I need a ruling on this, Chuck.  Is it supposed to be rainwear?  If it is, I
need to move the folders.

Shane

----- Original Message -----
From: "woodswoman" <woodswoman2001@...>
To: <backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [backpackgeartesters] EDIT-Gail Staisil- OR Celestial Jacket


> Heather,
> I hope your "move" went well. I just uploaded my
> report to the permanent folder and deleted the test
> folder. I noticed that both the Celestial Jacket and
> Pants are under the Clothing heading rather than
> Rainwear. I guess I was kind of surprised as they both
> are waterproof items and the test call was marketed as
> rainwear I believe, but maybe there's another reason
> for it. Just thought I would mention this in the event
> that it has to be changed. I know there is a different
> monitor for the pants too.
>
> --- Heather <alekto@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gail,
>>
>> Nice job, a couple edits for ya.
>>
>> ~Heather
>> ------
>>
>> >with internal stormflap. a
>> double-sliding TorsoFlo hem-to-pit side zippers,
>>
>> EDIT: I think you wanted a comma, not a period/full
>> stop.
>>
>> >two zippered napolean pockets,
>>
>> EDIT: napoleon
>>
>> >The napolean pockets on the Celestial Jacket are
>> both
>> located on the chest area,
>>
>> EDIT: napoleon
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ***Gail***
>
> **There is a pleasure in the pathless woods** - Lord Byron
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Look....you had two chances...the Buff as a halter top
and the SportsSkirt as a minnie skirt and I didn't see
one app from you so too bad. :)

Chuck Carnes


--- Shane Steinkamp <shane@...>
wrote:

> > Yep...just you ladies will be tsting this one.
>
> So unfair...
>
> Shane
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

What Shane said.  Weather dependant items don't always work out
best.

Jason

--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
<shane@...> wrote:
>
> > Can I post a
> > very brief LTR and continue testing next season?  There just
hasn't been a
> > lot of snow in California this year.  Let me know how I should
proceed.
>
> The Bylaws allow for this.  When you run out of winter, then you
run out of
> winter.  Simple state that you did not experience suitable testing
> conditions during the LTR phase.  You may post an addendum to your
report
> next season if you wish to do so.
>
> Shane
> List Admin
>

Yes...just like I would have thought the Columbia Fast
and Lighter shell should have been under Rainwear. Jus
tmy opinion though.

Chuck

--- Shane Steinkamp <shane@...>
wrote:

> I need a ruling on this, Chuck.  Is it supposed to
> be rainwear?  If it is, I
> need to move the folders.
>
> Shane
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "woodswoman" <woodswoman2001@...>
> To: <backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [backpackgeartesters] EDIT-Gail
> Staisil- OR Celestial Jacket
>
>
> > Heather,
> > I hope your "move" went well. I just uploaded my
> > report to the permanent folder and deleted the
> test
> > folder. I noticed that both the Celestial Jacket
> and
> > Pants are under the Clothing heading rather than
> > Rainwear. I guess I was kind of surprised as they
> both
> > are waterproof items and the test call was
> marketed as
> > rainwear I believe, but maybe there's another
> reason
> > for it. Just thought I would mention this in the
> event
> > that it has to be changed. I know there is a
> different
> > monitor for the pants too.
> >
> > --- Heather <alekto@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Gail,
> >>
> >> Nice job, a couple edits for ya.
> >>
> >> ~Heather
> >> ------
> >>
> >> >with internal stormflap. a
> >> double-sliding TorsoFlo hem-to-pit side zippers,
> >>
> >> EDIT: I think you wanted a comma, not a
> period/full
> >> stop.
> >>
> >> >two zippered napolean pockets,
> >>
> >> EDIT: napoleon
> >>
> >> >The napolean pockets on the Celestial Jacket are
> >> both
> >> located on the chest area,
> >>
> >> EDIT: napoleon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ***Gail***
> >
> > **There is a pleasure in the pathless woods** -
> Lord Byron
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Yes, the LTR was uploaded April 19, 2007. The following addresses should
take you to it.



http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Gloves/Outdoor%20Research%2
0Snowline%20Mitt/Ed%20Morse/Test%20Report%20by%20Edwin%20L.%20Morse/



or: http://tinyurl.com/35fgt8



Did I leave out a step I should have done?



Ed Morse







   _____

From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shane Steinkamp
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:27 PM
To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [backpackgeartesters] BridGeT report



> I like this new report but I have a question: The e-mail shows the OR
> Snowline Mitts LTR due May 1. In the linked to report it both shows
> the LTR uploaded April 19 and due May 1.
> Either I've missed doing something or there is something I don't
> understand.
> Can you explain, please?

I think that maybe it's broken... Um... Have you actually uploaded your
LTR?

Shane
List Admin





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I spelled twelve incorrectly on my first post. I was very tired from
traveling to and from three different oceans in 10 days.

Jenn K.

--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, jetriple@... wrote:
>
> what?
>
>    -Jet->
>
> backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com wrote on 04/30/2007 11:59:27 PM:
>
> > Ha that is supposed to be twelve packages. Jet lag is my excuse.
> >
> > Jenn K.
> >
> > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn K."
<jennksnowy@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The Clif Shot Blocks arrived. Tweleve packages.
> > > Jenn K.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The first edit you recommend is actually an automatic insertion by the BGT
report writer over which I have no control.

   All others done.

   Rosaleen Sullivan <rosaleen43@...> wrote:
           Hi, Tim-

Thanks for getting your report in a bit early and handling what could be a
distasteful subject in a tasteful manner. One thing about this new format is
that it gives us a chance to review what may have been overlooked on earlier
passes, whether by the monitor, or by the tester in following through on edits.
Yes, that means I have a few.

Please consider my edits and upload at your earliest convenience.

Cheers!

Rosaleen
Snot Spot Monitor

SNOT SPOT
TEST SERIES BY TIM TESSIER
IR

***Edit: I recommend spelling out Initial Report here for the benefit of those
not yet familiar with BGT terms.

(SNIP)

My initial use of the Hand Spot was on a four mile walk on a sunny 30 F
(-1C) day.

****EDIT: For uniformity, please insert a space between -1 and C.

The product fit comfortably over my hand and the tabs held
it firmly in place around my wrist while I was holding a dog leash with
the same hand. After the first five minutes I honestly forgot that it
was there until I needed it. The fleece is comfortable, stretchy, and
lightweight. When used I noticed that the fleece is quite soft and
comfortable on my nose.

<<IMAGE GOES HERE. ALT TEXT = "IMAGE 2">>
Your use does leave a streak that can be seen in the sunlight.

****EDIT: "Your use" shows projection. If you drop the "your" and just go with
"Use ("Usage" sounds better to me.) does leave a streak..." the message is the
same.

(SNIP)

SUMMARY

My initial impression is that this is a well thought out, useful product
that is also well made. I look forward to throroughly testing it in a
variety of conditions.

****EDIT: It seems one of us overlooked this in the Initial Report phase.
"Thoroughly" is misspelled. When you upload the combined report, please fix
this.

(SNIP)

As the days would get warmer I would remove the gloves and switch to the
Hand Spot. The Hand Spot would stay firmly where I wanted it to be,
thanks to the hook and loop fasteners around the wrist. After just a
few minutes of wear I would generally forget that it was there, until I
needed it. The Hand Spot would become obviously used by the end of the
day, but you could take your hand and vigorously rub the back of it and
the streaks left by it's use would disappear.

****EDIT: Ah, the dreaded projection issue rears its ugly head. Change the you
and your to I and my and you will be OK here. Also, in this case, it's should be
its, the possessive, not the contraction for it is.

The fabric remained soft and pliable throughout. Not once, even when I
had a cold, were my nasal passages chafed, or made uncomfortable by use
of this product.

****EDIT: Someone will shoot me down if I am wrong, but I take "nasal passages"
to mean up higher in the nose than you are able to reach with the back of your
hand. (Well, assuming your nares are of normal size.) Consider nose or nasal
area, as such chafing can extend towards one's upper lip and as well as
involving the nose itself.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Congrats to the following testers for being selected to test the
Bushnell ONIX GPS:

Chuck Carnes
Becki Stacy
Will Rietveld

Thanks to all who applied and to TV for managing the test!

Jason B
Bushnell Mod

Supposed to ship early this month.. Since the Micron's shipped I am
optimistic that the ETA's will as well.  Feel free to apply for the Fry
Pan in case something does happen.

Jason


--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "richardglyon" <rlyon@...>
wrote:
>
> Jason,
> Do you have an update on the ETA stoves? I'd like to apply for the
> Jetboil frying pan but won't if this test is still on. Richard
> --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Boyle" <c4jc88@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Talked with our Primus Rep this week.  The Micron Ti should ship
> next
> > week, the ETA stoves are delayed probably until the end of april.
> >
> > Jason B
> >
>

> --- Shane Steinkamp <shane@...>
> wrote:
>
> > > Yep...just you ladies will be tsting this one.
> >
> > So unfair...
> >
> > Shane
>
--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Carnes
<ctcarnes1@...> wrote:
>
> Look....you had two chances...the Buff as a halter top
> and the SportsSkirt as a minnie skirt and I didn't see
> one app from you so too bad. :)

AaaaahhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuzzy

Hi Rami, here is an easy one unfortunately. The HTML may be found
here;

http://tinyurl.com/2qrql6

LONG-TERM REPORT

Field Conditions

Since the conclusion of the field test I have barely had enough snow
to put the Explores on. Minnesota has had a very strange winter,
including a record breaking day that saw temps hit a high of 70 F (21
C) in early March. I took them on a backpacking trip that never saw
them off my pack. We got two storms in April that dumped a total of
about 10 in (25 cm) outside of town and I ran out to use the Explores
once more. (Three days later it was gone again.) Temps were in the
upper 30s F (3 C) both trips. Here is a pic of them hitching a ride
on my pack.

Observations

As mentioned above I just did not get to use the Explores anywhere
near what I expected to. I hope that next winter we will see more and
I can get out on some longer trips with them.

The flotation has proven to be quite adequate. I never had any
problem with the Explores not providing enough support even in fresh
powder. There is plenty of deck to keep me afloat. I feel that these
shoes make a fine snow shoe for flatter terrain. I want a little more
traction for mountainous country, but Redfeather does not position
these for that anyway.

Except for the chipped areas from before I got them, I have not had
any durability issues with the Explores. The deck is still taut, all
rivets are still in and tight, and the straps are still in good
condition. There is some rust on the crampons now where the coating
was chipped. The frame is still straight and true.

The crampons worked well in the stuff I used it in. I like the plate
above them. My boots did not slip off of it, and I like the hinge
much better than the type that flex with the decking. It seems to
allow for much more natural walking.

Besides the problem I had with the shoe tracking funny, the only
thing that I did not care for on the shoe was the strap system. The
nylon straps get quite fouled up from snow and ice and are hard to
adjust or even take off at times. They did not give me a feeling of
security either. I think that the addition of urethane bindings would
improve this immensely.

I would like to thank Redfeather and BackpackGearTest.org for letting
me test the Explore snowshoes.

Sorry Jen.  I was being glib.  I saw "Jet" and thought you were talking to
me.  Then I saw "Jet Lag" and thought I had done something wrong.  Not
really, of course... just yanking your chain a little...

I'll go to time-out now.  Sorry for the bandwidth.

Jet

backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com wrote on 05/01/2007 04:26:24 PM:

> I spelled twelve incorrectly on my first post. I was very tired from
> traveling to and from three different oceans in 10 days.
>
> Jenn K.
>
> --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, jetriple@... wrote:
> >
> > what?
> >
> >    -Jet->
> >
> > backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com wrote on 04/30/2007 11:59:27 PM:
> >
> > > Ha that is supposed to be twelve packages. Jet lag is my excuse.
> > >
> > > Jenn K.
> > >
> > > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn K."
> <jennksnowy@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Clif Shot Blocks arrived. Tweleve packages.
> > > > Jenn K.
> > > >
> > >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

re EDIT: IR Primus Micron Ti 2.5--Wheiler

> > In particular, Primus states, "This
> > appliance shall be used exclusively with Primus Propane/Butane mix
> > cartridges 2202, 2206 and 2207."
> Edit: Good information. If you're going to use it though, can we get
> clarification on the different types of cartridges?

Speaking now purely as a stove enthusiast, not as an Editor:

My understanding is that all screw-thread stoves are required (by safety
regulations) to operate correctly with all brands of screw-thread canister
fuel. I would personally encourage people to test a stove with all brands
locally available, to reflect reality.

As an example of why, I have found small differences in the screw-thread
fittings, such that a few combinations of stove and canister leak gas as
they are being connected together. There is a hiss for a moment as the two
are screwed together, and you can smell the gas. The combinations operate
happily and safely once properly connected, but it means you do NOT leave
stove and canister loosely connected, ever! (They can leak slowly if not
done up properly.)

In another example, I found that the MSR pure isobutane canisters (not the
'iso-pro' ones) can be hazardous with some stoves as there is a risk of
flame-out. Fortunately the availability of these MSR canisters is rather
limited.

So, test with anything you can find!

Cheers
Roger Caffin

I'm BIP today and then tomorrow off again until May 19.  I will have
internet access by tomorrow night again, so nothing should be affected.
With a lot of luck, I'll get my edits done tonight for the Montrail Namche
boots done tonight.  Hang on Ernie and Tom.

John Waters

Congrats to the following testers for being selected to test the
Malachowski KOSZULKA FIRST LAYER GUIDE PRO:

Ralph Ditton
Joanne Walker
Andre Corterier

Thanks to all who applied and to Coy for managing the test.

Jason B
Malachowski Mod

Jo Ann helped me find the MSRP where I had one missing. Please edit this revised
IR
instead. HTML can be found here: http://snipurl.com/1izh3


ALPINEAIRE FOODS
Initial Report - April 30, 2007



Initial Report: April 30, 2007
TESTER BIOGRAPHY
Name: Sheila Morrissey
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Height: 5 ft 8 in (1.7 m)
Weight: 150 lb (68 kg)
Email Address: geosheila(at)yahoo(dot)com
City, State, Country: Goleta, California, USA

Backpacking Background: I have been hiking and camping since I was born, but
only
started backpacking in 2005. I usually hike with friends and my dog, Patch, in
the eastern
Sierra or Los Padres National Forest. My pack is usually around 25 pounds (11
kg),
including consumables. While on the trail, I nearly always eat a hot meal for
dinner and
occasionally also for breakfast.

PRODUCT INFORMATION
Manufacturer: TyRy, Inc.
Manufacturer's Website: http://www.tyry.com

MEAL COOK/NO COOK
INSTRUCTIONS LISTED WEIGHT MEASURED WEIGHT MSRP Servings
Mountain Chili No cook: add boiling water, stir, let stand 6 oz (170 g)
	 6.9 oz (195 g)
US$ 8.99 2
Pepper Steak w/ Rice No cook: add boiling water, stir, let stand 6 oz (172 g)
	 7.1 oz (201 g) US$ 6.75 2
Chicken Dijon No cook: add boiling water, stir, let stand 7.25 oz (206 g)
	 8.25 oz (234 g) US$ 6.75 2
Bandito Scramble Cooking required: add cook water, stir, let stand, cook "as you
would
fresh eggs" 3.25 oz (99 g) 4.4 oz (125 g) US$ 5.23 2
Chocolate Mudslide Pie (labeled "Chocolate Mud Slide Pie" on website)
	 No cook: add cold water, let stand 5.75 oz (162 g) 6.9 oz (196 g)
	 US$ 4.50 2

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
From Manufacturer's Website:
"Naturally Good Food Anytime/Anywhere"

"AlpineAire foods has been producing quality freeze-dried, dehydrated and
ready-to-eat
instant meals, side dishes, breakfasts, soups and desserts for over 21 years.
These foods
are all natural and retain over 98% of the nutritional content, 100% of the
fiber, and have
an extendable shelf life. AlpineAire foods are the lightest, tastiest, and
easiest to prepare
food for any occasion, whether it be camping, backpacking, hunting, and
long-term food
storage. They have a shelf life of up to 15 years! Food systems are available in
100%, 75%,
or 50% no cook options."

From Product Packaging (Bandito Scramble, Chicken Dijon and Chocolate Mudslide
Pie):
"Since 1979 AlpineAire Foods has been an industry leader producing top quality
foods.
AlpineAire Foods never adds preservatives, colors, flavors or MSG to its
recipies. Even the
most discriminating people have come to trust AlpineAire Foods in producing
fresh
tasting, easy to prepare meals. Our products are packaged in easy to carry,
lightweight,
extra strength foil pouches which ensure freshness.

SHELF LIFE
We nitrogen flush our products, which helps promote a three to five year
shelf-life from
the date of purchase -- provided they are stored in a cool, dry environment.

ADVANTAGES
Easy to prepare -- Simply add boiling water to this pouch (in most recipes),
stir, seal, then
eat (refer to specific directions below).
No added Artificial Flavors, Preservatives, Colors, or MSG.
VERSATILITY
Lunch or Dinner
Backpacking
Marine
Camping
Fishing
Expeditions
RV Traveling
Emergencies
Compact Storage
CONVENIENCE
Our pouches are designed for preparation and consumption directly in the bag
when on
the trail. We suggest taking a long-handled spoon on your trip for preparing and
consuming our product."

From Product Packaging (Pepper Steak w/Rice and Mountain Chili):
"Since 1979 AlpineAire Foods has been an industry leader producing top quality
foods.
AlpineAire Foods never adds preservatives, artificial flavors, colors, or MSG to
its recipies.
Even the most discriminating people have come to trust AlpineAire Foods in
producing
fresh tasting, easy to prepare meal (sic). Our products are packaged in
lightweight, extra
strength foil pouches which ensure freshness.

VERSATILE
Prepare a hot meal in minutes
On the trail, car camping, RV traveling, boating, emergencies, our food is good
to go!
We suggest a long-handled spoon for preparing and consuming our product.
GOURMET
Original seasonings & sauces, high quality freeze-dried meats, fancy vegetables
and
unique pastas and rice
Over 85 great tasting entrees, sides, lunch items and desserts
CONVENIENT
Easy to prepare -- Simply add boiling water to the pouch (most recipes), stir,
seal, & enjoy.
Lightweight, easy to pack for camping or emergencies
LONG SHELF LIFE
3 to 5 years if stored in cool dry location.
Oxygen absorber in every package extends shelf life.
Durable laminated foil pouches.
My Description:
Each of the meals has one of the above generalized instructions on the back of
its tamper-
proof, resealable foil pouch. A label on the front indicates whether cooking is
required, the
number of servings, the type of meal and the weight. The Chicken Dijon and
Pepper Steak
meals also have a US Department of Agriculture "inspected" seal. On the back of
the
packages, they each have a sticker with the meal type, nutrition facts,
instructions and
ingredients. Three of the meals also have a "best by" and "lot #" stamp. The
other two
meals have this information imprinted at the top of the packaging.

INITIAL IMPRESSIONS
Since all of the packages are essentially the same and without a photo of the
meal, I no
idea what these meals will look like. The ingredients lists (photographs below)
seem
neither appealing nor unappealing to me. They do seem to be rather generous
portions,
which means my dog might get special treat leftovers if I backpack with a vegan
friend. I
figured the AlpineAire meals that I am testing would all be pouched meals, but
from the
AlpineAire Website, it wasn't clear to me whether they would be no-cook meals
that just
need to be heated up or meals requiring a little more cooking time. The
instructions are
clear, however, on the individual packages. I'm glad that they can all be cooked
in their
pouches. I will try to remember their suggested long-handled spoon when I bring
these
meals backpacking. I'm also quite pleased to see that they are all in resealable
pouches.
That will create less mess in my pack, though just to be safe, I will put my
sealed, used
pouches in a plastic bag to make sure nothing spills on my gear.



REMARKS
This concludes my Initial Report. I'm going to start eating the AlpineAire meals
on my
upcoming trips and the Field Report will be amended to this report in July 2007.
Please
check back then for further information. Thank you to TyRy, Inc. and
BackpackGearTest.org for providing me with the opportunity to test these
backpacking
meals.

Read more gear reviews by Sheila Morrissey

The Outdoor Research W's Paradox Jacket test is now complete! You can read the
test reports here: http://teststatus.backpackgeartest.org/link1652.htm or here:
<http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Jackets/Outdoor Research
Paradox Jacket/>

G'day.  I am BridGeT, the BGT Automation Robot working on behalf of the List
Administrator.  I am pleased to note that the above referenced test is now
complete.  Thanks to all who served on this series.  I have placed the Monitor
back into the Monitor pool, cleared the Testers, and notified the Manufacturer. 
I will continue to display this report as completed in the Test Administration
site for seven days.  After that time, I will remove it and the short link
referenced above will no longer work.

Thank you again to all who served to make this test possible.

BridGeT, Administration Automation

The Outdoor Research Men's Sequence LS Tshirt test is now complete! You can read
the test reports here: http://teststatus.backpackgeartest.org/link1661.htm or
here: <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Shirts/Outdoor Research
Mens Sequence Tee/>

G'day.  I am BridGeT, the BGT Automation Robot working on behalf of the List
Administrator.  I am pleased to note that the above referenced test is now
complete.  Thanks to all who served on this series.  I have placed the Monitor
back into the Monitor pool, cleared the Testers, and notified the Manufacturer. 
I will continue to display this report as completed in the Test Administration
site for seven days.  After that time, I will remove it and the short link
referenced above will no longer work.

Thank you again to all who served to make this test possible.

BridGeT, Administration Automation

G'day.  I am BridGeT, the BGT Automation Robot working on behalf of the List
Administrator.  This is to inform you that I have updated the BGT Test Status
site.  The BGT Test Status Site is: http://teststatus.backpackgeartest.org/

You should also check the individual Administration pages for Administration
Messages.
TESTER ADMINISTRATION: http://teststatus.backpackgeartest.org/ADMIN5.htm
MONITOR ADMINISTRATION: http://teststatus.backpackgeartest.org/ADMIN4.htm

Please notify the List Administrator of any error in the data I have reported.

I performed the following output tasks in 32.98 seconds.

272 HTML pages created.  Inlcuding:

52 Manufacturer detail pages.
93 Tester detail pages.
43 Monitor detail pages.
14 Moderator detail pages.
60 Short links for report.
Several one-shot administration pages are not included in my log counts.

2 Monitors were assigned to tests.
5 Manufacturers were notified of test progress.
6 Tester Reminder emails were sent.
2 Late Test Report Notification emails were sent.
30 Monitor Status emails were sent.
2 Monitor Test Completion emails were sent.
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Enjoy!

BridGeT, List Administration Automation

Application to test the Jetboil Fry Pan and Utensil Kit.

Applicant: Coy Starnes
Gender: Male
Age: 45
Weight 236 lb. (107 kg.)
Height 6 ft. (1.83 m.)
E-Mail: starnescr@... (starnescr at yahoo dot com)
Location: Northeast Alabama (Grant)

I have read the latest version (v. 0609) of the Survival
Guide,especially chapters 4, 5, and 6 and I agree to abide by all
rules and requirements set forth. My signed Tester Agreement is on
file with BGT. I will meet the minimum nights required (5).

Brief Bio: I am an avid outdoorsman and enjoy hiking, backpacking,
hunting, canoeing, caving, and spending as much time outdoors as
possible. I live in northeast Alabama where I do most of my
backpacking and hiking. I hike solo and with friends and family. I go
hiking throughout the year but sometimes wimp out of actually
backpacking in midsummer when the heat and humidity make the trail
miserable.

My style is slow and steady. My shelter of choice is a hammock (the
Contrail if it ships) and I cook with an alcohol stove or wood stove
(subject to change...). I have made great strides in becoming a
lightweight backpacker but I still choose gear with an eye towards
comfort and durability. My pack weight is around 25 lb (11 kg) for
most summer 2 and 3 day trips. However, in the winter my pack weight
climbs considerably, not only in weight but in bulk as well.

Application

I would be pleased to be one of the testers for the Fry Pan and
Utensil Kit.  I understand that this will be a 2 separate report
series, one for the fry pan and one for the utensil kit.  In my
WildWood 1 stove test ( http://tinyurl.com/yvdcd6 ) I rediscovered the
simple pleasure of cooking bacon and eggs while out in the field.  I
used an old flaking teflon skillet snuck out of the house which I hear
is dangerous. Which one? Sneaking stuff out of the house of flaking
teflon?  Both!!!  Anyways, while that skillet was OK to pack, a
skillet designed for packing (ie no handle sticking out full time)
would have been more convenient (and safer).  This test also includes
a spatula, and while I have a backpacking spatula, I found it severely
mismatched for flipping eggs.  I ended up sneaking one from the
kitchen as well.  I like to live dangerously...  So, this test could
make my kitchen raids a thing of the past.  I would be happy...my wife
would be happier!  And while I use an alcohol stove, it is not a good
candidate for meals that need controlled heat or extended cooking time.

First and foremost.  I do not have the JETBOIL GCS.  I am however,
familiar with canister stoves.   It is my understanding that one luck
tester will be supplied with the GCS.  I have read the reports on BGT
and heard elsewhere how great the Jetboil works.  I also note that the
GCS will work with bigger pans (quote from website: In addition the
GCS can also be used with traditional flat-bottomed cookware) while
the PCS requires the purchase of the Pot Support and Stabilizer.  If
needed for this test I will purchase one but if I read the site
correctly the GCS has this already or does not need it.

My Test Plan for the Fry Pan
For the fry pan it will be fairly simple.  I will cook as many
backpacking meals as possible which call for a fry pan.  I will forgo
my "boil water only" meals for my upcoming trips unless absolutely
necessacary.  This should be fairly easy as I will cook bacon and eggs
for the first morning and possibly a stir fry type meal for supper.  I
will even attempt to cook lunch on the trail as apposed to my normal
habit of just eating snacks during the day.  As I use the fry pan I
will note how stable it is. While I expect to hold on to the handle
while turning my eggs, I don't want any surprises.  I have experienced
dinner on the ground several times and it is no fun.  I will report on
how well the handle works.  Does it get to hot to hold without a rag?
  Is it well designed for storage?

I will also be checking for how well the foods cook.  In other words,
does the fry pan heat evenly or will it scorch food in the center?
Will foods stick?  I am pretty good at making stove top cornbread at
home and will attempt to do so in the field.  To do so requires a
quick flip.  Any sticking ruins this.   Of course any sticking or
scorching is partly a results of the stove so I will describe the
flame pattern if I do have problems. I am also not real familiar with
the FluxRing® technology which claims to more evenly distribute heat.
  I will admit, it looks like a great design on paper but I will report
on actual results. In a similar vain, is the fry pan efficient fuel wise?

After cooking comes the often dreaded chore of clean up.  Many pans
utilize some type of coating to help in cleanup.  The website makes no
mention of any coating but does say the 1.5 liter pot for the GCS is
hard anodized.  I will attempt to find out exactly what the fry pan is
made of and report this.

I will report on the packability of the fry pan.  It looks like it
might replace the lid part of the 1.5 Liter pot used in the GCS.
Perhaps it will stack over that lid?  Whichever the case may be, I
will report on any packing issues I may have and what works best for
packing. The plastic cover looks like it is designed to protect the
FluxRing®.  It says it is also useful for food preparation and as a
plate.   I will test it for both.

And lastly I will report on any durability issues that might arise.  I
am pretty careful with my gear but cooking gear is subjected to high
heat just by the nature of the beast.  Is the handle up to lifting a
heavy meal (I do eat a lot).

My Test Plan for the Utensil Kit
I will use the utensil kit for the cooking as outlined in the fry pan
test plan.  I will be especially interested in the usefulness of the
spatula. Is it big enough to flip eggs or pancakes?  The website
mentions the spatula matches the contours of the fry pan.  Is this
important?

I will report on how well the telescoping handles connect to the
buisness end of the fork, spoon and spatula.  I will report on how I
like the fork for eating food, as some backpacking forks just don't
seem to work right.  Same for the spoon.  I will report on the ease of
cleaning and ease of storage.  The website says the slots in the
spatula match the fluxring.  I assume this is for storage?  Is it
intended to be stored separate from the fork and spoon?  The utensils
are made of nylon.  Will there be any heat related issues?  Will there
be any other type of damage or durability issues?

Summary
Basically, I will use the Fry Pan and Utensil Kit for the duration of
the test period. I will give both a thorough test. I may see other
things not mentioned above that I feel are important to mention.  As
always I will report all my finding as fairly and completely as
possible.


Anticipated Testing Locations.
I will be making several short overnight hikes and a few longer hikes
over the next 4 months. I will be testing in the southeaster
US with trips into the local mountains of Tennessee, Georgia, and
North Carolina. I will be seeking altitude and cooler weather for
testing the Lost Ranger (another test in progress). However, most
testing would be done in Northeast Alabama. Elevations will generally
be less than 4000 ft (1219 m).

Temperatures will most likely be above freezing. The southeast is
known for rainy springs and dry summers.

Here are 2 examples of some of my reports.

Princeton Tec Yukon HL Long Term Report
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Lighting/Headlamps%20-%20LED/Princeton%2\
0Tec%20Yukon%20HL/Coy%20Starnes/Long%20Term%
20Report/

or http://tinyurl.com/6d8hs

Gregory Z-Pack Field Report
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Internal%20and%20External%20Framed\
%20Backpacks/Gregory%20Z-Pack/Coy%20Starnes/Field%20Report/

or http://tinyurl.com/2wp2v

All my reviews may be found here.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/tester_reviews/Coy%20Boy


I am currently testing 3 items and awaiting a forth. No other apps
fielded at this time.

1. OR M's Skye Pants Now in FR stage (LTR due June 19 2007)

2. Big Agnes Lost Ranger (FR due June 19 2007)

3 Big Agnes Dual Core air mattress. (FR due June 19 2007)

4. HENRY SHIRES CONTRAIL (awaiting shipment)

I have also submitted six owner reviews:
Two for my Hennessy Original hammock
Petzl Tikka Head Lamp
Raovac Sportsman 3 in 1 headlamp
REI Down Time 0 Degree sleeping bag
Sony P72 camera

Thanks for the considering me for this test.

The Celestial Jacket is a rain jacket. If it isn't under rain gear then it
needs to be moved.

Jerry


http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
reviews and tests on the planet.

-----Original Message-----
From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Carnes
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:23 PM
To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [backpackgeartesters] ADMIN: CHUCK CARNES: OR Celestial Jacket

Yes...just like I would have thought the Columbia Fast and Lighter shell
should have been under Rainwear. Jus tmy opinion though.

Chuck

--- Shane Steinkamp <shane@...>
wrote:

> I need a ruling on this, Chuck.  Is it supposed to be rainwear?  If it
> is, I need to move the folders.
>
> Shane
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "woodswoman" <woodswoman2001@...>
> To: <backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [backpackgeartesters] EDIT-Gail
> Staisil- OR Celestial Jacket
>
>
> > Heather,
> > I hope your "move" went well. I just uploaded my report to the
> > permanent folder and deleted the
> test
> > folder. I noticed that both the Celestial Jacket
> and
> > Pants are under the Clothing heading rather than Rainwear. I guess I
> > was kind of surprised as they
> both
> > are waterproof items and the test call was
> marketed as
> > rainwear I believe, but maybe there's another
> reason
> > for it. Just thought I would mention this in the
> event
> > that it has to be changed. I know there is a
> different
> > monitor for the pants too.
> >
> > --- Heather <alekto@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Gail,
> >>
> >> Nice job, a couple edits for ya.
> >>
> >> ~Heather
> >> ------
> >>
> >> >with internal stormflap. a
> >> double-sliding TorsoFlo hem-to-pit side zippers,
> >>
> >> EDIT: I think you wanted a comma, not a
> period/full
> >> stop.
> >>
> >> >two zippered napolean pockets,
> >>
> >> EDIT: napoleon
> >>
> >> >The napolean pockets on the Celestial Jacket are
> >> both
> >> located on the chest area,
> >>
> >> EDIT: napoleon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ***Gail***
> >
> > **There is a pleasure in the pathless woods** -
> Lord Byron
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey Rick.

Sorry took me till tonight to get to this. Lots of catching up after
returning.

As usual:
EDIT: Change me
Edit: Think about changing me
Comment: Everything else


AB
___________________________

>Listed Weight: "2.5 oz" (69 g)
EDIT: Why the quotes?

>description, the stove will boil 2 cups of water in 4 minutes and a
EDIT: Conversion for 2 cups?

>small (100 g) LPGas cartridge will boil 6.5 L of water or will burn for
EDIT: Conversion for 6.5 L?

>The stove is built of aluminum castings and a number of stamped titanium
>alloy parts.
Comment: How does the stove fold? Does it look durable to you? Just a few of
my own questions as I'm interested in this stove myself.

>slight breeze and a half pot of water came to a boil fairly quickly with
Edit: Can you elaborate on "half pot" My pot size and yours may be
different.

_______
Visit Corridor9.net
Blogging about BackpackGearTest, Hiking, Firefighting, and Linux
http://www.corridor9.net

rayestrella1 wrote:
> Hi Rami, here is an easy one unfortunately. The HTML may be found
> here;
>
[[R:]]
Hi Ray,
Sorry about your lack of winter.  It was a weird one here too.

No edits for you, please upload at will.

thanks for the good work.

-r

Thank you for the quick turn around Rami. It has been a pleasure
working with you on this test.

Ray

I've not experienced a canister stove setup before, so this information is
new to me. Thanks for posting this Roger. It will definitely help me in my
own testing period.

AB


> My understanding is that all screw-thread stoves are required (by
> safety
> regulations) to operate correctly with all brands of screw-thread
> canister
> fuel. I would personally encourage people to test a stove with all
> brands
> locally available, to reflect reality.
>
> Cheers
> Roger Caffin

Alright, before I make my edits on this report, lets talk about this a bit.  My
intent in writing what I did was to state that Primus could have chosen any
number of words with regard to the type of fuel to use with the Micron Ti.  It
could have said "this appliance may be used with" or "this appliance can be used
with", etc.  Instead, Primus chose, "this appliance shall be used exclusively
with Primus Propane/Butane mix cartridges...."  In my profession, no matter
where you practice, shall means it is mandatory--there is no option.  The hang
tag on the stove says, "Use only with Primus LP gas cartridges...."  While not
quite as strong, the use of the word only indicates that there are no other
options.  Not even us lawyers can realistically weasel around words like shall,
exclusively, and only.

On the other hand, like you, I am aware that the literature indicating that the
EN417 canister spec and the Lindal self-sealing valve are standard specs adopted
internationally in the stove/canister industry.  Therefore, in theory, all
brands of screw-threaded canister fuel should work on any brand of
screw-threaded stove.  Thus, despite Primus' mandate, an MSR or Brunton fuel
canister should work just as well as the Primus fuel canister.  We've all
probably read articles reporting on stove testing in which the same type of fuel
was used on different types of stoves trying to provide the same testing
conditions for each stove.  No reports of explosions or other problems were
noted.  I also suspect that most of us will admit to at least experimenting with
a canister fuel not of the same manufacture as the stove.  With some caution, I
personally believe that using a different brand fuel canister will work safely.

However, that isn't really the issue in my mind.  We are testing a product for a
manufacturer and will be writing a report on that product which hopefully will
be read by a number of prospective purchasers/users of the product.  Even
showing pictures in the report of the stove attached to a different brand of
fuel suggests to the reader that a different brand of fuel can be safely used
with the stove.  Do we, as a group, want to report on the use of a brand of fuel
in direct contradiction of the manufacturer's instructions?

Do we want the responsibility (note I did not use the word liability as I
perceive that to be a different issue) associated with reporting on a use of the
product contrary to the manufacturer's instructions?  For example, if a user
attempts to use an different brand of fuel canister with the stove and it
catches fire or explodes (whether because of the fuel canister or a defect in
the stove and/or canister), where does that leave both the manufacturer and the
product user?  The manufacturer will say, "we specifically told you in the most
direct way we could not to use any type of fuel but ours.  You have no claim
(whether for personal injury or property damage or product replacement) against
us for using that type of fuel with our stove.  You misused our stove."  The
product user will say, "but we read a review about your stove and the tester
used different types of fuel without any problems.  Since the tester was
reporting on your product, we thought it would be ok to use different fuel
despite your warning."  Whether we are ultimately involved in the litigation,
BGT will be in the middle.  How will this impact the decision of other
manufacturers to let us test their gear?

Now, all this being said, I am willing to test the Micron Ti using different
fuel canisters and report on my findings.  There may, in fact, be canisters that
won't work with the stove and some other mixtures of fuel may work better than
the Primus mixture.  Some users, like me, may find it difficult to obtain Primus
fuel and will need to use another brand.  But, I think this is a policy question
that deserves a little thought and comment before I try to blow myself up (just
kidding).  Let me know what you all think.  In the mean time, I'll make the
other less complicated edits on the report.

Mike Wheiler

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Edit: Redfeather Pace Snowshoes
Tester: Gail Staisil
Edited by Coy Starnes
May 1, 2007

Hi Gail,  I could not find anything to edit.  It has been a pleasure
working with you on this one.  Please upload when you get a chance.

Coy Boy
PS:  You do get your share of snow!


--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, woodswoman
<woodswoman2001@...> wrote:
>
> Coy,
> Here is my LTR for the Redfeather Pace Snowshoes. This
> was a very fun test!
>
>
> HTML:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3a3lbs
>

http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
reviews and tests on the planet.

-----Original Message-----
From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wheiler
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:39 PM
To: backpackgeartesters
Cc: Andrew Priest; Andrew Buskov
Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: EDIT: IR Primus Micron Ti 2.5--Wheiler

Alright, before I make my edits on this report, lets talk about this a bit.
My intent in writing what I did was to state that Primus could have chosen
any number of words with regard to the type of fuel to use with the Micron
Ti.  It could have said "this appliance may be used with" or "this appliance
can be used with", etc.  Instead, Primus chose, "this appliance shall be
used exclusively with Primus Propane/Butane mix cartridges...."  In my
profession, no matter where you practice, shall means it is mandatory--there
is no option.  The hang tag on the stove says, "Use only with Primus LP gas
cartridges...."  While not quite as strong, the use of the word only
indicates that there are no other options.  Not even us lawyers can
realistically weasel around words like shall, exclusively, and only.

### You, as a lawyer, should understand why it was written this way.....to
make the company lawyers happy....   ;o) What ever standards may exist, the
company is only going to be responsible for the performance of the stove if
you use their canisters. Of course they are going to say that....the lawyers
made them say it.

Customer convenience has nothing to do with it. It is simply the result of a
litigious society.

The second issue is marketing. Of course they are going to say you have to
use their fuel, just like Mac tries to make you use their music service. The
profit on the stove is nothing compared to the profit on 10 years or so of
fuel purchases.

Lastly, every stove instruction manual I've ever seen says you can only use
the fuel made by the stove manufacturer........###

On the other hand, like you, I am aware that the literature indicating that
the EN417 canister spec and the Lindal self-sealing valve are standard specs
adopted internationally in the stove/canister industry.  Therefore, in
theory, all brands of screw-threaded canister fuel should work on any brand
of screw-threaded stove.  Thus, despite Primus' mandate, an MSR or Brunton
fuel canister should work just as well as the Primus fuel canister.  We've
all probably read articles reporting on stove testing in which the same type
of fuel was used on different types of stoves trying to provide the same
testing conditions for each stove.  No reports of explosions or other
problems were noted.  I also suspect that most of us will admit to at least
experimenting with a canister fuel not of the same manufacture as the stove.
With some caution, I personally believe that using a different brand fuel
canister will work safely.

### Yuppers. ###

However, that isn't really the issue in my mind.  We are testing a product
for a manufacturer and will be writing a report on that product which
hopefully will be read by a number of prospective purchasers/users of the
product.  Even showing pictures in the report of the stove attached to a
different brand of fuel suggests to the reader that a different brand of
fuel can be safely used with the stove.  Do we, as a group, want to report
on the use of a brand of fuel in direct contradiction of the manufacturer's
instructions?

### Well, we are supposed to be reporting real world experiences. In the
real world people are probably going to be using what ever fuel is available
to them. ###

Do we want the responsibility (note I did not use the word liability as I
perceive that to be a different issue) associated with reporting on a use of
the product contrary to the manufacturer's instructions?  For example, if a
user attempts to use an different brand of fuel canister with the stove and
it catches fire or explodes (whether because of the fuel canister or a
defect in the stove and/or canister), where does that leave both the
manufacturer and the product user?  The manufacturer will say, "we
specifically told you in the most direct way we could not to use any type of
fuel but ours.  You have no claim (whether for personal injury or property
damage or product replacement) against us for using that type of fuel with
our stove.  You misused our stove."  The product user will say, "but we read
a review about your stove and the tester used different types of fuel
without any problems.  Since the tester was reporting on your product, we
thought it would be ok to use different fuel despite your warning."  Whether
we are ultimately involved in the litigation, BGT will be in the middle.
How will this impact the decision of other manufacturers to let us test
their gear?

### Personally, if they don't want to test with us because we use their
product in the same way that the vast majority of people will use it then I
guess we won't be testing with them.

As far as liability is concerned, I have the best defense possible....no
assets. No lawyer in his right mind would go after me. I'm a 100% disable
vet so they can't attach my wages and I don't own anything worth much so
basically they could knock themselves out......   ;o)

Lawyers rarely sue people that have no assets.....   =o)  ###

Jerry

Darn it!!  I wanted to apply for this one.  Too much happening for me
at the end of the month I guess.  Oh well, bring on the next fun
looking thing.
jamie d

--- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Carnes
<ctcarnes1@...> wrote:
>
> The Buff test call is officially closed. Selections
> will be made soon.
>
> Chuck Carnes
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Sheila,

Nice looking report!  Just a couple of minor corrections and you are good to
post in the appropriate folder.  Please remember to delete your HTML file from
the test folder.

Please remember:

EDIT = Mandatory Fix
Edit = Recommended Fix
Comment = Suggestion, incorporate at your discretion


Comment:  <Backpacking Background:>  Personally, I would like to see this as a
heading, in the same size font as "TESTER BIOGRAPHY"

EDIT: <Nutritional Facts>  It appears you took this graphic from the company
website.  Please visibly acknowledge the source in your report.

That's it.  Again, once you've made the corrections, you are free to post in the
correct folder.

See you in two months or so.  Enjoy.

Ryan L. Christensen


"Excellence is not an act, but a habit."  Aristotle




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]