Hello
An invite to an H5 social networking site was send from my address book
earlier. Please ignore it and delete it was sent without my knowledge!
Many thanks
Happy New Year!
Philip
...many on this group are fans of EMD export units and there are a lot of photos
of such units in starkly beautiful South American landscapes at
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=630
Enjoy,
Mike Tisdale
Thanks Mike. Just checked the G16 photos. Interesting to see the shots of G16s (or 661's) working or dumped in Serbia, wonder if they have trouble getting spares from the US?
What is incredible is that like SZ (Slovenian Railways) they still have the green livery with yellow/black stripes that I think they were delivered with nearly 50 years ago! Is this a record for the life of a particular livery?
It makes you wonder if it is the paint holding the bodywork together now!
Regards
Bob
--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Mike <tisdalem@...> wrote:
From: Mike <tisdalem@...> Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 3 December, 2009, 19:20
The trucks on the G16s and other 6 axle EMD export units are light weight versions of the Flexicoil. I guess the axle spacing is a bit uneven, but it is not as uneven as the axle spacing on contemporary Alcos and Baldwins which had an arrangement of axle-motor motor-axle motor-axle (AM MA MA). EMD trucks and current GE trucks are arranged motor-axle motor-axle motor-axle (MA MA MA), which is why the axle spacing is even, or close to it.
Putting a RENFE Alco body on your EMD frame would result in something that would look like a rhino humping an elephant, I fear. There are examples of re-powered units with the wrong bodies for their frames and they look pretty funny,
With the way UP has taken over railroads in the US, maybe you can invent an alternative reality in which UP has an overseas department, like Wisconsin Central and EWS, and sent Tito some SD9s after beefing up the track to handle them!
Mike Tisdale
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote: > > Thanks Mike I have noticed from photos of the 661's that the axles are not equally apaced in the trucks, which they are on my model of the SD-9. Why is that? It makes my bogies now look very unlike what was under a 661. My model is numbered 778. > Â > I had already given up on the body and tried to find if I could get a MABAR body of a RENFE Alco to modify to put
on top. Now I'm begiining to think I've got to rethink completely. Anyone out there want a HO UP SD-9 with sound etc? > Â > Merry Christmas everyone on this chat-room, thanks for all the advice. > Â > Bob Brown > > --- On Wed, 2/12/09, Mike <tisdalem@.. .> wrote: > > > From: Mike <tisdalem@.. .> > Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 > To: balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com > Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 18:21 > > > Â > > > > Robert, > > Externally, the SD7s and SD9s are pretty much identical. I told SP's apart by their numbers. > > Internally, the SD7 has a 1500 HP 567B engine,
the SD9 a 1750 HP 567C. These are the North American ratings of these engines, overseas, the ratings are a bit higher. > > The JZ 661 is an EMD G16, which is the equivalent export model to the SD9. From a mechanical and electric perspective, the two have a lot in common. The bodies and trucks, however, aren't quite as similar, as photos will show. > > The SD18 was a later model with an 1800 HP 567D1 engine. It had spotting differences in the radiator fan area, 2 bigger fans instead of 4 smaller. It would be no closer to a G16 than the other two. > > People who know eastern European railroads would probably notice if you painted an SD7/9/18 as a 661. It's a bit like the cognitive dissonance railfans feel when they see a Great Western engine painted red for the Hogwarts Express...like why couldn't they have used Leander, eh? Most people in America or the UK won't know the difference, but those who do will know
it's not quite right. > > Mike Tisdale > > --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote: > > > > Sorry to revive this old subject, but on Saturday I picked up in Brighton a cheap unboxed EMD loco with high hood which turns out to be: > >  > > http://www.hobbylin c.com/htm/ bro/bro5073. htm > >  > > There are superficial similarities betwen this and a JZ 661 but a lot of differences once I started having a look at photos, even with the bogies which I thought would be the same. > >  > > Would I have been better off getting a model of an SD-9? What's the difference? I must admit once I realised it was DCC fitted with sound I found it hard to turn down. > >  > > Someone has been giving me back issues of
"Trains" ; in a recent isue there was an old photo of DM&IR locos on a freight which looked like your SD18. I can't really afford a bras limited edition though. Someone said Frateschi in Brazil made G-16s, where could I but one? > > Â > > Bob Brown > > > > --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@ .> wrote: > > > > > > From: Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@ .> > > Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 > > To: balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com > > Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 12:53 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > No Mike this is fascinating. > > > > > > The obvious question for me now
is: > > > > > > Which railroads in the USA had SD-18s, and is there a commercial > > HO scale model of one available? > > > > According to the "Diesel Spotter's Guide", EMD built 47 SD18s from > > 1960-1963. 4 axle units were still more popular in the US in the > > early 60s, and these SD18s were built for heavy haul service on > > Bessemer and Lake Erie, Chesapeake and Ohio, Chicago and Illinois > > Midland, Reserve Mining, and Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range. > > > > There was also a 2400 HP turbocharged version, the SD24, built at the > > same time that sold 171 units, plus 44 cabless SD24B units, the latter > > to UP. The higher horsepower was more popular for lines that had > > trains that had to move faster, while the relative simplicity of the > > SD18 (no turbocharger to maintain) appealed to lines than
needed more > > raw pulling power than horsepower. > > > > There are probably brass models of the SD18 out there, but I don't > > know, off hand, of any mass produced plastic models. Remember, > > though, that I am not an active modeler, so I'm not up on what > > everyone is producing. The SD18 is very similar to the SD9, but there > > is a bit of difference in the radiator area. > > > > US six axle EMDs have a different radiator than the export > > models...except for the SD45T-2 and SD40T-2 units of SP and Rio > > Grande, both now part of UP. Those use the low radiator intake that > > is found on the G16 and other export models. > > > > >From pictures I have seen of US 6-wheel bogied diesels in the "cab > > near one end" style there always seem to be side projections off the > > top roof, they like
like ducting of some kind. The 661s on JZ though > > have perfectly square top outlines. > > > > Those side projections on GP7 through SD40 models are for dynamic > > (regenerative) brakes. The SD45s also had flared radiators behind the > > dynamic brake bulges. EMD built units with and without dynamic > > brakes, so some locomotives will have the dynamic brake bulge and some > > won't. On at least some of EMD's export models, the dynamic brake > > resistors and fans are in the short hood. > > > > Early in North American dieselization, railroads with significant > > mountain grades tended to get locomotives with dynamic brakes, those > > that were mainly flat, did not. That's why you'll see GP9s of the New > > York Central with flat hood sides, while Pennsylvania' s had dynamic > > brake bulges. > > > > This
is a good page for information about EMD's export units: > > > > http://emdexport. railfan.net/ > > > > Mike Tisdale > > >
The trucks on the G16s and other 6 axle EMD export units are light weight
versions of the Flexicoil. I guess the axle spacing is a bit uneven, but it is
not as uneven as the axle spacing on contemporary Alcos and Baldwins which had
an arrangement of axle-motor motor-axle motor-axle (AM MA MA). EMD trucks and
current GE trucks are arranged motor-axle motor-axle motor-axle (MA MA MA),
which is why the axle spacing is even, or close to it.
RailPictures.net has a bunch of G16 photos at
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?offset=0&where=%7CEMD+G16%7C%7C%7C%7C\
%7C%7C%7C1%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7CEMD+G16%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C\
%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C or better yet just go to http://www.railpictures.net
and search for EMD G16 as the locomotive.
Putting a RENFE Alco body on your EMD frame would result in something that would
look like a rhino humping an elephant, I fear. There are examples of re-powered
units with the wrong bodies for their frames and they look pretty funny,
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=145465&nseq=1
for instance.
A Baldwin center cab transfer unit should look more like
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=291135&nseq=0
or
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=215581&nseq=3
With the way UP has taken over railroads in the US, maybe you can invent an
alternative reality in which UP has an overseas department, like Wisconsin
Central and EWS, and sent Tito some SD9s after beefing up the track to handle
them!
Mike Tisdale
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike I have noticed from photos of the 661's that the axles are not
equally apaced in the trucks, which they are on my model of the SD-9. Why is
that? It makes my bogies now look very unlike what was under a 661. My model is
numbered 778.
> Â
> I had already given up on the body and tried to find if I could get a MABAR
body of a RENFE Alco to modify to put on top. Now I'm begiining to think I've
got to rethink completely. Anyone out there want a HO UP SD-9 with sound etc?
> Â
> Merry Christmas everyone on this chat-room, thanks for all the advice.
> Â
> Bob Brown
>
> --- On Wed, 2/12/09, Mike <tisdalem@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike <tisdalem@...>
> Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613
> To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 18:21
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Robert,
>
> Externally, the SD7s and SD9s are pretty much identical. I told SP's apart by
their numbers.
>
> Internally, the SD7 has a 1500 HP 567B engine, the SD9 a 1750 HP 567C. These
are the North American ratings of these engines, overseas, the ratings are a bit
higher.
>
> The JZ 661 is an EMD G16, which is the equivalent export model to the SD9.
From a mechanical and electric perspective, the two have a lot in common. The
bodies and trucks, however, aren't quite as similar, as photos will show.
>
> The SD18 was a later model with an 1800 HP 567D1 engine. It had spotting
differences in the radiator fan area, 2 bigger fans instead of 4 smaller. It
would be no closer to a G16 than the other two.
>
> People who know eastern European railroads would probably notice if you
painted an SD7/9/18 as a 661. It's a bit like the cognitive dissonance railfans
feel when they see a Great Western engine painted red for the Hogwarts
Express...like why couldn't they have used Leander, eh? Most people in America
or the UK won't know the difference, but those who do will know it's not quite
right.
>
> Mike Tisdale
>
> --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to revive this old subject, but on Saturday I picked up in Brighton a
cheap unboxed EMD loco with high hood which turns out to be:
> > Â
> > http://www.hobbylin c.com/htm/ bro/bro5073. htm
> > Â
> > There are superficial similarities betwen this and a JZ 661 but a lot of
differences once I started having a look at photos, even with the bogies which I
thought would be the same.
> > Â
> > Would I have been better off getting a model of an SD-9? What's the
difference? I must admit once I realised it was DCC fitted with sound I found
it hard to turn down.
> > Â
> > Someone has been giving me back issues of "Trains" ; in a recent isue there
was an old photo of DM&IR locos on a freight which looked like your SD18. I
can't really afford a bras limited edition though. Someone said Frateschi in
Brazil made G-16s, where could I but one?
> > Â
> > Bob Brown
> >
> > --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@ .> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@ .>
> > Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613
> > To: balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com
> > Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 12:53 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > No Mike this is fascinating.
> > >
> > > The obvious question for me now is:
> > >
> > > Which railroads in the USA had SD-18s, and is there a commercial
> > HO scale model of one available?
> >
> > According to the "Diesel Spotter's Guide", EMD built 47 SD18s from
> > 1960-1963. 4 axle units were still more popular in the US in the
> > early 60s, and these SD18s were built for heavy haul service on
> > Bessemer and Lake Erie, Chesapeake and Ohio, Chicago and Illinois
> > Midland, Reserve Mining, and Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range.
> >
> > There was also a 2400 HP turbocharged version, the SD24, built at the
> > same time that sold 171 units, plus 44 cabless SD24B units, the latter
> > to UP. The higher horsepower was more popular for lines that had
> > trains that had to move faster, while the relative simplicity of the
> > SD18 (no turbocharger to maintain) appealed to lines than needed more
> > raw pulling power than horsepower.
> >
> > There are probably brass models of the SD18 out there, but I don't
> > know, off hand, of any mass produced plastic models. Remember,
> > though, that I am not an active modeler, so I'm not up on what
> > everyone is producing. The SD18 is very similar to the SD9, but there
> > is a bit of difference in the radiator area.
> >
> > US six axle EMDs have a different radiator than the export
> > models...except for the SD45T-2 and SD40T-2 units of SP and Rio
> > Grande, both now part of UP. Those use the low radiator intake that
> > is found on the G16 and other export models.
> >
> > >From pictures I have seen of US 6-wheel bogied diesels in the "cab
> > near one end" style there always seem to be side projections off the
> > top roof, they like like ducting of some kind. The 661s on JZ though
> > have perfectly square top outlines.
> >
> > Those side projections on GP7 through SD40 models are for dynamic
> > (regenerative) brakes. The SD45s also had flared radiators behind the
> > dynamic brake bulges. EMD built units with and without dynamic
> > brakes, so some locomotives will have the dynamic brake bulge and some
> > won't. On at least some of EMD's export models, the dynamic brake
> > resistors and fans are in the short hood.
> >
> > Early in North American dieselization, railroads with significant
> > mountain grades tended to get locomotives with dynamic brakes, those
> > that were mainly flat, did not. That's why you'll see GP9s of the New
> > York Central with flat hood sides, while Pennsylvania' s had dynamic
> > brake bulges.
> >
> > This is a good page for information about EMD's export units:
> >
> > http://emdexport. railfan.net/
> >
> > Mike Tisdale
> >
>
Thanks Mike I have noticed from photos of the 661's that the axles are not equally apaced in the trucks, which they are on my model of the SD-9. Why is that? It makes my bogies now look very unlike what was under a 661. My model is numbered 778.
I had already given up on the body and tried to find if I could get a MABAR body of a RENFE Alco to modify to put on top. Now I'm begiining to think I've got to rethink completely. Anyone out there want a HO UP SD-9 with sound etc?
Merry Christmas everyone on this chat-room, thanks for all the advice.
Bob Brown
--- On Wed, 2/12/09, Mike <tisdalem@...> wrote:
From: Mike <tisdalem@...> Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 18:21
Robert,
Externally, the SD7s and SD9s are pretty much identical. I told SP's apart by their numbers.
Internally, the SD7 has a 1500 HP 567B engine, the SD9 a 1750 HP 567C. These are the North American ratings of these engines, overseas, the ratings are a bit higher.
The JZ 661 is an EMD G16, which is the equivalent export model to the SD9. From a mechanical and electric perspective, the two have a lot in common. The bodies and trucks, however, aren't quite as similar, as photos will show.
The SD18 was a later model with an 1800 HP 567D1 engine. It had spotting differences in the radiator fan area, 2 bigger fans instead of 4 smaller. It would be no closer to a G16 than the other two.
People who know eastern European railroads would probably notice if you painted an SD7/9/18 as a 661. It's a bit like the cognitive dissonance railfans feel when they see a Great Western engine painted red for the Hogwarts
Express...like why couldn't they have used Leander, eh? Most people in America or the UK won't know the difference, but those who do will know it's not quite right.
Mike Tisdale
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote: > > Sorry to revive this old subject, but on Saturday I picked up in Brighton a cheap unboxed EMD loco with high hood which turns out to be: > > http://www.hobbylin c.com/htm/ bro/bro5073. htm > > There are superficial similarities betwen this and a JZ 661 but a lot of differences once I started having a look at photos, even with the bogies which I thought would be the same. >
> Would I have been better off getting a model of an SD-9? What's the difference? I must admit once I realised it was DCC fitted with sound I found it hard to turn down. > > Someone has been giving me back issues of "Trains" ; in a recent isue there was an old photo of DM&IR locos on a freight which looked like your SD18. I can't really afford a bras limited edition though. Someone said Frateschi in Brazil made G-16s, where could I but one? > > Bob Brown > > --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@.. .> wrote: > > > From: Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@.. .> > Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 > To: balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com > Date:
Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 12:53 AM > > > > > > > --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> > wrote: > > > > No Mike this is fascinating. > > > > The obvious question for me now is: > > > > Which railroads in the USA had SD-18s, and is there a commercial > HO scale model of one available? > > According to the "Diesel Spotter's Guide", EMD built 47 SD18s from > 1960-1963. 4 axle units were still more popular in the US in the > early 60s, and these SD18s were built for heavy haul service on > Bessemer and Lake Erie, Chesapeake and Ohio, Chicago and Illinois > Midland, Reserve Mining, and Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range. > > There was also a 2400 HP turbocharged version, the SD24, built at the > same time that sold 171 units, plus 44 cabless SD24B
units, the latter > to UP. The higher horsepower was more popular for lines that had > trains that had to move faster, while the relative simplicity of the > SD18 (no turbocharger to maintain) appealed to lines than needed more > raw pulling power than horsepower. > > There are probably brass models of the SD18 out there, but I don't > know, off hand, of any mass produced plastic models. Remember, > though, that I am not an active modeler, so I'm not up on what > everyone is producing. The SD18 is very similar to the SD9, but there > is a bit of difference in the radiator area. > > US six axle EMDs have a different radiator than the export > models...except for the SD45T-2 and SD40T-2 units of SP and Rio > Grande, both now part of UP. Those use the low radiator intake that > is found on the G16 and other export models. > > >From pictures I have
seen of US 6-wheel bogied diesels in the "cab > near one end" style there always seem to be side projections off the > top roof, they like like ducting of some kind. The 661s on JZ though > have perfectly square top outlines. > > Those side projections on GP7 through SD40 models are for dynamic > (regenerative) brakes. The SD45s also had flared radiators behind the > dynamic brake bulges. EMD built units with and without dynamic > brakes, so some locomotives will have the dynamic brake bulge and some > won't. On at least some of EMD's export models, the dynamic brake > resistors and fans are in the short hood. > > Early in North American dieselization, railroads with significant > mountain grades tended to get locomotives with dynamic brakes, those > that were mainly flat, did not. That's why you'll see GP9s of the New > York Central with flat hood sides, while
Pennsylvania' s had dynamic > brake bulges. > > This is a good page for information about EMD's export units: > > http://emdexport. railfan.net/ > > Mike Tisdale >
Robert,
Externally, the SD7s and SD9s are pretty much identical. I told SP's apart by
their numbers.
Internally, the SD7 has a 1500 HP 567B engine, the SD9 a 1750 HP 567C. These
are the North American ratings of these engines, overseas, the ratings are a bit
higher.
The JZ 661 is an EMD G16, which is the equivalent export model to the SD9. From
a mechanical and electric perspective, the two have a lot in common. The bodies
and trucks, however, aren't quite as similar, as photos will show.
The SD18 was a later model with an 1800 HP 567D1 engine. It had spotting
differences in the radiator fan area, 2 bigger fans instead of 4 smaller. It
would be no closer to a G16 than the other two.
People who know eastern European railroads would probably notice if you painted
an SD7/9/18 as a 661. It's a bit like the cognitive dissonance railfans feel
when they see a Great Western engine painted red for the Hogwarts Express...like
why couldn't they have used Leander, eh? Most people in America or the UK won't
know the difference, but those who do will know it's not quite right.
Mike Tisdale
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry to revive this old subject, but on Saturday I picked up in Brighton a
cheap unboxed EMD loco with high hood which turns out to be:
>
> http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bro/bro5073.htm
>
> There are superficial similarities betwen this and a JZ 661 but a lot of
differences once I started having a look at photos, even with the bogies which I
thought would be the same.
>
> Would I have been better off getting a model of an SD-9? What's the
difference? I must admit once I realised it was DCC fitted with sound I found it
hard to turn down.
>
> Someone has been giving me back issues of "Trains" ; in a recent isue there
was an old photo of DM&IR locos on a freight which looked like your SD18. I
can't really afford a bras limited edition though. Someone said Frateschi in
Brazil made G-16s, where could I but one?
>
> Bob Brown
>
> --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@...>
> Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613
> To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 12:53 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > No Mike this is fascinating.
> >
> > The obvious question for me now is:
> >
> > Which railroads in the USA had SD-18s, and is there a commercial
> HO scale model of one available?
>
> According to the "Diesel Spotter's Guide", EMD built 47 SD18s from
> 1960-1963. 4 axle units were still more popular in the US in the
> early 60s, and these SD18s were built for heavy haul service on
> Bessemer and Lake Erie, Chesapeake and Ohio, Chicago and Illinois
> Midland, Reserve Mining, and Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range.
>
> There was also a 2400 HP turbocharged version, the SD24, built at the
> same time that sold 171 units, plus 44 cabless SD24B units, the latter
> to UP. The higher horsepower was more popular for lines that had
> trains that had to move faster, while the relative simplicity of the
> SD18 (no turbocharger to maintain) appealed to lines than needed more
> raw pulling power than horsepower.
>
> There are probably brass models of the SD18 out there, but I don't
> know, off hand, of any mass produced plastic models. Remember,
> though, that I am not an active modeler, so I'm not up on what
> everyone is producing. The SD18 is very similar to the SD9, but there
> is a bit of difference in the radiator area.
>
> US six axle EMDs have a different radiator than the export
> models...except for the SD45T-2 and SD40T-2 units of SP and Rio
> Grande, both now part of UP. Those use the low radiator intake that
> is found on the G16 and other export models.
>
> >From pictures I have seen of US 6-wheel bogied diesels in the "cab
> near one end" style there always seem to be side projections off the
> top roof, they like like ducting of some kind. The 661s on JZ though
> have perfectly square top outlines.
>
> Those side projections on GP7 through SD40 models are for dynamic
> (regenerative) brakes. The SD45s also had flared radiators behind the
> dynamic brake bulges. EMD built units with and without dynamic
> brakes, so some locomotives will have the dynamic brake bulge and some
> won't. On at least some of EMD's export models, the dynamic brake
> resistors and fans are in the short hood.
>
> Early in North American dieselization, railroads with significant
> mountain grades tended to get locomotives with dynamic brakes, those
> that were mainly flat, did not. That's why you'll see GP9s of the New
> York Central with flat hood sides, while Pennsylvania' s had dynamic
> brake bulges.
>
> This is a good page for information about EMD's export units:
>
> http://emdexport. railfan.net/
>
> Mike Tisdale
>
Provisional details of planned PTG Tours trip to Bulgaria in May 2010 using
former British Rail electric locomotives. Details on PTG site shortly.
http://www.ptg.co.uk/
01 May: Sofia (1) – Pirdop (2) – Karlovo – Tulovo – Karnobat – Komunari –
Sindel – Razdelna (3) – Varna
02 May: Varna (3) – Varna feribotna - Razdelna (4) – Kaspichan – Shumen –
Gorna Oriahovitsa – Veliko Turnovo
03 May: Veliko Turnovo (4) – Careva livada - Gabrovo - Careva livada -
Tulovo – Karlovo – Pirdop (5) – Kremikovtsi – Sofia
*With numbers in brackets – change of BZK locos, 87004 requested (BR blue),
also GBRF blue, BZK green and BZK grey plus one other.
PTG are able to offer the special trains at just £99 per day which is
exceptional value for a European tour. Full 5 day tour from UK including
flights, four nights in 4-star hotels and the three special charters will be
from just £599. Note, these are anticipated prices at this stage!
There are superficial similarities betwen this and a JZ 661 but a lot of differences once I started having a look at photos, even with the bogies which I thought would be the same.
Would I have been better off getting a model of an SD-9? What's the difference? I must admit once I realised it was DCC fitted with sound I found it hard to turn down.
Someone has been giving me back issues of "Trains" ; in a recent isue there was an old photo of DM&IR locos on a freight which looked like your SD18. I can't really afford a bras limited edition though. Someone said Frateschi in Brazil made G-16s, where could I but one?
Bob Brown
--- On Sat, 1/11/08, Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@...> wrote:
From: Mike Tisdale <tisdalem@...> Subject: Re: GPs and SDs, High and Low, RE: [balkrail-l] Digest Number 613 To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 12:53 AM
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote: > > No Mike this is fascinating. > > The obvious question for me now is: > > Which railroads in the USA had SD-18s, and is there a commercial HO scale model of one available?
According to the "Diesel Spotter's Guide", EMD built 47 SD18s from 1960-1963. 4 axle units were still more popular in the US in the early 60s, and these SD18s were built for heavy haul service on Bessemer and Lake Erie, Chesapeake and Ohio, Chicago and Illinois Midland, Reserve Mining, and Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range.
There was also a 2400 HP turbocharged version, the SD24, built at the same time that sold 171 units, plus 44 cabless SD24B units, the
latter to UP. The higher horsepower was more popular for lines that had trains that had to move faster, while the relative simplicity of the SD18 (no turbocharger to maintain) appealed to lines than needed more raw pulling power than horsepower.
There are probably brass models of the SD18 out there, but I don't know, off hand, of any mass produced plastic models. Remember, though, that I am not an active modeler, so I'm not up on what everyone is producing. The SD18 is very similar to the SD9, but there is a bit of difference in the radiator area.
US six axle EMDs have a different radiator than the export models...except for the SD45T-2 and SD40T-2 units of SP and Rio Grande, both now part of UP. Those use the low radiator intake that is found on the G16 and other export models.
>From pictures I have seen of US 6-wheel bogied diesels in the "cab near one end" style there always seem to be
side projections off the top roof, they like like ducting of some kind. The 661s on JZ though have perfectly square top outlines.
Those side projections on GP7 through SD40 models are for dynamic (regenerative) brakes. The SD45s also had flared radiators behind the dynamic brake bulges. EMD built units with and without dynamic brakes, so some locomotives will have the dynamic brake bulge and some won't. On at least some of EMD's export models, the dynamic brake resistors and fans are in the short hood.
Early in North American dieselization, railroads with significant mountain grades tended to get locomotives with dynamic brakes, those that were mainly flat, did not. That's why you'll see GP9s of the New York Central with flat hood sides, while Pennsylvania' s had dynamic brake bulges.
This is a good page for information about EMD's export units:
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John Gulliver of the Friends of Slovenian Railways Museum (FOSZM) has been able to translate for me a passage from a book avaiable at the museum writen by the renowned Slovenian railway enthusiast Tadej Brate, author of other books on Jugoslavian and Slovenian railways.
It reads:
Withdrawn engines 29-021, 53-010 and 36-048 were down for a locomotive exchange between Slovenia and Bosnia. They were earmarked for a Bosnian railway museum, but were destroyed in the last [ie, the civil] war. From Bosnia we received an adhesion locomotive, no. 133-005 and two rack engines. The first, 97-028, went to the museum in Ljubljana, while the second, 97-029, went to the narrow gauge museum at Frojach in Austria. The next exchange involved the Sudbahn series 17c locomotive no. 406 (formerly 103-000), from the private Graz Koflach Railway [the GKB].
Does anyone know in what circumstances these 3 locos ( ex KkstB/BBoe class 80 2-10-0, ex-BBOe 378 class 2-8-2T, ex KPEV G12 2-10-0) were "lost"? I have it in mind that when some UK military went into Sarajevo as peacekeepers, one reported that Sarajevo station or the yards nearby contained some "derelict" steam loco hulks.
To add a little to those notes in the link....
The Shkoder - Pogorica link was closed in 1990 as part of UN sanctions on the
then former Yugoslavia. It briefly re-opened in 1997 but soon after, during
unrest in Albania, long sections of rail were stolen and smuggled out of the
country for their scrap value. The section between the border and Bajze Yard
just inside Albania was re-opened in 2002 and the link south of there to Shkoder
was rebuilt by 2003 by using rails lifted from the Rubik to Rreshen branch. A
new treaty was signed to re-open the line in 1997 (and again in 2002/3?).
As far as I know just one passenger special has been recorded as running on this
link - the initial inauguration train in 1985.
Geoff Sarbutt
________________________________
From: Paul Steane <paul.groups@...>
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Maurits Vink <mauritsvink@ ...> wrote:
>
> I may have missed it, but are there any railway connections between Albania
> and other countries?
>
> Maurits Vink
>
Yes - with Montenegro - see
http://www.steane.com/egtre/borders/xings.php?country=AL
Okay! I needed to travel by taxi from Shköder to Bar (Montenegro) last year.
Maurits
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Paul Steane <paul.groups@...> wrote:
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com, Maurits Vink <mauritsvink@...> wrote:
>
> I may have missed it, but are there any railway connections between Albania
> and other countries?
>
> Maurits Vink
>
Just been advised the tour has been cancelled due to problems getting any sense
out of the Montenegrans. No tour details where ever issued
Mark
www.mark5814.fotopic.net
www.mark5812.fotopic.net
Since I wrote this I have looked closer at the Halliwell book.
In fact BERLINER MASCHINENBAU GMBH is not MBA, it seems to be a firm which used to be called Schwartzkopf, a much more prodigious builder. Of the batch of locos bought from DB in 1952, at least 7 came from there: 33-236/241/245/247/257/259/263. In Halliwell's book it is abbreviated to "Schw". Only in the Index does it state that it was described as above.
The other remarkable fact is that, as I learned in the post yesterday from the Summer edition of "The Cornet", the newsletter of the Friends of Slovenia Railway Museum, that one of this batch is still, far from rusting or stuffed and mounted, in commercial use at the Kreka Mines! 33-236 (Henschel 28142/44 ex DR 52.817) actually hauled a rail-tour earlier this year around Bosnia, although it is one of the two or three still in industrial use for coal trains, probably the last German-built steam locos in the world in commercial service.
How ironic that a loco that Ian Fleming probably saw as a rusty heap nearly 60 years ago, should outlive him, and the vast majority of his generation.
Bob Brown
--- On Tue, 23/6/09, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> wrote:
From: Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> Subject: [balkrail-l] "From Russia With Love" To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 23 June, 2009, 2:26 PM
I just read through Iam Fleming's original novel, having of course seen the film many times in the past. A lot of the plot revolves around a journey by Bond and a glamorous Russian spy, on the Orient express from Istanbul back across Europe to Paris.
In the book Fleming records an intersting railway observation at Zagreb:
"Vinkovci came, and (Slavonski) Brod and then, against a flaming dawn, the ugly sprawl of Zagreb. The train came to a stop between lines of rusting locomotives captured from the Germans and still standing forlornly amongst the grass and weeds on the sidings. Bond read the plate on one of them - BERLINER MASCHINENBAU GMBH - as they slid out through the iron cemetery. Its long black barrel had been raked with machine-gun bullets. Bond heard the scream of the dive-bomber and saw the upflung arms of the driver. For a moment he thought nostalgicaly and unreasonably of the excitement and turmoil of the hot war, compared with his own underground skirmishings since the war had turned cold".
Regular readers of this letter will know I have some interest in the history of the JZ class 33. It was obvious to me that the builder (known as MBA for short) plate could only have been on a 33 (or DR 52 ) Kriegslok.
Fleming must have done this trip himself, but the first Bond book was not written until 1952, "From Russia With Love" appeared in 1957. By referring to the Halliwell book "Locomotives of Jugoslavia volume 1" (published 1973) we find that as late as 1952, JZ bought 35 class 52's from DB, and renumbered them 33.231-265.
Of these 35 locos, only TWO are shown in Halliwell's book as built by MBA, 33-248 (ex 52.4779, MBA 13830/43, and 33-249 (ex 52.4887, MBA 13957/43). Since the locos were supplied and numbered in blocks, even some others from this purchase which Halliwell could not identify specifically, are unlikely to have been from an MBA batch.
It would seem that Fleming quite by chance picked out one of 33.248/9 from these 35 or possibly 36 (one more was purchased but presumably cannibalised) locos which were presumably towed to Zagreb some time in 1952 and put back into service there.
Ironically I think in the film they make use of one of the TCDD 52's in the famous scene where Bond and Tatiana Romanova abandon the train by the lineside - this is not in the book. The scenes were presumably filmed somewhere between Istanbul and the Greek frontier, the 567xx class did work on the European section, though most worked in Asia. Does anyone know which TCDD loco was used; is it clear in the film?
I just read through Iam Fleming's original novel, having of course seen the film many times in the past. A lot of the plot revolves around a journey by Bond and a glamorous Russian spy, on the Orient express from Istanbul back across Europe to Paris.
In the book Fleming records an intersting railway observation at Zagreb:
"Vinkovci came, and (Slavonski) Brod and then, against a flaming dawn, the ugly sprawl of Zagreb. The train came to a stop between lines of rusting locomotives captured from the Germans and still standing forlornly amongst the grass and weeds on the sidings. Bon read the plate on one of them - BERLINER MASCHINENBAU GMBH - as they slid out through the iron cemetery. Its long black barrel had been raked with machine-gun bullets. Bond heard the scream of the dive-bomber and saw the upflung arms of the driver. For a moment he thought nostalgicaly and unreasonably of the excitement and turmoil of the hot war, compared with his own underground skirmishings since the war had turned cold".
Regular readers of this letter will know I have some interest in the history of the JZ class 33. It was obvious to me that the builder (known as MBA for short) plate could only have been on a 33 (or DR 52 ) Kriegslok.
Fleming must have done this trip himself, but the first Bond book was not written until 1952, "From Russia With Love" appeared in 1957. By referring to the Halliwell book "Locomotives of Jugoslavia volume 1" (published 1973) we find that as late as 1952, JZ bought 35 class 52's from DB, and renumbered them 33.231-265.
Of these 35 locos, only TWO are shown in Halliwell's book as built by MBA, 33-248 (ex 52.4779, MBA 13830/43, and 33-249 (ex 52.4887, MBA 13957/43). Since the locos were supplied and numbered in blocks, even some others from this purchase which Halliwell could not identify specifically, are unlikely to have been from an MBA batch.
It would seem that Fleming quite by chance picked out one of 33.248/9 from these 35 or possibly 36 (one more was purchased but presumably cannibalised) locos which were presumably towed to Zagreb some time in 1952 and put back into service there.
Ironically I think in the film they make use of one of the TCDD 52's in the famous scene where Bond and Tatiana Romanova abandon the train by the lineside - this is not in the book. The scenes were presumably filmed somewhere between Istanbul and the Greek frontier, the 567xx class did work on the European section, though most worked in Asia. Does anyone know which TCDD loco was used; is it clear in the film?
Could I please ask if anyone out there knows where I can get drawings of these locos? Do any exist?
I have received some glorious photos from Friedrich Haftel of no 1932 (now U57.001) in CSD blue. It looks like a mini 498.1!
Also Club 760, who restored it, also have one of the 2-6-2 73's which were laid aside in Prijedor in 1975, no. 73-019 which has yet to be restored to working order. Would anyone like to help me raise funds for this?
Regards Bob Brown
--- On Sat, 13/6/09, Thomas <tks71@...> wrote:
From: Thomas <tks71@...> Subject: [balkrail-l] Re: JZ narrow-gauge To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 13 June, 2009, 1:58 PM
Six Skoda 0-10-0's were delivered to JZ in 1949 (N°s. 1932-1937). These were used mainly on the former Steinbeisbahn out of Dvar. Two (1932 & 1935) were later sold to the Banovici coal mines. Out of the six, at least three have survived to this day:
19-32 was sold to Club 760 and transferred to the ÖBB Central Workshops at Knittelfeld in Austria, where its restoration was started. It was moved to Murau for completion in 2002 and restoration ended in 2004. Now operational, it has been leased for a period of fifteen years to "Olpas Moravia s.r.o." Krnov in the Czech Republic and is based on the CD Tremesna ve Slezske – Osoblaha narrow gauge branch, where it is relieving Romanian-built 0-8-0T U46.002 (which proved not powerfull enough) on the weekly tourist trains. It was formally inaugurated on May 22nd. It is now numbered U57.001 and liveried dark blue. Photos here: http://www.club760. at/html/Club- News.htm http://www.club760. at/html/Lokomoti ven.htm#
19-33 has been reported plinthed at Drvar, but has probably since been scrapped.
You could contact Club 760 to obtain a draing of the loco.
Regards, Thomas Kautzor.
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@ ...> wrote: > > Philip did you get the details of this from the "Locomotives of Yugoslavia volume 1" published by Stenvalls, Malmo in about 1973? This book is amazingly still in print. > > I wanted to track down Chris Halliwell the author,
Stenvall himself gave me a contact email but he said he would be surprised if I got a response and so far (after about 6 months!) I haven't. Has anyone a postal address? > > I wanted to ask Halliwell what hapened to the data for the projected volume 2 on narrow-gauge railways in Yugo, which sadly never appeared in print. I am now desperate for a line drawing of the class of 6(?) 76cm 0-10-0s which were ordered in about 1947 from Skoda, numbered I think 1932-7. > > I saw no. 1936 still working on the remnants of the Prijedor-Srnetica "Steinbeisbahn" in Summer 1975, I think the last year the line was open. Subsequently 1937 was plinthed somewhere near Doboj (?) I saw an article about it in Narrow Gauge World. If anyone has a good photo of it could they send it to me please? > > Regards Bob Brown >
Six Skoda 0-10-0's were delivered to JZ in 1949 (N°s. 1932-1937). These were
used mainly on the former Steinbeisbahn out of Dvar. Two (1932 & 1935) were
later sold to the Banovici coal mines. Out of the six, at least three have
survived to this day:
19-32 was sold to Club 760 and transferred to the ÖBB Central Workshops at
Knittelfeld in Austria, where its restoration was started. It was moved to Murau
for completion in 2002 and restoration ended in 2004. Now operational, it has
been leased for a period of fifteen years to "Olpas Moravia s.r.o." Krnov in the
Czech Republic and is based on the CD Tremesna ve Slezske – Osoblaha narrow
gauge branch, where it is relieving Romanian-built 0-8-0T U46.002 (which proved
not powerfull enough) on the weekly tourist trains. It was formally inaugurated
on May 22nd. It is now numbered U57.001 and liveried dark blue. Photos here:
http://www.club760.at/html/Club-News.htmhttp://www.club760.at/html/Lokomotiven.htm#
19-33 has been reported plinthed at Drvar, but has probably since been scrapped.
19-34 is plinthed at Prijedor in the Republika Srpska, photo here (3rd entry):
http://www.zeljeznice.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139194&sid=f5966700430018979bd8f\
593613487e7
19-37 is plinthed in front of the ZRS HQs in Doboj (on the main thoroughfare). A
number of photos of her appear on the net:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/16141314http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5992045http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5609480http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14999483http://www.panoramio.com/photo/12286036
You could contact Club 760 to obtain a draing of the loco.
Regards,
Thomas Kautzor.
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> wrote:
>
> Philip did you get the details of this from the "Locomotives of Yugoslavia
volume 1" published by Stenvalls, Malmo in about 1973? This book is amazingly
still in print.
>
> I wanted to track down Chris Halliwell the author, Stenvall himself gave me a
contact email but he said he would be surprised if I got a response and so far
(after about 6 months!) I haven't. Has anyone a postal address?
>
> I wanted to ask Halliwell what hapened to the data for the projected volume 2
on narrow-gauge railways in Yugo, which sadly never appeared in print. I am now
desperate for a line drawing of the class of 6(?) 76cm 0-10-0s which were
ordered in about 1947 from Skoda, numbered I think 1932-7.
>
> I saw no. 1936 still working on the remnants of the Prijedor-Srnetica
"Steinbeisbahn" in Summer 1975, I think the last year the line was open.
Subsequently 1937 was plinthed somewhere near Doboj (?) I saw an article about
it in Narrow Gauge World. If anyone has a good photo of it could they send it to
me please?
>
> Regards Bob Brown
>
--- In balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertbrownbdz@...> wrote:
>
> Philip did you get the details of this from the "Locomotives of Yugoslavia
volume 1" published by Stenvalls, Malmo in about 1973?
Yes, info from that book. I have no contact with the author. Sorry
Philip did you get the details of this from the "Locomotives of Yugoslavia volume 1" published by Stenvalls, Malmo in about 1973? This book is amazingly still in print.
I wanted to track down Chris Halliwell the author, Stenvall himself gave me a contact email but he said he would be surprised if I got a response and so far (after about 6 months!) I haven't. Has anyone a postal address?
I wanted to ask Halliwell what hapened to the data for the projected volume 2 on narrow-gauge railways in Yugo, which sadly never appeared in print. I am now desperate for a line drawing of the class of 6(?) 76cm 0-10-0s which were ordered in about 1947 from Skoda, numbered I think 1932-7.
I saw no. 1936 still working on the remnants of the Prijedor-Srnetica "Steinbeisbahn" in Summer 1975, I think the last year the line was open. Subsequently 1937 was plinthed somewhere near Doboj (?) I saw an article about it in Narrow Gauge World. If anyone has a good photo of it could they send it to me please?
Regards Bob Brown
--- On Sat, 13/6/09, philip521435 <pwormald@...> wrote:
From: philip521435 <pwormald@...> Subject: [balkrail-l] Re: JZ 661's lost at sea To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 13 June, 2009, 12:33 PM
> I've been told that a shipment of new 661's from USA to Yugoslavia was lost at sea back in the early 60's. > Can anyone confirm this, and can anyone eventually supply me with the unit numbers (or which numbers they were intended to have)that was lost ? > If known, I am also very interested in why, where, which vessel and so on :-)
Correct! In December 1972 661.272, 661.273 and 661.276 were lost at sea off the coast of Newfoundland from the deck of "MV Rumba".
3 replacement locos of the same numbers were later shipped at replacements.
> I've been told that a shipment of new 661's from USA to Yugoslavia was lost at
sea back in the early 60's.
> Can anyone confirm this, and can anyone eventually supply me with the unit
numbers (or which numbers they were intended to have)that was lost ?
> If known, I am also very interested in why, where, which vessel and so on :-)
Correct! In December 1972 661.272, 661.273 and 661.276 were lost at sea off the
coast of Newfoundland from the deck of "MV Rumba".
3 replacement locos of the same numbers were later shipped at replacements.
Hi
I've been told that a shipment of new 661's from USA to Yugoslavia was lost at
sea back in the early 60's.
Can anyone confirm this, and can anyone eventually supply me with the unit
numbers (or which numbers they were intended to have)that was lost ?
If known, I am also very interested in why, where, which vessel and so on :-)
Best regards
Christian Bruun
Maybe we could give them some of our bucket 158's then Philip..
Bob Brown
--- On Sun, 7/6/09, Philip Wormald <pwormald@...> wrote:
From: Philip Wormald <pwormald@...> Subject: [balkrail-l] BDZ, Plovdiv severe DMU shortage To: balkrail-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 3:40 PM
The sheets for Plovdiv depot for tomorrow (Monday 8 June) show ALL trains on both the branches to Peshtera and Panagiurishte as being hauled with either 07019 or 07020. They must be short of Desiro DMU!
The sheets for Plovdiv depot for tomorrow (Monday 8 June) show ALL trains on
both the branches to Peshtera and Panagiurishte as being hauled with either
07019 or 07020. They must be short of Desiro DMU!
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