Love,

Simone

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Kim Graae Munch
> kimgm@ wrote:
> >
> > Dear Simone,
> > They can, not with words but they can be used to give signs of various
> kinds, most known are cats, ravens, or owls, but all kind of animals can
> be used to some degree.
>
> That's exactly what the witch-finders claimed - that satan incorporated
> in animals, especially cats, ravens, owls, who were then attracted to
> witches, who had to be killed. This was superstitious bullshit of
> course, and I suspect that all claims of animals being used in this way
> is equally BS-Hey Frank, shut da fuck, will ya!
>
>
>
>
>
> A simple case is when you are just about doing something you shouldn't
> a bird may fly into the window glass with a big clash. I don't know the
> precise procedure, but I think it has to go through the group souls, but
> it should be possible for discarnated people or Angels to initiate it
> when authorized, that is within the flow of karma.
> > I am not sure about the elemental beings, it's a little weird, as
> their mind is the physical world where their physical manifestation is
> in the Astral world, just the opposite of animals.
> > Love,
> > Kim
> >
> > --- Den fre 6/8/10 skrev sim1dmg simonedim@:
> >
> > Fra: sim1dmg simonedim@
> > Emne: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Animal communicators
> > Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
> > Dato: fredag 6. august 2010 20.39
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear ATers,
> >
> > Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
> >
> > I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such an
> angel eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or maybe
> nature spirits or little people that, for some reason, had something to
> communicate but couldn't show themselves in their form could use an
> animal body to establish contact with humans?
> >
> > Hugs,
> >
> > Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)
> >
>

Olympias (375–316 BC) Greek princess of Epirus and devoted to a cult devoted to
Dyanisus, mother of Alexander the Great. Rumor has it that Alexander's father
once caught her in bed with a snake. She claimed it was the god's use in form of
a serpent.

Tarjei

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
<eltrigal78@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Kim Graae Munch
> <kimgm@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Simone,
> > They can, not with words but they can be used to give signs of various
> kinds, most known are cats, ravens, or owls, but all kind of animals can
> be used to some degree.
>
> That's exactly what the witch-finders claimed - that satan incorporated
> in animals, especially cats, ravens, owls, who were then attracted to
> witches, who had to be killed. This was superstitious bullshit of
> course, and I suspect that all claims of animals being used in this way
> is equally  BS-Hey Frank, shut da fuck, will ya!
>
>
>
>
>
>   A simple case is when you are just about doing something you shouldn't
> a bird may fly into the window glass with a big clash. I don't know the
> precise procedure, but I think it has to go through the group souls, but
> it should be possible for discarnated people or Angels to initiate it
> when authorized, that is within the flow of karma.
> > I am not sure about the elemental beings, it's a little weird, as
> their mind is the physical world where their physical manifestation is
> in the Astral world, just the opposite of animals.
> > Love,
> > Kim
> >
> > --- Den fre 6/8/10 skrev sim1dmg simonedim@:
> >
> > Fra: sim1dmg simonedim@
> > Emne: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Animal communicators
> > Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
> > Dato: fredag 6. august 2010 20.39
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Dear ATers,
> >
> > Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
> >
> > I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such an
> angel eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or maybe
> nature spirits or little people that, for some reason, had something to
> communicate but couldn't show themselves in their form could use an
> animal body to establish contact with humans?
> >
> > Hugs,
> >
> > Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)
> >
>

Grrr - have you tried googling 'FTS', Simone?

Very frustrating to me completely out of acronym clues; still FTS must
be far out - even viewed from Norway's outlandish position on our
strange & wonderous globe?  Anyway your welcoming hugs make this
insignificant - much obliged!

Though Are only posed two 'simple' questions, the loom is already
thickening significantly from my perspective, and the business of
collective weaving is seldom trivial - still inspiring and very
heartening to me in this case;  I assume your comment/suggestions regard
the 'Flensburger Heft' (the 'second' level - so to speak - of Are's
question)?

An item of particular significance to me is that an 'outside' human
mind/soul is present as the unique agent or medium at both levels of
'animal communication'.  The lack of control and accountability at this
central point of the communicative process voids any scientific approach
to and muddles any reflection on the phenomena proper - alas.  With no
further intelligence at this point we may only speculate, and Are is
left high and dry with his question/objections - much to my dislike . .
.

   "The kingdoms of Experience
   In the precious wind they rot
   While paupers change possessions
   Each one wishing for what the other has got
   And the princess and the prince
   Discuss what's real and what is not
   It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden"

- This fragment from my Z-files begged for some space.  D'you know, in
the Kingdom of Norway there is a princess charging her humble subjects
good money to educate them on how to speak with angels;  I think she's
even been known to offer some horse talk in this deal?

"Are answer; in the Flensburger hefts the animals talk as high
initiatives, knowing more than humans and understanding more, with
greater compassion. From all that I have seen in animals, from pigs
drinking the blood of their friends waiting to be slaughtered, horses
eating themselves to death (as we humans though), chicken, horses or
other animals showing no compassion or empathy with each other, elks not
aware of the areas where hunting is prohibited I have concluded that
they do not know or understand more than we do, usually less. BUT, they
understand body language very good, as this language is what they mostly
depend on. If they could talk, why then use this complicated body
languahe. Why don’t the bees just tel where the honey is, instead of
performing this complicated dance?!"

This compact passage of Are's has a lot speaking for it, I think.  In
describing general animal attributes it seems utterly unsentimental -
reflecting my own impression that sentimentality is a human 'flaw' not
shared by the animal world.  We may however share other traits, like
greed, grief for loss and some urge - at times - to bring comfort in
need, methinks . . .

Yes, I'm rambling again - not so sorry, but you're all welcome to hit me
on the head with some stick for trying to derail Are's subjects (there
is still the 'tick question' quite untouched and somewhat bulging - I'll
be back . . .)


Seriously yours,

JoS

sim1dmg wrote:
>
> Dear ATers,
> Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
> I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such
> an angel eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or
> maybe nature spirits or little people that, for some reason, had
> something to communicate but couldn't show themselves in their form
> could use an animal body to establish contact with humans?
> Hugs,
> Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)

Dear Kim,
I guess I understood: someone who supposedly communicates with the animal, perceives as coming from the animal something that, truly, is coming from him/herself.
Interesting, it's the opposite of the Clever Hans story, where the man thought that the answers were coming from the horse when they were coming from himself… hum, but how could Clever Hans read human mind if his own mind should be in the Astral plane?
I found a link on Clever Hans , in case someone didn't hear this story before: http://www.damninteresting.com/clever-hans-the-math-horse .  (Legend has it, Clever Hans now lives in a remote location in South America.)

Love,
Simone

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Simone,
> And you asks the right questions so I have to think new thoughts;-)
>
> When we take an animal to us, cats, dogs, cows, whatever, we replace their group ego, and that means precisely that, above their highest body our ego takes the group egos place, and that connection or responsibility will last forever. The logic in it is that the animal will get many new experiences and desires which may not be given back to the group ego and the animal will get karmic relations to the world of man.
>
> As you write, if you have astral sight you can see the auras of the animals, others may see the etheric body, and there see what sickness they have. A good doctor can do much the same by looking at the physical manifestation, even though he may not know how he do it, fully.
>
> But to 'talk' to the animal it should be something like consciously taking the animal in under your Ego, to be aware, but really few can do that. Another way is to understand the animal through empathy, more people can do that, but it's a lot fewer than many, who have high thoughts about their own empathy, thinks, most projects their own feelings out into their perception of the animal.
>
> Love,
> Kim
>
> --- Den lør 7/8/10 skrev sim1dmg simonedim@...:
>
>
>
>
> Dear Kim,
>
> Thank you for your explanation, you always have something very interesting to add: I didn't know about the physical manifestation of elemental beings in the Astral - it makes a lot of sense! So, the same state of clairvoyance, so to call, that would allow someone to `see' somebody's astral body, would make `visible' elemental beings physical bodies and animals minds. Could, perhaps, the communication with animals be just a clairvoyant ability just like seeing `auras'?
>
> Love,
>
> Simone
>
>
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Kim Graae Munch kimgm@ wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Dear Simone,
>
> > They can, not with words but they can be used to give signs of various kinds, most known are cats, ravens, or owls, but all kind of animals can be used to some degree. A simple case is when you are just about doing something you shouldn't a bird may fly into the window glass with a big clash. I don't know the precise procedure, but I think it has to go through the group souls, but it should be possible for discarnated people or Angels to initiate it when authorized, that is within the flow of karma.
>
> > I am not sure about the elemental beings, it's a little weird, as their mind is the physical world where their physical manifestation is in the Astral world, just the opposite of animals.
>
> > Love,
>
> > Kim
>
> >
>
> > --- Den fre 6/8/10 skrev sim1dmg simonedim@:
>
> >
>
> > Fra: sim1dmg simonedim@
>
> > Emne: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Animal communicators
>
> > Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Dato: fredag 6. august 2010 20.39
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dear ATers,
>
> >
>
> > Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
>
> >
>
> > I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such an angel eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or maybe nature spirits or little people that, for some reason, had something to communicate but couldn't show themselves in their form could use an animal body to establish contact with humans?
>
> >
>
> > Hugs,
>
> >
>
> > Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)
>
> >
>

Dear Are,
Nice to meet you and welcome again! :)
I said `Ah-ha!' when you mentioned birds; I ain't a communicator, animals don't
tell me a thing for decades, but when I was a small child I used to communicate
with a particular duck. I remember this duck as someone very dear from my
childhood, much beyond a pet. I had many pets, I love animals company, but never
felt I could communicate in any special way with them, except this duck.
It's a very precious skill, a gift you have.
Hugs,
Simone


--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Are Thoresen" <arethore@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Simone and Kim,
>
> Elemental beings can actually chose how to make contact with us, the
> incarnated humans. If the human have the abilities to "see" the physical
> manifestation of the elemental being in the astral world, they chose to give
> their communication this way, but remember that they always communicate
> "mirror-vice", that is that if they want you to go to the east they point to
> the west. If they use the animal world, especially the bird world, the
> communication is not twisted, it is straight forward.
>
>
>
> Are
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Simone,
> They can, not with words but they can be used to give signs of various
> kinds, most known are cats, ravens, or owls, but all kind of animals can be
> used to some degree. A simple case is when you are just about doing
> something you shouldn't a bird may fly into the window glass with a big
> clash. I don't know the precise procedure, but I think it has to go through
> the group souls, but it should be possible for discarnated people or Angels
> to initiate it when authorized, that is within the flow of karma.
> I am not sure about the elemental beings, it's a little weird, as their mind
> is the physical world where their physical manifestation is in the Astral
> world, just the opposite of animals.
> Love,
> Kim
>
> --- Den fre 6/8/10 skrev sim1dmg <simonedim@...>:
>
>
> Fr! a: sim1dmg <simonedim@...>
> Emne: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Animal communicators
> Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
> Dato: fredag 6. august 2010 20.39
>
>
>
> Dear ATers,
> Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
> I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such an angel
> eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or maybe nature spirits
> or little people that, for some reason, had something to communicate but
> couldn't show themselves in their form could use an animal body to establish
> contact with humans?
> Hugs,
> Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)
>

Dear Jo,
I'm glad to see you back here.
First, for the mysterious FTS: it stands for Frank Thomas Smith, AT's official
sweetheart. He uses to say where he lives is the `ass-end of the world" and
since it isn't (globally speaking) very far from where I am and his place is
apparently much closer to initial stages of civilization than my town, I
presumed I am beyond the ass-end of the world. We're very far from Scandinavia,
so you don't need to worry about it .
Very interesting you talked about the importance of body language for animals:
the Clever Hans story illustrates it perfectly!
I couldn't help wonder about autism (it's always in my mind) where there's an
impairment of body language understanding- isn't it curious it's so developed in
animals and absent in autistic humans - and gives sense to what I recently read
about autism from an anthroposophical source, where it says the autism somehow
represents humans in the future.
I'll write more later since I'm still trying to make sense of what I'm thinking…
Hugs,
Simone


--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Jo Selsjord <jo@...> wrote:
>
> Grrr - have you tried googling 'FTS', Simone?
>
> Very frustrating to me completely out of acronym clues; still FTS must
> be far out - even viewed from Norway's outlandish position on our
> strange & wonderous globe?  Anyway your welcoming hugs make this
> insignificant - much obliged!
>
> Though Are only posed two 'simple' questions, the loom is already
> thickening significantly from my perspective, and the business of
> collective weaving is seldom trivial - still inspiring and very
> heartening to me in this case;  I assume your comment/suggestions regard
> the 'Flensburger Heft' (the 'second' level - so to speak - of Are's
> question)?
>
> An item of particular significance to me is that an 'outside' human
> mind/soul is present as the unique agent or medium at both levels of
> 'animal communication'.  The lack of control and accountability at this
> central point of the communicative process voids any scientific approach
> to and muddles any reflection on the phenomena proper - alas.  With no
> further intelligence at this point we may only speculate, and Are is
> left high and dry with his question/objections - much to my dislike . .
> .
>
>   "The kingdoms of Experience
>   In the precious wind they rot
>   While paupers change possessions
>   Each one wishing for what the other has got
>   And the princess and the prince
>   Discuss what's real and what is not
>   It doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden"
>
> - This fragment from my Z-files begged for some space.  D'you know, in
> the Kingdom of Norway there is a princess charging her humble subjects
> good money to educate them on how to speak with angels;  I think she's
> even been known to offer some horse talk in this deal?
>
> "Are answer; in the Flensburger hefts the animals talk as high
> initiatives, knowing more than humans and understanding more, with
> greater compassion. From all that I have seen in animals, from pigs
> drinking the blood of their friends waiting to be slaughtered, horses
> eating themselves to death (as we humans though), chicken, horses or
> other animals showing no compassion or empathy with each other, elks not
> aware of the areas where hunting is prohibited I have concluded that
> they do not know or understand more than we do, usually less. BUT, they
> understand body language very good, as this language is what they mostly
> depend on. If they could talk, why then use this complicated body
> languahe. Why don't the bees just tel where the honey is, instead of
> performing this complicated dance?!"
>
> This compact passage of Are's has a lot speaking for it, I think.  In
> describing general animal attributes it seems utterly unsentimental -
> reflecting my own impression that sentimentality is a human 'flaw' not
> shared by the animal world.  We may however share other traits, like
> greed, grief for loss and some urge - at times - to bring comfort in
> need, methinks . . .
>
> Yes, I'm rambling again - not so sorry, but you're all welcome to hit me
> on the head with some stick for trying to derail Are's subjects (there
> is still the 'tick question' quite untouched and somewhat bulging - I'll
> be back . . .)
>
>
> Seriously yours,
>
> JoS
>
> sim1dmg wrote:
> >
> > Dear ATers,
> > Welcome Are and welcome back Jo.
> > I was wondering, could a disincarnate human or higher spirit such
> > an angel eventually use a animal body to communicate with us? Or
> > maybe nature spirits or little people that, for some reason, had
> > something to communicate but couldn't show themselves in their form
> > could use an animal body to establish contact with humans?
> > Hugs,
> > Simone ( from beyond the ass-end of the world where FTS is)
>

Insightful Simone . . .

Now, Frank (FTS) has some work pending on Google, but I'm sure he'll
know the sensible approach

Your 'clever Hans' reference
(http://www.damninteresting.com/clever-hans-the-math-horse) really
intrigued me both for its humour and insight.

Now, Hans is German for John (the Baptist, the Saint or some other), but
the headliner is a horse anway - and a clever one at that - this I
like.  Now I don't know the precedence of animal intimacy or friendship
to our human realm, but I think this animal (Hans and the rest) are at
least a horse's head in front of any contestants - more ancient than
almost anything we can imagine.

Tyr to grasp or envelop yourself in the eyes of a horse.  Ducks are
beautiful and close, but compare the horse . . .

This might be unfair - and I said nothing wittingly about the importance
of body language for animals, but your mention of autism strikes a chord
at the same level of intensity as the horse's 'anblick' - returned view
- not to be disregarded.

Autism seems to me(/us?) strange beyond almost any comparison (like
horses), but to me mainly claiming obvious recognition and a place in a
common world for the future - I think you're on to something, Simone

x

> Dear Jo,
> I'm glad to see you back here.
> First, for the mysterious FTS: it stands for Frank Thomas Smith,
> AT's official sweetheart. He uses to say where he lives is the
> `ass-end of the world" and since it isn't (globally speaking) very
> far from where I am and his place is apparently much closer to
> initial stages of civilization than my town, I presumed I am beyond
> the ass-end of the world. We're very far from Scandinavia, so you
> don't need to worry about it.
>
> Very interesting you talked about the importance of body language for
> animals: the Clever Hans story illustrates it perfectly!
> I couldn't help wonder about autism (it's always in my mind) where
> there's an impairment of body language understanding- isn't it
> curious it's so developed in animals and absent in autistic humans
> - and gives sense to what I recently read about autism from an
> anthroposophical source, where it says the autism somehow
> represents humans in the future.
>
> I'll write more later since I'm still trying to make sense of what
> I'm thinking…
>
> Hugs,
>
> Simone

-----Original Message-----
From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Are Thoresen
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:08 AM
To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Anti tick resistanse

 

Dear friends,

a Norwegian friend of mine suggested a solution to the question why all ticks biting me died, after my encounter with Judith vH. He suggested that the meeting, raising a greater consciousness about the importance and presence of Christ, strengthened the I-power (Ich) to the extent that parasites were eliminated.

Are Thoresen

-----Original Message-----
From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Are Thoresen
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 1:37 PM
To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: SV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Anti tick resistanse

 

Dear Kim,

Impressive homepage you have. But, this experience must have been recorded before, as I am not that developed at all. Have nobody heard about the phenomenon of ticks loosing their aggressive ability? In India quite many must have experienced the same! No records??

With the words I wrote I just meant that a strengthening of the “I” could explain the effect, or may be the astral body/sheet.

Are

Are Thoresen

Tinghaugveien 435, Gisleröd Gĺrd,

N-3175 Ramnes, telefon 33397930

arethore@online.no  are@...

http://www.sanare.no  http://www.holistiskterapi.no

---

Fra: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] Pĺ vegne av Kim Graae Munch
Sendt: 8. august 2010 11:54
Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
Emne: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Anti tick resistanse

 

I am not sure I understand what you mean with these words, but I will try to explain from my experience.

The physical body is controlled by the etheric body, and when the etheric organs are started (from their astral counterpart) the physical body becomes much more sound, comes under spiritual control. Many of us have astral organs which are ready to run except for some debris which should be cleaned out, and that can be done by a healer or throuch a provocated kundalini raising (which can be a hard experience) by various means, and a meeting with Judith could be such an occurrence as she seems to have a full running chakra system. The seven devils leaving is such a chakra system put in motion, the debris left. See my Serpents of the Kundalini Fire.

Kim

The Tree of Life

-----Original Message-----
From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Are Thoresen
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:08 AM
To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Anti tick resistanse

 

Dear friends,

a Norwegian friend of mine suggested a solution to the question why all ticks biting me died, after my encounter with Judith vH. He suggested that the meeting, raising a greater consciousness about the importance and presence of Christ, strengthened the I-power (Ich) to the extent that parasites were eliminated.

Are Thoresen

Dear friends,

one riddle that I have thought about for some 20 years, and now that I have this excellent medium to discuss such matters, I will dare to pose this question. In his lecture on geographic medicine (Geographic Medicine, The Mystery of the Double: Geographic Medicine, St. Gallen, November 16, 1917) Rudolf Steiner describes the “forces” streaming out of the earth, which sort of nourishing the ahrimanic double, causing disease in our bodies. This is not about the double, not about the diseases, but about the “forces” streaming out of the earth. Are these forces equivalent to what we today call earth radiation and Ley-lines. In my opinion these two phenomenons are different, and the so called earth radiation is created by the deeds and actions of all the entities living on this earth, human’s dead and alive, animals and other non physical beings. The forces streaming out from the earth must in my opinion be something else, but what is it. I am unsure of this whole problem or question. Can somebody help me with this?

Are Thoresen

Tinghaugveien 435, Gisleröd Gĺrd,

N-3175 Ramnes, telefon 33397930

-----Original Message-----
From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Graae Munch
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:10 AM
To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: SV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Earth radiation - Ley lines - Geographic medicine

 

What you call Dowsers are the Ahrimanic beings also called Karma. From Chakana – The Incan Cross. Man and animals leave a trace of these beings after them, but the group souls of the wild animals cleans up after the animals again, only domesticated animals builds karma, as their trace change character when living together with man, this is the Fall. There are different kind of elementals and most of those we hear about in fairy tales are made/formed/incarnated by the higher hierarchies, their group souls; another group consists of Ahrimanic and Luciferic beings, created both by gods, man, and animals. The Ahrimanic beings are without head, they are pure will and are what we fight with when trying to be free of our bad habit's of any kind, they are our karma. The Luciferic beings are with head, they can think and are created in prayers, and can work independent of the creator. Daskalos on Elementals. This Chthonic world consists of twelve elemental groups of beings, which are the real foundation of the visible physical world, and all kinds of magical systems around the Earth try to influence the physical world through these beings. Don Juan talk about the flyers, inorganic beings, in Castanedas books, the Gnostics talk about the Archons, alien predators, the wise Greek healer Daskalos talks bout the Elementals, and Jung talks about the Shadow. Most see them as ghostlike serpent forms, as the nure-onna from Japan: Nure-onna - Snake Woman Kim --- Den man 9/8/10 skrev Are Thoresen <arethore@online.no>: Fra: Are Thoresen <arethore@online.no> Emne: SV: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Earth radiation - Ley lines - Geographic medicine Til: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com Dato: mandag 9. august 2010 06.21   Dear Kim, I have observed that the lines dowsers usually find are quite different that the forces you describe in the former answer. The dowser lines vary all the time, they are “created” as man make decisions, they are created when animals pass through a forest, they are created by actions, especially bad deeds. They attract dead people, especially those who can not, for any reason, move forward (stagnated spirits). This must be something else that the elementals, their spirits, the earth out streaming forces. Did Steiner say something about dowsers, there were hundreds of them at his time, and they were well known by theosophists and anthroposophists at the time of Steiner? Are they mentioned in any other tradition? I know that both in China and in the old America (red Indians) they had strict rules when building “houses”, to avoid such energetic trails of the fore fathers.   Are   I have no personal experience with these lines, but it has to have as there is no other possibility as the Earth consists of these beings. The Zodiac's influence is also through these beings. Kim   Dear Kim, Thank you for your lengthy answer, about the forces streaming out from the earth. Do you think that it is these forces that diviners find through their divining rods, as Curry-lines, Hartmann-lines, water-lines, Lay-lines and so on? Are   .