An offering to add to the pot, as far as I recall the Roaches arrived in Ireland
as part of the Norman-Cambro (Welsh) invasion/colonization, I have an
understanding it to be a Norman name/origin and not 'English' in the sense
usually understood. Hope that adds a little light.

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> Diane, I just found a reference in "Modern Ireland 1600-1972" by RF Foster, p.
13, "[by 1600] Old English families like the Barrys and Roches of Cork had
completely Gaelicized." I find almost 5000 Roches in the Griffith's Valuation,
some in Kilkenny where my family is from (matches you), also in Tipperary where
our other Bowe match's family is from. Slight spelling difference, but certainly
could be a connection in there.
>
> Martha
>
> --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Diane Bowe <dianebowe2002@> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting -My husband's father was named Roache as a first name  -how is
that for original -I assume a family name somewhere in there but can't prove it
-he came from the John Bow line who settled in the Goulds Newfoundland about
1840
> >
>

You are right about that. I have a map here called "Ireland 1300-1600: Map
showing the location of the principal Gaelic septs together with the leading
families of Norman origin (the latter being indicated in purple ink)." Sure
enough, down there in Cork appears Roche in purple ink. In addition, a footnote
in the prior page in Foster's "Modern Ireland," after he first uses the term Old
English, clarifies: "The use of this term may be slightly anachronistic for
1600. A text like Advertisements for Ireland, 1623, distinguishes between 'the
English–Irish' and `Irish gentleman of the English Pale' [presumably planters]
like the Dillons. `The English of Irish birth' remained a general term up to
this time, `Old English' occurring as an adjective rather than as a noun.
`Anglo–Irish', often  in Latin, also appears. But for clarity's sake, the term
`Old English' will be adopted here from 1600 on."

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "bowes2000" <bowes2000@...> wrote:
>
> An offering to add to the pot, as far as I recall the Roaches arrived in
Ireland as part of the Norman-Cambro (Welsh) invasion/colonization, I have an
understanding it to be a Norman name/origin and not 'English' in the sense
usually understood. Hope that adds a little light.
>
> --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@> wrote:
> >
> > Diane, I just found a reference in "Modern Ireland 1600-1972" by RF Foster,
p. 13, "[by 1600] Old English families like the Barrys and Roches of Cork had
completely Gaelicized." I find almost 5000 Roches in the Griffith's Valuation,
some in Kilkenny where my family is from (matches you), also in Tipperary where
our other Bowe match's family is from. Slight spelling difference, but certainly
could be a connection in there.
> >
> > Martha
> >
> > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Diane Bowe <dianebowe2002@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting -My husband's father was named Roache as a first name  -how
is that for original -I assume a family name somewhere in there but can't prove
it -he came from the John Bow line who settled in the Goulds Newfoundland about
1840
> > >
> >
>

1167, Richard fitz Godbert de Roche, first Norman knight to land in Ireland. So
says Wikipedia so it must be true ;-)

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> You are right about that. I have a map here called "Ireland 1300-1600: Map
showing the location of the principal Gaelic septs together with the leading
families of Norman origin (the latter being indicated in purple ink)." Sure
enough, down there in Cork appears Roche in purple ink. In addition, a footnote
in the prior page in Foster's "Modern Ireland," after he first uses the term Old
English, clarifies: "The use of this term may be slightly anachronistic for
1600. A text like Advertisements for Ireland, 1623, distinguishes between 'the
English–Irish' and `Irish gentleman of the English Pale' [presumably planters]
like the Dillons. `The English of Irish birth' remained a general term up to
this time, `Old English' occurring as an adjective rather than as a noun.
`Anglo–Irish', often  in Latin, also appears. But for clarity's sake, the term
`Old English' will be adopted here from 1600 on."
>
> --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "bowes2000" <bowes2000@> wrote:
> >
> > An offering to add to the pot, as far as I recall the Roaches arrived in
Ireland as part of the Norman-Cambro (Welsh) invasion/colonization, I have an
understanding it to be a Norman name/origin and not 'English' in the sense
usually understood. Hope that adds a little light.
> >
> > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Diane, I just found a reference in "Modern Ireland 1600-1972" by RF
Foster, p. 13, "[by 1600] Old English families like the Barrys and Roches of
Cork had completely Gaelicized." I find almost 5000 Roches in the Griffith's
Valuation, some in Kilkenny where my family is from (matches you), also in
Tipperary where our other Bowe match's family is from. Slight spelling
difference, but certainly could be a connection in there.
> > >
> > > Martha
> > >
> > > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Diane Bowe <dianebowe2002@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Interesting -My husband's father was named Roache as a first name  -how
is that for original -I assume a family name somewhere in there but can't prove
it -he came from the John Bow line who settled in the Goulds Newfoundland about
1840
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

That's the feller alright, what a bunch of bully-boys those Normans were, can
confirm that Roache is a name found along the Suir Valley in Tipperary, an area
that came under Norman control. Oh and while I tink about it, you may wish to
research theuse of 'bows' in Ireland, I could have this all wrong, but my
understanding is that they were not used in Ireland until their introduction,
probably via the Norman-Cambro invasion. If that is the case it requires a
re-examination of any claimed origin of the Bowes/Bowe etc Irish name as
deriving from that weapon, since the name may well have preceded the arrival of
the bow by centuries.

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> 1167, Richard fitz Godbert de Roche, first Norman knight to land in Ireland.
So says Wikipedia so it must be true ;-)
>
> --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@> wrote:
> >
> > You are right about that. I have a map here called "Ireland 1300-1600: Map
showing the location of the principal Gaelic septs together with the leading
families of Norman origin (the latter being indicated in purple ink)." Sure
enough, down there in Cork appears Roche in purple ink. In addition, a footnote
in the prior page in Foster's "Modern Ireland," after he first uses the term Old
English, clarifies: "The use of this term may be slightly anachronistic for
1600. A text like Advertisements for Ireland, 1623, distinguishes between 'the
English–Irish' and `Irish gentleman of the English Pale' [presumably planters]
like the Dillons. `The English of Irish birth' remained a general term up to
this time, `Old English' occurring as an adjective rather than as a noun.
`Anglo–Irish', often  in Latin, also appears. But for clarity's sake, the term
`Old English' will be adopted here from 1600 on."
> >
> > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "bowes2000" <bowes2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > An offering to add to the pot, as far as I recall the Roaches arrived in
Ireland as part of the Norman-Cambro (Welsh) invasion/colonization, I have an
understanding it to be a Norman name/origin and not 'English' in the sense
usually understood. Hope that adds a little light.
> > >
> > > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Diane, I just found a reference in "Modern Ireland 1600-1972" by RF
Foster, p. 13, "[by 1600] Old English families like the Barrys and Roches of
Cork had completely Gaelicized." I find almost 5000 Roches in the Griffith's
Valuation, some in Kilkenny where my family is from (matches you), also in
Tipperary where our other Bowe match's family is from. Slight spelling
difference, but certainly could be a connection in there.
> > > >
> > > > Martha
> > > >
> > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Diane Bowe <dianebowe2002@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting -My husband's father was named Roache as a first name 
-how is that for original -I assume a family name somewhere in there but can't
prove it -he came from the John Bow line who settled in the Goulds Newfoundland
about 1840
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/news/early-irish-ely-carroll-bow.html

The cross-post follows this note:

We have a bit of a complication in that there may be people in this Yahoo group
who are not part of the Ely Carroll DNA subgroup that has its own Yahoo group,
but both groups have an interest in the traditional surname histories for Irish
Bowe, placing its origin in Cork. Rather than try to cross post discussions
relevant to that question, you might consider joining the Ely Carroll Yahoo
group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elycarroll/) if you are interested in Cork
origins. That way you won't miss a post/thread in one group that is not in the
other. I am cross-posting my recent Ely Carroll Yahoo group post on this so you
can get an idea why the topic is relevant to both groups, at least at this
juncture.

From my RSS post:

"The traditional Irish Bowe surname histories state that Irish Bowe originated
in Cork
[http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/findings_2/origins/irish-origins/irish-ancient\
-origins-cork/]. We will continue to explore whether there is any evidence of
this Ely Carroll line having come up from Cork, whether a different early Irish
line taking the name Bowe came from Cork, or whether our discovery overturns
those histories and instead shows the Gaelic precursors to the Bowe name have
always been in the Midlands. Further growth in the DNA Project should help to
clarify this."

Now to the cross-post…

Re: Bowen of Ely O'Carroll

Using your e-mail text for more clarification:
____
The great grandfather of the original Ely Carroll is:

102. Cnamhin ("cnaimh": Irish, a bone): his son; a quo O'Cnaimhin, anglicised
Nevin, MacNevin, Bone, Bonass, and Bowen.

From O'Hart:
http://books.google.com/books?id=elNmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA178#v=onepage&q&f=false

I am wondering what you think of the connection between Bowen in O'Hart and the
7 people named Bowe(s) and Bohan that we have DNA for? It seems to me that
Cnamhin is the origin of Bowe and Bohan.
____

That's interesting. I had not taken a close look at the pedigree before. It
looks like that Gaelic precursor to Bowen would have lived approximately 625
years prior to Daniel.

Since O'Hart says the surnames Nevin and Bone came from the same gaelic root as
Bowen, then if Bowe is a surname variant on this line, over time we would expect
to find some genetic matches with Nevin and Bone. So far, there are five Nevin,
14 Bone and 55 Bowen in the FTDNA database but none show up as a match to our
Bowe, even at 12 markers. Something to watch for though. I don't have the
ability to check for matches in the Bohan group.

I have copies of the Bowe/Bowes pages from Woulfe's 1967 Irish Names and
Surnames, which happen to have some of these other names falling on the same
page and, to the extent that this information is correct, gives more information
about where the names originated. Another interesting association emerges. He
indicates that:

Bowen derives from:

1. O'Cnaimin *but in Clare*,

2. Botun in Leix and parts of Munster, and

3. Buadacain in Cork.

Does this suggest that if ever there are Bowen matches in Ely Carroll they most
likely would have derived from Botύn in Leix, or might they have come from
O'Cnaimin but in Clare? The Griffith's distribution map for Bowen shows it is
clearly and very heavily concentrated in Cork and scant in Leix, showing
Buadacain in Cork to be the predominant (not necessarily only) origin of that
name.


Bone derives from:

1. Botun in Leix


Bones derives from:

1. Cnaim in Mayo,

2. Cnamaig in some parts of Mayo.

Here's where I think it gets a little complicated but interesting…

Bohan, Bohanan, Bohane, Boohan, Boughan, Bouhan derive from:

1. Buadacain but no place given other than a possibly significant footnote that
Bohane has origins *"in the neighborhood of Skibbereen [and] is generally used
as a nickname for a branch of the O'Sullivan's."*

What is possibly significant about this is that Skibbereen is in the Corca
region of Cork, where according to Woulfe the Bowe name comes from. Meanwhile
others have placed the origin of Bowe among the Eoghanacta within a Sullivan
line.

According to Woulfe, Buadhaigh (variant of Buadacain, both meaning victorious)
was anglicized Bogue in Cork and became Bowe in the midlands. Many Bogues in
Cork consider themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivan's, but Woulfe believed
that was a misunderstanding based on the common use of the name Buadhaigh among
the Sullivans.

So we have: Bohan/e and Bowe both having origins in the Gaelic name for
victorious and in the Corca region and as a branch of the O'Sullivans. Corca was
McCarthy territory, so I don't know if the O'Sullivans were really there, or if
that association was a leap because Buadhaigh was a common name among the
O'Sullivans. Did the surname historians split the wire by giving them separate
origins but in the same region? I can see where phonetically Buadacain might
lead to Bohan and Buadhaigh might lead to Bogue>Bowe, suggesting separate lines
originating from separate individuals in the Corca region. But, could the
historians error, being told the root of Bowe is a Corca individual whose Gaelic
name meant victorious, have been making Bowe a derivation of Bogue rather than
Bohan/e?

The Griffith's Valuation shows 71 Bohanes, all but 1 in Cork. Bohans have a
strong Cork showing too, but also other counties, especially Leitrim.

Putting all this together, and not having done anything more thorough than this,
is the stronger association between Bowen and Cnamhin (possibly of Clare origin)
becoming Bohan/Bowe, or Bohan/e/Bowe from the Corca region with a possible
Sullivan connection?

So far there is no DNA connection between our Bowe and Sullivans or Corca
surnames
(http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/findings_2/origins/irish-origins/irish-ancient\
\
-origins-cork/can-dna-help.html), but as the second theorizer on that page
suggests, the region was probably peopled with a variety of DNA, much of which
is probably not in the database. And if the origin is Corca, how did that DNA
get in the O'Carroll line or vice versa?

Or is it just a breakaway O'Carroll line that took the name of its leader,
possibly with some association to the Gaelic word for cow, an animal often
mentioned with reference to Ely Carroll?

On the one hand I like to not leave any stone unturned and am comfortable,
actually prefer, not making conclusions until I can trace the logical steps; on
the other hand I can definitely overthink things, so call me on it if I am
missing the forest for the trees! Or, to mix metaphors, maybe I fell in a pond
of red herrings.

[Sorry for any voice recognition errors I've missed.]

--- In elycarroll@yahoogroups.com, "peterabiggins" <pabiggin@...> wrote:
>
> Martha,
> Have you seen O'Hart's reference to Bowen in generation 102 of his pedigree of
Ely O'Carroll. I have added a link.
> Peter
>

I am copying this to a new topic for a new member who sent it directly to me by
accident, by replying to her welcome letter after joining this group. I tried
e-mailing to her to post herself, but for some reason my mail program is
bouncing e-mails to her even though they worked in recent days.…

"Hi my grandmother was a bowes before marriage she was born around 1895 her name
was Teresa Bowes and my gt grandad was Richard Bowes who was born around 1864 in
Ireland i do have more information on Richard's family so would be delighted if
i can be of any help to  other BOWES.  I found your website when i Google Bowes
surname so i do hope to hear from other group members."

Having previously corresponded with this contributor, it seems that she relates
to our Ely Carroll subgroup, her closest relation being kit number 30445 at
http://tinyurl.com/2cdqyeo.

Martha, for a new member

Hi to our new member,

Coincidently I have recently sent out letters to the Bowe and Bowes families of
Southern Ireland in an attempt to create a survey of who was living in Ireland
long ago and as much information about them as possible. If we can create a
census and map out our ancestors we might be able to untangle some of the family
lines more easily. I would like to be able to add your family's ancestors to our
survey. Please email Martha, she will send you my email address so we can
correspond.

Welcome to the group!

Jeane

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> I am copying this to a new topic for a new member who sent it directly to me
by accident, by replying to her welcome letter after joining this group. I tried
e-mailing to her to post herself, but for some reason my mail program is
bouncing e-mails to her even though they worked in recent days.…
>
> "Hi my grandmother was a bowes before marriage she was born around 1895 her
name was Teresa Bowes and my gt grandad was Richard Bowes who was born around
1864 in Ireland i do have more information on Richard's family so would be
delighted if i can be of any help to  other BOWES.  I found your website when i
Google Bowes surname so i do hope to hear from other group members."
>
> Having previously corresponded with this contributor, it seems that she
relates to our Ely Carroll subgroup, her closest relation being kit number 30445
at http://tinyurl.com/2cdqyeo.
>
> Martha, for a new member
>

It's interesting to contemplate how we might record all the data we can get from
all the Irish family lines in a way that will most easily help us to find
connections. I sent an e-mail to the  Guild of One Name Studies forum to mine
their experience for ideas. I know many of them use vast spreadsheets of BMD
information, one row per individual, sortable by columns, and color-coded by
families. Others might be using gedcom software to enter the known family
fragments as separate branches or trees, hopefully connecting them as
connections become apparent. Initially, I wonder if the best we can do is just
to scratch it out on paper and see what emerges. In the back of my mind I
picture being able to print out every record from the parish records online to
help piece it all together, but it may be quite expensive because they charge
per record at the Irish Family History Foundation website. Just thinking out
loud here.

Martha

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Jeane Robinson" <jbowes110@...> wrote:
>
> Hi to our new member,
>
> Coincidently I have recently sent out letters to the Bowe and Bowes families
of Southern Ireland in an attempt to create a survey of who was living in
Ireland long ago and as much information about them as possible. If we can
create a census and map out our ancestors we might be able to untangle some of
the family lines more easily. I would like to be able to add your family's
ancestors to our survey. Please email Martha, she will send you my email address
so we can correspond.
>
> Welcome to the group!
>
> Jeane

Since I now know that we have visitors to this site who haven't joined and don't
post, I would like to bring your attention to my research project. If you have
ANY information on a Bowe/s born in Ireland at any time I would like to add them
to my research project. You can email me at Hotmail. That would be
Jeaner@h*tmail.com

I'm looking for their name obviously.
Date and place of birth
Siblings, children, and spouse
Religion and occupation
Place and date of death

Your name and contact info if you don't mind.

If you don't have ALL that info any bit of it will still be useful.

Jeane

Hi. Interested in finding the parents for John Bowes born c. 1838 Ill. His
mother's name was Anna.  She remarried to Michael Maher.
John Bowes name is later found as John Maher Bowes in San Francisco. He married
Caroline Ford.  Their son was Edward J. Bowes of the "Major Bowes Show".

Hello Ann,

Sorry it looks like no one on our list has a connection for you. If you had time
to look at the link I posted in your message thread ancestry.com–the link to the
surname study–then you probably now know about our Bowes DNA project. I can't
think of anyone currently participating who has any direct link into your family
tree, but if you have any living male Bowes relatives who could participate, you
might at least find out through Y-chromosome matching whether your Bowes family
may have originally been in Ireland, England or Scotland. You would also then be
notified of any new matches that come along that may be able to tie into your
family tree. If you have any interest, post back or e-mail me and we can go over
it in more detail. Family Three DNA currently has a discount for new
participants through the end of the month.

http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/dna_project_pages/

Martha Bowes

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <ABaugh9618@...> wrote:
>
> Hi. Interested in finding the parents for John Bowes born c. 1838 Ill. His
mother's name was Anna.  She remarried to Michael Maher.
> John Bowes name is later found as John Maher Bowes in San Francisco. He
married Caroline Ford.  Their son was Edward J. Bowes of the "Major Bowes Show".
>

Hello Ann,

I thought of something when I read your e-mail to me this morning and thought I
would post it here.

It's interesting to see that your Anna married both a Bowes and a Maher in the
US. If her son John's father, X Bowes, were from Ireland, it would not be a
surprise to find that he had been from the midland counties (including
especially Kilkenny, Laois or Tipperary) where the Bowe name has a high
frequency. Some of these Irish Bowe families added an "s" to their name making
it Bowes (my family is one example). In at least a couple cases they appear to
have done this when they emigrated, but it's not entirely clear why. At any
rate, the Maher surname is associated with the same area in Ireland, that
surname originating around Cashel, Tipperary. Often, people of different
families emigrated from one community in Ireland and settled together in a new
community in North America. So I wonder if Anna married a Bowes and Maher both
in Illinois. This might suggest those families shared roots in Ireland,
somewhere in the midland counties.

Through our DNA Project we have discovered that one of our Bowe subgroups from
that region in Ireland matches a Carroll clan who were the past ruling clan of
the Ely Carroll region. The Maher clan also has ties to Ely Carroll.

If you have a living male Maher in your family, you could have him test his
Y-chromosome to see if it matches the other Ely Carroll surnames, if it
interests you.

If you have a living male Bowes in your family, you could have him test his
Y-chromosome to see if he matches the subgroup in our Bowes FTDNA project with
ties to the Carrolls of Ely Carroll.

See:

http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Bowes
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Meagher
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/elycarroll/default.aspx

Joining these groups, when it's possible, i Ins another way to locate others
related to your families of interest.

Post back if you have any questions, Martha

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <ABaugh9618@...> wrote:
>
> Hi. Interested in finding the parents for John Bowes born c. 1838 Ill. His
mother's name was Anna.  She remarried to Michael Maher.
> John Bowes name is later found as John Maher Bowes in San Francisco. He
married Caroline Ford.  Their son was Edward J. Bowes of the "Major Bowes Show".
>

Good chance of it I'd say :-), and thanks for the compliment, though I'm a bit
of an over-thinker! :-)

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, dianebowe2002@... wrote:
>
> My first john was married to a mary ellen gafney. I always thought may be they
came from the same area in ireland.

Ann,

I just found this Kansas Bowe/s reference: "Lawrence A. Bowes was born on 22 Nov
1837 in Johnstown, County Kilkenny, Ireland, died on 27 Jul 1914 in Louisburg,
Miami County, KS at age 76, and was buried in St. Mary Cemetery, Louisburg,
Miami County, KS."[http://www.oatney.org/Family_Bowes.htm]

You may be able to use this information searching vital records  in Kansas to
find a connection to your family?

Martha

>
> --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <ABaugh9618@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi. Interested in finding the parents for John Bowes born c. 1838 Ill. His
mother's name was Anna.  She remarried to Michael Maher.
> > John Bowes name is later found as John Maher Bowes in San Francisco. He
married Caroline Ford.  Their son was Edward J. Bowes of the "Major Bowes Show".
> >
>

This was further down the page:

"The connection between the BOWES and OTTENI families is through Lawrence A.
Bowes when he married Mary Louisa 'Lida' Flemm, daughter of Theresia Otteni and
granddaughter of Benedict Otteni. Lawrence and Lida, along with other Bowes
family members, migrated [from Ohio] to Kansas City, MO before 1880."

If you can link to this family your line is most certainly from Johnstown,
Kilkenny, the same location where one of the participants in our DNA project
belonging to the Ely Carroll subgroup of Bowe/s from Ireland has had family for
the last 400 years at least. That in itself wouldn't prove you are related to
the Irish Ely Carroll subgroup through your  patrilineal Bowes line, but points
in that direction.

Martha

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> Ann,
>
> I just found this Kansas Bowe/s reference: "Lawrence A. Bowes was born on 22
Nov 1837 in Johnstown, County Kilkenny, Ireland, died on 27 Jul 1914 in
Louisburg, Miami County, KS at age 76, and was buried in St. Mary Cemetery,
Louisburg, Miami County, KS."[http://www.oatney.org/Family_Bowes.htm]
>
> You may be able to use this information searching vital records  in Kansas to
find a connection to your family?
>
> Martha
>
> >
> > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <ABaugh9618@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi. Interested in finding the parents for John Bowes born c. 1838 Ill. His
mother's name was Anna.  She remarried to Michael Maher.
> > > John Bowes name is later found as John Maher Bowes in San Francisco. He
married Caroline Ford.  Their son was Edward J. Bowes of the "Major Bowes Show".
> > >
> >
>

I got a tip from a correspondent in Ireland who does not really research Bowe.
Apparently there's a "small article ... on bowe family history in this weeks 
IRELANDS OWN." I googled the magazine and I gather it is a very old publication,
sometimes criticized for being fairly shallow. I can't find anything on their
current issues online. If anyone in this group living in Ireland can get a hold
of it, it would be interesting to see what it says, and maybe you can post back
here.

Martha Bowes

Thanks, but that's actually a page from the surname study website. The one just
published is in a weekly magazine that's not online. It may relate something
similar though, I haven't seen it.

Martha

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Diane Bowe <dianebowe2002@...> wrote:
>
>
http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/dna_project_pages/participants/haplogroup_r1b/r\
1b1b2a1a/ireland_tipperary_-_bowess/
>
> Here it is I think
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mhbowes11 <mhbowes11@...>
> To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 12:18:42 PM
> Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Recent Bowe Article In Ireland
>
>  
> I got a tip from a correspondent in Ireland who does not really research Bowe.
> Apparently there's a "small article ... on bowe family history in this weeks
> IRELANDS OWN." I googled the magazine and I gather it is a very old
publication,
> sometimes criticized for being fairly shallow. I can't find anything on their
> current issues online. If anyone in this group living in Ireland can get a
hold
> of it, it would be interesting to see what it says, and maybe you can post
back
> here.
>
> Martha Bowes
>

I would like a reading list on Irish History. I'm interested in anything about
the Kilkenny area, the Ely Carroll too.

I have a few books already, I'm looking for your favorite.

My husband picked up "The Feckin' Book of Irish History at Barnes and Noble for
$8.00. It is a very general overview but FUNNY! I give it a thumbs up for a
beginner guide to Irish history.

I'm also interested in understanding more about the development of surnames.
Does anyone know of a book that would guide me along those lines?

TIA

If you use these services, consider jumping over and helping me kick start them!
I'm excited about expanding the avenues for others researching our names to find
us...

Facebook

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bowes-and-variants-Surname-Study-and-DNA-Project/2\
06495142707439?sk=wall

Twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/BowesSurnames

Martha

Oops, correct Twitter link...

http://twitter.com/BowesSurnames

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes11@...> wrote:
>
> If you use these services, consider jumping over and helping me kick start
them! I'm excited about expanding the avenues for others researching our names
to find us...
>
> Facebook
>
>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bowes-and-variants-Surname-Study-and-DNA-Project/2\
06495142707439?sk=wall
>
> Twitter
>
> http://twitter.com/#!/BowesSurnames
>
> Martha
>

Searching for any information on the family of Cecil F Bowes originally from the
North of England Any information would be appreciated

Hi, I'm not familiar with your specific family, but you gave me an idea to help
those who come to this group looking for connections but don't find one yet.

I started a document to collect links to websites where we can follow mailing
lists, researchers, websites and family trees of others with our surname(s). I
just started it this morning and I'm sure I am missing a lot of resources. I
don't intend so much to re-create Cyndi's massive list of online genealogy
resources but to try to target web discussions specifically related to our
name(s).

Feel free to add links you know about to the document. I'm sure others here can
think of some sources offhand that I'm not.

http://bit.ly/eW5x23

Martha Bowes

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "ceccb" <ceccb@...> wrote:
>
> Searching for any information on the family of Cecil F Bowes originally from
the North of England Any information would be appreciated
>

I was at the local university library yesterday and discovered two long aisles
of books about Irish history, and that's in the middle of the desert! Five hours
later I emerged back into daylight under intense pressure from my stomach.

One of my favorite things to do besides prowling libraries is to go to used
bookstores. I often take a peek at the standard Barnes & Noble or Borders, but I
have found more unusual options at used bookstores. I always stand there and
search the internet on my phone for reviews before buying anything. Often, since
I'm not that knowledgeable about the offerings, a book will look just fine to me
but I will decide against buying it based on the reviews.

Unfortunately most of my books are boxed up right now. I'm not sure I have a
favorite except that one I can't think of the name of right now has a ton of
maps relating to various aspects of Irish history.

There is a nine volume set that is relatively new and considered more or less
the "gold standard" as an Irish history reference, incorporating modern research
by expert scholars on the subjects they cover within the set. Unfortunately it
is quite expensive. You can find it in libraries or at Amazon.

It's called A New History of Ireland: "A New History of Ireland is the largest
scholarly project in modern Irish history. In 9 volumes, it provides a
comprehensive new synthesis of modern scholarship on every aspect of Irish
history and prehistory, from the earliest geological and archaeological
evidence, through the Middle Ages, down to the present day."

I'm starting to think that rather than throw a little bit of money at a lot of
Irish history books over the years, I should probably just buy one huge volume
at a time of this set.

Hope this helps, Martha

--- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Jeane Robinson" <jbowes110@...> wrote:
>
> I would like a reading list on Irish History. I'm interested in anything about
the Kilkenny area, the Ely Carroll too.
>
> I have a few books already, I'm looking for your favorite.
>
> My husband picked up "The Feckin' Book of Irish History at Barnes and Noble
for $8.00. It is a very general overview but FUNNY! I give it a thumbs up for a
beginner guide to Irish history.
>
> I'm also interested in understanding more about the development of surnames.
Does anyone know of a book that would guide me along those lines?
>
> TIA
>

Is your genealogical finding credible? Is that your ancestor or a red herring?
You can keep GPS, the Genealogical Proof Standard, handy to help you decide:
http://tinyurl.com/2ux8b.