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Reply Message #25 of 50021 |
Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam

Dear Group:
 
The following was being distributed throughout other Anthroposophic e-groups. The material may be disturbing and quite controversial due to the recent developments in the last couple of years. It is compilation of various points that Steiner had given to the CC priests in September of 1924. The translation/edition is not exactly what I have in my edition at some points. I looked through my copy and found that the following is actually from two lectures and that these are points from Steiner's lectures that the individual had selected.
 
The lecture cycle is titled, "The Book of Revelation and the Work of the Priest." (18 lectures). The two cited lectures are: 11 & 12 September,1924; Dornach, Switzerland.
 
 
rick distasi
 
****************************************************************************************************
 
From one basic way of considering this matter, there are two
realms: the realm of NATURE – which is the realm of the Father
(the source of the created world both spiritually and physically) –
and the realm of the SPIRIT.
The Mohammedan teachings do not know the structure of the
world I have just been speaking about. They know – and can
ONLY know – the Father.
They know only the rigid doctrine: "There is one God, Allah, and
none beside him, and Mohammed is his Prophet."
From this angle, the teachings of Mohammed are the strongest
polarity to Christianity.
Indeed, resident in a hidden manner within the Islamic
worldview is the will to do away with all freedom forever, the will
to bring about a purely deterministic spiritual and social order
that would dominate every aspect of human life, for nothing else
is possible if you imagine the world solely in the sense of a
Father God alone.
A foreboding of this gave the apocalypse-writer (John) the
feeling: The human being cannot be found, or find himself, in
this. The human being cannot become filled through and
through with Christ if he remains connected with the doctrine of
the Father (alone).
Restricted to this, the human being cannot take hold of his own
humanness. He fails to become fully human if he is only able to
conceive the Father God.
In the end, the human being only becomes human by making
Christ alive within himself and thereby gaining protection from
the material conviction that spiritual realities are illusionary and
vaporous epi-phenomena of purely material causes.
Entertainment of the doctrine of the Father (alone) inescapably
arrives at a conceptual materialism such as represented, for
example, by Darwinism, the view that the human being arises
from purely material causes.
And if we regard Christianity primarily as that which accords with
the Sun forces spiritually speaking, and such as is reflected /
mirrored / mediated / manifested by the nine ranks of angelic
Hierarchies, then we may identify that which OPPOSES these
spiritual/sun forces as "anti-sun" forces or as  "sun demon."
This "sun demon" works COUNTER to the Christian principle in
such a way that – if a human being were to succumb to the lures
of the sun demon and his inspiration, then that same human
being would – by his own free choice – surrender all inward
connection to the divinity of Christ for an inward connection with
the sub-human spiritual realms.
The apocalyptist saw this. – He felt and saw the mighty (future)
counter-principle of Arabism bursting in on Christianity.
It was clear to him that, from this Arabism, everything arises that
brings the human being close to the purely animal nature, first of
all in his views, but gradually also in his combined impulses of
will and action.
And what the apocalyptist saw BEHIND the future scenes of the
looming Mohammdan historical impulse was the sun demon at
work, working against the sun forces, against the spiritual
sun-intelligence.
If asked, the apocalyptist would have called the representatives
of Arabism in Europe "human beings who have willingly
dedicated themselves to the sun demon in their souls' nature."
Dear friends, the number 666 represented both the NAME and
the TIME when Arabism would flow into Christianity in order to
impress the seal of materialism upon western culture.
The apocalyptist portrays everything that works as a
counter-principle to Christianity – such as Arabism and its
deterministic conceptual constructs – as direct outflow from the
counter-spirituality represented by the sun-demon Surat.
And, in the final analysis, everything flowing from Arabism was
directed ultimately against a spiritual Christian understanding of
transubstantiation. External facts certainly do not look as if this
were the case but – by allotting validity only to the Father principle
– to the natural world-order, the sun demon forces indeed
intended to sweep away from human view an immediate feeling
for that which is active in the very deepest way in a sacrament
such as transubstantiation.
(The great revolutions that came about in Europe as a result of
the Crusades belong under the sign of the SECOND occurrence
of the number 666….)
During the first 666, dear friends, Surat was still hidden but
actively at work within the external process of outward events; he
was not seen in clear outward manifestation.
Now before us [in 1924] lies the time of the third number 666:
1998 A.D.
At the end of this (the twentieth) century, the time will come when
Surat will ONCE AGAIN raise his head most strongly out of the
waves of history.
Only two-thirds of the 20th century will have still to run before
Surat/Sorat once again raises his head most mightily.
Before this (twentieth) century is out, he will show himself
through his appearance in many human beings as the one by
whom many are "possessed."
Human beings will appear of whom it will be impossible to
believe that they are really human beings.
These Surat-inspired human beings will be recognizable by their
external appearance; in a terrible way they will not only scoff at
everything, but will also oppose, and want to destroy, and to
push into the abyss anything that is spiritual.
Outwardly, they will have intense and strong dispositions, with
savage countenances, and with furious destructiveness in their
emotions.
The intention to sweep-away anything spiritual will be
deep-seated in large numbers of earthly souls, just as the
apocalyptist has foreseen in the beast-like countenance, and the
beast-like strength, that will underlie the deeds of the adversary
over against the spiritual.
Even today, hidden rage against spiritual things is already
immense, yet it is still in its very early infancy in contrast to what
is to come....


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam

At 01:33 07.11.2003, Christine Natale wrote:

>I hear over and over again so many platitudes about Islam being a
>beautiful religion. Well, after 911 I decided to see for myself and
>downloaded most of the Koran and started to read it. I haven't read it
>through and I can't say 100% that it is what I think it is, but my
>impression so far is that it is a mish-mash of old testament stories
>combined with the kind of hell and brimstone stuff that would make a
>Southern Baptist pale in comparison. There is no forgiveness, no
>flexibility. Everything is totally black and white, us and them, heaven
>and hell. No possiblility of interpretation or redemption.

I end up with a feeling of ambivalence when I'm trying to decipher
Steiner's take on the Arabs. On the one hand, he says in a lecture
somewhere that we Westerners usually have no idea of the special
relationship an Arab has to the Christ. On the other hand, he also talks
about the Arabic-Islamic world as the one and only corner of the earth
where the culture has not been touched by the Christ Impulse, where they've
managed to dodge the Golgotha Mystery altogether. I still haven't figured
it out.

>And even if that were not enough, one must have a critical eye toward any
>religion in its practice as well as its theory. There is nothing of love
>or understanding or forgiveness in any of its practices, either. There is
>only power and oppression, and I mean particularly to its own people,
>especially women.

On the other hand, the distinction needs to be made between a religion like
that and its individual followers. When spiritual, social, and cultural
impulses and practices that may have been right for an earler age or epoch,
is preserved and continued beyond its rightful time, such streams become
hijacked by ahrimanic and even asuric beings and end up serving the
hindering gods. For this reason, all Old Age religions based upon faith in
old scriptures, supporting a mode of cognition that should have ended
completely around 1950, are becoming increasingly evil, and we're only
seeing the faint beginnings of this.

But remember the Good Samaritan, who today would translate into the Good
Muslim. Dottie seems to be talking about the spirituality of beautiful
souls who happen to be Muslims.

Tarjei
http://uncletaz.com/ 




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Sat Nov 8, 2003 1:34 pm

radistasi
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Message #25 of 50021 |
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Oooh Taz, I feel like like I've got a real knight in shining armor defending me! : ) LOL! I just posted a bit to Dottie, but addressed Frank trying to clarify...
golden3000997@...
golden3000997 Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
8:05 pm

Dear Group: The following was being distributed throughout other Anthroposophic e-groups. The material may be disturbing and quite controversial due to the...
Richard Distasi
radistasi Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
1:31 pm

Dear Richard and Friends, I find my self perplexed when 'feeling' common ground has been take on issues as important as the one state below by Dr. Steiner. My...
dottie zold
dottie_z Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
3:18 pm

Thanks a million, Rick! It's amazing: On my very bookshelf in front of me, I have this lecture cycle - "The Book of Revelation and the Work of the Priest." -...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
5:38 pm

Tarjei, Maybe we have different editions. It might be better to simply list the dates of the two lectures which would be September 11 & 12, 1924. This post...
Richard Distasi
radistasi Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
6:06 pm

... I was thinking along the lines of quoting extensively with a few comments here and there, like I did with the text from "The Challenge of the Times" in the...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 8, 2003
6:51 pm

Tarjei, I'd be interested in your article when you post it to our group as well. rick d. ... From: Tarjei Straume To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com ...
Richard Distasi
radistasi Offline Send Email
Nov 9, 2003
10:02 am

... It may take a while. I'm going to read the entire aforementioned lecture cycle "The Book of Revelation and the work of the priest" first. After that, there...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 9, 2003
7:54 pm

Hi Uncle Taz, I've got the lecture - will type the passage for you in a couple of minutes. Here are more good links - and don't forget David Icke! ...
golden3000997@...
golden3000997 Offline Send Email
Nov 9, 2003
8:17 pm

Karmic Relationships Esoteric Studies Volume V Rudolf Steiner Lecture IV. Prague, 5th April, 1924 First Edition 1966 (Excerpt) In Dornach recently I was able...
golden3000997@...
golden3000997 Offline Send Email
Nov 9, 2003
8:36 pm

Dear Tarjei and Dottie, One thing I think you may have overlooked, Tarjei, is the fact that the "average" muslim is not so different than the average...
J. Gardner
jgardner@... Send Email
Nov 10, 2003
5:03 am

... Waco, Texas? ... I haven't had the chance yet to study the Revelation cycle in question here, but as I understand from RS, the so-called Arabic stream may...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 10, 2003
11:38 am

Hi Dearest Jerry and Tarjei, ... that the ... They're ... difference ... seem to ... extent (I ... Dottie I have been thinking that the main difference is the...
dottie zold
dottie_z Offline Send Email
Nov 11, 2003
4:48 am

Hi Tarjei, I have been reading a wonderful book on Muhammed by Karen Armstrong. In there she mentions something about the history of the Arab people along with...
dottie zold
dottie_z Offline Send Email
Nov 12, 2003
5:30 am

... I'll respond to this with two appropriate RS quotes, giving him two little speeeches. First, here is a quote from Behind the Scenes of External Happenings"...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 12, 2003
7:07 pm

... I have been told that to Muslims, the idea that God should have a son is blasphemous. Christianity, therefore, is an affront to the only true religion of...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 13, 2003
12:06 am

Hey Tarjei, Looking in on your other post, I decided to put two on one:) It feels right to me that this certain group may be praying to their Angel. Who is...
dottie zold
dottie_z Offline Send Email
Nov 13, 2003
1:06 am

... In a previous post entitled "Spiritual warfare, politics and religion" (Tue, 04 Nov), http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/2 I...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 14, 2003
10:43 pm

... This point of yours was actually corroborated by Rudolf Steiner when he said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the emergence of Islam. So RS implies...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 15, 2003
12:02 am

Hi Tarjei, In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to bring to his people. One of the things...
dottie zold
dottie_z Offline Send Email
Nov 15, 2003
5:53 am

Tarjei quoted the following from RSteiner: Can the attribute of omnipotence be ascribed to the Divine Being who lives and weaves through the world? Contentions...
Richard Distasi
radistasi Offline Send Email
Nov 13, 2003
9:36 am

... Oh my, it looks like I have posted the same two RS quotes twice; first Tue Nov 4 in the single post "Spiritual warfare, politics and religion" and then...
Tarjei Straume
elfuncle Offline Send Email
Nov 15, 2003
12:00 am
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