--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
<wh_keene@y...> wrote:

> > On a related topic, my copy Grabau has an error on map #50.  The
> > topographical info is there, but the troop data is missing.
Anyone
> > have the correct map?  Any possibility I could get you to send me
a
> > copy?
>
> The copy I got from the library was the same way.

As is mine.

Dave

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hank9174 <clarkc@m...>"
<clarkc@m...> wrote:
>
> Dang, go away for a long weekend and return to a 'museum of
> carnage' as Ernie Pyle called it...

to our nightmare ... :-)

Dave

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith <dmsmith001@y...>"
<dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
> --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
> <wh_keene@y...> wrote:
>
> > > On a related topic, my copy Grabau has an error on map #50.
The
> > > topographical info is there, but the troop data is missing.
> Anyone
> > > have the correct map?  Any possibility I could get you to send
me
> a
> > > copy?
> >
> > The copy I got from the library was the same way.
>
> As is mine.

Grabau lives down the road from my dad's office.  When my mom dropped
in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back a
couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in.  I could
probably scan map #50 and post it here.  But I don't have a scanner
and I'm pretty busy these days, so it may take awhile.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith <dmsmith001@y...>"
<dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
> --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "theme_music
<theme_music@y...>"
> <theme_music@y...> wrote:
> >
> > ...I've always wondered if there was
> > some confusion here, given the similarity of the names...
>
> From my research, there was no confusion in the names.
>


After pausing to reflect, I agree with Dave.
~Will

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
<wh_keene@y...> wrote:
> --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "theme_music
<theme_music@y...>"
> <theme_music@y...> wrote:
> >
> > At one point, just after he'd been shoved out of Jackson, JEJ
> orders,
> > or possibly suggests, that Pemberton meet him in Clinton.  But
> after
> > issuing this order, JEJ moves north to Canton instead of west or
> > southwest to Clinton.  I've always wondered if there was some
> > confusion here, given the similarity of the names. How far off
base
> > am I?  I could see, with my lousy handwriting, someone reading
> Canton
> > as Clinton.
>
> Interesting point.  I could also see JEJ--not feeling so well,
tired,
> not 100% up on local geography--putting down the wrong name.

It's hard to see how he could get the two confused.  Clinton was
where the enemy was, Canton was the only direction out of town not
interdicted by federal forces.  His escape would necessarily involve
marching down Canton Road.  Imagine if he issued marching orders for
his troops to march in column down the "Clinton Road."  That would
have been amusing.

In Johnston's mind, it was probably pretty simple to keep up with.
Canton: good.
Clinton: bad.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
<slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
> ...When my mom dropped
> in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back a
> couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in...

Are there a lot of corrections?
Anything of substantive interest?

~Will

Just a test to see if Yahoo changed my address...

I've been spending most of the day trying to switch my e-mail account.  My
last stumbling block appears to be Yahoo.  I seem to have successfully
reconfigured to allow me to post messages to both of the groups to which I
subscribe, CWDG and Vivil War West.  I have made test posts, and I see they
have posted to the groups by signing in to the groups themselves.  However,
the messages are not being delivered to my new address.

Does anybody have any idea of what I need to do to fix this problem?

Harry

==Your E-mail is Working.
==  Yes, Your E-mail is Working.

Jeff (Grey Beard) Puffer



--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@c...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Just a test to see if Yahoo changed my address...

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
<wh_keene@y...> wrote:
> --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
> <slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
> > ...When my mom dropped
> > in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back
a
> > couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in...
>
> Are there a lot of corrections?
> Anything of substantive interest?

To be honest, I don't know!  The corrections that really struck my
eye were the tiniest: he had actually printed out the word "north" on
a sheet of paper, carefully xacto-knifed it into a tiny rectangle,
and glued it into the book over the word "south," or something like
that.  Holy cow!  I would have settled for an errata sheet.

=)

". . . .Great idea!  I have had many people write me and tell me that they are just starting to study the war seriously and wanted to know what I thought would be the best book to start with.  Without hesitation I tell that there is no better place to start than with James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom."  No doubt since you are a fan of the Civil War and belong to a Round Table you know the book.   Since your students are probably already at the college level this book would not be too deep for them and takes the war from it's causes through to reconstruction.   I have a library of several hundred books dealing with the Civil War and this is one of the few that discusses the war in it's totality. . . "

I'd suggest The Civil War and Reconstruction by David Herbert Donald, Jean Harvey Baker, and Michael F. Holt (W.W. Norton, 2001), a textbook geared for the college and/or grad level student. A little light on military matters, but excellent on the social, political, and economic issues of the war.

Terry Johnston
 
 

Dick Weeks wrote:

As most of you know I spend a lot of my time answering questions that come in from my website.  I got an email last night from a High School teacher who is a Civil War fan and is going to set up a course this fall on the war for some of those students that are on a college track and need credit for a course such as this and wanted to know if I had a suggestion for a text book he could use.  I had to think about this for a while because it has been a lot of years since I was in High School and I was just not sure of the level of the courses being taught now.  Then it dawned on me, if many of the questions I receive from students about the Civil War who are in just a general American History class are any indication there are really bright people in school now.  Much more so than when I was there.  Based on that, here is my recommendation that I sent him.

". . . .Great idea!  I have had many people write me and tell me that they are just starting to study the war seriously and wanted to know what I thought would be the best book to start with.  Without hesitation I tell that there is no better place to start than with James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom."  No doubt since you are a fan of the Civil War and belong to a Round Table you know the book.   Since your students are probably already at the college level this book would not be too deep for them and takes the war from it's causes through to reconstruction.   I have a library of several hundred books dealing with the Civil War and this is one of the few that discusses the war in it's totality. . . "

I also told him about this group and that we had some of the most well read folks there is and I would ask you for some of your suggestions.  If some of you have a little time, I would appreciate any suggestions for books he might be interested in. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)http://www.civilwarhome.com

I suggest David Herbert Donald's 'LIBERTY AND UNION: THE CRISIS OF
POPULAR GOVERNMENT, 1830-1890', the next best single volume I've read
on the period.

His biography of Lincoln is the best one volume treatment of the
greatest American and gives the worm's eye view of politics and
government.

I suppose the books to use depend on the length of the class. Here in
Columbia, we went from 'quarters' to 'trimesters' this year... That
makes the year a true 'labor' of love for *most* of the teachers.


HankC

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Johnston

To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:07 AM

Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Book Suggestion

Dick,

I'd suggest The Civil War and Reconstruction by David Herbert Donald, Jean Harvey Baker, and Michael F. Holt (W.W. Norton, 2001), a textbook geared for the college and/or grad level student. A little light on military matters, but excellent on the social, political, and economic issues of the war.

Terry Johnston
 
 

Dick Weeks wrote:

As most of you know I spend a lot of my time answering questions that come in from my website.  I got an email last night from a High School teacher who is a Civil War fan and is going to set up a course this fall on the war for some of those students that are on a college track and need credit for a course such as this and wanted to know if I had a suggestion for a text book he could use.  I had to think about this for a while because it has been a lot of years since I was in High School and I was just not sure of the level of the courses being taught now.  Then it dawned on me, if many of the questions I receive from students about the Civil War who are in just a general American History class are any indication there are really bright people in school now.  Much more so than when I was there.  Based on that, here is my recommendation that I sent him.

". . . .Great idea!  I have had many people write me and tell me that they are just starting to study the war seriously and wanted to know what I thought would be the best book to start with.  Without hesitation I tell that there is no better place to start than with James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom."  No doubt since you are a fan of the Civil War and belong to a Round Table you know the book.   Since your students are probably already at the college level this book would not be too deep for them and takes the war from it's causes through to reconstruction.   I have a library of several hundred books dealing with the Civil War and this is one of the few that discusses the war in it's totality. . . "

I also told him about this group and that we had some of the most well read folks there is and I would ask you for some of your suggestions.  If some of you have a little time, I would appreciate any suggestions for books he might be interested in. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)http://www.civilwarhome.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Dick,

You might consider sending the teacher in the direction of the Harlan
Davidson series on history.

Brooks Simpson has a very good one-volume history of the war
titled "America's Civil War" that I like a lot, it's 228 pages, and
provides a good overview.

There are also titles such as John Niven's "The coming of the Civil
War, 1837-1861," and Michael Perman's "Emanicipation and
Reconstruction."

They have the attractiveness for a high school teacher of all being
softcover, and relatively inexpensive.

Dave

Dave Smith
Villa Hills, KY

Yes, it's the latest update. I think college-level high schoolers can handle it without any problems, but this teacher, of course, will have to be the judge. At the very least, you might want to add it to your shelf (that is, if you have any room).

TJ

Dick Weeks wrote:

 Hi Terry, Interesting.  Is this another update of the original book?  If so, it will be the third one. I have the one by Donald and Randall.  I believe Randall updated the original   I find this book just a great resource for the social and political aspects of the war.  I was going to recommend that one too but I thought it might be just a little bit too in-depth for the class.  I may have to rethink that however.  . I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
http://www.civilwarhome.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Johnston

To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:07 AM

Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Book Suggestion

 Dick,

I'd suggest The Civil War and Reconstruction by David Herbert Donald, Jean Harvey Baker, and Michael F. Holt (W.W. Norton, 2001), a textbook geared for the college and/or grad level student. A little light on military matters, but excellent on the social, political, and economic issues of the war.

Terry Johnston
 
 

Dick Weeks wrote:

As most of you know I spend a lot of my time answering questions that come in from my website.  I got an email last night from a High School teacher who is a Civil War fan and is going to set up a course this fall on the war for some of those students that are on a college track and need credit for a course such as this and wanted to know if I had a suggestion for a text book he could use.  I had to think about this for a while because it has been a lot of years since I was in High School and I was just not sure of the level of the courses being taught now.  Then it dawned on me, if many of the questions I receive from students about the Civil War who are in just a general American History class are any indication there are really bright people in school now.  Much more so than when I was there.  Based on that, here is my recommendation that I sent him.

". . . .Great idea!  I have had many people write me and tell me that they are just starting to study the war seriously and wanted to know what I thought would be the best book to start with.  Without hesitation I tell that there is no better place to start than with James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom."  No doubt since you are a fan of the Civil War and belong to a Round Table you know the book.   Since your students are probably already at the college level this book would not be too deep for them and takes the war from it's causes through to reconstruction.   I have a library of several hundred books dealing with the Civil War and this is one of the few that discusses the war in it's totality. . . "

I also told him about this group and that we had some of the most well read folks there is and I would ask you for some of your suggestions.  If some of you have a little time, I would appreciate any suggestions for books he might be interested in. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)http://www.civilwarhome.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

A couple of personal favorites:

W.A. Swanberg, First Blood, 1957.  It's a very readable book about the Sumter crisis heavily using contemporary diaries and newspaper reports, sort of like the Walter Lord books on the Titanic and Pearl Harbor.

Avery Craven, The Coming of the Civil War. A bit longer and more of a professional history job covering more years from a national perspective.

At least one of the Catton books.  Say Glory Road to put down a name.

Sherman: Fighting Prophet

Grant's memoirs

 "Hank Clark <clarkc@...>" <clarkc@...> wrote:

I suggest David Herbert Donald's 'LIBERTY AND UNION: THE CRISIS OF
POPULAR GOVERNMENT, 1830-1890', the next best single volume I've read
on the period.

His biography of Lincoln is the best one volume treatment of the
greatest American and gives the worm's eye view of politics and
government.

I suppose the books to use depend on the length of the class. Here in
Columbia, we went from 'quarters' to 'trimesters' this year... That
makes the year a true 'labor' of love for *most* of the teachers.


HankC






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Cash,

I have both of these - my only concern is that McPherson may be too
challenging for high school students, and Robertson's is written for
a middle school / junior high school level.

They are both obviously very good.

Dave

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, CashG79@a... wrote:
> I don't think there is any better recommendation than McPherson's
_Battle Cry
> of Freedom._  Probably the only thing that will come close is James
I.
> Robertson's _Civil War!  America Becomes One Nation,_ although
these students
> might possibly be too advanced.  Here's a writeup on the book:
>
> Civil War! America Becomes One Nation:
> An Illustrated History for Young Readers, by James I. Robertson
Jr., Virginia
> Tech C.P. Miles Professor of History (New York: Alfred A. Knopf,
1992).
> Renowned Civil War scholar Robertson describes in detail every
facet of the
> war, from the events leading up to it to the final battles. An easy-
to-read
> study of the Civil War conflict, written for young and old readers
alike.
> Comprised of more than 50 major battles and thousands of "minor
actions," the
> Civil War claimed the lives of more than 700,000 Americans-soldiers
and
> civilians-and formed a permanent union between the states, gave
increased
> power to the federal government, and put an end to slavery.
Illustrated with
> numerous maps, drawings and vintage photographs and prints, this
book
> captures the glory and tragedy of the war that affected nearly
every family
> in the nation.
>
>
> Regards,
> Cash

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dick Weeks" <shotgun@c...>
wrote:
> As most of you know I spend a lot of my time answering questions
that come in from my website.  I got an email last night from a High
School teacher who is a Civil War fan and is going to set up a course
this fall on the war for some of those students that are on a college
track and need credit for a course such as this and wanted to know if
I had a suggestion for a text book he could use.  I had to think
about this for a while because it has been a lot of years since I was
in High School and I was just not sure of the level of the courses
being taught now.  Then it dawned on me, if many of the questions I
receive from students about the Civil War who are in just a general
American History class are any indication there are really bright
people in school now.  Much more so than when I was there.  Based on
that, here is my recommendation that I sent him.
>   ". . . .Great idea!  I have had many people write me and tell me
that they are just starting to study the war seriously and wanted to
know what I thought would be the best book to start with.  Without
hesitation I tell that there is no better place to start than with
James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom."  No doubt since you are a
fan of the Civil War and belong to a Round Table you know the book.
Since your students are probably already at the college level this
book would not be too deep for them and takes the war from it's
causes through to reconstruction.   I have a library of several
hundred books dealing with the Civil War and this is one of the few
that discusses the war in it's totality. . . "
> I also told him about this group and that we had some of the most
well read folks there is and I would ask you for some of your
suggestions.  If some of you have a little time, I would appreciate
any suggestions for books he might be interested in.

I would suggest "This Terrible War."  It reads much more like a
textbook, and, like "Battle Cry of Freedom," covers the war from
causes to reconstruction (maybe even through redemption and beyond...
I can't remember).

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
<slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
>
> I would suggest "This Terrible War."  It reads much more like a
> textbook, and, like "Battle Cry of Freedom," covers the war from
> causes to reconstruction (maybe even through redemption and
> beyond... I can't remember).

Here's the full scoop on this book:

This Terrible War by Michael Fellman, Lesley J. Gordon, and Daniel E.
Sutherland

Product Details

Hardcover: 432 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.86 x 9.66 x 7.48
Publisher: Longman; ; 1st edition (August 9, 2002)
ISBN: 0321125584

In-Print Editions: Paperback (1st)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 32,028

From the Back Cover:

Explores the complexities of the Civil War era, detailing the
political, economic, military, and human events of this tragic
American conflict.


* Personal and candid excerpts from diaries, newspapers, and songs
illustrate the human meanings of the war.
* Detailed examination of the chain of events in the contexts of the
years leading up to the Civil War and follows the war's aftermath.
* Reports on the home front where the impact of the Civil War was
felt most.
In this engaging account of the Civil War, the war that Abraham
Lincoln called in his Second Inaugural Address, "this terrible war,"
the authors take the readers beyond the flags and bugles to explore
this event for what it was rather than for what many wish it had
been. Ultimately set off by the Slavery Debate and the South's
secession from the Union, the Civil War was a spiteful military
campaign of countryman vs. countryman, and resulted in enormous
casualties and dire consequences for the Northern and Southern
Armies. The authors thoroughly explore the political, economic, and
social chain of events that led up to the war; the chaos and
destruction which resulted from political inexperience with waging a
war of this magnitude; and the ultimate failure of Reconstruction
effort to produce racial justice. With maps to guide the reader
through the major battles, and period photographs which show both the
military and the human side of the conflict, This Terrible War
provides the reader with a unique view of a complex American tragedy
in the context of the Civil War and Reconstruction eras.

Michael Fellman is Professor of History and Director of the Graduate
Liberal Studies Program at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver,
British Columbia. Among his earlier books are Inside War: The
Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri During the American Civil War; Citizen
Sherman: A Biography of William T. Sherman; and The Making of Robert
E. Lee.

Daniel E. Sutherland is a professor of history at the University of
Arkansas. He is the author or editor of eleven other books about
Nineteenth-Century United States history, including Seasons of War:
The Ordeal of a Confederate Community, and Fredericksburg and
Chancellorsville: The Dare Mark Campaign.

I added grabau50.jpg to the files section of this group.  If you want
any more corrections from "98 Days," just let me know.

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
<slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
>
> I added grabau50.jpg to the files section of this group.  If you
want
> any more corrections from "98 Days," just let me know.

Thanks Slip.

Downloaded it, printed it, taped it in over the faulty map.

Eric

How many men did Forrest have riding with him in the fall/winter of
1862/63? I have seen reports from Negley that said four to five
thousand.  Is that right?  Any good sources out there on NBF that would
give an accurate number?  Thanks in advance.

Kevin S. "did not mention Rosecrans" Coy

--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, thecoys@k... wrote:
> How many men did Forrest have riding with him in the fall/winter of
> 1862/63? I have seen reports from Negley that said four to five
> thousand.  Is that right?  Any good sources out there on NBF that
would
> give an accurate number?  Thanks in advance.
>

The numbers of men attributed to 'riding' with the western CSA cavalry
seem to be always wildly inflated.

I suppose this is due to the nature and requirements of the service.

Many men rode when the unit was in their neighborhood and later left
when crossing the county/department/state line.

The rule that men supply their own mount allowed horseless men
to be carried on the cavalry rolls but serving (if at all) with the
infantry.

IIRC Bragg counted 20,000 cavalry in 3 divisions during the Tullahoma
operation.


HankC

It was more like 2 to 3 Thousand


----- Original Message -----
From: <thecoys@...>
To: "CWWT" <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: [civilwarwest] Forrest's numbers


> How many men did Forrest have riding with him in the fall/winter of
> 1862/63? I have seen reports from Negley that said four to five
> thousand.  Is that right?  Any good sources out there on NBF that would
> give an accurate number?  Thanks in advance.
>
> Kevin S. "did not mention Rosecrans" Coy
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>