Hi Sam,

... snip...
> Anyone who can stand in an empty gull and
> scull it is a better man than I.

I'll second that!  I left the sculling notch out of my Long Light Dory
tombstone, simply because it was hard to cut out, but I can't imagine
standing up for long in that boat in anything but flat water.  It's
possible that the sculling oar would provide some balance, but I'm
happy to keep my butt on the seat and row.

Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm

Hi Wesley,

...snip...
Personally, I'm leaning toward a cart with 2 wheel barrow size
pneumatic wheels (to not sink in the sand, hopefully) which attaches
to the gunnels while the boat is still on the rack and a process I
envision that would never require lifting more than half the weight
of the boat.
...snip...

I built a hand cart that looks like a small wooden trailer for my
Long Light Dory.  It's a bit heavy, since it has a 4x4 backbone, but
it beats trailer launching for this sort of "in between" size boat.
I carry the boat and cart to the lake on 2x6 crosswise bunks bolted
to the deck of a 16' utility trailer, then roll the boat off using
cheap ramps and right into the water.  This also allows me to launch
off the small beach area away from the impatient crowd in their huge
plastic noisemakers.  If you have other use for a utility trailer
(and who doesn't) and a place to park it, I recommend looking into
this approach.  Besides, you can carry different boats you might
build later with the same trailer.

Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm

Yeah, but aren't they a sweet boat to row, and to look
at?  I always used to say mine was the prettiest boat
in the county, and she still would be, if I hadn't
built her out of luan.
--- adventures_in_astrophotography
<jon@...> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> ... snip...
> > Anyone who can stand in an empty gull and
> > scull it is a better man than I.
>
> I'll second that!  I left the sculling notch out of
> my Long Light Dory
> tombstone, simply because it was hard to cut out,
> but I can't imagine
> standing up for long in that boat in anything but
> flat water.  It's
> possible that the sculling oar would provide some
> balance, but I'm
> happy to keep my butt on the seat and row.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>




________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

Not Bolger except for the above. A kayak in the Southern Ocean - and
nearly there. Epic.

http://www.andrewmcauley.com/

Graeme

All it takes is for the water temperature to be below the dew point on a
particular day.

-----Original Message-----
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:24 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


Two questions. Would there be a problem in warmer waters if the
insulation were left out? What is the water temperature below which
the problems that PB&F mentioned are encountered? (Mid East Coast
Australia - off here winter water temp is around 16 degrees C I
think.)

Great, thanks
   So when & where?
   Dave

Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
           I expect we can define the criteria for attendance to be whatever we
want. My inclination is to use the old Rainbow criterion -- if you've
got a belly button, you're in. Of course, if you are coming in a 150
foot yacht, your interests may be such that you wouldn't find the event
interesting.

Patrick

dave seeton wrote:
> Hello
> Never been to a messabout. Is it limited to only Bolger designed? Only Sail?
> Memorial W/E is ok for by me, Motel for us.
> Dave
>





---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  > Anyone who can stand in an empty gull and
>  > scull it is a better man than I.
>
>  I'll second that!

Compare the Light Dory(s) with June Bug, which is the same size and
weight, but in June Bug you can stand on a gunnel without shipping
water.

So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.
Obviously it works at 45 feet. In the article re the modifications
to the AS39 PB mentions there is tremendous latitude in building to
stouter scantlings at that size. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the
great info and speculations.

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
wrote:
>
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Given PBolgers 45' Weston Martyr, with 1/2" bottom plate, and
a 6-
> 9
> > > beam, what do ya'll think the AS 29 and AS39 bottoms would
have to
> > be?
>
> I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans.  The AS 29 plans
would
> provide the panel expansions and other dimensional details.  LP
will
> provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do it in steel.
I
> would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom including the
> rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames and tabs
welded
> to the bottom.  I would be inclined to do decks and much of the
> interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it for more
steel.
>
> Don Schultz
>

On 2/1/07, goadarama <goadarama@...> wrote:
>
>
> So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
>  practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.

My hunch is that it would be more efficient to maker her wider and
deeper, not longer, to achieve the increase in buoyancy that you seek.
  (Though wider means loss of trailerablity, move interior volume, and
she would no longer be an AS29.)

You might consider a Superbrick. <grin>.

FWIW, pasted below are the hydrostatics of a steel AS29

Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead weight is 2.7 Ton.
  After you add bulkheads and interior fittout, probably 3.7 Ton.

But the design waterline, as I see it, allows for only 3.6 Ton.

Project               : Advanced Sharpie AS29
Designer              : Phil Bolger
Created by            : BruceHallman
Filename              : C:\Documents and
Settings\BruceH.TUTOR536\Desktop\FS\FreeShip\AS29.fbm

Design length         :     29.500 [ft]
Length over all       :     29.438 [ft]
Design beam           :      8.000 [ft]
Beam over all         :      8.556 [ft]
Design draft          :      1.250 [ft]
Midship location      :     14.750 [ft]
Water density         :     63.989 [lbs/ft3]
Appendage coefficient :     1.0000
Volume properties:
     Displaced volume                       :        125.27 [ft3]
     Displacement                           :         3.579 [tons]
     Total length of submerged body         :        21.981 [ft]
     Total beam of submerged body           :         8.556 [ft]
     Block coefficient                      :        0.5329
     Prismatic coefficient                  :        0.5873
     Vert. prismatic coefficient            :        0.6262
     Wetted surface area                    :        194.73 [ft2]
     Longitudinal center of buoyancy        :        14.074 [ft]
     Longitudinal center of buoyancy        :        -3.076 [%]
     Vertical center of buoyancy            :         0.784 [ft]
Midship properties:
     Midship section area                   :         9.704 [ft2]
     Midship coefficient                    :        0.9074
Waterplane properties:
     Length on waterline                    :        21.981 [ft]
     Beam on waterline                      :         8.530 [ft]
     Waterplane area                        :        160.03 [ft2]
     Waterplane coefficient                 :        0.8509
     Waterplane center of floatation        :        14.016 [ft]
     Entrance angle                         :       -89.299 [degr.]
     Transverse moment of inertia           :        768.30 [ft4]
     Longitudinal moment of inertia         :        5561.4 [ft4]
Initial stability:
     Transverse metacentric height          :         6.917 [ft]
     Longitudinal metacentric height        :        45.179 [ft]
Lateral plane:
     Lateral area                           :        17.432 [ft2]
     Longitudinal center of effort          :        14.354 [ft]
     Vertical center of effort              :         0.762 [ft]




The following layer properties are calculated for both sides of the ship:
|          Layer          | Area   | Thickness | Weight   |  COG X  |
COG Y  |  COG Z  |
|                         | [ft2]  |           | [tons]   | [ft]    |
[ft]    | [ft]    |
|-------------------------|--------|-----------|----------|---------|---------|-\
--------|
| hull                    | 484.56 |     0.250 |    2.208 |  14.339 |
  0.000 |   2.083 |
| deck                    | 226.57 |     0.125 |    0.516 |  14.157 |
  0.000 |   5.304 |
|-------------------------|--------|-----------|----------|---------|---------|-\
--------|
   Total                     711.13                  2.725    14.304
  0.000     2.693


Sectional areas:

  | Location  | Area     |
  |    [ft]   |   [ft2]  |
  |-----------+----------|
  |     2.000 |    0.000 |
  |     4.000 |    0.408 |
  |     6.000 |    3.112 |
  |     8.000 |    5.564 |
  |    10.000 |    8.066 |
  |    12.000 |    9.189 |
  |    14.000 |   10.182 |
  |    16.000 |    8.899 |
  |    18.000 |    7.625 |
  |    20.000 |    5.311 |
  |    22.000 |    3.251 |
  |    24.000 |    1.199 |
  |    26.000 |    0.000 |
  |-----------+----------|

OK, dreaming about the 'perfect' tender.  June Bug is arguable the
most capable, but an ugly duckling.  The Light Dory is beautiful, but
too tiddly to climb in and out from afloat.  Both are nice rowing
boats.

The wide and buoyant 12 foot Light Peapod design 390 seems to have it
all.  Stability to spare, plus really good looks, and a super 'row
boat' streamline shape.  Fast for its length due to its ample bustle.
I am not really scared of the cold molding, considering that the hull
is so small, making it small work.

Of the three, Light Peapod 390 would be the lightest weight by far, a
big plus when handing a tender.

http://hallman.org/bolger/390/LightPeapod390.jpg
http://hallman.org/bolger/390/LPP.fbm

Hi Sam,

> Yeah, but aren't they a sweet boat to row, and to look
> at?  I always used to say mine was the prettiest boat
> in the county, and she still would be, if I hadn't
> built her out of luan.

Amen.  Mine's the prettiest boat at the lake whenever she's there.  A
joy to row, and even better with two of us.

Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm

Good idea.  I actually have a boat trailer with no boat on it that I could
modify, and would have to modify for any curvy hull I would build next.  I had
considered detaching the trailer from the hitch and pulling it with boat across
the beach but the necessary tongue weight for driving would require a tongue
extension to make it reasonable for hand carting, resulting in a big long heavy
thing to maneuver across the sand.  Thanks for the idea.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: adventures_in_astrophotography
   To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:14 AM
   Subject: [bolger] Re: Light Dory Type V


   Hi Wesley,

   ...snip...
   Personally, I'm leaning toward a cart with 2 wheel barrow size
   pneumatic wheels (to not sink in the sand, hopefully) which attaches
   to the gunnels while the boat is still on the rack and a process I
   envision that would never require lifting more than half the weight
   of the boat.
   ...snip...

   I built a hand cart that looks like a small wooden trailer for my
   Long Light Dory. It's a bit heavy, since it has a 4x4 backbone, but
   it beats trailer launching for this sort of "in between" size boat.
   I carry the boat and cart to the lake on 2x6 crosswise bunks bolted
   to the deck of a 16' utility trailer, then roll the boat off using
   cheap ramps and right into the water. This also allows me to launch
   off the small beach area away from the impatient crowd in their huge
   plastic noisemakers. If you have other use for a utility trailer
   (and who doesn't) and a place to park it, I recommend looking into
   this approach. Besides, you can carry different boats you might
   build later with the same trailer.

   Jon Kolb
   www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So we're talking about memorial day week-end? in Beauford NC? Or somewhere in
SC. I live on Lake Hartwell in  western SC. It has 986 miles of shoreline, not
sure of wind conditions as I don't sail. Big water around the Dam. Should I look
into aroud here or does some one have another idea?
   We need some input from list members if this is going to happen.
   Dave

Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
           Having been to the MIDWEST messabout several times, I think do it
perfectly.
Anyone can come with any boat or no boat at all.
No particular schedule except for maybe a group meal.
Lots of looking, talking, and playing in boats.

Being from South Georgia, and having a larger boat to trailer,
I'd favor SC over NC.

I love cruising tidal creeks and rivers,
and believe lakes can be pretty bland,
but for a messabout, you can't beat a
campground on protected wide water.
That way sailors, rowers, paddlers, and
motorboaters, all get to play. Most of the
good stuff at a messabout happens on the
shore anyway.

Let's not drop this thread. Let's pick location central to
those who have expressed interest that has the features
for a boat gathering. When is memorial day?
I, for one, am excited about the possibilities so far.
Rav

----- Original Message -----
From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN MESSAGBOUT?

> Hello
> Never been to a messabout. Is it limited to only Bolger designed? Only
> Sail?
> Memorial W/E is ok for by me, Motel for us.
> Dave
>
> Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
> It seems that Beaufort NC has resonated most with potential
> SouthEast
> messabouters. There are a lot of motels in Morehead City, Beaufort,
> Atlantic Beach, and thereabouts, as well as private campgrounds. Also
> primitive camping in the Cape Lookout National Seashore (Shackleford
> Banks a couple or four miles sail from Beaufort, or South Core Banks, a
> two to five mile sail from points within 30 minutes of Beaufort). Are
> folks more interested in motels or camping? And, more interested in
> primitive or commercial camping?
>
> Also, more interested in sailing along the Beaufort waterfront, within
> the narrow channels in the sound inside the banks, on the Neuse River (a
> bit north of Beaufort)?
>
> I was in Beaufort last July 4th for the tall ships -- it was scary --
> too many motor boats moving too fast. I got swamped by big weird waves
> around the turning mark between Beaufort and Morehead City. I imagine
> most July 4th weekends are not so crazy, but still I'd prefer to avoid
> that particular weekend. Memorial day weekend would give people the
> opportunity to take advantage of a 3-day weekend, the water is
> comfortable, there is still a chance of wind (not quite into the summer
> doldrums). Would that be a good weekend for everyone?
>
> Patrick
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For what its worth I built a 16' wooden trailer with two fixed wheel barrow
tires to transport 16' wooden boat to launch site. In SC you don't have to lic.
a trailer. And of course the launch site is only 2 1/2 miles from the house.
   Dave

adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:
           Hi Wesley,

...snip...
Personally, I'm leaning toward a cart with 2 wheel barrow size
pneumatic wheels (to not sink in the sand, hopefully) which attaches
to the gunnels while the boat is still on the rack and a process I
envision that would never require lifting more than half the weight
of the boat.
...snip...

I built a hand cart that looks like a small wooden trailer for my
Long Light Dory. It's a bit heavy, since it has a 4x4 backbone, but
it beats trailer launching for this sort of "in between" size boat.
I carry the boat and cart to the lake on 2x6 crosswise bunks bolted
to the deck of a 16' utility trailer, then roll the boat off using
cheap ramps and right into the water. This also allows me to launch
off the small beach area away from the impatient crowd in their huge
plastic noisemakers. If you have other use for a utility trailer
(and who doesn't) and a place to park it, I recommend looking into
this approach. Besides, you can carry different boats you might
build later with the same trailer.

Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm






---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  Amen.  Mine's the prettiest boat at the lake whenever she's there.  A
>  joy to row, and even better with two of us.

Certainly all true, (and this is now splitting hairs), but I think I
notice that during Phil Bolger's career that he has tended towards
giving increased buoyancy in the bow and stern of rowboats.  I think
his hypothesis is that there is trade off of 'fine entry lines' versus
a gain from 'effective waterline length' which is slightly more
desireable in rowboats.  I bet that the 'perfect' rowboat in PCB's
mind might have more fullness in the ends than a Light Dory V.

Though, I cannot argue that those long sweeping lines are gorgeous,
and might be spoiled if made more full in the ends.

Hi All

I hope the group doesn't impose the same penalties for
apostasy that the muslims would like to,but,although I
like the idea of a steel Bolger box,there are some
alternatives.
1 Waterwitch
This is the Maurice Griffith's 'Eventide' big sister -
30' or 35' long.Plans are available for a steel
version and second hand examples come up
occasionally.If you don't like leeboards the mark1 is
the one to look for.The mark2 only draws 2ft but that
has leeboards.There is some antagonism between the
Eventide owners association and the Eventide owners
group.EOG is much more active but the EOA has the
plans for the steel versions - cost$200-250
2.Wylo 2
32ft or 35ft gaff orjunk rig.draft about 3ft3in.Wooden
upperworks on the 32ft which might be the way to keep
the weight down on a steel bolger box.Several
circumnavigations to it's credit
cheers
Andy Airey

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

I noted the concern about insulation in the article
but wonder if it was misplaced.Always remember that WM
was designed basically as a narrow canal boat with
enough sailing capability to get it across the North
Sea or English Channel to explore the European rivers
and canals - its why I was attracted to it until I
discovered Dutch sailing barges.There are literally
thousands of steel narrowboats on the English canal
system - more now than when the canals were a truly
commercial highway a hundred years or more ago - and a
great many are lived on all year round.Two of my
friends lived on similar boats for years.Bit of
fibreglass,wood panelling and a good pot stove.Even
now the Chinese have pushed steel prices up I reckon
that you could get the hull built commercially in the
UK for around the £10k mark.There must be 5
boatbuilders within a 15 mile radius of Worksop and
thats just off the top of my head without
researching.I'd be more worried about sailing ability,
getting round the Recreational Craft Directive,and
getting some insurance on it,which is a point that
I've not seen discussed on this forum - how are PCB's
designs regarded by the insurance industry.Too many
people seem to be wanting you to have 3rd party
insurance these days.I would think that WM with a
breeze behind it would go straight through a plastic
noddy boat without even slowing down much
cheers
Andy Airey
Ps Must do some research on sailing 'Cuckoos'- our
local canal craft(72ft long)and same beam as WM,which
occasionally carried sils on the Trent

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

I'm curious if anyone has tried both methods of hanking a sail to their
mast and specifically, whether there's any difference in the
effort required to hoist the sail between the two methods ?

Thanks..

Doc Musekamp
Sapphire, WDJ #1

I can speak from experience.  Un-insulated metal interior surfaces of the
skin will sweat when they have water on one side that is cooler than the dew
point of the humid air on the other.  This is not a serious problem in the
engine room of a merchant ship, but could be troublesome on a small boat
where the living spaces extend below the water line.  Another reason to
consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it greatly reduces the
heating/cooling load.

V/R
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
ANDREW AIREY
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:37 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Steel ASharpie: speculation on plate thicknesses?


I noted the concern about insulation in the article
but wonder if it was misplaced.

Before PCB, the expert on sharpies was Howard I Chapelle.

The original working sharpies were cheap, shallow draft, were used for
tonging,and had to carry huge loads. Chapelle says they generally had between 3
1/2" and 4" of flare for each foot of depth. Since many sharpies had nearly
vertical stems, there was often less flare forward and more aft.  Chapelle
states that less flare was used for speed and more for seaworthiness.

A basic problem with sharpies is that water flows at one speed under the bottom
and at a different speed along the side.  The difference in speed creates a
pressure differential and water tries to move over the chine to equalize the
pressure. This movement takes the form of edies and these create drag, slowing
the boat.  One effort to reduce edies is to match the curve of the side to the
curve of the bottom, thus reducing the difference in speedof thewater on the
bottom and side, the pressure differential, and the edies.  Another approach is
the 'presto' sharpie with rounded chines.  These provide a smoother course for
the equalization of pressure and, in theory, reduce drag.  Jim Michalak has
several designs in which he cuts the corner off the chine and replaces it with a
plywood panel. I have one and it seems to sail fine, but without a similiar
sized sharpie for comparison, I can't state that it works better (or worse) than
a more normal sharpie.

If I were building PCB's Presto, I'd build the bottom and sides of plywood and
strip plank the chines, fiberglassing the whole thing.  I'm to old to tackle a
boat building project this size, but the 'Presto Sharpie' sure is a pretty boat.

John T
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Will Parkes
   To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:10 PM
   Subject: [bolger] Presto Cruiser


   Did PCB complete plans for the Presto Cruiser design in BWAOM? If so,
   does anyone know if it is all strip planked or is any ply used in the
   construction?

   Over the weekend, in the presence of a naval architect, I was
   discussing sharpies with some fellow Bolger fans. We compared a number
   of hard chine sharpie designd, like Skillygallee, with more round edged
   designs like Karl Stambaugh's Trailer Sailer 24. Stambaugh uses ply on
   the sides and bottoms and strip planking on the corners. Some opined
   that the additional work involved in the strip planking wasn't worth
   what was thought to be a small gain in performance.

   We also compared the square sided sharpies (AS-29 etc) with those with
   more flair from Howard Chappelle as well as PCB. The flair averaged
   about 23 degrees from the vertical amidships. Does anyone have a view
   about the value of sharpie flair?







------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.18/662 - Release Date: 1/31/2007


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I used to think that the variations of the Light Dory were the prettiest boats
that could be made from 4 sheets of plywood. At the risk of blasphemy, I think
Ian Outred's Elf is at least its equal and may actually be prettier....

JohnT
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bruce Hallman
   To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:46 PM
   Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Dory Type V


   > Amen. Mine's the prettiest boat at the lake whenever she's there. A
   > joy to row, and even better with two of us.

   Certainly all true, (and this is now splitting hairs), but I think I
   notice that during Phil Bolger's career that he has tended towards
   giving increased buoyancy in the bow and stern of rowboats. I think
   his hypothesis is that there is trade off of 'fine entry lines' versus
   a gain from 'effective waterline length' which is slightly more
   desireable in rowboats. I bet that the 'perfect' rowboat in PCB's
   mind might have more fullness in the ends than a Light Dory V.

   Though, I cannot argue that those long sweeping lines are gorgeous,
   and might be spoiled if made more full in the ends.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.18/662 - Release Date: 1/31/2007


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tugaloo State Park on Lake Hartwell SC/GA?
I could do that.
What about
Santee State Park in East SC?

Do either of these have shorline campsites with "beach" like areas for all
the people and boats to mill around
on?

Rav
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN MESSAGBOUT?


> So we're talking about memorial day week-end? in Beauford NC? Or somewhere
> in SC. I live on Lake Hartwell in  western SC. It has 986 miles of
> shoreline, not sure of wind conditions as I don't sail. Big water around
> the Dam. Should I look into aroud here or does some one have another idea?
>  We need some input from list members if this is going to happen.
>  Dave
>
> Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
>          Having been to the MIDWEST messabout several times, I think do it
> perfectly.
> Anyone can come with any boat or no boat at all.
> No particular schedule except for maybe a group meal.
> Lots of looking, talking, and playing in boats.
>
> Being from South Georgia, and having a larger boat to trailer,
> I'd favor SC over NC.
>
> I love cruising tidal creeks and rivers,
> and believe lakes can be pretty bland,
> but for a messabout, you can't beat a
> campground on protected wide water.
> That way sailors, rowers, paddlers, and
> motorboaters, all get to play. Most of the
> good stuff at a messabout happens on the
> shore anyway.
>
> Let's not drop this thread. Let's pick location central to
> those who have expressed interest that has the features
> for a boat gathering. When is memorial day?
> I, for one, am excited about the possibilities so far.
> Rav
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN MESSAGBOUT?
>
>> Hello
>> Never been to a messabout. Is it limited to only Bolger designed? Only
>> Sail?
>> Memorial W/E is ok for by me, Motel for us.
>> Dave
>>
>> Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
>> It seems that Beaufort NC has resonated most with potential
>> SouthEast
>> messabouters. There are a lot of motels in Morehead City, Beaufort,
>> Atlantic Beach, and thereabouts, as well as private campgrounds. Also
>> primitive camping in the Cape Lookout National Seashore (Shackleford
>> Banks a couple or four miles sail from Beaufort, or South Core Banks, a
>> two to five mile sail from points within 30 minutes of Beaufort). Are
>> folks more interested in motels or camping? And, more interested in
>> primitive or commercial camping?
>>
>> Also, more interested in sailing along the Beaufort waterfront, within
>> the narrow channels in the sound inside the banks, on the Neuse River (a
>> bit north of Beaufort)?
>>
>> I was in Beaufort last July 4th for the tall ships -- it was scary --
>> too many motor boats moving too fast. I got swamped by big weird waves
>> around the turning mark between Beaufort and Morehead City. I imagine
>> most July 4th weekends are not so crazy, but still I'd prefer to avoid
>> that particular weekend. Memorial day weekend would give people the
>> opportunity to take advantage of a 3-day weekend, the water is
>> comfortable, there is still a chance of wind (not quite into the summer
>> doldrums). Would that be a good weekend for everyone?
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> It's here! Your new message!
>> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>> horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>> (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!!  Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

I will check out Tugaloo in the next week or so also SC state parp, right across
the lake in SC, But if sailing is desired both of these parks are above (up
river) from a bridge.
   Dave

Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
           Tugaloo State Park on Lake Hartwell SC/GA?
I could do that.
What about
Santee State Park in East SC?

Do either of these have shorline campsites with "beach" like areas for all
the people and boats to mill around
on?

Rav
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN MESSAGBOUT?

> So we're talking about memorial day week-end? in Beauford NC? Or somewhere
> in SC. I live on Lake Hartwell in western SC. It has 986 miles of
> shoreline, not sure of wind conditions as I don't sail. Big water around
> the Dam. Should I look into aroud here or does some one have another idea?
> We need some input from list members if this is going to happen.
> Dave
>
> Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
> Having been to the MIDWEST messabout several times, I think do it
> perfectly.
> Anyone can come with any boat or no boat at all.
> No particular schedule except for maybe a group meal.
> Lots of looking, talking, and playing in boats.
>
> Being from South Georgia, and having a larger boat to trailer,
> I'd favor SC over NC.
>
> I love cruising tidal creeks and rivers,
> and believe lakes can be pretty bland,
> but for a messabout, you can't beat a
> campground on protected wide water.
> That way sailors, rowers, paddlers, and
> motorboaters, all get to play. Most of the
> good stuff at a messabout happens on the
> shore anyway.
>
> Let's not drop this thread. Let's pick location central to
> those who have expressed interest that has the features
> for a boat gathering. When is memorial day?
> I, for one, am excited about the possibilities so far.
> Rav
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN MESSAGBOUT?
>
>> Hello
>> Never been to a messabout. Is it limited to only Bolger designed? Only
>> Sail?
>> Memorial W/E is ok for by me, Motel for us.
>> Dave
>>
>> Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
>> It seems that Beaufort NC has resonated most with potential
>> SouthEast
>> messabouters. There are a lot of motels in Morehead City, Beaufort,
>> Atlantic Beach, and thereabouts, as well as private campgrounds. Also
>> primitive camping in the Cape Lookout National Seashore (Shackleford
>> Banks a couple or four miles sail from Beaufort, or South Core Banks, a
>> two to five mile sail from points within 30 minutes of Beaufort). Are
>> folks more interested in motels or camping? And, more interested in
>> primitive or commercial camping?
>>
>> Also, more interested in sailing along the Beaufort waterfront, within
>> the narrow channels in the sound inside the banks, on the Neuse River (a
>> bit north of Beaufort)?
>>
>> I was in Beaufort last July 4th for the tall ships -- it was scary --
>> too many motor boats moving too fast. I got swamped by big weird waves
>> around the turning mark between Beaufort and Morehead City. I imagine
>> most July 4th weekends are not so crazy, but still I'd prefer to avoid
>> that particular weekend. Memorial day weekend would give people the
>> opportunity to take advantage of a 3-day weekend, the water is
>> comfortable, there is still a chance of wind (not quite into the summer
>> doldrums). Would that be a good weekend for everyone?
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> It's here! Your new message!
>> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>> horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>> (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok 1/4  inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft
    3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65  Lbs per Sq Ft
    7 Ga      steel sheet is 7.5   Lbs per Sq Ft
    8 Ga .164 steel sheet is 6.875 Lbs per Sq Ft

I have seen 65 x 25 x 5 foot draft powerbarges built
out of 3/16 steel plate the only place they were
useing heaver was in the bow where you were likely to
bump the beach and in the prop tunnles and they were
1/4.

I can see the 1/4 inch on the hull bottom but not for
the hull sides. With the price of a good wire feeder
under 2,ooo dollars US. along with some of the new
welding wire you could have a nice hull in short
order.

If you make paper patterns of your hull sheeting the
steel supplyer will cut the sheeting at a fair cost.
And then is they are setup with a CNC cutting system
the computer can nest everything so that is little
wast.

Krissie

>
> Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead
> weight is 2.7 Ton.
>  After you add bulkheads and interior fittout,
> probably 3.7 Ton.
>




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There is also one other MAJOR thing insulating the
hull does as well...it helps to stop the drumming of
the hull and that can make for a sleepless night.

Sound does travle through steel very well below
waterline.

Kristine

> I can speak from experience.  Un-insulated metal
> interior surfaces of the
> skin will sweat when they have water on one side
> that is cooler than the dew
> point of the humid air on the other.  This is not a
> serious problem in the
> engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
> troublesome on a small boat
> where the living spaces extend below the water line.
>  Another reason to
> consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
> greatly reduces the
> heating/cooling load.
>
> V/R
> Chris




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Hey Don in all the years I've been welding I have yet
to see a rod or wire for welding wood to steel....
Let's face it when you add wood decks and cabins to a
steel boat you have the best of both world....Rot and
Rust.

Dave Gerr does a good job of telling you how to work
out your scantling for a steel boat in The Nature of
Boats. I have also see a couple of other books that
just talk about steel boat building.

Blessings Krissie
>
> I would buy AS 29 plans and Lions Paw plans.  The AS
> 29 plans would
> provide the panel expansions and other dimensional
> details.  LP will
> provide the scantlings and tell you about how to do
> it in steel.  I
> would guess a tank builder could prefab the bottom
> including the
> rocker, and the sides would bend around temp' frames
> and tabs welded
> to the bottom.  I would be inclined to do decks and
> much of the
> interior in wood, but could also be talked out of it
> for more steel.
>
> Don Schultz
>
>




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I think you covered the steel pritty well as far as welding in
thinner steel proper sized and type of rod gives a stronger weld and
less disrortion. MIG can have poor penatration and Inershield gets
slag when starting and stopping that can cause pinholes. CNC is great
but you need the specs on disc with a format that the CNC can use. It
can be big bucks if they have to set up the cutting specs. They are
more versatal now and shops can give help on what they need. Atkins
has a 28' sternwheeler that is 8 and 10 gage steel

Jon

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Ok 1/4  inch steel plate is 10.20 Lbs per Sq Ft
>    3/16 inch steel plate is 7.65  Lbs per Sq Ft
>    7 Ga      steel sheet is 7.5   Lbs per Sq Ft
>    8 Ga .164 steel sheet is 6.875 Lbs per Sq Ft
>
> I have seen 65 x 25 x 5 foot draft powerbarges built
> out of 3/16 steel plate the only place they were
> useing heaver was in the bow where you were likely to
> bump the beach and in the prop tunnles and they were
> 1/4.
>
> I can see the 1/4 inch on the hull bottom but not for
> the hull sides. With the price of a good wire feeder
> under 2,ooo dollars US. along with some of the new
> welding wire you could have a nice hull in short
> order.
>
> If you make paper patterns of your hull sheeting the
> steel supplyer will cut the sheeting at a fair cost.
> And then is they are setup with a CNC cutting system
> the computer can nest everything so that is little
> wast.
>
> Krissie
>
> >
> > Assuming 1/4" hull and 1/8" topsides the shell dead
> > weight is 2.7 Ton.
> >  After you add bulkheads and interior fittout,
> > probably 3.7 Ton.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
>

By  sand blasting,painting and then having the hull spray foamed
there is no air circulation agenst the steel and no condensation
eliminating the things that cause rust to form. Homebuilder sheet
foam will not seel the air flow out well enough. For a lot of good
info on steel boat building and scantling use check out:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/

Jon


> > I can speak from experience.  Un-insulated metal
> > interior surfaces of the
> > skin will sweat when they have water on one side
> > that is cooler than the dew
> > point of the humid air on the other.  This is not a
> > serious problem in the
> > engine room of a merchant ship, but could be
> > troublesome on a small boat
> > where the living spaces extend below the water line.
> >  Another reason to
> > consider insulating the skin of the hull is that it
> > greatly reduces the
> > heating/cooling load.
> >
> > V/R
> > Chris
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>

--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
>
> So I take it the sharpie must be larger than a AS29 to really be
> practical in steel. Not necessarily AS39 big but maybe a AS34 or so.


I wouldn't assume that it is only for bigger boats.  PCB did that
single hand world cruiser, Colonel something that is steel.  Not much
bigger than a Micro.

How about one of the rivers off Pamlico Sound?  Lots
of water to explore for the big/fast boat guys, plenty
of nearby open water for shoal-draft sailing, but
protected for the little boat guys.  I don't know
about shore access, etc. around New Bern or
Washington, N.C., but sombody on this group might.
--- dave seeton <daveseeton@...> wrote:

> I will check out Tugaloo in the next week or so also
> SC state parp, right across the lake in SC, But if
> sailing is desired both of these parks are above (up
> river) from a bridge.
>   Dave
>
> Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
>           Tugaloo State Park on Lake Hartwell SC/GA?
> I could do that.
> What about
> Santee State Park in East SC?
>
> Do either of these have shorline campsites with
> "beach" like areas for all
> the people and boats to mill around
> on?
>
> Rav
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN
> MESSAGBOUT?
>
> > So we're talking about memorial day week-end? in
> Beauford NC? Or somewhere
> > in SC. I live on Lake Hartwell in western SC. It
> has 986 miles of
> > shoreline, not sure of wind conditions as I don't
> sail. Big water around
> > the Dam. Should I look into aroud here or does
> some one have another idea?
> > We need some input from list members if this is
> going to happen.
> > Dave
> >
> > Rhett Davis <ravenous@...> wrote:
> > Having been to the MIDWEST messabout several
> times, I think do it
> > perfectly.
> > Anyone can come with any boat or no boat at all.
> > No particular schedule except for maybe a group
> meal.
> > Lots of looking, talking, and playing in boats.
> >
> > Being from South Georgia, and having a larger boat
> to trailer,
> > I'd favor SC over NC.
> >
> > I love cruising tidal creeks and rivers,
> > and believe lakes can be pretty bland,
> > but for a messabout, you can't beat a
> > campground on protected wide water.
> > That way sailors, rowers, paddlers, and
> > motorboaters, all get to play. Most of the
> > good stuff at a messabout happens on the
> > shore anyway.
> >
> > Let's not drop this thread. Let's pick location
> central to
> > those who have expressed interest that has the
> features
> > for a boat gathering. When is memorial day?
> > I, for one, am excited about the possibilities so
> far.
> > Rav
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dave seeton" <daveseeton@...>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: HOW ABOUT A SOUTHEASTERN
> MESSAGBOUT?
> >
> >> Hello
> >> Never been to a messabout. Is it limited to only
> Bolger designed? Only
> >> Sail?
> >> Memorial W/E is ok for by me, Motel for us.
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
> >> It seems that Beaufort NC has resonated most with
> potential
> >> SouthEast
> >> messabouters. There are a lot of motels in
> Morehead City, Beaufort,
> >> Atlantic Beach, and thereabouts, as well as
> private campgrounds. Also
> >> primitive camping in the Cape Lookout National
> Seashore (Shackleford
> >> Banks a couple or four miles sail from Beaufort,
> or South Core Banks, a
> >> two to five mile sail from points within 30
> minutes of Beaufort). Are
> >> folks more interested in motels or camping? And,
> more interested in
> >> primitive or commercial camping?
> >>
> >> Also, more interested in sailing along the
> Beaufort waterfront, within
> >> the narrow channels in the sound inside the
> banks, on the Neuse River (a
> >> bit north of Beaufort)?
> >>
> >> I was in Beaufort last July 4th for the tall
> ships -- it was scary --
> >> too many motor boats moving too fast. I got
> swamped by big weird waves
> >> around the turning mark between Beaufort and
> Morehead City. I imagine
> >> most July 4th weekends are not so crazy, but
> still I'd prefer to avoid
> >> that particular weekend. Memorial day weekend
> would give people the
> >> opportunity to take advantage of a 3-day weekend,
> the water is
> >> comfortable, there is still a chance of wind (not
> quite into the summer
> >> doldrums). Would that be a good weekend for
> everyone?
> >>
> >> Patrick
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> It's here! Your new message!
> >> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo!
> Toolbar.
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bolger rules!!!
> >> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead
> >> horses
> >> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> >> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts, and snip away
> >> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> >> (978) 282-1349
> >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> - Open discussion:
> bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a PS3 game guru.
> > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
> previews at Yahoo!
> > Games.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
> bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
=== message truncated ===




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