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#43 From: Mike Tintner <andarot@...>
Date: Thu Nov 3, 2005 12:29 pm
Subject: Death of criticism
andarot
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Vice-Chancellor's Lecture 2005

Monday 7 November Professor Terry Eagleton, University
of Manchester The death of criticism

6pm, room P/X001, Physics

Literary criticism has traditionally performed two
closely interrelated tasks: exploring qualities of
language, and commenting on the moral and political
environment in which such acts of language are
embedded. Today, both of these vital tasks are under
threat, as habits of close textual analysis on the one
hand, and the role of the public intellectual on the
other, no longer have the importance they were once
granted.

Entry by free ticket - available from the
Communications Office on pressoffice@...





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#44 From: William Benzon <bbenzon@...>
Date: Thu Nov 3, 2005 1:29 pm
Subject: Sleep & the brain
bbenzon
Send Email Send Email
 
Nature has a special section of articles on sleep. They are free to the
public. Find them here:

http://www.nature.com/nature/supplements/insights/sleep/index.html

And here's a list of the articles:

Supplements

Insight: Sleep
Vol. 437, No. 7063 pp1207-1396


In this supplement
Introduction
Articles
Insight Sponsor: National Institutes of Health
| Previous supplement
Top of page
Introduction

Sleep
John Spiro
doi:10.1038/4371253a


Top of page
Articles

Sleep is of the brain, by the brain and for the brain
J. Allan Hobson
doi:10.1038/nature04283


Hypothalamic regulation of sleep and circadian rhythms
Clifford B. Saper, Thomas E. Scammell and Jun Lu
doi:10.1038/nature04284


Clues to the functions of mammalian sleep-
Jerome M. Siegel
doi:10.1038/nature04285


Sleep-dependent memory consolidation-
Robert Stickgold
doi:10.1038/nature04286


Insights from studying human sleep disorders
Mark W. Mahowald and Carlos H. Schenck
doi:10.1038/nature04287


What are the memory sources of dreaming?
Tore A. Nielsen and Philippe Stenstrom
doi:10.1038/nature04288

#45 From: "syntiment" <syntiment@...>
Date: Sun Nov 6, 2005 9:47 pm
Subject: NYT Features Literary Darwinism
syntiment
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I was rudely awakened this morning by my girlfriend: she leapt on top
of me, in bed, exclaiming excitedly in one, unbroken exhalation,
"There's an article in the Times Magazine about Literary Darwinists
with Joseph Carroll and Brian Boyd and it talks about how it will grow
because it's so cool!"

So, check it out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magazine/06darwin.html?pagewanted=1

#46 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Sun Nov 6, 2005 11:43 pm
Subject: boston globe review of literary animal
clelburn1949
Send Email Send Email
 
The Boston Globe has a short review of the forthcoming collection The Literary Animal, edited by Gottschall and Wilson.  The collection is supposed to be out in a few weeks and can be pre-ordered on Amazon.
 
 
            Fred Crews has a preface to the volume, but is quoted by the Globe reporter, from an email, saying,
"'My hunch is that the vein of evolutionary ore to be mined in literary study will prove to be rather thin.'"
 
            I think this comment reveals that Crews does not understand the nature of the Darwinian paradigm shift.  He is thinking of Darwinian literary study as a limited frame, a specialist angle with a particular range of concerns and a distinctive, idiosyncratic set of concepts and terms.
 
            The claim implicit in the essays in this book is that an evolutionary understanding of human nature is the necessary basis for any understanding of human behavior.  No manifestation of human behavior operates outside the range of an evolutionary understanding of human nature.  Literature is a manifestation of human behavior.  No literature operates outside the range of an evolutionary understanding of human nature.
 
            If this simple syllogism is right, an evolutionary understanding would be the permanent, fundamental framework for all literary study.  It would exclude other competing frameworks (or "meta-narratives," in postmodern jargon); it would contain and give direction to all more detailed and particular forms of literary study; and it would be the central medium through which those more particular forms can be integrated with one another and with the whole body of scientific knowledge.
boston.com News your connection to The Boston Globe
CRITICAL FACULTIES

Survivlaist lit

Does Darwin have anything to say about Beowulf and Madame Bovary?

DARWINIAN LITERARY CRITICISM: such an evocative phrase! But what does it mean? Could it refer to the eviscerations of authors that take place regularly in the back pages of The New Republic-critics culling weak novelists from the herd? Or perhaps it's an allusion to the scramble for jobs at the annual meeting of the Modern Language Association, in which only the intellectually fit (or fashionable) survive.

In fact, the proponents of Darwinian literary criticism hail it as the Next Big Thing in literary studies. For a decade or more, they've argued that evolutionary psychology can be a useful tool in illuminating works of fiction, seeing it as a more rational, scientific replacement for such other lit-crit modes as Marxism, poststructuralism, and psychoanalysis. Exit the self-subverting sign; enter the selfish gene.

And now the movement has a manifesto: ''The Literary Animal: Evolution and the Nature of Narrative'' (Northwestern), edited by Daniel Sloan Wilson, a biologist and anthropologist at Binghamton University, and Jonathan Gottschall, until recently an adjunct instructor of English at St. Lawrence University in New York. Its dozen essays explore how art might have arisen in our evolutionary past and demonstrate how to deploy Darwinian ideas when reading specific texts.

Gottschall sought Wilson out as a co-adviser on his doctoral thesis after the Binghamton English department blanched at his belief that Darwin might be a useful prism through which to view Homer's bloody ''Iliad.'' Once Gottschall discovered evolutionary theory in grad school, he could never go back. Suddenly, he writes, he ''experienced the 'Iliad' as a drama of naked apes-strutting, preening, fighting, tattooing their chests, and bellowing their power.''

But genetic explanations of behavior face resistance from humanities scholars, as the book's publishing history may attest. With contributors like uber-sociobiologist E.O. Wilson and literary critic Frederick Crews (each of whom writes a forward to the book), the novelist Ian McEwan (who, in a previously published lecture, speaks of the universality of certain emotions, which he attributes to natural selection), and the Nabokov biographer Brian Boyd (who summarizes theories about the origins of art), the editors were sure university presses would be clamoring for the book. But at least 15 turned it down.

At each press, ''The science editor would usually give it a fair shake,'' Gottschall says. ''Then they would say, 'Let me run it by the literary guy.' That's when it would get the ax.''

Anti-gene biases aside, one problem with the new approach is the chasm between macro theories and micro readings, which few scholars seem able to bridge adroitly. The theories of the origins of art summarized by the biographer Boyd, who teaches at the University of Auckland, in New Zealand, are certainly meaty and serious. Steven Pinker's ''cheesecake for the mind'' theory, for instance, proposes that art is a byproduct of intelligence and abilities that evolved for utilitarian reasons. But the readings often get stuck at the level of: Madame Bovary cheated because she lusted for an alpha male.

That was one contention in the recent ''Madame Bovary's Ovaries: A Darwinian Look at Literature,'' by David P. Barash, a psychologist at the University of Washington, and his daughter Nanelle R. Barash. In the new book, Robin Fox, a professor of social theory at Rutgers, points to-but doesn't do much with-examples of male bonding in ''Gilgamesh,'' ''Beowulf,'' and the ''Iliad,'' arguing bonding evolved to help during hunts. End of insight.

Other contributors say literary Darwinism should inspire critics to approach books more like scientists. Gottschall himself had students ''code'' the character traits of heroes and heroines of 1,440 folk tales. Unsurprisingly, he found that male protagonists were more active and aggressive than heroines, but points out that the pattern extends across cultures. And a trio of contributors, Daniel J. Kruger, Maryanne Fisher, and Ian Jobling, uses the survey method to show that female readers would rather marry the ''proper heroes'' in Romantic-era novels-but have a quickie with the ''dark heroes.'' In art as in life, ''dads'' and ''cads'' pursue alternative mating strategies, each effective in its own way.

Frederick Crews once mocked Darwinian criticism, among other trendy approaches, in his satire ''Postmodern Pooh,'' but here he praises the authors ''because they always write as open-minded empiricists.'' Still, in an e-mail he confessed, ''My hunch is that the vein of evolutionary ore to be mined in literary study will prove to be rather thin.''

Other signs of this field's future are mixed, too. Cambridge University Press has tentatively agreed to publish Gottschall's dissertation, on the ''Iliad,'' but his adjunct position at St. Lawrence has ended, and he's yet to find a new job. The market is tough for everyone, but by turning himself into ''half an evolutionary theorist, half a classicist,'' he worries he's ahead of his time. ''I've made a sort of freak of myself.''

Christopher Shea's Critical Faculties column appears in Ideas biweekly. E-mail critical.faculties@....

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#47 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 2:42 pm
Subject: science and literature, from Harold Fromm
clelburn1949
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            The president of the MLA wrote a column in PMLA about the moribund state of academic humanism, and Harold Fromm wrote a letter in reply, on taking science seriously.  It's a good letter.  PMLA said they will print the letter in the January forum.  I'll attach a copy.

#48 From: "eugenehalton" <Eugene.W.Halton.2@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: boston globe review of literary animal
eugenehalton
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Joseph Carroll,

	 Thank you for posting this info on The Literary Animal and
review. If I understand your comments correctly, then I have to take
issue and agree with Crews's email. You speak of an evolutionary
outlook as "the necessary basis for any understanding of human
behavior," "the permanent, fundamental framework for all literary
study," "it would exclude other competing frameworks," "it would
contain…," "it would be the central medium…"

	 This strikes me as philosophy with a hammer.  I have nothing
against a hammer. But if you really want to build something, it makes
better sense to also have available nails, saws, pliers,
screwdrivers, all the possible tools you might need. You also should
have a framework in mind, but you probably would want to allow for
changes and development of it. That is, you might want to allow that
your framework could evolve. That requires fallibilism instead of
fundamentalism ("the permanent, fundamental framework"). You might
even want to include your living mind, capable of spontaneous
intelligence in the living moment, not solely reducible to the rules
which gave birth to it.

	 Your hammer seems to me a one-size fits-all approach, at
least based on your remarks in your post. Claude Levi-Strauss claimed
a similar universal framework that proved far too narrow. You seem to
me to want Darwin to provide a similar single explanatory mechanism:
the biggest matreshka doll into which all that is human fits, if not
melts away. Yet exploring evolutionary themes in literary contexts
need not be a final solution.

Gene Halton


--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@u...>
wrote:
>
> The Boston Globe has a short review of the forthcoming collection
The Literary Animal, edited by Gottschall and Wilson.  The collection
is supposed to be out in a few weeks and can be pre-ordered on Amazon.
>
>
>             Fred Crews has a preface to the volume, but is quoted
by the Globe reporter, from an email, saying,
> "'My hunch is that the vein of evolutionary ore to be mined in
literary study will prove to be rather thin.'"
>
>             I think this comment reveals that Crews does not
understand the nature of the Darwinian paradigm shift.  He is
thinking of Darwinian literary study as a limited frame, a specialist
angle with a particular range of concerns and a distinctive,
idiosyncratic set of concepts and terms.
>
>             The claim implicit in the essays in this book is that
an evolutionary understanding of human nature is the necessary basis
for any understanding of human behavior.  No manifestation of human
behavior operates outside the range of an evolutionary understanding
of human nature.  Literature is a manifestation of human behavior.
No literature operates outside the range of an evolutionary
understanding of human nature.
>
>             If this simple syllogism is right, an evolutionary
understanding would be the permanent, fundamental framework for all
literary study.  It would exclude other competing frameworks
(or "meta-narratives," in postmodern jargon); it would contain and
give direction to all more detailed and particular forms of literary
study; and it would be the central medium through which those more
particular forms can be integrated with one another and with the
whole body of scientific knowledge.
>

#49 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Re: boston globe review of literary animal
clelburn1949
Send Email Send Email
 
Eugene Halton raises a question about the firmness and comprehensiveness of the evolutionary view of human nature:
 
"you probably would want to allow for changes and development of it. That is, you might want to allow that your framework could evolve. That requires fallibilism instead of fundamentalism ('the permanent, fundamental framework')."
 
            The question this remark raises is to what extent an evolutionary view of living things needs to be held suspended as a mere working hypothesis, rather than as an established scientific theory.  I think we are clearly past the working hypothesis stage on this issue.  The idea that all living things, including humans, have evolved is pretty much established as scientific fact--as close to "fact" as any scientific theory can well be. 
 
              If this is correct, then it really is the case that an evolutionary understanding of human nature is "the biggest matreshka doll into which all that is human fits."  To adopt another of Halton's metaphors, it is the toolkit and contains the blueprints, the hammers, the nails, the whole range of possible relevant factors.
 
            "Fundamentalism" is of course a loaded term, having reference most immediately to religious fundamentalism, to the belief, specifically, in the literal truth of the Bible.  Linking dogmatic religious faith with a reasoned belief in a scientific theory is a sophistical way of deprecating the comprehensiveness of the evolutionary view of human nature.  Virtually all practicing biologists are "fundamentalists" in the sense that they accept the fundamental truth of evolution, but of course the epistemological character of that acceptance is different, fundamentally different, from the kind of dogmatic and irrational belief that characterizes religious fundamentalism.
 
               One needs to be able to distinguish between rational belief in proven scientific theories and dogmatic convictions.  Failing to make distinctions like that leaves one waffly and wooly headed, holding all views lightly and incoherently, and mistaking that state of cognitive indistinctness for a condition of enlightened skepticism.  One thinks of Mr. Brooks, Dorothea's uncle, in Middlemarch.  Mr Booke had "gone into" a number of ideas in his youth, but he saw that they could all take him "too far, too far, you know."  He congratulates himself that he pulled up short, and as a consequence, in his late middle age, he has no distinct ideas at all.     
 
"You might even want to include your living mind, capable of spontaneous intelligence in the living moment, not solely reducible to the rules which gave birth to it."
 
            All this is fairly typical of a certain range of humanistic thinking.  It vaguely suggest that the human mind can escape causal processes.  We've been over that whole range of issues a number of times already on this list, and it would be tiresome to go back over them again.  I'll just say that there is a family likeness between a state of mind that fails to notice the difference between scientifically confirmed ideas and religious dogmatism, on the one side, and the state of mind that equates "spontaneous intelligence in the living moment" with a freedom from causal antecedents.

#50 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 9:18 pm
Subject: copied Harold Fromm letter to PMLA
clelburn1949
Send Email Send Email
 
I take it the Yahoo site doesn't transmit attachments, so I'll copy Harold Fromm's letter to PMLA:
 

August 30, 2005

 

PMLA Forum

Modern Language Association

26 Broadway / Third Floor

NY, NY 10004-1789

 

To the Editor:

 

            Robert Scholes’ elegant and resourceful Presidential Address, “The Humanities in a Posthumanist World,”  provided a hard-headed picture of the difficult times faced by the humanities. But its remedial conclusion, “going back” to the “roots” of language studies, fell sadly short of the one thing needful: Science. Summarizing George Steiner’s despairing essay in Salmagundi, with its painful contrast of the soft humanities with the hard sciences, Scholes quotes Steiner’s remark that, unlike the sciences, in the humanities “anyone can say anything.” But instead of benefiting from Steiner’s explosive message, Scholes just moves on.

 

            Reading Scholes’ address one would hardly know that the intellectual universe had been turned upside down over the past twenty-five years by Darwinian evolution’s “Modern Synthesis” and the latest developments in the cognitive neurosciences. Like the head-buried proponents of Intelligent Design, academics in the humanities don’t want to know that literary texts, far from being autotelic or merely a part of cultural history, are—like everything else produced by organisms— the products of biological history, which means the history of the body and its materially constituted brain. This brain is not a free-floating, self-determining, autonomous spook, with “roots” in language and the “trivium,” but  a gradually evolved custodian of the body that abetted the struggle for survival--and the production of offspring--against competing forces.  

 

            Indeed, language itself is a recently acquired capacity. Had human beings evolved somewhat differently, had genetic and environmental factors been slightly other than they were, had human beings been endowed with only three fingers instead of five, with differently formed vocal equipment, with batlike echo-location, with canine olfactory sensitivity, with the visual acuity  of hawks, or a different heart rate, a different metabolism, a different configuration of the brain, with different electro-chemical transmissions and greater or lesser sensitivity of the neurons—had any of these alternate paths been taken (or a million others), language and all of our arts would be radically different from what they are today. The composition of our blood, our involuntary emotions, our limited  ability to focus on more than a small handful of things at once, our need for certain nutrients, the right air quality, a nurturing caregiver—all these factors (and a million others) lie behind the meters and sonics of poetry, the subject matters of novels, the layout  and sense qualities of paintings, the scale of architecture, the compositional balances of photography, the failure of twelve tone music. And most crucial of all, these factors lie behind the universal characteristics of human beings of all cultures (as Donald Brown has amply demonstrated in Human Universals), however diverse their expression. The study of “literature” without an ever-conscious awareness of its biological contingencies is akin to the fantasizings of Creationism.

 

            Humanists who presume to deal with the arts—or the world—in the 21st century, not simply repeating exhausted truisms from years of  tedious inbreeding, should be facing up to E.O. Wilson, Stephen Pinker, Daniel Dennett, Joseph Carroll, Ellen Dissanayake, Richard Dawkins, Gerald Edelman, Jared Diamond, and similar thinkers who rarely can afford merely to “say anything.” It will take a lot more than a return to the same old “roots” to yank the humanities out of their dogmatic slumbers  in time to rescue the sinking ship. When what we need  to understand is how the machinery works, how it relates to our evolved nature, and what the arts and humanities have to do with it all, raising the ship’s tattered pennant a foot higher won’t do the trick.

 

 

Harold Fromm

Visiting Scholar in English

University of Arizona


#51 From: "eugenehalton" <Eugene.W.Halton.2@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: boston globe review of literary animal
eugenehalton
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Joseph Carroll,

	 I used the term fundamentalism to describe your view because
you claimed your evolutionary perspective to be "the permanent,
fundamental framework for all literary study." If you had said "the
permanent, foundational framework for all literary study," I would
have termed it foundationalist. Both mean the same thing, and both
are opposed to a scientific view. I am claiming that your claim that
our contemporary, fallible understanding of evolutionary theory can
provide, "the permanent, fundamental framework for all literary
study," is unscientific, in denying the possibility that the self-
corrective process of learning in which science consists might
correct the theory itself, not to mention its applications. Would you
have literature a million years from now be interpreted according to
what humans think evolution to be now? Would you base a cosmology in
a million years on the basis of physics today?

	 You state that, "One needs to be able to distinguish between
rational belief in proven scientific theories and dogmatic
convictions." Sadly, however, neither is possible in science, which
can hold neither dogmatic conviction nor rational belief. The most
science can hold, qua science, is fallible opinion, inherently
subject to possible correction by the self-correcting community of
inquiry. That is why I invoked fallibilism in the first place,
because your foundationalism in viewing evolutionary theory as "the
permanent, foundational framework for all literary study," seemed to
deny it. Even established theory, and not only working hypotheses,
remains provisional, fallible, and subject to possible correction. As
Charles Peirce, who coined the approach, put it:

     "For years [---] I used for myself to collect my ideas under the
designation fallibilism; and indeed the first step toward finding out
is to acknowledge you do not satisfactorily know already; so that no
blight can so surely arrest all intellectual growth as the blight of
cocksureness; and ninety-nine out of every hundred good heads are
reduced to impotence by that malady -- of whose inroads they are most
strangely unaware!
       Indeed, out of a contrite fallibilism, combined with a high
faith in the reality of knowledge, and an intense desire to find
things out, all my philosophy has always seemed to me to grow. . . ."
(A Fragment, Collected Papers Vol. 1.13-14, c. 1897)

	 Your claim that the human mind is solely determined
by "causal processes" neglects not only spontaneous intelligence as a
biosemiotic human capacity, but chance itself, which operates on the
human mind as well as the world at large.

	 Your claim that evolutionary theory eats all other forms of
interpretation strikes me as extreme overdeterminism. So many
theories in the past century were going to explain everything, from
Wittgenstein's "final solution" in the Tractatus, to positivism, to
science as invoked by futurists and mid-century avant-gardeists and
others since, to "the end of history," etc. These ideas failed to
appreciate the inherently fallible nature of ideas.

	 There is no god out of the machine that can "save the
appearances" and rescue literary interpretation from itself. There is
no ultimate Matreshka doll matrix providing "the permanent,
foundational framework for all literary study."

Eugene Halton



--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@u...>
wrote:
>
> Eugene Halton raises a question about the firmness and
comprehensiveness of the evolutionary view of human nature:
>
> "you probably would want to allow for changes and development of
it. That is, you might want to allow that your framework could
evolve. That requires fallibilism instead of fundamentalism ('the
permanent, fundamental framework')."
>
>             The question this remark raises is to what extent an
evolutionary view of living things needs to be held suspended as a
mere working hypothesis, rather than as an established scientific
theory.  I think we are clearly past the working hypothesis stage on
this issue.  The idea that all living things, including humans, have
evolved is pretty much established as scientific fact--as close
to "fact" as any scientific theory can well be.
>
>               If this is correct, then it really is the case that
an evolutionary understanding of human nature is "the biggest
matreshka doll into which all that is human fits."  To adopt another
of Halton's metaphors, it is the toolkit and contains the blueprints,
the hammers, the nails, the whole range of possible relevant factors.
>
>             "Fundamentalism" is of course a loaded term, having
reference most immediately to religious fundamentalism, to the
belief, specifically, in the literal truth of the Bible.  Linking
dogmatic religious faith with a reasoned belief in a scientific
theory is a sophistical way of deprecating the comprehensiveness of
the evolutionary view of human nature.  Virtually all practicing
biologists are "fundamentalists" in the sense that they accept the
fundamental truth of evolution, but of course the epistemological
character of that acceptance is different, fundamentally different,
from the kind of dogmatic and irrational belief that characterizes
religious fundamentalism.
>
>                One needs to be able to distinguish between rational
belief in proven scientific theories and dogmatic convictions.
Failing to make distinctions like that leaves one waffly and wooly
headed, holding all views lightly and incoherently, and mistaking
that state of cognitive indistinctness for a condition of enlightened
skepticism.  One thinks of Mr. Brooks, Dorothea's uncle, in
Middlemarch.  Mr Booke had "gone into" a number of ideas in his
youth, but he saw that they could all take him "too far, too far, you
know."  He congratulates himself that he pulled up short, and as a
consequence, in his late middle age, he has no distinct ideas at
all.
>
> "You might even want to include your living mind, capable of
spontaneous intelligence in the living moment, not solely reducible
to the rules which gave birth to it."
>
>             All this is fairly typical of a certain range of
humanistic thinking.  It vaguely suggest that the human mind can
escape causal processes.  We've been over that whole range of issues
a number of times already on this list, and it would be tiresome to
go back over them again.  I'll just say that there is a family
likeness between a state of mind that fails to notice the difference
between scientifically confirmed ideas and religious dogmatism, on
the one side, and the state of mind that equates "spontaneous
intelligence in the living moment" with a freedom from causal
antecedents.
>

#52 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Mon Nov 7, 2005 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: Re: boston globe review of literary animal
clelburn1949
Send Email Send Email
 
            In his previous note, Eugene Halton deprecated the firmness and comprehensiveness of an evolutionary understanding of human nature by noting that Levi-Strauss had thought he had a firm total theory, and was wrong.  In his most recent note, he adds to the list of people who have been wrong, and who, by having been wrong, prove, supposedly, that it isn't possible to be right.
 
"So many theories in the past century were going to explain everything, from Wittgenstein's "final solution" in the Tractatus, to positivism, to science as invoked by futurists and mid-century avant-gardeists and others since, to "the end of history," etc. These ideas failed to appreciate the inherently fallible nature of ideas."
 
            Halton evidently makes no distinction between the epistemological status of evolutionary theory, as it is currently understood, and these speculative schools and fancies.  Before Darwin's time, there were various speculative theories on evolution, the relations of species to one another, and the origins of functional design in living things.  Such theories (Lamarck's, Lyell's, Chambers', Paley's, etc.) were speculative notions roughly on a level with those cited by Halton as supposedly on a level with the Darwinian theory of evolution by means of natural selection. 
 
            But Halton is of course wrong in locating the current theory of evolution on the same level with these fanciful speculations.  Unlike his predecessors, and unlike Levi-Strauss or Wittgenstein, Darwin had a true insight into a natural mechanism, and the validity of that insight has been corroborated and extended by a century and a half of research into interconnected fields of knowledge--paleontology, comparative anatomy, ecology, physiology, embryology, and now, of course, genetics.
 
            Yes, every scientific theory is open to revision and development, but theories that have proven not only resilient but vastly fruitful do not merely disappear into the dustbin of fanciful speculations. If they are replaced, they are replaced by ever-more comprehensive theories that incorporate and extend their knowledge.  Newtonian mechanics were not simply eliminated by Einstein's more comprehensive theory; they were incorporated into it.
 
            In his preface to his edition of Darwin's The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals, Konrad Lorenz recounts this anecdote:  "A very great biologist and highly respected teacher of mine, Jakob von Uexkull, once said rather pessimistically that today's truth was, after all, nothing but the error of tomorrow.  Thereupon, another great biologist who is also one of my most highly revered teachers, Otto Koehler, answered: 'No, the truth of today is the special case of tomorrow!'"
 
            One can of course speculate about the ultimate scope of possible revisions to any theory, but one must also use a little judgment and sense in assessing the relative strength and firmness of given findings.  Is it likely that even a million years from now we shall believe that the sun revolves around the earth after all?  And is it likely that even a million years from now we shall believe that living organisms have not evolved under the shaping influence of selection pressures?  Invoking the general fallibility and incompleteness of all human knowledge does not absolve us from the obligation of making real and important distinctions between fanciful speculations and solidly established scientific principles, nor from the obligation to assess the relative weight and scope of those principles. 
 
            The doctrine of "fallibilism" can be used responsibly, or it can be used, as Halton is using it, as a epistemologically pietistic cover for a general vagueness and indistinctness in conceptual organization.  The use of such covers are generally not unmotivated.  They are all purpose forms of indeterminacy, used sometimes to disenable specific theories on ideological grounds, and used sometimes to legitimize indeterminacy as an end in itself.  In Halton's case, the latter function seems to be at work.  In Halton's rhetoric, indeterminacy serves as the conceptual medium for spiritualist rhapsody.
 
            "Your claim that the human mind is solely determined by 'causal processes' neglects not only spontaneous intelligence as a biosemiotic human capacity, but chance itself, which operates on the human mind as well as the world at large."
 
           And indeed, I shall continue to neglect "spontaneous intelligence as a biosemiotic human capacity," whatever that might mean, or not mean.  Given my own canons of conceptual validity, I'm pretty certain that the phrase, no matter how it was explained, would constitute itself in my judgment as meaningless verbiage--just babble.  The articulation of such phrases are, in my judgment, invitations to epistemic futility.  They are an expense of spirit in a waste of time. 
 
 

#53 From: "Tom Dolack" <tdolack@...>
Date: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:55 pm
Subject: RE: NYT Features Literary Darwinism
tomdolack
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for the link. For all who don't have a NY Times account, here is
a copy of the article, which I've also placed in the "files" section of
the group page.
It's good to get some visibility. Perfect timing, too, since I'm mailing
job letters out.
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: biopoet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biopoet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of syntiment
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 1:47 PM
To: biopoet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biopoet] NYT Features Literary Darwinism

I was rudely awakened this morning by my girlfriend: she leapt on top
of me, in bed, exclaiming excitedly in one, unbroken exhalation,
"There's an article in the Times Magazine about Literary Darwinists
with Joseph Carroll and Brian Boyd and it talks about how it will grow
because it's so cool!"

So, check it out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magazine/06darwin.html?pagewanted=1







Yahoo! Groups Links

#54 From: "Tom Dolack" <tdolack@...>
Date: Tue Nov 8, 2005 11:52 pm
Subject: FW: CFP: Neurology and Literature, 1800-present (11/30/05; ACLA)
tomdolack
Send Email Send Email
 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: owner-cfp@... [mailto:owner-cfp@...] On Behalf Of Anne Stiles

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:56 PM

To: cfp@...

Subject: CFP: Neurology and Literature, 1800-present (11/30/05; ACLA,

3/23/06-3/26/06)

 

Princeton, NJ, March 23-26, 2006

 

American Contemporary Literature Association Annual Meeting: The Human and Its Others

 

Seminar Title: Neurology and Literature, 1800-present

 

Seminar Organizer(s): Anne Stiles, UCLA; Maria Farland, Fordham University

 

Neurologists from the nineteenth century to the present have actively engaged in debates about what it means to be human. For instance, late-Victorian laboratory experiments on the brains of frogs, dogs, pigeons and monkeys suggested that animal and human brains are uncomfortably similar. These findings caused scientists and laymen alike to ponder whether humans are soulless automata. This seminar will explore how literary authors after 1800 have intervened in debates regarding brain function. In so doing, we aim to fill a prominent gap in current scholarship. Although there has been much excellent work on the relationship between literature and science in recent years, there has been very little discussion of the traffic between neurology and literature. Rather than suggesting that neurology influenced literature or vice versa, this seminar will emphasize the complex dialogue between these two disciplines. To that end, we will consider papers examining literature from a neurological perspective, as well as papers performing literary explications of neurological texts.

 

Participants may address topics including (but not limited to): -Neurological explanations of mental illness -Debates surrounding localization of brain function -Aphasia and other communication disorders -Motor automatism (somnambulism, automatic writing, etc.) -Controversial treatments like electroshock therapy, rest cures, etc. -Hypnoid or dissociative mental states -Phrenology and physiognomy in Victorian literature and science

 

How to submit proposals:

Visit ACLA's paper submission site: http://webscript.princeton.edu/~acla06/site/?page_id=4

The list of accepted seminars for the 2006 Annual Meeting has been posted. The conference is organized primarily into seminars (or "streams"), which consist either of twelve papers, if they meet on all three days of the conference, or eight to nine papers, if they meet on two days. Papers should be 15-20 minutes long-no longer-to allow time for discussion. To propose a paper, first consult the list of accepted seminar proposals. If you find a topic there that fits your paper, select that seminar when you fill out the paper proposal submission form. If you do not find a seminar topic that fits your paper, you may propose your paper for the general pool, out of which additional seminars are likely to be formed.

 

The submissions period for individual papers will begin thereafter and end on November 30, 2005. Please email Anne Stiles (stiles@...) if you have any questions about this particular seminar.

 

         ==========================================================

              From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List

                        CFP@...

                         Full Information at

                     http://cfp.english.upenn.edu

         or write Jennifer Higginbotham: higginbj@...

         ==========================================================

 


#55 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Wed Nov 9, 2005 11:55 pm
Subject: Introduction
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

I'm a writer and poet, which is a compulsion; a marketing
and technology project manager which is a living, and a
student of Evolutionary Biology and Psychology which is
a hobby.

I have always been fascinated by the Internet and its
opportunity to shape the future just by exchanging ideas.
It's like working with Caxton.

I'm also a father of four, but with no grandchildren yet,
which is causing me mild concern.  But I guess that's
just my genes at work.

Does this list really want a real-live poet..?  Poets are
very inconvenient people.  At best they cause controversy
and at worst they make people hide and cover their ears or
eyes.  This list looks a bit like the Evolutionary
Psychology group, and they don't have poets...

Here's a poem I wrote with strong undertones of an
evolutionnary biology strategy at work:

UNEXPECTED CHASTITY

Why did Jo say no...?
Dunno... but bluffing;
Nothing conceals embarrassment
At urgent teenage fumblings.

Why did I say no to Nicki..?
Tricky; sad from her lost lover, I from mine,
In far off mountain firelight to entwine,
Was clearly her desire but was not mine.

Next day in Briançon, trying to converse,
Rehearse lame excuses for saying no, when yes,
Confess would surely seem
A dream acknowledged and embraced.

With Jo, it's so, so obvious
That evening classes in technique would have served;
Unnerved that having brought me to her bed,
Instead, the sad apéritif convinced her to relinquish the main course.

Nicki I met again, later on,
In Embrun, passing through
And who was this swollen figure..?
Her vigorous parting boyfriend's one last gift.

I, coming soon after would have received
Unbelieved credit, without that strange impulse,
Repulse of one so much to be desired,
Inspired to unexpected chastity.

© Copyright Andy Morley 2005

Explanatory note : After our initial meeting, I later found
out the girl in question was already pregnant when I turned
down her kind offer.  Was this just cussedness on my part
(she was beautiful) or was it some subtle instinct at work..?

Andy Morley

.

#56 From: Allen MacNeill <adm6@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:12 am
Subject: Manifesto
darwinsbulld...
Send Email Send Email
 
In the spirit of Andy Morley's poem, I hereby offer another:

Manifesto

A poem is an organism!
It is more than simply an expression
Of an inner state of mind
Or a statement
Of a personal point of view.

The world communicates with itself though poetry:
Stones and the fragrant, humid soil
Speak through the mouth of the poet;
Trees gain voices
Deep, powerful, patient as life;
The silent, cold thoughts of fish
And the warm, sharp voices of foxes
Are translated in the mind of the poet
And spoken back to the land.
Are recycled through the hearts and minds of people
Who are not yet deaf
Or blind

An organism is a poem!
It is more than simply an expression
Of its DNA
Or a statement
Of a particular ecological niche

The Universe contemplates itself through organisms:
Calcium, phosphorus, and long-chain carbon molecules
Become sentient, become aware of themselves;
Trees become songs
Sung by the atmosphere to the music of sunlight;
The constant, focused awareness of sharks
And the tense, dancing touch of deer
Are spun from the silent heart of matter
And recycled back to the land,
Are spoken through the ceaseless evolution of a world
Which is no longer deaf
Or blind
Copyright © 31 March 1981
Allen D. MacNeill
 
P.S. I'm an evolutionary biologist, teacher, and writer. See:
"The capacity for religious experience is an evolutionary adaptation to warfare" in:
Fitzduff, M. & Stout, C. (2005) The Psychology of Resolving Global Conflicts, vol 1, ch 10.
Praeger Security International, London, UK. ISBN: 0-275-98201-7.
Scheduled publication date: 12/30/05
-- 
"Religion facilitates warfare, which facilitates religion"
   - MacNeill's Law (from Mars: Evolution and the Gods of War)

Allen D. MacNeill, Senior Lecturer
Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
G-24 Stimson Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
(607) 255-3357 (office)
(607) 255-0470 (fax)
adm6@...

#57 From: Mike Tintner <andarot@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: boston globe review of literary animal
andarot
Send Email Send Email
 
There is an absolutely fundamental confusion here
between "evolutionary theory" [or the evolutionary
perspective] and "evolutionary studies/ disciplines".

JC is correct, in my reading of him, that the
evolutionary perspective/ theory is now fundamental to
the whole of science - the unifying vision that all
things are made of the same or similar parts and
subsystems or building blocks, and that all things
have evolved over billions of years from the simplest
forms. This is very near to certain and not a matter,
as Eugene Halton seems to suggest at one point, of
opinion. It forms a rough "time map" of all species,
including chemical, almost as fundamental to us now as
the map of our earth.

Evolutionary studies or disciplines however - such as
evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology -
are a relatively small, though, of course significant
part, of the scientific enterprise -just a handful
among myriad different sciences. They, like almost all
sciences, are riven by conflict, particularly about
the modes as opposed to fact of evolution.

To suggest that any such studies/fields could provide
unifying  theories - especially theories of human
nature - for the whole of science is absurd (and
inversely proportional to the actual substance of
their findings to date). And it reflects another
fundamental failure to understand that studying how
the machine evolved is very different from, though
interrelated to, how the machine works (which is the
province of most, not evolutionary, sciences).

Hatton is broadly correct then, that to suggest that
the evolutionary perspective - or evolutionary
literary criticism - can form "the permanent,
fundamental framework for all literary study," is also
absurd. It prompts a comparison not so much with
Levi-Strauss or Mr Brooke as that other Middlemarch
character Casaubon pursuing a Key to all Mythologies.
Interestingly, Middlemarch which seems to be one of
JC's and my favourite novels, is all about the failed
pursuit of grand designs.

The relative absence of discussion on this board for
quite a while now, (which I'm sorry to see), is to my
mind, evidence that evo-lit criticism, contrary to the
hype, does not constitute anything like the scientific
or any other kind of pursuit of an integrated body of
knowledge. There was,is, and will be, no Key.

-----------------------------------
Joseph Carroll wrote:

In his previous note, Eugene Halton deprecated the
firmness
and comprehensiveness of an evolutionary understanding
of human nature
by noting that Levi-Strauss had thought he had a firm
total theory, and
was wrong.  In his most recent note, he adds to the
list of people who
have been wrong, and who, by having been wrong, prove,
supposedly, that
it isn't possible to be right.

"So many theories in the past century were going to
explain everything,
from Wittgenstein's "final solution" in the Tractatus,
to positivism,
to science as invoked by futurists and mid-century
avant-gardeists and
others since, to "the end of history," etc. These
ideas failed to
appreciate the inherently fallible nature of ideas."

             Halton evidently makes no distinction
between the
epistemological status of evolutionary theory, as it
is currently understood,
and these speculative schools and fancies.  Before
Darwin's time, there
were various speculative theories on evolution, the
relations of species
to one another, and the origins of functional design
in living things.
Such theories (Lamarck's, Lyell's, Chambers', Paley's,
etc.) were
speculative notions roughly on a level with those
cited by Halton as
supposedly on a level with the Darwinian theory of
evolution by means of
natural selection.

             But Halton is of course wrong in locating
the current
theory of evolution on the same level with these
fanciful speculations.
Unlike his predecessors, and unlike Levi-Strauss or
Wittgenstein, Darwin
had a true insight into a natural mechanism, and the
validity of that
insight has been corroborated and extended by a
century and a half of
research into interconnected fields of
knowledge--paleontology,
comparative anatomy, ecology, physiology, embryology,
and now, of course,
genetics.

             Yes, every scientific theory is open to
revision and
development, but theories that have proven not only
resilient but vastly
fruitful do not merely disappear into the dustbin of
fanciful speculations.
If they are replaced, they are replaced by ever-more
comprehensive
theories that incorporate and extend their knowledge.
Newtonian mechanics
were not simply eliminated by Einstein's more
comprehensive theory;
they were incorporated into it.

             In his preface to his edition of Darwin's
The Expression of
the Emotions in Man and Animals, Konrad Lorenz
recounts this anecdote:
"A very great biologist and highly respected teacher
of mine, Jakob von
Uexkull, once said rather pessimistically that today's
truth was, after
all, nothing but the error of tomorrow.  Thereupon,
another great
biologist who is also one of my most highly revered
teachers, Otto Koehler,
answered: 'No, the truth of today is the special case
of tomorrow!'"

             One can of course speculate about the
ultimate scope of
possible revisions to any theory, but one must also
use a little judgment
and sense in assessing the relative strength and
firmness of given
findings.  Is it likely that even a million years from
now we shall believe
that the sun revolves around the earth after all?  And
is it likely
that even a million years from now we shall believe
that living organisms
have not evolved under the shaping influence of
selection pressures?
Invoking the general fallibility and incompleteness of
all human
knowledge does not absolve us from the obligation of
making real and important
distinctions between fanciful speculations and solidly
established
scientific principles, nor from the obligation to
assess the relative
weight and scope of those principles.



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

#58 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: Manifesto
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, Allen MacNeill <adm6@c...> wrote:
>
> In the spirit of Andy Morley's poem, I hereby offer another:
>
> Manifesto
>
> A poem is an organism!
> It is more than simply an expression
> Of an inner state of mind
> Or a statement
> Of a personal point of view.

In a similar vein of Literary Darwinism, I would propose the
following which is the beginning of perhaps a more formal manifesto :

1. That those who would join us by posting their own creative writing
to a list such as this one should realise and agree that natural
selection applies to poems and other creative writings, whether they
are organisms or perhaps even memes.

2. That the readers of the list should be encouraged to recognise
that they are an environment in which these poem-organisms and memes
live and may breed and multiply or go extinct.  Therefore the list
members should apply pressures of natural selection by applying
vigorous brickbats of contempt or plaudits of admiration, as the mood
takes them.

3.  Accepting the nature of the environment, it is not anticipated
that it will be kind and nurturing, as might be expected of a
writer's group, nor ought it be subject to a particular political or
religious point of view as would be an ideological group of some
kind.  The logical expectation of an environment such as this one is
that it would be rigorous, intelligent and scientific, but that it
would also appreciate the artistic dimension.

4.  The next step in this voyage of discovery is likely to unfold
over the next few hours or days.  It will consist of the revelation
as to whether a large natural predator of the genus moderator will
come and eat this emerging manifesto, or whether this list represents
an environment that is a niche waiting to be colonised.

.

#59 From: Mike Tintner <andarot@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:43 pm
Subject: Re the Human, Posthuman and Transhuman (& the arts)
andarot
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks, Tom, for the Neurology and Literature,
1800-present info.

Reading that:
"Neurologists from the nineteenth century to the
present have actively
engaged in debates about what it means to be human"
prompted some loose but to me interesting thoughts.

I find it fascinating that we have had EP and related
disciplines emerging at more or less the same time as
"post-human" and "transhuman" fields of speculation
AND technology (cloning et al).

Here on the one hand we have had scientists
(predominantly conservative, no?) concerned to
establish some fundamental and largely immutable human
nature. And on the other hand, people are increasingly
thinking about how far we can, or should, change it.

Googling on from that conference, for example, I came
to a Transhumanist one next year which will consider:

Day One: Human Enhancement and Control of the Body

For instance, papers might address:
- How much morphological diversity can the polity
sustain?
- Animal-human chimeric enhancement and animal rights
- Reproductive cloning: Irrelevant, futile or an
important battle?
- Disability rights and cyborg assistive technology
- Life extension and the right to die: Two sides of
the same coin?
- Germline engineering and the consent of the future
generations
- Procreative liberty and the genetic enhancement of
children
- The medicalization of transgenderism
- Cosmetic surgery and future body modification

Day Two: Cognitive Enhancement Technology

For instance, papers might address:
- Enhancing capacities for citizenship
- Social equality and cognitive enhancement
- Freedom of thought as a basis for rights to use
cognitive enhancement
- Psychoactive drug law reform
- Religious liberty and entheogens
- Regulating the risks of neural implants and brain
machines
- The myth of the “authentic self”
- Challenges to human personhood and citizenship from
cognitive enhancement
- Use of technologies of personality modification in
criminal rehabilitation

--

(It's ironic, too that many EP conservatives,
especially on the evo-psych group, are trying to
assert the natural limits to female intelligence and
ambition , just when, in the last two decades or so,
we have had the most amazing academic catchup by
females of males, to the point where girls now
outperform boys academically in many countries).

Don't get me wrong - there IS a human nature, and it's
important to establish it. But it consists of very
broad, general and malleable urges. And what seems to
be overlooked is that it's a fundamental dimension of
human nature and all species' nature to keep changing
that nature - to keep seeking more freedom, with an
ever greater range of movement, thought and activity.
(In fact, I would say that that - the quest for more
freedom - should be a theme that unifies evolutionary
studies). To use a very clumsy metaphor, you have to
know the nature of the plasticine, but then you think
about how to remould it.

There's a further irony regarding any evolutionary
approach to literature and the arts. (And there's a
question too: would you say most of you guys are
conservatives like the EP-ers?) Actually, the arts are
almost exclusively about human beings trying to extend
human nature - to stretch the plasticine - rather than
the fundamental nature of that nature. (Somebody think
of a more appropriate metaphor).

Just some loose thoughts - but I would very much
welcome comments.



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars -
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

#60 From: "Tom Dolack" <tdolack@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:31 pm
Subject: RE: Re the Human, Posthuman and Transhuman (& the arts)
tomdolack
Send Email Send Email
 

1) Thanks to Andy and Allen for putting the "poet" back it "biopoetics." Hopefully will find time to run them through the memetic meatgrinder later. (you two may be interested to check this out in the meantime: http://www.entelechyjournal.com/)

 

 

2) In response to Mike:

 

>Don't get me wrong - there IS a human nature, and it's

>important to establish it. But it consists of very

>broad, general and malleable urges. And what seems to

>be overlooked is that it's a fundamental dimension of

>human nature and all species' nature to keep changing

>that nature - to keep seeking more freedom, with an

>ever greater range of movement, thought and activity.

>(In fact, I would say that that - the quest for more

>freedom - should be a theme that unifies evolutionary

>studies). To use a very clumsy metaphor, you have to

>know the nature of the plasticine, but then you think

>about how to remould it.

 

 

I don't like the plasticine metaphor. It implies that human nature is infinitely malleable, which it is not. I also get from your post that you think art can change human nature, which I don’t think it can. The metaphor I would use is a building foundation. Any type of building can be built on a specific foundation (a house, a hospital, a church…), but the foundation constrains the shape of that building. To extend the metaphor I would say art is a flashlight that can help us see what’s in the dank, dark corners of the basement. Take Dostoevsky. Reading him doesn’t alter who we are, just makes us recognize parts of us that we would otherwise like to ignore. (There’s a big huge project waiting to be done on Dostoevsky and ev psych.)

 

Like Mike, just some thoughts, but if it gets discussion moving...

Tom


#61 From: "mike99" <mike99@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:12 pm
Subject: RE: the Human, Posthuman and Transhuman (& the arts)
mike2050us
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Mike,
I just joined this list and decided to make my first posting a response to
yours because it implicates me as someone who is interested in both
evolutionary psychology and transhumanism.

I work as a teacher in the English Dept. of New Mexico State University. I
volunteer for, and have been elected to the Board of Directors of, the World
Transhumanist Association.

I think that the neo-Darwinian synthesis, including evolutionary psychology,
can go a long way toward explaining human urges, tendencies and behaviors.
Similarly, I see much promise in cognitive science and the related fields of
neurophilosophy (Patricia Churchland) and neurotheology (esp. Pascal Boyer).
These seem likely to tell us much about how we came to be the way we are.

At the same time that the new science is explaining humans more deeply and
reliably (truly) than previous theories could, I believe that technology is
giving us the ability to change ourselves more deeply and profoundly than
ever before. Genetic engineering, cyborgization devices (artificial auditory
and visual aids, for example) and computers (plus, in the near future,
nanotechnology) may permit us to radically change the ground rules that
evolutionary psychology is just now explaining. Fear of such a change to
these ground rules is what animated, for example, Francis Fukayama in his
declaration that transhumanism is "the most dangerous idea on earth."

Dangerous, yes, just as any world-changing idea is dangerous. As Nietzsche
wrote, "Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman: a rope
across an abyss - a dangerous going across, a dangerous wayfaring, a
dangerous looking back, a dangerous shuddering and staying still."


Regards,

Michael LaTorra

mike99@...
mlatorra@...

"For any man to abdicate an interest in science is to walk with open eyes
towards slavery."
-- Jacob Bronowski

"Experiences only look special from the inside of the system."
-- Eugen Leitl

Member:
Board of Directors, World Transhumanist Association: www.transhumanism.org
Board of Directors, Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies:
http://ieet.org/
Extropy Institute: www.extropy.org
Alcor Life Extension Foundation: www.alcor.org
Society for Universal Immortalism: www.universalimmortalism.org
President, Zen Center of Las Cruces: www.zencenteroflascruces.org

> -----Original Message-----
>    Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:43:01 +0000 (GMT)
>    From: Mike Tintner <andarot@...>
> Subject: Re the Human, Posthuman and Transhuman (& the arts)
>
> Thanks, Tom, for the Neurology and Literature,
> 1800-present info.
>
> Reading that:
> "Neurologists from the nineteenth century to the
> present have actively
> engaged in debates about what it means to be human"
> prompted some loose but to me interesting thoughts.
>
> I find it fascinating that we have had EP and related
> disciplines emerging at more or less the same time as
> "post-human" and "transhuman" fields of speculation
> AND technology (cloning et al).
>
> Here on the one hand we have had scientists
> (predominantly conservative, no?) concerned to
> establish some fundamental and largely immutable human
> nature. And on the other hand, people are increasingly
> thinking about how far we can, or should, change it.
>
> Googling on from that conference, for example, I came
> to a Transhumanist one next year which will consider:
>
...
>
> (It's ironic, too that many EP conservatives,
> especially on the evo-psych group, are trying to
> assert the natural limits to female intelligence and
> ambition , just when, in the last two decades or so,
> we have had the most amazing academic catchup by
> females of males, to the point where girls now
> outperform boys academically in many countries).
>
> Don't get me wrong - there IS a human nature, and it's
> important to establish it. But it consists of very
> broad, general and malleable urges. And what seems to
> be overlooked is that it's a fundamental dimension of
> human nature and all species' nature to keep changing
> that nature - to keep seeking more freedom, with an
> ever greater range of movement, thought and activity.
> (In fact, I would say that that - the quest for more
> freedom - should be a theme that unifies evolutionary
> studies). To use a very clumsy metaphor, you have to
> know the nature of the plasticine, but then you think
> about how to remould it.
>
> There's a further irony regarding any evolutionary
> approach to literature and the arts. (And there's a
> question too: would you say most of you guys are
> conservatives like the EP-ers?) Actually, the arts are
> almost exclusively about human beings trying to extend
> human nature - to stretch the plasticine - rather than
> the fundamental nature of that nature. (Somebody think
> of a more appropriate metaphor).
>
> Just some loose thoughts - but I would very much
> welcome comments.

#62 From: "joaimone" <joaimone@...>
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: Manifesto
joaimone
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@h...>
wrote:
>
>
> In a similar vein of Literary Darwinism, I would propose the
> following which is the beginning of perhaps a more formal
manifesto :
>
> 1. That those who would join us by posting their own creative
writing
> to a list such as this one should realise and agree that natural
> selection applies to poems and other creative writings, whether
they
> are organisms or perhaps even memes.
>

In fact, poets could find an unlimited number of niches for their
work outside this list, all of which would, one way or another,
subject the survival and reproduction of their work to selection
quite naturally.

As a poet with interests I find well served on this list without any
original poetry appearing on it, I concede that it might be useful
for poets who are on this list to have workshop environment online.
Perhaps one should be created by poets who are part of this group.
It is not, however, obvious that the exchange of argument and data
that is the ordinary business of this list will be importantly
enhanced by unselected poetry appearing here begging for life
support, corrective criticism or applause. So a separate venue seems
in order.


> 2. That the readers of the list should be encouraged to recognise
> that they are an environment in which these poem-organisms and
memes
> live and may breed and multiply or go extinct.  Therefore the list
> members should apply pressures of natural selection by applying
> vigorous brickbats of contempt or plaudits of admiration, as the
mood
> takes them.

I believe this will all happen quite naturally, without any special
encouragement. But it may be disappointing to the poets who post
their poems here. On the other hand, it may make them better poets.
I am not sure, however, that many participants in this group have
much interest in helping poets improve their poems. Again, perhaps
another adjacent site would serve better.

>
> 3.  Accepting the nature of the environment, it is not anticipated
> that it will be kind and nurturing, as might be expected of a
> writer's group, nor ought it be subject to a particular political
or
> religious point of view as would be an ideological group of some
> kind.  The logical expectation of an environment such as this one
is
> that it would be rigorous, intelligent and scientific, but that it
> would also appreciate the artistic dimension.

There is some artistic dimension to any writing. So I would expect
that certain judgments of taste will be among the issues raised in
the ordinary course of discussion, and that any appetite for
tasteful writing may be satisfied by well written correspondence
containing arguments and information germane to the topics of
discussion, without the posting of poetry. Is there a hunger in the
hearts of the readers of this list for poetry written by other
members of the group? I think it would be presumptuous to answer in
the affirmative.



>
> 4.  The next step in this voyage of discovery is likely to unfold
> over the next few hours or days.  It will consist of the
revelation
> as to whether a large natural predator of the genus moderator will
> come and eat this emerging manifesto, or whether this list
represents
> an environment that is a niche waiting to be colonised.
>
> .
>

I have to agree that poets should be alert to the possibility of
critics on this list who will eat them alive, or try. But poets can
be pretty fierce themselves, when roused. They are often equipped
with natural weaponry against which critics have no defense worthy
of the name.

But will this list be a happy hunting ground for poets, or a
suitable place for breeding amongst themselves and birthing their
offspring? They may find themselves wishing for a more sheltered
environment, even if they outwit the critics and slip past the
moderators.

I am certainly not offering to create or manage any such sheltered
environment friendly to poets friendly to evolutionary thinking. But
I might like to visit there, take my ease, indulge my fancies,
compete with my peers, criticize my friends, models and competitors,
seduce my beloveds and wail my woes and generally act like a poet
there, if nature would kindly oblige and produce such a niche nearby.

#63 From: biopoet@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:53 am
Subject: New poll for biopoet
biopoet@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
biopoet group:

Is literary meaning open to explanation in terms of concrete
particulars, such as text-induced activation of neural
architecture and attendant conscious/nonconscious experience,
or is meaning always subject to some type of cultural context
or third variable beyond the bounds of empirical discovery?

   o Meaning will always contain an irreducible element, whether it’s inflected
by private, subjective experience or some cultural context. We can never be sure
that "all the facts are in," so no--it's inherently impossible to explain
meaning concretely.
   o Anything deemed "beyond the bounds of empirical discovery" is rooted in some
type of relativism or mysticism--yet meaning is physiologically substantiated
within an adaptive brain, so yes, eventually meaning will be open to empirical
explanation.
   o It's impossible to say at this stage--evolutionary science lacks sufficient
data and experimental success in the area of semantics to answer "no" or "yes"
with any degree of confidence.


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biopoet/surveys?id=1829825

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

#64 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:16 am
Subject: Re: Manifesto
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "joaimone" <joaimone@y...> wrote:
>
> But poets can  be pretty fierce themselves, when roused. They are
> often equipped with natural weaponry against which critics have no
> defense worthy of the name.
>
There once were two cats of Kilkenny,
Each thought there was once cat too many,
So they fought and they fit,
And they scratched and they bit,
Till excepting their tails,
And the tips of their nails,
Instead of two cats there weren't any.

(anon)

I fine example of Biopoetics wouldn't you say..?

Cheers,

Andy Morley

.

#65 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:38 am
Subject: Re: New poll for biopoet
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, biopoet@yahoogroups.com wrote:
[reverse snip]
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.

Understood, and I know how these poll things work, but would appreciate
some prior discussion, particularly definition of terms...

> Is literary meaning open to explanation in terms of concrete
> particulars, such as text-induced activation of neural
> architecture and attendant conscious/nonconscious experience,
> or is meaning always subject to some type of cultural context
> or third variable beyond the bounds of empirical discovery?

What do we mean by the word 'meaning'..?  It's one of those words, the sense of
which seems so obvious that we dismiss the need for definition, and yet when
challenged to provide one, the obvious can suddenly seem much less obvious
than it did before the question was asked.

Of course I may be wrong, in which case it will be a very simple matter to
answer my question.

NB - the other words in the question are fine by me, it's just this one...

Thanks,

Andy Morley

#66 From: <zach@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for biopoet
syntiment
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Any ambiguity in this poll is intentional.

If we get into specific definitions of meaning here, we'll skew the
results of the poll. Let us wait until all the votes are in (Nov 24th),
and then we'll debate.

-ZN

--- andy_morleyuk <andy_morley@...> wrote:

> --- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, biopoet@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> [reverse snip]
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
>
> Understood, and I know how these poll things work, but would
> appreciate
> some prior discussion, particularly definition of terms...
>
> > Is literary meaning open to explanation in terms of concrete
> > particulars, such as text-induced activation of neural
> > architecture and attendant conscious/nonconscious experience,
> > or is meaning always subject to some type of cultural context
> > or third variable beyond the bounds of empirical discovery?
>
> What do we mean by the word 'meaning'..?  It's one of those words,
> the sense of
> which seems so obvious that we dismiss the need for definition, and
> yet when
> challenged to provide one, the obvious can suddenly seem much less
> obvious
> than it did before the question was asked.
>
> Of course I may be wrong, in which case it will be a very simple
> matter to
> answer my question.
>
> NB - the other words in the question are fine by me, it's just this
> one...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy Morley
>
>
>
>
>
>

#67 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: New poll for biopoet
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, <zach@c...> wrote:
>
> Any ambiguity in this poll is intentional.
>
> If we get into specific definitions of meaning here, we'll skew the
> results of the poll. Let us wait until all the votes are in (Nov 24th),
> and then we'll debate.

Cool.

#68 From: "Joseph Carroll" <jcarroll@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:57 pm
Subject: composite list of great books of 20th century
clelburn1949
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            A few months ago, I asked members of this list to identify their top ten favorite Anglophone books of the past forty years or so.  There were a lot of interesting responses.
 
            I was looking about on the web for lists of top books of the twentieth century and came across a link that others might find useful or interesting.  It is a statistical composite, containing 223 titles, of four other lists: http://www.stanford.edu/~bkunde/best/bl-intro.htm#T
 
Here is how the author of the list describes it:
 

"This list is a composite of four earlier lists compiled by the Modern Library, the Library Journal, Koen Book Distributors, and students of the Radcliffe Publishing Course, each of which purports to identify the best twentieth century fiction written in English. It was compiled in hope of arriving at a more comprehensive view of what the century's best fiction actually is."

 

            The list is presented in various formats--by ranking, by author, by title, and by date.  The statistical ranking is a system devised to average out the rankings of the source lists.

 
            The final list of 223 excludes translated works and works of non-fiction, but it offers a supplementary list of the works that were on the original lists but that were excluded from the composite list because they did not meet the criteria (Anglophone fiction of the twentieth century).
 
            Here's a link that contains some other lists, including "feminista" top fiction and top science fiction works: http://www.reinyday.com/rachel/daily/entry/100s.html
 
******** 
 
            On a different topic, this past Sunday the forthcoming collection, The Literary Animal, was discussed in the Boston Globe and the New York Times Magazine, and today The Guardian commented, not on the book itself, but on the editor's impression of the topic of the book, an impression produced only by having read the essay in the Times Magazine:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1639816,00.html 
            The commentary is hostile, in an ignorant and unconsidered way, but such notices bring the book to the public's attention, and also suggest that the book is provocative enough to provoke rash editorial commentaries--on the whole, good advertising.
 
            Science and Nature have also undertaken to comment on the book, and presumably the authors of these commentaries will actually have read the book before commenting on it.
 

#69 From: biopoet@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:55 pm
Subject: New file uploaded to biopoet
biopoet@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the biopoet
group.

   File        : /Art and Evolution - Nietzsche's Physiological Aesthetics.pdf
   Uploaded by : andarot <andarot@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biopoet/files/Art%20and%20Evolution%20-%20Nietzsch\
e%27s%20Physiological%20Aesthetics.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

andarot <andarot@...>

#70 From: "joaimone" <joaimone@...>
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:34 pm
Subject: Re: Manifesto
joaimone
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "joaimone" <joaimone@y...> wrote:
> >
> > But poets can  be pretty fierce themselves, when roused. They are
> > often equipped with natural weaponry against which critics have no
> > defense worthy of the name.
> >
> There once were two cats of Kilkenny,
> Each thought there was once cat too many,
> So they fought and they fit,
> And they scratched and they bit,
> Till excepting their tails,
> And the tips of their nails,
> Instead of two cats there weren't any.
>
> (anon)
>
> I fine example of Biopoetics wouldn't you say..?
>

It's a fine example of the survival of folk poetry, certainly, but
hardly original work. Maybe that makes it a meme. And, an apparent
product of the nineteenth century, when it first appeared in scholarly
discussion at any rate, it might be supposed to represent the work of
a poet who knew of Darwin's dangerous idea, though it might be older
and Darwin's influence only a deceptive appearance--if there were any
such appearance. (The fitter here apparently did not survive any
better than the fit.) The more tempting explanation for the meaning of
the poem is that it is an oblique reference to the rivalry of
Englishtown and Irishtown in the neighborhood of Kilkenny. But in all
probability, the choice of Kilkenny was made because of the paucity of
rhymes for many and any in English. So it would be an example of
poetry constrained by the sensory channel in which it occurs,
suggesting that signal selection may be involved. The survival of the
archaic "fit" as a past tense of "fight" in this case also would seem
to be an example of the same constraint, the need of rhyme at any cost
itself providing the assurance of fidelity in the reproduction of the
poem.

#71 From: "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@...>
Date: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:46 am
Subject: Re: Manifesto
andy_morleyuk
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "joaimone" <joaimone@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "andy_morleyuk" <andy_morley@h...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In biopoet@yahoogroups.com, "joaimone" <joaimone@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > But poets can  be pretty fierce themselves, when roused. They are
> > > often equipped with natural weaponry against which critics have no
> > > defense worthy of the name.
> > >
> > There once were two cats of Kilkenny,
> > Each thought there was once cat too many,
> > So they fought and they fit,
> > And they scratched and they bit,
> > Till excepting their tails,
> > And the tips of their nails,
> > Instead of two cats there weren't any.
> >
> > (anon)
> >
> > I fine example of Biopoetics wouldn't you say..?
> >
>
> It's a fine example of the survival of folk poetry, certainly, but
> hardly original work.

What do you mean by 'original'..?  I quoted the story of 'Rindercella'
in the Yahoo Literature List, attributing it to Ronnie Barker.  Someone
told me that it was based on a piece by Archie Campbell.  Which may
well be true - I certainly found an example when I googled for it.
But though the Campbell version is superficially similar, it has none of
the wit, breadth of cultural allusions, clever use of language and general
'originality' that Ronnie Barker gave it.

> Maybe that makes it a meme.

The evolution from 'Cinderella' to 'Rindercella' is analogous to  a major
mutation.  At that stage it might have caused a few laughs and then
died out.  Then Fate in the rotund shape of Ronnie Barker whisked it
up and transmogrified it.  I would call Ronnie Barker's version
'original' in all senses really.

This makes me wonder about Intelligent Design.

God clearly exists.  There's hard evidence for that all around us.
People get so heated on this question, when really it's a no-brainer.
They let their emotions get in the way of their logic.

The question  they should be getting heated over is the nature of God.
All the hard evidence indicates that his nature is akin to that of King
Lear, Sherlock Holmes or any one of a number of other such cultural
artifacts that you can talk to other people about, and they will have
a strong, if sometimes fuzzy, concept of what the character in
question represents.

God is much bigger in scale and scope than Sherlock Holmes say.
Holmes stands for the detached but flawed Human intellect.  God
represents a great many more things, ideas and issues that are
intricately bound up with the Human Condion.

If you take cruder examples, like the concept of magic, it seems to have
an important function in encapsulating human aspirations at a stage in
'evolution' of a society where the available science and manufacturing or
communication techniques can't deliver them.

So these days we can fly through the air, though we don't use broomsticks,
we walk around the streets talking to our familiar spirits, though these are
made manifest in mobile phones and bluetooth headsets rather than
black cats and we can see through, around and beyond walls without the
help of voodoo.

Intelligent Design clearly exists too, just like God.  Go to any farm or dog-
show you like and you'll see plenty of evidence.  But there's no hard evidence
that I'm aware of that demonstrates any intelligent design that is non-human.
Given the size of the Universe, the probability that other intelligent life
forms.
exist could be roughly quantified, though the probability of some over-arching
intelligence à la Douglas Adams is much less easy to arrive at and I would peg
it at a provisional level that is very, very low...   But this is getting boring
and
predictable so :

People intervene in nature to make choices.  Sometimes these choices are
largely governed by instinct, sometimes by intuition, sometimes emotion
ans sometimes logic.  But even when we are being logical, we are only
aware of the bigger implications of our choices to a limited extent, if at all.
Still, that aggregated effect is very real, behaves to an extent  like evolution
and  natural selection but has some other dimensions because intelligence
is involved at least to an extent.  Ho hum...

> And, an apparent
> product of the nineteenth century, when it first appeared in scholarly
> discussion at any rate, it might be supposed to represent the work of
> a poet who knew of Darwin's dangerous idea, though it might be older
> and Darwin's influence only a deceptive appearance--if there were any
> such appearance. (The fitter here apparently did not survive any
> better than the fit.) The more tempting explanation for the meaning of
> the poem is that it is an oblique reference to the rivalry of
> Englishtown and Irishtown in the neighborhood of Kilkenny.

Or possibly a satirical allusion to events in contemporary national politics.
Or both, and maybe other things too.  Have you come across the concept
of 'The Intentional Fallacy'..?

> But in all
> probability, the choice of Kilkenny was made because of the paucity of
> rhymes for many and any in English.

Occam's razor..?  I think not.

> So it would be an example of
> poetry constrained by the sensory channel in which it occurs,
> suggesting that signal selection may be involved. The survival of the
> archaic "fit" as a past tense of "fight" in this case also would seem
> to be an example of the same constraint, the need of rhyme at any cost
> itself providing the assurance of fidelity in the reproduction of the
> poem.

My favourite analogy for this kind of argument is that of a fibre-optic
cable carrying telephone conversations.  Is what it going on down that
pipe rapidly pulsating and highly structered emissions of light, or is the
life, death, sex and tedium - conversation as a protocol carrying the
stuff of life itself..?  What IS going on here..?

Andy Morley

#72 From: "joaimone" <joaimone@...>
Date: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: Manifesto
joaimone
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I have to apologize for wasting your, and everybody else's, time in
this exchange. I mistook your postings for wryly toned but ultimately
serious dicsussion.

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