Mark,

Was there any indication of fiber, or was it just L-carrier?  The route I
mentioned earlier, crossing I-95 WNW of Waldorf, is L-carrier replaced with
fiber.  So if the route you saw in Waldorf had no fiber, we may be looking
at two different routes.

...Albert

Message text written by INTERNET:coldwarcomms@onelist.com
>I have briefly visited Waldorf and I can assertain there is at least one
>L Carrier cable running due west from Waldorf through the little shopping
>center across the street.  The cable marking post were still there in late
98.

At 01:55 PM 5/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
>
>Mark,
>
>Was there any indication of fiber, or was it just L-carrier?  The route I
>mentioned earlier, crossing I-95 WNW of Waldorf, is L-carrier replaced with
>fiber.  So if the route you saw in Waldorf had no fiber, we may be looking
>at two different routes.
>
>...Albert

I was only there for a brief time (someone else was driving and I was on
business), but the
age and style of the cable markers was circa 1970's.  My driver had pulled
into the shopping center (small) just
west of the Waldorf facility and I saw the markers at the edge of the
parking lot.  They looked very old.  I do not
remember if there were fiber cable warnings on the poles.

George,

When looking at an underground cable route, the first thing I try to do is
determine if it's for local or long-distance service.  In general, the
copper-pair distribution cables which connect local telco customers to
their central office are *not* interesting unless the customer itself is;
e.g. the Bell Atlantic line serving Mt. Weather.  The distribution lines
often run along roads, since that's where the customers are, and are
connected to junction-box pedestals at frequent intervals.

In some neighborhoods, the copper cables may not go all the way from the
individual customers' premises to the CO.  Instead, they go to a roadside
cabinet containing interface equipment, which multiplexes the lines onto a
fiber-optic cable extending back to the CO.

Around here, the older distribution lines are often marked by small metal
signs with the Bell logo, the words "Cable Route", and arrows, attached to
short steel posts.  Before it was broken up, AT&T (the Bell System) owned
most of the local telcos, so both local and long-distance markers of a
certain vintage may have some version of the Bell logo.

Newer local telco markers are sometimes tall, flat metal or fiberglass
stakes, like fence pickets, or plastic poles like those used for
long-distance.  Their distinguishing feature is that they have the name of
the local telco (Bell Atlantic, Bell South, etc. or an independent) rather
than a long-distance carrier.

Some things I consider as making a cable route worthy of further
investigation:

(1) Any signs indicating ownership by a major long-distance carrier,
especially AT&T or MCI.

(2) AT&T "Transcontinental [Coaxial] Cable Route" signs.  These usually
mark the L-carrier routes.  As far as I know, all L-carrier systems are
dead, but the cable very likely goes to interesting places.  Some of the
marker posts may also have fiber-optic signs, indicating the route has been
converted to fiber and is probably still active.

(3) Any cable which runs cross-country, rather than along a roadway.

(4) Signs giving the name and local number of an AT&T bunker as a point of
contact.

As to whether a cable is civilian or military, I think a lot of the
long-distance fiber routes serve both purposes.  Of course, a dedicated
cable to a defense-related site is always worth checking out.

I don't know whether the L-carrier routes were exclusively for
national-security traffic, or whether they carried civilian calls as well.
Perhaps someone with more expertise on the co-ax network can answer that.

Corrections and additions to any of the above are welcome...

...Albert

>2)Is their any way it can be determined if a cable route is for military
or
>civil use?  The first 50 miles of the journey to Georgia from Pensacola
>(travelled down Navy boulevard from the NAS, and then on US 29 in Florida
and
>finally AL Route 113).  The markers all had Bell symbols and were of
various
>shapes and sizes.  Would thepresence of Bell logos as opposed to AT&T
>indicate they are civilian?

On Mon, May 03, 1999 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Albert LaFrance wrote:
> From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
>
> I don't know whether the L-carrier routes were exclusively for
> national-security traffic, or whether they carried civilian calls as well.
> Perhaps someone with more expertise on the co-ax network can answer that.
>

	 To the best of my knowlage virtually all AT&T analog routes,
both L coax and microwave, carried mixtures of civilian and defense
circuits, private line traffic and trunking for the PSTN, Autovon and
various private lines.  Much of this was granular on the group (12
channels) or supergroup (60 channels) levels, but military/defense
related traffic was sometimes routed  on channel groups between
particular central offices because those slots in the multiplex were
assigned for traffic between those pairs of places rather than because
it was military and thus intermixed with civilian circuits of various
sorts on a voice channel by voice channel basis.

	 And certainly some chunks of spectrum (specific groups,
supergroups, mastergroups etc) got routed on L coax for part of their
journey and microwave for another part.  There were not separate
systems, but highly interconnected ones with a common signal format in
both mediums.  Radio routes would often back up coax routes, and
under failure conditions on the coax traffic would get switched to
radio and sometimes visa versa.   And circuits would get to their
ultimate destinations on radio links, and link up to one of the major
coax routes for the long haul part as there was much less coax than
radio...

	 In the mid to late 70s there was some active attempt made to
route sensitive traffic, much of which was defense related, on L coax in
certain geographical areas to make it less visible to the Russians who
were known to intercept microwave links near their various  diplomatic
installations.   This may have resulted in a substantial tilt toward
defense related stuff on L coax in those areas, but I don't think there
ever was anything close to a serious separation of traffic, and certainly
not an exclusive use of coax by defense circuits.   Some specific coax
links may have been primarily military because they serviced major
military facilities, but the military desire for redundancy meant that
at least some circuits were provisioned by other routes.



--
	 Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@...  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass.
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18

>I don't know whether the L-carrier routes were exclusively for
>national-security traffic, or whether they carried civilian calls as well.
>Perhaps someone with more expertise on the co-ax network can answer that.

An interesting question.  At first I though they carried both.  Why not, we
were
paying for it in our telephone bill.  All the engineers at Western Electric
I talked
to though most L carrier equipment was for civilian use only.  Later as I
looked further
there seemed to be a pattern.

I think the answer is it depends who it connected.  Much the same as asking
does an overhead cable going to a military base only carry military traffic?
Some of the original L1 cables carried 99% commercial.  Some later L3/L4
cables (like the ones to Lamar) carried 99% military.

Which brings up another interesting point about L carrier cables.  Some routes
are well defined, have wide clear cut routes and conspicuously marked for
aerial inspection while other routes have the traditional Bell system
markers but are not so
pronounced.  Here in New England the key paths between main stations are
the former  while
the "side legs" are the latter.  I have a suspicion that the routes with
"national security" implications
with the former and "civilian" routes were the latter.

I'm planning to do some work on the FEMA Federal Support Center near Olney,
MD, which is home to the Alternate National Warning Center.  I'll let you
know what I'm able to find out.

...Albert

Message text written by INTERNET:coldwarcomms@onelist.com
>Now... anyone have anything about NAWAS? I've only been able to find one
or two pages that are kinda vague about it... one of them was from the
www.fas.org site.
-<

Sometimes you found residential, business, and government communications
flowing through different cables in the same underground facility.

In residential and urban areas, manholes are interconnected by what telco
people call ducts (I call 'em "pipes"). These multiple ducts are then
filled with copper cables or sheaths called innerducts into which fiber is
placed. Many times the manholes served as splice points for cale runs (and,
in Florida, many times the manholes were filled with water. You'd pump one
out, and it would refill from adjacent manholes via the ducts!)

A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
termination of employment and federal prosecution!

Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
be determined from remote sites.

Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss of
pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.

--- John Warne <warnejw@...> wrote:
> From: John Warne <warnejw@...>
>
> A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are
> situations where dedicated
> copper cables were used for national defense
> communications. These cables
> always had the splice casings painted a bright red.
> The local technicians
> were forbidden to open one of those splice closures,
> under penalty of
> termination of employment and federal prosecution!
>
> Seems there was a way that the integrity of the
> seals on the cables could
> be determined from remote sites.
>
> Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture
> out, so perhaps loss of
> pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.

Many underground cables, both those that are directly
buried as well as those in ducts, are pressurized and
they can/do monitor the pressure. Helps detect leaks,
especially those caused by construction equipment...

I'd say that the pressure is the easiest way to make
sure people are keeping out of your cable.


===
--
Matthew Sadler, KF4LHP       ICQ: 6280641
kf4lhp@...               mws6533@...
http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
intrusion.  As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
protected solely by the conduits.

I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables.  In
the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
pole and attached to the cable.  These setups seemed to come and go;
perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
leak.  I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.

More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
small box attached to the case by a short stem.  There is a small cable
coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
regular subscriber line.  I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
sensors.

...Albert

>A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
>copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
>always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
>were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
>termination of employment and federal prosecution!
>
>Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
>be determined from remote sites.
>
>Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
of
>pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.

Gosh Albert,  we seem to have worked in the same place.   I "worked" at the
Foreign Affairs Data Processing Center at State around the
same time. Its where I gained my immense respect for the State. BTW lets see if
we can plan a joint trip to Spear Mt.

Hal

Albert Lawrence wrote:

> From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
>
> I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
> Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
> ("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
> conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
> intrusion.  As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
> centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
> between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
> protected solely by the conduits.
>
> I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
> phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
> presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables.  In
> the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
> nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
> pole and attached to the cable.  These setups seemed to come and go;
> perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
> leak.  I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
> poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.
>
> More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
> small box attached to the case by a short stem.  There is a small cable
> coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
> regular subscriber line.  I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
> sensors.
>
> ...Albert
>
> >A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
> >copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
> >always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
> >were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
> >termination of employment and federal prosecution!
> >
> >Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
> >be determined from remote sites.
> >
> >Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
> of
> >pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wanting to get back in touch with old friends?
> http://www.onelist.com
> Reunite through a ONElist community.

I have obtained a list of possible L Carrier Main Stations (which are still
operated by AT&T for other purposes).

Can anyone verify any of these?

- Sweetwater, TX
- Gadsden, AL
- Hoffman Estates, IL
- Bedminster NJ
- Falls Church, VA
- Herndon, VA

Thanks

In a message dated 5/5/99 7:32:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mfoster@...
writes:

<< - Falls Church, VA
   >>
Albert have you visited this site??

Mark,

>I have obtained a list of possible L Carrier Main Stations (which are
still
>operated by AT&T for other purposes).
>
>Can anyone verify any of these?

- Sweetwater, TX
- Gadsden, AL
- Hoffman Estates, IL

Those three are new to me.

- Bedminster NJ

Bedminster is AT&T's Network Operations Center.  I didn't know it was an
L-carrier facility, but it would certainly make sense to put an important
function like the NOC in a protected structure.

- Falls Church, VA

I live just outside the city limits of Falls Church. The only AT&T presence
I'm aware of in the area is an L-carrier "spur line", now fiber-optic,
which runs from the Dranesville bunker (about 13 mi. to the NW) along Rt. 7
through Falls Church on its way to an AT&T facility called Arlington 3,
near the Pentagon and DISA HQ.  There is a brick structure on Rt. 7 just
outside Falls Church which might be a repeater hut.  I have to check it
out; it might be just a pumping station.

There is a Bell Atlantic CO named "Falls Church".  It's actually just
outside the city limits, on Rt. 29 (Lee Hwy.) in Arlington County.  It was
mentioned once as a possible NTA NS/EP HF station, but I couldn't see any
antennas.  It's an old building, and appears to be just a local switch.

Further north on Rt. 29 is a big AT&T microwave station called Arlington 2.
  I believe it was a Class 2 or 3 center.  It's dead now, but has the usual
cell site and other miscellaneous antennas.  I'm told it was one of two
major microwave links for DC.  I do wonder if it might have been connected
to the Dranesville spur line.  No evidence of an underground facility.

- Herndon, VA

Herndon is about 3 mi. SSW of Dranesville.  It might have been an alternate
name, or a mailing address.  The main N-S cable should pass through that
area, so I'll check it out and advise.

...Albert

Hi all,

Did some researching in the archives at the local library Saturday and
found some interesting information (the newspaper clippings are one of
the best and most overlooked resources in a library):

An article in the Chattanooga Times, dated 1954 (the rest of the date is
illegible) noted that the number of telephones serving the city was 79%
greater than it was at the end of 1945. The city was served by 389
long-distance circuits, consisting of microwave routes linking
Chattanooga to Atlanta, Nashville, and Louisville and a coaxial cable to
Knoxville. To quote:

"Last year also saw the completion of a radio-relay system connecting
Atlanta, Chattanooga, Nashville, and Louisville. This modern microwave
system, which is connected to Knoxville by a coaxial cable (placed into
service 1/22/53 according to the article), not only provides numerous
additional long-distance circuits but also makes available network
television facilities for Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Nashville."

Like I stated earlier, I've almost positively located the first repeater
hut in this cable, and will have pictures sometime soon.
--
Matthew, KF4LHP                   ICQ: 6280641
Web: http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/   EMail: kf4lhp@...
============================================================
Join the ChattRadio mailing list!
http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/chattradio/chattradio.html

At 08:34 PM 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: CLDWARHIST@...
>
>In a message dated 5/5/99 7:32:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mfoster@...
>writes:
>
><< - Falls Church, VA
>  >>
>Albert have you visited this site??
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Looking for a fun, easy way to stay in touch with family members?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Create a ONElist community just for your family!

No.

Message text written by INTERNET:coldwarcomms@onelist.com
>> - Falls Church, VA
>Albert have you visited this site??

George,

I haven't been able to find any L-carrier facilities in Falls Church,
except for the possibly related ones I mentioned in my reply to Mark.  I'll
try to check out the repeater (?) hut today - it's just a few miles from
here.

...Albert

Sorry about that. Should not have gone to the list.   Please ignore it.  Thanks

hal wrote:

> From: hal <halfei@...>
>
> Gosh Albert,  we seem to have worked in the same place.   I "worked" at the
> Foreign Affairs Data Processing Center at State around the
> same time. Its where I gained my immense respect for the State. BTW lets see
if
> we can plan a joint trip to Spear Mt.
>
> Hal
>
> Albert Lawrence wrote:
>
> > From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
> >
> > I worked during the summer of 1978 in data processing at the State
> > Department, and recall being told that cables for classified un-encrypted
> > ("red") circuits within the building were carried in red-painted steel
> > conduits, with the fittings welded and the pipe pressurized to detect
> > intrusion.  As I understood the concept, the crypto equipment was
> > centralized in one or more secure technical-control rooms, with the lines
> > between these rooms and the end users' phones and data terminals being
> > protected solely by the conduits.
> >
> > I think pressurization for moisture protection was also used with aerial
> > phone cables, at least the paper-insulated lead-covered cables which were
> > presumably less tolerant of water than are plastic-insulated cables.  In
> > the 60s and 70s, it was quite common to see a tall gas cylinder (probably
> > nitrogen) chained to the base of a telephone pole, with a hose going up the
> > pole and attached to the cable.  These setups seemed to come and go;
> > perhaps the pressurization was only used when circuit problems suggested a
> > leak.  I also recall seeing technicians using listening devices on long
> > poles to "sniff" for leaks along aerial cable runs.
> >
> > More recently, I've noticed a few old lead aerial splice cases having a
> > small box attached to the case by a short stem.  There is a small cable
> > coming out of the box and connecting to a nearby junction box, like a
> > regular subscriber line.  I'm wondering if these boxes are pressure
> > sensors.
> >
> > ...Albert
> >
> > >A couple ex-telco types told me there were/are situations where dedicated
> > >copper cables were used for national defense communications. These cables
> > >always had the splice casings painted a bright red. The local technicians
> > >were forbidden to open one of those splice closures, under penalty of
> > >termination of employment and federal prosecution!
> > >
> > >Seems there was a way that the integrity of the seals on the cables could
> > >be determined from remote sites.
> > >
> > >Many cables were pressurized to keep water/moisture out, so perhaps loss
> > of
> > >pressure was used to alert in case of a breach.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Wanting to get back in touch with old friends?
> > http://www.onelist.com
> > Reunite through a ONElist community.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to learn more about your list users?
> http://www.onelist.com
> Now you can with our new User Survey Tool - see homepage for details

On 1 May 1999 the Atlanta Journal Constitution announced AT&T was cutting
back its Conyers Facility.  The paper says hundreds will be layed off at the
1265-person Conyers facility.

just in case someone is interested....
george

At 11:27 PM 5/7/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: CLDWARHIST@...
>
>On 1 May 1999 the Atlanta Journal Constitution announced AT&T was cutting
>back its Conyers Facility.  The paper says hundreds will be layed off at the
>1265-person Conyers facility.
>
>just in case someone is interested....
>george
>

What do they do there with 1265 people?

Who sent me the Conyers AT&T facility photos?

Are there GEP antennas on top of the Conyers microwave tower?

Are Rockdale and Conyers the same facility?

>What do they do there with 1265 people?

Obviously this web site has an axe to grind...

http://www.crl.com./~dbland/hijinks/kick.html

...Albert

In a message dated 5/8/99 7:48:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mfoster@...
writes:

<< Who sent me the Conyers AT&T facility photos?

  Are there GEP antennas on top of the Conyers microwave tower?

  Are Rockdale and Conyers the same facility? >>
I sent them..  NO GEP antennas, and yes they are the same facility.
If anyone is interested, i have a page on conyers at
http://members.tripod.com/~CldWarHist/index.html
George

In a message dated 5/8/99 7:00:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mfoster@...
writes:

<< What do they do there with 1265 people? >>
My notes state it is a Facility Maintnence Center for AT&T.  It formerly was
an AUTOVON site and Class I Regional Office

George

A followup on a couple of items:

(1) I checked out the possible repeater hut on Rt. 7 in Falls Church.  It's
definitely a water or sewer pumping station.  The emergency phone number
for Falls Church Public Utilities is posted on the door.

Based on the 4-mile spacing of two known repeaters on the
Dranesville-Arlington cable, there should be a repeater just west of this
location.  That would be in or near the I-66/Rt. 7/Metro rail crossing, so
it may have been demolished.

(2) I was in Herndon yesterday.  Lots of AT&T fiber in the area, and I saw
an old repeater hut near Herndon Elementary School.  Apparently the
southbound cable from Dranesville passes through there, and I think some
E-W branches too.

...Albert

For anyone interested, I took a trip to AT&T gainesville today.  I've never
been to an *active* military-use only AT&T microwave facility (Grayson was
closed and civilian only) and was quite impressed by the security (No CCTV,
but two barbwired fences with the inner fence that surrounded the antenna and
building ).  I also saw a interesting antenna above the four microwave horns.
  The thing that made it interesting to me was the center part of this antenna
was spiral shaped, unlike the whip antennas I saw at Conyers and Grayson.
Pictures will be soon available and I plan to make some more trips because I
only spent a few minutes at Gainesville
George

At 01:03 PM 5/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Albert LaFrance <ALaFrance@...>
>
>A followup on a couple of items:
>
>(1) I checked out the possible repeater hut on Rt. 7 in Falls Church.  It's
>definitely a water or sewer pumping station.  The emergency phone number
>for Falls Church Public Utilities is posted on the door.
>
>Based on the 4-mile spacing of two known repeaters on the
>Dranesville-Arlington cable, there should be a repeater just west of this
>location.  That would be in or near the I-66/Rt. 7/Metro rail crossing, so
>it may have been demolished.
>
>(2) I was in Herndon yesterday.  Lots of AT&T fiber in the area, and I saw
>an old repeater hut near Herndon Elementary School.  Apparently the
>southbound cable from Dranesville passes through there, and I think some
>E-W branches too.
>

What do the huts look like?  Similar to the ones on my site?  I have found
several lately that
are just a manhole.  The manholes do have covers with special bolts.  I
believe there is a
second hatch with a lock under them.

Mark,

>What do the huts look like?  Similar to the ones on my site?  I have found
several lately that
>are just a manhole.  The manholes do have covers with special bolts.  I
believe there is a
>second hatch with a lock under them.

Yes, all of them are the typical Colonial-style red brick houses.  Sizes
seem to vary a little.  I'm attaching a picture of one of the larger huts -
it's the second one from Dranesville on the Dranesville-Arlington cable.
Repeater spacing on this route is 4 miles.

Very interesting about the manhole-type repeaters.  Any idea why they were
used - maybe for urban locations where a free-standing building would be
impractical?

...Albert

Albert LaFrance wrote:
> Yes, all of them are the typical Colonial-style red brick houses.  Sizes
> seem to vary a little.  I'm attaching a picture of one of the larger huts -
> it's the second one from Dranesville on the Dranesville-Arlington cable.
> Repeater spacing on this route is 4 miles.

Looks similar to the hut on the Knoxville-Chattanooga L1 route. Some
research down at the library revealed this cable was put into service in
1953, and the windows on the hut are of that vintage. It has a gable
roof, windows on the short sides, and a door on one of the longer sides.

> Very interesting about the manhole-type repeaters.  Any idea why they were
> used - maybe for urban locations where a free-standing building would be
> impractical?

Would make sense. The AT&T manholes in my area that were put in for the
fiber optic routes all have locking bolts on them and have the
"deathstar" logo on them, so it's plainly obvious who owns them (not to
mention the buried cable warning signs are EVERYWHERE).

Attachment is a sign that a fellow has for sale on eBay right now (I
think, it may have gone off). Could this be an L-carrier vintage sign?
Has both the Bell System logo and AT&T name.
--
Matthew, KF4LHP                   ICQ: 6280641
Web: http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/   EMail: kf4lhp@...
============================================================
Join the ChattRadio mailing list!
http://www.qsl.net/kf4lhp/chattradio/chattradio.html

My apologies if the large attachment on my last posting caused any
inconvenience.  I forget that I was replying to a list message; otherwise I
would have just put the image on my web page.  I realize that some lists
discourage attachments.

...Albert

Matthew,

>Would make sense. The AT&T manholes in my area that were put in for the
>fiber optic routes all have locking bolts on them and have the
>"deathstar" logo on them, so it's plainly obvious who owns them (not to
>mention the buried cable warning signs are EVERYWHERE).

I'll have to check out some manholes around here.  I don't think I've ever
a regular (round steel top) manhole with the deathstar; the only ones I've
noticed are the traditional Bell System design.  But I haven't paid close
attention, so I could have missed the newer ones.

>Attachment is a sign that a fellow has for sale on eBay right now (I
>think, it may have gone off). Could this be an L-carrier vintage sign?
>Has both the Bell System logo and AT&T name.

That one's a bit puzzling.  Around here (Washington DC area), small yellow
Bell System signs with black lettering usually appear to be associated with
local telco cables, and in fact say "C&P Telephone".  This is the first
time I've seen one mentioning AT&T.  However, I have seen larger
black-on-yellow AT&T signs marking an copper-pair cable route from Mt.
Weather, and giving a number for AT&T's Finksburg, MD facility.  To make
things more confusing, the repeater huts on this route are simple
concrete-block structures, and have Bell Atlantic signs on them.

Based on that limited experience, my speculation would be that the sign
might be for some type of AT&T cable other than L-carrier.  Perhaps the
West Palm Beach location is a clue - do you know if there is/was a manned
AT&T facility there?

...Albert