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  • Category: Boating
  • Founded: Jul 13, 1999
  • Language: English
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#66187 From: "RSS" <otter55806@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:01 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
otter55806
Send Email Send Email
 
Hmm. On longevity. One of the only benefits of growing older (old?)at 62 is that
the longevity I need is greatly reduced LOL!
Bob

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> > I am up to around $1100 much to my horror
>
> Consider the option to expensive wood.  The longevity of my boats
> doesn't need to be eternal.  My luaun plywood/HomeDepot lumber boats
> have lasted at least ten years, longer if stored in a dry place.
> Costs of a Spur II
>
> 6 sheets of luaun plywood = $150
> Framing lumber = $50
> Glass, epoxy  = $150
> Sandpaper, and misc. = $150
>
> $500 for materials in a Spur II
>

#66188 From: "Walter" <walter@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
wearydwarf
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Peter <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes,
> > > I am willing to
> > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.
> >
> > I'm not a builder, even as an amateur, but that seems pretty optimistic to,
even if you leave out the time required to obtain the materials, sharpen the
tools, etc.
> >
>
>
> I say 40 hours after building the similar lapstrake rowboat "Cartoon
> 5" in 40 manhours.  It lacks a degree of fit and finish, but it still
> is a great rowboat.
>
> Here is a photo album of that build...
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
>
So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost
of a boat ?
Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit
and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.

#66189 From: "Peter" <pvanderwaart@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
pvanderwaart
Send Email Send Email
 
> So I guess you don't count building frames,
> a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?

It was clear in the original post that the building mold, and plank templates,
etc, were considered sunk costs, i.e. not included in the time estimate. And,
the original post was only about the elapsed time of building, not about what
might be included in a fair market price for the finished boat (which should
include some shop overhead which would include shop-made molds and templates as
well as heat, light, rent, and store-bought tools).

My remark about time obtaining supplies and sharpening tools was meant to
suggest that the "time per additional boat" needed some hours of getting ready
before the work could actually start.

#66190 From: BruceHallman <hallman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:31 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Spur II on craigslist
brucehallman
Send Email Send Email
 
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
>

> > http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
> >
> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost
of a boat ?
> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit
and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.

I agree that fit and finish do count!  And, that is a double edged
sword.  Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
of dollars.  'rough' quality can take much less.  The numerous craft
defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
not matter at all to the water in the lake.  Now, 4 years later, that
boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.

As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
  The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
gunnels.

If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
hours of measuring.

#66191 From: "Walter" <walter@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
wearydwarf
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:
> >
>
> > > http://community.webshots.com/album/360982713bZwutE
> > >
> > So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the
cost of a boat ?
> > Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building.
Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>
> I agree that fit and finish do count!  And, that is a double edged
> sword.  Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
> of dollars.  'rough' quality can take much less.  The numerous craft
> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
> not matter at all to the water in the lake.  Now, 4 years later, that
> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>
> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
>  The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
> gunnels.
>
> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
> hours of measuring.
>
All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and
hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it
for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to
write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat
building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So
have fun building and speculating on building boats.

#66192 From: "slrrls2000" <slrrls2000@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:44 pm
Subject: island time
slrrls2000
Send Email Send Email
 
I saw the AS29 Island time in the photos section.
I searched posts for island time but did not find any info for the boat.

Is the builder present on the list? Can you ad some completed photos and tell
how she sails and helms?

Is this a modified AS29 or built from plan?
Very interesting boat, I hope your happy with it.

#66193 From: Harry James <welshman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:01 pm
Subject: Cheap trailer
harryjak
Send Email Send Email
 
Northern Hydraulics light boat trailer, should fit a lot of small Bolger
boats. Free shipping right now.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_1063_1063

Thinking strongly of getting one myself.

HJ

#66194 From: Harry James <welshman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:23 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Spur II on craigslist
harryjak
Send Email Send Email
 
The one thing I know about building wooden boats for a living is that it
is an avocation not a vocation. Its is something you want to or are even
driven to do. It is not the way to fame and fortune. My father was a
classically trained Master ship wright. Building small cruising boats
was a joy to him and he built a bunch but he made a living in the
Industrial yards and and yards like Lester Stones  in the Bay area that
built for the rich.

On the subject of speed, the pros of that era (pre and post world war II
) were incredibly fast at producing very high level wood work and with
out hand power tools.  I remember my brother and father putting the hull
of a 16' skiboat together in a week end with the only power tool a
bandsaw running on a Brigs & Stratton. I think about that as I plod
slowly along with almost every known power tool to man in my shop.

HJ

On 4/28/2011 7:14 AM, Walter wrote:
>>
>>> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the
cost of a boat ?
>>> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building.
Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>> I agree that fit and finish do count!  And, that is a double edged
>> sword.  Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
>> of dollars.  'rough' quality can take much less.  The numerous craft
>> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
>> not matter at all to the water in the lake.  Now, 4 years later, that
>> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>>
>> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
>> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
>> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
>>   The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
>> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
>> gunnels.
>>
>> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
>> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
>> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
>> hours of measuring.
>>
> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and
hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it
for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to
write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat
building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So
have fun building and speculating on building boats.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
Groups Links
>
>
>
>

#66195 From: "Connor, Patrick" <pconnor@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:39 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Spur II on craigslist
patcboi
Send Email Send Email
 

Harry's comments were noted by PCB as regards to the skills of old time boatbuilders who, without the aid of small handheld power tools, were able to work very fast on demanding boat carpentry projects and complete boat more quickly than most of us could imagine today.
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu Apr 28 13:23:17 2011
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Spur II on craigslist

 

The one thing I know about building wooden boats for a living is that it
is an avocation not a vocation. Its is something you want to or are even
driven to do. It is not the way to fame and fortune. My father was a
classically trained Master ship wright. Building small cruising boats
was a joy to him and he built a bunch but he made a living in the
Industrial yards and and yards like Lester Stones in the Bay area that
built for the rich.

On the subject of speed, the pros of that era (pre and post world war II
) were incredibly fast at producing very high level wood work and with
out hand power tools. I remember my brother and father putting the hull
of a 16' skiboat together in a week end with the only power tool a
bandsaw running on a Brigs & Stratton. I think about that as I plod
slowly along with almost every known power tool to man in my shop.

HJ

On 4/28/2011 7:14 AM, Walter wrote:
>>
>>> So I guess you don't count building frames, a jig, and templates into the cost of a boat ?
>>> Speed of construction is not the only thing that counts in boat building. Fit and finish do count , as do quality materials and construction techniques.
>> I agree that fit and finish do count! And, that is a double edged
>> sword. Museum quality boats can take hundreds of hours and thousands
>> of dollars. 'rough' quality can take much less. The numerous craft
>> defects in my 40 hour quick and dirty lapstrake build (see above) do
>> not matter at all to the water in the lake. Now, 4 years later, that
>> boat is still fully functional and one of my favorites.
>>
>> As to the frame and templates, the construction method specified by
>> Bolger in the Spur II design involves having the permanent frames
>> being sacrificial template frames that remain permanently in the boat.
>> The jig backbone is a pair of 2x6's (included in the $50 of lumber)
>> which you later rip into strips and use on the seats and sheerline
>> gunnels.
>>
>> If I were to build these boats for sale in multiple copies, I think
>> that time could be saved by having a permanent frame/backbone and by
>> having the expanded strakes be hard templates. This could save several
>> hours of measuring.
>>
> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and speculating on building boats.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


#66196 From: Greg Kay <gregmkay@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
gregmkay
Send Email Send Email
 
I've had two of their trailers, a 4x4 and a 4x8 -- ordinary, not boat -- and both of those seem to be of good quality. The larger one is new, but I hauled the 4x4 with a 4' plywood high box on it full of luggage and camping gear all the way from West Virginia to Nogales on the Arizona border with Mexico, up to Rocky Mountain National Park, and back home again, with part of the trip spent on rough dirt desert back roads, and had no failures at all. If their boat trailers are as good as this one...


From: Harry James <welshman@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 2:01:57 PM
Subject: [bolger] Cheap trailer

 

Northern Hydraulics light boat trailer, should fit a lot of small Bolger
boats. Free shipping right now.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_1063_1063

Thinking strongly of getting one myself.

HJ


#66197 From: "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
prairiedog2332
Send Email Send Email
 
I would suggest that if you ever have the opportunity to visit a small
builder do so. There is a lot more to it than the construction itself. I
have visited a few over the years including Dynamite himself and it is a
real eye-opener.

For one thing just how fast and accurately they can work and the other
thing how low their actual profit is at the end of the day. Ideally you
need a full-time go-fer, clean-up and shop slave as well in order to
concentrate on doing what you are most skilled at doing and a wife that
has strong book-keeping and organizational ability. Shop space to have
several builds going at one time and secure storage space for the
materials, completed hulls etc.

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Walter" <walter@...> wrote:

> All I am trying to say is that there is a lot more than materials
costs and hours of labor involved in making a living building boats. I
have been doing it for over 30 years, I wish it were as simple as
materials and labor. I started to write a response which included an
explanation of the actual business of boat building, but soon realized
that it would take many hours and many pages. So have fun building and
speculating on building boats.
>

#66198 From: Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
joe_strom2000
Send Email Send Email
 
$460 would buy you 3 serviceable used trailers off Craigslist if you're patient. At least it would in my neck of the woods.
Best,
Joe


From: Harry James <welshman@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Cheap trailer

 
Northern Hydraulics light boat trailer, should fit a lot of small Bolger
boats. Free shipping right now.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_1063_1063

Thinking strongly of getting one myself.

HJ



#66199 From: Harry James <welshman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
harryjak
Send Email Send Email
 
All in where you live

On our Craigs list there are 3 want to buys for boat trailers.

SE AK.

HJ

On 4/28/2011 11:55 AM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
$460 would buy you 3 serviceable used trailers off Craigslist if you're patient. At least it would in my neck of the woods.
Best,
Joe


From: Harry James <welshman@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Cheap trailer

 
Northern Hydraulics light boat trailer, should fit a lot of small Bolger
boats. Free shipping right now.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_1063_1063

Thinking strongly of getting one myself.

HJ



#66200 From: BruceHallman <hallman@...>
Date: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
brucehallman
Send Email Send Email
 
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Joseph Stromski
<j.stromski@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> $460 would buy you 3 serviceable used trailers off Craigslist if you're
patient. At least it would in my neck of the woods.
> Best,
> Joe
>

And, were I live, those three used trailers would have junker boats on
them.  You can have the trailer for cheap, but the dump site charges
$300 to take the junk boat as landfill.

#66201 From: "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:47 am
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
rogerhuckleb...
Send Email Send Email
 
Bruce, what is the dump rate per ton there?
 
If you don't already have one, a really good sawzall costs about $150. In one afternoon with a respirator for the toxic dust and a sawzall, you could cut most trailerable boats into 4 foot square, mostly flat pieces, that would meet most dump regulations for regular trash that gets charged by the ton.
 
As a destruction tool, a sawzall with a coarse blade is amazing. With a fine blade used with care, a sawzall can do a lot of construction tasks that are very difficult with any other kind of tool.
 
Where I live (just outside of the City of Seattle) the dump rate is $102 per ton, and most small boats weigh a lot less that a ton.
 
Buying a cheap trailer, that includes a hopelessly rotted boat, sounds to me like a perfect justification to buy a good sawzall that pays for itself in reduced dump fees for the dead boat.
 
Sincerely,
Roger
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "BruceHallman" <hallman@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Cheap trailer
>
> And, were I live, those three used trailers would have junker boats on
> them.  You can have the trailer for cheap, but the dump site charges
> $300 to take the junk boat as landfill.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: 
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
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>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
>   
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
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>   
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> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   
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>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>   
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

#66202 From: Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:55 am
Subject: Re: Re: Spur II on craigslist
hhetyson
Send Email Send Email
 
Bruce Hallman made the comment:
 
"The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster
."
 
This may be true; but if it turned out looking like that cheap 3mm? bent sheer version of Spur II you built a few years ago I honestly think you would have to pay someone to take it off your hands. I know you built that one extra fast, over a weekend I recall?  It was functional to be sure, as we've seen pictures of it on the water, but seriously nobody would pay someone to built a boat extra fast to that standard with virtually no re-sale value and dubious longevity!? Is it still around or has it disintergrated?.
 
I'm pleased to see that your "Topaz Spyder" appears to be of a far higher build standard and should look great on the water. It pays no to rush things!!! ??



From: BruceHallman <hallman@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 28 April, 2011 12:18:27 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Spur II on craigslist

 

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Walter <walter@...> wrote:

> $3,200- $1,000 materials =$2,200 labor. Say 100 hrs labor, probably more . $2,200/100= $22/hr. Good luck.

The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster.


#66203 From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:21 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
marka97203
Send Email Send Email
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/

Here's a rowboat Phil designed for himself and later offered in SBJ
#77,  replying to a request for boats built in series for good rowers
that could weigh 50 pounds and be built in 50 hours each.

A beautiful thing, the construction is plywood carvel. Narrow strips
of 1/4" make up many chines. No tape, both inside and out are glassed
to your liking.

   For building time, he was clear you couldn't do a one off in fifty
hours, but that well set up, 10 in 500 or 3 in 150 hours was
certainly possible, and mentioned getting under 80 pounds requires
4mm lapstrake.

I doubt many boats built lapstrake with minimal beveling and lots of
putty are particularly salable. But the Tom Hill method with a guide
strip on the jig allows high grade wood and sharp planes to fly at a
very  great rate.

As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.

#66204 From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:49 am
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
marka97203
Send Email Send Email
 
With a small car, what I liked about my own little Harbor Freight
utility trailer was the lightness. Even with a tongue extension and
the 12" wheels, it came in under 200 pounds.


On Apr 28, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:

> $460 would buy you 3 serviceable used trailers off Craigslist if
> you're patient. At least it would in my neck of the woods.
> Best,
> Joe

#66205 From: "apraphett777" <djsaprophet@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:45 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
apraphett777
Send Email Send Email
 
same here the really cheap trailers run $600-800 for the utility trailers ever
so occasionally someone does not want to finish a home built but by the time you
do the paper work for a home built NH is cheaper

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> All in where you live
>
> On our Craigs list there are 3 want to buys for boat trailers.
>
> SE AK.
>
> HJ
>
> On 4/28/2011 11:55 AM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
> >
> >
> > $460 would buy you 3 serviceable used trailers off Craigslist if
> > you're patient. At least it would in my neck of the woods.
> > Best,
> > Joe
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Harry James <welshman@...>
> > *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:01 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [bolger] Cheap trailer
> >
> > Northern Hydraulics light boat trailer, should fit a lot of small Bolger
> > boats. Free shipping right now.
> >
> > http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_1063_1063
> >
> > Thinking strongly of getting one myself.
> >
> > HJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#66206 From: "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:18 pm
Subject: Re: Cheap trailer
adventures_i...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Bruce,

> And, were I live, those three used trailers would have junker boats on
> them.  You can have the trailer for cheap, but the dump site charges
> $300 to take the junk boat as landfill.

Same here, but it might be possible to get a charity to take the boat, although
I've never tried it.  They might balk if it doesn't have a trailer, but it's
worth a phone call.

Jon

#66207 From: BruceHallman <hallman@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Spur II on craigslist
brucehallman
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On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruce Hallman made the comment:
>
> "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do it
> in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing to
> bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
>
> This may be true; but if it turned out looking like that cheap 3mm? bent sheer
version of Spur II you built a few years ago I honestly think you would have to
pay someone to take it off your hands. I know you built that one extra fast,
over a weekend I recall?  It was functional to be sure, as we've seen pictures
of it on the water, but seriously nobody would pay someone to built a boat extra
fast to that standard with virtually no re-sale value and dubious longevity!? Is
it still around or has it disintergrated?.
>

I welcome the criticism of that Spur II, and it is spot on.  I am
reminded that it was my first attempt, shameless self education in the
lapstrake construction method.  It suffered because I had no idea back
then how to spile, or loft expanded strakes.  Neither then did I
understand the benefit of using a lofted mold for intermediate frames.
  The 'bent sheer version" you describe was because I had no clue how
to build lapstrake on that first boat.  I did though learn a lot
building that boat, and that is what I has set out to do with that
project.

Since, I have lofted hundreds of boats and built several more, and
dozens of models.  I think I have learned even more about lofting and
could build another in much less time and much more "correctly"
shaped.  (The water doesn't care, but people's eyes do care.)

The last time a checked (about a year ago) that Spur II had required
one repair where two strakes had separated, but with that repair that
boat was still going strong, nine years old.

I also hear you about people in the market for a lapstrake boat
wanting good looks and best materials.  (They also usually want cheap
price.)  Those two desires conflict.

#66208 From: "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
prairiedog2332
Send Email Send Email
 
Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II  is the nicest looking pulling boat I
have ever seen.

http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> >
> > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
it
> > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
to
> > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."

#66209 From: Frank Baylee <fb99999@...>
Date: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:34 pm
Subject: (No subject)
fb99999
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http://www.millemigliaeng.com/modules/mod_osdonate/myblog.html

#66210 From: "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:47 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
c.ruzer
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/

> As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.

That deadrise shape - why not ply sheet chine v-bottom then? Let's say
Poohsticks, what about that?

#66211 From: "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:01 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
c.ruzer
Send Email Send Email
 
And

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/SpurII%20Bruce%20Tyson/

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II  is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> have ever seen.
>
> http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
>
> Nels

#66212 From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:58 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
marka97203
Send Email Send Email
 
Or Robote, what say? 
The idea in the cartoon was to test the plywood carvel skin. The chines just disappear with minimal fairing, leaving just smooth and round.

But to quote Phil,

" This design with her fine lines and flare all around should be first-class in a chop or among motorboat wakes.
Besides, the flaring sides look elegant. Wall-sided boats can be reasonably good looking, but they can never match the way a boat with this kind of section seems to skim with her keel just touching the water."

Running a straight edge between the keel and lower edge of the sheer strake gives less displacement, or, to compensate, a wider, higher sided, and probably heavier boat.


On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:47 PM, c.ruzer wrote:
 


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Temporary/

> As a less fragile alternative, June Bug was proposed.
That deadrise shape - why not ply sheet chine v-bottom then? Let's say Poohsticks, what about that?

__._

#66213 From: "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:36 am
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
c.ruzer
Send Email Send Email
 
> Running a straight edge between the keel and lower edge of the sheer
> strake gives less displacement, or, to compensate, a wider, higher
> sided, and probably heavier boat.

Not much less displacement. V for speed building the instant way. Foam sandwich
for lightness and strength of either. V bottom will track much better.

#66214 From: "etap28" <dave.irland@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
etap28
Send Email Send Email
 
Second that . . .


--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II  is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> have ever seen.
>
> http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
>
> Nels
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> > >
> > > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
> it
> > > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
> to
> > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
>

#66216 From: "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: Spur II on craigslist
prairiedog2332
Send Email Send Email
 
Re: Spur II on craigslist (KOHLENBERG)

Latest WB has an article about this boat and the builder who is from the
San Francisco area.

http://fishersmithwoodenboats.com/

"And given that he has invested more than 1000 hours building KOHLENBERG
and she is 'worth as much as an SUV' both he and the club hope the boat
will last a long time."

"The club" being "The Dolphin Swimming and Boating Club".

Nels

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
>
> Second that . . .
>
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > Greyfax, the Tyson built Spur II is the nicest looking pulling boat I
> > have ever seen.
> >
> > http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
> >
> > Nels
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Hugo Tyson hhetyson@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bruce Hallman made the comment:
> > > >
> > > > "The first one might take 100 hours, (I would take a bet I could do
> > it
> > > > in 60 hours). Then, after you had built the frame & station
> > > > bulkheads, and templates made of the expanded strakes, I am willing
> > to
> > > > bet you could churn out a second boat in 40 hours or even faster."
> >
>

#66217 From: "William" <kingw@...>
Date: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: island time
trimaran
Send Email Send Email
 
The only info I can add about this AS29 (modified) is that the boat appears (as
of 2009 to be located on a trailer in a field in Kansas.  The builder (Tom)
mentioned on another forum in late 2009 that he had sailed and cruised her along
the east coast of the US and Florida Keys.
http://frommars.smugmug.com/Other/Island-Time/11074751_7p5KX#775385279_8QcoQ

If you find anything else, please share here.

Bill, in Texas

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "slrrls2000" <slrrls2000@...> wrote:
>
> I saw the AS29 Island time in the photos section.
> I searched posts for island time but did not find any info for the boat.
>
> Is the builder present on the list? Can you ad some completed photos and tell
how she sails and helms?
>
> Is this a modified AS29 or built from plan?
> Very interesting boat, I hope your happy with it.
>

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