner (I
think):

  "We are more likely to act our way into a new way of thinking than think
our way into a new way of acting."

Therefore close observation of the way communities act is more useful than
unending debate about what they're doing or what they are.

Cheers!

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

I have been doing work in the not-for-profit arena with a variety of CoP between
organizations that were funded by foundation grants to get them started.  Now,
especially in light of the economy, the grants are coming to an (some after 2
years, another after 3.5 years, one after 5 years)

I would love to get your input on how you have managed a similar situation.

a) how to make the case for more funding for an external facilitation to bring
organizations together
b) how to help a community transition to not having the support it had -
minimalist ways of staying connected e.g. delicious? listserv? what have you
tried?
c) if a community wants to shut down - how to create a legacy?

I welcome hearing more from you.

Naava
www.knowledgecommunities.org

Hi Naava,

This seems to be a real and recurrent situation (in non-profit as well as in
profit). The sponsor/donor may loose interest, but the community wants to
continue.

I think it is good to keep this in mind from the beginning, eg. think through
the way you grow the community and leadership carefully from two ways: a
(heavily) sponsored way and a low-budget way. This is true for the leadership
and for the infrastructure. For instance, when you use ning (www.ning.com) there
is a perfect solution: you can continue for free by allow for advertisements
again.

I think the group that looked at communities of practice in international
development also looked at this issue. You may find their report through the
wiki or through this link
http://www.ruter.nl/files/Cultivating_CoPs_in_Development_FinalReport_June2007.p\
df

Cheers, Joitske

--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "naava_frank" <naava@...> wrote:
>
> I have been doing work in the not-for-profit arena with a variety of CoP
between organizations that were funded by foundation grants to get them started.
Now, especially in light of the economy, the grants are coming to an (some after
2 years, another after 3.5 years, one after 5 years)
>
> I would love to get your input on how you have managed a similar situation.
>
> a) how to make the case for more funding for an external facilitation to bring
organizations together
> b) how to help a community transition to not having the support it had -
minimalist ways of staying connected e.g. delicious? listserv? what have you
tried?
> c) if a community wants to shut down - how to create a legacy?
>
> I welcome hearing more from you.
>
> Naava
> www.knowledgecommunities.org
>

I'm getting ready for CPsquare's research and dissertation fest that starts
on Monday.  A comment in Etienne Wenger's essay (which kicks off the
discussions) makes me think of many conversations that we've had here on
com-prac.  After talking about the problems that result when "a community of
practice" becomes a "design intention" or a "prescribed process", Etienne
goes on to say:

"Note that practitioners also have their own critique from the other side.
They find the concept good in theory, but difficult to apply in practice.
Communities of practice still do not fit very easily within traditional
hierarchical organization. Cultivating communities of practice and creating
an organizational context in which they can flourish is difficult within
these organizations. Many "designed" communities of practice fail or die
early. The concern is that their informality and the difficulty to measure
their value lets them fall through the cracks and lose priority. The word
"community" itself sometimes arouses suspicion of clubs or unfocused groups.
A manager declared that a series of self-organized groups sounded too much
like chaos. And it is indeed difficult to find the right balance between
enough formality to give them legitimacy in the organization and enough
informality to let them be peer-oriented, self-governed learning
partnerships."

Cultivating communities IS harder than it sounds, don't you agree?

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

<snip>

>
> Cultivating communities IS harder than it sounds, don't you agree?
>
Yes.  I remember a comment in one of Etienne's workshops: "We set up these
communities, but almost invariably they diverge from our Ministry goals"

I have a problem (challenge) here that I have been working on, and I was
trying to find some information about Michael Kami's work on the net.  (He
has a very small internet footprint)

This was some "Wit and Wisdom" on his website:
http://www.mikekami.com/wisdom.html#target2
A short extract:

Don't Empower Dummies
Executives are continuously bombarded with advice to cut levels of
reporting, to create a flat organization, to push decision-making down to
the grass roots, to reduce the organizational pyramid, to empower the lower
levels, to let groups and teams become self-directed, self-sufficient and
self-governed. That sounds like excellent advice. It would lift morale,
increase productivity, speed up throughput, improve quality, stimulate
creativity, increase volume of sales and raise profitability.

There is, however, an inherent, big danger in doing all the above. The big
question is: are your people at the lower levels of the organization capable
of self-government, self-reliance, correct and creative decision making?
Find out first, before you empower people who may be without proper
knowledge and without proper ability. They may not be capable to take on
additional responsibility and perform additional and often difficult new
tasks. You may be creating a major headache instead of a major improvement.
Does it mean that cutting organizational levels and empowering down the line
is wrong? Absolutely not! It's definitely the thing to do. In today's
global, competitive environment, we must speed up decision-making, actions
and programs, we must bolster quality and morale and, thus, be able to
provide better products and services.

Yes, the business/community model is difficult to marry.
-Derek

>
> John
> * John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
> * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
> * The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
> * "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Derek,

One thing that I think is an obstacle to our success is convincing ourselves
that "the other side" is wrong.  Last week I was giving a talk about
technology stewardship around webinars.  Even though I was speaking with
conviction about "doing webinars differently from the norm" it occurred to
me to talk about why they are as they are.  It turned out to be a really
positive move.

If I were defending "things as they are" I would have to say that "dummies
are dummies for good reason," although the label "dummies" kinda turns me
off.

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

Hi All

I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a marketing
link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand that nobody is
that interested in talking about.



  Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where I'm
struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very lack of
traffic makes them hard to hunt down.



I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to make a
point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come" mentality
falling flat.



Thanks in advance



Sam

Director

ClearBox Consulting



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All
I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a marketing link
e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand that nobody is that
interested in talking about.

  Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where I'm
struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very lack of
traffic makes them hard to hunt down.

I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to make a point
in a presentation about the "build it and they will come" mentality falling
flat.

Thanks in advance

Sam
Director
ClearBox Consulting

Dear friends,
I am writing to share with you about a unique social knowledge network -
Kenlighten http://www.kenlighten.com .
At Kenlighten you can register for a free account and create online
tutorials in your area of expertise by uploading your ebooks,
presentations, articles, videos, audio files. You can also use the
Kenlighten Presentation tool to make online presentations.  Further, you
can create online communities, network with other members and learn from
other members.
So do visit http://www.kenlighten.com and subscribe for your free
account. And yes, do not forget to invite your friends, family and
acquaintances who you think will benefit by joining Kenlighten and being
connected to you.
Regards,
Uma



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sam

This may not exactly be the example you are seeking but for me "We Are
Smarter <http://www.wearesmarter.org>  " is  very instructive.

If you recall the project was announced at the launch of MIT's Center
for Collective Intelligence (MIT CCI) late 2006:
http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html

The project had impressive sponsors including MIT CCI, the Wharton
School and Pearson Publishing as well as the commercial entity, then
Shared Insights, that became Mzinga.
See the Wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me

The ambition was great:  crowdsource and co-create a book about how "We
are Smarter than Me".

The Wikipedia entry provides the participation statistics that begin to
tell the story:

     * 4375 Registered Members
     * 737 forum posts
     * 250 wiki contributors
     * 1600 wiki posts
I've heard Tom Malone, MIT CCI director explain how ultimately 6 writers
had to be hired to write the book.  What the "We are Smarter" team
hadn't factored in was the facilitation needed to engage the diverse and
best talent, and generate the content in a way that would emerge as  an
efficiently co-created product.

For me "We are Smarter" has significant lessons for any company/brand
wishing to engage  customers current or potential. It goes beyond  your
"build it and they will come"" mentality falling flat" to the importance
of ensuring clear purpose, doing the work to ensure the goal can be
fulfilled and value created through open engagement.

~ Jenny Ambrozek
SageNet LLC  &  21st Century Organization  <http://c21org.typepad.com>
blog
Twitter @sagenet


--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "sam2marshall" <sam@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a
marketing link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand
that nobody is that interested in talking about.
>
>  Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where
I'm struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very
lack of traffic makes them hard to hunt down.
>
> I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to
make a point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come"
mentality falling flat.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Sam
> Director
> ClearBox Consulting
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jenny

Many thanks for your reply - that's a fascinating example of the limits on
crowd sourcing. I remember a KM community, AOK, also tried to get members to
collectively write a book. Lots of people expressed an interest, but few
wanted to do the grunt work of taking it from ideas to an actual product.
For the same reason, I think there's a lesson in this for the social media \
Web 2.0 enthusiasts that argue we can do away with management inside
organisations.



Best

Sam

Twitter: @sammarshall







From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 November 2009 08:55
To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cp] Digest Number 2164




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xMjU5Mzk4NDc0> Communities of Practice


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1a.

Re: Examples of ghost town communities From: meryla


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1a.



<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/message/8316;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZW5sYnNuBF
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Posted by: "meryla"
<mailto:jenny@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Examples%20of%20ghost%20town%20
communities> jenny@...    <http://profiles.yahoo.com/meryla> meryla


Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:46 am (PST)




Sam

This may not exactly be the example you are seeking but for me "We Are
Smarter < <http://www.wearesmarter.org> http://www.wearesmarter.org> " is
very instructive.

If you recall the project was announced at the launch of MIT's Center
for Collective Intelligence (MIT CCI) late 2006:
  <http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html> http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html

The project had impressive sponsors including MIT CCI, the Wharton
School and Pearson Publishing as well as the commercial entity, then
Shared Insights, that became Mzinga.
See the Wikipedia entry
  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me

The ambition was great: crowdsource and co-create a book about how "We
are Smarter than Me".

The Wikipedia entry provides the participation statistics that begin to
tell the story:

* 4375 Registered Members
* 737 forum posts
* 250 wiki contributors
* 1600 wiki posts
I've heard Tom Malone, MIT CCI director explain how ultimately 6 writers
had to be hired to write the book. What the "We are Smarter" team
hadn't factored in was the facilitation needed to engage the diverse and
best talent, and generate the content in a way that would emerge as an
efficiently co-created product.

For me "We are Smarter" has significant lessons for any company/brand
wishing to engage customers current or potential. It goes beyond your
"build it and they will come"" mentality falling flat" to the importance
of ensuring clear purpose, doing the work to ensure the goal can be
fulfilled and value created through open engagement.

~ Jenny Ambrozek
SageNet LLC & 21st Century Organization < <http://c21org.typepad.com>
http://c21org.typepad.com>
blog
Twitter @sagenet

--- In  <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> com-prac@yahoogroups.com,
"sam2marshall" <sam@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a
marketing link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand
that nobody is that interested in talking about.
>
> Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where
I'm struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very
lack of traffic makes them hard to hunt down.
>
> I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to
make a point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come"
mentality falling flat.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Sam
> Director
> ClearBox Consulting
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sam,

In contrast, folks associated with another km group (knowledgeboard) did
actually write a book. Two in fact.

Again I think the workload was a little uneven. You need a really strong
anchor/editor/facilitator for these projects.

Wikipedia has developed a strong (too strong???) core of editors but in many
organisations these numbers don't scale down well.

I believe you generally need some mix of emergence and control. Rarely one or
the other.

Btw going back to the original question, the tribalization of business survey
from last year had some painful examples (including one on toilet paper if I
recall)...

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:45 PM, "Sam Marshall" <sam@...>
wrote:

Hi Jenny

Many thanks for your reply - that's a fascinating example of the limits on
crowd sourcing. I remember a KM community, AOK, also tried to get members to
collectively write a book. Lots of people expressed an interest, but few
wanted to do the grunt work of taking it from ideas to an actual product.
For the same reason, I think there's a lesson in this for the social media \
Web 2.0 enthusiasts that argue we can do away with management inside
organisations.

Best

Sam

Twitter: @sammarshall

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1a.

Re: Examples of ghost town communities From: meryla

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1a.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/message/8316;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZW5sYnNuBF
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communities

Posted by: "meryla"
<mailto:jenny@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Examples%20of%20ghost%20town%20
communities> jenny@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/meryla> meryla

Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:46 am (PST)

Sam

This may not exactly be the example you are seeking but for me "We Are
Smarter < <http://www.wearesmarter.org> http://www.wearesmarter.org> " is
very instructive.

If you recall the project was announced at the launch of MIT's Center
for Collective Intelligence (MIT CCI) late 2006:
<http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html> http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html

The project had impressive sponsors including MIT CCI, the Wharton
School and Pearson Publishing as well as the commercial entity, then
Shared Insights, that became Mzinga.
See the Wikipedia entry
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me

The ambition was great: crowdsource and co-create a book about how "We
are Smarter than Me".

The Wikipedia entry provides the participation statistics that begin to
tell the story:

* 4375 Registered Members
* 737 forum posts
* 250 wiki contributors
* 1600 wiki posts
I've heard Tom Malone, MIT CCI director explain how ultimately 6 writers
had to be hired to write the book. What the "We are Smarter" team
hadn't factored in was the facilitation needed to engage the diverse and
best talent, and generate the content in a way that would emerge as an
efficiently co-created product.

For me "We are Smarter" has significant lessons for any company/brand
wishing to engage customers current or potential. It goes beyond your
"build it and they will come"" mentality falling flat" to the importance
of ensuring clear purpose, doing the work to ensure the goal can be
fulfilled and value created through open engagement.

~ Jenny Ambrozek
SageNet LLC & 21st Century Organization < <http://c21org.typepad.com>
http://c21org.typepad.com>
blog
Twitter @sagenet

--- In <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> com-prac@yahoogroups.com,
"sam2marshall" <sam@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a
marketing link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand
that nobody is that interested in talking about.
>
> Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where
I'm struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very
lack of traffic makes them hard to hunt down.
>
> I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to
make a point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come"
mentality falling flat.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Sam
> Director
> ClearBox Consulting
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All,

I read recently that Tom Davenport said, "The absence of participative
technologies in the past is not the only reason that organizations and expertise
are hierarchical."  (see Steward Mader's blog
http://www.ikiw.org/2009/10/06/how-much-can-enterprise-2-0-change-the-way-we-wor\
k/)  This was in the context that social networking tools are going to make
hierarchies go away in organizations.  Good for him for saying the obvious – the
tools are not going to change organizations that much, as those of us know who
went from memos on typewriters, newsletters and meetings to email, intranets and
networking.  It is what we are doing that will make a big change and what is now
done with social networking seems rather thin and over-reaching much/some of the
time.  As Matt points out, it works if you have a 'strong facilitator' (code for
hierarchy I think) in the social network.  It may actually be a different sort
of hierarchy I suspect from the formal variety we encounter in face-to-face
organizations.

Best regards,

Bill Proudfit

--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, Matt Moore <innotecture@...> wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> In contrast, folks associated with another km group (knowledgeboard) did
actually write a book. Two in fact.
>
> Again I think the workload was a little uneven. You need a really strong
anchor/editor/facilitator for these projects.
>
> Wikipedia has developed a strong (too strong???) core of editors but in many
organisations these numbers don't scale down well.
>
> I believe you generally need some mix of emergence and control. Rarely one or
the other.
>
> Btw going back to the original question, the tribalization of business survey
from last year had some painful examples (including one on toilet paper if I
recall)...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:45 PM, "Sam Marshall" <sam@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jenny
>
> Many thanks for your reply - that's a fascinating example of the limits on
> crowd sourcing. I remember a KM community, AOK, also tried to get members to
> collectively write a book. Lots of people expressed an interest, but few
> wanted to do the grunt work of taking it from ideas to an actual product.
> For the same reason, I think there's a lesson in this for the social media \
> Web 2.0 enthusiasts that argue we can do away with management inside
> organisations.
>
> Best
>
> Sam
>
> Twitter: @sammarshall
>
> From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 28 November 2009 08:55
> To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cp] Digest Number 2164
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYjdyazcxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE
> 1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQM
> xMjU5Mzk4NDc0> Communities of Practice
>
> Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
>
> 1a.
>
> Re: Examples of ghost town communities From: meryla
>
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> Message
>
> 1a.
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/message/8316;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZW5sYnNuBF
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> VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Re: Examples of ghost town
> communities
>
> Posted by: "meryla"
> <mailto:jenny@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Examples%20of%20ghost%20town%20
> communities> jenny@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/meryla> meryla
>
> Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:46 am (PST)
>
> Sam
>
> This may not exactly be the example you are seeking but for me "We Are
> Smarter < <http://www.wearesmarter.org> http://www.wearesmarter.org> " is
> very instructive.
>
> If you recall the project was announced at the launch of MIT's Center
> for Collective Intelligence (MIT CCI) late 2006:
> <http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html> http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html
>
> The project had impressive sponsors including MIT CCI, the Wharton
> School and Pearson Publishing as well as the commercial entity, then
> Shared Insights, that became Mzinga.
> See the Wikipedia entry
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me
>
> The ambition was great: crowdsource and co-create a book about how "We
> are Smarter than Me".
>
> The Wikipedia entry provides the participation statistics that begin to
> tell the story:
>
> * 4375 Registered Members
> * 737 forum posts
> * 250 wiki contributors
> * 1600 wiki posts
> I've heard Tom Malone, MIT CCI director explain how ultimately 6 writers
> had to be hired to write the book. What the "We are Smarter" team
> hadn't factored in was the facilitation needed to engage the diverse and
> best talent, and generate the content in a way that would emerge as an
> efficiently co-created product.
>
> For me "We are Smarter" has significant lessons for any company/brand
> wishing to engage customers current or potential. It goes beyond your
> "build it and they will come"" mentality falling flat" to the importance
> of ensuring clear purpose, doing the work to ensure the goal can be
> fulfilled and value created through open engagement.
>
> ~ Jenny Ambrozek
> SageNet LLC & 21st Century Organization < <http://c21org.typepad.com>
> http://c21org.typepad.com>
> blog
> Twitter @sagenet
>
> --- In <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> com-prac@yahoogroups.com,
> "sam2marshall" <sam@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> > I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a
> marketing link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand
> that nobody is that interested in talking about.
> >
> > Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where
> I'm struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very
> lack of traffic makes them hard to hunt down.
> >
> > I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to
> make a point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come"
> mentality falling flat.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Sam
> > Director
> > ClearBox Consulting
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Back to top
>
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Sam and Jenny,

I think this Clay Shirky's talk has some nice insights about emergence and
openness and "incomplete contracts".

http://gov2summit.blip.tv/file/2591940/

The fallacy of "build it and they will come" is often about an incomplete
contract that's somehow incorrect.  He talks about how press releases about a
wiki really took the oxygen out of an initiative.

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

Matt, Bill and John
many thanks for your replies, some great thoughts!

Sam

Well, as the late Peter Drucker pointed out repeatedly over a span of many
years, organizations can't function without some kind of authority system and
authority systems are inevitably hierarchical in nature.  (So, too, in my
experience, are people.)

Fred Nickols
nickols@...

--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "proudfit_bill" <bill.proudfit@...> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I read recently that Tom Davenport said, "The absence of participative
technologies in the past is not the only reason that organizations and expertise
are hierarchical."  (see Steward Mader's blog
http://www.ikiw.org/2009/10/06/how-much-can-enterprise-2-0-change-the-way-we-wor\
k/)  This was in the context that social networking tools are going to make
hierarchies go away in organizations.  Good for him for saying the obvious – the
tools are not going to change organizations that much, as those of us know who
went from memos on typewriters, newsletters and meetings to email, intranets and
networking.  It is what we are doing that will make a big change and what is now
done with social networking seems rather thin and over-reaching much/some of the
time.  As Matt points out, it works if you have a 'strong facilitator' (code for
hierarchy I think) in the social network.  It may actually be a different sort
of hierarchy I suspect from the formal variety we encounter in face-to-face
organizations.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill Proudfit
>
> --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, Matt Moore <innotecture@> wrote:
> >
> > Sam,
> >
> > In contrast, folks associated with another km group (knowledgeboard) did
actually write a book. Two in fact.
> >
> > Again I think the workload was a little uneven. You need a really strong
anchor/editor/facilitator for these projects.
> >
> > Wikipedia has developed a strong (too strong???) core of editors but in many
organisations these numbers don't scale down well.
> >
> > I believe you generally need some mix of emergence and control. Rarely one
or the other.
> >
> > Btw going back to the original question, the tribalization of business
survey from last year had some painful examples (including one on toilet paper
if I recall)...
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:45 PM, "Sam Marshall" <sam@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jenny
> >
> > Many thanks for your reply - that's a fascinating example of the limits on
> > crowd sourcing. I remember a KM community, AOK, also tried to get members to
> > collectively write a book. Lots of people expressed an interest, but few
> > wanted to do the grunt work of taking it from ideas to an actual product.
> > For the same reason, I think there's a lesson in this for the social media \
> > Web 2.0 enthusiasts that argue we can do away with management inside
> > organisations.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > Twitter: @sammarshall
> >
> > From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]
> > Sent: 28 November 2009 08:55
> > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [cp] Digest Number 2164
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYjdyazcxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE
> > 1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQM
> > xMjU5Mzk4NDc0> Communities of Practice
> >
> > Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
> >
> > 1a.
> >
> > Re: Examples of ghost town communities From: meryla
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcHRpNjVjBF9TAz
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> >
> > Message
> >
> > 1a.
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/message/8316;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZW5sYnNuBF
> > 9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BG1zZ0lkAzgzMTYEc2
> > VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Re: Examples of ghost town
> > communities
> >
> > Posted by: "meryla"
> > <mailto:jenny@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Examples%20of%20ghost%20town%20
> > communities> jenny@ <http://profiles.yahoo.com/meryla> meryla
> >
> > Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:46 am (PST)
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > This may not exactly be the example you are seeking but for me "We Are
> > Smarter < <http://www.wearesmarter.org> http://www.wearesmarter.org> " is
> > very instructive.
> >
> > If you recall the project was announced at the launch of MIT's Center
> > for Collective Intelligence (MIT CCI) late 2006:
> > <http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html> http://cci.mit.edu/launchPR.html
> >
> > The project had impressive sponsors including MIT CCI, the Wharton
> > School and Pearson Publishing as well as the commercial entity, then
> > Shared Insights, that became Mzinga.
> > See the Wikipedia entry
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Smarter_Than_Me
> >
> > The ambition was great: crowdsource and co-create a book about how "We
> > are Smarter than Me".
> >
> > The Wikipedia entry provides the participation statistics that begin to
> > tell the story:
> >
> > * 4375 Registered Members
> > * 737 forum posts
> > * 250 wiki contributors
> > * 1600 wiki posts
> > I've heard Tom Malone, MIT CCI director explain how ultimately 6 writers
> > had to be hired to write the book. What the "We are Smarter" team
> > hadn't factored in was the facilitation needed to engage the diverse and
> > best talent, and generate the content in a way that would emerge as an
> > efficiently co-created product.
> >
> > For me "We are Smarter" has significant lessons for any company/brand
> > wishing to engage customers current or potential. It goes beyond your
> > "build it and they will come"" mentality falling flat" to the importance
> > of ensuring clear purpose, doing the work to ensure the goal can be
> > fulfilled and value created through open engagement.
> >
> > ~ Jenny Ambrozek
> > SageNet LLC & 21st Century Organization < <http://c21org.typepad.com>
> > http://c21org.typepad.com>
> > blog
> > Twitter @sagenet
> >
> > --- In <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> com-prac@yahoogroups.com,
> > "sam2marshall" <sam@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All
> > > I'm looking for some examples of ghost town communities with a
> > marketing link e.g. discussion forums set up around a product or brand
> > that nobody is that interested in talking about.
> > >
> > > Ideally I want a site that hasn't been taken down and that's where
> > I'm struggling because whilst I'm sure that such sites exist, their very
> > lack of traffic makes them hard to hunt down.
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to name and shame any companies here, I just want to
> > make a point in a presentation about the "build it and they will come"
> > mentality falling flat.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > Sam
> > > Director
> > > ClearBox Consulting
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Back to top
> >
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> > groups/S=1705542024:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1259405675/L=/B=1qPgHEPDhFs-/J=1259398475
> > 211040/K=bXLKdT.uZteJy7bN4hGYtQ/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http:/searchmar
> > keting.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b
> > =50> Drive customers
> >
> > With search ads
> >
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> >
> > Yahoo! Groups
> >
> > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h06h3kp/M=493064.12016283.13564723.8674578/D=
> > groups/S=1705542024:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1259405675/L=/B=16PgHEPDhFs-/J=1259398475
> > 211040/K=bXLKdT.uZteJy7bN4hGYtQ/A=5741393/R=0/SIG=11m8njht2/*http:/advision.
> > webevents.yahoo.com/mentalhealthzone> Mental Health Zone
> >
> > Bi-polar disorder
> >
> > Find support
> >
> > Need to Reply?
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> > Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily
> > Digest.
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzg1N29vBF9TAzk3Mz
> > U5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3
> > RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Create New Topic |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac;_ylc=X3oDMTJjb2dnNXA0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE
> > 1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwBHN0aW1lAzE
> > yNTkzOTg0NzU-> Visit Your Group on the Web
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJla2RtN2g2BF9TAz
> > k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3
> > MEc3RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Messages |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbXFkZGUwBF9TAzk3M
> > zU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzB
> > HN0aW1lAzEyNTkzOTg0NzU-> Files |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMTRtaWhyBF9TAzk3
> > MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QE
> > c3RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Photos |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYTljb3U2BF9TAzk3M
> > zU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzB
> > HN0aW1lAzEyNTkzOTg0NzU-> Links |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJja2NwOXJ2BF9TAz
> > k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBH
> > N0aW1lAzEyNTkzOTg0NzU-> Database |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc3Z2N2pzBF9TAzk3M
> > zU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzB
> > HN0aW1lAzEyNTkzOTg0NzU-> Polls |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbjYyZGR2BF9TAzk
> > 3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnM
> > Ec3RpbWUDMTI1OTM5ODQ3NQ--> Members |
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcWxyazZhBF9TAz
> > k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbA
> > RzdGltZQMxMjU5Mzk4NDc1> Calendar
> >
> > *-- The email forum on communities of practice --*
> >
> > MARKETPLACE
> >
> > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14k1chv0h/M=493064.13814333.13821539.13298430/D
> > =groups/S=1705542024:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1259405675/L=/B=06PgHEPDhFs-/J=1259398
> > 475211040/K=bXLKdT.uZteJy7bN4hGYtQ/A=5922843/R=0/SIG=11ckn2mo6/*http:/advisi
> > on.webevents.yahoo.com/green/> Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for
> > green living
> >
> > _____
> >
> > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kgcrj2i/M=493064.13814537.13821737.10835568/D
> > =groups/S=1705542024:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1259405675/L=/B=1KPgHEPDhFs-/J=1259398
> > 475211040/K=bXLKdT.uZteJy7bN4hGYtQ/A=5922843/R=0/SIG=11ckn2mo6/*http:/advisi
> > on.webevents.yahoo.com/green/> Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for
> > green living
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaWhiNTIxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzO
> > TY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjU5Mzk4NDc1>
> > Yahoo! Groups
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYTNuYm9lBF9TAzk3Mz
> > U5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBH
> > N0aW1lAzEyNTkzOTg0NzU-> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> > Change settings via email:
> > <mailto:com-prac-normal@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Indiviua
> > l%20Email> Switch delivery to Individual |
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> > mat:%20Traditional> Switch format to Traditional
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcnVscDBiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE
> > 1BGdycElkAzEzOTY1NjkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMDI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQM
> > xMjU5Mzk4NDc1> Visit Your Group | <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use |
> > <mailto:com-prac-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > Unsubscribe
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> > =2164/stime=1259398474/nc1=4025373/nc2=3848644/nc3=5741393>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I'm working with a client that would like to learn about titles used in your
CoPs for Leadership?  For example, Executive Director, Key Opinion Leader, etc. 
The position will be primarily be a volunteer role (10 hours per month) for a
private closed network where they will embody the inquiry, help define the
community learning agenda and review cultivation plans.



Your input is appreciated.



Lauren Klein


Lauren Klein
www.laurenklein.net
www.peeledapart.com
www.communityofpractice.info
775.336.8204 (mobile)
Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already
mastered, you will never grow. - Ralph Waldo Emerson





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
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ID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In my experience in healthcare, Lauren, the fewer titles the better, especially
for volunteer and in-kind roles, as lack of a formal title makes it easier for
the incumbent to facilitate processes and build community without being
perceived to be directive.

John Parboosingh MB FRCSC
Professor Emeritus, University of Calgary
Consultant, Community Learning

Mailing address: 146 Rundle Crescent, Canmore,
Alberta, Canada  T1W 2L6
Phone (403) 609-3321
Fax: (403) 609-3371
Email address: parboo@...


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Lauren Klein
   To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:18 PM
   Subject: [cp] Seeking titles for Community of Practice Leaders





   I'm working with a client that would like to learn about titles used in your
CoPs for Leadership? For example, Executive Director, Key Opinion Leader, etc.
The position will be primarily be a volunteer role (10 hours per month) for a
private closed network where they will embody the inquiry, help define the
community learning agenda and review cultivation plans.

   Your input is appreciated.

   Lauren Klein

   Lauren Klein
   www.laurenklein.net
   www.peeledapart.com
   www.communityofpractice.info
   775.336.8204 (mobile)
   Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already
   mastered, you will never grow. - Ralph Waldo Emerson


   __________________________________________________________
   Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
  
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=P\
ID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lauren,

Is your client's intention to give the volunteer an important sounding
title to make up for the fact that they will not be compensated?  Or
perhaps is it that since it's a Leadership CoP they want to designate
the leader with a title to reinforce the purpose of the community?
Perhaps the title "Subject Matter Expert" would work, if the leader is
supposed to be a source of answers.  One thing I would be sensitive to
is giving the volunteer a too-important sounding title (like Executive
Director), because it might cause others to assume that he/she is
supposed to do all the work or answering...which kind of defeats the
purpose for having a community.  Most communities tend to use milder
sounding titles like moderator, facilitator or coordinator.

Best wishes,
Kaye Vivian

<http://roi-learning.com/images/stationery/ROI-Banner-Verne-650x95.jpg>

   <http://digitalstationery.com/images/transparent.gif>
<http://digitalstationery.com/images/transparent.gif>



D. Verne Morland
Managing Partner
(937) 434-3267

   <http://digitalstationery.com/images/transparent.gif>

All,

I've used the term "Community Champion" in many of the business communities
that I have set up and nurtured over the last 10-12 years.  This seems to me
to be a nice term since it does not carry the heavy managerial connotations
of terms like "Executive Director" and it does not suggest the
responsibility of answering all questions, like "Subject Matter Expert."  I
think that it has an informal, ex-officio sound that keeps the focus on the
community.  (I could also suggest a term like "Community Organizer," but
that has a very special connotation in the US today...   ;-)

That said, I should stress that this name (or any other name) is not what I
would consider a key success factor.  Some of the communities I've started
have worked because the people who volunteered for this position really
wanted to do it while others may have volunteered for other reasons
(politics, visibility, feeling pressured, etc.) and did not subsequently
behave like someone who was really interested in the community's success.

I believe that words, like titles, are important, but what is more important
is that the people who fill those positions really do see the value of the
community and personally dedicate themselves to making the community a
satisfying and productive experience for all of its members.  Actions always
speak louder than words.


Regards,

<http://roi-learning.com/images/stationery/ROI-Verne_Morland-Signature.jpg>
Verne Morland
Managing Partner
ROI Learning Services


We put the earn in Learning!T



ROI Learning Services     624 Enid Avenue     Kettering, Ohio 45429 USA
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verne@...     phone: (937) 434-3267
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   _____

From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kaye Vivian
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:26 AM
To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cp] Re:Seeking titles for Community of Practice Leaders





Hi Lauren,

Is your client's intention to give the volunteer an important sounding
title to make up for the fact that they will not be compensated? Or
perhaps is it that since it's a Leadership CoP they want to designate
the leader with a title to reinforce the purpose of the community?
Perhaps the title "Subject Matter Expert" would work, if the leader is
supposed to be a source of answers. One thing I would be sensitive to
is giving the volunteer a too-important sounding title (like Executive
Director), because it might cause others to assume that he/she is
supposed to do all the work or answering...which kind of defeats the
purpose for having a community. Most communities tend to use milder
sounding titles like moderator, facilitator or coordinator.

Best wishes,
Kaye Vivian







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have used 2 titles.

Either leader or coordinator.

The role is more reliant on organising, facilitating and passion than
about subject matter expertise so some of the titles yot mentioned
would not fit our situation.


On 12/6/09, Lauren Klein <kleinlauren@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm working with a client that would like to learn about titles used in your
> CoPs for Leadership?  For example, Executive Director, Key Opinion Leader,
> etc.  The position will be primarily be a volunteer role (10 hours per
> month) for a private closed network where they will embody the inquiry, help
> define the community learning agenda and review cultivation plans.
>
>
>
> Your input is appreciated.
>
>
>
> Lauren Klein
>
>
> Lauren Klein
> www.laurenklein.net
> www.peeledapart.com
> www.communityofpractice.info
> 775.336.8204 (mobile)
> Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already
> mastered, you will never grow. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=P\
ID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Thanks

Cory Banks

Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/corza/
Blog: http://corzandeffect.wordpress.com/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23752831/Community-Engagement-for-the-Public-S\
ector
<http://www.scribd.com/doc/23752831/Community-Engagement-for-the-Public-\
Sector>

The field of community engagement is experiencing rapid movement and
change, particularly within the public sector. Increasing use of social
media to reach the community, recognition of the need to incorporate
social inclusion and risk management are all important considerations in
the development of any community engagement initiative. One of the
biggest challenges facing practitioners is positioning themselves as an
effective medium between the public sector organisations they represent
and the communities they serve.

Cultivating these relationships successfully often hinges on knowing the
needs and requirements of both parties, cutting through the spin and
tailoring the message and the medium to each individual situation.

This two-day connected forum will aid this process by highlighting the
new opportunities and challenges facing those looking at community
engagement, public participation and social inclusion within all three
tiers of government, and suggest how to:
ƒƒ Craft projects that meet the needs of a diverse range of
constituents,
both internally and externally
ƒƒ Encourage your community to take a greater role in the
services provided by government
ƒƒ Harness the potential of new tools for engagement,
particularly socialmedia
ƒƒ Look at community projects from a different angle to derive
maximum benefit for both parties
ƒƒ Plan for the future and increase public confidence and
organisational buy in through improved techniques



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lauren,

What would the leaders in those CoPs WANT for a title?  Sometimes in a
conversation you can get a feel for the title that would be most gratifying
-- and that's the title you'd want to use.

Another thing that occurs to me is that there could be a generational aspect
here.  Depending on how old the person is, different titles might suggest
themselves or make sense.

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake


-----Original Message-----
From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Cory Banks
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:10 PM
To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cp] Seeking titles for Community of Practice Leaders

We have used 2 titles.

Either leader or coordinator.

The role is more reliant on organising, facilitating and passion than
about subject matter expertise so some of the titles yot mentioned
would not fit our situation.


On 12/6/09, Lauren Klein <kleinlauren@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm working with a client that would like to learn about titles used in
your
> CoPs for Leadership?  For example, Executive Director, Key Opinion Leader,
> etc.  The position will be primarily be a volunteer role (10 hours per
> month) for a private closed network where they will embody the inquiry,
help
> define the community learning agenda and review cultivation plans.
>
>
>
> Your input is appreciated.
>
>
>
> Lauren Klein
>
>
> Lauren Klein
> www.laurenklein.net
> www.peeledapart.com
> www.communityofpractice.info
> 775.336.8204 (mobile)
> Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already
> mastered, you will never grow. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?oc
id=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Thanks

Cory Banks

Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/corza/
Blog: http://corzandeffect.wordpress.com/


------------------------------------

*-- The email forum on communities of practice --*Yahoo! Groups Links

"Community host"? Used to be a likely concept.

We use plain "moderator". On other projects we've used something that could be
translated as "Council member". I've seen some named "trek guide".

The cultural setting and the relationship between volunteers and organisation
would seem to be key for deciding :-).



________________________________
De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de John
David Smith
Enviado el: lunes, 07 de diciembre de 2009 2:47
Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: RE: [cp] Seeking titles for Community of Practice Leaders



Lauren,

What would the leaders in those CoPs WANT for a title? Sometimes in a
conversation you can get a feel for the title that would be most gratifying
-- and that's the title you'd want to use.

Another thing that occurs to me is that there could be a generational aspect
here. Depending on how old the person is, different titles might suggest
themselves or make sense.

John
* John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter: smithjd
* Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
* The book: http://bit.ly/DigitalHabitats by Wenger, White, & Smith
* "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." - William Blake

-----Original Message-----
From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Cory Banks
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:10 PM
To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [cp] Seeking titles for Community of Practice Leaders

We have used 2 titles.

Either leader or coordinator.

The role is more reliant on organising, facilitating and passion than
about subject matter expertise so some of the titles yot mentioned
would not fit our situation.

On 12/6/09, Lauren Klein
<kleinlauren@...<mailto:kleinlauren%40hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> I'm working with a client that would like to learn about titles used in
your
> CoPs for Leadership? For example, Executive Director, Key Opinion Leader,
> etc. The position will be primarily be a volunteer role (10 hours per
> month) for a private closed network where they will embody the inquiry,
help
> define the community learning agenda and review cultivation plans.
>
>
>
> Your input is appreciated.
>
>
>
> Lauren Klein
>
>
> Lauren Klein
> www.laurenklein.net
> www.peeledapart.com
> www.communityofpractice.info
> 775.336.8204 (mobile)
> Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already
> mastered, you will never grow. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?oc
id=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Thanks

Cory Banks

Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/corza/
Blog: http://corzandeffect.wordpress.com/

------------------------------------

*-- The email forum on communities of practice --*Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Fred, Bill & All
I'm intrigued that both your posts commented on a need for hierarchy (and I'm
inclined to agree).

I'm hearing lots of presentations recently about Work2.0, Enterprise 2.0 etc.
that are advocating flat, networked organizations that make 'management'
redundant. Euan Semple's recent blog post is one example I saw recently, though
I wouldn't particularly single Euan out in this
(http://euansemple.squarespace.com/theobvious/2009/11/8/the-bbc-enterprise-20-an\
d-management-bollocks.html)

So I'd be interested on the thoughts of this group about what's going on. Are
the Work2.0 folk extolling a new Gen Y sentiment that we've seen work within
CoPs and could work more widely? Should we embrace *leadership* but challenge
management control?

Best
Sam




--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <nickols@...> wrote:
>
> Well, as the late Peter Drucker pointed out repeatedly over a span of many
years, organizations can't function without some kind of authority system and
authority systems are inevitably hierarchical in nature.  (So, too, in my
experience, are people.)
>
> Fred Nickols
> nickols@...
>
> --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "proudfit_bill" <bill.proudfit@> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I read recently that Tom Davenport said, "The absence of participative
technologies in the past is not the only reason that organizations and expertise
are hierarchical."  (see Steward Mader's blog
http://www.ikiw.org/2009/10/06/how-much-can-enterprise-2-0-change-the-way-we-wor\
k/)  This was in the context that social networking tools are going to make
hierarchies go away in organizations.  Good for him for saying the obvious – the
tools are not going to change organizations that much, as those of us know who
went from memos on typewriters, newsletters and meetings to email, intranets and
networking.  It is what we are doing that will make a big change and what is now
done with social networking seems rather thin and over-reaching much/some of the
time.  As Matt points out, it works if you have a 'strong facilitator' (code for
hierarchy I think) in the social network.  It may actually be a different sort
of hierarchy I suspect from the formal variety we encounter in face-to-face
organizations.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bill Proudfit
> >

IMHO a community is not a productive organisation (*). It can be part of it, or
a part of several, but they are different beasts.

- community leaders are not neccesarily organizational leaders. Organizational
leadership has to do with projects, goals and resources (which require targets
and control); community with guiding dialogue and hosting the conversation. Some
overlapping (community projects) are common but not neccesary.

- leadership in a community is therefore either thought leadership,
hosting-moderation, or project-work group management. Parts of that are
traditional management. Parts are new.

- organizational leadership requires formal authority (as it often deals with
somebody else's resources, requires personal responsibility for results, and
wields and coercitive authority to take people to task) whereas in communities
leadership is usually emergent, almost self-appointed, and related to the
voluntary willingness to shoulder work (and works by moral suasion, shared
vision, and enablement).

So "Work 2.0" is closer to home than some think... while substantially different
from yesteryear's. More an addition than an evolution.

Or at least that is how I see it. Best regards,

Miguel

(* - Productive organisation would be that which takes some inputs, including
time, and produces outputs, meanwhile adding and capturing value in a very clear
and divisible way).



________________________________
De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de
sam2marshall
Enviado el: lunes, 07 de diciembre de 2009 13:38
Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [cp] Hierarchy vs networks in orgs (was Examples of ghost town
communities)



Hi Fred, Bill & All
I'm intrigued that both your posts commented on a need for hierarchy (and I'm
inclined to agree).

I'm hearing lots of presentations recently about Work2.0, Enterprise 2.0 etc.
that are advocating flat, networked organizations that make 'management'
redundant. Euan Semple's recent blog post is one example I saw recently, though
I wouldn't particularly single Euan out in this
(http://euansemple.squarespace.com/theobvious/2009/11/8/the-bbc-enterprise-20-an\
d-management-bollocks.html)

So I'd be interested on the thoughts of this group about what's going on. Are
the Work2.0 folk extolling a new Gen Y sentiment that we've seen work within
CoPs and could work more widely? Should we embrace *leadership* but challenge
management control?

Best
Sam

--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>, "Fred"
<nickols@...> wrote:
>
> Well, as the late Peter Drucker pointed out repeatedly over a span of many
years, organizations can't function without some kind of authority system and
authority systems are inevitably hierarchical in nature. (So, too, in my
experience, are people.)
>
> Fred Nickols
> nickols@...
>
> --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>,
"proudfit_bill" <bill.proudfit@> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I read recently that Tom Davenport said, "The absence of participative
technologies in the past is not the only reason that organizations and expertise
are hierarchical." (see Steward Mader's blog
http://www.ikiw.org/2009/10/06/how-much-can-enterprise-2-0-change-the-way-we-wor\
k/) This was in the context that social networking tools are going to make
hierarchies go away in organizations. Good for him for saying the obvious - the
tools are not going to change organizations that much, as those of us know who
went from memos on typewriters, newsletters and meetings to email, intranets and
networking. It is what we are doing that will make a big change and what is now
done with social networking seems rather thin and over-reaching much/some of the
time. As Matt points out, it works if you have a 'strong facilitator' (code for
hierarchy I think) in the social network. It may actually be a different sort of
hierarchy I suspect from the formal variety we encounter in face-to-face
organizations.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bill Proudfit
> >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I find Miguel´s comments insightful and appropiate in terms of making
distinctions between community leaders and organizational leaders.  I also
believe, that some type of management is needed for effective coordinated action
to take place but do not agree with those that equate "managing" with being
"hierachical".  Also, in relation to authority, it can be formal or informal. 
Formal authority can more easilya adopt a hierarchical expression but those at
the bottomo of a hierarchy, so to speak, can also have "informal" authority, ie.
influence what others think and do despite, for example, their official position
in an organizational structure.  A "strong" facilitator to me, means a good
facilitator, not a hierarchical figure but what who supports others in reaching
their goals.  And yes, change needs to be driven by someone or many, it won´t
happen alone.

________________________________
From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Cornejo Castro, Miguel
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:57 AM
To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cp] Hierarchy vs networks in orgs (was Examples of ghost town
communities)



IMHO a community is not a productive organisation (*). It can be part of it, or
a part of several, but they are different beasts.

- community leaders are not neccesarily organizational leaders. Organizational
leadership has to do with projects, goals and resources (which require targets
and control); community with guiding dialogue and hosting the conversation. Some
overlapping (community projects) are common but not neccesary.

- leadership in a community is therefore either thought leadership,
hosting-moderation, or project-work group management. Parts of that are
traditional management. Parts are new.

- organizational leadership requires formal authority (as it often deals with
somebody else's resources, requires personal responsibility for results, and
wields and coercitive authority to take people to task) whereas in communities
leadership is usually emergent, almost self-appointed, and related to the
voluntary willingness to shoulder work (and works by moral suasion, shared
vision, and enablement).

So "Work 2.0" is closer to home than some think... while substantially different
from yesteryear's. More an addition than an evolution.

Or at least that is how I see it. Best regards,

Miguel

(* - Productive organisation would be that which takes some inputs, including
time, and produces outputs, meanwhile adding and capturing value in a very clear
and divisible way).

________________________________
De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>] En nombre
de sam2marshall
Enviado el: lunes, 07 de diciembre de 2009 13:38
Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
Asunto: [cp] Hierarchy vs networks in orgs (was Examples of ghost town
communities)

Hi Fred, Bill & All
I'm intrigued that both your posts commented on a need for hierarchy (and I'm
inclined to agree).

I'm hearing lots of presentations recently about Work2.0, Enterprise 2.0 etc.
that are advocating flat, networked organizations that make 'management'
redundant. Euan Semple's recent blog post is one example I saw recently, though
I wouldn't particularly single Euan out in this
(http://euansemple.squarespace.com/theobvious/2009/11/8/the-bbc-enterprise-20-an\
d-management-bollocks.html)

So I'd be interested on the thoughts of this group about what's going on. Are
the Work2.0 folk extolling a new Gen Y sentiment that we've seen work within
CoPs and could work more widely? Should we embrace *leadership* but challenge
management control?

Best
Sam

--- In
com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:com-prac%40ya\
hoogroups.com>, "Fred" <nickols@...> wrote:
>
> Well, as the late Peter Drucker pointed out repeatedly over a span of many
years, organizations can't function without some kind of authority system and
authority systems are inevitably hierarchical in nature. (So, too, in my
experience, are people.)
>
> Fred Nickols
> nickols@...
>
> --- In
com-prac@yahoogroups.com<mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:com-prac%40ya\
hoogroups.com>, "proudfit_bill" <bill.proudfit@> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I read recently that Tom Davenport said, "The absence of participative
technologies in the past is not the only reason that organizations and expertise
are hierarchical." (see Steward Mader's blog
http://www.ikiw.org/2009/10/06/how-much-can-enterprise-2-0-change-the-way-we-wor\
k/) This was in the context that social networking tools are going to make
hierarchies go away in organizations. Good for him for saying the obvious - the
tools are not going to change organizations that much, as those of us know who
went from memos on typewriters, newsletters and meetings to email, intranets and
networking. It is what we are doing that will make a big change and what is now
done with social networking seems rather thin and over-reaching much/some of the
time. As Matt points out, it works if you have a 'strong facilitator' (code for
hierarchy I think) in the social network. It may actually be a different sort of
hierarchy I suspect from the formal variety we encounter in face-to-face
organizations.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bill Proudfit
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure what you mean by management becoming "redundant."  In the sense
that it duplicates (or attempts to duplicate) mechanisms already in place it has
been redundant for many years now, especially in relation to the performance of
people in the workplace.

The much talked about and wrestled with "shift to knowledge work" was actually a
shift in the mix of working activities for many people.  All work is some mix of
prefigured or "canned" routines and configured or "crafted" responses.  For most
people for much of the last century, work consisted mainly of prefigured or
"canned" routines.  Beginning in the 1920s and proceeding apace through the
1980s, the mix of work began to be dominated by configured or "crafted"
responses.  A great deal of the work that was previously dominated by "canned"
routines has been automated, mechanized or off-shored.  We are left, then, with
a situation in which much of the remaining work and most of the work that
matters is performed by people who, by and large, determine for themselves how
best to realize the results for which they are accountable.  Moreover, in many
cases, they report to people who couldn't do their work if their lives depended
on it.  Yet, all this occurs in the context of the same old hierarchical system
of authority that has been with us for thousands and thousands of years.  And it
ain't gonna go away.

So, we are stuck as it were with two realities: (1) the nature of work and
working - indeed, the locus of control over those two - has undergone a deep and
fundamental change and (2) we have with us still a hierarchical system of
authority.  How then to reconcile the two?

For my money, the reconciliation point - also the leverage point - is what Peter
Drucker called "the practice of management."  There is - in all organizations
and across all organizations - a practice area known as "management" - and it is
at the heart of that shadowy, dimly visible CoP that has as its members those
who view themselves as part of the community of managers.  For many years now,
that community of practice has been focused on codifying and disseminating the
practice of management - the neglect of advancing that practice.  It is time for
that community to shift its focus from capture and dissemination to a focus on
advancing the practice.

If as the evidence suggests, only the employees who perform the work are truly
in control of it, how do managers manage in that context?  If workers control
the work, how do managers obtain useful, valuable results on a reliable, ongoing
basis?  (I happen to think there are lots of avenues open but that's a matter
for a different day because, frankly, it doesn't matter what I think; what
matters is what managers think.)

Is the hierarchy going to go away?  No.  Nor should it.  There are ways to
obtain meaningful, valuable contributions from employees in a hierarchical
system - and ways that don't impede performance; indeed, they facilitate and
support it.  But the practice of management will have to undergo a major
overhaul before they are widespread.  And, last time I looked, it was the
members of a CoP who control a practice.

The issue, then, is how to get managers to reexamine the practice of management.

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Managing Partner
Distance Consulting, LLC
nickols@...
www.nickols.us

"Assistance at a Distance"



--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "sam2marshall" <sam@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Fred, Bill & All
> I'm intrigued that both your posts commented on a need for hierarchy (and I'm
inclined to agree).
>
> I'm hearing lots of presentations recently about Work2.0, Enterprise 2.0 etc.
that are advocating flat, networked organizations that make 'management'
redundant. Euan Semple's recent blog post is one example I saw recently, though
I wouldn't particularly single Euan out in this
(http://euansemple.squarespace.com/theobvious/2009/11/8/the-bbc-enterprise-20-an\
d-management-bollocks.html)
>
> So I'd be interested on the thoughts of this group about what's going on. Are
the Work2.0 folk extolling a new Gen Y sentiment that we've seen work within
CoPs and could work more widely? Should we embrace *leadership* but challenge
management control?
>
> Best
> Sam
>
>
>
>
> --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <nickols@> wrote:
> >
> > Well, as the late Peter Drucker pointed out repeatedly over a span of many
years, organizations can't function without some kind of authority system and
authority systems are inevitably hierarchical in nature.  (So, too, in my
experience, are people.)
> >
> > Fred Nickols
> > nickols@