-------------- Original message --------------

I heard that Irwin Rommel studied Forrest’s work while visiting America.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hooperjwboro@...
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:24 PM
To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: The Myth of Nathan Bedford Forrest

 

Forrest was elevated during and shortly after the war by R.E. Lee  and Sherman.

By West Point ? someone help me. By international military figures ? . IIRC in Memphis with the park and statue ,1880's. In hometown, birth, Chapel Hill Tn, preWW2.   

 

--
Respectfully,
John Hooper

 

-------------- Original message --------------
--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Huddleston"
<huddleston.r@c...> wrote:

> And, of relevance here, why was Forrest not included? He was a corps
> commander and a lieutenant general. In the early years of the twentieth
> century, was Bedford Forrest not considered to be in the Confederate
> pantheon? If not, when did he become one of the Most Famous Civil War
> Generals? I can not imagine a similar poster today not including
Forrest.

I can speculate on why he wasn't included.

(1)  He was a slavetrader, and such were looked down upon by the
upper crust of Southern society, such as those interested in
building the Lee monument.

(2)  He was a leader in the Klan, which carried some of the
same anathema.

It is my sense that NBF's elevation to the upper echelon of
the Confederate pantheon is a relatively modern thing.

JFE

 

Hiking through history uphill
Associated Press - August 30
The final attack on the bloodiest day of the Civil War was literally an
uphill battle.  Now a trail at Antietam National Battlefield lets hikers
feel the strain that soldiers from both sides experienced marching over
hilly farm fields toward a meeting that ended with the Union failing to
corner Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.
http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=118945&format=html

Take care,

Bob

Judy and Bob Huddleston
10643 Sperry Street
Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
303.451.6376  Huddleston.r@...

Please try to understand this. It's not an easy thing to hear, but please
listen. There is no morality in warfare. You kill children. You kill women.
You kill old men. You don't seek them out, but they die. That's what happens
in war. - Paul Tibbets

The Critter Co book seems to be largely discredited because itm is more
fiction than fact. Wyeth is usually accwepted as accurate.

  Best regards,

Jim h

I think the word massacre  is misleading. The garrison was not wiped out and
every UCT was not killed. This word comes from the propagana about Ft Pillow
and is what seems tro have caused the controversy in the first place.

Bought it through Amazon, it arrived today.  I just flipped through the
section on the Battle of Raymond, and it's terrible.  Just dead wrong
on all counts.  Worst version of the battle I have read yet.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, CAMPAIGN62@A... wrote:

> I think the word massacre  is misleading. The garrison was not wiped
out and
> every UCT was not killed.
--------------------
Not required for there to be a massacre.

mas·sa·cre n.
1.  The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans
indiscriminately and cruelly.
2.  The slaughter of a large number of animals.
3.  Informal. A severe defeat, as in a sports event.

Regards,
Cash

Worst yet?  Ouch.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@y...> wrote:
>
> Bought it through Amazon, it arrived today.  I just flipped through the
> section on the Battle of Raymond, and it's terrible.  Just dead wrong
> on all counts.  Worst version of the battle I have read yet.

-------------- Original message --------------

In a message dated 9/30/2005 11:41:16 AM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:

Yet Dave, the study of the battle of Brice's Cross Roads shows that Forrest's tactics and strategy epitomizes the intent of FM 100-5   Operations.

JEJ

-------------- Original message --------------
--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Dan G <dan6764@y...> wrote:
> I have been following this debate with a great deal of interest.. 
Everyone wonders why the proportion of dead and wounded between CSA
and US forces is so greatly out of balance  Seems like most of the
answers ansumes that the main reason was the deliberate massacre of US
troops by Forrests men.. 
------------
Not quite, Dan.  It's the distribution of the dead and wounded among
the Union troops between blacks and whites.  There were so many more
blacks killed than whites, and so fewer wounded blacks than whites
that it highly suggests blacks were especially targeted.  That there
were a disproportionate killed rather than wounded suggests a
massacre.  That combined with the eyewitness accounts is what leads to
the conclusion of a massacre by Forrest's men.

Regards,
Cash

> James2044 <JWD2044@h...> wrote:
> Are
> we "proving" something that could not be "proven" at the time?  It
> seems that many are trying to do that.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@y...>
wrote:
>
>                    Very well stated James,.,..Thankyou
>                                        Respectfully Capt.McCracken


You are welcome, I feel we need to defend history from those that wish
to rewrite it to suit "current thinking".

James2044

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Gower" <billgower@c...>
wrote:
> Yes in 1864 and in the South and that says it all.

It is as wrong to ascribe trates to all blacks or all Irish or all
germans as it is to ascribe trates to all white southerners.
However, most seem to think that is isn't wrong to do that and your
statement is the result.

It is not possible that ALL of the CSA forces were raciest!

It is not possible that all of the USA forces were not raciest!

It is not possible that all slaves were unhappy and longed to be
free!

It is not possible that all slaves were happy and delighted in
slavery!

It is possible that part of the group accept the 1st & 3rd statments
as possible, while part of the group accepts the 2nd & 4th as
possible.

Raciest statements are directed against a group of class, race,
gender or anything else have little to do with it.

James2044

Sorry Jack but I don't agree with you.  The ACW is full of "Ft. Pillow"
type actions BUT only here is it so Black & White, pardon the pun.
White on White or Native American on White get passed over with anry a
comment.  White on Native American while not as good as White on Black
will always get comments.  For example, check my Ft. Pillows posting.
I listed a couple that had nothing to do with Blacks but we ended up a
Sand Creek.

James2044

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Ehmer" <ohio11thcav@a...>
wrote:
> I would say that your statement certainly indicates the lack of
> historical objectivity that Dr. Schiller referred to.
>
> Jack
>
> --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "tristan4th" <tristan4th@y...>
> wrote:>
> >
> <snip>
>
>               Oh I'll probably get in trouble for this, as well
> as
> > offend...But IMO, You hit the nail on the head here Mr.Gower..."we"
> > would have moved on to another interesting battle, instead of
> > creating an argument for the NAACP to figure out........
>
> <snip>

I was hoping I would not have to do this but it looks as if some of the
emails are reaching a tone that will not be tolerated in this group.  No
more discussions on Fort Pillow or Nathan Bedford Forrest as he relates to
blacks.  If you want to discuss some of the battles that Forrest was in feel
free to do so.  If you want to discuss how he related to the Black issue,
find another group. I had thought that we might have overcome the Fort
Pillow problem that is why I let it continue but I was wrong.  AGAIN, Fort
Pillow is to be discussed no more in this group.  Anyone that has a problem
with this is welcome to contact me via private email.  An email to the group
about it is going to cause the sender a real problem.

I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
http://www.civilwarhome.com

Mine just arrived yesterday but I have not looked at Raymond yet. That
does mot make me feel good about the investment ( cash or time ).

-----Original Message-----
From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of William H Keene
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 4:22 PM
To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Ecelbarger's "Black Jack Logan"

Worst yet?  Ouch.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@y...>
wrote:
>
> Bought it through Amazon, it arrived today.  I just flipped through
the
> section on the Battle of Raymond, and it's terrible.  Just dead wrong
> on all counts.  Worst version of the battle I have read yet.






Yahoo! Groups Links

I think The Crater was also a Black and White action with much the same
results.

Best regards,

Jim h

I know I'm going to hear about this, but IMHO "Honest Abe" Lincoln started
the war. He sent a ship to provision the fort despite warnings. He thus left
Jeff D and  PGTB on the horns of a dilema. Do you let the ship through or fire
on
it to show your sovernty?

If the scoolyard bully pushes you down, and you get up and throw a punch at
him/her, didn't you start the fight?

Best regards,

Jim H

1300+ messages this month and most are of the "Your
wrong, idiot, stupid, and I'm right BS".  Thanks for
closing the thread!

Rick Moody
r_moody@...


When you arise in the morning,
give thanks for the morning light,
for your life and strength.
Give thanks for your food,
and the joy of living.

If you see no reason for giving thanks,
the fault lies with yourself.

Tecumseh, Shawnee (The Southern People)



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

At 11:20 AM +0000 9/30/05, civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>  Forrest elevation has always been on a regional basis. West Point,
>GA, AL, MS, TN
>>  --
>Most post war emphasis was on the Eastern area of operations.
>Perhaps, NBF began to receive recognition when the importance of the
>West began to be accepted.  Hard to study the area of our interest
>without coming accross NBF.
>
>Norris

Norris - you are absolutely correct - the Eastern theatre until
recently dominated everything, but the Western theatre has been
growing in people's minds and much excellent work has been produced
on the west and trans-Mississippi. As with everything, the pendulum
swings...

Best,

Laurie Schiller
--
Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller

At 11:20 AM +0000 9/30/05, civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>If you take a day or two off you could have a couple
>of hundred posts to go through at times.  Oh my aching
>wrist.
>
>Shotgun, add to the rules that we can't sue for Carpal
>Tunnel from reading or posting too many messages.  :-)
>
>
>
>
>Rick Moody
>r_moody@...

Rick - I know what you mean - I often miss time and have to go
through lots of digests containing dozens of posts.

Best,

Laurie Schiller
--
Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller

At 11:20 AM +0000 9/30/05, civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>Message: 22
>    Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:44:44 EDT
>    From: keeno2@...
>Subject: Re: A question of historical analysis
>
>Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, Laurie.
>Ken
>

My pleasure - just trying to add to the discussion.

Best,

Laurie Schiller
--
Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller

--- CAMPAIGN62@... wrote:


---------------------------------
I know I'm going to hear about this, but IMHO "Honest
Abe" Lincoln started
the war. He sent a ship to provision the fort despite
warnings. He thus left
Jeff D and  PGTB on the horns of a dilema. Do you let
the ship through or fire on
it to show your sovernty?

If the scoolyard bully pushes you down, and you get up
and throw a punch at
him/her, didn't you start the fight?

Best regards,

Jim H
    Jim:
Did SC Secede from the Union?Did the North have a
valid argument that that was not legal ?
Was Lincoln not sending supplies to troops he felt
were in lawful posses ion of Government property ?
Stan

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Absolutely correct Ken - the bit about Northern substitutes is
completely irrelevant. But, you know, one thing that keeps getting
overlooked in this whole discussion is that while there were few
anywhere in the US who considered African-Americans equal to white
people, there were many who considered slavery an evil and considered
that shooting surrendering USCT troops a crime. This isn't just a
modern view, but existed at the time as well.

Best,

Laurie Schiller

At 5:01 PM +0000 9/30/05, civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>I figure the original statement "time and location" meant, simply, that today
>we may be shocked and appalled at what appears to be a disparity between the
>number of white and black deaths. Then, the situation was considerably
>different.
>
>We are being asked, not to condone, but to understand. Given the heat, the
>prevailing attitude, and the CS official position on black soldiers, it is
>understandable. Forgiveable is a personal matter.
>
>The red herring of eastern substitutes and immigrants is familiar.
>Ken

--
Dr. Laurence Dana Schiller