You refuse to directly answer posts #25623 and #25624
where I present facts and evidence, which also included
left wing sources. Also I followed their $PLC money trail.

You tried the smokescreen game saying I was talking about conspiracies. All you
do is change the subject, and not back
up your false statements. There are many sources to tell you
who founded the SPLC, they will tell you Joseph Levin and Morris Dees - not
Christians.

If you act deceitfully, I will call you out. Christians react
to spirit you know, not just words.

I welcome honest and reasonable debate, since none of us mere
men have perfect views, but apparently that isn't coming from
you.


Mark







--- In apologetics@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Perdue <letsgobravesfan@...> wrote:
>
>  Just because you say something is untrue doesn't make it so. Simply saying
that a fact I post isn't true does not automatically make me a "game player."
You need to get a grip. I hope you don't treat nonchristians this way.
>
> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Mark Loftus <mloftus955@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mark Loftus <mloftus955@...>
> Subject: [apologetics and theology] Re: SPLC: Rabidly Anti-Gay Westboro
Baptist Church Now Targeting Jews
> To: apologetics@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 8:36 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No, I'm questioning you because of your deceit and twisting of things I've
said, avoiding questions, etc.
>
> If you want to debate honestly, fine, I gave two posts with facts and evidence
that you never answered or responded to.
>
> You started by making a false statement that the SPLC was started by
Christians, which I showed was false in my response. You never answered that.
>
> I don't want to hear anything from you unless you answer the points I made...
No more smokescreens.
>
> There are liberals and others who I disagree with and respect, but not you -
you are a gameplayer from what I've seen, that is not a Christian spirit.
>
> You're acting like a deceiver, so I have little interest in going back and
forth with you.
>
> --- In apologetics@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Perdue <letsgobravesfan@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > You're questioning my salvation because we can't agree on historical facts?
> >
> > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...>
> > Subject: [apologetics and theology] Re: SPLC: Rabidly Anti-Gay Westboro
Baptist Church Now Targeting Jews
> > To: apologetics@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 4:15 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Enough with the deceit, you gave wrong information and you won't admit
you're wrong. You said the group was started by Christians which is a false
statement, and you can't/won't back it up.
> > I came up with the facts and proof, you came up with error.
> >
> > Until you can back up your statements, which were false, there
> > is no point in continuing.
> >
> > You simply won't admit you're wrong.
> > I'm wondering now if you're a Christian.
> > So cut the deceit, and be straight, or don't bother.
> >
> > Solomon wrote, "He who speaks the truth gives honest evidence,
> > but a false witness utters deceit". You sure sound like the latter.
> >
> > --- In apologetics@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Perdue <letsgobravesfan@ ...>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is rather absurd. Usually when someone
advocates a conspiracy theory, or a new view of history the burden of proof is
on him or her. In this case you arn't advocating a "new" way in interpreting
events but a revisionist history that no one who dosn't have an agenda would
believe.
> > >  
> > > Joseph Perdue 
> > >  
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...>
> > > Subject: [apologetics and theology] Re: SPLC: Rabidly Anti-Gay Westboro
Baptist Church Now Targeting Jews
> > > To: apologetics@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:41 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow, you're unbelievable. ..
> > > Your previous post showed that you didn't know what you are talking about.
You claim the SPLC was started by Christians, that statement showed that you
don't know what you are talking about. Then I came back with facts and evidence
for which you have no answers. I sure don't think anyone would call Morris Dees
as a Christian, not that he even claims to be.
> > >
> > > And that's what you have to say??? Talk about pride, you can take St.
Augustine's advice since you don't know what the SPLC does.
> > > Or is it that you just weanted the last word with nothing to say.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > --- In apologetics@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Perdue <letsgobravesfan@ ...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think you need to refer to the St. Augustine quote I posted.
> > > >  
> > > > Joseph Perdue
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...>
> > > > Subject: [apologetics and theology] Re: SPLC: Rabidly Anti-Gay Westboro
Baptist Church Now Targeting Jews
> > > > To: apologetics@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 6:30 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In apologetics@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Perdue <letsgobravesfan@
...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Southern Poverty Law Center was founded by Christian lay people >
and pastors
> > > >
> > > > Wow! You sure have rose colored glasses. Most Christians won't believe
you either.
> > > >
> > > > You clearly don't know what you are talking about. It was founded in
1971 by Morris Dees and Joseph J. Levin Jr. as a civil rights law firm. Morris
Dees and Joseph Levin aren't Christians. Morris Dees is a known socialist who is
part of the Open Borders Lobby, among other things. Yes, they try to use one
group of people against another in their war against Christianity. I suppose you
haven't heard of Morris Dees.
> > > >
> > > > > with the goal of ending the opression of Jim Crow laws. Today they >
exsist to fight descrimination.
> > > >
> > > > That is their claim, and they do some of that as a cover. But there is a
whole lot more to that group than what's on the surface. They are as much of a
hate group as those weird ones they fight against.
> > > > Oh, and they love to divide and discredit up the Christians whenever
they can.
> > > >
> > > > Their was against the KKK and the like is understandable and needs to be
done. But when they attack many others, like Roy Moore et al, it begins to look
a lot different.
> > > >
> > > > > While it can no longer be called a "Christian" group as it once
> > > > > was, we shouldn't critize them for helping the oppresed.
> > > >
> > > > It never was a "Christian" group, but had some "Christian" members for
credibility. This groups is neither southern or poor, this is a very rich group
who uses the poor. The SPLC may not hate you, but it hates many Christians.
> > > >
> > > > > If the SPLC is a socialist group, then Dr. King and the entire
> > > > > civil rights movement was socialistic.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong, in many ways MLK wasn't even a democrat. There were many
conservatives who were part of his marches and sympathetic toward him. King and
his family were opposed to abortion, for example, so he could never been much of
a socialist. Some of those who followed him were, however. Dr. King did indeed
have the interests of African Americans at heart, unlike the SPLC who have their
own agenda.
> > > >
> > > > Let's put emotion aside, and look at what the record shows:
> > > >
> > > > SPLC has an enormous endowment of more than $152 million, according to
its 2005 annual report. Its IRS Form 990 for the fiscal year ended Oct. 31,
2005, shows that the center took in gross receipts of $49.8 million that year,
$29.7 million of which consisted of contributions and grants.
> > > >
> > > > According to its balance sheet, by Oct. 31, 2005, its total assets had
ballooned from $173.2 million at the beginning of the fiscal year, to $189.4
million by year's end. SPLC's endowment is so large that it reported endowment
income of nearly $3.5 million, including interest income of $728,356.
> > > >
> > > > Although SPLC bills itself as a civil rights law firm, it devotes only a
fraction of its resources to actual legal work. Of the $28.9 million in expenses
it declared for the year ended Oct. 31, 2005, only $4.5 million went to
"providing legal services for victims of civil rights injustice and hate
crimes," and $837,907 for "specific assistance to individuals" in the form of
"litigation services," according to its Form 990. Roughly half of its
expenditures, $14.7 million, were devoted to "educating the general public,
public officials, teachers, students and law enforcement agencies and officers
with respect to issues of hate and intolerance and promoting tolerance of
differences through the schools."
> > > >
> > > > In the same period, SPLC paid attorney Morris Dees $297,559 in salary
and pension-plan contributions. On the list of nonprofit "employees who earned
more than their organization' s chief executive," (part of the Chronicle of
Philanthropy' s annual survey of top nonprofit executive salaries, published
September 28), Dees ranked 48th in the nation. SPLC President Richard Cohen took
home $274,838, but center co-founder Joseph L. Levin received only $171,904 for
his efforts as general counsel.
> > > >
> > > > SPLC Smear Tactics, Smearing Colin Powell, Condi Rice, etc.
> > > >
> > > > The SPLC has smeared black conservatives with relish, deriding them for
joining what he calls "a right-wing conspiracy" aimed at eliminating affirmative
action, abridging voting rights and reforming public education. In 2002, he told
an NAACP convention that black conservatives were participants in "an
interlocking network of funders, groups and activists... . They are the money,
the motivation and the movement behind vouchers, the legal assault on
affirmative action and other remedies for discrimination, attempts to
reapportion us out of office and attacks on equity everywhere." These
conservatives are "black hustlers and hucksters ... [who], like ventriloquists'
dummies, speak in their puppet master's voice," he said. Bond called anti-racial
quota campaigner Ward Connerly a "fraud" and a "con man."
> > > >
> > > > In February of this year, at Fayetteville State University in Arkansas,
Bond warned that Republicans' "idea of equal rights is the American flag and the
Confederate swastika flying side by side," the Fayetteville Observer reported.
When his comments provoked a firestorm of criticism, Bond lied, denying he
likened the GOP to the Nazi Party. He accused "right-wing blogs" of
mischaracterizing his statement: "I didn't say these things I'm alleged to have
said. There is no one in the audience who can say I said them." How wrong he
was: The Observer posted a 45-minute recording of Bond's speech online. In the
same speech, Bond implied that Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice were token
black appointees in the Bush Administration, which was using them as "human
shields against any criticism of their record on civil rights."
> > > >
> > > > More on Morris Dees later, he is much worse.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Mark Loftus <mloftus955@ ...>
> > > > > Subject: [apologetics and theology] Re: SPLC: Rabidly Anti-Gay
Westboro Baptist Church Now Targeting Jews
> > > > > To: apologetics@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 7:52 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In apologetics@ yahoogroups. com, Kwame <yusefii@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those who had not heard:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.splcente r.org/blog/ 2009/06/19/ rabidly-anti-
gay-westboro- baptist-church- now-targeting- jews/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hasten to say that the citation is not an endorsement of the SPLC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Kwame
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm glad you made that last statement regarding the SPLC, since this
socialist group is as hateful as those they criticize. The hatred of the SPLC is
directed at the Christians, as the rest who are of the adversary. Would the SPLC
bring up the many Christians killed in the name of socialism or communism. In
the last century, 66 million Christians were killed in the Soviet Bloc by the
Bolsheviks, not including non believers who were killed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not endorsing the Westboro Baptist Church. The Church has
enemies, but it takes wisdom, and the Lord, to overcome them. Not all who are
gay or Jewish are our enemy, many if most of them are not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>