Humanity's Michael-Christ-Experience

By absorbing Michael's nature and deeds with deep feeling and inner vision, one will have a correct understanding of how to grasp a world which is neither of a divine nature nor of revelation nor of effectiveness, but is the handiwork of the gods. To see into this world knowledgably means to have forms, formations before us which everywhere speak aloud of the divine; in which, however, if one does not succumb to illusion, no living divine being will be found. And it is not sufficient to merely consider knowledge of the world. This reveals most clearly the world's configuration which today surrounds man. But more important for daily life is feeling, willing, working in a world which, although seemingly divine in its formation, cannot be experienced as divinely enlivened. In order to bring true moral life into this world, the ethical impulses which I described in "The Philosophy of Freedom" are necessary. 

In this handiwork-world, Michael's Being and contemporary deeds can be illuminating for truly feeling people. Michael does not come into the physical world phenomenally. He and all his activity remain within a supersensible region which, however, borders on the physical world of the present phase of evolution. Therefore the possibility can never arise that the impressions that people receive through Michael's essence cause their vision of nature to become fantastic, or that they will want to practice ethics in a god-formed but not god-enlivened world as though impulses could exist which must not be ethically-spiritually sustained by people themselves. Man will always have to approach Michael, whether by thought or volition, when moving to the spirit.

We will therefore live spiritually in the following way. One will accept cognition and life as they must be accepted since the fifteenth century. But one will hold to the Michael-revelation, allowing it to burn brightly in thoughts that one receives from nature, carrying them as warmth in the heart when living in a world made possible by divine handiwork. One will then not only observe and experience the contemporary world, but also what Michael imparts – a past stage of the world, a stage which Michael carries into the present by his being and his deeds.

If it were otherwise and Michael brought his deeds into a world which man must recognize and experience as physical, then we would see in the world not what is in it, but what was. If this were to happen, then this illusory understanding of the world would deflect the reality which is appropriate for the soul to another, namely to a luciferic one.

The way in which Michael brings the past to effectiveness in the present life of humanity is coherent with the correct spiritual progress of the world which contains no luciferic elements. It is important to realize that in Michael's mission all luciferic elements will be avoided.

To realize this about the dawning Michael-Light in human history also means being able to find the correct path to Christ.

Michael will give the correct orientation in respect to the world which surrounds man in order for him to know and act in it. He will have to find the way to Christ within himself.

It is completely understandable that in a time in which natural science has taken on the form which the past five hundred years have given it, that knowledge of the supersensible world has become what is currently experienced by humanity.       

Nature must be known and experienced as devoid of gods. Thereby man no longer experiences himself in his relation to a self-shaped world of this kind. Inasmuch as man is a supersensible being his relationship to nature, which is appropriate to the times, tells him nothing about his own being, nor can he live ethically in accordance with his humanity.

As a result, this knowledge and way of life is induced to regard the supersensible human being or even the supersensible world itself as meaningless. This domain becomes separated from what is accessible to human knowledge. The separate domain of revelation by faith is ordained in contrast to what is knowable.    

The purely spiritual activity of Christ, however, is in contrast to this. Since the Mystery of Golgotha Christ is accessible to the human soul. And its relation to him need not remain an undefined, dimly felt mystical one; it can be completely concrete, humanly profound and clearly experienced.

Through living together with Christ, what the human soul should know about its own supersensible being flows into it. The revelations of faith must then be felt so that they continuously flow into the Christ experience. Thereby life will be penetrated with Christ, so that in Christ the being is found through whom man's soul is made aware of its own supersensible nature.

Thus the Michael experience and the Christ experience will be simultaneous. Through Michael man will be able to correctly find the way to the supersensible in respect to exterior nature. Without falsifying it, he will view nature together with a spiritual view of the world and man, inasmuch as he is a cosmic being.

By means of the correct attitude towards Christ and active contact with Him, man will experience what he otherwise could only receive through the traditional revelation by faith. The inner world of the soul's experiences will be illumined by the spirit, as the outer world of nature is supported by the spirit.

Were man to wish to obtain information about his own supersensible nature without living together with Christ, it would lead him out of his own reality and into that of Ahriman. Christ carries within him the impulse of the future of humanity in a valid manner. To unite with Him signifies validly receiving the seeds of the future into the human soul. Other beings, who are already showing forms which will only be cosmically valid for humanity in the future, belong to the Ahrimanic spheres. To bond with Christ in the correct way also means to protect oneself from the Ahrimanic in the correct way.

Those who strictly demand the protection of revelation by faith against the influence of human knowledge unconsciously fear that man could thus be subjected to Ahrimanic influences. This must be understood. But it should also be understood that it is to the honor and true recognition of Christ when the grace-filled flow of the spirit into the human soul is attributed to the experiencing of Christ.

Thus in the future the Michael-experience and the Christ-experience can stand side by side. And man will find be able to find his way to freedom between the Luciferic aberrance of illusions in thinking and life and the Ahrimanic temptation of future modes, which satisfy his pride, but do not yet correspond to his contemporary reality.

To succumb to Luciferic illusions means not being fully human, not wanting to advance to the stage of freedom, but to remain at a previous stage of development – as God-man. To succumb to Ahrimanic temptation means not wanting to wait until at a certain stage of human development the right cosmic moment comes, but to want to anticipate this moment.

In the future Michael-Christ will stand as the signpost-word at the beginning of the path upon which man can arrive equitably at his cosmic goal between the Luciferic and the Ahrimanic powers.         

Goetheanum, November 2, 1924                              

 (Translated by Frank Thomas Smith,  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_world/ )

                                                                                       THE MICHAEL-CHRIST-EXPERIENCE OF MAN

When with deep and earnest feeling a human being takes the inner vision of Michael's being and his deeds into his outlook on life, there will dawn upon him the true understanding of the way in which this world is to be taken by man — this world which is neither the Divine Being, nor the Manifestation, nor Active Working, but the Accomplished Work of the Gods. To look with knowledge into this world is to have before us forms and formations which speak aloud of the Divine; in which, however — if we are under no illusion about it — independent, living, Divine Being cannot be found. Nor must we consider merely our knowledge of the world. It is true that with respect to knowledge this configuration of the world, as it surrounds man at the present day, is revealed most strikingly. But more essential for everyday life is our feeling, our willing and work in a world which — though in its formation we may well feel it to be Divine — cannot really be experienced as actively imbued with Divine life. In order to bring real moral life into such a world, the ethical impulses I have described in my book Philosophy of Freedom are necessary.

For the man who feels truly, Michael's Being and his present world of deeds can shine forth in this world of the Divine accomplished work. Michael does not enter into the physical world as a phenomenal appearance. He keeps himself with all his activity within a supersensible region — albeit one which borders directly upon the physical world of the present phase of world-evolution. Thus it can never happen that men's view of Nature will be led away into the fantastic through the impressions they receive from the Being of Michael; nor will they be inclined thereby to shape their ethical and practical life in this world — Divine as it is in its form, but void of Divine life — as if impulses could be there in it which did not require to be sustained, ethically and spiritually, by man himself. If we transplant ourselves into the Spiritual, be it in thinking or in willing, we shall always be obliged to approach Michael.

We shall thereby live spiritually in the following way. We shall accept both our knowledge and our life in the manner in which we are obliged to accept them since the fifteenth century. But we shall hold fast to Michael's revelation. We shall let this revelation shine like a light into the thoughts we receive from Nature; we shall carry it as warmth in our hearts when we have to live in accordance with a world which is the accomplished work of the Divine. We shall then place before us not only the observation and experience of the present world but also that which Michael makes possible for us, namely a past condition of the world — one which Michael, through his Being and his deeds, brings into the present.

If it were otherwise — if Michael were to work in such a manner that he carried his deeds into the world which at the present time man must know and experience as the physical — man would now learn of the world, not that which in reality is in it but that which was in it. This illusory conception of the world, when it takes place, leads the human soul away from the reality that is suited to it and into another — into a Luciferic one.

The manner in which Michael brings the past into activity in present human life is the one which is in accordance with the true spiritual progress of the world and contains nothing Luciferic. It is important that in the human mind there should be a correct idea of the way in which, in Michael's mission, everything Luciferic is avoided.

To have this attitude towards the light of Michael which is dawning in human history means at the same time to be able to find the right way to Christ.

Michael will point out the right road with respect to the world which lies about man, for him to know and be active in it. The way to Christ will have to be found within.

It is quite comprehensible that, during the period in which the knowledge of Nature has the form given to it by the last five centuries, the knowledge of the supersensible world should also have become such as humanity now experiences.

Nature has to be known and experienced in such a manner that the Gods are nowhere in it. In consequence of this, man in this form of his relation to the world, experiences himself no longer. Inasmuch as he is a supersensible being, the position of his Self with respect to Nature which is in accordance with this age yields him nothing at all regarding his own being. Nor, if he has this position alone in view, can he live ethically in a manner in keeping with his true humanity.

Naturally, this causes people to prevent the modern way of knowledge and of life from entering into anything that relates to the supersensible nature of man, nay to the supersensible world at all. They separate this latter realm from anything accessible to human knowledge. A sphere of Revelation by Faith, apart from science or above it, is set up in contradistinction to the sphere of what is knowable.

But over against this there stands the purely spiritual activity of Christ, who since the Mystery of Golgotha can be reached by the human soul. The soul's relation to Christ need not remain indefinite or dimly mystical in feeling; it can become one that is quite concrete, humanly deep and clearly experienced.

Then, from the life together with Christ, there flows into the human soul what it ought to know regarding its own supersensible being. The religious revelation must then be felt in such a manner that the living experience of Christ continually streams into it. It will become possible for life to be filled with Christ, through Christ being perceived as the Being who gives to the human soul the knowledge of its own supersensible nature.

Thus the Michael experience and the Christ experience will in the future be able to stand side by side. Through Michael man will find the path into the supersensible world in the right way with respect to the outer world of Nature. Our view of Nature, without being falsified in itself, will then be able to stand by the side of a spiritual view of the world and of man inasmuch as he is a cosmic being.

Through his true attitude to Christ man will be able, in the active intercourse of his soul with Christ, to experience what he could otherwise only receive as a traditional revelation by faith. He will be able to experience the inner world of the soul's life as one that is shone through by the Spirit; and he will also experience the outer world of Nature as one that is upborne by the Spirit.

If man were to gain information about his own supersensible nature without his life in union with Christ, this would lead him out of his own reality and into that of Ahriman. Christ bears within Himself, in a manner true to the whole Cosmos, the impulses for the future of humanity. To unite with Christ signifies for the human soul to receive into itself, in a mariner true to the Cosmos, its own seeds for the future. Other beings who already at the present time manifest forms which will be cosmically right for man only in the future, belong to the Ahrimanic sphere. To unite ourselves with Christ in the right way is also to preserve ourselves in the right way from the Ahrimanic.

Those who strictly demand that the revelations of religious faith shall be preserved from the invasions of human knowledge are unconsciously afraid that by such ways as this man might come under Ahrimanic influences. This fact must be appreciated. But it should also be appreciated that it is to the honour and true recognition of Christ when that gift of grace, which is the inflowing of the Spiritual into the human soul, is ascribed to the living experience with Him.

Thus in the future the Michael experience and the Christ experience can stand side by side; man will thereby find his right path of freedom between the Luciferic deviation into illusions in thought and life, and the Ahrimanic allurement into forms of the future which may satisfy his pride but cannot as yet be his present forms.

To fall into Luciferic illusions means not to become fully Man — not to wish to progress to the stage of spiritual freedom but to wish to halt, as God-Man, at a premature stage of evolution. To succumb to Ahrimanic temptations means not to be willing to wait until at a certain stage of human development the right cosmic moment will have come, but to wish to forestall this stage.

Michael-Christ will stand in future as the guiding word at the entrance to the path upon which man may arrive at his world-goal, in a way that is cosmically right, between the Luciferic and the Ahrimanic powers.

(http://www.rsarchive.org/)

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs" <write3chairs@...> wrote:
>
> By the way, where is Tarjei lately?

I was told he's…

For when he feels like returning to the cyber-world: Congratulations Tarjei!

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
<eltrigal78@...> wrote:

> P.S. This guy or gal is in a confused state of soul. He compulsively
> spells deniers "deniars" and Steiner "Steinar".

Ease up a little, Francisco.  English isn't his first
language; he's Norwegian.  *Steinar* is a Norwegian
name.

Rubart

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mason"
<robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> <eltrigal78@> wrote:
>
> > P.S. This guy or gal is in a confused state of soul. He compulsively
> > spells deniers "deniars" and Steiner "Steinar".
>
> Ease up a little, Francisco.  English isn't his first
> language; he's Norwegian.  *Steinar* is a Norwegian
> name.
>
> Rubart
>
Yeah, and I'm a hobbit.
f.

In defence of Rudolf Steiner

By NNA correspondent Wolfgang G. Voegele

DORNACH (NNA) - In response to recent campaigns against Rudolf Steiner and
the Waldorf schools, Walter Kugler, director of the Steiner Archive in
Dornach, Switzerland, has revised, retitled and republished his book
"Demonising Steiner" (Feindbild Steiner) which first appeared seven years
ago.

"Rudolf Steiner as some see him and others perceive him" is the new
title of
the 128-page volume, which is set to correct a range of false
judgements and
also offers insiders some new information.

The chapter "Steiner versus anti-semitism" is one section that has been
revised and enlarged. Here Kugler shows how much Steiner's comments -
which
cause such  offence to modern critics - were wholly in line with debates
common at the time about the assimilation of the Jews.

For example, reflecting on the nineteenth century the Jewish historian
Michael A. Meyer wrote in 1994: "Judaism had lost its justification
because
it had no intrinsic content enabling it to survive over time [.] According
to Hegel, Judaism had ceased to possess any world-historical importance."
This is precisely the same perspective from which Steiner assessed the
situation of liberal Judaism. The reader learns that similar ideas had
governed the work of the "Association for Jewish Culture and Science"
which
was founded in Berlin as long ago as 1819.

According to Kugler, critics have also entirely overlooked Steiner's
articles in the "Journal Against Anti-Semitism" ("Zeitschrift zur
Abwehr des
Antisemitismus").

A completely new chapter in the book is entitled "Occultism: Source of the
Sciences" which, in line with academic studies on esotericism, shows that
western esotericism and modern science have a common origin. A sentence by
the well-known American scientist and journalist Russell W. Davenport -
"Steiner is no more a mystic than Einstein; he was first and foremost a
scientist, but one who dared penetrate the secrets of life" - is still as
topical as ever.

Another new addition to the book is a section citing commentators who see
Steiner as one of the twentieth century's greatest lateral thinkers. These
quotations come from renowned writers, art academics and museum directors.

The core of the book remains largely the same however. It points to
important facts in Steiner's biography that critics have overlooked or
intentionally ignored. A new arrangement and better print quality of
illustrations also enhance the volume's attractiveness.

The cover depicts a wave rolling on the shore, as symbol for the
rhythmically recurring attacks on Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy
which, at
regular intervals over the past hundred years, have been launched by
opponents in an effort to defame Steiner and render him the object of
public
disapproval. The fact that public interest in objective accounts is
increasing has not hindered them in their undertaking.

In his foreword to the expanded edition, Kugler writes that his hope
for the
original edition published in 2000 was that public perception of Steiner
would gradually become more factual. There had been no lack
information from
among the ranks of the anthroposophical movement.

But a certain type of critic, says Kugler, is not really interested in
clarification and objectivity. This was thoroughly clear from occurrences
such as false media reports, for instance in the Frankfurter
Sonntagszeitung
newspaper in July 2007, or the application to have some works by
Steiner put
on a list of proscribed publications that pose a risk to young people.
What
is really going on is still shrouded in darkness, writes Kugler, but he
suspects that the aim of such activities is to cast the Waldorf
schools in a
bad light.

The Frankfurter Sonntagszeitung printed an entirely false report which
implied that tendencies to violence in Waldorf schools were greater
than at
state schools. The paper never published a correction.

Kugler does not specifically name one of the fiercest opponents, Michael
Grandt - who lodged a formal complaint against the authority which had
dismissed the application to blacklist Steiner.

Ten years ago, already, the brothers Guido and Michael Grandt published
their "Black Book of Anthroposophy" in the attempt to conflate Rudolf
Steiner with satanism in the public's perception. Fortunately this did not
succeed, thanks to pro-active publicity work by the anthroposophical
movement. Michael Grandt has now announced publication of a new book
in the
autumn, issued by a well-known publisher with links to the Evangelical
Church in Germany. This is said to be a companion volume, a "Black
Book" to
attack the Waldorf schools.

Thus the next round of anthro- and Waldorf bashing is imminent. Kugler's
revised book has therefore appeared with perfect timing.

End/nna/vog/mb

Walter Kugler: "Rudolf Steiner. Wie manche ihn sehen und andere
wahrnehmen".
Stuttgart: Verlag Freies Geistesleben 2008. 128 pages, EUR 9.90, CHF 18.90

Item: 080627-01DE Date: 27 June 2008

Copyright 2008 News Network Anthroposophy Limited. All rights
reserved. See:
www.nna-news.org/copyright/

More NNA reports at: www.nna-news.org/en/

Peter Staudenmaier: "There is a need for backward races, according to
anthroposophists
and theosophists, as long as there are still backward souls that need
to progress further before they can incarnate in advanced races. That
is what Steiner taught."

Rhubarb Steinar:
"What do they need backward races for? Biological experiments by
cult-doctors? I am wondering if the Steiner-people also have their own
Doctor Mengele."

These Waldorf-Critics revelations are getting more and more
penetrating. I mean they really worry me. Does anyone know an
anthroposophical doc who openly, i.e. not secretly in some dungeon,
practices such disgusting stuff on backward races. I mean even if they
*are* backward that's no reason to cut 'em and stuff 'em.
Frank

----- Original Message -----

From: Frank Thomas Smith

To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 2:53 AM

Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Looking for the anthroposophical Dr.Mengele

Peter Staudenmaier: "There is a need for backward races, according to
anthroposophists
and theosophists, as long as there are still backward souls that need
to progress further before they can incarnate in advanced races. That
is what Steiner taught."

Rhubarb Steinar:
"What do they need backward races for? Biological experiments by
cult-doctors? I am wondering if the Steiner-people also have their own
Doctor Mengele."

These Waldorf-Critics revelations are getting more and more
penetrating. I mean they really worry me. Does anyone know an
anthroposophical doc who openly, i.e. not secretly in some dungeon,
practices such disgusting stuff on backward races. I mean even if they
*are* backward that's no reason to cut 'em and stuff 'em.
Frank

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Albert Sándor
<montek@...> wrote:
>
> I am reading the Akasha Chronicles, Steiner does use the term savage
for certain populations, said to resembel in their habits the lives of
the ancient lemurians or atlanteans.
> He also uses the term, our western culture and implies that it is a
more evolved one.
-------
I would call this a mis - or interpretive translation. I don't have
the original Akasha anymore, but if I remember correctly, Steiner says
"wilde Rassen". (Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong.) Now "wild" can be
translated as savage, but also as wild, meaning uncivilized. IMO he
used it in this sense.
Frank
_____

>
> Now, this will hurt some feelings as today, in the age of great
democracies and freedom, and in our just hearts, we cannot stand that
human beings are classified, or thought to be of different value.
>
> Steiner does not make the difference between the savage man, and the
western man. He makes the difference between a the extroverted,
industrious, scientific culture of the west, and the paleolitic
culture of some tribe on an island behind the back of God. Everyone
must agree that although both are human cultures, the former is more
evolved and according to our time, than the latter. This does not mean
better ! It just means that the former is in the mainstream of
evolution, and the latter is on a sidetrack, stagnating.
> This does not mean that the latter is useless, or it's people are
below human level, or something like that.
> We know that real savages lurk in the underground of our great
cities, or in high seats of politics. We know that a tribe leader in
the rainforest might be more enlightened than the average Joe in an
unknown office.
>
> Yes there are great differences between human souls, but this is not
race, gender, or place related anymore. Those who attack
anthroposophy, do not have in mind that souls are incarnating in
various places, so if anything, anthroposophy is what against racism,
sexism, xenophoby.
> If one life you are a caucasian, and the next you are african
american ... how is that racist ? If one life you are a man, next life
you are a woman, how is that sexist ?
> If one life you are spanish, next life you are irish, how is that
xenophoby ?
>
> Oh, you say, ethnic souls, leading spirits od nations, races ...
those are of the past. They leave us more and more freedom.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Frank Thomas Smith
>   To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 2:53 AM
>   Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Looking for the anthroposophical
Dr.Mengele
>
>
>   Peter Staudenmaier: "There is a need for backward races, according to
>   anthroposophists
>   and theosophists, as long as there are still backward souls that need
>   to progress further before they can incarnate in advanced races. That
>   is what Steiner taught."
>
>   Rhubarb Steinar:
>   "What do they need backward races for? Biological experiments by
>   cult-doctors? I am wondering if the Steiner-people also have their own
>   Doctor Mengele."
>
>   These Waldorf-Critics revelations are getting more and more
>   penetrating. I mean they really worry me. Does anyone know an
>   anthroposophical doc who openly, i.e. not secretly in some dungeon,
>   practices such disgusting stuff on backward races. I mean even if they
>   *are* backward that's no reason to cut 'em and stuff 'em.
>   Frank
>

Caro Francisco,

It seems that Tom Mellet, despite very sharp and savvy, doesn't know how to use these qualities when it comes to identifying trolls. Besides, he was away from cyber anthroposophy circles for too long and doesn't know most of the new players on the game. I remember he once wrote here that all anthroposophists on WC were Tarjei's trolls, including Brad Martin, who, we know, is a real person. So, it seems that Tom sees Tarjei's ghost everywhere in the cyberspace.

I've read Steinar posts on WC and I've a very good guess of who's behind it – I'm 99% sure, so, I can't reveal the name since it is not absolute certainty and I don't wanna make false cyber-accusations. These thing of proxy servers made trolling identification nearly impossible, that is, you know who it is but you can't ever be sure. Anyway, by situating the troll on Norway and throwing here and there some of Tarjei's typical style, like parodying songs and citing Nixon (Tom, you're underestimating Tarjei by far!), this person (yeap, I know it's you!) certainly wanted to make people believe he was Tarjei. It's amazing how revengeful people can be and how long they can carry around bitter feelings because of banishment from a cyber-forum…

Abraços (para o Francisco!),

Simone

LOL Frankizito, what would be of this forum if we hadn't you…

More abraços,

Simone

For the record: I am not a troll. And this is why I quoted Richard
Nixon who said: "I am not a crook." He was not and I am no more troll
than Nixon was crook.

I became victim of ethnic profiling on the internet because I am a
Norwegian national in Norway, the land of trolls. But I am agnostic
and never beleive in trolls.

I am not anthroposophist or Steiner-person or Aryan myth member. I
have never been member of any organisation or cults. I am amatur
investigatour of Steiner cult because my wife and I were enticed to
let our daughter be a Steiner-pupil in a Steiner-school establishment
2 years ago.

I have admired Peter Staudenmaier very much for a long time because he
is doing so much research and has written very good articles.

Without his article we would not know about Aryan myth in the
Steiner-system. And I hoped to contact Staudenmaier and his friends at
Waldorf Critics and get some good friends when we perhaps move to
California next year, but they accuse me to be troll and Staudenmaier
accusing me to be anthroposophist, so if you people here who are
anthroposophist could tell Staudenmaier that I am not one of you he
would apologise to me maybe. He was offended when I said I am layman
who needs help to understand academic and metaphysical things but he
scoffed and said I trample on laypeople because that is what
anthroposophists do and that I am anthroposophist. Why would I trample
on my self?

I was very hurt by accusations and suspicions and then they said that
because I was fealing hurt I should seak psychotherapi like I was
crazy and that it was stupid to expect anything else on the internet.

I know there is Aryan myth but there are also trollmyths and it is
strange that people beleive in trolls. Many people have written
private emails to me, many mails and most very friendly thank you but
also strange, that I should pass on information and not tell who sent
these things. One such message says I should tell Peter Staudenmaier
that he must look at the web page at
http://www.waldorfanswers.org/ThreeConcepts.htm but this seams to be
from a Steiner cultperson. And then there is a lady who belongs to Den
Evangelisk Lutherske Frikirke http://www.frikirken.no/ and she says I
can not say her name or any thing but they have a group investigating
the Steinercult and those evangelic Christians beleive in devils and
trolls and they also think Rudolf Steiner was troll and he had bushy
tale that he was hiding and that his closest people helped him hide, a
bulge at the bottom of his spine so no full photo was taken from
behind, and there was never a close photo of his right foot they think
because Rudolf Steiner had lumpfoot that was a big nail across his
whole lower leg, a hoof like from a horse or goat.

They disagree about Rudolf Steiner that he was a troll or a devil, but
those people are superstitious evangelics that beleive many strange
things special when they prey and do miracels.

Someone else wrote to me in English and said that I must read
"Basement Files" because they are true and that the internet people
know what this means and can help find them. What is the Basement?

But I am not a troll and I beleive not in trolls or devils because I
am not anthroposopist or Aryan or evangelic nutty beleiver in such
things but it is a shame that you anthro-Aryans beleive in Goebbels
killercult-love and you should seek help or be ashamed.

Greetings,

Steinar Beider
Oslo, Norway

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider"
<steinarbeider@...> wrote:
>
> For the record: I am not a troll. And this is why I quoted Richard
> Nixon who said: "I am not a crook." He was not and I am no more troll
> than Nixon was crook.
>
> I became victim of ethnic profiling on the internet because I am a
> Norwegian national in Norway, the land of trolls. But I am agnostic
> and never beleive in trolls.
>
> I am not anthroposophist or Steiner-person or Aryan myth member. I
> have never been member of any organisation or cults. I am amatur
> investigatour of Steiner cult because my wife and I were enticed to
> let our daughter be a Steiner-pupil in a Steiner-school establishment
> 2 years ago.
>
> I have admired Peter Staudenmaier very much for a long time because he
> is doing so much research and has written very good articles.
>
> Without his article we would not know about Aryan myth in the
> Steiner-system. And I hoped to contact Staudenmaier and his friends at
> Waldorf Critics and get some good friends when we perhaps move to
> California next year, but they accuse me to be troll and Staudenmaier
> accusing me to be anthroposophist, so if you people here who are
> anthroposophist could tell Staudenmaier that I am not one of you he
> would apologise to me maybe. He was offended when I said I am layman
> who needs help to understand academic and metaphysical things but he
> scoffed and said I trample on laypeople because that is what
> anthroposophists do and that I am anthroposophist. Why would I trample
> on my self?

Possibly for the same reason that you allowed yourself to be enticed to
let your daughter be a Steiner-pupil in a Steiner-school establishment 2
years ago and that you are presently an admirer of Peter Staudenmaier.
I, too, allowed myself to be enticed to enroll my daughter in a Steiner
school 13 years ago and I am actually on record as saying that I love
Peter!

> I was very hurt by accusations and suspicions and then they said that
> because I was fealing hurt I should seak psychotherapi like I was
> crazy and that it was stupid to expect anything else on the internet.
> I know there is Aryan myth but there are also trollmyths and it is
> strange that people beleive in trolls. Many people have written
> private emails to me, many mails and most very friendly thank you but
> also strange, that I should pass on information and not tell who sent
> these things. One such message says I should tell Peter Staudenmaier
> that he must look at the web page at
> http://www.waldorfanswers.org/ThreeConcepts.htm but this seams to be
> from a Steiner cultperson. And then there is a lady who belongs to Den
> Evangelisk Lutherske Frikirke http://www.frikirken.no/ and she says I
> can not say her name or any thing but they have a group investigating
> the Steinercult and those evangelic Christians beleive in devils and
> trolls and they also think Rudolf Steiner was troll and he had bushy
> tale that he was hiding and that his closest people helped him hide, a
> bulge at the bottom of his spine so no full photo was taken from
> behind, and there was never a close photo of his right foot they think
> because Rudolf Steiner had lumpfoot that was a big nail across his
> whole lower leg, a hoof like from a horse or goat.
>
> They disagree about Rudolf Steiner that he was a troll or a devil, but
> those people are superstitious evangelics that beleive many strange
> things special when they prey and do miracels.
>
> Someone else wrote to me in English and said that I must read
> "Basement Files" because they are true and that the internet people
> know what this means and can help find them. What is the Basement?

A basement is an underground floor of a dwelling like a cellar. I think
the reference here is to Dornach's basement and of course only
Anthroposophists in the know-know what goes on down there! I haven't a
clue though I have heard stories here and there. So if that's the kind
of thing that interests you-stick around.-Val

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, JoAnn Schwartz
<sr_joanna@...> wrote:
>
> Frank!
>
> Tarjei as Cheney?!?!  Now I need to bleach my brain!!
>
> Grumbling,
> JoAnn

Oh, was that Cheney? I didn't notice, was just looking for a guy
contemplating his navel and looks like Tarjei.
Crumbling,
Frank


>
> ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
>
> There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have
said -- no. But, somehow we missed it.
>
>
>
> Well, we'll know better next time.
>
> -Tom Stoppard, "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"
>
> -
>

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
<eltrigal78@...> wrote:
>
> A Waldorf-Critic-Creature has unearthed Gandalf deniers at this site.
> This is undeniably a shameful situation and, with all due respect to the
> Powers that Be, I suggest that they be immediately banned (the Gandalf
> deniers, not the Powers that Be).

Frank Smith, you have misunderstood my WC post very much because I did
not say that any at this AT site was Gandalf deniar. I said people at
this site who are antisemitic Aryan cultists accuse Jews of Gandalf
denial and also Christ denial, that is in the archives somewear. There
is nothing wrong with denying Gandalf, I am agnostic and deny Gandalf
also so why should it be wrong to deny Gandalf if you are Jewish and
why are Steiner-cultists also Tolkien-racists?

Greetings,

Steinar Beider
Oslo, Norway

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
<eltrigal78@...> wrote:

> you were, you would know that Goebbels was actually a Norwegian
> undercover agent, double agent that is.

Frank Smith you only write bullshit and mock and make fun and do not
respect me, when I wrote to the WC you made fun of me the whole time
like I should be a troll.

I am not a troll just like Nixon was not a crook. He was the best
president America has had and that is why they railrowded him because
if Nixon had been alive now he would be much better candidate than
McCain and Obama and would beet them both and make a better America
and a better world. But they said he was a crook for the same reeson
they say I am a troll and anthroposophist, to railrowd and discredit me.

Greetings,

Steinar

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider"
<steinarbeider@...> wrote:
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> <eltrigal78@> wrote:
> >
> > A Waldorf-Critic-Creature has unearthed Gandalf deniers at this site.
> > This is undeniably a shameful situation and, with all due respect
to the
> > Powers that Be, I suggest that they be immediately banned (the Gandalf
> > deniers, not the Powers that Be).
>
> Frank Smith, you have misunderstood my WC post very much because I did
> not say that any at this AT site was Gandalf deniar. I said people at
> this site who are antisemitic Aryan cultists accuse Jews of Gandalf
> denial and also Christ denial, that is in the archives somewear. There
> is nothing wrong with denying Gandalf, I am agnostic and deny Gandalf
> also so why should it be wrong to deny Gandalf if you are Jewish and
> why are Steiner-cultists also Tolkien-racists?
>
> Greetings,
>
> Steinar Beider
> Oslo, Norway
>
Hi Steinar,
I regret to tell you that if all the anti-Semitic Aryan cultists on
this list were banned, there'd be nobody left. That's why I suggested
only the Galndalf deniers be banned. Since, however, according to you
there are no Gandalf deniers, I fear there is nothing to be done.Btw
it's deni*e*rs , not deni*a*rs. I know you're a foreigner and as such
are accepted on this  multicultural list - unfortunately imo; I think
ALL foreigners should be banned from everywhere. But you could at
least use your spelling program.
Bast regerds,
Frank

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider"
<steinarbeider@...> wrote:
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> <eltrigal78@> wrote:
>
> > you were, you would know that Goebbels was actually a Norwegian
> > undercover agent, double agent that is.
>
> Frank Smith you only write bullshit and mock and make fun and do not
> respect me, when I wrote to the WC you made fun of me the whole time
> like I should be a troll.

Let's be clear, Steinar. Everyone else thinks you re a troll. I do
not. I believe that you are a true, red-blooded, dyed-in-the-wool
Waldorf-Critic-Creature. It's not my fault that they don't appreciate you.

>
> I am not a troll just like Nixon was not a crook. He was the best
> president America has had and that is why they railrowded him because
> if Nixon had been alive now he would be much better candidate than
> McCain and Obama and would beet them both and make a better America
> and a better world. But they said he was a crook for the same reeson
> they say I am a troll and anthroposophist, to railrowd and discredit me.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Holeheartedly,
Frank

Frank, you crack me up! I got to save this master piece, I haven't laugh so hard in a long time!

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider"
> steinarbeider@ wrote:
> >
> > For the record: I am not a troll. And this is why I quoted Richard
> > Nixon who said: "I am not a crook." He was not and I am no more troll
> > than Nixon was crook.
>
> We can all agree to that, Steinar.   LOL!!!
>
>
> > I became victim of ethnic profiling on the internet because I am a
> > Norwegian national in Norway, the land of trolls. But I am agnostic
> > and never beleive in trolls.
>
> Wunderbar, that's why you belong, fit in perfectly with the Waldorf
> Critics. I think it's a shame that they don't appreciate you.
>
> >
> > I am not anthroposophist or Steiner-person or Aryan myth member. I
> > have never been member of any organisation or cults. I am amatur
> > investigatour of Steiner cult because my wife and I were enticed to
> > let our daughter be a Steiner-pupil in a Steiner-school establishment
> > 2 years ago.
>
> I checked on that and it seems the teachers thought your daughter was a
> mite old (34) for the second grade. She's 36 now, so you might try the
> Norwegian Waldorf Teachers Training Basement in Oslo.
>
> >
> > I have admired Peter Staudenmaier very much for a long time because he
> > is doing so much research and has written very good articles.
>
> We all admire Peter, Steinar. You and he are like 2 peas in a pod, which
> is why we admire you as well.
>
> > Without his article we would not know about Aryan myth in the
> > Steiner-system. And I hoped to contact Staudenmaier and his friends at
> > Waldorf Critics and get some good friends when we perhaps move to
> > California next year, but they accuse me to be troll and Staudenmaier
> > accusing me to be anthroposophist, so if you people here who are
> > anthroposophist could tell Staudenmaier that I am not one of you he
> > would apologise to me maybe. He was offended when I said I am layman
> > who needs help to understand academic and metaphysical things but he
> > scoffed and said I trample on laypeople because that is what
> > anthroposophists do and that I am anthroposophist. Why would I trample
> > on my self?
>
> Of course you wouldn't. Would you like me to put in a good word for you
> with Peter. If you go to L.A. don't fail to look up our friend Tom (Cat)
> Mellett. You, he and Peter can dine together on Sauerkraut, Wurst and
> Budweiser. (Threefold, get it?)
>
> >
> > I was very hurt by accusations and suspicions and then they said that
> > because I was fealing hurt I should seak psychotherapi like I was
> > crazy and that it was stupid to expect anything else on the internet.
>
> Don't feel hurt, Steinar. You're much too far gone for psychotherapi.
> Just read "Knowledge of Lower Worlds and its Attainment" by Dottie Zold.  LMAO!!!
>
> >
> > I know there is Aryan myth but there are also trollmyths and it is
> > strange that people beleive in trolls. Many people have written
> > private emails to me, many mails and most very friendly thank you
>
> Really? Name one.
>
> but
> > also strange, that I should pass on information and not tell who sent
> > these things.
>
> Oh, okay, I get it: occult knowledge.
>
> One such message says I should tell Peter Staudenmaier
> > that he must look at the web page at
> > http://www.waldorfanswers.org/ThreeConcepts.htm but this seams to be
> > from a Steiner cultperson. And then there is a lady who belongs to Den
> > Evangelisk Lutherske Frikirke http://www.frikirken.no/ and she says I
> > can not say her name or any thing but they have a group investigating
> > the Steinercult and those evangelic Christians beleive in devils and
> > trolls and they also think Rudolf Steiner was troll and he had bushy
> > tale that he was hiding and that his closest people helped him hide, a
> > bulge at the bottom of his spine so no full photo was taken from
> > behind, and there was never a close photo of his right foot they think
> > because Rudolf Steiner had lumpfoot that was a big nail across his
> > whole lower leg, a hoof like from a horse or goat.
> >
> > They disagree about Rudolf Steiner that he was a troll or a devil, but
> > those people are superstitious evangelics that beleive many strange
> > things special when they prey and do miracels.
>
> Here's evidence that Steiner was not a troll: There was no internet
> then.
>
> >
> > Someone else wrote to me in English and said that I must read
> > "Basement Files" because they are true and that the internet people
> > know what this means and can help find them. What is the Basement?
>
> You must be a member of the Anthroposophical Society for at least 2
> years before you can enter the Basement. Are you a member? Or a
> founding member of A_T. I doubt that's the case though, unless you're a
> troll, which you deny, and I, at least, believe you.
>
> >
> > But I am not a troll and I beleive not in trolls or devils because I
> > am not anthroposopist or Aryan or evangelic nutty beleiver in such
> > things but it is a shame that you anthro-Aryans beleive in Goebbels
> > killercult-love and you should seek help or be ashamed.
>
> Here's where you reveal that you are not a Historian like Peter S. If
> you were, you would know that Goebbels was actually a Norwegian
> undercover agent, double agent that is. Problem is, he got so confused
> that he often forgot who he was working for. You must also read between
> the lines in the archives if you think he was an anti-Semite. Just
> because everyone else thinks so, doesn't mean you must. And the
> Nurenburg Trials were a conspiracy by the Jewish Bankers. Read about it
> in "The Elders of Zion".  LMAO!!!

There are umpteen conspiracies around,
> Steinar. That's one thing you'll learn if you stick around long enough.
>
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Steinar Beider
> > Oslo, Norway
>
> And Great Greetings to you,
> Frank Smith
> Argentina
> We may be at opposite ends of the world, but brothers nevertheless.
> (unless you're a sister)
>

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider" <steinarbeider@...> wrote:
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> eltrigal78@ wrote:
>
> > you were, you would know that Goebbels was actually a Norwegian
> > undercover agent, double agent that is.
>
> Frank Smith you only write bullshit and mock and make fun and do not
> respect me, when I wrote to the WC you made fun of me the whole time
> like I should be a troll.
>
> I am not a troll just like Nixon was not a crook. He was the best
> president America has had and that is why they railrowded him because
> if Nixon had been alive now he would be much better candidate than
> McCain and Obama and would beet them both and make a better America
> and a better world. But they said he was a crook for the same reeson
> they say I am a troll and anthroposophist, to railrowd and discredit me.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Steinar
>

Steinar (aka …),

First you wanted to make believe you were Tarjei, then you flatter a guy who's very unpopular in this area, then you say that  "Steiner-people" ( a tip: they prefer to be called "anthroposophists" ) are part of a cult, and to put a cherry on top, you call Frank, AT's official sweetheart, a bullshiter… Have you considered going back to the WC forum?

Om Shanti,

Simone

ps: I've a feeling that once Tarjei is back from his vacation, he'll kick your arch outta here immediately. But don't get on despair: at this address, http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_world/ , you'll find friendly and broad-minded Steiner-people, willing to provide you all answers and guidance you may need. And since you're into inspecting archives, you can verify there's no Gandalf-deniärs there. Why don't you give it a try today? Frank, is that ok  Steinar moving on to AW? See, Steinar my friend, I'm just trying to spare you from annoyances 

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
>
> --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "steinarbeider"
> steinarbeider@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> > <eltrigal78@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A Waldorf-Critic-Creature has unearthed Gandalf deniers at this site.
> > > This is undeniably a shameful situation and, with all due respect
> to the
> > > Powers that Be, I suggest that they be immediately banned (the Gandalf
> > > deniers, not the Powers that Be).
> >
> > Frank Smith, you have misunderstood my WC post very much because I did
> > not say that any at this AT site was Gandalf deniar. I said people at
> > this site who are antisemitic Aryan cultists accuse Jews of Gandalf
> > denial and also Christ denial, that is in the archives somewear. There
> > is nothing wrong with denying Gandalf, I am agnostic and deny Gandalf
> > also so why should it be wrong to deny Gandalf if you are Jewish and
> > why are Steiner-cultists also Tolkien-racists?
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Steinar Beider
> > Oslo, Norway
> >
> Hi Steinar,
> I regret to tell you that if all the anti-Semitic Aryan cultists on
> this list were banned, there'd be nobody left. That's why I suggested
> only the Galndalf deniers be banned. Since, however, according to you
> there are no Gandalf deniers, I fear there is nothing to be done.Btw
> it's deni*e*rs , not deni*a*rs. I know you're a foreigner and as such
> are accepted on this multicultural list - unfortunately imo; I think
> ALL foreigners should be banned from everywhere.

I agree wholeheartedly.

But you could at
> least use your spelling program.
> Bast regerds,
> Frank
>

--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
<eltrigal78@...> wrote:

> Let's be clear, Steinar. Everyone else thinks you re a troll. I do
> not. I believe that you are a true, red-blooded, dyed-in-the-wool
> Waldorf-Critic-Creature. It's not my fault that they don't appreciate
you.

Frank, I think it's next to impossible to distinguish between the
critics and the trolls especially when the critics make statements like
this: "Kugler's attititude toward Steiner's racial doctrines is
especially revealing." Revealing? Yeah, I'll say-move over Glass
siblings-this is a way more interesting statement than anything you two
have ever come up with. Anyway, take pity on poor Steinar-if he used
spell check then he'd be Steiner, so it seems a damned if he does,
damned if he doesn't sort of thing to me.-Val