That's awful. The lack of respect in our times really saddens me. Let's hope they stay down
south and don't come up to the Central Coast. -Coralgeo

--- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Norris" <dlnorris@p...> wrote:
> I found two
> caches that had long strips of paper in them that announces "YOUR CACHE
> HAS BEEN MUGGLED!"

Greetings to all CCG-ers,

From the recent posts, it is clear that geocaching has become an
exciting, lucrative, and "fun" target of criminals who think it is
their "right" to harass and violate people, destroy and steal
property, and commit violence against the property, customs, and
emotionally valuable activities and order of others.

These criminals only conduct this violence against groups for which
they have absolutely no respect or trepidation.  If no one takes any
action to stop or respond to such aggressive behavior, the result is
the same as if we were to condone and encourage it.  The real problem
is that once begun, it always worsens.  Even at a comparatively
trivial level, this kind of vandalism can effectively destroy our
great hobby/sport, diminishing its value, and ruining its fun.

In decades past (I've seen over 5 of them), people have not allowed
this sort of problem to develop.  In most parts of the country, this
is still true today.  I've lived, worked, or travelled in all 50
states and have noticed that California is unique in allowing, or more
accurately, enabling criminal activity like this.

I suggest that we cannot tolerate this and should be alert to any such
activity.  At the first hint of a problem, we should consider using
our technical expertise to expose the perpetrators.  Then, we can stop
the problem by responding in kind.  We can easily make it very
expensive for these criminals.  If we are lucky, we won't have to deal
with it.  If not, we can create our own luck.

Take good care, Rick ;-)

Rick,

I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the forums
on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.

The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them are
in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane humor.
In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good reason
to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the perps
are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go away
after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
nobody comments on it.

Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?

--Stephanie

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephanie Cottrell Bryant [mailto:mortaine@...]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:40 AM
To: ccgca@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CCGC] Re: Geomuggle Anti-cache Violence

Rick,

I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the forums
on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.

The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them are
in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane humor.
In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good reason
to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the perps
are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go away
after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
nobody comments on it.

Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?

--Stephanie

Hi Stephanie,

Thank you for setting me straight.  Your descriptions are right on
target.  Although the data I have (I teach and work in the field)
shows we are moving in that direction, others may have a different
perception of what they believe is "truth," and I do not dispute that.

FYI, under the California Penal Code, destroying a geocache is a
misdemeanor.  This simply gives us (geocachers) a response tool.

My suggestion was clearly too implicit.  Sorry.  I only meant to
suggest that we report such activity as to remain aware of any
threat.  We could have then chatted about the issue over pizza and
soda.  If the community doesn't care, then I am beating against the
wind and will remain quiet on the issue.

Thanks again and take good care,
Rick

--- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Cottrell Bryant"
<mortaine@g...> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
> forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the
forums
> on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
> tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
> about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
> been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.
>
> The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them
are
> in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
> geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane
humor.
> In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
> apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
> adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good
reason
> to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the
perps
> are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
> someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
> crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go
away
> after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
> nobody comments on it.
>
> Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?
>
> --Stephanie

Hi Monty,

Good comments.  The way we address this sort of problem in other
areas is two-fold.  One, we ensure that we (communicators, hams,
contesters, hikers, etc) know what's up.  Two, we initially ignore
the "perps."  When they don't get a response, they are unsure if they
have an effect and quickly tire of their misbehavior.

I live in California and don't choose to see bad trends.  I do work
as a DSW, the Emergency Coordinator for Seaside, and as a registered
emergency communicator, and have significant access to crime stats.
California is at 10th in violent crime, in the middle of reported
crime against property, and is experiencing a rise in high-tech and
low dollar value crime.  This includes unreported crimes such as what
we may be seeing with the present topic.

I don't have time to fret about some problem no one cares about, and
I certainly don't want to create stress. For me, geocaching is a fun
hobby.  I have no interest in turning it into a drama or conflict.
So, I'll head back to school and once in a while out to find a cache
or two.

Thanks for your thoughts and have fun on the geocaching trail.
Take good care,
Rick ;-)

--- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "Monty Groves" <mrgroves@c...> wrote:
> One could say they are cleaning up the litter I suppose.  They may
be full
> grown perps.  As well, last I checked, California had one of the
lowest
> crime rates of any states in the USA.  We should keep it htat way.
It just
> costs too much to live here without a job.
>
> I would treat this like the grafitti problem in reverse.  Keep re-
placing
> the caches and they will tire of it.
>
> MOnty

Hey everyone,

I hope that my initial joke about a dead guy geocach was not taken
wrong.  I was not promoting violence nor making any form of
suggestion, I was only trying to make light of the problem using
extreme excessive humor with a REAL problem.  If you look at
Bakersfield (93307 area code) you will see 3147 geocaches in a 100
mi radius, but if you change that to a 25 mi radius or 10 mi radius
you get just a handful of caches in the real area.  Went 4 of that
handful disappear, this becomes a problem.  I more wanted people to
brainstorm and figure out how to better protect their caches, as
owner of several caches that I put a lot of time into, I sense the
disappointment of the people who placed the original caches.  That
is why when I came across the "Muggled" caches I did my best to
restock their caches.  I heard combination locks as a possible
solution so that you might at least have the e mail list of those
who requested the combination and I mentioned making them premium
membership only, but doing so you would not encourage beginners to
continue since there would be less for them to find.  I hope this is
isolated, just the way I wish that taggers are only kids bent on
property destruction for a short period of time, as  they will grow
out of it and go forth with their lifes.  I don't have many
solutions, only questions and concerns.

-----Original Message-----
From: David L. Norris [mailto:dlnorris@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:10 PM
To: ccgca@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CCGC] Antigeo violence

Hey everyone,

I hope that my initial joke about a dead guy geocach was not taken
wrong.  I was not promoting violence nor making any form of
suggestion, I was only trying to make light of the problem using
extreme excessive humor with a REAL problem.  If you look at
Bakersfield (93307 area code) you will see 3147 geocaches in a 100
mi radius, but if you change that to a 25 mi radius or 10 mi radius
you get just a handful of caches in the real area.  Went 4 of that
handful disappear, this becomes a problem.  I more wanted people to
brainstorm and figure out how to better protect their caches, as
owner of several caches that I put a lot of time into, I sense the
disappointment of the people who placed the original caches.  That
is why when I came across the "Muggled" caches I did my best to
restock their caches.  I heard combination locks as a possible
solution so that you might at least have the e mail list of those
who requested the combination and I mentioned making them premium
membership only, but doing so you would not encourage beginners to
continue since there would be less for them to find.  I hope this is
isolated, just the way I wish that taggers are only kids bent on
property destruction for a short period of time, as  they will grow
out of it and go forth with their lifes.  I don't have many
solutions, only questions and concerns.

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
ccgca group:

What should our next Geocaching event be?

   o Beach Partay
   o BBQ at local park
   o Pizza Night
   o Other- please state


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ccgca/surveys?id=1742460

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
ccgca group:

What should our next Geocaching event be?

  o Beach Partay
  o BBQ at local park
  o Pizza Night
  o Other- please state


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ccgca/surveys?id=1742460

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I understood we were having a CITO event on April 16th, but I have not
received any notification of it for our group.  Where, what to bring,
etc. please?

I understood we were having a CITO event on April 16th, but I have not
received any notification of it for our group.  Where, what to bring,
etc. please?

It would be great if we were having a CITO Event on April 16th this year, but there has been none announced in our area. 

There are only 2 CITO Events posted in all of California for this weekend.  So if you don't mind the drive you can attend one in Modesto called

CVC CITO Event  waypoint: GCBBC, or go to the LA area to help with "The Hollywood Sign" Cache Cleanup  waypoint: GCNAVY.  

 

Your best option however is to wait until Sat. April 23rd and go to the San Jose area for Trail Days: Almaden Quicksilver  waypoint: GCMZPY where geocachers will gather to help rebuild the New Almaden Trail in Almaden Quicksilver County Park.

 

- Chickasaw

"David L. Norris" <dlnorris@...> wrote:

I understood we were having a CITO event on April 16th, but I have not
received any notification of it for our group.  Where, what to bring,
etc. please?

Well, we're a little late for a CITO Event, but that doesn't mean we
can't get together:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1e6cedb8-36d5-
47fc-9ab0-3b60e9fa2a4a

Hope to see everyone there :)

- Touchstone

Let's try again.  Marky showed me a cute trick to shorten those lengthy
URL's so they don't wrap around like that.  Try the link below:

http://tinyurl.com/bhxoc

- Touchstone



--- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "touchstone12002" <msmelser@m...> wrote:
>
> Well, we're a little late for a CITO Event, but that doesn't mean we
> can't get together:
>
> http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1e6cedb8-36d5-
> 47fc-9ab0-3b60e9fa2a4a
>
> Hope to see everyone there :)
>
> - Touchstone

Here is the episode summary for Sunday night's episode of Law and
Order: Criminal Intent for those who are interested. From the NBC
website:
*********************************
THE UNBLINKING EYE   

9pm 2005-05-08    ALL NEW!

STREET SHOOTINGS RAISE PUBLIC OUTCRY AS POLICE PROBE FEMALE STALKER --
AND HIGH-TECH TREASURE HUNT GAME -- After a young actor Mike, (guest
star Jeffrey Hephner) is wounded and his fiancee is shot dead on the
street, Detectives Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) and Eames (Kathryn Erbe)
are pointed towards the surviving victim's former girlfriend, who is
known to have stalked him. The key, however, might turn on their probe
of "geocaching," a high-tech treasure-hunt game that could yield vital
clues. As the media and public mourn the man's tragic loss, the police
want to take another look at some of his acting buddies, especially one
who never lets go of his Palm Pilot. Jamey Sheridan and Courtney B.
Vance also star.  TV-14




----------------
I want to tell you the ocean knows this, that life
in its jewel boxes is endless as the sand, impossible
to count, pure, and made the jellyfish full of light
and untied its knot, letting its musical threads fall
from a horn of plenty made of infinite mother-of-pearl.

-Pablo Neruda

Where does one go about purchasing the camouflage duct tape?
-Susie (Coralgeo)
---------------
The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
land and water.

-Rachel Carson

Where does one go about purchasing the camouflage duct tape?
-Susie (Coralgeo)
---------------
The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
land and water.

-Rachel Carson

Cammo duct tape can be found at California WalMarts, its Duck brand, and you can
find it in the hardware section with all the rest of the duct tape, not in the
hunting section.  WalruZ swears by the stuff...

Corby/Bucky

Gabrielle <go2garrett@...> wrote:

>I asked J & S Suppliers if they had camo tape when I was down there in March
and they did not carry it.  I bought my camo tape at Wal-Mart in Texas, but have
not been to a California Wal-Mart.
>
>Good luck!
>- Chickasaw
>
>Susie Cochran-Marquez <susie@...> wrote:
>Where does one go about purchasing the camouflage duct tape?
>-Susie (Coralgeo)
>---------------
>The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
>an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
>land and water.
>
>-Rachel Carson
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ccgca/
>  
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>ccgca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

__________________________________________________________________
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Thanks to everyone for the suggestions on where to find the camo tape. I had
looked at
J&S in Moss Landing, but they must have been out when I was there. Online is
definitely a
possibility, but I was looking for instant gratification  :-). I was lucky
enough to get a
chance to visit WalMart this weekend (always a treat for a Texas girl like me)
and picked up
a roll. Look for it soon on a geocache near you! -Coralgeo

Apologies for the cross-postings.

Just wanted to let everyone know that Shake Your Bootie has now been
upgraded with a big .50 cal ammo can (J&S was out of the "regulars"),
fresh items, and a new cache description webpage. I have now claimed it
as an unofficial Earthcache. You can read all about it at
http://tinyurl.com/azt7o.

Special thanks go to Kealia, Touchstone and Sgt Stitches who have been
out there fairly recently (check out their logs if you haven't read
them - note to future cachers...cross the creek at the beginning of the
Aptos Creek Trail to follow the true trail), and whose trade items are
contributing to the "worthiness" of this cache.

-Susie
---------------
The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
land and water.

-Rachel Carson

(apologies for the cross-postings)

Hi everyone,
We have received a message from a Florida geocacher who has connections
in the Santa Cruz area. 2LuknF8 is the owner of Cliffhanger Jog and Log
Micro on West Cliff Dr.  He will be in the area and is interested in
getting together for some caching on July 9. Would anyone be interested
in getting together a group for that day? He recently attended
GeoWoodstock III and I'm sure will be filled with some wonderful
stories.
-Susie

This is what I sent him:

> Hi 2LuknF8,
> I'm the geocacher who gave your Cliff Hanger Jog and Log Micro a
> little TLC. I've still got the old log here on my desk for you. I
> understand that you'll be in Santa Cruz on July 8/9 and were possibly
> interested in doing some geocaching. I'm think we can get some folks
> together for a group hunt or two if you're interested. I'm going to
> post your request to our local Yahoo! groups, GeocachingSantaCruz and
> CCGCA, and see what kind of business I can drum up. Please feel free
> to contact me at susie@....
> -Susie (Coralgeo)

---------------
The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
land and water.

-Rachel Carson

Hi all,
Gabrielle (Chickasaw) and I are going to do a mini death-march on
Sunday (July 17). We plan on putting my car at Waddell Beach early in
the morning, and then taking Gabrielle's car up to Big Basin HQ. From
there we will hike down the Skyline to the Sea Trail and plan on
grabbing the following geocaches and letterboxes:

Greyt Berry Creek Falls
#5 of STS Series Letterboxes (see letterboxing.org -- box might be
missing)
Maden Voyage
Waddell Creek Cache
#4 STS letterbox near Waddell Creek Cache
Canada de Salud
#2 STS letterbox near the Horse Camp
#1 STS letterbox near the Hwy 1 gate (possibly)

Other stops along Hwy 1 south before turning off at Bonny Doon to head
back to HQ may include:
Shelob's Stair
Shark's Tooth (I hear the Cache Medic may join us for this one)
Go To Jail

And there might be a new placement or two along the way!

We are inviting those who want to join us. Gabrielle has one commitment
in the morning, but the aim is to be at the Big Basin HQ at 10am to
begin the trek. If you would like to come, please let us know ASAP as
we'll need to work out car pool arrangements and such.

-Coralgeo and Chickasaw
---------------
The shore is an ancient world, for as long as there has been
an earth and sea, there has been this place of the meeting of
land and water.

-Rachel Carson

On Jul 14, 2005, at 8:24 PM, touchstone12002 wrote:

> Some possible interest here...
>
> A few questions though.
>
> 1. How far is it?

It's approximately 10 mi from Big Basin HQ to Hwy 1. See
virtualparks.org for a free download of the Big Basin SP map.

> 2. Any significant elevation gains (I'm assuming it's mostly
> downhill)?

No significant elevation gains. It's not completely downhill, but I've
hiked it before. I figure if I can do it anyone can.

> 3. How much PO?

I don't remember any problem areas when I went to replace Canada. There
won't be any problems on the fire road portion. Unknown what it will be
like from HQ to Berry Creek but I don't anticipate any problems.

> 4. Is it suitable for six year olds, or six year olds on pack animal
> parents shoulders?

Ian has more energy than I do. LOL  He shouldn't have any problems
(especially if he gets to ride occasionally)

> 5. Any other kids in attendance (or is the point to get away from
> them)?

No kids as of yet, but that doesn't mean they can't come if you think
they can make the distance.

> TIA
>
> - Touchstone
>

Are there are any geocaching coin enthusists in the Central Coast
group?  If so, I put a GBES 2005 rally coin (check out GCMKC5 if you
are unfamiliar with it) in the King City Travel Bug Inn (GCJ39X), free
for the taking.  First come, first served, and enjoy!

"Free for the taking.  First come, first served, and enjoy!"

A true rarity... I made a stop there tonight. Thanks to WildOates.
Picked up the coin, and left something White and 4WD in the King City
Travel Bug Inn.  The WJTB has been slow to make appearances in
Monterey County.  First come, first served for this easy WJTB grab as
well.

Wish I was still in town to get the WJTB, but alas!  I am back in
Sacramento today.  Enjoy the coin, it's a beauty!

On Jul 17, 2005, at 10:14 PM, mon2reyca wrote:

> "Free for the taking.  First come, first served, and enjoy!"
>
>  A true rarity... I made a stop there tonight. Thanks to WildOates. 
>  Picked up the coin, and left something White and 4WD in the King City
>  Travel Bug Inn.  The WJTB has been slow to make appearances in
>  Monterey County.  First come, first served for this easy WJTB grab as
>  well.
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  ▪   Visit your group "ccgca" on the web.
>  
>  ▪   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ccgca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

Just a cross posting with the Santa Cruz Goup.  Sunday, August 14, at
3:00 pm at Peter B's right off the Monterey Plaza (about 200 ft from
America Offline Cache).  Nice family style brew pub.  All ages welcome
and will run a couple of hours, maybe a bit more.  I also have a
handful of White Jeep Travel Bugs for those that love collecting the
Icons on GC.com :)

http://tinyurl.com/b797q

And here's the appetizer:

http://tinyurl.com/7nfql

Hope to see everyone at the first, and only the crazy ones at the
second ;)

- Touchstone

Pardon the spam for those on both Monterey Bay groups.

Still a couple of months off, but if you're like me, you have to plan
these things well in advance.  Just a heads up for anyone interested in
getting up to Yosemite in October.

http://tinyurl.com/8vrgg

- Touchstone