Tonight, Evan Nappen, Free State Project Vice
President and Gun Rights Liaison, will be answering
questions about the Free State Project and gun rights
in New Hampshire. Mr. Nappen is a gun rights author
and practicing firearms attorney in the State of New
Jersey who is dubbed “The Gun Law Guru". Please bring
your questions and join us at
http://freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to
see you there!
Chat Schedule for upcoming weeks:
* Monday December 6th, 9pm ET, Q & A Session with
Evan Nappen, Free State Project Vice President and Gun
Rights Liaison
* Tuesday December 14th, 9pm ET, Liaisons workshop
with Chris Harrison, FSP Liaisons Director
* Tuesday December 21st, 9pm ET, Q & A Session with
Jason Sorens, FSP Founder and Chairman of the Board
* Thursday December 30th, 9pm ET, FSP Social Club
Chat -- just for fun.
* Thursday January 6th, 2005, 9pm ET Local Groups
Workshop with Keith Murphy, FSP Local Groups Director
Location for all chat sessions will be:
http://freestateproject.org/chat
Previous chat transcripts are available at:
http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/
Resources used during these sessions can be found at:
http://freestateproject.org/training/
(Note: backup chat site at
http://www.soulawakenings.com/chat)
=====
It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. -
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki
__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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Tuesday evening, Chris Harrison, Free State Project
Liaisons Director, will be holding a liaisons
workshop. Please bring your questions and recruiting
ideas and join us at http://freestateproject.org/chat
at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!
Chat Schedule for upcoming weeks:
* Tuesday December 14th, 9pm ET, Liaisons workshop
with Chris Harrison, FSP Liaisons Director
* Tuesday December 21st, 9pm ET, Q & A Session with
Jason Sorens, FSP Founder and Chairman of the Board
* Thursday December 30th, 9pm ET, FSP Social Club
Chat -- just for fun.
* Thursday January 6th, 2005, 9pm ET Local Groups
Workshop with Keith Murphy, FSP Local Groups Director
Location for all chat sessions will be:
http://freestateproject.org/chat
Previous chat transcripts are available at:
http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/
Resources used during these sessions can be found at:
http://freestateproject.org/training/
(Note: backup chat site at http://www.soulawakenings.com/chat)
=====
It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. -
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki
__________________________________
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All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
This article is about Human beings, Democracy, UNHCR, Refugees, The Iraqis,
Islam, Kurds, Human rights, Respect, Money, Donations, Angelina Jolie,
Pavarotti, Giorgio Armani, Donors, Peace, History, Campaigns and about you if
you care about these words.
Hi there,
I am SAM, an Iraqi refugee living in Lebanon at the moment; I have spent the
last 9 years of my life as a refugee registered with the UNHCR in Beirut. The
last 3 years, I have spent as an activist for peace and human rights (especially
refugees and asylum seekers) on the Internet; I'm also books author and ebooks
publisher. I have launched many campaigns to improve our situation as refugees
in Lebanon and hopefully bring more understanding to our problems worldwide. I
helped make many changes and improvements at the UNHCR office in Beirut; I used
the Internet as the field for my activities (you can read more about that in my
free ebook ‘MY CAMPAIGNS’ http://www.unhcr.co.uk/truth/free_ebooks.htm ).
My latest campaign is to stop the UNHCR from conducting illegal and humiliating
actions, by using photos of refugees as banners and human-buttons to collect
money. This is an abuse of the dignity and humanity of the refugees and must
stop immediately and a clear public apology present by the United Nations High
Commissioner of Refugees. My friends, I am talking about the pictures you can
see here: http://www.unhcr.co.uk/if_human/if_human.htm
As I’m a refugee and an activist for human rights, I feel that the problems of
refugees are not being solved by the UNHCR in fact their policies are worsening
them. I have been saying this since the first day I started my activities and I
said then that “If we want to improve the situation of the refugees in the world
we must start with changing the policies of the UNHCR,” I even wrote this in my
books.
The people of the UNHCR have used these pictures as banners and buttons to
collect money from donors. As a human being and a refugee, I felt these pictures
represent a bad and offensive example of the disrespect for our humanity as
refugees and asylum seekers. It does nothing to represent the meaning and the
principles that were mentioned in the UN51 convention. It fills me with pain and
sorrow to see this disrespect to our dignity and humanity and also how they are
deceiving the community with these pictures.
Unfortunately, the people who work at the UNHCR are working hard to present to
you a portrait of a refugee as a poor human being who's problem will end when
you donate a few $$$. Please look at their website (just google for the unhcr)
and look at the pictures there. Everywhere on the site you'll just see pictures
about poor people!
They have worked hard to establish a deep-rooted connection between poverty and
refugees. Everywhere in the world now if you ask anyone what the word 'refugee'
means the answer will be "a poor person who has lost his home", does any one of
you know another meaning for the word?
They have showed you just one thing: poor people as refugees and they made it
clear that by paying some money to them, the problem will be solved; all it
needs is financial resources! When you look directly at their websites, the
pictures of poor people will grab your attention straight away! For UNHCR, the
problem is money only! We all as humans need money, but not only the money!
There are many things in the life not only money, for example things like what
you could read in my free ebook ‘REFUGEES FARM’
http://www.umacr.org/truth/free_ebooks.htm
When I started to post in Yahoo groups mentioning I’m a refugee, many people
didn’t believe me, and they asked, “how it was possible for me to have access to
the Internet?” I was astonished at the beginning but afterwards I understood the
reality of what they were saying and started to post messages telling the truth
and because of this the UNHCR declared war on me and prosecuted me. So then I
started to call myself “The Truth Warrior” because I am struggling to tell you
the truth. I was the first refugee who wrote and published an e-book on the net
and the first refugee who wrote and published an e-book about the UNHCR and the
first who used the Internet as a weapon in his struggle to survive and to make
changes in real life.
The people of the UNHCR emphasized the connection between the refugees and
poverty and they drew a foggy picture of refugees, creating a strong impression
about their poverty, more than the fact they were stateless refugees. They also
put forward the idea it was the poverty creating the reality of them being
refugees in the first place. Now it is an accepted idea in the world community
that a refugee is just a poor person looking for a better life, well this is
just not true! The majority of the world doesn’t even realize that it is even
possible for a millionaire to have to flee his home and be a refugee.
Article 1 of the Convention defines a refugee as "A person who is outside
his/her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of
persecution because of his/her race, religion, nationality, membership in a
particular social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to
avail himself/herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for
fear of persecution."
There is no mention made of the financial situation of the refugee or the degree
of poverty he is experiencing, in plain simple words ‘poverty does not make
someone a refugee’. As I said before “the link between poverty and being a
refugee is another thing entirely”. Most of the time the situation of the
refugees is bad because they have no security, no opportunities to get work and
this then does create poverty! Its clear that giving money will not solve the
problem, what's needed is real understanding for the problems that refugees are
facing and they need global co-operation to solve these problems. This inspired
me to adopt my motto:
Justice brings peace, freedom brings democracy
Understanding is the way.
Let me share with you some figures published by the UNHCR itself.
The table is on my site here: http://www.unhcr.co.uk/if_human/if_human.htm
From that table, we can see the total private donations in year 2003 were US$
20,072,010. Now let’s analyze that number, Anyway if we consider the total
numbers of asylum seekers and refugees and others of concern to the UNHCR which
was 20,556,781 persons published on their table on the 1st of August 2003. Now
we need to divide that amount on the number of refugees 20,072,010/20,556,781
guess what? It’s equals $0.97!
So then each refugee will have a grand sum of $0.97 every year from these
donations!!! Yes my friend, they humiliated us for less than $1 a year. Now let
me think what I can do with this amount of money in one-year m’mmmm, maybe I can
buy 2 bars of Lebanese candy! I registered with UNHCR more than 8 years ago now
and until this day I have not received one cent from them! So according to that
table they owe me $7.80, a fortune!!! I declare now that I don’t want this money
($7.80) I just want them to remove these humiliating pictures and make a public
apology. You can ask the UNHCR in Beirut about that point via their email:
lebbe@... and please ask them also about the amount of the money that they
give for the refugees in Lebanon now. I hope they’ll answer you! Don’t you think
it’s strange that it’s hard to get answers from the UNHCR! You’ll see if you’re
interesting to know the truth!
The big question is: Does all this money come from these human-buttons asking
for donations on the UNHCR'S site? Does Pavarotti or Giorgio Armani need these
human-buttons to make donations? If they need these buttons and it's a good way
for collecting money for the UNHCR why don't they use their own pictures this
way to bring more money in for the UNHCR. Also about Angelina Jolie, she is a
goodwill Ambassador for the UNHCR and she has worked hard to collect money for
the UNHCR, she is pretty and attractive and her picture would make an excellent
human-button. They could write on the Angelina Jolie button "make a donation and
be like Angelina" or Send a donation to receive thanks from Angelina" do you
think that would offend her or the others we spoke about? Why would it do you
think??? Her pictures are everywhere so let them use these as a human-button to
collect money if they feel it is inoffensive and not dishonorable to her.
The last thing about these numbers is the percentage of the amount that
different governments contribution to the UNHCR. I read in one table the total
is $928,865,984. So what will happen if the UNHCR loses the 20 million that
comes from private donors, if they remove the human-buttons of refugees? OK,
they will have $908,865,984, but they would be giving respect to the refugees of
the world, do you think they care?
$0.97 a year makes no difference to a human being but if we divide the same
amount between the number of people working for the UNHCR, I believe they have
about 5000 employees… so 20,072,010/5000=$4014.40 more than $4000 a year don't
you think that makes a difference?
I have finished now about the numbers, let us continue about the pictures, and
the idea of using the Angelina Jolie, maybe you will say that her picture is
already being used on the site of the UNHCR and you would be right! But there
are a few differences between her picture and the pictures of the refugees.
Angelina’s picture isn’t used to collect money; it’s used to show how much she
cares about people and her help for the UNHCR. When you click on her picture,
you read about Angelina, but when you click on the human-button of the refugees
you find a form to donate money.
The important difference being this, Angelina’s picture gives you her name,
dates and history. The human-buttons, say nothing about the people on them, no
names, no dates, nothing! This pushed me to find out more about these
human-buttons. I found out the truth about the picture on the Iraqi banner in
the page about Iraq, and the button on this page to donate money. I wrote about
it in my book “THE TRUTH WARRIOR” I could tell you quickly about it now, for
more details please look in the book.
This is a picture of a Kurdish family, and it was taken in 1991! So that was 13
years ago!!! The funny thing is that they used it to illustrate and draw
attention to an event that happened last year, writing on it “IRAQ EMERGENCY”
strange to speak about an emergency and use a 13 year old picture don’t you
think?
Do you know why they used that picture? Because it was easy… they had it
already, no new refugees crisis happened during the last war with the USA on
Iraq in 2003! Guess what? This picture shows a Kurdish family fleeing by
crossing the border near Suleymaniye in the north of Iraq! The problem now, of
course is the returning of refugees who left during Saddam's rule. The age of
the picture and the fact it was taken for a different reason, it's deceptive and
dishonest act.
I would have thought that a big organization like the UNHCR would be able to get
a more modern picture of what is happening. They receive information daily and I
am sure they don't need to resort to 13-year-old pictures; this information is
from the last century!!! Maybe now there are not any pictures of Iraqi refugees
to encourage donors to click the human-button! What a pity for the people of the
UNHCR and for the refugees, especially the Iraqis. I wonder, how old the other
pictures?
Do you feel that the picture shows the real situation of Iraqi refugees now? Are
the Iraqis still fleeing and seeking refuge outside Iraq? The truth is always
painful. The UNHCR has stopped receiving new applications form Iraqis seeking
help, and when an Iraqi goes to the UNHCR in Beirut to ask for assistance they
are told that the only help they can get is repatriation to Iraq. At the moment
Iraqi refugees are scattered around the world, Many countries are offering to
help return Iraqis home. These countries governments mostly finance these plans.
For example in England the government has offered $1000 plus the cost of their
flight home to each refugee.
In Lebanon, we are not sure about the amount of financial support for those
wishing to return home, but someone who had gone home told me that it was about
$40 informed me, the source of the money was also unclear. Some people are
saying that this money is from unknown Iraqi parties and some say the Iraqi
Embassy in Beirut. I am currently looking for more information on this matter.
Anyway I don’t feel the $40 dollars given to refugees in Lebanon is worth
anything. Especially when viewed against the $1000 given by most European
countries. The question is this: If there is no refugee crisis in Iraq and the
financial support is being paid for by the governments where these people are,
why is the UNHCR still asking for money using pictures of Iraqi refugees?
One more important question about that picture, do you think that the people who
work for the UNHCR know anything about this woman or her family? Are they
registered refugees? What is her name and where are they all now? Do you think
she agreed to have her picture put on the web and used as a human-button?
I would love to know the answers to these questions, but unfortunately I can’t
ask the people at the UNHCR even though I tried many times over the years. They
never answer any questions! Instead they have tried to hurt me and even tried to
get my ISP to cut my connection! I hope one day you get the chance to ask them,
and that maybe they will answer you. They didn’t answer any of my friends who
sent them messages. So please if you like, let us play their game and be a
little cheeky. I hope that one of you can contact them and tell them you want to
donate money to help the family they showed in the picture. Not telling them of
course that you know the picture is old. Just tell them you want to sponsor that
family. Notice that they wrote on it ‘Emergency’ so it’s good to help them out!
I’ll wait with baited breath to hear their answers.
What do you think the answer will be? What do you think she would feel like if
she saw her picture used like that, and what if her family sees her like this or
someone in her village? She is a Moslem woman and to expose herself like this is
a sin in Islam. Did you notice she uses two pieces of cloth to cover her head?
The UNHCR using picture of Moslem woman on the net as a banner and as a
human-button to collect money where millions of men could see her!!! That is a
very big sin in Islam.
As I’m a Moslem and I am sure the UNHCR haven’t asked the woman’s permission to
display her picture publicly like they are doing now, I am asking them to
respect the Islamic religion and apologize to the woman and remove her picture
immediately. Also I am asking each Moslem person reading this article to express
their concern about this sin, which is being committed by the UNHCR for the sake
of this woman and her family. Every Moslem knows what sin is, and it is also a
sin to be silent when you see a wrong being committed. I am asking each Moslem
to contact the UNHCR and express your opinion as we are guided to do by
Islam. I’m asking Moslems particularly and all members of other religions
generally, to express concern about the abuse of refugees because all religions
are based on respect for the dignity of all humanity.
There is a legal point of view for this subject:
The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees was established by the U.N.
General Assembly in 1950. According to the UN51 convention and the Statute of
the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (G.A. res. 428
(V), annex, 5 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 20) at 46, U.N. Doc. A/1775 (1950)).
“CHAPTER II. - FUNCTIONS OF THE HIGH COMMISSIONER
10. The High Commissioner shall administer any funds, public or private, which
he receives for assistance to refugees, and shall distribute them among the
private and, as appropriate, public agencies which he deems best qualified to
administer such assistance.
The High Commissioner may reject any offers which he does not consider
appropriate or which cannot be utilized.
The High Commissioner shall not appeal to governments for funds or make a
general appeal, without the prior approval of the General Assembly.
The High Commissioner shall include in his annual report a statement of his
activities in this field.”
As you can see the UNHCR must have permission from the General assembly for any
general appeal for money. The question is: Did the General Assembly agree to use
these pictures to appeal for funds?
I would sincerely love to receive an answer, I am a refugee and I feel it is an
abuse of our humanity as refugees in this world. Its not just abuse of our
humanity but for the humanity of all humans.
We appeal to you to support this campaign to remove these abuses and to provide
more respect for all refugees worldwide. Our situation in the world worsens day
after day without any new polices to help or improve our situation. The UNHCR
uses us as human-buttons and baits to collect money! Our problem is not only
because of poverty it's because the general abuse of the meaning and the
principles of UN51 convention because of these money collectors in UNHCR and
other organizations.
This abuse must stop immediately. If UNHCR needs money so badly, there must be
other respectable and honorable ways to make general and public appeals for
money. For example using buttons like paypal provides for donation without any
humiliating pictures of humans at all.
I'm not saying that the people of UNHCR are all bad, they're just part of a
system and they have their procedures and regulations. I just wanted to explain
some of our feelings as refugees. To offer my understanding of the relationship
between the refugees and the UNHCR. I'm an eyewitness to that relationship,
trying hard to improve the relationship using my campaigns, my books and my
unanswered questions.
I feel sad because the UNHCR has failed in the past 3 years to answer my
questions. Until this day they failed to answer even one question! I'm not
asking for the impossible. I just want some answers, as I'm a refugee, as I'm a
human and as I'm an activist for human rights. All that gives me the right to
ask and to have my questions answered.
I invite you as fellow humans and members of the world community to support my
mission by asking the UNHCR to remove these abuses and to provide some
reasonable answers for the questions that you have read in this article.
This invitation is a very important as part of the collective efforts to enhance
respect for human rights, and for global peace. The UNHCR represent an important
constituent of our community, as humans and any failure in its performance will
weaken the harmony and peace of the world.
We're living in a time where wars are declared to liberate people from despotism
and further democracy and human rights. Blood is being shed now to improve
democracy, respect for human rights. Do we need wars and to shed blood every
time we face disregard for human rights and democracy?! Isn't there any peaceful
way?
I have heard many people claim that they're working to help the refugees and
human rights activists and some of them are collecting money also. I'm asking
these people: What are you doing to help refugees and enhance human rights and
respect our humanity? I'd like to know, and if you have nothing to do now, you
can start work and help refugees by working to remove these abuses and
humiliations for all humans. Contact the UNHCR and ask them about these pictures
and tell them that these pictures are an abuse of refugees’ dignity and
humanity, when you can do this then we can see that you really care about
refugees.
I don’t have any money to pay you but if you would like to help us in our
struggle and you respect our humanity as refugees in the world, then we would be
very thankful for this help. I’m an E-book publisher and I will be publishing
many more E-books in the future. I would like to have answers to the questions
in this article and since the people at the UNHCR refused to answer my
questions, I declare now that I’ll give free access to all of the E-books I will
write in my lifetime to the first person who will find the answers to my many
questions concerning the UNHCR. He/she will be a hero of all refugees and I’ll
write about them what they would like. I can’t give them a medal now, but we
will give them our love and our thanks as refugees.
Please, if you think this issue is important and needs acts, you can send
messages to the UNHCR and your government to speak your opinions according to
your rights and the democracy. Here are some emails:
ecu@...,inquiries@...,Hqpr00@...,tb-petitions@...,info@usaforun\
hcr.org
Notice that you can find more emails here: http://www.umacr.org/truth/emails.htm
or you can brows for more on the net or to find more ways for contact them like
phones or faxes.
Together we will build better world.
You could reach me fast via this form: http://www.unhcr.co.uk/email_me.htm and
you can read about me here: http://www.unhcr.co.uk/about/osam_altaee.htm
Thanks
THE TRUTH WARRIOR
OSAM ALTAEE
http://www.unhcr.co.uk
This Tuesday evening, Jason Sorens, Free State Project
Founder and Chairman of the Board, will be answering
questions about the project. Please bring your
questions and ideas and join us at
http://freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to
see you there!
Chat Schedule for upcoming weeks:
* Tuesday December 21st, 9pm ET, Q & A Session with
Jason Sorens, FSP Founder and Chairman of the Board
* Thursday December 30th, 9pm ET, FSP Social Club
Chat -- just for fun.
* Thursday January 6th, 2005, 9pm ET Local Groups
Workshop with Keith Murphy, FSP Local Groups Director
Location for all chat sessions will be:
http://freestateproject.org/chat
Previous chat transcripts are available at:
http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/
Resources used during these sessions can be found at:
http://freestateproject.org/training/
(Note: backup chat site at
http://www.soulawakenings.com/chat)
=====
It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. -
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
This Thursday evening, Keith Murphy, Free State
Project Local Groups Director will be holding a Local
Groups Workshop. Local groups are one of the most
important means of recruiting for the Free State
Project. If you have questions about your local
group, or how to get one started, this is the place
you can get answers. Please bring your questions and
ideas and join us at http://freestateproject.org/chat
at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!
Chat Schedule for upcoming weeks:
* Thursday January 6th, 9pm ET Local Groups Workshop
with Keith Murphy, FSP Local Groups Director
* Thursday January 13th, 9pm ET Q & A Session with
Free State Project early movers.
* Thursday January 20th, 9pm ET Recruiting workshop
* Tuesday January 25th, 9pm ET Fundraising chat with
Varrin Swearingen, FSP Director of Development
Location for all chat sessions will be:
http://freestateproject.org/chat
Previous chat transcripts are available at:
http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/
Resources used during these sessions can be found at:
http://freestateproject.org/training/
(Note: backup chat site at http://www.soulawakenings.com/chat)
=====
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates. – Tacitus
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://underground.soulawakenings.com/
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com
This Thursday evening, we will have a panel of early
movers ready to share their experiences in New
Hampshire. If you have questions about moving to New
Hampshire, housing, jobs, acclimating to snow, drop by
and have at us! Please join us at
http://freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to
see you there!
Chat Schedule for upcoming weeks:
* Thursday January 13th, 9pm ET Q & A Session with
Free State Project early movers.
* Thursday January 20th, 9pm ET Recruiting workshop
* Tuesday January 25th, 9pm ET Fundraising chat with
Varrin Swearingen, FSP Director of Development
Location for all chat sessions will be:
http://freestateproject.org/chat
Previous chat transcripts are available at:
http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/
Resources used during these sessions can be found at:
http://freestateproject.org/training/
(Note: backup chat site at
http://www.soulawakenings.com/chat)
=====
Gun control = victim disarmament. --L. Neil Smith
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://underground.soulawakenings.com/
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
Are you so passionate about freedom, you've been
turning every stone trying to get to New Hampshire?
Are you one of those people who just can't wait,
you're moving just as soon as you find a way? Like
the Glasseaters of the vote (those who would move
anywhere), you can be an FSP Free Radical of the move
--- "We're moving no matter what!"
Tell the world you're a Free Radical by adding
yourself to this hardcore group of activists!
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/freeradicals/index.html
=====
Gun control = victim disarmament. --L. Neil Smith
--Free State Project http://www.freestateproject.org/
--New Hampshire Underground
http://underground.soulawakenings.com/
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Hi everyone,
I'm speaking about the FSP and we have a table at Freedom Fest in Las
Vegas May 12-14. Carol and I were there two years ago and really
enjoyed it, and many from No. Cal. were there last year and had a great
time. If you'd like to attend this year and help with the table
(please!), this Friday is the deadline to save $50 on the registration
fee. Just go to
http://www.freedomfest.com/
click on "Online Event Registration" and enter "SPONSOR50" in the rate
code field when you get to that page. You can also get the discount
when you register by phone at 1-800-USA-1776.
Hope to see you there,
Dan <http://www.danmcguire.com>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Greetings everyone,
Tax day is coming soon, and so is the Free State
Project's objective of reaching 20,000 members in
2006. To achive that FSP goal and liberty in our
lifetimes, we need the help of all our members. Kate
Rick has come up with the idea of a coordinated effort
in every state to have a tax day protest and
recruiting event. We need volunteers from each state
to organize the event for their area. That would
involve letting people in the area know that it's
happening, and obtaining FSP materials to hand out.
We will have those materials available for any who
volunteer to hold a protest. It can be just one
person from each state! Last year in Dallas we had a
dozen out protesting at the main post office. People
are mad about having to pay taxes, mad about dealing
with the awful post office. It's a great time to give
them an alternative--a Free State!
Kat
Kate Rick who is organizing this project sent the
following request.
-----------------------------------------------------
I and others are working to organize tax day protests
across the country to publicize the FSP. Every bit of
activism will help--banners, ads, gimmicks, fliers,
t-shirts, standing outside of post offices, the IRS...
Who is willing to go protest? (This can be in your own
town, we can organize multiple groups, we can try for
one big one--the form matters a lot less than the
function.)
Who will paint and hang highway banners?
Who has contacts with other anti-tax groups? (Anyone
from your local LP to specific income tax crusaders or
people I haven't thought of--what are they doing? Can
we participate while wearing FSP t-shirts or handing
out FSP information?)
Those are just three possible ways to do this. There
are a million others--last year, Adam and I handed out
cookies and FSP fliers at our local post office.
Bribery works. ;)
This is a golden opportunity--one of those rare times
when a huge number of people in the country are doing
the same thing, and we have the opportunity to get
their attention. Out of those millions, there
are 14,000 who will want to join us. Let's let them
know we exist.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
I read recently of an experiment done which showed
that that anyone on the planet can be connected to any
other person on the planet through a chain of
acquaintances that has no more than five
intermediaries. I'd like to do another experiment.
In order to get this message out to everyone on the
internet, all it would take is for each person who
receives this to forward it to everyone in his/her
address book. Take a minute to read and forward this
and help me with my experiment! If you like, you can
also add a comment on this webpage to show how widely
this message had been distributed.
http://www.soulawakenings.com/sixdegrees/index.html
Thanks!
Kat Dillon
-------------------------------------------------------
Migrate for Freedom!
by Kat Dillon • Updated May 24, 2005
What would cause a group of ordinary citizens to
uproot family, leave jobs and friends to move to New
Hampshire? It would have to be something important.
Yet 6,500 individuals so far have pledged to do so.
Though none are required by their pledge to move until
we have 20,000 pledgers, 104 people have already made
the move. I myself left a quite comfortable
situation in Texas and moved with my daughter to New
Hampshire in June 2004.
Why are all these people taking this drastic step? We
are part of the Free State Project
(http://www.freestateproject.org), a group of people
concerned about the ever growing intrusion by
government on the private lives of citizens. The Free
State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more
liberty-oriented people will move to New Hampshire,
where they may work within the political system to
reduce the size and scope of government. The success
of the Free State Project would likely entail
reductions in burdensome taxation and regulation,
reforms in state and local law, an end to federal
mandates, and a restoration of constitutional
federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to
the rest of the nation and the world.
Moving for the cause of freedom is nothing new. Jason
Sorens, founder and Chairman of the Board for the Free
State Project points out, "The whole American
experience is based on migrating for freedom. That's
what most of the immigrants who came to our shores
were doing. They wanted a better life, and that's
exactly what we're doing." From that movement sprang
the greatest nation this planet has ever seen. Nowhere
else was it recognized that individual rights are
inherent and inalienable, not a whim of those in power
to bless us with or take away. Nowhere else has the
protection of those rights led to such a prosperous
nation.
The problem is that daily, we see our brothers
sacrificing their inherent rights for the illusion of
safety. Our citizens have forgotten their power. They
have forgotten that their rights are not given them by
the government, so they accept it blindly when the
government takes away those rights. The founding
fathers were aware of this problem. Benjamin Franklin
once said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty,
to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety."
When we give up our 4th Amendment rights for
legislation like the Patriot Act, we open ourselves up
to something far more terrifying than a few
terrorists. We open ourselves up to the full force of
the U.S. being used against its own citizens. If you
believe the Patriot Act will only be used against
terrorists, you've buried your head in the sand. As
H.L. Mencken wrote, "The whole aim of practical
politics is to keep the populace alarmed - and hence
clamorous to be led to safety - by menacing it with an
endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
Sound familiar? Are you tiring yet of the elevated
security alerts, vague warnings of imminent terrorist
attacks? As John Stossel reminds us, "Patrick Henry
did not say, 'Give me absolute safety or give me
death.'"
When was the last time you read the Constitution or
the Bill of Rights? At the very least, read through
the Bill of Rights. You'll be hard pressed to find any
that the U.S. government is not now violating. You
might be surprised to learn what some of your rights
are.
As dire as the violation of our rights is, the fed's
trampling of our economic freedoms are almost harder
to bear. Let me give you a small example. A friend
wanted to start a restaurant here in Dallas. He was
all ready to go, wanted to provide his excellent
service to the people of Dallas, provide a few jobs.
It took nearly a year after his being ready to satisfy
government regulations and open his business. After
moving the business, remodeling to suit regulations,
getting all the necessary permits, etc., he was
finally ALLOWED to sell food. This small example is
multiplied a million times over in every business
across the nation. Is the illusion of safety worth
having our hands tied? Does the government actually
protect you? Wouldn't it be better to take
responsibility for your own life and safety? It is the
impossible weight of government regulation and
taxation that is driving our economy down, not greedy
capitalists, as we are told.
The U.S. left the gold standard in 1933. This allowed
the government to print money on a whim. When money is
printed without being backed by gold or silver, it
loses its value. That is what creates inflation.
Notice how prices have been rising in the past few
months, everything across the board costs more? That
is the price we all pay when the printing presses are
rolling.
How did schools become a government operation? Any
time you ask government to solve a problem that the
free market can solve itself, you will find the
problem solved inefficiently and often with
corruption. An individual will be cautious with his
own money and investments. Government, which takes its
wealth by force, is like a rich son who, not having to
work for his money, squanders it thoughtlessly.
The Free State Project proposes to take education out
of the hands of government, precisely because it is
too important to be left to that rich philandering
son, the state. Already we have in place private means
to fund schools in New Hampshire. The Liberty
Scholarship Fund (http://lsfund.org) has been set up
as a first step to providing privately funded
alternatives to the public schools.
With all these problems facing our once magnificent
nation, what can be done? Voting has not been
effective. The individuals who see through the media
smoke screen are scattered. Legislation is heavily
against allowing third parties to run for office.
Fighting for our freedom is not an attractive option,
even though the abuses we endure are far greater than
those that spurred the American Revolution. So our
proposal is to gather those scattered individuals who
understand the benefits of freedom. If we can create a
haven for freedom in just one state, it will serve as
a shining example to the rest of the nation, and the
world. If you value your individual rights and your
pocketbook, please check us out.
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who
can labor in freedom. – Albert Einstein
--New Hampshire Underground
http://nhunderground.com/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
The moderator needs to step in and clean up the SPAM in this group.
It has gotten entirely out of hand. I would suggest making the group
restriced, where people have to apply to join. Not to exclude anyone,
but just to make sure it is a REAL PERSON, and not a SPAM-BOT. That
would automatically weed out the Spam-bots.
Derek
I am, however, well acquainted with FSP. I cannot move from Sun City,
Arizona due to arthritis and age. I'm interested in individual
freedoms and am currently on the Board of "End of Life Choices" in the
N.W. Phoenix area.
Having been a Republican for 50 years, I cannot support the Bush
Administration in their overly intrusive desire to control our
personal lives. I'm interested in Fiscal Conservatives and would love
to connect with other voters in Arizona.
Sandy Price
I was just wondering, as the time is nearing when I *might* want to
leave for NH, and I see no stewardship here in AZ for the FSP... even
worse than when I bailed out over a year ago. What gives?
rick "scruffy" lapoint
www.lesterstreetstudios.com
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2E231449http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
When Horace Greely opined "Go West, young man, go West!", only the
statists listened. -rick
www.flugnod.com - molten plastic sculpture
Last year, a group of dedicated activists began the
Liberty Scholarship Fund in New Hampshire. The idea
is to help provide private alternatives to the public
schools. $1,000 scholarships are given to families
who have had children in public schools or are
starting school in NH, who wish to homeschool or send
their children to private school but cannot otherwise
afford to do so. Four scholarships were given out
last year, thanks to the generous donations from
liberty lovers around the nation. This year, we have
three applications for scholarships, but need
approximately $1,300 more to help these three families
escape the public school system. If you can help in
this effort, please visit http://lsfund.org or write
to us at:
Liberty Scholarship Fund
P.O. Box 443
Newmarket, NH 03857
Thank you for your time!
Kat Dillon
LSF Vice Chair
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
"sjprice1" <s@r...> wrote:
> I am, however, well acquainted with FSP. I cannot move from Sun
>City, Arizona due to arthritis and age. I'm interested in individual
> freedoms and am currently on the Board of "End of Life Choices" in
>the N.W. Phoenix area.
>
> Having been a Republican for 50 years, I cannot support the Bush
> Administration in their overly intrusive desire to control our
> personal lives. I'm interested in Fiscal Conservatives and would
>love to connect with other voters in Arizona.
>
> Sandy Price
Hi Sandy,
I am a young nonvoter interested in bypassing the gov'ts services in
favor of those controlled by individuals that I enter into contract
with. I simply dislike all of the services the government provides
and am interested in contracting with those who work for money, not in
the name of "public's interest".
A well-designed description of values that I respect is presented at
www.selfsip.org. The primary thinkers behind this are Oct-Apr
residents of Casa Grande, Paul and Kitty.
I currently stay with them now and then and will soon be in Phoenix
completing school and working for dollar bills.
I initially have two questions in regards to "fiscal conservation".
What evidence or theory do you have that having one (or many) fiscally
conservative representative(s) will impact your life in positive ways?
Which irresponsible spendings are affecting you negatively and what
evidence in your life proves this to you?
bye for now,
Jack [27, m, from indiana originally, healthy, active (mind & body),
happy and getting even happier!, in school to develop material design
and handling skills (engineering)]
Of course, you realize that you sent this to the entire list.
Not that there is any harm in such an action, as in-action seems to be
the rule of the day in these parts.
I won't address those points you directed at Sandy, but am curious about
a couple of things you stated in your post...
What part of Indiana are you from? My wife is currently 'spending time'
with her family in Evansville, and I may move there for a spell as part
of my trek toward NH.
How do you like AZ thus far? Being from NH, I hate it myself... quite
statist IMO, to put it lightly.
Welcome aboard!
rick
-----Original Message-----
From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olehenry1
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:52 PM
To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: I'm new to this forum
"sjprice1" <s@r...> wrote:
> I am, however, well acquainted with FSP. I cannot move from Sun
>City, Arizona due to arthritis and age. I'm interested in individual
> freedoms and am currently on the Board of "End of Life Choices" in
>the N.W. Phoenix area.
>
> Having been a Republican for 50 years, I cannot support the Bush
> Administration in their overly intrusive desire to control our
> personal lives. I'm interested in Fiscal Conservatives and would
>love to connect with other voters in Arizona.
>
> Sandy Price
Hi Sandy,
I am a young nonvoter interested in bypassing the gov'ts services in
favor of those controlled by individuals that I enter into contract
with. I simply dislike all of the services the government provides
and am interested in contracting with those who work for money, not in
the name of "public's interest".
A well-designed description of values that I respect is presented at
www.selfsip.org. The primary thinkers behind this are Oct-Apr
residents of Casa Grande, Paul and Kitty.
I currently stay with them now and then and will soon be in Phoenix
completing school and working for dollar bills.
I initially have two questions in regards to "fiscal conservation".
What evidence or theory do you have that having one (or many) fiscally
conservative representative(s) will impact your life in positive ways?
Which irresponsible spendings are affecting you negatively and what
evidence in your life proves this to you?
bye for now,
Jack [27, m, from indiana originally, healthy, active (mind & body),
happy and getting even happier!, in school to develop material design
and handling skills (engineering)]
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Olehenry1. You have your freedom not to vote or get involved in anyway with
local or federal government decisions but then you have no right to complain
about the government's decisions.
I personally have had some wonderful victories in dealing with heavy-handed
politicians when I lived in California and we managed to put controls on our
property taxes when many of our seniors, on fixed incomes, were forced to
sell their homes. It took hard work from one end of California to the other
but the voters themselves put a limit on the taxes they had to pay. We
forced the State to act fiscally instead of their never-ending billing the
residents of the states to pay for services we did not want.
I am a Fiscal Conservative in the same way that Barry Goldwater was running
his campaign in 1964. He felt the government had no place in our education
standards, our personal choices, or our family values. He wanted the
Federal powers scaled back to fit the job description in the Constitution.
At this time, the Feds issue mandates for the States to follow and these are
often redundant and too costly for the tax payers to pay. The Federal
government has one single purpose and that is to protect American citizens
from foreign attack; which to me, means protecting our borders and all forms
of transportation entering the country. They have failed on this due to a
heavy influence of Social issues that they are not equipped to handle.
In America we all have our own individual standards (moral and ethical) and
the Federal Government has no business setting their own social standards on
any of us. The States each have their own Constitution where the people
themselves have agreed to when these Constitutions were ratified. If the
people want, they can change portions of the laws through elections. We
have elected Congressional Representatives who have totally ignored our
State Constitutions and in doing so have destroyed the 10th Amendment of our
U.S. Constitution. Our State Rights are being eroded by men like Jeff
Flake, Trent Franks, J.D. Hayworth, Shaddeg and both of our Senators in an
effort to bring their own religious doctrines into our lives. These men
have run on Conservative labels and in fact are little religious dictators
trying to legislate our personal choices. There is no expensive federal
bill they will not vote for if the King of the Hill (G.W. Bush) requests it
. In my point of view, they are not Conservative but simply religious
wackos who will not allow our freedoms to remain our own. I would like to
see them all thrown out of office in 2006!
My definition of a Fiscal Conservative is as follows: A desire for limited
government; individual freedoms guaranteed and personal responsibilities
given back to all Americans. Anything less than this would be unacceptable
to me. We had these freedoms when I was growing up and they are now being
removed by an intrusive form of government that would have been totally
unacceptable during the writing of the Constitution.
Where to start on waste and abuse of our taxes? Unless you follow the
actions of the U.S. Congress, you will never know. Do the research and you
will see the billions of dollars that are spent on pork issues simply to buy
the votes of the U.S. Congress members.
Sandy Price
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Rick LaPoint" <rick@o...> wrote:
> Of course, you realize that you sent this to the entire list.
> Not that there is any harm in such an action, as in-action seems to
>be the rule of the day in these parts.
I'm not completely familiar with the terms. "Entire list" meaning it
was sent to the yahoo group forum or did I accidentally send every
member a reply (reply-to-all) in addition?
> I won't address those points you directed at Sandy, but am curious
>about a couple of things you stated in your post...
>
> What part of Indiana are you from? My wife is currently 'spending
>time' with her family in Evansville, and I may move there for a
>spell as part of my trek toward NH.
Grew up age 3-19 in Fort Wayne, schooling in Lafayette and Muncie
from 19-23.
> How do you like AZ thus far? Being from NH, I hate it myself...
>quite statist IMO, to put it lightly.
Compared to what I've read of NH and a few other states, I would hate
AZ as well. However, I've noted in my journal, "politics is
politics, whether yer in Alabamy or Big City New York".
Either you have "crooks" spending your confiscated tax dollars or you
have "honest abe" spending it. Regardless, they spend it in
the "public's interest". Who are these "public"?
I love the weather.
> Welcome aboard!
>
> rick
Thanks rick. When do you head off toward the East?
Jack
Hi sandy,
We have quite a few differences in definitions as well as the
importance/significance of some words. I hope you can appreciate
this and are willing to patiently communicate with me.
Additionally, I have no desire to win a conversation. If my
sentences appear to be charged with mindless emotion, please do not
take offense. There may actually be some good points hidden in the
passion (feel free to ignore what you see as rotten fruit and
instead, pick the good stuff).
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
wrote:
> Olehenry1. You have your freedom not to vote or get involved in
anyway with
> local or federal government decisions but then you have no right to
complain
> about the government's decisions.
I feel it is "right" of me to complain (I assume you mean critique,
analyze, disassemble scientifically as I don't practice complaining
since rarely do I feel great suffering) about actions taken by men of
the "government club". I feel it is equally right of me to critique
past actions of ANY organizations as well as individuals so that I
may learn and possibly relate ideas with others.
I've heard the one-liner, "If ya Don't vote, you have no right to
complain about what they vote for."
Incorrect.
If 51% voted to kill the 25% of voters who happened to vote "yea" for
their lives, this 25% have a right to complain. If that 51% also
voted to kill the 24% of nonvoters, those nonvoters have no right to
complain?
Why?
>I personally have had some wonderful victories in dealing with
>heavy-handed politicians when I lived in California and we managed
>to put controls on our property taxes when many of our seniors, on
>fixed incomes, were forced to sell their homes. It took hard work
>from one end of California to the other but the voters themselves
>put a limit on the taxes they had to pay. We forced the State to
>act fiscally instead of their never-ending billing the residents of
>the states to pay for services we did not want.
Superficially (without more information), I commend your efforts.
I do have a problem however with your use of "we". I assume you mean
ALL Californians, or maybe ALL seniors, or maybe ALL female
Californians, or maybe ALL of your friends... did your new law which
was enforced on ALL Californians satisfy ALL Californians?
>I am a Fiscal Conservative in the same way that Barry Goldwater was
>running his campaign in 1964. He felt the government had no place
>in our education standards, our personal choices, or our family
>values. He wanted the Federal powers scaled back to fit the job
>description in the Constitution.
One problem I see generally with the Constitution is simply this: in
order to get where we are today, we had to have the Constitution as a
starting point. I have proof that the Constitution is the "1st
cause" of where we are today...proof: a 200+ year case study. :)
>At this time, the Feds issue mandates for the States to follow and
>these are often redundant and too costly for the tax payers to pay.
>The Federal government has one single purpose and that is to protect
>American citizens from foreign attack; which to me, means protecting
>our borders and all forms of transportation entering the country.
>They have failed on this due to a heavy influence of Social issues
>that they are not equipped to handle.
>In America we all have our own individual standards (moral and
>ethical) and the Federal Government has no business setting their
>own social standards on any of us. The States each have their own
>Constitution where the people themselves have agreed to when these
>Constitutions were ratified. If the people want, they can change
>portions of the laws through elections.
Again, this use of "we" drives home an important point. "We"
Americans all think alike...but if not, then "we" New Hampshire
residents all think alike...but maybe not, so then we City of Concord
residents all think alike...well, guess not...so then...
Where do you draw the line? Why can't a Federal Gov't make decisions
for "we"? Why is this different than a State Gov't making decisions
for "we"? and a city gov't, etc....
>We have elected Congressional Representatives who have totally
>ignored our State Constitutions and in doing so have destroyed the
>10th Amendment of our U.S. Constitution. Our State Rights are being
>eroded by men like Jeff Flake, Trent Franks, J.D. Hayworth, Shaddeg
>and both of our Senators in an effort to bring their own religious
>doctrines into our lives. These men have run on Conservative labels
>and in fact are little religious dictators trying to legislate our
>personal choices. There is no expensive federal bill they will not
>vote for if the King of the Hill (G.W. Bush) requests it. In my
>point of view, they are not Conservative but simply religious wackos
>who will not allow our freedoms to remain our own. I would like to
>see them all thrown out of office in 2006!
I see them all as doing exactly what they should do given the job
description. Represent 280 million individuals???? Please, that's
ubsurd. Spend a few hours questioning why it makes sense to ask 2
senators to act in the "best interest of each individual of Arizona",
and so on down the line of Representatives.
My conclusion fresh into college was, "that's impossible!" Maybe
what these reps should be doing (and are actually doing) is: attempt
to discover what is best for every human, and then pass a law to
ensure they each do so. At the time, it sounded doable to me. Now
however, I recognize the fact that NO HUMAN ON EARTH KNOWS ME LIKE I
KNOW ME. Let me decide...for me!
>My definition of a Fiscal Conservative is as follows: A desire for
>limited government; individual freedoms guaranteed and personal
>responsibilities given back to all Americans. Anything less than
>this would be unacceptable to me. We had these freedoms when I was
>growing up and they are now being removed by an intrusive form of
>government that would have been totally unacceptable during the
>writing of the Constitution.
Understood.
>Where to start on waste and abuse of our taxes? Unless you follow
>the actions of the U.S. Congress, you will never know. Do the
>research and you will see the billions of dollars that are spent on
>pork issues simply to buy the votes of the U.S. Congress members.
Any substance that I earn which is forcably removed from my
possession becomes pork, IMO. Withholding taxes using the threat of
jail time (USC Title 26) is that force. Assuming authority over
individuals, like a god, the US government and State governments give
those with the guns the power/force to do as they "see fit".
See fit = public's interest.
> Sandy Price
Nice to meet you electronically, Sandy.
Jack
"skip the vote!"
Look guys, I have been actively involved in politics since 1950. My entire
family had been Republicans who demanded a limited government from the D.C.
right down to the state Capital in California. Even in those early years,
the more people who immigrated to America demanded government programs to
take care of them. This was absolutely harmful to people from coast to
coast. It was obscene for Ike to fight communism by adding "Under God" into
our pledge of allegiance and it seemed to most of us the first step to tell
the world that America was a Christian nation. None of us could believe
that the American people actually accepted this, but many did.
After WW2, we had millions of non-Christians immigrating to America and
they were welcomed with open arms by all of us because we felt that our own
scientific and defense areas of expertise could use an influence of European
scientists and weapons designers. Sadly our own government schools had
begun to falter in their quality of academic education and it was just the
first attempt at dumbing down the children of America. Why would the
Governors of the states allow this decline of academics to happen?
When the immigrants put their children in our government schools (Public
schools) they were horrified at the level of achievement desired from these
schools. Many private schools had begun to pop up and many of the new
immigrants poured into them. In California where my family had lived for
generations, the study of why the schools were lacking in academics was made
and it came down to ill-prepared teachers who could not keep up with the new
math and science subjects and they began to rewrite the curriculum to suit
what they could teach.
A deeper study showed that with our missile programs coming to a slowdown
and the wars taking the focus from our local governments who were bidding
for the big contracts, our world of independent freedoms was beginning to
decline.
The key to the success of America is academic education from first grade and
it seemed to fade out. By the time my own kids were starting to learn about
the world, it was obvious that our public schools were boring the hell out
of the kids and many social issues began to surface within the
neighborhoods. I had been bored in the lower grades and I was sent to a
private school where I began to catch the thrill of books. I couldn't get
enough books to read and decided to do the same for my children. We had no
television in the home but a large selection of books on everything. I
would read aloud to my kids and then turn that over to the oldest to read to
the youngest and our world became a theater of all the great books in
literature that had been written. We spent a couple of years on science
fiction to broaden their view of t he world.
Instead of drugs, my kids got into horse and dog breeding and even when in
highschool took many classes from the community colleges in things like
agriculture and health studies. There friends simply sat in front of the
boob tube soaking up ads on things they wanted their parents to buy for
them.
We became interested in evolution and how 2 generations of Americans had
folded up their brains for television shows and cartoons. It is essential
to become proactive in our lives and take the personal responsibility for
what we do as well as what we are. My kids are all actively working for
American freedoms, how to survive without killing the people of other
countries and how to protect what is left of our freedoms which are being
squelched by a corrupt form of government.
We are way ahead of just sitting and whining but we are actively searching
for leaders who will work to keep the government out of our lives. The
whole purpose of the FSP was to get out from under an oppressive and
redundant government.
So we can be active or not; whatever suits us. I keep a very close eye on
my state government as well as the federal intrusion into my personal
decisions and will search for candidates and vote them into office. I do
know that the bunch we have in Arizona are terrified of working for freedom
and will do anything suggested by President Bush and will turn Arizona into
a mud room for the rest of the nation.
FSP knows the dangers of ignoring their children's education and they are
working to build the kind of schools they feel are necessary. I did the
same thing only took a couple of jobs to pay for private schools. It has
paid off as all the kids are professionals and are helping others to get out
of the boring routines taught by the homes and schools.
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of olehenry1
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:42 PM
To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: I'm new to this forum
Hi sandy,
We have quite a few differences in definitions as well as the
importance/significance of some words. I hope you can appreciate
this and are willing to patiently communicate with me.
Additionally, I have no desire to win a conversation. If my
sentences appear to be charged with mindless emotion, please do not
take offense. There may actually be some good points hidden in the
passion (feel free to ignore what you see as rotten fruit and
instead, pick the good stuff).
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
wrote:
> Olehenry1. You have your freedom not to vote or get involved in
anyway with
> local or federal government decisions but then you have no right to
complain
> about the government's decisions.
I feel it is "right" of me to complain (I assume you mean critique,
analyze, disassemble scientifically as I don't practice complaining
since rarely do I feel great suffering) about actions taken by men of
the "government club". I feel it is equally right of me to critique
past actions of ANY organizations as well as individuals so that I
may learn and possibly relate ideas with others.
I've heard the one-liner, "If ya Don't vote, you have no right to
complain about what they vote for."
Incorrect.
If 51% voted to kill the 25% of voters who happened to vote "yea" for
their lives, this 25% have a right to complain. If that 51% also
voted to kill the 24% of nonvoters, those nonvoters have no right to
complain?
Why?
>I personally have had some wonderful victories in dealing with
>heavy-handed politicians when I lived in California and we managed
>to put controls on our property taxes when many of our seniors, on
>fixed incomes, were forced to sell their homes. It took hard work
>from one end of California to the other but the voters themselves
>put a limit on the taxes they had to pay. We forced the State to
>act fiscally instead of their never-ending billing the residents of
>the states to pay for services we did not want.
Superficially (without more information), I commend your efforts.
I do have a problem however with your use of "we". I assume you mean
ALL Californians, or maybe ALL seniors, or maybe ALL female
Californians, or maybe ALL of your friends... did your new law which
was enforced on ALL Californians satisfy ALL Californians?
>I am a Fiscal Conservative in the same way that Barry Goldwater was
>running his campaign in 1964. He felt the government had no place
>in our education standards, our personal choices, or our family
>values. He wanted the Federal powers scaled back to fit the job
>description in the Constitution.
One problem I see generally with the Constitution is simply this: in
order to get where we are today, we had to have the Constitution as a
starting point. I have proof that the Constitution is the "1st
cause" of where we are today...proof: a 200+ year case study. :)
>At this time, the Feds issue mandates for the States to follow and
>these are often redundant and too costly for the tax payers to pay.
>The Federal government has one single purpose and that is to protect
>American citizens from foreign attack; which to me, means protecting
>our borders and all forms of transportation entering the country.
>They have failed on this due to a heavy influence of Social issues
>that they are not equipped to handle.
>In America we all have our own individual standards (moral and
>ethical) and the Federal Government has no business setting their
>own social standards on any of us. The States each have their own
>Constitution where the people themselves have agreed to when these
>Constitutions were ratified. If the people want, they can change
>portions of the laws through elections.
Again, this use of "we" drives home an important point. "We"
Americans all think alike...but if not, then "we" New Hampshire
residents all think alike...but maybe not, so then we City of Concord
residents all think alike...well, guess not...so then...
Where do you draw the line? Why can't a Federal Gov't make decisions
for "we"? Why is this different than a State Gov't making decisions
for "we"? and a city gov't, etc....
>We have elected Congressional Representatives who have totally
>ignored our State Constitutions and in doing so have destroyed the
>10th Amendment of our U.S. Constitution. Our State Rights are being
>eroded by men like Jeff Flake, Trent Franks, J.D. Hayworth, Shaddeg
>and both of our Senators in an effort to bring their own religious
>doctrines into our lives. These men have run on Conservative labels
>and in fact are little religious dictators trying to legislate our
>personal choices. There is no expensive federal bill they will not
>vote for if the King of the Hill (G.W. Bush) requests it. In my
>point of view, they are not Conservative but simply religious wackos
>who will not allow our freedoms to remain our own. I would like to
>see them all thrown out of office in 2006!
I see them all as doing exactly what they should do given the job
description. Represent 280 million individuals???? Please, that's
ubsurd. Spend a few hours questioning why it makes sense to ask 2
senators to act in the "best interest of each individual of Arizona",
and so on down the line of Representatives.
My conclusion fresh into college was, "that's impossible!" Maybe
what these reps should be doing (and are actually doing) is: attempt
to discover what is best for every human, and then pass a law to
ensure they each do so. At the time, it sounded doable to me. Now
however, I recognize the fact that NO HUMAN ON EARTH KNOWS ME LIKE I
KNOW ME. Let me decide...for me!
>My definition of a Fiscal Conservative is as follows: A desire for
>limited government; individual freedoms guaranteed and personal
>responsibilities given back to all Americans. Anything less than
>this would be unacceptable to me. We had these freedoms when I was
>growing up and they are now being removed by an intrusive form of
>government that would have been totally unacceptable during the
>writing of the Constitution.
Understood.
>Where to start on waste and abuse of our taxes? Unless you follow
>the actions of the U.S. Congress, you will never know. Do the
>research and you will see the billions of dollars that are spent on
>pork issues simply to buy the votes of the U.S. Congress members.
Any substance that I earn which is forcably removed from my
possession becomes pork, IMO. Withholding taxes using the threat of
jail time (USC Title 26) is that force. Assuming authority over
individuals, like a god, the US government and State governments give
those with the guns the power/force to do as they "see fit".
See fit = public's interest.
> Sandy Price
Nice to meet you electronically, Sandy.
Jack
"skip the vote!"
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
wrote:
> Look guys, I have been actively involved in politics since 1950.
My entire
> family had been Republicans who demanded a limited government from
the D.C.
> right down to the state Capital in California. Even in those early
years,
> the more people who immigrated to America demanded government
programs to
> take care of them. This was absolutely harmful to people from
coast to
> coast. It was obscene for Ike to fight communism by adding "Under
God" into
> our pledge of allegiance and it seemed to most of us the first step
to tell
> the world that America was a Christian nation. None of us could
believe
> that the American people actually accepted this, but many did.
If you read the Constitution carefully (not implying that you have
not), it is clear that an English speaking person COULD take the
collective use of language as well as many other explicit statements
as implying: that each American is to be his/her brother's keeper.
That is to say, that if one of us is left behind economically (due to
ANY reason, self inflicted or victimized), the citizens collectively
must ensure those less fortunate are helped along.
Section 8 Powers of Congress:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."
This very sentence is vague for sure, but I can come up with all
kinds of "welfare and defenses" that I "have a right to" based on
this simple sentence...ones that Congress must consider, especially
when 51% of voters approve.
Falling back to the good old days, I argue, means that voters as
a "united states" must simply be at the whim of the majority voters,
where each individual is relying on the majority of voters to pass
laws to ensure our INDIVIDUALIZED needs are met. Even if voters
tried to erase what has been done and start over with the
Constitution, voters will simply be setting up America to repeat
history, more or less.
> After WW2, we had millions of non-Christians immigrating to
America and
> they were welcomed with open arms by all of us because we felt that
our own
> scientific and defense areas of expertise could use an influence of
European
> scientists and weapons designers. Sadly our own government schools
had
> begun to falter in their quality of academic education and it was
just the
> first attempt at dumbing down the children of America. Why would
the
> Governors of the states allow this decline of academics to happen?
As if the Governors of the states have expertise on education.
They're politicians, vote counters, majority supporters.
> When the immigrants put their children in our government schools
(Public
> schools) they were horrified at the level of achievement desired
from these
> schools. Many private schools had begun to pop up and many of the
new
> immigrants poured into them. In California where my family had
lived for
> generations, the study of why the schools were lacking in academics
was made
> and it came down to ill-prepared teachers who could not keep up
with the new
> math and science subjects and they began to rewrite the curriculum
to suit
> what they could teach.
>
>
>
> A deeper study showed that with our missile programs coming to a
slowdown
> and the wars taking the focus from our local governments who were
bidding
> for the big contracts, our world of independent freedoms was
beginning to
> decline.
>
>
>
> The key to the success of America is academic education from first
grade and
> it seemed to fade out. By the time my own kids were starting to
learn about
> the world, it was obvious that our public schools were boring the
hell out
> of the kids and many social issues began to surface within the
> neighborhoods. I had been bored in the lower grades and I was sent
to a
> private school where I began to catch the thrill of books. I
couldn't get
> enough books to read and decided to do the same for my children.
We had no
> television in the home but a large selection of books on
everything. I
> would read aloud to my kids and then turn that over to the oldest
to read to
> the youngest and our world became a theater of all the great books
in
> literature that had been written. We spent a couple of years on
science
> fiction to broaden their view of t he world.
>
>
>
> Instead of drugs, my kids got into horse and dog breeding and even
when in
> highschool took many classes from the community colleges in things
like
> agriculture and health studies. There friends simply sat in front
of the
> boob tube soaking up ads on things they wanted their parents to buy
for
> them.
>
>
>
> We became interested in evolution and how 2 generations of
Americans had
> folded up their brains for television shows and cartoons. It is
essential
> to become proactive in our lives and take the personal
responsibility for
> what we do as well as what we are. My kids are all actively
working for
> American freedoms, how to survive without killing the people of
other
> countries and how to protect what is left of our freedoms which are
being
> squelched by a corrupt form of government.
Sounds like you've had an enjoyable experience (and more to come)
with your children. Congrats and here's to (more to come).
> We are way ahead of just sitting and whining but we are actively
searching
> for leaders who will work to keep the government out of our lives.
The
> whole purpose of the FSP was to get out from under an oppressive and
> redundant government.
IMO, government cannot be anything other than oppresive, and
especially redundant if 51% approval is all that is needed in order
to make decisions for EACH INDIVIDUAL.
> So we can be active or not; whatever suits us. I keep a very close
eye on
> my state government as well as the federal intrusion into my
personal
> decisions and will search for candidates and vote them into
office. I do
> know that the bunch we have in Arizona are terrified of working for
freedom
> and will do anything suggested by President Bush and will turn
Arizona into
> a mud room for the rest of the nation.
>
>
>
> FSP knows the dangers of ignoring their children's education and
they are
> working to build the kind of schools they feel are necessary. I
did the
> same thing only took a couple of jobs to pay for private schools.
It has
> paid off as all the kids are professionals and are helping others
to get out
> of the boring routines taught by the homes and schools.
>
>
>
> Sandy
We appear to agree on many problems with status quo methods of
protecting freedoms. However, what about the methods of enhancing
each Individual's actual freedoms?
Jack
for fun I decided to respond: while it is fun to examine small items of the
constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole. viewed as whole it is
clear that the current welfare police state is an abomination (both to the
founders and god). there will come a time when support of the system will be a
clear sin. till that time I will grudgely pay taxes. christian peper
----- Original Message -----
From: olehenry1
To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Constitution's limits [was: I'm new to this
forum]
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
wrote:
> Look guys, I have been actively involved in politics since 1950.
My entire
> family had been Republicans who demanded a limited government from
the D.C.
> right down to the state Capital in California. Even in those early
years,
> the more people who immigrated to America demanded government
programs to
> take care of them. This was absolutely harmful to people from
coast to
> coast. It was obscene for Ike to fight communism by adding "Under
God" into
> our pledge of allegiance and it seemed to most of us the first step
to tell
> the world that America was a Christian nation. None of us could
believe
> that the American people actually accepted this, but many did.
If you read the Constitution carefully (not implying that you have
not), it is clear that an English speaking person COULD take the
collective use of language as well as many other explicit statements
as implying: that each American is to be his/her brother's keeper.
That is to say, that if one of us is left behind economically (due to
ANY reason, self inflicted or victimized), the citizens collectively
must ensure those less fortunate are helped along.
Section 8 Powers of Congress:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."
This very sentence is vague for sure, but I can come up with all
kinds of "welfare and defenses" that I "have a right to" based on
this simple sentence...ones that Congress must consider, especially
when 51% of voters approve.
Falling back to the good old days, I argue, means that voters as
a "united states" must simply be at the whim of the majority voters,
where each individual is relying on the majority of voters to pass
laws to ensure our INDIVIDUALIZED needs are met. Even if voters
tried to erase what has been done and start over with the
Constitution, voters will simply be setting up America to repeat
history, more or less.
> After WW2, we had millions of non-Christians immigrating to
America and
> they were welcomed with open arms by all of us because we felt that
our own
> scientific and defense areas of expertise could use an influence of
European
> scientists and weapons designers. Sadly our own government schools
had
> begun to falter in their quality of academic education and it was
just the
> first attempt at dumbing down the children of America. Why would
the
> Governors of the states allow this decline of academics to happen?
As if the Governors of the states have expertise on education.
They're politicians, vote counters, majority supporters.
> When the immigrants put their children in our government schools
(Public
> schools) they were horrified at the level of achievement desired
from these
> schools. Many private schools had begun to pop up and many of the
new
> immigrants poured into them. In California where my family had
lived for
> generations, the study of why the schools were lacking in academics
was made
> and it came down to ill-prepared teachers who could not keep up
with the new
> math and science subjects and they began to rewrite the curriculum
to suit
> what they could teach.
>
>
>
> A deeper study showed that with our missile programs coming to a
slowdown
> and the wars taking the focus from our local governments who were
bidding
> for the big contracts, our world of independent freedoms was
beginning to
> decline.
>
>
>
> The key to the success of America is academic education from first
grade and
> it seemed to fade out. By the time my own kids were starting to
learn about
> the world, it was obvious that our public schools were boring the
hell out
> of the kids and many social issues began to surface within the
> neighborhoods. I had been bored in the lower grades and I was sent
to a
> private school where I began to catch the thrill of books. I
couldn't get
> enough books to read and decided to do the same for my children.
We had no
> television in the home but a large selection of books on
everything. I
> would read aloud to my kids and then turn that over to the oldest
to read to
> the youngest and our world became a theater of all the great books
in
> literature that had been written. We spent a couple of years on
science
> fiction to broaden their view of t he world.
>
>
>
> Instead of drugs, my kids got into horse and dog breeding and even
when in
> highschool took many classes from the community colleges in things
like
> agriculture and health studies. There friends simply sat in front
of the
> boob tube soaking up ads on things they wanted their parents to buy
for
> them.
>
>
>
> We became interested in evolution and how 2 generations of
Americans had
> folded up their brains for television shows and cartoons. It is
essential
> to become proactive in our lives and take the personal
responsibility for
> what we do as well as what we are. My kids are all actively
working for
> American freedoms, how to survive without killing the people of
other
> countries and how to protect what is left of our freedoms which are
being
> squelched by a corrupt form of government.
Sounds like you've had an enjoyable experience (and more to come)
with your children. Congrats and here's to (more to come).
> We are way ahead of just sitting and whining but we are actively
searching
> for leaders who will work to keep the government out of our lives.
The
> whole purpose of the FSP was to get out from under an oppressive and
> redundant government.
IMO, government cannot be anything other than oppresive, and
especially redundant if 51% approval is all that is needed in order
to make decisions for EACH INDIVIDUAL.
> So we can be active or not; whatever suits us. I keep a very close
eye on
> my state government as well as the federal intrusion into my
personal
> decisions and will search for candidates and vote them into
office. I do
> know that the bunch we have in Arizona are terrified of working for
freedom
> and will do anything suggested by President Bush and will turn
Arizona into
> a mud room for the rest of the nation.
>
>
>
> FSP knows the dangers of ignoring their children's education and
they are
> working to build the kind of schools they feel are necessary. I
did the
> same thing only took a couple of jobs to pay for private schools.
It has
> paid off as all the kids are professionals and are helping others
to get out
> of the boring routines taught by the homes and schools.
>
>
>
> Sandy
We appear to agree on many problems with status quo methods of
protecting freedoms. However, what about the methods of enhancing
each Individual's actual freedoms?
Jack
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "christian peper"
<cbp429@h...> wrote:
> for fun I decided to respond: while it is fun to examine small
items >of the constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole.
viewed >as whole it is clear that the current welfare police state is
an >abomination (both to the founders and god).
Hi Christian (meaning Christ follower, correct?)
Here is Section 8 in its entirety:
"Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several
States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on
the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and
fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and
current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high
Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules
concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the
Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and
for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of
the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the
Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such
District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of
particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of
the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority
over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the
State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts,
Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying
into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by
this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof."
******
The so-called "public" has a lot of duties according to this
document. Very (un)clearly for example, it states that the federal
government can regulate commerce between the states. I can point out
a number of abominable Uniformity Acts and numerous commerce laws
which naturally DID occur with reference to the Constitution.
What about the two ideas of providing for general welfare and common
defense? These are not insignificant statements and are not at all
out of context.
Why does the Constitution give the so-called "the people" imagined
authority over a "POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS"? Why do you support
this tax-dollar enhanced monopoly?
To promote the progress of sciences and arts...takes money. Where do
you suppose "the people" are going to get the money? What do you
suppose it takes in order for "the people" to feel justified in
confiscating your money? It takes 51%; they add in big guns for
effect.
The Constitution is poorly written. The Constitution is prepared and
ready for interpretation. Once an interpretation is agreed on by 51%
of voters, VIOLA! you have a new law forced on 100% of voters and
100% of nonvoters. A new law funded by 100% of voters and nonvoters.
Attempting to RE-interpret the founding documents is going to get us
nowhere again and again. Maybe a fun game to play for some,
frustratingly retarded to me.
Please offer arguments (using the Constitution or other "legal" docs)
supporting use of such documents for developing a place in which
you'd like to live.
>there will come a time when support of the system will be a clear
>sin. till that time I >will grudgely pay taxes. christian peper
Define sin.
Define system. Every system?
What will make it clear for you?
Until this time of clarity, I assume paying taxes would not be
negative to you.
Everyone of these words typed above was accomplished while in a
smiley, joyous disposition. Want you to know that I have nothing but
warm regard for you. Therefore, this writing is intended to
encourage a pleasureable investigation into our minds.
Jack
My name is Christian, and yes, I am a follower of Christ. christianity has been
stolen by the elite, true Christianity is very very socially (but not fiscally)
liberal. jeasus would support legal drugs, gay marriage etc. as for the
Constitution, yes, it was a bit vague and subject to interpretation like the
bible but the overall thrust of it is without a drought very liberal. the the
bible is also very freeing and libertarian: living under the law of love and not
the written law (see the sermon on the mount). do you know that Jesus baptized
with hemp oil? best wishes, chistian
----- Original Message -----
From: olehenry1
To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Constitution's limits
--- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "christian peper"
<cbp429@h...> wrote:
> for fun I decided to respond: while it is fun to examine small
items >of the constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole.
viewed >as whole it is clear that the current welfare police state is
an >abomination (both to the founders and god).
Hi Christian (meaning Christ follower, correct?)
Here is Section 8 in its entirety:
"Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several
States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on
the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and
fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and
current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high
Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules
concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the
Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and
for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of
the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the
Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such
District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of
particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of
the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority
over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the
State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts,
Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying
into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by
this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
Department or Officer thereof."
******
The so-called "public" has a lot of duties according to this
document. Very (un)clearly for example, it states that the federal
government can regulate commerce between the states. I can point out
a number of abominable Uniformity Acts and numerous commerce laws
which naturally DID occur with reference to the Constitution.
What about the two ideas of providing for general welfare and common
defense? These are not insignificant statements and are not at all
out of context.
Why does the Constitution give the so-called "the people" imagined
authority over a "POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS"? Why do you support
this tax-dollar enhanced monopoly?
To promote the progress of sciences and arts...takes money. Where do
you suppose "the people" are going to get the money? What do you
suppose it takes in order for "the people" to feel justified in
confiscating your money? It takes 51%; they add in big guns for
effect.
The Constitution is poorly written. The Constitution is prepared and
ready for interpretation. Once an interpretation is agreed on by 51%
of voters, VIOLA! you have a new law forced on 100% of voters and
100% of nonvoters. A new law funded by 100% of voters and nonvoters.
Attempting to RE-interpret the founding documents is going to get us
nowhere again and again. Maybe a fun game to play for some,
frustratingly retarded to me.
Please offer arguments (using the Constitution or other "legal" docs)
supporting use of such documents for developing a place in which
you'd like to live.
>there will come a time when support of the system will be a clear
>sin. till that time I >will grudgely pay taxes. christian peper
Define sin.
Define system. Every system?
What will make it clear for you?
Until this time of clarity, I assume paying taxes would not be
negative to you.
Everyone of these words typed above was accomplished while in a
smiley, joyous disposition. Want you to know that I have nothing but
warm regard for you. Therefore, this writing is intended to
encourage a pleasureable investigation into our minds.
Jack
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http://keenefreepress.editme.com/SSCardBurn
On Saturday, November 12, Free State activists from
Keene and as far away as New London Connecticut
gathered to defy national identification systems. In
full view of the social security administration,
social security cards were burned, sending a message
that national ID will not be accepted. Around twenty
activists gathered to take part in the torching
festivities.
When Social Security was first foisted on America, the
cards were imprinted with, "Not to be used for
Identification." People were wary of the tyranny
involved with a national ID card, so the government
had to promise that the Social Security number would
never be used for ID. They have broken that promise.
As Americans became resigned to the idea of having a
national number, the promise was quietly removed from
the cards. Now, of course, the social security number
is used for so many purposes, it is a defacto national
ID number. Doctors, banks, motor vehicle departments,
utilities companies…the list is endless of groups
wanting your national ID number, groups having nothing
to do with social security and retirement funds.
Now, with the passage of the Real ID act, the National
ID card is outright law, and no longer just a defacto
national ID number. Individuals wishing to travel in
this country, whether it be driving themselves or
riding on trains, busses, and airplanes will now be
required to carry their national ID card, with their
national ID number included on it. Even walking in
public requires a person to carry their ID, as recent
court decisions show. National ID cards are to carry
"biometric data" probably in the form of a RFID chip,
which can be read from a distance. Personal data
about you will be available to any hacker on the
street, in addition to being given to the Mexican and
Canadian governments.
National ID cards have long been a tool of tyrannical
government. A government which abuses and therefore
fears its populace needs to be able to track them at
all times. No government who governs justly need
barricade itself in, as Washington D.C. has done. A
government who remains the servant of the people need
not track the peoples' every move.
To protest the injustice of the national ID number and
national ID card, Russell Kanning, Kat Dillon and
Lauren Canario of NHFree.com burned their social
security cards in front of the social security
administration in Concord, NH. A battered Lady
Liberty made her appearance. National ID and the
Patriot Act have given Ms. Liberty a rough few years.
Signs at the event read, "Your number citizen, Welcome
to the Machine," and "Social Security: The Big Lie.
World's largest pyramid scheme. Ponzi would be
proud." Signs were left for SS Admin employees to
enjoy the next workday. Kanning left the event with
the satisfaction of knowing that, "I finally said no
to the government on issues of being numbered and
being a part of the social security system." Young
William G., age 4, who attended the event stated
emphatically, "I don't want to be a number!"
Social Security Card Burn, The Movie is now available,
free!
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/NHfree-SS_Card_Burn.mov
(About 5 1/2 minutes)
For more information, visit:
http://nhfree.comhttp://freestateproject.org
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who
can labor in freedom. – Albert Einstein
--New Hampshire Underground
http://nhunderground.com/
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Kat,
Excellent writing!!!
Denise
Denise Bensusan
Citizens for Future Generations
SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/index.html/
"War ... should only be declared by the authority
of the people, whose toils and treasures are to
support its burdens, instead of the government
which is to reap its fruits." ~ : James Madison (1751-1836)
----- Original Message -----
From: <arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com>
To: <arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:31 AM
Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Digest Number 125
There is 1 message in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Freestaters Defying National ID
From: Kat Dillon <bookish_lass@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:12:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Kat Dillon <bookish_lass@...>
Subject: Freestaters Defying National ID
http://keenefreepress.editme.com/SSCardBurn
On Saturday, November 12, Free State activists from
Keene and as far away as New London Connecticut
gathered to defy national identification systems. In
full view of the social security administration,
social security cards were burned, sending a message
that national ID will not be accepted. Around twenty
activists gathered to take part in the torching
festivities.
When Social Security was first foisted on America, the
cards were imprinted with, "Not to be used for
Identification." People were wary of the tyranny
involved with a national ID card, so the government
had to promise that the Social Security number would
never be used for ID. They have broken that promise.
As Americans became resigned to the idea of having a
national number, the promise was quietly removed from
the cards. Now, of course, the social security number
is used for so many purposes, it is a defacto national
ID number. Doctors, banks, motor vehicle departments,
utilities companies.the list is endless of groups
wanting your national ID number, groups having nothing
to do with social security and retirement funds.
Now, with the passage of the Real ID act, the National
ID card is outright law, and no longer just a defacto
national ID number. Individuals wishing to travel in
this country, whether it be driving themselves or
riding on trains, busses, and airplanes will now be
required to carry their national ID card, with their
national ID number included on it. Even walking in
public requires a person to carry their ID, as recent
court decisions show. National ID cards are to carry
"biometric data" probably in the form of a RFID chip,
which can be read from a distance. Personal data
about you will be available to any hacker on the
street, in addition to being given to the Mexican and
Canadian governments.
National ID cards have long been a tool of tyrannical
government. A government which abuses and therefore
fears its populace needs to be able to track them at
all times. No government who governs justly need
barricade itself in, as Washington D.C. has done. A
government who remains the servant of the people need
not track the peoples' every move.
To protest the injustice of the national ID number and
national ID card, Russell Kanning, Kat Dillon and
Lauren Canario of NHFree.com burned their social
security cards in front of the social security
administration in Concord, NH. A battered Lady
Liberty made her appearance. National ID and the
Patriot Act have given Ms. Liberty a rough few years.
Signs at the event read, "Your number citizen, Welcome
to the Machine," and "Social Security: The Big Lie.
World's largest pyramid scheme. Ponzi would be
proud." Signs were left for SS Admin employees to
enjoy the next workday. Kanning left the event with
the satisfaction of knowing that, "I finally said no
to the government on issues of being numbered and
being a part of the social security system." Young
William G., age 4, who attended the event stated
emphatically, "I don't want to be a number!"
Social Security Card Burn, The Movie is now available,
free!
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/NHfree-SS_Card_Burn.mov
(About 5 1/2 minutes)
For more information, visit:
http://nhfree.comhttp://freestateproject.org
Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
who can labor in freedom. - Albert Einstein
--New Hampshire Underground
http://nhunderground.com/
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mining-land change may alter West
Shaun McKinnon
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 24, 2005 12:00 AM
In a late-night vote overshadowed by sexier sound bites about war and taxes, the
U.S. House rewrote parts of a 133-year-old mining law, stoking a decades-old
battle over who should control vast open spaces across the West.
The stakes are high: billions of dollars in mining revenues, $2.4 billion a year
in Arizona alone, and millions of acres of public land spread out among forests
and rangelands or nestled next to national parks and monuments.
The House measure would allow mining companies or other private interests to buy
the land and develop it, even if there was nothing there to mine. It could open
impoverished areas to economic investment but close scenic spots to recreational
users and strip those spots of environmental protection.
Backers of the rewrite say it's an attempt to modernize outdated laws and
protect the economic health of rural mining communities, which have suffered
with the ebb and flow of ore prices. They insist the bill includes strong
protection for sensitive lands and enough mining-related requirements to fend
off speculators. It also creates a richer revenue source, they say, raising the
purchase price of a mining claim from as little as $2.50 an acre to at least
$1,000 an acre.
But even at that price, the result is a near-giveaway of public lands, opponents
say, who paint a darker picture, one rife with abuse of already weak laws. They
say the proposed changes are not so much about mining as about opening valuable
land to developers, who would build ski resorts, housing developments and
shopping centers on the back doorsteps of "special places" like the Grand
Canyon.
One environmental group produced an illustration depicting a sprawling
subdivision on the Canyon's North Rim, a community they named "Pombotown," after
Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., the committee chairman who ushered the bill to the
House floor last weekend.
The revisions were tacked on to a huge deficit-reduction package that survived
by two votes, but the changes were not included in the Senate version. Both
sides are girding for a final fight when negotiators try to reconcile
differences after the Thanksgiving recess.
"People in Arizona should be very concerned about it," said Don Steuter, who
watches mining issues for Arizona's Sierra Club chapter. "There has been so much
abuse in the past with these laws. There's a long history of it, and they're
pointing us even more in that direction. It could turn into a fire sale."
Industry still lucrative
The bill has put Arizona's conservationists at odds with one of the state's
oldest industries, which is still among its most lucrative. Arizona regularly
leads the nation in copper production and ranks among the top five states in
silver, gemstones, sand and gravel, and other metals and minerals. In 2003, the
state's mineral production topped $2.4 billion; the copper industry alone
produced $2.7 billion in direct and indirect economic impacts.
The Environmental Working Group estimates that there are nearly 642,000 acres of
existing mining claims on public lands in Arizona, with nearly a third of the
land in Yavapai, Pinal and Mohave counties. Thousands of those claims are inside
a national forest, park or wilderness area or within five miles of one.
What worries many conservationists is that, with the change, mining companies
could not only buy the land but develop it without the public environmental
impact studies required under existing laws. The changes could also derail land
exchanges that returned some value to the public, Steuter said.
The bill's author, Rep. Jim Gibbons, said that's not his intent. Gibbons,
R-Nev., said the measure was written to promote economic development in the
rural West, largely by privatizing the land where mining claims are filed.
Under his proposal, a mining company could skip some of the costliest
environmental studies required before digging into public lands. And once the
ore was exhausted, they could leave behind for local communities the roads,
power lines and other infrastructure they now must erase.
"Without this measure, the jobs and infrastructure of these communities can
literally disappear when a mine closes," he said.
His bill lifts an 11-year moratorium on mining claim patents, the term for the
purchase of land where ore is found, and gives companies more leeway in staking
their claims, adding economic development as an allowed use. Companies would
also face less-stringent standards on what constitutes a mining operation.
Simple "mineral development work" would validate a claim under the Gibbons
measure.
The National Mining Association and other lobbying groups endorsed the rewrite.
Association President Kraig Naasz said the measure would "give mining
communities greater opportunities for sustained economic growth and help attract
investments." If the mining companies can't purchase the public land outright,
"these critical assets must be removed."
Parks threatened?
Even some opponents concede the idea doesn't sound nefarious, but they say the
consequences of the bill are buried in language that has confounded experts on
both sides.
For example, in one section the measure specifically bars the sale of lands
within national parks, wildlife refuges, national conservation areas or
wilderness areas. In another section, that ban is apparently modified with the
phrase "subject to valid existing rights."
Environmental groups say that would let a company dust off an old mining claim
inside a park or a monument, buy the land and develop it, a charge Gibbons
dismisses as a scare tactic.
Other proposals that look good on the surface are similarly flawed, foes say.
The bill's supporters trumpet the increase in price to purchase a mining claim
from as low as $2.50 an acre, a rate that survived from 1872, to $1,000 an acre
or the appraised market value, whichever is higher.
The problem, according to several groups, is that appraisals on mining claims
are usually low, sometimes as low as $100 to $200 an acre, in part because of
the typically rugged location and in part because the value of any minerals is
not included. As a result, a claim would rarely cost more than $1,000 an acre.
Open space at issue
Equally troubling to the conservation groups is the loss of open space. The law
would let mining companies buy not only parcels with mining claims but land
adjacent to such claims or operations. Backers say that provision would promote
better management, but opponents say it unfairly locks up too much land.
"This is a loss for Arizonans," said Tucson resident Mary Kidwell, who has
fought mining proposals in the Empire-Fagan Valley area southeast of Tucson. "We
could soon find 'private property' signs blocking the trailhead of favorite
hunting grounds or picnic spots."
Conservation groups say that at the very least, Gibbons and Pombo should have
introduced the bill separately, instead of attaching it to such a wide-ranging
and politically sensitive measure. Some groups suspect the mining rewrites fell
victim to other deals and they fear it could survive talks with the Senate in
the same way.
But Gibbons said he held several hearings on the proposal and has hidden
nothing.
Denise
Denise Bensusan
Citizens for Future Generations
SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/index.html/
"War ... should only be declared by the authority
of the people, whose toils and treasures are to
support its burdens, instead of the government
which is to reap its fruits." ~ : James Madison (1751-1836)
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