Ponzi schemes have been run for years and many still plague the born again
community.  Such schemes usually just prey on the poor and ignorant - but
in the case of the "New Era" scandal many groups with big money were badly
hurt.  I know of churches still recovering from having to return money they
"had doubled" and already spent.  There's a Pastor in Florida who has a one
of these going where people just mail in envelopes of money.  It's just a
matter of time before they all collapse.  Ponzi schemes decimated the Albanian
economy shortly after they were free of communism - the people's only crime
was ignorance and perhaps greed.  I object to Dennis and Mike preying on
the dealer network in this way. If anyone still wants to participate call
Charlie Spradlin @ 317-896-9354 and say that you want to FAST TRACK into Mike
Hall’s downline.   The following are more points on the subject from Bob:

Bob Dubner wrote:
>
> Not only does it not sound legal, it isn't.
>
> It is, pure and simple, a Ponzi pyramid scheme.  Since they are essentially
> impossible to implement without using the US Mail, they violate Federal mail
> fraud laws and thus come under the purview of the Federal Bureau of
> Investigation, at least if I understand the laws properly.
>
> I didn't examine it too closely, any more than I examine free energy claims
> too closely.
>
> Obviously, the big payoff for each individual comes when they bubble up to
> the top level, with 3**7 = 2,187 people each sending up $40 checks to the
> tune of a nice maximum of $87,480.
>
> The problem, as always, is for the people on the bottom of the pyramid at
> that point. In order for each of them to arrive at the top of one of 2,187
> separate seven-level pyramids, there have to be an additional seven
> levels -- the total number of people in the bases of all those pyramids now
> has to total 4,782,969 (which is about two percent of the total population),
> and the total amount of money that has moved upstream is up to well over two
> hundred billion dollars.  Toss in the $44 that you pay up one level, and the
> $46 that goes to the credit card company, and you have close to a billion
> dollars flying around.
>
> Those 4.8 million people at the bottom of the second full pyramid won't see
> profit until the bottom layer gets up to 3**21 people. That's just about 10
> billion people, or twice the current population of the planet. The total
> money involved at that point would be comparable to the U.S. government's
> annual budget.
>
> Is this a scam, or an opportunity to Save The Planet?  Your call. I won't be
> buying in, myself.

--
    sincerely,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic

It's strange, Dennis took down a lot of investors in a scheme that
smelled of multilevel marketing before he was inspired by Joe Newman
to get into pitching Free Energy.  In that operation, Pat Robertson claims
Dennis tricked him out of $150,000 - also Dennis claimed the design came from
God and had a magic number of 2000 participants.

   anyhow, sounds like Dennis is trying something like that again - someone on
loyalist, Mike Hall's email list forwarded the following which doesn't sound
legal to me:

=================================

A Message from BWT/UCSA
People who contact our web site http://ucsofa.com/ are always asking how they
could help
bring these amazing technologies to market.  Well, here is a NO risk way to
help our project
and maybe make a lot of money with very little effort.  Following is Dennis
Lee’s opinion
about this system that I thought you may be interested in.  If after reading
this you want to get
involved you can follow the directions listed.  Also if you are SERIOUS and
want to get on
a Fast-Track to get moving very quickly, you need to call Charlie Spradlin at
317-896-9354 and tell him that you want to join Mike Halls downline and want
to be
Fast-Tracked, he will show you how and take real good care of you!  Please
don’t call
Charlie unless you plan on signing up and want to strap yourself to a rocket.
If you do not
wish this information please forgive the emailing.

Following is a way to make some SERIOUS money and help fund “Free Electricity”
Research AT THE SAME TIME!!  Charlie made over $10,000.00 in his first month
(OCT
98-NOV-98) and is now supporting ministries all over the country!
         A personal letter from Dennis Lee…   “How you could help”

As the dealers in our marketing network could tell you, I do not normally like
or recommend
any sort of multi-level programs. I have been approached with every hair
brained scheme
going. I have NEVER promoted any of them!  Usually, no matter how well
structured or
clever they are, it comes down to a matter of those who get involved trusting
the creators of
the program to be honest. It is all structured so that if it works as planned
all the guys up line,
down line, and in between the lines make money like crazy. More often than
not, though, it
does not go as planned and the guy who is going to be paying everybody just
decides to take
whatever money is in the pot and quit. What went wrong? The guy was not really
honest or it
just did not go as hoped. Sometimes it goes great while the guy at the top
claims it did not,
and skips out with a fortune. How do you know? Either way, it boils down to
trusting the guy
at the top.

  That is one of the reasons why I never recommended any of the hundreds of
multi-level
opportunities that came along. But I just found one that I have to admit is
more safe than any I
have seen. I actually got involved in it (which I never do). It is an
International discount
buying service. The product almost never makes any difference to a multi-level
program.
The way this one is structured, however, you do not have to trust the operator
of the program
for getting your money back, or the return from the growth of the network. It
costs $130 to get
involved. That is three money orders sent three different places. One for $44
sent to the
person who sold you on getting involved. One for $40 to a person seven levels
up line from
you (to give that person profit). The third is $46 for the company that runs a
discount buying
card program (you get your own membership card to get discounts on purchases
at locations
world wide). So, you make out a money order to give to the guy who got you in
(or hand him
$44 in cash). If he gets three people in then he obviously got all his money
back ($44 x 3=
$132). Then you have to send a $40 money order to the guy at the top of a
seven level list.
This is the growth income to the guy who initiated the tree. So, your money is
given directly
back to you by those who you get involved, and your profit comes directly to
you from the
729 people they each got involved for a potential of 2,187 people in total
(seven levels
down the road). You directly pay someone back up  the line for his patience in
setting up the
down line and waiting for it to grow. If it grows with everyone getting in
finding three
people to get in, he will be getting $40 money orders from strangers at some
point in the
future to the tune of up to $87,480 and a bonus position to make that up to
$116,640 worth.
The other $46 money order goes to the discount buying service that initiated
the program and
is maintaining a program buying service with a growing world wide membership
of millions
of members with millions of participating merchants also world wide.

  I was entered into this by a friend who wanted to help us find an income for
the program.
What a friend! I have already not only gotten all my money back in a few
weeks, but I have
more than tripled my investment in $40 checks that are already coming to me
from people
down the line. I just sit back and collect money orders now. It works! This is
very
remarkable. I do not have to trust somebody running the program to get paid.
As people come
in they automatically pay off the next person on the seventh level. I NEVER
have, even one
time, endorsed a multi-level program! But, I am more than happy to tell you
that this appears
to be the real deal! If you are willing to get into this by finding three
other people who have
$130 who know three other people, we can get the information on how to do it
to you right
away!  For every one of you who do this, it could mean up to $87,480 or
$116,640 for
yourself and at the same time, help us with research capital to make this a
better world. If
you signed up 30 people who had $130 and (three friends each) you could sign
yourself up
under us 10 times and possibly become worth over a million dollars in
potential $40 money
orders coming in from strangers to yourself without paying out any more than
your initial
$130 by rolling over the $44 that comes directly to you from your sales.  We
could possibly
raise over one million dollars to develop technologies that could save the
environment for
everyone.  If people who wish to help us took this serious, then we could have
all the
research capital we need.  You can get into this yourself and wait for up to
$116,640 to
come to you through your three friends and three of their friends...(to the
seventh level). Of
course, your friends can not possibly lose money, and they may earn the same
$116,640 you
do. We have all the details for you to get involved and if you want more
information we will
gladly email it to you. This looks really good! It is working for me right
now...Dennis Lee
            Get out of debt by helping us introduce in the United States the
                         Countdown International Card
         Accepted in over 100 Nations and Millions of Merchants Worldwide!
                           By Using Future Strategies
                      PENTAGONO’S SUCCESS FORMULA
           generate up to $116,640.00 usd for yourself and others, introduce
       The Countdown Card, to those with a desire for saving and making money.
             Start earning immediate Cash Dollars by using the tools below.

1.    Call 3-minute audio Hot-line 301-951-5369, do #3 below & have friends do
same.
2.    Call the fax-on-demand Service from your fax machine @ 703-904-7760 /
document #
100 and follow instructions.  Now get started by calling or emailing the
person who
introduced you!
3.    Buy Your Certificate from the person who originally introduced this
blessing to you,
then fax a record of your membership as instructed and then mail a hardcopy.
To buy a
Countdown Catalog: 1-800-521-9589. Internet site: http://www.future.it/
4.    Make a (name list) of people who you know and have them call the three
minute
Hot-line number, be on the phone with them if possible.  It’ll help you and
others out of debt!

5.    Sell your three certificates and receive back your original investment,
plus be the proud
owner of a Countdown International Card, & receive the financial rewards.
6.    Teach just three people these 5 steps correctly so you all can begin
earning wealth by
introducing the Countdown Card to America and elsewhere.  Just help three
other people on
their way to earning $116,640.00 cash, so you can earn as well

Remember, to FAST TRACK, call Charlie Spradlin @ 317-896-9354 and
say that you want to FAST TRACK into Mike Hall’s downline.  He’ll help
you get started fast!!  Charlie can get you going IMMEDIATELY using
your credit card (there will be an additional $10.00 charge, but it is well
worth it!)

Again, I have never contacted you or anyone about any program, but this one is
too good to
be missed and I would be re-miss not to share it.

Thanks for your time. (also, please email me if you call Charlie)

Mike Hall

======================================
--
    sincerely,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.phact.org/e/dennis.html

A Student History of the World
Richard Lederer / St. Paul's School

One of the fringe benefits of being an English or History teacher is
receiving the occasional jewel of a student blooper in an essay. I have
pasted together the following "history" of the world from certifiably
genuine student bloopers collected by teachers throughout the United
States, from eighth grade to college level. Read carefully, and you will
learn a lot.
***************************************************************** *****

The inhibitants of Egypt were called mummies. They lived in Sarah Dessert
and traveled by Camelot. The climate of the Sarah is such that the
inhibitants have to live elsewhere, so certain areas of the dessert are
cultivated by irritation. The Egyptians built the Pyramids in the shape
of a huge triangular cube. The Pyramids are a range of mountains between
France and Spain.

The Bible is full of interesting caricatures. In the first book of the
Bible, Guinesses, Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree. One of
their children, Cain, asked "Am I my brother's son?" God asked Abraham to
sacrifice Isaac on Mount Montezuma. Jacob, son of Isaac, stole his
brother's birthmark. Jacob was a patriarch who brought up his twelve sons
to be patriarchs, but they did not take to it. One of Jacob's sons,
Joseph, gave refuse to the Israelites.

Pharaoh forced the Hebrew slaves to make bread without straw. Moses led
them to the Red Sea, where they made unleaved bread, which is bread made
without any ingredients. Afterwards, Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to
get the ten commandments. David was a Hebrew king skilled at playing the
liar. He fought with the Philatelists, a race of people who lived in
Biblical times. Solomon, one of David's sons, had 500 wives and 500
porcupines.

Without the Greeks, we wouldn't have history. The Greeks invented three
kinds of columns - Corinthian, Doric and Ironic. They also had myths. A
myth is a female moth. One myth says that the mother of Achilles dipped
him in the River Stynx until he became intolerable. Achilles appears in
"The Illiad", by Homer. Homer also wrote the "Oddity", in which Penelope
was the last hardship that Ulysses endured on his journey. Actually,
Homer was not written by Homer but by another man of that name.

Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice.
They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock.

In the Olympic Games, Greeks ran races, jumped, hurled the biscuits, and
threw the java. The reward to the victor was a coral wreath. The
government of Athen was democratic because the people took the law into
their own hands. There were no wars in Greece, as the mountains were so
high that they couldn't climb over to see what their neighbors were
doing. When they fought the Parisians, the Greeks were outnumbered
because the Persians had more men.

Eventually, the Ramons conquered the Greeks. History call people Romans
because they never stayed in one place for very long. At Roman banquets,
the guests wore garlic in their hair. Julius Caesar extinguished himself
on the battlefields of Gaul. The Ides of March killed him because they
thought he was going to be made king. Nero was a cruel tyrant who would
torture his poor subjects by playing the fiddle to them.

Then came the Middle Ages. King Alfred conquered the Dames, King Arthur
lived in the Age of Shivery, King Harlod mustarded his troops before the
Battle of Hastings, Joan of Arc was cannonized by George Bernard Shaw,
and the victims of the Black Death grew boobs on their necks. Finally,
the Magna Carta provided that no free man should be hanged twice for the
same offense.

In midevil times most of the people were alliterate. The greatest writer
of the time was Chaucer, who wrote many poems and verse and also wrote
literature. Another tale tells of William Tell, who shot an arrow through
an apple while standing on his son's head.

The Renaissance was an age in which more individuals felt the value of
their human being.

Martin Luther was nailed to the church door at Wittenberg for selling
papal indulgences. He died a horrible death, being excommunicated by a
bull. It was the painter Donatello's interest in the female nude that
made him the father of the Renaissance. It was an age of great inventions
and discoveries. Gutenberg invented the Bible. Sir Walter Raleigh is a
historical figure because he invented cigarettes. Another important
invention was the circulation of blood. Sir Francis Drake circumcised the
world with a 100-foot clipper.

The government of England was a limited mockery. Henry VIII found walking
difficult because he had an abess on his knee. Queen Elizabeth was the
"Virgin Queen." As a queen she was a success. When Elizabeth exposed
herself before her troops, they all shouted "hurrah." Then her navy went
out and defeated the Spanish Armadillo.

The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespeare.
Shakespeare never made much money and is famous only because of his
plays. He lived in Windsor with his merry wives, writing tragedies,
comedies and errors. In one of Shakespeare's famous plays, Hamlet rations
out his situation by relieving himself in a long soliloquy. In another,
Lady Macbeth tries to convince Macbeth to kill the King by attacking his
manhood. Romeo and Juliet are an example of a heroic couplet. Writing at
the same time as Shakespeare was Miguel Cervantes. He wrote "Donkey
Hote". The next great author was John Milton. Milton wrote "Paradise
Lost." Then his wife died and he wrote "Paradise Regained."

During the Renaissance America began. Christopher Columbus was a great
navigator who discovered America while cursing about the Atlantic. His
ships were called the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Fe. Later the
Pilgrims crossed the Ocean, and that was called the Pilgrim's Progress.
When they landed at Plymouth Rock, they were greeted by Indians, who came
down the hill rolling their war hoops before them. The Indian squabs
carried porposes on their back. Many of the Indian heroes were killed,
among with their cabooses, which proved very fatal to them. The winter of
1620 was a hard one for the settlers. Many people died and many babies
were born. Capitain John Smith was responsible for all this.

One of the causes of the Revolutionary Wars was the English put tacks in
their tea. Also, the colonists would send their pacels through the post
without stamps. During the War, Red Coats and Paul Revere was throwing
balls over stone walls. The dogs were barking and the peacocks crowing.
Finally, the colonists won the War and no longer had to pay for taxis.

Delegates from the original thirteen states formed the Contented
Congress. Thomas Jefferson, a Virgin, and Benjamin Franklin were two
signers of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin had gone to Boston
carrying all his clothes in his pocket and a loaf of bread under each
arm. He invented electricity by rubbing cats backwards and declared "a
horse divided against itself cannot stand." Franklin died in 1790 and is
still dead.

George Washington married Matha Curtis and in due time became the Father
of Our Country. Then the Constitution of the United States was adopted to
secure domestic hostility. Under the Constitution the people enjoyed the
right to keep bare arms.

Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's mother
died in infancy, and he was born in a log cabin which he built with his
own hands. When Lincoln was President, he wore only a tall silk hat. He
said, "In onion there is strength." Abraham Lincoln write the Gettysburg
address while traveling from Washington to Gettysburg on the back of an
envelope. He also signed the Emasculation Proclamation, and the
Fourteenth Amendment gave the ex-Negroes citizenship. But the Clue Clux
Clan would torcher and lynch the ex-Negroes and other innocent victims.
On the night of April 14, 1865, Lincoln went to the theater and got shot
in his seat by one of the actors in a moving picture show. The believed
assinator was John Wilkes Booth, a supposedly insane actor. This ruined
Booth's career.

Meanwhile in Europe, the enlightenment was a reasonable time. Voltare
invented electricity and also wrote a book called "Candy". Gravity was
invented by Isaac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the Autumn, when
the apples are falling off the trees.

Bach was the most famous composer in the world, and so was Handel. Handel
was half German, half Italian, and half English. He was very large. Bach
died from 1750 to the present. Beethoven wrote music even though he was
deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music. He took long walks in the
forest even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven expired in 1827
and later died for this.

France was in a very serious state. The French Revolution was
accomplished before it happened. The Marseillaise was the theme song of
the French Revolution, and it catapulted into Napoleon. During the
Napoleonic Wars, the crowned heads of Europe were trembling in their
shoes. Then the Spanish gorillas came down from the hills and nipped at
Napoleon's flanks. Napoleon became ill with bladder problems and was very
tense and unrestrained. He wanted an heir to inheret his power, but since
Josephine was a baroness, she couldn't bear him any children.

The sun never set on the British Empire because the British Empire is in
the East and the sun sets in the West. Queen Victoria was the longest
queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. Her reclining years and finally
the end of her life were exemplatory of a great personality. Her death
was the final event which ended her reign.

The nineteenth century was a time of many great inventions and thoughts.
The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers to spring up.
Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick Raper, which did the work of a
hundred men. Samuel Morse invented a code for telepathy. Louis Pasteur
discovered a cure for rabbis. Charles Darwin was a naturalist who wrote
the "Organ of the Species". Madman Curie discovered radium. And Karl Marx
became one of the Marx Brothers.

The First World War, caused by the assignation of the Arch-Duck by a
surf, ushered in a new error in the anals of human history

________________________________________________________________
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On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:39:49 EST Boytrell@... writes:
>Hi Jay,
>I think you are right about refrigerant engine using otherwise wasted
heat.
>I know that some places burn natural gas in Gas turbines to make
electricity
>and I had thought of doing exactly what your saying by letting those
turbines
>exhaust their wasted heat into the boiler of  another steam engine that
uses
>refrigerant.

Yes, coal fired electric plants that I have seen use several stages of
turbines along the same concept. But the end of all those stages is still
extremely hot.
>
>As for the Fischer engine, I wish there could be such a thing but I
don't yet
>believe in it.  I think it is a theoritical thing.  I can't believe that
the
>steam would condense so perfectly and drip out the weep hole like that.
I
>know that when steam leaves a steam engine or a Tea kettle exhausting
>into the atmosphere it don't condense right away like it does in a
theoritical
>Fischer engine.  What do you think?

It's been a long time since I worked out the thermo numbers, but the
conclusion was that if water were injected into the cylinder at about
700f degrees and allowed to expand pushing the piston until there were
enough room to let the water expand as far as it wants to (considering
the lower pressure and all) the temperature would drop fast and
eventually the water could not all turn into steam because the temp would
be too low. The mid cycle temp would be quite a bit colder than ambient
and would give some assist in recondensing the fluid.


>What did you think of my artical entitled ( Many people were half way
there )?

I think there is nothing wrong with a mid-cycle point being lower than
the lowest available ambient temp. It would not be useful as being the T2
for the system because there is more work required in maintaining the low
temp than would be returned from the engine.

One method that does work well in dry climates is taking ground water at
the lowest temp natrually available and evaporating some of it like in a
swamp cooler to get a temp quite a bit lower than would be available
otherwise.

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I made an earlier attempt at this by using a well known name in the title but
I have decided that the readers should learn that said person was not the
first to consider
powering an Engine with a Heat pump.  I will not use his name, but for his
initials us
Radio Amateurs would say Delta Lima.  And yes this subject and sketches were
in
the books over a hundred years before this Delta Lima was born. They did'nt
succeed
either.
I myself started on it in 1979 and solved it in 1980 while Delta Lima was
still selling
Heat pumps.  My problem was that I did not have the facilities to build it or
find anyone else who could.

The books say that it is impossible to do this.  Their words are " NO ONE HAS
EVER DONE IT SO IT MUST BE IMPOSSIBLE"  I'm not kidding, go look it up.
Those words have stood for at least 170 years.
Now before I show you how to do this I want it understood that I do not want
your money. I want you to build this thing and show the world that you did it.
I am 62 years old, not in good health and I don't want this thing to die with
me.  But I don't want you to even try unless you understand the concept.

IT BEGINS HERE.
Put a Heat pump that uses refrigerant on the left end of a shaft.  Now put a
Steam engine that uses refrigerant on the right end of the shaft so that it
can drive the Heat pump while the Heat pump supplys the Heat for the Heat
engine.  Now that is what people have been doing and expecting it to work.
They do not understand that the Engine efficiency is the reciprocal of the
Heat pump  COP hp between the same two reservoirs.    I will explain it
better.  Just picture in your mind a Heat pump squeezing
5 horsepower of heat out of the air for 1 horsepower of work input.  Thats how
it works.  Now picture that same 5 horsepower of heat going back down through
the same Heat pump backwards.  How many horsepower of heat is it going to take
to repay the 1 horsepower of work back?  Thats right "FIVE"  And on a cold day
if 1 horsepower of work gives only 2 horsepower of heat then going backwards
it'l take that 2 horsepower of heat to pay back the 1 horsepower of work.
Now you can see that the reverse mode can not deliver more work than went into
the forward mode because the heat can not travel any further down hill than it
went up.  It's just that simple.
Now I will show you just how close some people have been to the answer (
almost fell into it )  but never saw it.  This is right out of one of my
books. The auther says that you could use a second Refrigerator to create a
cold reservoir for the engine that would be colder than the ambient
temperature air but that the engine can't power a Heat pump and a refrigerator
too. Now that poor guy could'nt see that he could use the input of the Heat
pump to create the cold reservoir and do it at no extra expence because that
Compressor don't care where it's next heat is comming from.
All you need to do is build a Heat exchanger for the engine output and cool it
with the liquid refrigerant that came out of the Heat exchanger that supplyed
the heat for the engine input. This will condense the refrigerant  that comes
out of the engine so that it can go to the feed pump.
Now that refrigerant that absorbed heat out of the condenser  should go
through an ambient temperature atmospheric heat exchanger  on  it's way back
to the Compressor to absorb an amount of heat that is equal to that which was
converted into work by the Engine.
By now it should be obvious that if you do this my way the heat will be able
to travel further down a temperature hill than where the work of compression
began in pushing it up hill.  Yes it is simple, after you once understand it.
( note )  Don't take this to your local physicist, All they can say is "it
won't work, it won't work, it won't work."   They have memorized those
antiquated books.    If you want some real thought on it then take the left
side to one Engineer and ask what you can expect out of the hot reservoir and
the cold reservoir.  Then take those answers to another Engineer and ask him
what a condenser equipped steam engine operating on the same kind of
refrigerant will do.  I rest my case.

If you want more details please let me know.  I'm trying to learn how to use
my new Scanner.   Please Don't send money. I hate the site of it.
Sinserely, Boyd Cantrell    Boytrell@...

Dennis Lee email list people:


during the last 10 years of "we will release the free energy machine very
soon" there have been some memorable creative excuses along the way:

"we can't make it with out Dr. Fisher - now where is that mad scientist" - one
of the newsletters said how Dennis was trying to track down Fisher because it
would be wrong to develop it with out him. These people tend to be a little bi
polar.

"I have to make sure the release of the free energy machine doesn't
destabilize the nation". In this appearance of altruism, Dennis claims to want
to avoid financial turmoil resulting from some of the energy industry taking a
hit.  This is pathetic since energy is just a small part of the total economy
- the energy "big boys" could go under - but the rest of the nation would have
such unprecedented gains that no one would notice.

"Wait a moment, let me just first solve that nuclear waste problem" A dealer
told me BWT got side tracked just trying to get the nuclear waste
neutralized.  -another unfulfilled promise. (please anyone be careful trying
to use the Browns gas machines to test this: if you vaporize a radioactive
source - sure you will no longer be able to measure it because you have
dispersed it into the air - but now you and witnesses will likely get cancer
from particulate alpha- source dust in your lungs. Alpha radiation sources are
not hard to get and safe when solid because they don't go through even paper.
But if you get alpha emitting dust particles in your lungs - it's very bad,
especially if you smoke )  By the way, if we just had free energy machines, we
could stop producing nuclear waste.

"Hold on, I got a better idea how to do this" - this is a neat dodge which let
frauds like John Keely (maybe even Tesla) and others just walk away from one
bogus design by letting them start over.  Rev. Bixler (who got fooled into
giving major air time) said Dennis said he didn't know which free energy
approach to use. We are now told the hot box powered car design is dropped in
favor of something even betters.

"I need millions of extra dollars"  The guy who claimed to have hundreds of
millions (but borrowed food money) was supposed to finance the mass
manufacture of the free energy machines.  Now of course there should be a few
publicly accessible prototypes before doing  this. But free energy claimants
are rarely open to giving demonstrations before educated people - no they want
to jump right into discussing mass production.  It's fun to imagine thousands
of machines making you rich - but much harder to get even one working.

"I don't want it falling into enemy hands" Dennis hasn't used this line very
recently.  I've heard free energy claimants hide behind this one in the past
.  It's part of the general conspiracy defense. There is a cult in Switzerland
who claims to have an FE machine, but they keep it secret to not allow the
military to get it. yeah right.

"We want to make sure we can make money off it"  Dennis hasn't played this
excuse very lately either - but it has worked well for other free energy
messiahs.  Newman and others have locked horns with patent office people for
years appearing to be defending his ownership of the technology. Suing people
over ownership rights or patent rights is a mark of distinction among FE
messiahs.

"the conspiracy is stopping me" - this used to be a big excuse of Dennis's
back in the early 90's for a while you'd hear nothing about free energy only
stories of his computer sabotaged, an investor trying to steal his stuff, a
phone company messing with him, etc.

"buy my air hammers and welders" lately, Dennis just plain doesn't talk about
the free energy machines. He's just pushing his dealers to promote
questionable products which already failed in the open market place.  A
carefully controlled communication channel with dealers seems to keep those
dealership payments still flowing in.

------------  that's it for now.     Anyone know what happened to Wade?  In
the interest of fairness,


OH  AN ANNOUNCEMENT:

   Tom Napier will discuss the physics (or rather, lack there of) Saturday,
January 23, at 2 pm, called "Hot air, hope and handwaving." This talk, by
physicist Tom Napier, will introduce you to some of the colorful characters
who have hoped, and still hope today, to achieve fame and fortune by finding
loopholes in the 175-year-old Second Law of Thermodynamics.  Tom will answer
their question, "The air contains lots of heat energy, why can't we use it?"
Along the way you will learn enough about heat engines to see where these
maverick engineers went wrong and to understand why none has a working
machine. On Feb. 20th, Walt Cuirle will speak on how we know if things are
impossible.
   Former rocket scientist, Tom Napier (my mentor for most science subjects)
will speak on the subject of heat based free energy machines.
Tom has attended a Dennis Lee presentation, been published in numerous
electronics journals, and has written a considerable amount on free energy and
browns gas. The meeting is in the Bensalem Public Library:
http://www.syc.org/phact/directions.html
We ask non-members or insane people to please refrain from carrying firearms
to the meeting.



--
    sincerely,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic

I just got an e-letter from Bob D Morris.  It had no e-mail address.  Does
anyone know it?
Sincerely, Boyd Cantrell

I subscribed to The BWT list and the Free energy list.  Both sent me welcoming
letters.  I then posted my Invention Disclosure to both.  It never got posted
at either Site. I see that today one Site has moved on to a new subject and
the other posted my name but not my artical.  If you people are determined to
not show the world my revelation then just tell me.  Don't play games with me.
I had assumed that you would give everyone a chance to speak their piece as
long as they did'nt flame etc.
  Sincerely,  Boyd Cantrell

Sir,

   My main point is that people have been going broke
for decades following any of the many "free energy messiahs".
I consider both Lee and Newman to have left out critical
information to investors.
If Joe or Dennnis have anything, I offer them lot's of money
for simple proof.  Why do they threaten to sue me when I
offer them thousands and all kinds of publicity for what
they imply is simple to demonstrate?
    If there are mistakes in any of my pages, please let
me know - I would like to fix them.  If you or anyone
would like to make a rebuttal - I've had an open offer
to post it for the last 2 years.  I wish I could forward
you some of the tear jerking mail from dennis dealers.
If I was so well funded, I could take out ads like Dennis
or have a web page as powerful as his.
--
    sincerely,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/freefaq.htm

--- the following is a post to the Newman email list:
> __________ wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-11-05 08:00:44 EST, you write:
> >
> > <<  If Joseph Newman and Dennis Lee succeed, billions of people will
benefit.
> > If Eric Kreig succeeds, Eric Kreig and his employers will benefit. >>
> >
> > Who's Dennis Lee?
> > Who's Eric Kreig's employer?
>
>  ------------
> Joe Watch:
>
> Dennis Lee is a farmer from Yakima, Washington.  He has a dream. He wants to
> develop a machine that will attach to your house and make all the electricity
you
> need, and more, free of operating cost.
>
> An interesting thing happens when you announce to the world that you have such
a
> dream.  Inventors come out of the woodwork and present various and sundry
> inventions which they have developed.  The result, in Dennis Lee's case, is
that
> he now has more than 100 inventions that others have presented to him, that
are
> in various stages of devilment.  Some of them merely need adequate marketing.
> Others have been suppressed.  Nearly all of them are healing, or
non-polluting.
>
> There are 2,000 dealers across the United States who are affiliated with
Dennis.
> I am one of them.  Another one has a web site to which I will refer you.
>
> www.jeffry.com
>
> UCSA (United Community Services of America) is the company Dennis has
established
> to service the dealer network.
>
> BWT (Better World Technologies) is the company that owns the rights to the
> technology.
>
> May I suggest that you go the the web site and have your eyes opened.
> --------
> Eric Kreig is a loud and obnoxious critic of Dennis Lee and Joseph Newman.  He
is
> well funded, and never has anything positive to say about either one of these
> men.  We have reason to believe that he is in the employ of the power
companies,
> who do not want their domain invaded.  Take what he says with a grain of salt,
> and then throw away the salt.
>
> If you have more questions, contact me again.
>
> _____

Hi folks,

Anyone wanting to get on the uncensored Dennis Lee email list can do so from:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt

   Although BWT seems to be going through a slow winding death, it's still too
early to try to predict an ending.  Dennis is at his best with his back to the
wall.  With his indomitable spirit, he can still coax money from investors
even with his record.  He can have 20 failures in a row and keep on plugging -
is that pathetic or inspirational?  I don't know.  I can appreciate his
failures - I have recently failed to get on any of the radio shows that ran
him.  I feel there is a Free Energy conspiracy - it's just against the voice
of reason.  I think the whole thing is about hope:  for me, I have this
strange hope that people can think rationally - but for Dennis, if he can just
instill a sense of hope in the dealers then things go on.
    I was thinking about a whole application of a hypothetical Fisher engine
that Dennis has over looked.  If the thing really did work, you could just run
the heat exchanger INSIDE a house while selling power to the electric company
and it would COOL your house!  That's right, if you ever did find a machine to
violate the 2nd law of thermo - it would essentially "make cold" while making
power.  But sadly, FE people can break laws of man but not laws of nature.

Joe Newman has been promising Free Energy (they debate over terms for it) for
about 20 years - and held national attention for a brief spell in the
mid 1980's.  Dennis Lee (since attending one of Newman's shows) has been
doing pretty much the same thing for over 10 years.
There are a number of fascinating parallels between Dennis Lee and Joe Newman.

The parallels are staggering:

Both have a slowly revolving dedicated core of followers who seem mostly
motivated by
to get rich while saving the world.

Both believe a large powerful conspiracy is keeping common people from having
their technology. They believe the conspiracy threatens their lives
, serves to discredit them and brainwashes mainstream engineers.

Both have taken in smaller amounts of money selling books or video tapes on
what their technology claims and history are (with long drawn out descriptions
of battles with the government and former allies)

Both have raised much larger amounts of money selling dealership rights to
investors in the 5 figure price range.

Both have held "free" revival style shows to demonstrate their technology to
people
(who seem to be better received by lessor educated people or conspiracy
believers.

Both have claimed to receive messages directly from God to be passed along to
specific people or the whole world.

Both offer long winded alternative theories or misapplications of science to
nurture belief in their proposals.

Both consider the entire engineering and scientific educational system to
be gravely mislead and in denial when it comes to their theories.

Both are very antagonistic towards any recent independent sources of
information on their activities and history.

Both promise demonstrations of free energy on a regular basis that simply do
not offer the kind of extraordinary evidence one would expect for such an
extraordinary claim. (such demonstrations still manage to convince investors)

Neither has been very open to facilitating educated qualified 3rd party people
to
make hands on evaluations of their devices. (Newman, while involved in a
lawsuit
-submitted to a court ordered test of his device which showed his device to be
only
70% efficient).  Both prefer to say their devices were already tested and they
lack time to entertain new investigations.

Both consider their lives to be in jeopardy and portray themselves to be
true patriots boldly holding out against evil forces.  They consider skeptics
to be lying traitors who will burn in hell.

Both seek out and get considerable support from the patriot movement.

Both claim that some scientists and engineers have claimed their devices do or
can work - but fail to aid investigators to contact them.

They both claim to have extracted excess energy from processes that
conventional science says would only lose net energy (Lee claims to be able to
get net energy from a system involving a heat pump and Newman from a system
involving a motor.

Both offer elaborate creative excuses why it has taken so long and why they
don't currently have a working prototype.

Neither limits themselves to just free energy claims but also make other
grandiose claims as well:
(Newman ran for president, predicts hurricanes, and contacts UFO's - where as
Lee claims to have been in UFO's and to be able to neutralize radioactive
material)

Both make full use of all media (newspapers, TV and radio) and operate openly
nationwide.

Neither is very adept in cyberspace, but both have loyalists who maintain
elaborate web sites which refuse to provide links to independent sources of
information:
   Lee www.ucsofa.com
and Soule: www.joseph_newman.com

They both have a number of former associates who have run afoul of them.

Both claim to work an incredible number of hours and have dedicated their
whole lives
(and that of their loyal spouses) to their efforts.

Now, how are they different:
Dennis has a long criminal record - I've heard Newman has no criminal record.
Lee's "theory" is simply wrong - Newman is too fringe to even be just wrong.
Lee's followers hide from skeptics, Newman's followers engage in open debate.
Newman has been at it longer, but Lee has far more followers.
Dennis is not willing to directly communicate with skeptics - Newman will,
but with much interspersed obscenity and general abuse.
Newman is quicker to resort to launch bogus lawsuits - Lee will only launch
counter suits.

-------- to be fair, I ran an earlier version of the list by Evan Soule - the
indefatigable defender of Joe Newman, and he offered the following rebuttal:


Dear Mr. Krieg (aka, 'Anonymous'),



>comparison review
>
>Joe Newman has been promising Free Energy (they debate over terms for it) for
>about 20 years - and held national attention for a brief spell in the
>mid 1980's.  Dennis Lee (since attending one of Newman's shows) has been
>doing pretty much the same thing for over 10 years.
>There are a number of fascinating parallels between Dennis Lee and Joe Newman.

Dear Mr. Krieg,

The comments I will make below are applicable to Joseph Newman.  I do not
in any way speak for, nor wish to speak for, Mr. Dennis Lee.

Your post consists of inaccuracies and misleading statements.  Joseph
Newman has never been "promising Free Energy."  He has never used this term
since he considers it scientifically inaccurate.

>
>The parallels are staggering:
>
>Both have a slowly revolving dedicated core of followers who seem mostly
>motivated by
>to get rich while saving the world.

The lack of parallels is hardly staggering. Mr. Krieg, if I was, to quote
your words, "motivated by to get rich," then I would hardly be spending my
time communicating with you, for instance.  Nor am I endeavoring to "save
the world" --- these are your own dramatic words which are fundamentally
misleading.  Joseph Newman's technology has the capability to revolutionize
our access to energy.  Whether and when we apply this knowledge and
technology across the world depends upon our ability as a species to be
open to new ideas and not be rigidly bound by previous paradigms.

>
>Both believe a large powerful conspiracy is keeping common people from having
>their technology. They believe the conspiracy threatens their lives
>, serves to discredit them and brainwashes mainstream engineers.

The A&E Network Special which featured Joseph Newman's work featured a
discussion of "power brokers and their olde boy networks" and addressed
this subject.  To assume that special energy interests (for instance) which
are heavily invested in existing technologies would welcome "with open
arms" a new technology that would obsolete and/or negatively impact
billions of dollars in capital investment as well as erode their capital
base --- is naive.  I seem to recall that during the 60s one popular
description of such "olde boy networks" was "the military/industrial
complex."  The name or popular description applied to such special interest
groups/networks is simply semantics.  To assume that such networks do not
exist through their PACS and influence-peddling in Washington, DC (for
instance), is to be naive.  And, once again your above statement is
misleading:  You stated that "Both believe a large powerful
conspiracy....brainwashes mainstream engineers."  (Some) mainstream
engineers have been brainsoiled by an educational system which places a
higher emphasis on memorization rather than honest and sincere questioning
of previously-held paradigms.  [Joseph Newman comments on this in his
discussions of our educational system.]

>
>Both have taken in dribbling amounts of money selling books or video tapes
>on what their
>technology claims and history are (with long drawn out descriptions of
>battles with
>the government and former allies)

Mr. Krieg, I find your usage of certain adjectives reflective of your
pathologically-sceptical attitude.  Case in point: "dribbling" amounts.
The word dribbling obviously has negative connotations of which, I presume
you are aware, and therefore used intentionally.  I would certainly prefer
to see an independent innovator marketing his own innovation via our
presumably free enterprise system (e.g., through the offering of his
published work) than a researcher who --- through having to depend upon
politically-induced tax money for his livelihood --- becomes, in effect, an
operational lackey of a politicians and political influence.

>
>Both have raised much larger amounts of money selling dealership rights to
>investors in the 5 figure price range.

Again, my remarks from the above paragraph are appropriate here.  In
accordance with our supposedly free enterprise system, this approach is one
method of raising capital to assist in developing the technology.

>
>Both have held "free" revivial style shows to demonstrate their technology
>to people
>(who seem to be better recieved by lessor educated people or conspiracy
>believers.

Mr. Krieg, this statement (as it applied to Joseph Newman and by virtue of
your pathological scepticism) is your own "pseudo-elitist put-down" of
anyone you find interested in Joseph Newman's work.  In Joseph Newman's
NON-"revivial(sic)" presentations of his technology, he has had dozens of
scientists, engineers, and technicians who have spoken out on his behalf
and on the operability of the technology.  I would hardly call these
individuals "lessor (sic) educated people".  And no doubt you have
personally interviewed everyone who has attended Joseph Newman's
presentations to personally ascertain if they are "conspiracy believers."
This would be a proper application of the Scientific Method to test your
"hypothesis".  If you have not done this --- then you are once again
engaged in your own form of pathologically sceptical 'revival ranting.'
Joseph Newman's presentations have also been attended by students,
engineers, professional technicians and business people.  No doubt you have
personally interviewed all of these people who have attended Joseph
Newman's presentations to personally and explicitly ascertain their
educational level.  Once again, Mr. Krieg, your above statement represents
additional, unsubstantiated, "pathologically sceptical ranting" on your
part.

>
>Both have claimed to recieve messages directly from God to be passed along to
>specific people or the whole world.

Joseph Newman (who was for most of his life an atheist) has his own sincere
and close relation to that which he perceives as "God".  He has presented
his own concepts in this regard and does so honestly.  It should be
historically noted that the great physicist Isaac Newton chose to include a
discussion of his personal relationship with "the nature of God" in Book
III of his scientific masterpiece, PRINCIPIA MATHEMATICA.  Joseph Newman
considers his "discussion on God" to be inseparable from the presentation
of his other scientific theories and technical processes.

>
>Both offer long winded alternative theories or misapplications of science to
>nurture belief in their proposals.

Mr. Krieg, your pathologically sceptical adjective "long-winded" is
obviously your opinion.  Since you have previously demonstrated no
fundamental understanding of Joseph Newman's Theory and Technical Process,
you are hardly in a position to determine what is or is not "long-winded."
>From my paradigm, your use of the term "long-winded" represents one
summation of your excuse for not having understood Joseph Newman's work.
At the time of its presentation in the 19th Century, there were also those
pathological sceptics who viewed the writings of Charles Darwin as
representative of "long-winded alternative theories or misapplications of
science."


>
>Both consider the entire engineering and scientific educational system to
>be gravely mislead and in denial when it comes to their theories.

Joseph Newman has specifically stated, more often than not, that our
present education system rewards memorization and punishes independent,
creative thought.  To quote Joseph Newman, "One has only to observe each
separate aspect of science --- physics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine,
etc. --- to see that the common denominator is the fact that, during their
instant of time in history, those creative individuals who made the
greatest positive contributions were generally persecuted or ridiculed by
their colleagues.  Many such contributors were never recognized during
their lifetimes for their achievements."  Joseph Newman then proceeds to
discuss the extent to which the educational system has made such behavior
possible.

>
>Both are very antagonistic towards any independent sources of information
>on their
>activities and history.

In fact, Joseph Newman encourages others to understand his technology and
conduct independent experiments; he has also stated that anyone is welcome
-- invited -- to construct their own prototypes for their use and
experimentation.

>
>Both promise demonstrations of free energy on a regular basis that simply do
>not offer the kind of extraordinary evidence one would expect for such an
>extraordinary claim. (such demonstrations still manage to convince investors)

Once again you have employed the scientifically inaccurate term "free
energy."  There is no such thing as "extraordinary" evidence --- this is a
semantic and scientific inaccuracy.  Evidence is evidence.  Period.  Either
it is evidence or it is not evidence --- developed in accordance with the
Scientific Method.  More than 30 scientists and engineers have verified the
evidence of the operability of Joseph Newman's technology and have signed
legal Affidavits to that effect.

>
>Neither has been very open to facilitating educated qualified 3rd party
>people to
>make hands on evaluations of their devices. (Newman, while involved in a
>lawsuit
>-submitted to a court ordered test of his device which showed his device
>to be only
>70% efficient).  Both prefer to say their devices were already tested and they
>lack time to entertain new investigations.

As stated above, Joseph Newman has obtained the Affidavits of more than 30
scientists and engineers (3rd party people) who have verified the
operability of his technology.  Joseph Newman's lawsuit (to which you refer
above) was against the patent office.  It was during the course of that
lawsuit that a Special Master (Technical Expert to the Court) specifically
stated that the:

"Evidence before the Patent and Trademark Office and this Court is
OVERWHELMING that Newman has built and tested a prototype of his invention
in which the output energy exceeds the external input energy; there is NO
contradictory factual evidence."

The "court-ordered test of his his device which showed his device to be
only 70% efficient" was a test conducted by three supposedly qualified 3rd
party individuals at the NBS (now NIST).  The results of this "test" have
proven the fact that these 3rd party individuals were hardly qualified to
conduct the test.  This NBS "test" has since been discredited by scientists
as well as in the presentation featured on the A&E Network Special.  For
instance, the three NBS individuals intentionally grounded EVERY single
test they conducted on the prototype --- even after they THEMSELVES
prepared a schematic in advance which was NOT grounded.  One would have
thought that as qualified scientists they would have at least had the
curiosity to conduct ONE test without grounding the prototype.

And it is not, as you state, that Joseph Newman "lack(s) time to entertain
new investigations."  This is yet another misleading statement on your
part.  Supposedly, the "scientists" who work at the NBS are considered by
some to be "experts in their field" and "among the premier scientific
'testers'" in the country.  Then there are those who consider them to be
little more than over-paid bureaucratic 'hacks'.  Whatever the case, these
NBS "scientists" proved themselves to be incompetent to properly test
Joseph Newman's prototype. Joseph Newman has little confidence in so-called
"scientists" who have not taken the time themselves to understand and
master his Theory and Technical Processes --- let alone be competent to
test his technology.  In 1903, for instance, there was (with the possible
exception of Richard Pearse in New Zealand) NO ONE as competent as the
Wright Brothers to evaluate and understand their innovative concepts of
aerodynamics.

>
>Both consider their lives to be in jeapardy and portray themselves to be
>true patriots boldly holding out against evil forces.  They consider skeptics
>to be lying traitors who will burn in hell.

Joseph Newman is first and foremost a "patriot" to his own principles:
principles of intellectual-honesty, sincerity, and integrity.  Joseph
Newman does not object to a skeptic who is curious, sincere, and
intellectually-honest.  And he has little patience with pathological
sceptics --- especially those who lie and/or intentionally mislead others.

>
>Both seek out and get considerable support from the patriot movement.

No doubt, Mr. Krieg, you have conducted an extensive survey of the "patriot
movement" to scientifically validate your above statement of "considerable
support" (whatever this supposedly constitutes).  In fact, Joseph Newman
has received support from many different sectors of society:  from
students, from business people, from laborers/employees, from interested
media, from environmentally-conscious individuals/groups, and from
Congressmen and Senators representing BOTH major, partisan political
parties.  Eleven U.S. Congressmen (Democrats and Republicans) introduced
eleven separate Congressional Bills designed to give Joseph Newman a
Congressionally-issued Patent.

>
>Both claim that some scientists and engineers have claimed their devices
>do or can work -
>but fail to aid investigators to contact them.

The many scientists and engineers who have signed legal Affidavits
attesting to the operability of the Joseph Newman's technology were
contacted continually and repeatedly by interested people and the media.
In fact, a number of these scientists and engineers appeared on national
(CBS Evening News) and regional TV broadcasts in support of Joseph Newman.
There were hardly "in hiding" as your above misleading statement would
imply.  Because of the large numbers of people who continually contacted
these individuals --- at their homes, at their places of business --- they
asked that their privacy be respected in the future.  From their
perspective, they tested the technology and legally signed Affidavits
attesting to its operability.  If Mr. Krieg considers himself an
"investigator" -- at least in any impartial, truly sincere and
scientifically-honest sense, he is mistaken.  He is a pathological sceptic
whose demonstrated actions are hardly one of intellectual and scientific
honesty. And, speaking of being able to contact people:  Joseph Newman has
supplied Mr. Krieg with his (Joseph Newman's) personal address and
telephone number.  Joseph Newman has repeatedly asked Mr. Krieg to supply
HIS personal address and telephone number and Mr. Krieg has REFUSED to do
this.

>
>They both claim to have extracted excess energy from processes that
>conventional science
>says would only lose net energy (Lee claims to be able to get net energy
>from a system
>involving a heat pump and Newman from a system involving a motor.

Joseph Newman has specifically innovated a system (one embodiment of which
is "electromagnetic") which "produces greater external energy output than
external energy input."  This occurs in accordance with the Law of
Conservation.

>
>Both offer elaborate creative excuses why it has taken so long and why they
>don't currently have a working prototype.

The reasons are neither "elaborate" nor "creative": From the beginning,
Joseph Newman only wanted a patent to provide him with the equal
opportunity to present his technology in the free enterprise marketplace of
innovative products and new technology.  Eleven Congressmen had studied the
history of the operational opposition to this technology and concluded that
Joseph Newman had indeed been treated unfairly by patent office
bureaucrats.  Without such patent protection, it can be very difficult for
an innovator to proceed with the full-scale development and production of
major, new technology.  A number of major corporations who have shown great
interest in Joseph Newman's technology have told Joseph Newman, "Please
contact us as soon as you have secured your U.S. patent rights."

>
>Neither limits themselves to just free energy claims but also make other
>grandiose claims as well:
>(Newman ran for president, predicts hurricanes, and contacts UFO's - where as
>Lee claims to have been in UFO's and to be able to neutralize radioactive
>material)

By virtue of his complete dissatisfaction with a bureaucracy "gone rampant"
and "functionally oppressive" in this country, Joseph Newman has "thrown
his hat into the presidential ring".  Rather than sit back and complain
about the system and how "others should do something about it," Joseph
Newman has had the personal initiative to offer his own societal solutions
to problems he sees confronting our culture.

Regarding Joseph Newman's contact with seemingly non-natural objects in the
night sky: At one time it was reported in the Mobile, AL (and Phoenix, AZ)
media about repeated sightings by individuals of peculiarly-shaped/behaving
craft in the sky which could not be easily identified (colloquially termed
"unidentified flying object"). At the same time that the sightings were
being reported around Mobile, AL, Joseph Newman (who was living in the
country just northwest of Mobile, AL) also saw such peculiar craft
following his repeated flashing of lights in the direction that the craft
had been reported. Such craft quickly appeared in the sky after his beaming
lights into the night sky and the craft made no audible sound in the sky as
they moved. He attempted to visually communicate with the presumed pilots
of such craft in the only way he knew how: by specifically flashing a
series of light beams at such craft. The reported physical behavior of the
craft was unlike conventional aeroplanes and helicopters.

And once again, Mr. Krieg, your words "predict hurricanes" are misleading.
This statement could imply to the reader that Joseph Newman has the
knowledge to specifically predict the time/location of a given storm.  In
fact, during his extensive discussions with Dr. Robert Smith of NASA (who
recognized the value of Joseph Newman's researches) and through Joseph
Newman's understanding of the work of scientist Ellsworth Huntington,
Joseph Newman has explained how weather effects (including storms and
hurricanes) are electromagnetic in nature and, through a better
understanding of this nature, meteorologists can improve their ability to
predict the behavior and paths such storms will take.

>
>Both make full use of all media (newspapers, TV and radio) and operate
>openly nationwide.

This is true.

>
>Neither is very adept in cyberspace, but both have loyalists who maintain
>elaborate websites which refuse to provide links to independent sources of
>information:
>  Lee www.ucsofa.com
>and Soule': www.joseph_newman.com

I've been told that each of us presumably has our own "gifts" in life --
which helps to contribute to a healthy division of labor in society. Joseph
Newman does not use computers, and he is very adept mechanically at
understanding the fundamental nature of electromagnetism, which led him, in
part, to develop his Theory and Technical Processes. I will not link Joseph
Newman's website to another site which features intentional or
unintentional disinformation and/or lies --- this is especially true when I
believe someone (on the other website) to be attempting to plunder the work
of another.  Although this statement is obviously anachronistic, I would
imagine that if the Wright Brothers had maintained a website, that they
would have refused to link it with a website featuring, for instance, the
comments of Glenn Curtiss:  the intellectual thief who attempted to plunder
the Wright Brothers' innovation.

>
>They both have long lists of former associates who have run afoul of them.

In Joseph Newman's case, I have requested this "long list of former
associates" from Mr. Krieg, and he has been unable to provide it.

>
>Both claim to work an incredible number of hours and have dedicated their
>whole lives
>(and that of their loyal spouses) to their efforts.

In Joseph Newman's case, this is true.

>
>Now, how are they different:
>Dennis has a long criminal record - I do not know if Newman has one.

Joseph Newman does not have a 'criminal record.'  His record is one of
dedication to his scientific work and research.


>Lee's "theory" is simply wrong - Newman is too fringe to even be just wrong.

Mr. Krieg, since you do not even understand Joseph Newman's work, you are
hardly in a position to determine what is "right, wrong, or fringe."  I am
also reminded of the quotation, "All great truths began as blasphemies."
The history of science has repeatedly demonstrated that what may be
regarded as "fringe" by some at one time, later becomes "conventional
science."  In any case, Max Planck said it best:

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die,
and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."  --  MAX PLANCK

Sincerely,

Evan Soule'
--
    sincerely,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic

Hi folks,

Big Mike maintains that they don't want to show me a heat engine running in a
perpetual motion mode - I suspect it has a power cord going to it.  Joe Newman
recently called me a stupid lying SOB who will burn in hell - he claims he'll
let the whole world know what scum I am when he demonstrates FE in November.
   Wade Frazier has been Dennis's most loyal supporter (although big Mike is
running a close second - this isn't counting Allison).  Wade wrote megabytes
of glowing things about Dennis (at the time, he thought open proof of FE would
be in April of 97).  But a number of months ago he dropped out of contact with
everyone - very much like his Dennis supporter father did 10 years ago.  Even
his web site disappeared. I just found a site that archives it all at:
http://mp.internet-exchange.com/frazier/
   The following is part of a longer rant about skeptics - I'll spare you
a long rebuttal for now.

eric

============== start of web page from Wade ======



And when the King of the Debunkers is shown to be a completely fraudulent
debunker, and I have sent that information to the "skeptics" time after time,
the
answer I get back from them is complete and total silence. I haven’t seen one
debunker utter one word about the fact that Sagan was a fraudulent debunker.
So I
am very skeptical of the skeptics. And that brings me to Dennis’ most vocal
skeptic on the Internet, Eric Krieg. Eric is a very interesting dichotomy. I
actually
think he is sincere, but fell in with the skeptic crowd (Actually a more
descriptive term is "true believer in the scientific establishment and the
power
structure."), and has been led astray. I am going to give Eric the benefit of
the
doubt here and believe he is well-meaning, and not an agent of the NSA or some
Rockefeller-related organization.

If I was a "skeptic" out there, looking at Dennis for the first time, there
would be
some questions I would be asking myself. Is he real and does he really have
the
marvelous technology that he says he has or is pursuing, is he a scam, or (And
this is an option I haven’t seen pierce Eric’s brain yet.) is he a man who is
trying
to get up enough momentum from the people so they can together overcome the
amazing suppression efforts that appear to have been directed Dennis’ way, and
he may or may not have the technology he claims he has, but he is doing his
best
in the face of almost impossible odds?

That is how I would start my investigation if I was a true skeptic. And to
call
somebody a fraud is serious business. Nobody should do that unless they have
some serious evidence. But unfortunately Eric takes the fraud stance as his
initial
stance, claiming to want to be swayed that maybe Dennis isn’t a fraud. Just
look
at his web pages, with their crackpot logos, Tom Napier’s debunker
masterpiece,
etc. Now let’s get back to investigating Dennis. Let’s look at the fraud
issue. To
call somebody a fraud is to say they are of dishonest intent, taking advantage
of
people to take their money in a clever theft attempt. The cornerstone of fraud
is
that the defrauder be of "evil" intent.

If Dennis was a defrauder and a real bona fide crook, and he has been at it
for
twenty years now, I’m sure he would have a string of victims a mile long.
Well,
who would be a victim? Basically a victim would be somebody who lost their
life’s savings by letting it get into Dennis’ greedy hands. I have known
Dennis for
almost eleven years now, and in that time the biggest financial losers who
have
dealt with Dennis have been me, Mr. Professor and Mr. Financier.

Mr. Professor and I got bankrupted directly by our involvement with Dennis, as
well as losing our life’s savings, which in Mr. Professor’s case was one heck
of
a lot bigger than mine. Mr. Professor lost over $250,000 by his support for
Dennis. And the ordeal also ruined Mr. Professor’s health and almost killed
him.
My net worth is still negative, and will likely be that way for awhile. And we
weren’t just idle investors, giving Dennis the cash and never seeing him
again. I
lived with Dennis and his family for a year, while I was his investor and
employee. When Dennis was in jail the first time, Mr. Professor took in Alison
and her children, and they lived with Mr. Professor for over a year, and when
Dennis got out of jail, they all lived with Mr. Professor for several more
months.
It isn’t like Mr. Professor and I don’t know who Dennis is. And what kinds of
bad things do we have to say about Dennis, after having lost it all due to our
involvement with him? Well, I think my web page speaks for itself. Mr.
Professor
speaks even more highly of Dennis than I do. I don’t think Mr. Professor can
even
bring himself to make the relatively few criticisms that I have made on my web
pages.

And a "skeptic" could say that Mr. Professor and I won’t tell the world what a
crook Dennis is either because we are just as culpable, or are still planing
on
getting our money out of Dennis someday, when the big scam really gets pulled
off, or we are still under his "malevolent spell," gullible to the end. I have
a hard
time somebody reading my web pages and calling me gullible. I can see people
calling me a cynic, but I have a hard time imagining them thinking that I am
under
Dennis’ artful spell, one he has been able to sustain through two stints
behind
bars and bankrupting me. Well, for one thing, Dennis is under no legal
obligation
to Mr. Professor or me. If Dennis becomes the world’s next zillionaire, Mr.
Professor and I know we will be taken care of, not because of a legal claim we
have on Dennis, but because we know who he is. OK, so the intrepid skeptic
discards all that testimony from two of Dennis’ biggest economic "victims."

Then what about the biggest economic victim of all, Mr. Financier? He was the
really big loser in Seattle. Eighty percent of those Seattle heat pump buyers
didn’t
pay one dime for their systems. All CONSERVE ever got was the tax credit
money that the customer got back with their tax return, and most never made
any
payments under the System for Savings contracts because so many of them didn’t
work and Mr. Financier had his company stolen from him at almost the same time
Dennis did. Mr. Financier lost literally millions of dollars, and the company
he
had spent his whole life building to boot. If Dennis was a crook, you could
count
on Mr. Financier to really let Dennis have it.

What does Mr. Financier have to say about the whole deal? His affidavit is an
exhibit in Dennis’ book, The Alternative, dated July 3rd, 1990 four years
after
Mr. Financier lost it all, and he definitely has no legal claim on Dennis. And
Mr.
Financier put his money where his mouth was and put up millions of dollars to
finance Dennis’ heat pumps. If you are a skeptical investigator, meaning one
who
actually investigates, that should be a very impressive piece of testimony, if
you
were trying to find out if Dennis was a fraud. And Mr. Financier has nothing
bad
to say in his affidavit, but instead says that he had done very careful
research into
the heat pump, to make sure it performed like Dennis claimed it had, before he
put up his millions of dollars. And Mr. Financier spoke very frankly about the
actions of the Attorney General’s office in their "consumer protection" act
against
Dennis’ company. And Mr. Financier ended his affidavit with stating his belief
that it was a conspiracy that caused his company to be stolen mere weeks
before
Dennis had his company stolen.

Eric Krieg e-mails me that he gets many e-mails a day saying all sorts of bad
things about Dennis. Well, does he get them from anybody who really knows
what they are talking about? Dennis’ biggest "victims" have spoken out, and
they
aren’t telling the world what a crook Dennis is. Eric’s very public fraud
suspicions appear to be built on sand. But Eric also says that Dennis has had
the
officials after him in three states now, and doesn’t that say a lot about
Dennis’
possible criminality? Well, what it does demonstrate is what Eric has put his
faith in: lawyers. Every attack I have seen made on Dennis by the power
structure
was lead by lawyers, lawyers who couldn’t find any victims to help them build
their "cases." In Seattle Dennis’ 400 heat pump customers actually signed a
petition to tell the Attorney General to stop "protecting" them!

If Eric was a competent and complete investigator, he would have dropped all
his "is Dennis a fraud?" stuff from his web site long ago. Eric simply has no
idea
what he is writing about. And I know what I am talking about. Eric acts like
he is
just an impartial empiricist, but, as you will see soon, I believe he is far
more of
a theorist than an empiricist. In our e-mails I have a number of times
presented
facts to him, and he would e-mail back that he had a hard time believing the
facts,
because his beliefs and theories told him otherwise.

Eric has written time and again that he didn’t want to look into the heat pump
because he felt it wasn’t worth his time. Well, how on earth can you call
Dennis a
fraud when you aren’t willing to look into about the only technology he has
really
sold for the past fifteen years, and is literally half of his current public
free
energy scheme? Eric finally relented on that position and said he would love
to
test one of the heat pumps, partly because he didn’t want to rely on the
mountain
of testing documentation that had been generated over the last twenty years,
because it could all be wrong.

And he talked about how hard it was to measure something like a C.O.P. And
Eric says measuring energy systems is his specialty. Well, I have news for
Eric,
measuring the C.O.P. of the heat pump is no big deal. You only have to measure
the water flow rate through the heat exchangers, the rise in temperature and
the
electrical draw on the compressor. That is it. I have seen that test performed
many times over the years, by professionals. I have done it myself a number of
times, we even had systems rigged with BTU and electric meters, where the
whole arrangement had a very low margin of potential error. Several test labs
have tested the heat pump, people who do that sort of thing professionally. I
have
a hard time crediting Eric’s concerns.

But that is not to say that I don’t want to let Eric have the opportunity to
test a heat
pump, which brings me to a problem that is better classified in my "problems"
section, but I will bring up here. As I stated earlier, a hundred companies
came
and went regarding the LAMCO system, with hundreds of the systems being
installed by the people who bought them. As those companies across America
sold five or twenty or fifty systems before going out of business, Dennis is
the
closest thing there has been to a "heart of the industry" for the last fifteen
years.
And Dennis has kept up with some of his customers from fifteen years ago, and
from time to time, when he has been riding high, another person who used to
sell
or install the LAMCO system would come out of the national woodwork and
contact Dennis.

Back in 1988, just before the raid, an old LAMCO dealer contacted us who was
from Minnesota. His name was Norm. Norm’s company sold and installed about
fifty of the heat pumps before going out of the LAMCO business. Norm was still
in the HVAC business, and so he kept servicing those customers when they would
have the rare system problem, like a leak, or a failed compressor, etc. We
actually sent a cameraman to Minnesota and filmed a tour that Norm took
through
Minnesota in the winter to some of his old customers. They sure were a bunch
of
a happy customers, including one of the system’s best references ever, Glen
Johnson from Hibbing Minnesota, whose letter from 1982 has been in many of
Dennis’ reference packages over the years.

That we found Norm was fortuitous, but it also highlights one of the major
problems we have encountered over the years. Norm was an HVAC man who
kept in touch with his old customers. He was still in the business and was
able to
keep serving them when the need arose. Most of the 100 companies that came and
went from the LAMCO days just disappeared from the map, and those customers
were on their own. So when a compressor failed or a system got a leak, who
were they gonna call, Ghostbusters? No, they ended up calling up a normal
HVAC man, who came out and scratched his head as he looked at that exotic
piece of equipment. If he changed out a compressor, he often needed to
evacuate
and recharge the system. And if he had no training with the LAMCO heat pump,
it
was guaranteed that he wouldn’t evacuate it, charge it, or adjust it properly.
And
then the system wouldn’t work well at all, and just limp along, not saving
nearly
as much as it used to do. So the homeowner may have eventually had the damn
thing removed and gone back to good old natural gas or something like that.

And each time Dennis would rebuild his company from scratch, after a jail
stint
or having his company stolen, he would encounter the skepticism about his heat
pump all over, and those dwindling references he had used for so many years
would get another flurry of calls from the "skeptical" and some people would
tire
of the calls, and ask to be removed from the reference list. In Boston, as we
were
getting it going again, Dennis had to organize a "reference" trip for all
those new
skeptics, to of all places, Philadelphia, right in Eric Krieg’s back yard. And
I got
to see all those skeptics return from Philadelphia, beaming with new-found
faith
in the system, talking to happy customer after customer. One of the
Philadelphia
customers even went so far as to say, "You can take my car, you can take my
furniture, you can even take my wife, but you aren’t gonna get my LAMCO
system, unless it’s over my dead body." The Philadelphia crowd were the ones
who were getting around a 100% savings on their heating bills.

And I don’t know if any of them are around today or not. What happens when
they
finally sell the house and move away? The new owners have no idea about those
panels on their roof, and if the system ever needs repair work, it’ll probably
get
botched and eventually the system will get removed.

A funny story surrounds the system that was installed on a Minneapolis
restaurant
many years ago. That restaurant was the one that Dennis uses all the time in
his
presentations. It was the one that got a C.O.P. of five in January. Back in
1987/1988, as we were beginning to fly high, one of those who got involved in
the Midwest took a trip to Minneapolis and looked up the restaurant. The
restaurant had changed owners, and the men asked the new owner what he thought
of the LAMCO system on his building. The new owner said, "You mean those
piece of junk panels on the side of the building? The piece of garbage doesn’t
work. It has never worked that I have seen, you can take it away if you want.
I’ll
sell it to you, cheap." The men then asked if they could take a look at the
system
and see what shape it was in. As they looked the system over and the hot water
system, they could see no other heating system hooked up to the water heating
system, and then asked the owner how he was heating his water then. And the
new owner just shrugged his shoulders, "I don’t know." It didn’t take them
long to
realize that the LAMCO system had been working perfectly and providing all the
restaurant’s hot water, and the new owner didn’t even know it. Those men did
some testing of the system and measured a C.O.P. of nine on that system, and
it
wasn’t summer.

Dennis’ goal for many years was to be able to build an industry around that
heat
pump, so it would survive, and so the heat pumps would not all eventually get
removed because nobody had the arcane knowledge anymore on how to fix them.
Of the two thousand systems that have been installed over the last generation,
we
literally have no idea how many are still functioning, another tragedy brought
about by the suppression efforts of the Big Boys, and the corporate apathy
demonstrated by that heat pump plant manager so many years ago.

So when Eric says he needs to be able to see one working before he stops his
open fraud speculation on his web pages, he is not exactly fighting the battle
on
the front it needs to be fought on. And at this time I don’t think Dennis is
going to
burn up the relatively few active references he still has on the system to
please a
man who publicly wonders whether Dennis is a fraud. Eric can do some real
investigative work and find some systems to test if he really wanted to, and I
have
told him where to look for some of them. Heck, he says he is contacted by
ex-dealers of Dennis’ all the time. The materials they bought are full of
references, and some of them must still be active. I’m sure Eric the Skeptic
could
find some ex-dealer to fax him some of those many references. If Eric is an
investigator worth his salt, he could easily find out the truth of the matter
about
the heat pumps, and drop his "Dennis is a fraud" musings.

Now, whether Dennis has "free electricity" is indeed open to debate, and I
express my skepticism about his heat pump married to a hydraulic heat engine
in
my physics piece. Now there is a world of difference between "does he have
free
electricity?" and "is he a fraud?" Eric’s black/white view of the issue is not
only
uninformed, but amazingly naïve. And this brings me to Eric the Theorist
versus
Eric the empiricist. That Dennis is alive at all today amazes many of us who
are
close to him, and those who know how the suppression syndrome works. Eric on
the other hand has been steeping himself over the years with the writings of
the
CSICOP crowd, avidly reading the works of people like Martin Gardner, one of
those in the CSICOP pantheon, right up there with Carl Sagan.

In the world view of Eric, Dennis is likely the latest in a very long line of
free
energy scammers and quacks that have paraded through American society over
the years. Eric can barely imagine the suppression efforts that have been
directed
at Dennis and others over the years, and Eric puts great stock in the attacks
of the
establishment, and studiously ignores the voluminous documentation in books
like
The Alternative that very seriously challenge the notion that there was
anything
legitimate in the establishment’s repeated attacks against Dennis. The
documentation is very persuasive evidence that Eric completely ignores in his
musings about Dennis.

Time after time I will e-mail Eric about the fact that CIA spies were crawling
all
over an International Tesla society meeting in Colorado (Which is something
blatantly illegal, as the CIA is expressly forbidden by law to do domestic
spying.
And they literally showed their badges at the conference when they were asked
to, as the law requires.), or the reception the Wright Brother’s plane
received for
five years by the establishment, and those kinds of facts, and telling him
where to
find the documentation. And Eric comes back with something like, "I find that
hard to believe." In those instances it is Wade the Empiricist versus Eric the
Theorist. I keep putting facts in front of Eric that challenge his view of the
establishment that he is such a proud member of, and he keeps coming back with
"I find that hard to believe." Eric takes pains to tell his audience that he
was a
proud Eagle scout and is an avid church goer. That is precisely Eric’s
problem.
He has done too much Boy scouting, church going, and watching the Disney hour.
He has a very naïve view of how the world works, and every time he comes back
with "I find that hard to believe," it is showing how he theorizes in the face
of
uncomfortable data, not wanting to believe it.

If Eric was the empiricist that he presents himself as on his web page, he
wouldn’t be saying something like "I had better be able to test a free energy
machine or else I have to conclude Dennis is a fraud," and list on his web
pages
all the state fraud hot lines. Eric would simply say, "I want to test a free
energy
machine" period. If he was really the pure empiricist he presents himself as,
he
wouldn’t keep theorizing aloud about if Dennis is a fraud, particularly when
he
has absolutely no credible information that Dennis might be one. But of course
he
can point to Dennis’ stints behind bars as hard evidence, but my testimony and
the
documentation in The Alternative are far more credible and convincing than all
the legal actions that have been directed at Dennis over the years, and if
Eric was
really the empiricist that he presents himself as, only a little true
investigation
would show him beyond any reasonable doubt how fraudulent the legal attacks on
Dennis have been. I mean every single one of them. But again, Eagle Scout Eric
has a real hard time conceiving that there is any corruption in our hallowed
legal
system.

The bottom line is that I have been there as a witness, and have done my
homework and found out how the world works. Eric hasn’t yet been able to
overcome all his Disney indoctrination. And many times now Eric has e-mailed
me questions that show me that he has yet to fully read my web pages, pages
that
are being called masterpieces (if long-winded). I have asked Eric at least
three
times now if he knows who Bill the Hit Man is, and his role in Dennis’ story,
and
I have yet to hear a word in response from Eric. Bill the Hit Man is a
character
Eric will have a hard time believing exists, as his mere existence calls into
question Eric’s entire world view. Well, I have been there seeing Bill’s
handiwork up close, and even seeing the trails he leaves here and there. Bill
isn’t
a product of my imagination, like some boogie man. And I have encountered more
than one like him. And Eric I’m sure has a hard time believing that Mr. Deputy
was making faces at me as I was testifying, or that he threatened witnesses.
One
day Eric is going to wake up and figure out how the world works, and he can
cry
on my shoulder.

Eric has actually been gracious with me on the Internet, even linking his page
to
mine. And at times Eric seems even willing to learn. I will return the favor.
Here
we are Eric. And this is the first link I have ever made, we’ll see if I did
it right.

Link to Eric Krieg’s Home Page

I’ll end this skeptic piece by mentioning a classic debunking exercise by
Eric’s
buddy Tom Napier, which is on Eric’s Home page. Read again the excerpts from
Daniel Drasin’s short course for debunkers, and see for yourself how well Tom
learned his lessons. From the title of Napier’s piece you can see his ridicule
and
condescending attitude is fired up and ready to go. And the reader won’t be
disappointed, Napier keeps up his ridicule and condescension steady throughout
his entire piece. And he takes aim early, calling Dennis scientifically
illiterate. I
won’t make any great claims regarding Dennis’ scientific literacy. Dennis is a
promoter, and his grip on the science is often tenuous at best.

But, and this is a big but, he has had some very big scientific and
engineering
heavyweights on his team in the past, and is associated with a few today.
Dennis
wasn’t making up his stuff out of the thin air, he was repeating what other
giant
minds had told him. And Napier actually staked out a pretty impressive claim
to
scientific illiteracy himself when he stated that power plants were 60%
efficient.
The right answer is around 35%, with 40% the highest I have ever seen claimed
with conventional technology today, and that major blunder by Napier took him
entirely out of the running as far as evaluating Dennis’ thermodynamic claims.

The Department of Energy states that about 30% of the energy that goes into
the
boilers of the electric companies makes it into the homes and businesses of
America as electricity. And you can look it up. A few percent goes to line
losses,
etc. General Electric says that they hope that innovations in metallurgy and
materials will eventually allow boiler temperatures of 4,000 degrees or so and
get that mythical efficiency of 60%, but we are a long way off, unless you
consider stuff like hydraulic heat engines.

And in keeping with Drasin’s teachings, Napier says that he didn’t see Dennis
demonstrate anything new or promising at the Philadelphia show. Again Napier
demonstrated his mastery of the debunker’s craft. Dennis demonstrated the
sublimation of tungsten for the crowd, demonstrating one of the many anomalous
properties of Brown’s Gas, properties that have been demonstrated many, many
times over the last twenty years. So Napier demonstrated once again his total
ignorance of what he was observing. But Napier was able to state with such
authority that he saw nothing new in Philadelphia. And the extent of Napier’s
superior investigative and skeptical efforts appeared to be limited to showing
up
to a free show in Philadelphia, then going home and writing his masterpiece.
And
he ended it all with the obvious ending that was a foregone conclusion by
merely
reading the title of his piece, that it sure looked like a scam to him.

And Tom of course roundly ignored the amazing jack hammer that makes little
noise and virtually no vibration while outperforming conventional jack
hammers,
and Dennis’ amazing heat pump, which should bring up some profound questions
to Tom and Eric about how the real world works and why such superior products
are not on the market today. But Tom had important debunker work to do, and he
couldn’t let little details like that get in his way.

In Ginenthal’s book on Velikovsky and Sagan, Ginenthal ended his preface by
saying that even if Velikovsky was wrong about all of his theories, he did not
deserve the slanderous, libelous and mean-spirited treatment that Carl Sagan
and
his buddies heaped on him. I have to conclude the same thing about Eric
Krieg’s
efforts. Does Dennis have a free electricity machine up his sleeve? I think
so, but
I am not entirely sure myself. But does that merit the treatment that he has
received on Eric’s pages? Not in my opinion, and I know the situation about a
hundred times better than Eric does. Eric, this is friendly advice, stop your
skeptical musings about Dennis, particularly the "is he a crook?" wonderings
until you really know what you are writing about, because you don’t.

That is all I have to say about the "skeptics" for now.
--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.syc.org/e/skeptic/

Dennis has appeared on a short wave station that seems to have ignored my
request to provide the other point of view.  Art Bell (who is one of many
other radio people to ignore my offer of rational information) has claimed
he has been forced to go off the air.  The Newman people have erased all
my posts to the Newman page.  I've asked Mike Hall again to let me see
if the machine they have really runs perpetually with no outside power -
I got this hunch there is a cord going to it that viewers are to ignore.

Dennis Lee is still free but his energy isn't  - an update by Eric
Krieg

  As I have tried to desperately explain to Dennis's hopeful dealers
  (who have paid up to $25,000 for the right to distribute free energy
  machines),: "me jumping up high in the air is no more a demonstration of
  levitation than Dennis running a generator from a stored energy source for a
  few seconds." The one impressive thing Dennis has delivered is excuses for
not
  openly proving his claims including

       "Sorry, more bad guys stopped me"
       "just wait, I'll have something even better next month"
       " . . there, 5 seconds running - see, it works"
       "pay no heed to the power cord running up to it"
       "trust my meters, we have no time for yours"
       "here's hours of theory, just trust me it works"
       "can't show it, cause someone may steal it"
       "God just told me not to show it after all"
       "I have to solve the nuclear waste problem first"
       "first give me more money"
       "I'll give big business one last chance to join me, because I
don't want to destroy the economy"

I close with the following from George Sikes:;

Subject:
          dennis lee/sikes turbine
    Date:
          Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:49:52 -0400
    From:
          "George Sikes" <inventors@...>
      To:
          <eric@...>




Hi Eric,
Hope you are well and getting along ok, hope you reprint this in your page as
a
response to dl's news letter August 1998 volume XXIX in which he mentions my
name in and calls me a liar more or less, let me tell you the truth so maby
some
of his "dealers" will know the truth on why I left better world technologies
in 1996.
I went to NJ at dl's request to build a sikes turbine and to develope a
working
prototype, I built a turbine and left, this is what I promised, I would have
stayed but
for the fact that on day while I was there I saw dl's true colors, I was
personally insulted
in front of several of dl's people, some of which I respected, I was actully
insulted in front
of Prof. Yull Brown, which I respect very much, then dennis told me to leave
the
project,(he was very upset that Yull was talking to me and the welder and he
wanted all the attention)later on that nite he
begged me to stay, saying he was sorry and that if I would stay
long enough to finish building the turbine he would try to do better, I
finished building "a"
turbine and left, they did turn the water on prior to my leaving and knew the
problems
with the design, I left a letter telling them how to correct the problem, but
he chose not
to becouse of our differances, the turbine works, the current status of the
development is : agent in Norway is activaly
seeking funding from several investors, an agent in Porto
Rico is currently negotiating with the PR govt. through the university there
to build a
working prototype. The turbine works in wind or hydro and is currently
avaliable if any one
want's info on the turbine they can reach me by e mail  inventors@...
Eric, I hope you will carry this on your page so the dealers will hear the
truth.
Keep up the good work,
George Sikes (inventor, Sikes Turbine)



--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/freefaq.htm

Hi,

   Today is the 2 year anniversary of the big show in Philadelphia. (that was
when I jumped in the fray)  They claim the Fischer runs continuous (but with
no net output power) for 24 hours straight - they won't confirm for me if
there is any external input power in this demonstration.  I strongly suspect
it has some unmentioned source of conventional power - otherwise they'd take
me up on my offer to confirm it running in a simple perpetual motion mode.
That would be the kind of classic critical information that Dennis is famous
for omitting.  A few more pro Dennis web pages have shown up, I have yet to
see one with the honesty to admit mine exists.

   In other news, Joe Newman is still claiming his machine puts out more power
than it takes in and he actually let me talk a while on his radio show.  A
number of his victims seem more vocal than the sheep who have left Dennis's
fold.

   I close with a list of common "FE messiah" excuses:

       "Sorry, more bad guys stopped me"
       "just wait, I'll have something even better next month"
       " . . there, 5 seconds running - see, it works"
       "pay no heed to the power cord running up to it"
       "trust my meters, we have no time for yours"
       "here's hours of theory, just trust me it works"
       "can't show it, cause someone may steal it"
       "God just told me not to show it after all"
       "I have to solve the nuclear waste problem first"
       "first give me more money"
       "I'll give big business one last chance to join me, because I
don't want to destroy the economy"
--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.syc.org/e/skeptic/

Hi folks,

I was just told that the episode of "Origins" I appeared on has run in
Kansas City.  Also the latest issue of Scientific American - page 90 has  a
great article on Thermophotovoltaics - one of a number of ways to get
electricity from a fuel with NO moving parts.

   I've started "interacting" with the Newman people - they apparently had a
show with lots of conspiracy theory and politics but nothing working well
enough to be the proof Newman promised. His wife tells me they will have
independent engineers make measurements. My free_energy list tracks all that
stuff.

The following is my [[embedded response]] to Mike's earlier letter:


Mike Hall wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> I don't respond because it is not necessary.  You will do what you do
> without my input.  You aren't interested in the truth, just your misguided
> and mis-informed version of it.
[[ Mike, I have made corrections to my pages as a result of you and other
people pointing out mistakes.]]

> I don't have the time or interest to try
> and convince you of anything.  I don't have to.
[[ Mike, My pages have had a total of over 20,000 hits.  I offer you a simple
page to respond to criticism of Dennis in a much bigger forum than you
currently have and it would be FREE.  If the "intellectual exodus" of Dennis's
support is based on simple ignorance or being misguided by my information -
here is a simple easy way to correct the problem.

> When we do what we are
> doing openly in public very soon, it will be obvious who has the truth and
> is building something and who is deceiving people.  In the end you will know
> that you hurt, not help people, (where we are concerned, I don't know about
> the rest of your stuff)
[[ excuse me for being cynical - but Dennis has been saying "soon" for over 10
years.  I've even offered to verify if he even has a machine that continuously
runs unconnected to the power grid - even if the machine puts out no external
power.  If you have that and aren't willing to openly demo it - you are losing
big potential investment money.  ]]

>They will know also and whoever you talked out of
> our program will not like you for that.  You say that you are moral but
> every week you listen into our private communication with our dealers,
> encouraging that dealer who gives you the code to violate his secrecy
> agreement with us and see no problem that.  I see a double standard with
> you.  You judge harshly but don't see the beam in your own eye. The ends
> justify the means?
[[ I don't feel that my listening in to the message in the interest of people
who keep losing money to Dennis or those unable to get money back is that
bad.  The current source of your code needs no encouragement from me - you
folks should be used to making your supporters mad at you.  Dennis is the
ultimate "ends justifies the means person" - he knew full well he wasn't going
to install machines nationwide in 96 - he thought the end of getting money
justified the means of knowingly giving a wrong impression of having a working
machine.  I'm sure not perfect, but I'm a lot more moral than Dennis. As far
as all his "secrets" go - have him look up Luke 8:17, John 7:4, I feel that my
actions are according to Ephesians 5:10-13.

>The people have a "right" to know, no matter what?  What
> you don't understand and never will is that we are the real thing doing the
> impossible with few resources.  So I will continue to work on creating and
> you on destroying that creation and we soon we will see who is who.
[[ When is soon?   will you still be sacrificing everything for Dennis 5 years
from now even if you have never had a real FE machine?

> Dealing
> with you is like trying to convince an evolutionist that creation  is how
> God made the earth and not evolution.  The evolutionist is too invested in
> his religion to listen to the truth.  Why waste the time.  I won't.  I will
> not answer E-mails.
[[ Mike,  a true believer can be MOVED A LITTLE.  Creationist speakers do
successfully get believers in evolution to doubt things.  I've gotten Jay
Smith
to go from a strong Dennis supporter to admitting that Dennis's theory is just
not right.  Wade Frazier convinced me that Dennis may truly believe much of
what he says.  In my skeptical work I frequently see other skeptics soften in
their stance on areas that have some shard of evidence and I've turned a
number of die hard astrology/therapeutic touch/dowsing/channeling believers.
It is possible to get people to reconsider where they stand on issues - but
easier when they have not spent a lot of money already.
>
> Regards
>
> Mike

--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.syc/e/more.htm/

People,

   Big Mike (who I think is Dennis's most loyal follower after Allison) told me
I could post the following criticism of me.  I'll copy a response later.
Right now in AZ, Joe Newman is
doing a FE demonstration.  I hope to report more on it to the
FE email list.  We are coming up on the 2 year anniversary of
my entry into "Dennis-ism".

    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

================
             Mike Hall <Mike@...>
         To:
             eric@...
  References:
             1




Eric,

I don't respond because it is not necessary.  You will do what you do without
my input.  You aren't interested in the truth,
just your misguided and mis-informed version of it.  I don't have the time or
interest to try and convince you of anything.  I
don't have to.  When we do what we are doing openly in public very soon, it
will be obvious who has the truth and is
building something and who is deceiving people.  In the end you will know that
you hurt, not help people, (where we are
concerned, I don't know about the rest of your stuff)  They will know also and
whoever you talked out of our program will
not like you for that.  You say that you are moral but every week you listen
into our private communication with our
dealers, encouraging that dealer who gives you the code to violate his secrecy
agreement with us and see no problem that.
I see a double standard with you.  You judge harshly but don't see the beam in
your own eye. The ends justify the means?
The people have a "right" to know, no matter what?  What you don't understand
and never will is that we are the real thing
doing the impossible with few resources.  So I will continue to work on
creating and you on destroying that creation and
we soon we will see who is who.  Dealing with you is like trying to convince
an evolutionist that creation  is how God
made the earth and not evolution.  The evolutionist is too invested in his
religion to listen to the truth.  Why waste the time.
I won't.  I will not answer E-mails.

Regards

Mike
--

Hi folks,

   This sounds like a claim of free energy to me. To anyone
going, I make the following recommendations:
    Be ready for a long political rant early on.
    Look out for him only allowing his measuring devices.
    Be skeptical of a short run which could use only stored energy.
    Expect the device to be disassembled at the end.

To me "indisputable proof" would entail configuring the machine
with NO external power entering (to avoid measurement debates)
and running with a continuous obvious energy output far in
excess of any energy sources that could be hidden.  Of course the
whole thing should be raised off the ground on clear blocks to
assuage fears of hidden energy sources.  I for one can think of
no legitimate reason for such a demo to not be left set up
and operating for many hours.
    Anyone able to show up, please let me know what you think.

eric

Michael Cook wrote:
>
>  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: LOCATION UPDATE ANNOUNCED!!!
> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:36:02 -0600
> From: josephnewman@... (Evan Soule)
> To: josephnewman@...
>
>           LOCATION UPDATE ANNOUNCED!!!
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> ***ANNOUNCEMENT & LOCATION OF DEMONSTRATION!***
> ***ANNOUNCEMENT & LOCATION OF DEMONSTRATION!***
> ***ANNOUNCEMENT & LOCATION OF DEMONSTRATION!***
>
>      NEWMAN ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION
> 2050 Vineyard Dr. * Castle Rock, Colorado 80104
>                 (303) 814-3403
>        email: josephnewman@...
>       Also, for info, call: (504) 524-3033
>
>            **********************
>            A PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION
>                      OF
>               JOSEPH NEWMAN'S
>            NEWEST MOTOR/GENERATOR
>            **********************
>
> Joseph Newman has stated that this demonstration
> will feature his most advanced Motor/Generator &
> will show MORE Power (in Horsepower)  coming out
> on the shaft of the  Newman Motor/Generator than
> Power going into the Newman Energy Machine!
>
> Joseph Newman  has  stated  that he will provide
> indisputable  proof  that  the technology works!
>
> The Newman Energy Machine  can and will run your
> home, business, & farm;  provide the inexpensive
> energy to turn salt water into fresh water and a
> desert  into an  oasis;  eliminate  the need for
> pollution-causing  conventional energy  sources,
> reduce the cost of all produced goods,  and turn
> the cost of your  monthly  electric bills from a
> deficit into  a  profit.  This  technology  will
> totally decentralize  our access  to  energy and
> literally change the world for the better.
>
>         *****************************
>         COME AND SEE IT FOR YOURSELF!
>         *****************************
>
>  Date: ***** SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 1998 ******
>  Time:           2:00PM (Pacific Time)
> Place:             PHOENIX, ARIZONA
>
> ************************************************
> ************************************************
> *****LOCATION FOR THE PHOENIX DEMONSTRATION*****
> ************************************************
> ************************************************
>
> The Energy Machine Demonstration will be held at:
>
>   SONORAN PLAZA (in the Sonoran Plaza Ballroom)
>     19726 N. Remington Drive, Sun City Grand
>              West Phoenix, Arizona
>       contact number there: (602) 546-5194
>  [Ask for Angie Cholas, Facility Sales Office]
>
>        HOST HOTEL FOR THE DEMONSTRATION:
>
>         Windmill Inn at Sun City West
>             12545 West Bell Road
>   Surprise, Arizona (Suburb of W. Phoenix)
>             Hotel Phone Numbers:
>       1-800-547-4747 (then press "4")
>              or, (602) 583-0133
>           [Room rates: $63-85/night]
>     [Please mention you are attending the
>   Joseph Newman Energy Machine Demonstration]
>
>      DIRECTIONS FROM THE WINDMILL HOTEL
>              TO SONORAN PLAZA:
>
> >From the Windmill Hotel, go west on Bell Road to
> Grand  Avenue.  Turn right on Grand Avenue.   In
> approximately  1.5  miles  you  will pass a huge
> Safeway  and  Albertson  Drugs on either side of
> Grand Avenue.  3/4  of a mile  beyond  will be a
> large entrance  on the left to  the community of
> SUN CITY GRAND.   Turn  left and drive to a stop
> light at the intersection of Sun Rise Blvd. Turn
> left  and  proceed to  second stop  sign at  the
> intersection of N. Remington Drive. Take a right
> at this intersection and proceed about 200 yards
> to a building on the right which is the  SONORAN
> PLAZA.   About 100 yards behind this building is
> the SONORAN PLAZA BALLROOM building.
>
> [Directions to SONORAN PLAZA BALLROOM will also
> be available  at the  registration  desk of the
> Windmill Hotel. And, if necessary, you can also
> call Angie Cholas (546-5194) at  SONORAN  PLAZA
> for additional directions.]
>
> _________________________________________________
>      Contact Number for the Demonstration:
>      Milton Everett, Professional Engineer
>                (602) 546-4031
> [Milton Everett was the first engineer to endorse
> Joseph Newman's technology  as early as 1982.  At
> that  time  he  was with  the  Mississippi  State
> Department of Energy.]
> _________________________________________________
>
>  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>         website:  www.josephnewman.com

--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic

Hi,

His last voicemail was really weird, just ranting in a hick accent something
like, "Howdy all you farmers, ditch jumpers, pig breeders - we're doggone
smart. Yall just keep the faith and don't be listening to that Eric Krieg
dagnabit!"  He had me laughing out loud but feeling bad for the dealers trying
to make sense of it.  - I think it's just sarcasm associated with my
observation that many FE messiahs target farmers for easy money.

Here's a list of stuff we haven't seen from Dennis:

   the hundreds of millions of investment dollars
   a solution that eliminates radiation
   hunger wiped out by sonic bloom
   a open impartial review of any dealer really making money
   a independent report on how long BG machines can run
   that machine that looks through concrete
   dealers being able to resell dealerships
   the flying saucer flying

and of course the FE machines that should have been publicly
available almost 2 years ago.

In related news:  Joe Newman , who inspired Dennis and has
his own flock of loyal followers is claiming to Demo FE in
Phoenix AZ in a few days.  More info at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~josephnewman/
I've been trying to explain to his people (just as I tried in vain with
Dennis's folks) to do a proper demonstration.  They said they will send me
videos of it.

--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215) 654-0651
                   http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic

Hi,

One thing I find almost entertaining about liars - be they prominent
politicians, OJ, generic con men, etc. is how innovative they are generating
brand new lies when their old ones fail.
It can be fun to peel back lame excuses and watch the creativity flow. In the
case of Dennis the interaction has been:

D: I have free energy.
E: show me.
D: come to a show, read my books, look at my tapes.
E: I did and saw no proof.
D: you are just stupid or have sold out.
E: show me, and I'll award you prize money.
D: you don't really have the money.
E: My broker will confirm I have the money to award.
D: I've already proven it many times.
E: no, that was only enough "proof" to sucker dumb farmers
D: You say mean things, I want nothing to do with you.
  . . . .
   it's slow going because he is too cowardly to interact directly
with the opposing view point. so that's where it has ended off. My response
is:
E: well Ok, then call your nearest skeptics group: The New York Skeptics -
they have no contact with me and must have plenty of engineers and
physicists who could make proper measurements:
http://www.liii.com/~nyask/
nyask@...
---------
Dennis tries to convince people I'm attacking the dealer network.  I'm their
only true friend because I'm the only one trying to get them honest
information.  Dennis won't warn them that stuff doesn't work right or can be
purchased cheaper from other sources.

On the August 24th dealer hotline message, Dennis admits that there is no new
news (that he can talk about).  Sounds true this time, my guess is he has only
more pathetic hopes of big investor money coming through.

  The latest copy of consumer reports debunks another of these bogus electronic
water softeners.  There's a relentless deluge of scam products out there.

Lee S. reports a poem dispelling 2nd law of thermo confusion at:
http://www.anglia.ac.uk/%7Esystimk/Humour/hippo/Entropy.Html
and rumors of a cameracorder thought to see through clothes:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-08/15/109l-081598-idx.html

The following is a discourse with Mark who wants advice on harnessing wave
power and points out that I'm too focused on Dennis:

--------------------


mark tadeson kidtad@... wrote:
>
> Dear Eric,
>   I came across your Website on Dennis Lee as I was searching for
> information on Alternative Energy Sources.  It made for good reading. I
> particularly enjoyed the 500 year history of the Perpetual Motion
> machine, but I can't help to think how consumed you are by this whole
> Dennis Lee thing. The impression I was left with, based on your
> writings,
>   "Here is this extremely bright man, who has taken on a snake oil
> salesman, and righteously decided to expose this fraud for the con that
> he undoubtedly is to the unknowing masses. It is apparent that your
> intentions are noble.  But I can't help thinking that there must be a
> truly greater purpose to one's existence than debunking the flawed
> theories of a sensationalist bent on profiting from the blissfully
> ignorant of great faith who refuse to look at facts, because of they are
> tied to their emotional investment.
>  Which brings me to you, Eric, I am by no means intellectually gifted
> in the domains of physics, chemistry, and engineering, but I do hold a
> master's degree in science from Ithaca College and I do understand some
> of the basics about people.
>  I see you as someone, who might be helpful in achieveing my goal,
> simply put, of delivering a better alternative source of non-polluting
> enviro friendly electrical power than existing standard hydro
> technologies. I require advisors schooled in the above disciplines such
> as yourself, committed to the scientific values of reliablity, validity,
> and empirical research.
> At no time do I wish to unfairly profit from the ignorance of others.
> In fact all I can offer you is my idea and an invitation to come aboard
> and be a part of a team that seeks to make a positive contribution to
> one small problem that faces our society. You see, Eric, I am of the
> opinion that no problem exists in our world today that cannot be
> overcome by a longterm solution. So what its all about?
>
>  Electrical energy generated by the constant movement of the ocean's
> waves.  The techonolgy exists. Can we make it so efficient and cost
> effective that it will be a viable and sustainable option for
> governments to consider and corporations to invest in.
>
>  If you think this endeavour is worthy of your time and further
> pursuit or could put me in contact with other people and resourses I
> would be greatly thankful.
>
> I am only in the preliminary stages of gathering information, but
> every idea must start somewhere. Mine has begun with you.
>
>   Thanks for your time
>
>
Sincerely,
>
>
Mark
>
--

Mark,

   your assessment of me is fair.  I do have some great ideas in the area of
genetics (but the tools needed won't be invented for a few decades) - and I
have no extraordinary ideas (other than taxing the hell out of energy to
foster
innovation) for getting energy cheaper.  If I had viable ideas, I'd be out
promoting them.  I do think my information provided may have saved people
around a
million lost dollars by now - not the same as a great inventions, but more
impact on the world than if I just watched sports shows.  My pit bull attack
on Dennis probably serves to dissuade a few con men from trying that
particular scam.

    I've wondered about harnessing waves my self and see a number of problems
to be overcome:
   The motion is very slow - so it's harder to harness.
   Sea water is extremely corrosive, and the sun light degrades what the sea
won't.
   Sea Water is conductive, it would short out electrical lines in the sea.
   Barnacles and living stuff starts to adhere to surfaces.
   hurricanes exert tremendous forces (remember that 1" steel sea sewer pipes
      get ripped up )
   environmental impact studies are difficult and costly
   the effect of sand on moving parts is tough and so is mooring anything.

You probably would need the skills of a materials scientist, a maritime
engineer, mechanical engineers and civil engineers for something like this.
Many people have worked on that idea in many different countries.  I think the
best idea would be to harness the tides in areas with high rises.  Ultimately,
the whole question comes down to "what is the cost per delivered KWH your way
vs conventional existing ways"

   best wishes,

    Eric Krieg     eric@...  fax (215)-654-0651
                   http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic

Hi folks,

not much doing, Dennis is still in a "lets sell the stuff we have
today" mode.  He's recently gone to CA to try to get investment
money out of farmers.  That's what fascinates me about FE (free energy) is
that recent FE messiahs get a lot of their money out of farmers.  I guess they
are more trusting or lonely or something.  Dennis talks about  BG machines
surviving travel (what we engineers check with vibration testing) - what he
really needs to do is a life test:  see if one can really put out gas for
months straight.  Every repuditable company I've developed stuff for does life
tests.  Dennis hopes (bless him for for not promising and for allowing more
time) to demo FE in January.  Fine, I'll be ready.

    A bunch of skeptics and I have found it interesting to discuss the
FE claims of Joe Newman (Dennis learned from him) with his loyal follower Evan
Soule.  I've put up too many Dennis pages, so I've put
up a page looking into Joe Newmans 2 decades of FE claims at:
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/newman.htm

I close with a list of statements Dennis would probably wish
he hadn't made:

"Yull Brown is the greatest man alive"
"you can weld any metal with browns gas
"you can get more energy harnessing browns gas than it takes to make"
"you can sell you dealership for 10's of thousands"
"were going to have 100 million of money invested"
"we will demonstrate free electricity on  . . "
"this turbine will generate a KW on 3 mph air flow"
"we will install before end of 1996"
"we developed the vibrationless jack hammer"


--
    best wishes,

    Eric Krieg   eric@... fax (215)-654-0651
                 http://www.voicenet.com/~eric

I got this question in the mail :
>
> Hy my name is ______ and what have you made or done dennis lee it seems has
> done way more don't
> get me wrong but have you made his divice to prove that it dont work email
> me at (________)
>
>
--

Dear _______,


I assume you are wondering if I've done anything of note personally; I don't
know what would be proper credentials for a critic. But,
I've made and done a lot of stuff in my nearly 40 years on the planet.
   I have been the lead software architect for the Model 352 Moore Products
single loop controller. It costs at $2000 and about 100,000 have been sold.
It's been the most highly rated controller in the
industry. I've made many other successful devices for the
avionics, medical, process control and communications industries.  I
try to use the abilities I've been blessed with to the fullest.
    Dennis on the other hand has never developed anything that has
worked.  He has sold a few things developed by others that work - but
most of them do not. He has been bankrupting investors nationwide for 2
decades.  His remodeling business failed, his buyers card business failed, his
heat pump business failed and I expect this latest business to fail as soon as
he can't squeeze more money out of his victims.  I don't know of any truly
successful and original product Dennis has really produced.  The Free Energy
machine is a joke, the explosive proof mesh isn't needed, and the rest of the
stuff is pretty much all sold by other people.
   As far as proving his device doesn't work, I can do that mathematically
using physics.  But if I became the 50th person to try and fail to do what
Dennis is trying, he would just say I'm too stupid.
My contribution to FE is being willing to investigate any device said
to be working.

BTW: I was told that Craig Olsens review of my talk posted on the last
BWT emailing was wrong in saying that the CIA has no jurisdiction in the
US.  Sorry for any errors, anyone feel free to point out others.


    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg   eric@...

sign up for some of my email lists from:
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

I just heard that Allison was spotted coming out of a car that
had 666 on the license plate.  Maybe they are agents of the devil.
If you look midway through:
http://www.jeffry.com/bwt_c_mc.htm
. . you'll see a Dennis devotee slice up science worse than Dennis
usually does.  Check out:

"A NEW PROPULSION TECHNOLOGY...

It can eliminate the need for NASA altogether. This device will be able to get
one G of force with a 10 horsepower motor. This means that 1,000 pounds can be
levitated using a 10 HP motor. It also means that with another 10 HP (20 HP),
one thousand pounds could be raised through our atmosphere at 32 feet per
second per second. With 30 HP it could be raised at 64 feet per second per
second (of  course, it could levitate 3,000 pounds or raise 1,500 pounds up at
the rate of 32 feet per second per second). This means that the engine in your
existing pickup truck could raise the same payload into space as the current
space ship launching by NASA <snip>"

   They are talking about using power to accelerate a mass.  This
would only be slightly wrong if the mass was traveling tangentially
to the force of gravity - because energy is .5mv^2  Constant energy
in will not sustain a fixed rate of acceleration.  But this claim
is more absurd when talking of accelerating a mass vertically -
you would be very quickly producing more energy than putting into
it.  Such propulsion claims are a whole different crack pot abuse
of physics than mere FE claims.

I close with article appeared in the October issue of Phactum, the  newsletter
of the Philadelphia Association for Critical Thinking.
It is copyright (c) 1997 by PhACT. All rights reserved. It's a
review of my most entertaining talk on Dennis by Craig Olsen:





PhACT Council member, Eric Krieg presented "The High Cost of
Free Energy" at our September meeting.  Eric's program focussed
on the free energy claims of Dennis Lee.  Eric related that last
year he and a few other PhACT members went to see Lee's
presentation at the CoreStates Center.  Eric videotaped part of
the presentation and used this tape as part of his program, to
give us an inside look at a huckster in action.

Dennis Lee is certainly good at what he does.  After observing
the video clip one of the audience members stated, "He sounds
like a used car salesman!"  Lee is so good at what he does that
he was able to rent the CoreStates Center for a reported $50,000
and to spend another $50,000 on an advertising campaign to bring
people to the facility.  His show consisted of demonstrating (or
talking about) a host of machines  which are purported to make
one energy self-sufficient.  Full working demonstrations of these
machines were either non-existent or lasted for a few seconds,
using pressurized gas.  At the end of the show Lee invited
audience members to pay $10,000 to become a dealer in his
contraptions.  When it turns out that there is no machine yet or
that it does not work, the dealer is stuck!  The audience at the
Center was estimated by the PhACT observers at about 3,000 (Lee
claimed an audience of 10,000).  If only ten people became
dealers, Lee's costs were covered!  How many signed up is
unknown.

Eric mentioned other free energy promoters such as Robert
Stewart, Arnold Burke and Joseph Newman.  One thing they all have
in common is that they tend to focus on farmers and groups on the
political right such as militia members and religious
fundamentalists.  Many free energy promoters use the anti-
government mentality to their advantage.  For example, Eric
related how Dennis Lee promised to show the CoreStates audience a
Radiation Neutralization Machine but claimed that the CIA would
arrest him if he tried!  [Unlikely, since the CIA has no
jurisdiction within the USA.]  Paranoid conspiracies worked on
this crowd as many responded to Lee's plight.  Lee also made
frequent references to God during his show which endeared him to
the fundamentalists.

As Eric neared the end of his program, many wondered how
people like Dennis Lee could get away with such a scheme.  Eric
explained that few people who were duped are willing to admit it.
Many were still being taken in by promises by Lee and others that
a machine could not be shown because, "It will be ready soon,
just give me a few months," or "Government agents took it."

Fortunately, Dennis Lee and others of his ilk have been
prosecuted, although Lee's legal battles are still in progress.
Thanks to people like Eric Krieg, those who stop to listen to the
voice of reason will save themselves much heart and head ache.



[ In September 1996 Lee was promising to have "free energy"
machines installed in people's homes "before this year is out."
We are still waiting.      Tom ]



"Do you think the search for perpetual motion ended in failure
long ago?  You're half right.  Failure is perpetual, but the
search never ended."    Robert Schadewald, 1989
--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg   eric@...

sign up for some of my email lists from:
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

just listened to the latest voicemail.  Dennis is all excited about the
(drum roll please) . . . BWT Funding Group - it's being put together
by Bob Pironne.  Dealers in denial who still have money will be dumping
it into yet another Lee scheme with next to no chance of succeeding.
The other big news is Dennis is working to get run down facility
(should be fixed up) with 70,000 sq. ft for 15K a month.  That's more
expenses (coming out of investor money) based on the dream that
orders will be flowing in.  Dennis of course plans on having "live
24 hr security". Hey, can't let the bad guys in.
Of course this huge facility would require even more NON-free
electricity.  I would like to know how much money Dennis has paid to the
utility companies - it would be neat for dealers to know that X
  many dollars of their money went to pay the power companies.  The
power companies love Dennis (they hate me because I have every energy
  savings device there is).  Of course the other number I'm dying to
  know is what percentage of money spent to just bring more
  investment money in. (a good way to spot pyramid scams).
  Let me know if anyone has heard Dennis on the radio - I was hoping to
  be invited to provide the other point of view but didn't get called.
   Dennis is also talking of a new 2 cylinder fisher
  engine to be out in a while.  This is stupid - if the concept works,
it should work fine on a single cylinder with a fly wheel.  Likewise,
  if it don't work now, it won't work with more cylinders.  If found
that those trying to invent the impossible are always looking for a
distraction to shift attention to.  Rather that admit a years worth of
  tinkering has only consumed electricity - they say, "forget about
  proof for now - lets even make it better yet!  It's a great way for
  "Dr" Fisher to keep sucking money while avoiding accountability.  One
of the biggest FE scoundrels in history, John Keely actually walked
  away from years of experiments and promises to work on something he
  claimed would be far more important than mere free energy.

    I hope people reading of that nut who shot up the capital can
    appreciate the danger posed by people promoting conspiracy and
    paranoia.

  I believe we are at the 2 year anniversary of Dennis
  having done the nationwide tour.  (I think he is past due)  I can't
  help wondering about all the people who didn't have the money to
  invest, but did sign up to have free electricity installed on their
  homes and cars.  What must they be wondering by now?

By the way, my use of the term "hatchet job" to describe the CNBC
work has unfair.  The expression has a bad connotation.  The producer
would have much more loved to break the biggest story of the century
and then show me reluctantly signing over a check to Dennis.  Had he
been able to run a show that exciting, maybe his program wouldn't have
been canceled.

--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg   eric@...

sign up for some of my email lists from:
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

July 25 update:

Hey if you rearrange the letters in "Dennis Lee" you get "End Lee Sin" and
"needs lein" and "senile den" and "in Lee's end"

I was going over Dennis's "response to critics" video.  He evades most of
my more undermining observations - but responds mostly to the CNBC
hatchet job (which I thought was well cone).  Dennis says he has no
idea why Pat Robertson was president and an investor of UCS and
then abruptly backed out.  Pat's organization clearly says that
they considered Dennis a scoundrel as do most religious leaders that
run into him.  The Bergen County Record article explained it all.
    I was thinking about Dennis's "I have to make sure I don't collapse
the economy" excuse for not delivering FE:  I just got a statement from
a mutual fund of mine, and 6% of their balanced portfolio was in oil
stocks and 4% in energy stocks.  For the rest of the economy, energy
is an annoying expense.  If FE ever did appear, the Arab world would go
back to the middle ages while the rest of the world would experience an
incredible surge.
   Dennis hasn't responded to my offer to verify that he has a machine
that runs perpetually without even any net power output.  It fascinates
me how the core attribute of his "business" is blind belief.  Every
company I've known who just clings to delusions under direction of
a all controlling dictator, has gone out of business.  The amazing thing
about Dennis is how he keeps on finding people to blind enough to
invest but who somehow still have money.  I wonder what the 100,000$
investors think after finding out that people are desperately trying
to sell them for less than $3000.  If Dennis were a real business
man, he'd be able to know the net return of each of the product
lines.  I get the impression few of them bring in real money, but
that BWT is run on a constant stream of new investors.  Unquestioning
dealers like big Mike see nothing funny about selling lots of news dealerships
months after they all were supposedly all sold.  Or he should be asking, "what
about Dennis's promise to sell dealerships of those who want out". I never
thought he's make good on that promise.

   I close with a much older email list comparison:
------------------------------------

The other day I was showing a friend (who couldn't believe someone
was actually selling free energy machines) an old Dennis's video. All
of a sudden he said,  "hey look, shave the mustache
more narrow and who do you see?"   being a skeptic, I at first said,
"ahhh I don't think so" But then I got a bit silly and started exploring
some intriguing interesting coincidences:

both had grass roots lesser educated gun owning zealous followers
both wanted to free the world from a worldwide multigenerational conspiracy
both could could recover from major setbacks and raise a large number of
followers
  with inspirational speeches to large emotional gatherings.
both had little education
both were incarcerated for a short time, but wore it as show of dedication
both wrote hard to follow books about the conspiracy and vision for the
solution
both were initially ignored by mainstream press
both were inspired by obscure crack pots
both have dark hair, a piercing stare  and downward slanted upper eye lids
I think both changed their names early on?


Hey, but seriously: before anyone starts getting too excited or torqued,
I'd like to remind people that
liberals like clock work have accused every single major conservative
of being similar to or worse than Hitler.

To Dennis's credit he does not share AH's  hate, marital status,
substance abuse, perversion,  art training, or desire to
exterminate large groups of people.  Also unlike Dennis, AH was
never interested in being a pastor.



--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg   eric@...

sign up for some of my email lists from:
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

Hi folks,

   Once again, the new place to find out what's up with Dennis is from
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt
please excuse double postings during the transition period.

We just had the following general free energy post on this list:

Piotr Kosibowicz wrote:
>
> Dear listers, I am posting a msg from Lamberston, who claims to have a
> solid state method and try to sell it. The letter is kinda
> pseudo-scientiffic. .  ..

<snip>

> A. Automotiv~ - The company seieCred has annuai automotive sal~ of $118
> billion. Invitation date - June 15, 1998. The shift between the
> automotive market and the r~ of the transpo~tion industry is unknown to
> me. C~ in the auto~tive market have to include taxes, which increas~
> the ~tal by 57.7 percent. At twice the truckjng market, it is $541.2
> billion. . .

<snip>

   People,

I see these pathetic tomes all the time.  Bi polar inventors jump way
ahead of the issue of proof and into fantasies of fame.  It's the
worst case of putting the cart between the horse I've ever seen.
It's like worrying, "hey, if someone gives me 20,000 money, what
am I going to do with it all?".  If you have something that works,
pass my test, I'll get you free publicity and people will throw
money at you.


   Dennis did receive a award from an old established inventor
group out of Atlanta, called Inventors Clubs of America. this group has
been around since the 30's, founder Dr. Marciano, it's supposedly
a well established group with branch clubs in many states. But, they
don't seem to have a web presence.  Unfortunately, the role of the
small time inventor is declining.  The really big things seem to
come from large labs.

   Dennis claims to have a high hit rate for selling special $100,000
dealerships.  To his credit, he at least says it may take till next
year before the FE machines are out there (I was wondering how long
people would keep believing next week).  True believers are very
forgiving of misses.  Followers of the Heavens Gate cult went many
times to mountain tops expecting to be carried away - I guess they
did end up getting "carried away" with loyalty.  Dennis also now
warns investors in his web based message to not invest money they
can't afford to lose.
   In answer to the question, "all right, what product do you think is
most likely to make some money" - that would have to be the special
refrigerant.  If it's not illegal or dangerous, it could be neat -
but that's not my area of expertise.
    I've been getting people emailing me with stories how the BG
machines either don't work right out of the box or fail after
being run for more than 40 hours.  I don't know of any running
in continuous industrial applications.  Dennis at least admits
now that they have to be specially shipped because of the
hazardous caustic in them.

   I close with the following cynical brief overview of the
kinds of characters I see in the FE movement:

FE Players

The world of Free Energy can be understood in terms of the roles of the
people who get involved.  Here I try to offer a simple overview of
the different roles I see of people involved:

THE SMALL TIME TINKERER: This person has bought all the books, gets the
periodicals, and isn't very connected with the rest of society. He's
smart and good with tools and happy to just tinker with different things.
Unfortunately, he rarely publishes what he finds doesn't work - so his
fellow isolated tinkers end up repeating the same general experiments.
He frequently tries to reproduce the work of former "FE messiahs" who
disappeared before they could be clearly exposed as frauds. He perpetually
thinks he's about 2 weeks away from a major breakthrough which will
catapult him to fame.

THE PROMOTER:  These people function in a support capacity.  They interpret
unintelligible pseudoscientific rants from inventors to be pure genius
which is simply not understood by simple scientists whose minds are locked.
The promoter feels that his level headed assistance can help guide the
inventors best intentions and hard work to success.  The promoter often
doubles as big league investor.  His loyalty is as boundless as the energy
sources he wants to tap.

THE SKEPTIC  (that's me!)  The skeptic is a well meaning self righteous do
gooder who idealistically clings to the dream that exposing fallacy will
instantly free the other characters from their irrational folly.  The
skeptic is frustrated by the lack of popularity of his depressing message
and frequently just locks horns in "Yes it is / No it isn't" battles with
believers.  Usually just ends up preaching just to other skeptics.

THE CASUAL SEEKER   He often sends a small amount of money to the Tinkerer
or the theorist or the publisher for information on FE claims.  He gets
his moneys worth in that he gets some excitement and a ray of hope in
his boring life.  An encounter with the skeptic is usually enough to
save him from making the progression to becoming an investor.  He usually
makes no real conclusion and just moves on to study ufo's or dowsing
or something else unusual.

THE PUBLISHER  He is a kind of promoter who kind of tries to be
the John the Baptist of free energy.  He (or she in the case of Jeane
Manning) writes books or publishes magazines.  He is smart enough to
know that many FE claimants are nuts or corrupt - but doesn't like
to openly admit it for fear that people will conclude that all
FE are.  They reason that a lot of very slim chances add up to near
certainty. They take turns trying to strike back at the undermining
skeptic.

THE FE MESSIAH  This is the inspired charismatic person who infects
others with the dream.  Years of no significant results do not
dissuade this person and his closest disciples.  He makes money
from donations, the big investor and often from small purchases by
the "casual seeker".  He often claims to have divine revelations and
will frequently shift from FE to some other grandiose claim or
cause.  The smarter big ones have learned that you are less legally
accountable if you sell dealerships rather than machines.  These
people put more effort into self promotion and battles with government
people or former investors than actually getting their claim to work.
They have produced an impressive list of excuses for not delivering.
Their great skill is acquiring investors and then stringing them
along for years.

THE FE INVESTOR This person is often an uneducated farmer or rare
people who lack critical thinking skills, yet somehow still have
money.  In particularly pathetic cases, these people (hoping to
get rich quick) borrow money (or coinvestment participation) from
friends, work associates or family.  Once they have sunk in money,
they are often in denial concerning their prospects of recovery.
Even when they feel sure they have been had, they don't usually
come forward because they harbor hope of maybe selling their
dealership to someone else or fear the wrath of the FE messiah.
Of course the investor feels a great sense of embarrassment to
friends and family that ask how it's going. Many investors never
fully admit they lost money and just avoid the whole painful topic.
Their hesitance to be open about their experience makes it easier
for newer investors to keep coming in.
best wishes,
    Eric Krieg

fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/more.htm

John,

   I guess you just created a range limit to the current fair
market price.

   hope you get it - but I'm glad other stuff has been panning out for you.  At
least you helped limit further people from getting shafted by providing me
with info.  I have another source.

eric

John Coviello wrote:
>
> From: John Coviello <jwc@...>
>
> I still can't sell my dealership for $2,500. Anyone want it?
>
> Eric Krieg wrote:
>
> > From: Eric Krieg <eric@...>
> >
> > first of all another reminder to go to:
> > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt
> > (sorry for people getting duplicates during transition)
> >
> > I heard from a business man who attended a special pitch for bigger
> > investors that they were all polite, but NONE invested.  Dennis jokes,
> > "we don't want any smart people".   But here's interesting news
> > from a few sources: Dennis has sold dealerships to Amish people.
> >
> >   Now I grew up in Hershey PA near those people, and I can tell you
> > that Dennis has found the PERFECT people to become Dealers.  The
> > Amish consider scientific ignorance a virtue.  I can imagine
> > them saying, "thermo what?".  Good Amish people drop out of school after
> > 8th grade, are taught to believe lots of stuff on faith, have lots of
> > money saved up, they are not supposed to use electricity or even
> > understand it, they aren't violent if cheated and wouldn't know which
> > authorities to go to.  The Amish make better dealers than even the
> > little old ladies sending in pension checks!  I used to expect bwt to
> > fold in early 1999, but now I think this could just go on and on.  As
> > long as gutless push-over dealers decide to just walk away from the
> > experience with barely a yellow whimper we'll be hearing in the year
> > 2010, "BWT intends to install FE machines nationwide before the
> > end of the year".
> >
> >    The other thing I heard from someone who was by their site is
> > that there are just scores of BG machines in a big "BG grave yard".
> > Is is stupid or what to have bought such a huge inventory?    I would
> > like to hear of even one industrial application using those things
> > on a daily basis.  Dealers have bought them but don't regularly
> > use them.
> >
> >   A big inconsistency in the literature is to on one hand talk of the
> > 2000 dealers across the country, and on the other hand say, "we have
> > more dealerships to sell" - that should set flags.
> >
> > Also, I'm getting tired of hearing how the dealerships are worth
> > $100,000.  Gary Hawkins has had one advertised for under $8000
> > for months.  My guess is that the free market value is closer
> > to 2000.
> >
> > I close with a copy of the Cecil Adams column forwarded by
> > skeptic-Chris:
> >
> >     Do "laundry balls" that supposedly replace detergent really work?
> >
> >                                           Week of: 25-Jul-97
> >
> > Dear Cecil:
> >
> > What do you know about those plastic ion laundry balls that
> > supposedly replace detergent? --RosenClan, via AOL
> >
> > Cecil replies:
> >
> > Here's what I know:
> >
> >     1.People are charging as much as $75 for a set of little gizmos that
> >        look like they came as a prize in a Happy Meal.
> >
> >     2.Fifty bucks a set is more typical, but even that has to be an
> >        outrageous markup inasmuch as there's an outfit in Hong Kong
> >        that will sell them to you for $3.60 a pair. (Minor drawback: you
> >        have to go to Hong Kong to pick them up.)
> >
> >     3.If you believe Consumer Reports, even $3.60 is a rip because you
> > can get equally good results tossing your kid's
> >        Skoosh ball in the washing machine; i.e., none.
> >
> > Taking all this into consideration, I figure laundry balls aren't just
> > the name of the product, they're what you need to sell it.
> >
> > But we believe in fairness around here. So I'll say this: we tested a
> > set of laundry thingies (laundry disks rather than
> > laundry balls, actually, but what's the diff?), with unexpected results.
> > But more about that in a sec.
> >
> > Laundry balls and such are sold mostly via direct marketing--catalog
> > firms, outfits like Amway, and "multilevel marketing"
> > concerns. An MLM is basically a network of individuals who sell a
> > product and at the same time try to recruit other sellers,
> > in whose profits they'll share. I'm not saying every MLM is a
> > racket--there are probably people who thought their
> > time-share condos were a good deal, too--but MLMs do seem to hawk more
> > than their share of junk.
> >
> > Laundry balls/disks allegedly eliminate or greatly reduce the need for
> > conventional laundry detergents. You get different
> > stories about how they work, including a lot of hokum about "structured
> > water" and "nanotricity" and whatnot, none of
> > which makes much sense. The most coherent account comes from a catalog
> > firm called Real Goods:
> >
> >        1. Metallic elements (including copper and silver) in the
> > activated ceramics [inside the device] release
> >        electrons which in turn produce ionized oxygen. This form of
> > oxygen is a totally natural cleanser which
> >        breaks up dirt and organic compounds.
> >
> > Sure, it's possible, says the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board. A
> > metal (although probably not copper) could produce
> > a peroxide, a type of bleach. But probably not enough to accomplish
> > anything.
> >
> >        2. The activated ceramics also emit 'far infrared electromagnetic
> > waves' which cause water molecule
> >        clusters to disassociate, allowing much smaller individual water
> > molecules to penetrate into the innermost
> >        part of the fabric and remove dirt.
> >
> > SDSAB: All objects at room temp emit "far infrared"; this is known as
> > heat energy. No appreciable effect on water
> > molecules.
> >
> >        3. When water contacts the activated ceramics, an abundance of OH
> > ions is produced, reducing the
> >        surface tension of the water and greatly increasing its
> > penetrating power. Ordinary detergents make use of
> >        this same principle, but do so by using harsh chemicals.
> >
> > SDSAB: Possibly OH ions, also known as hydroxide, could be created in
> > this way, though not in large quantity. These
> > would raise the water's pH. Substantially the same thing happens with
> > lye soap and sodium hydroxide, the main
> > component of Drano. What was that about no harsh chemicals?
> >
> > But now to the practical test, which was conducted by my assistant Jane.
> > (You may think it sexist that she got stuck doing
> > the laundry, but she volunteered.) She stained various items of clothing
> > with ketchup, chocolate, ink, grass, and "some of
> > the purple dye I use for my hair." That Jane, you gotta love her. She
> > washed three batches, one with three laundry disks
> > from Real Goods, one with Tide, one with plain water. As advised by the
> > product literature, she used a prewash stain
> > treatment on all the batches. Result: little difference among the three
> > except that the disks were better at getting rid of the
> > grass stain. "Hmm," said Jane.
> >
> > Round two. The disks got the wash "a tad" cleaner. Double "hmm."
> >
> > OK, the slightly better showing by the disks may be a fluke. Or the
> > result of the prewash. Other investigations (e.g., the
> > aforementioned Consumer Reports test, published in the February 1995
> > issue) found no difference. The real surprise is
> > that Tide didn't perform much better than plain water. I'm not saying
> > you need laundry balls or disks. But the soap
> > makers' dirty little secret, you should pardon the expression, is that
> > you might not need conventional detergent either.
> >
> > --CECIL ADAMS
> >
> > ============== an extra note by Eric:  As much as I like Cecil's
> > trenchant wit, he neglected to test for presence of germs.  Soap
> > does kill a lot of them - Washing with just water will only transfer
> > germs from each member of the family to every other.  Also another
> > point, you don't need hot water to wash clothes - cold works just
> > as well.
> >
> > --
> >    best wishes,
> >    Eric Krieg
> >
> > fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
> > http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
> --
> John Coviello
> Web Developer/Technical Documentation Specialist
> Vice President, Frontier Research Seminars
> http://idt.net/~jwc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.

--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg

fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic

I still can't sell my dealership for $2,500. Anyone want it?

Eric Krieg wrote:

> From: Eric Krieg <eric@...>
>
> first of all another reminder to go to:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt
> (sorry for people getting duplicates during transition)
>
> I heard from a business man who attended a special pitch for bigger
> investors that they were all polite, but NONE invested.  Dennis jokes,
> "we don't want any smart people".   But here's interesting news
> from a few sources: Dennis has sold dealerships to Amish people.
>
>   Now I grew up in Hershey PA near those people, and I can tell you
> that Dennis has found the PERFECT people to become Dealers.  The
> Amish consider scientific ignorance a virtue.  I can imagine
> them saying, "thermo what?".  Good Amish people drop out of school after
> 8th grade, are taught to believe lots of stuff on faith, have lots of
> money saved up, they are not supposed to use electricity or even
> understand it, they aren't violent if cheated and wouldn't know which
> authorities to go to.  The Amish make better dealers than even the
> little old ladies sending in pension checks!  I used to expect bwt to
> fold in early 1999, but now I think this could just go on and on.  As
> long as gutless push-over dealers decide to just walk away from the
> experience with barely a yellow whimper we'll be hearing in the year
> 2010, "BWT intends to install FE machines nationwide before the
> end of the year".
>
>    The other thing I heard from someone who was by their site is
> that there are just scores of BG machines in a big "BG grave yard".
> Is is stupid or what to have bought such a huge inventory?    I would
> like to hear of even one industrial application using those things
> on a daily basis.  Dealers have bought them but don't regularly
> use them.
>
>   A big inconsistency in the literature is to on one hand talk of the
> 2000 dealers across the country, and on the other hand say, "we have
> more dealerships to sell" - that should set flags.
>
> Also, I'm getting tired of hearing how the dealerships are worth
> $100,000.  Gary Hawkins has had one advertised for under $8000
> for months.  My guess is that the free market value is closer
> to 2000.
>
> I close with a copy of the Cecil Adams column forwarded by
> skeptic-Chris:
>
>     Do "laundry balls" that supposedly replace detergent really work?
>
>                                           Week of: 25-Jul-97
>
> Dear Cecil:
>
> What do you know about those plastic ion laundry balls that
> supposedly replace detergent? --RosenClan, via AOL
>
> Cecil replies:
>
> Here's what I know:
>
>     1.People are charging as much as $75 for a set of little gizmos that
>        look like they came as a prize in a Happy Meal.
>
>     2.Fifty bucks a set is more typical, but even that has to be an
>        outrageous markup inasmuch as there's an outfit in Hong Kong
>        that will sell them to you for $3.60 a pair. (Minor drawback: you
>        have to go to Hong Kong to pick them up.)
>
>     3.If you believe Consumer Reports, even $3.60 is a rip because you
> can get equally good results tossing your kid's
>        Skoosh ball in the washing machine; i.e., none.
>
> Taking all this into consideration, I figure laundry balls aren't just
> the name of the product, they're what you need to sell it.
>
> But we believe in fairness around here. So I'll say this: we tested a
> set of laundry thingies (laundry disks rather than
> laundry balls, actually, but what's the diff?), with unexpected results.
> But more about that in a sec.
>
> Laundry balls and such are sold mostly via direct marketing--catalog
> firms, outfits like Amway, and "multilevel marketing"
> concerns. An MLM is basically a network of individuals who sell a
> product and at the same time try to recruit other sellers,
> in whose profits they'll share. I'm not saying every MLM is a
> racket--there are probably people who thought their
> time-share condos were a good deal, too--but MLMs do seem to hawk more
> than their share of junk.
>
> Laundry balls/disks allegedly eliminate or greatly reduce the need for
> conventional laundry detergents. You get different
> stories about how they work, including a lot of hokum about "structured
> water" and "nanotricity" and whatnot, none of
> which makes much sense. The most coherent account comes from a catalog
> firm called Real Goods:
>
>        1. Metallic elements (including copper and silver) in the
> activated ceramics [inside the device] release
>        electrons which in turn produce ionized oxygen. This form of
> oxygen is a totally natural cleanser which
>        breaks up dirt and organic compounds.
>
> Sure, it's possible, says the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board. A
> metal (although probably not copper) could produce
> a peroxide, a type of bleach. But probably not enough to accomplish
> anything.
>
>        2. The activated ceramics also emit 'far infrared electromagnetic
> waves' which cause water molecule
>        clusters to disassociate, allowing much smaller individual water
> molecules to penetrate into the innermost
>        part of the fabric and remove dirt.
>
> SDSAB: All objects at room temp emit "far infrared"; this is known as
> heat energy. No appreciable effect on water
> molecules.
>
>        3. When water contacts the activated ceramics, an abundance of OH
> ions is produced, reducing the
>        surface tension of the water and greatly increasing its
> penetrating power. Ordinary detergents make use of
>        this same principle, but do so by using harsh chemicals.
>
> SDSAB: Possibly OH ions, also known as hydroxide, could be created in
> this way, though not in large quantity. These
> would raise the water's pH. Substantially the same thing happens with
> lye soap and sodium hydroxide, the main
> component of Drano. What was that about no harsh chemicals?
>
> But now to the practical test, which was conducted by my assistant Jane.
> (You may think it sexist that she got stuck doing
> the laundry, but she volunteered.) She stained various items of clothing
> with ketchup, chocolate, ink, grass, and "some of
> the purple dye I use for my hair." That Jane, you gotta love her. She
> washed three batches, one with three laundry disks
> from Real Goods, one with Tide, one with plain water. As advised by the
> product literature, she used a prewash stain
> treatment on all the batches. Result: little difference among the three
> except that the disks were better at getting rid of the
> grass stain. "Hmm," said Jane.
>
> Round two. The disks got the wash "a tad" cleaner. Double "hmm."
>
> OK, the slightly better showing by the disks may be a fluke. Or the
> result of the prewash. Other investigations (e.g., the
> aforementioned Consumer Reports test, published in the February 1995
> issue) found no difference. The real surprise is
> that Tide didn't perform much better than plain water. I'm not saying
> you need laundry balls or disks. But the soap
> makers' dirty little secret, you should pardon the expression, is that
> you might not need conventional detergent either.
>
> --CECIL ADAMS
>
> ============== an extra note by Eric:  As much as I like Cecil's
> trenchant wit, he neglected to test for presence of germs.  Soap
> does kill a lot of them - Washing with just water will only transfer
> germs from each member of the family to every other.  Also another
> point, you don't need hot water to wash clothes - cold works just
> as well.
>
> --
>    best wishes,
>    Eric Krieg
>
> fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
> http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.



--
John Coviello
Web Developer/Technical Documentation Specialist
Vice President, Frontier Research Seminars
http://idt.net/~jwc

first of all another reminder to go to:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt
(sorry for people getting duplicates during transition)

I heard from a business man who attended a special pitch for bigger
investors that they were all polite, but NONE invested.  Dennis jokes,
"we don't want any smart people".   But here's interesting news
from a few sources: Dennis has sold dealerships to Amish people.

   Now I grew up in Hershey PA near those people, and I can tell you
that Dennis has found the PERFECT people to become Dealers.  The
Amish consider scientific ignorance a virtue.  I can imagine
them saying, "thermo what?".  Good Amish people drop out of school after
8th grade, are taught to believe lots of stuff on faith, have lots of
money saved up, they are not supposed to use electricity or even
understand it, they aren't violent if cheated and wouldn't know which
authorities to go to.  The Amish make better dealers than even the
little old ladies sending in pension checks!  I used to expect bwt to
fold in early 1999, but now I think this could just go on and on.  As
long as gutless push-over dealers decide to just walk away from the
experience with barely a yellow whimper we'll be hearing in the year
2010, "BWT intends to install FE machines nationwide before the
end of the year".

    The other thing I heard from someone who was by their site is
that there are just scores of BG machines in a big "BG grave yard".
Is is stupid or what to have bought such a huge inventory?    I would
like to hear of even one industrial application using those things
on a daily basis.  Dealers have bought them but don't regularly
use them.

   A big inconsistency in the literature is to on one hand talk of the
2000 dealers across the country, and on the other hand say, "we have
more dealerships to sell" - that should set flags.

Also, I'm getting tired of hearing how the dealerships are worth
$100,000.  Gary Hawkins has had one advertised for under $8000
for months.  My guess is that the free market value is closer
to 2000.

I close with a copy of the Cecil Adams column forwarded by
skeptic-Chris:


     Do "laundry balls" that supposedly replace detergent really work?

                                           Week of: 25-Jul-97



Dear Cecil:

What do you know about those plastic ion laundry balls that
supposedly replace detergent? --RosenClan, via AOL

Cecil replies:

Here's what I know:

     1.People are charging as much as $75 for a set of little gizmos that
        look like they came as a prize in a Happy Meal.

     2.Fifty bucks a set is more typical, but even that has to be an
        outrageous markup inasmuch as there's an outfit in Hong Kong
        that will sell them to you for $3.60 a pair. (Minor drawback: you
        have to go to Hong Kong to pick them up.)

     3.If you believe Consumer Reports, even $3.60 is a rip because you
can get equally good results tossing your kid's
        Skoosh ball in the washing machine; i.e., none.

Taking all this into consideration, I figure laundry balls aren't just
the name of the product, they're what you need to sell it.

But we believe in fairness around here. So I'll say this: we tested a
set of laundry thingies (laundry disks rather than
laundry balls, actually, but what's the diff?), with unexpected results.
But more about that in a sec.

Laundry balls and such are sold mostly via direct marketing--catalog
firms, outfits like Amway, and "multilevel marketing"
concerns. An MLM is basically a network of individuals who sell a
product and at the same time try to recruit other sellers,
in whose profits they'll share. I'm not saying every MLM is a
racket--there are probably people who thought their
time-share condos were a good deal, too--but MLMs do seem to hawk more
than their share of junk.

Laundry balls/disks allegedly eliminate or greatly reduce the need for
conventional laundry detergents. You get different
stories about how they work, including a lot of hokum about "structured
water" and "nanotricity" and whatnot, none of
which makes much sense. The most coherent account comes from a catalog
firm called Real Goods:

        1. Metallic elements (including copper and silver) in the
activated ceramics [inside the device] release
        electrons which in turn produce ionized oxygen. This form of
oxygen is a totally natural cleanser which
        breaks up dirt and organic compounds.

Sure, it's possible, says the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board. A
metal (although probably not copper) could produce
a peroxide, a type of bleach. But probably not enough to accomplish
anything.

        2. The activated ceramics also emit 'far infrared electromagnetic
waves' which cause water molecule
        clusters to disassociate, allowing much smaller individual water
molecules to penetrate into the innermost
        part of the fabric and remove dirt.

SDSAB: All objects at room temp emit "far infrared"; this is known as
heat energy. No appreciable effect on water
molecules.

        3. When water contacts the activated ceramics, an abundance of OH
ions is produced, reducing the
        surface tension of the water and greatly increasing its
penetrating power. Ordinary detergents make use of
        this same principle, but do so by using harsh chemicals.

SDSAB: Possibly OH ions, also known as hydroxide, could be created in
this way, though not in large quantity. These
would raise the water's pH. Substantially the same thing happens with
lye soap and sodium hydroxide, the main
component of Drano. What was that about no harsh chemicals?

But now to the practical test, which was conducted by my assistant Jane.
(You may think it sexist that she got stuck doing
the laundry, but she volunteered.) She stained various items of clothing
with ketchup, chocolate, ink, grass, and "some of
the purple dye I use for my hair." That Jane, you gotta love her. She
washed three batches, one with three laundry disks
from Real Goods, one with Tide, one with plain water. As advised by the
product literature, she used a prewash stain
treatment on all the batches. Result: little difference among the three
except that the disks were better at getting rid of the
grass stain. "Hmm," said Jane.

Round two. The disks got the wash "a tad" cleaner. Double "hmm."

OK, the slightly better showing by the disks may be a fluke. Or the
result of the prewash. Other investigations (e.g., the
aforementioned Consumer Reports test, published in the February 1995
issue) found no difference. The real surprise is
that Tide didn't perform much better than plain water. I'm not saying
you need laundry balls or disks. But the soap
makers' dirty little secret, you should pardon the expression, is that
you might not need conventional detergent either.

--CECIL ADAMS

============== an extra note by Eric:  As much as I like Cecil's
trenchant wit, he neglected to test for presence of germs.  Soap
does kill a lot of them - Washing with just water will only transfer
germs from each member of the family to every other.  Also another
point, you don't need hot water to wash clothes - cold works just
as well.

--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg

fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic

first of all a reminder to go to:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/bwt
to keep hearing the wacky on going exciting saga of Dennis (of the sign up
information, only your email address need be correct).  Special thanks to Gary
for contributing the old list.

I have some response to various mail:

>As a friendly note to Eric Kreg: I would like to see you channel all the
>negative energy in to positive
>constructs.
  I feel the FE movement needs a good enema. I feel I offer a positive service
to help people learn to see through the rampant corruption and insanity.  My
offer to validate the real McCoy is sincere.

> Doesn't it matter to you that Dennis is sincere and really believes what
> he says.  He's not some con man as you imply.
Yes, I've come around to seeing him as believing that stuff. - but he
is actually more dangerous as a true believer than a con man.  A con
man will jump ship at the high point - but a true believer will
just ride the whole thing all the way into the ground, hurting the victims for
longer.

>My husband is sucked up into "Lee-ism" something awful, what can I do?
I recommend you have him set limits.  Get him to agree to put things on
hold if the next two promise dates are broken - or have him agree to
only mortgage the house once there is INDEPENDENT verification of the
free energy machines.  Once people have spent big money, you can't
expect them to turn around over night.

>Eric ask yourself this
>simple question: what would I do if I had real Free Energy at my disposal ?
I'd confirm it works with a bunch of engineers, technicians and physicists
I hang.  Then I'd call a press conference, announce it to the world, and
then prove it to any significant group wanting proof.  I'd then offer my
18+ years of engineering experience to help get the cost down and the
reliability up. It would be more fun and fame than exposing fraud.

    I'm hoping to write up "A Skeptics Response to Tesla".  People like Dennis
nearly deify the guy.  True, Tesla had a lot of great inventions early on, but
much of what he promised was mere insanity. There's a lot of FE people
who I would call "techno-rumor-resurrectionists" : some obscure crank gets
a rumor started that he invented something great (PM, FE, alchemy,
anti-gravity a panacea - you name it) - then the story becomes "a great thing
was invented but there was no time to write it down - or it was suppressed".
Then generations of people try to reproduce the lost secret.  This is a common
syndrome.  If 100's of such people have failed to reproduce it in 70 years,
then why is Dennis going to do it by next week?  And how can followers like
big Mike keep thinking God is talking to Dennis if Dennis gets so much stuff
wrong?  It's almost like Dennis installs springs in the back of their necks,
so they
just wag their heads, "yes Dennis,  yes Dennis, this time it will work, yes".
Of the dealers coming to me, there seems to be a lot of farmers.  The FE
messiahs, Arnold Burke and Robert Stewert both heavily marketed to farmers
and also mixed in plenty of religious talk.


------------------------
My friend Chuck pointed out that the fellow with the long alternative
physics theory didn't realize that an increase in rotational velocity
the disk must be accelerated which requires energy from somewhere. There is no
free lunch

   Why these people insist on replacing physical laws with out first
identifying a flaw with the existing laws is beyond me.
--
    best wishes,
    Eric Krieg

fax (215) 654-0651  eric@...
http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic