--- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, "Jenny" <strangeseraph@...> wrote:
>
>
> Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o
>

Hi Jenny,

I see you've been typing DV for three days now; I bet you are considerably
faster already!

If you are having pain in your hands as I once did, my advice is to get rid of
the staggered keyboard in favor of the columnar layout that you get on a
Typematrix 20030DV:

http://www.typematrix.com/ordernew/view_2030dv.php

It's got many advantages over other boards, but the best is definately the
straight line key layout.  I used to have a lot of pain in my left wrist caused
by twisting it to the left to reach up and down; and the back of my right hand
hurt from the extra reach to the top row.  The columnar layout combined with the
DV layout allows me to type with very little movement and I can even touch type
the top-row number keys for the first time in my life.

A friend has a MS Natural keyboard and I have tried it, but it's still got that
horrible staggered layout!  As well, I find there are times when you want to
type a bit with one hand and that's really hard to do on a split keyboard.

Another BIG advantage of the Typematrix 2030 is the center placement of the
'enter' and 'backspace' keys.  This helps in a couple ways ...  the center enter
is much easier to reach with either index finger and the backspace key is much
easier than stretching your pinky waaaay up to the right.  As well, this places
your hands 19 mm further apart with the extra column of keys in the center ...
very comfortable.

Other advantages:  the embedded number pad - you just move both hands a little
apart and down - to hold down the left function key to activate the number pad
and to key in numbers with the right.

And concerning cut, copy, and paste.  The 2030 has dedicated keys for these and
they are together just like x c and v on a qwerty.  They can be used one-handed
easily.  Move your left pinky to the Fn key, hold it down and cut, copy, paste
are under your ring middle and index finger.  Easy!

Another dedicated key that I haven't seen on any other keyboard is 'shuffle' 
This works like pressing alt-tab once to switch back and forth between two
applications, but it's done with ONE key... very nice and I really miss it when
I use any other board.

The keyboard is physically smaller; however the keys are the standard 19mm size
so it's a full size layout.  However, it allows you to place the mouse much
closer on either side.  There are only 90 keys, but it does everything a 101 or
102 layout does and much easier.

Someone mentioned AutoHotKey (ahk)- I couldn't live without it.  A couple keys
are rather useless (imo) on any layout - I speak of the scroll lock and the caps
lock.  I use ahk to turn the scroll lock into a toggle for mute/unmute and the
caps lock will click the mouse once at its current position... very useful when
reading something where the 'next page' button is in the same position on every
page.  And the 'backspace' key works as a 'back' key in any browser.  AHK also
can make anything a hotkey - I launch many programs, maximize, minimize, run
macros, move and click the mouse - all without using the start menu or touching
the physical mouse!  My ahk setup script currently has about 3000 lines - it
does too many things to mention here.

My typing history: typed qwerty for 25 years, switched cold turkey to Dvorak 20
years ago, switched to Typematrix about 3 years ago.

When I converted to DV, I went from 60 or 70 wpm to about 15 or 20 the first
week, up to 50 or so within a month and steadily up after that - now I can do
around 90.

Tips: DON'T relapse to get something done quickly; print out a Dvorak picture
and place it between the keyboard and the monitor - you won't need it long; in a
month or so you will be up to 75% or more of your old speed.

Welcome to DVORAK and congrats on your decision!

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, marzolian wrote:

> Jenny,
> I tried Dvorak but it didn't stick for me. It's true that you can type long
stretches and not feel fatigued, but I was having trouble switching back and
forth, and I needed to work on other people's machines.
>
> For me, an "ergonomic" keyboard was more helpful than the Dvorak layout. There
are people in this group who like other keyboards, but the best ones for me are
in the group that includes the Microsoft Natural, and similar ones.
>
> They separate your hands, let your wrists extend straight instead of bending
outward, and roll your thumbs up and your wrists away from the flat-on-the table
configuration.
>
> I also recommend a more ergonomic mouse than the ones that most people use.  I
was having pain in my right wrist a year and a half ago when I bought my first
Wow-Pen Joy.


so I use Dvorak
a MS ergo keyboard
and
a logitech  trackball....

Bob

Jenny,

I tried Dvorak but it didn't stick for me. It's true that you can type long
stretches and not feel fatigued, but I was having trouble switching back and
forth, and I needed to work on other people's machines.

However, I am still very interested in alternative keyboarding and mousing.

For me, an "ergonomic" keyboard was more helpful than the Dvorak layout. There
are people in this group who like other keyboards, but the best ones for me are
in the group that includes the Microsoft Natural, and similar ones.

They separate your hands, let your wrists extend straight instead of bending
outward, and roll your thumbs up and your wrists away from the flat-on-the table
configuration.

I also recommend a more ergonomic mouse than the ones that most people use.  I
was having pain in my right wrist a year and a half ago when I bought my first
Wow-Pen Joy.

http://www.wow-pen.com/new/products/wow_pen_joy.htm

It helped immediately, and I later got one for work. Sorry, it's for righties
only, and it's not wireless.

Microsoft has a "Natural Mouse" that looks like it has the same hand
configuration. The idea is that your right hand is no longer facing palm-down,
but rotated a little bit ... not quite to a handshake position, but in that
direction.

Another thing to look into, especially if you're left handed: Windows lets you
plug in more than one mouse at a time. I left my regular mouse on the left side
of the keyboard, and it comes in handy for a few tasks where I want to click and
do something with my right hand.

Steven

--- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, "Jenny" <strangeseraph@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody. I am typing this very slowly but I'm new here and wanted to
introduce myself. My name is Jenny and I'm a writer and I'm hoping that learning
a new keyboard will help me in a few ways. One, it will teach me to slow down
and actually look at what I'm writing and thus reduce my spelling errors. Two,
hopefully it will reduce the pain I get in my hands, especially the right hand
which I use for the mouse despite being left handed due to the fact that I've
always had to use righty mouse in all the places I've used computers in the past
(school, library, etc) its just easier that way. But my right hand has paid the
price for it. Maybe I'll try changing my mouse too. Finally, I think using
dvorak will be a fun experiment, a real change in my routine.
>
> Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o
>

Thankies! This worked! :D The idea of using a numbers only password is a good
one too!

Thanks everyone!

--- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...> wrote:
>
> Follow the instructions here:
>
>
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Apply-regional-and-language-set\
tings-to-reserved-accounts
>
>
<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Apply-regional-and-language-se\
ttings-to-reserved-accounts>
> --Keith
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 06:03, Jenny <strangeseraph@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've tried
> > setting up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian French. Help!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

You might want to try using a keyboard-agnostic password, using only
0123456789aAmM. Also top-row punctuation, if they're allowed (I forget).
Cheers,
Marcus

On Dec 4, 2009, at 7:03 AM, Jenny wrote:

> Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've
> tried setting up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian
> French. Help!

Follow the instructions here:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Apply-regional-and-language-set\
tings-to-reserved-accounts

<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Apply-regional-and-language-se\
ttings-to-reserved-accounts>
--Keith

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 06:03, Jenny <strangeseraph@...> wrote:

>
>
> Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've tried
> setting up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian French. Help!
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

my first suggestion is to switch to LINUX,
   but in windoze I understand that you can
use Dvorak but you have to log in using Qwerty then your "user" is in
Dvorak but like I said I'm not a M$ user so not sure it works this way

Bob


On Fri, 4 Dec 2009, Joey Mink wrote:

> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:31:54 -0500
> From: Joey Mink <joeymink@...>
> Reply-To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
> To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [altkeyboards] Vista Login Screen help
>
> The only solution to your problem that I know of is reinstallation...not
> that I recommend it.  During install, if you pick US/Dvorak as your keyboard
> layout when prompted, then *everything* defaults to Dvorak, including the
> login screen.
>
> There used to be a registry key I used in Windows 2000/XP (found online
> somewhere) that would force a key re-mapping to Dvorak (for everything), but
> I haven't used it in a long time and don't know where to find it anymore
> (might find it via some internet searches).
>
> Good luck!
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Jenny <strangeseraph@...> wrote:
>
>> Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've tried
>> setting up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian French. Help!
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@eGroups.com
>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>> altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

The only solution to your problem that I know of is reinstallation...not
that I recommend it.  During install, if you pick US/Dvorak as your keyboard
layout when prompted, then *everything* defaults to Dvorak, including the
login screen.

There used to be a registry key I used in Windows 2000/XP (found online
somewhere) that would force a key re-mapping to Dvorak (for everything), but
I haven't used it in a long time and don't know where to find it anymore
(might find it via some internet searches).

Good luck!

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Jenny <strangeseraph@...> wrote:

> Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've tried
> setting up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian French. Help!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vista won't let me login with dvorak, or any of the keyboards I've tried setting
up, it'll only give me US English and Canadian French. Help!

Congratulations on taking the initiative to learn something that most
of the world has never heard of, and which will benefit you greatly
for years.

I learned Dvorak after typing with Qwerty for 20 years.  It took me a
month of slow typing before I could hope to get any serious writing
done, and another month or two before my speed matched my old Qwerty
speed.  But after that it was smooth sailing.  I now type much faster,
and never get the finger and hand pain I used to.  A bonus is, I've
found I can go back to Qwerty with reasonable speed - much slower than
Dvorak, but not really bad for short stints.  Occasionally I type at
someone else's computer, and it's often easier to use Qwerty than to
switch their key mapping.

Good luck.  It's worth it.  And again, congratulations.

- Steve
Fairfax, Virginia, USA


On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:57 PM, Jenny wrote:

> Hi everybody. I am typing this very slowly but I'm new here and
> wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jenny and I'm a writer and
> I'm hoping that learning a new keyboard will help me in a few ways.
> One, it will teach me to slow down and actually look at what I'm
> writing and thus reduce my spelling errors. Two, hopefully it will
> reduce the pain I get in my hands, especially the right hand which I
> use for the mouse despite being left handed due to the fact that
> I've always had to use righty mouse in all the places I've used
> computers in the past (school, library, etc) its just easier that
> way. But my right hand has paid the price for it. Maybe I'll try
> changing my mouse too. Finally, I think using dvorak will be a fun
> experiment, a real change in my routine.
>
> Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o
>
>
>

- Steve







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny,

What he said...

It took me about two weeks during a winter break to learn the layout, and then a
couple months to become proficient. You may or may not get faster. I was faster
much faster. But I'm not writing as much as I once was. (My eldest daughter, A
Junior in collage) types at 100 WPM+ with errors, but she is somewhat a freak of
nature when it comes to reading and writing.

The biggest difference I've noticed is the endurance, you can type much longer
without fatigue.

And don't worry about that other layout. It's just fine when you are all thumbs.

Try to practice words repetitively to get your muscles to get the idea (but take
it easy).

Best of luck
Fred


On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:23 PM, accessys@... wrote:

> welcome,  I've been typing Dvorak exclusively for over 20 years now so it
> does get much better.
>
> what I found that helped was to print out the keyboard layout and tape it
> up on the top of your monitor and just look at that when you need to
> check.
>
> took me about 2 months when I switched after 25 years of touch typing the
> "other" way to get back to my old comfort and speed, in about 6 months I
> was about 20wpm faster and have not had any hand problems since I
> switched.
>
> some people try to retain their old skills but I just let them fade and
> look at the keys when needed.
>
> so hang in there and good luck, I typed this about as fast as you read it
> so you will do well and have a little patience with yourself

welcome,  I've been typing Dvorak exclusively for over 20 years now so it
does get much better.

what I found that helped was to print out the keyboard layout and tape it
up on the top of your monitor and just look at that when you need to
check.

took me about 2 months when I switched after 25 years of touch typing the
"other" way to get back to my old comfort and speed, in about 6 months I
was about 20wpm faster and have not had any hand problems since I
switched.

some people try to retain their old skills but I just let them fade and
look at the keys when needed.

so hang in there and good luck, I typed this about as fast as you read it
so you will do well and have a little patience with yourself


Bob.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009, Jenny wrote:

> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:57:11 -0000
> From: Jenny <strangeseraph@...>
> Reply-To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
> To: altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [altkeyboards] New dvorak user!
>
> Hi everybody. I am typing this very slowly but I'm new here and wanted to
introduce myself. My name is Jenny and I'm a writer and I'm hoping that learning
a new keyboard will help me in a few ways. One, it will teach me to slow down
and actually look at what I'm writing and thus reduce my spelling errors. Two,
hopefully it will reduce the pain I get in my hands, especially the right hand
which I use for the mouse despite being left handed due to the fact that I've
always had to use righty mouse in all the places I've used computers in the past
(school, library, etc) its just easier that way. But my right hand has paid the
price for it. Maybe I'll try changing my mouse too. Finally, I think using
dvorak will be a fun experiment, a real change in my routine.
>
> Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o
>
>

Welcome, Jenny, to the wonderful world of Dvorak typing and of making
interesting typos (like explaining that you really didn't mean to drink a
"punt" but rather a "pint" and the error was the result of all the vowels
being next to each other on your "special" keyboard arrangement.

Or of the random tying out of completely random gibberish when at 2 PM some
random lazy afternoon your mind somehow switches to qwerty for about ten
seconds midsteam through a mad typing session and you don't catch the error
right away.

Aside from these random nuisances (and finding a new way to CTRL C and CTRL
V - for which I'll offer a recommendation in a moment) swapping to Dvorak is
a dream come true.

Not only will you probably completely eliminate your muscle fatigue, but
you'll finding that typing is simply more comfortable overall.

Sure, you are typing rather slowly right now, but RESIST the temptation to
swap back to QWERTY to "quickly get done" with something unless it's really
really necessary.

Also, don't look at the keyboard while you are re-learning but rather, if
you need, print out the new arrangement and place it at eye level. That way,
you do not get in to the habit of looking down at the keyboard - a habit
that will hurt you in the long run.

Now about those CTRL C and CTRL V shortcuts.

If you're on a MAC, they have an arrangement that is Dvorak unless COMMAND
is held down. On Windows, download a program called AutoHotKey, install it,
then set up a custom script with this:

#o::#s
^;::^c
^q::^v
^`::^q

You can skip the #o line if you don't want to remap Windows_O to Windows_S
(I use OneNote and that's the fast way to screen cap which I like the
placement of it)

The rest remaps CTRL ; (that's semicolon) to CTRL C and CTRL Q to CTRL V and
finally (since I have one application I have to actually use a CTRL Q in
every once in a while) it maps CTRL ` (the grave character found to the left
of the "1" at the top of the keyboard) to CTRL Q.

Or more simply, "copy" becomes CTRL ; and "paste" becomes CTRL Q. Easy.

--Keith

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 14:57, Jenny <strangeseraph@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi everybody. I am typing this very slowly but I'm new here and wanted to
> introduce myself. My name is Jenny and I'm a writer and I'm hoping that
> learning a new keyboard will help me in a few ways. One, it will teach me to
> slow down and actually look at what I'm writing and thus reduce my spelling
> errors. Two, hopefully it will reduce the pain I get in my hands, especially
> the right hand which I use for the mouse despite being left handed due to
> the fact that I've always had to use righty mouse in all the places I've
> used computers in the past (school, library, etc) its just easier that way.
> But my right hand has paid the price for it. Maybe I'll try changing my
> mouse too. Finally, I think using dvorak will be a fun experiment, a real
> change in my routine.
>
> Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everybody. I am typing this very slowly but I'm new here and wanted to
introduce myself. My name is Jenny and I'm a writer and I'm hoping that learning
a new keyboard will help me in a few ways. One, it will teach me to slow down
and actually look at what I'm writing and thus reduce my spelling errors. Two,
hopefully it will reduce the pain I get in my hands, especially the right hand
which I use for the mouse despite being left handed due to the fact that I've
always had to use righty mouse in all the places I've used computers in the past
(school, library, etc) its just easier that way. But my right hand has paid the
price for it. Maybe I'll try changing my mouse too. Finally, I think using
dvorak will be a fun experiment, a real change in my routine.

Well that's it, this post took me 40 minutes to write. o-o

Now that the Mac market has grown, Mac users are finally getting some
real 3rd party keyboards with Mac savviness out of the box:

Logitech diNovo Mac Edition Keyboard
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-diNovo-Mac-Edition-Keyboard/dp/B001M4N956/ref=pd_\
ts_e_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Logitech DiNovo Edge Rechargeable Bluetooth Keyboard for Mac
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-920-000924-Rechargeable-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B00\
1E2NID4

Kensington Ci73 Wired Keyboard
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Keyboard-Profile-Design-K64397US/dp/B0014J1P64/\
ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259598336&sr=8-5

Note that for the Mac, it's generally desirable to have Command keys
next to the space bar on both sides due to all the Mac shortcuts like
Command+S, Command+P, etc.

Now if only they could stack the keys in columns like TypeMatrix and
Kinesis... And mark the letter keys as Dvorak or blank them...


-Chuck
--
http://chuckesterbrook.com/

Yes, I am interested in knowing what I can know about this. I had a
Palm for a month but returned it because it would not bluetooth with
my Mac. So traveling the road less traveled I have a least 2
difficulties to overcome with a phone. Mac compatibility and Dvorak.
I choose Dvorak because I know where all the keys are already so it
would be very easy to use compared to QWERTY.

I will try Googling Phones I want but very few will work with a Mac
and also I refuse to change my Plan with is very cheap having
unlimited roaming on 2 phones and unlimited data plan on one all for
the price of $45/month. plus unreasonable taxes. I will get 2 new
phones for the plan which will return me to a 2 year contract. Ok so
what if I use it.

So it's back to try another model of the Palm and/or the Samsung Ace
which is not supported for Mac but has free software and a $30
software to make it work. The unsupported is tricky because no one
might be there to help set stuff up. It took hours on the phone just
to get the Palm Centro to Sync nominally with my Mac but as stated it
would not bluetooth. I didn't have enough hours before the one month
trial was over so I sent the phone back before we could get the
bluetooth to work.
Paul


On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:37 AM, Marcus Brooks wrote:

> Hey y'all,
> Has anybody out there managed to find a PDA cell phone, like a Treo
> 755 or newer, from any provider, that supports Dvorak keymaps? I know
> there was a keymap for the old Handsprings, and I think there was one
> for Palm, but everything's a cell phone nowadays.
>
> I got email about this from someone, and I don't know what to tell
> them. I guess they're using an external folding keyboard like the
> Stowaway or somesuch, or they've got really tiny fingers. (I can't
> imagine touch typing on the phone itself, but I am a little ham-
> fisted.)
>
> I'd appreciate any suggestions; well, any I'm likely to get from this
> group.
> Cheers,
> Marcus
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a piece of software called SPB Keyboard for Windows Mobile
devices that supports a number of different keyboard layouts including
Dvorak. It is a replacement software keyboard for Windows Mobile and
has a full-screen, landscape mode that is supposed to allow touch
typing.

I used it on an HTC Touch (a.k.a. T-Mobile MDA, HTC Elf), which has no
hardware keypad and relies solely on the touch screen for user input.
I found the software a little unresponsive and hard to use mainly due
to the PDA's processing power. But maybe with a faster device with a
slightly larger screen it could be good.

You'll find details of the latest version of SPB Keyboard at
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/fsk/.

2009/11/10 Marcus Brooks <marcus@...>
> Has anybody out there managed to find a PDA cell phone, like a Treo
> 755 or newer, from any provider, that supports Dvorak keymaps? I know
> there was a keymap for the old Handsprings, and I think there was one
> for Palm, but everything's a cell phone nowadays.
>
> I got email about this from someone, and I don't know what to tell
> them. I guess they're using an external folding keyboard like the
> Stowaway or somesuch, or they've got really tiny fingers. (I can't
> imagine touch typing on the phone itself, but I am a little ham-fisted.)
>
> I'd appreciate any suggestions; well, any I'm likely to get from this
> group.

Hi Marcus.

I can't help directly, but would be very interested in the answers you
get.  I have a co-worker with an iPhone, so we poked around on that.
No joy, but he's never attached a keyboard to it so that's not a
definitive answer.  A google search on the subject turned up this:

http://kasperowski.com/2008/05/iphone-dvorak-keyboard.html

Doesn't sound easy, but it would appear it can be done.  Comments show
there are problems, and the phone has to be jailbroken - which may be
deal breaker for some.

I think this is how you would have to tackle it: one phone at a time
on Google.  I would suggest they get a list of available phones, start
with the one they like the best, google it, and work their way down
the list until they find the best combination of phone and ease of
Dvorak installation.  I hope it works out for them.

--
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr@...

Hey y'all,
Has anybody out there managed to find a PDA cell phone, like a Treo
755 or newer, from any provider, that supports Dvorak keymaps? I know
there was a keymap for the old Handsprings, and I think there was one
for Palm, but everything's a cell phone nowadays.

I got email about this from someone, and I don't know what to tell
them. I guess they're using an external folding keyboard like the
Stowaway or somesuch, or they've got really tiny fingers. (I can't
imagine touch typing on the phone itself, but I am a little ham-fisted.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions; well, any I'm likely to get from this
group.
Cheers,
Marcus

> > The point is, my office computer wasn't mine.  Someone else in
> > the office might have to use my computer for some reason, and
> > so the computer needed to stay in Qwerty mode.  I wasn't going
> > to deactivate Dvorak any time I got up, or reactivate it when
> > I sat back down.
>
> Sounds like musical chairs to me! :-)
> The stereotype in France is that American people are so
> much more mobile that we are. This exceeds any expectations I
> had! :-)

As a matter of fact, it's likely that no one on that project ever used "my"
computer when I wasn't there, except for a temporary  replacement when I took
some time off.  But it was possible.

Part of the situation was, I was not a permanent employee but a contractor.
That's typical in the USA for a specialist such a translator, who is not part of
a regular company structure, and especially on a project with a limited duration
(in this case, 1-2 years).

Therefore, I was not entitled to all the privileges or benefits of an employee,
such as subsidized health insurance, contributions to a retirement or pension
plan, profit-sharing or bonuses, etc. Also, I didn't get a year-end bonus.  My
customers don't come to me in December and say, "Remember that job you did such
a good job on, back in August?  Here's some more money!" Also, there's no paid
vacations, severance pay, or unemployment benefits at the end of the job.

That company took things a little bit farther and didn't allow contractors to
have Internet access and a few other petty distinctions.

But that assignment was years ago.  I'm still a contractor and responsible for
my own benefits. And I like working with "customers" quite a lot more than the
"bosses" I have had. Aside from health care, I don't mind making my own
decisions about pension plans and other financial matters. And my current
customer provides Internet, access to the company gym, a free flu vaccination,
and an invitation to the Christmas party :-)

Back on the subject: on my current assignment, I have brought in my own keyboard
(Microsoft Natural), mouse (Wow-Pen Joy) and specialized software (including a
"translation memory" program).

Steven
www.techlanguage.com

I have a hard wired keyboard. It pretty much eliminates all the afore
mentioned issues.

--Keith

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 08:16, Marco Amans <marco.amans@...> wrote:

> marzolian ha scritto:
> >> This makes it very unlikely that you cannot use Dvorak on any
> >> computer.
> >
> > That's not the point.  This all happened before USB memory (flash
> > drives, pen drives, thumb drives) became common place.  Or before I
> > knew anything about AutoHotKey.
>
> I know. I just wanted to point to possibilities there are now.
>
> > Besides, I know how to activate
> > Dvorak via Windows.
> AFAIK, you must be administrator to install the dvorak driver.
> The advantage of autohotkey on usb is that you don’t need any special
> right. You just need to be allowed to plug-in a USB key.
>
> > The point is, my office computer wasn't mine.  Someone else in the
> > office might have to use my computer for some reason, and so the
> > computer needed to stay in Qwerty mode.  I wasn't going to deactivate
> > Dvorak any time I got up, or reactivate it when I sat back down.
>
> Sounds like musical chairs to me! :-)
> The stereotype in France is that American people are so much more mobile
> that we are. This exceeds any expectations I had! :-)
>
> > Even though that problem has gone away, the Dvorak layout is still
> > not the best option for me.
>
> Same here. An additional problem for me is that there is no standardized
> Dvorak like keyboard layout optimized for French.
>
> There is the project BEPO though that seems quite attractive in theory.
> http://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   altkeyboards@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> altkeyboards-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marzolian ha scritto:
>> This makes it very unlikely that you cannot use Dvorak on any
>> computer.
>
> That's not the point.  This all happened before USB memory (flash
> drives, pen drives, thumb drives) became common place.  Or before I
> knew anything about AutoHotKey.

I know. I just wanted to point to possibilities there are now.

> Besides, I know how to activate
> Dvorak via Windows.
AFAIK, you must be administrator to install the dvorak driver.
The advantage of autohotkey on usb is that you don’t need any special
right. You just need to be allowed to plug-in a USB key.

> The point is, my office computer wasn't mine.  Someone else in the
> office might have to use my computer for some reason, and so the
> computer needed to stay in Qwerty mode.  I wasn't going to deactivate
> Dvorak any time I got up, or reactivate it when I sat back down.

Sounds like musical chairs to me! :-)
The stereotype in France is that American people are so much more mobile
that we are. This exceeds any expectations I had! :-)

> Even though that problem has gone away, the Dvorak layout is still
> not the best option for me.

Same here. An additional problem for me is that there is no standardized
Dvorak like keyboard layout optimized for French.

There is the project BEPO though that seems quite attractive in theory.
http://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil

--- In altkeyboards@yahoogroups.com, Marco Amans <marco.amans@...> wrote:
>
> marzolian ha scritto:
> > Dvorak's keyboard up with was a definite improvement over QWERTY, and
> > I wish people had listened to him way back when.  I made a real
> > effort to use it about 13 years ago. The main reason I didn't
> > continue was because I was working at a client's office, on a machine
> > that other people would use once in a while. I wasn't allowed to
> > activate Dvorak on it.
>
> You can remap your keyboard to Dvorak layout using an
> Autohotkey script with portable Autohotkey on a USB key.
>
> This makes it very unlikely that you cannot use Dvorak on
> any computer.

That's not the point.  This all happened before USB memory (flash drives, pen
drives, thumb drives) became common place.  Or before I knew anything about
AutoHotKey. Besides, I know how to activate Dvorak via Windows.

The point is, my office computer wasn't mine.  Someone else in the office might
have to use my computer for some reason, and so the computer needed to stay in
Qwerty mode.  I wasn't going to deactivate Dvorak any time I got up, or
reactivate it when I sat back down.

Even though that problem has gone away, the Dvorak layout is still not the best
option for me.

Steven

Well first, thanks for bringing up an interesting topic. But I had
trouble sifting through your web site so here are some convenient
links for our readers on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltron_keyboard

http://maltron.com/

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=maltron

http://www.google.com/search?q=maltron

I had looked at the Maltron before, but at the time it was expensive
and not available in the U.S. (except as an import). I wasn't sure if
I would like it or how easy it would be to return if I didn't. ... It
appears that much has not changed.

I'm not as negative as you are on the Dvorak layout. It substantially
reduces finger motion, takes advantage of "drumming" and reduces
strain. That's all great stuff!

Yes, Mr. Dvorak fell short of changing the physical keyboard. He still
made a nice contribution, as did Kroemer.

In your own words, the Maltrons are "damn expensive" and possible not
available in the U.S. And it sounds like you haven't tried one yet
(neither have I). So doesn't it make sense to recommend
TypeMatrix/Dvorak and Kinesis/Dvorak in the mean time?

-Chuck
--
http://chuckesterbrook.com/

When you take a good look outside the box that is Qwerty you will find a stellar
option that makes even Dvorak look pale by comparison.  It is the Maltron
Keyboard which is both a physical keyboard and a letter layout.  All Dvorak did
was use the Qwerty physical keyboard and put his lettering system on it. 
Kroemer who is the inventor of the split keyboard discovered that by placing the
keys in the staggered array that they are in today places undue strain upon the
hands, especially the left hand which is forced to operate totally unnaturally.

Louise Maltron from England invented a total package over 40 years ago that
makes it possible to type almost as fast as one can think, thus making direct
thought patterns available in real time. For those who do not yet have a Dvorak
urging them to switch to one would make you as guilty as was Sholes, who did not
do what he did out of malice but necessity.  He had to make the mechanism work
and to do so he fiddled with the language.

Now that we have this knowledge to ask anyone to use either Qwerty or Dvorak is
a sin.  Neither is as effective as a Maltron and the only reason I've not
switched yet because they are so damned expensive.  I did find one company
making them in the US called Ergo-comp but they have suspended production at
least the last time I checked.  I am going to check again in a couple of minutes
and will report back if I find they are back in production.

In the meantime visit my site http://lightoftheworld.com for more information
the secondary video box contains a short video I found on Youtube.  It is the
third video and it will take you about less than ten minutes to get to.  There
is also a direct link to their site which has very valuable information on
repetitive stress injury and how the Maltron is the only layout that can cure
it.

P.S.  By the way, the Kinesis which I've written about extensively is only a
knock-off of the Maltron.

Man, if you develop some kind of typing diet, please let me know, I'm really
looking for it. (And you will really make some money with every anxious nerd
in the world)
Felipe

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Keith Ratliff <dracorat@...> wrote:

>
>
> Nor have I heard of "The Typist Diet" - but I'm sure some crazy out there
> wants one.
> --Keith
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 18:08, Chuck Esterbrook
> <Chuck.Esterbrook@... <Chuck.Esterbrook%40gmail.com>>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM, marzolian
<marzolian@...<marzolian%40yahoo.com>
> <marzolian%40yahoo.com>>
>
> > wrote:
> > > 6. Finally: we assume that QWERTY is bad because it makes our fingers
> > work harder. Yet, in most fields of physical human endeavor, we WANT to
> make
> > our bodies work harder. Most of us should exercise more. People who
> exercise
> > live longer. Just a feeling, but I don't think my body is being
> permanently
> > damaged by using QWERTY (on an ergo keyboard), regardless of the key
> > arrangement.
> > >
> >
> > Some work 8, 10, 12 hours a day, which may include you. I don't know.
> > But try running for 8 hours straight. Or lifting weights for 12. It's
> > neither easy nor healthy. The danger with Qwerty is RSI which can show
> > up years down the road.
> >
> > The greatest benefit I received when switching to Dvorak was the sense
> > and relaxation and comfort I felt (after the training period). For me
> > at least, it wasn't about speed. I was already the
> > crazy-spider-fingers-programmer-guy.
> >
> > Now I'm a smooth operator. :-)
> >
> > Btw ergonomic and dvorak aren't exclusive choices, nor do they reduce
> > each other's value. I embrace both for maximum benefit.
> >
> > -Chuck
> > --
> > http://chuckesterbrook.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nor have I heard of "The Typist Diet" - but I'm sure some crazy out there
wants one.
--Keith

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 18:08, Chuck Esterbrook
<Chuck.Esterbrook@...>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM, marzolian
<marzolian@...<marzolian%40yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
> > 6. Finally: we assume that QWERTY is bad because it makes our fingers
> work harder. Yet, in most fields of physical human endeavor, we WANT to make
> our bodies work harder. Most of us should exercise more. People who exercise
> live longer. Just a feeling, but I don't think my body is being permanently
> damaged by using QWERTY (on an ergo keyboard), regardless of the key
> arrangement.
> >
>
> Some work 8, 10, 12 hours a day, which may include you. I don't know.
> But try running for 8 hours straight. Or lifting weights for 12. It's
> neither easy nor healthy. The danger with Qwerty is RSI which can show
> up years down the road.
>
> The greatest benefit I received when switching to Dvorak was the sense
> and relaxation and comfort I felt (after the training period). For me
> at least, it wasn't about speed. I was already the
> crazy-spider-fingers-programmer-guy.
>
> Now I'm a smooth operator. :-)
>
> Btw ergonomic and dvorak aren't exclusive choices, nor do they reduce
> each other's value. I embrace both for maximum benefit.
>
> -Chuck
> --
> http://chuckesterbrook.com/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM, marzolian <marzolian@...> wrote:
> 6. Finally: we assume that QWERTY is bad because it makes our fingers work
harder. Yet, in most fields of physical human endeavor, we WANT to make our
bodies work harder. Most of us should exercise more. People who exercise live
longer. Just a feeling, but I don't think my body is being permanently damaged
by using QWERTY (on an ergo keyboard), regardless of the key arrangement.
>

Some work 8, 10, 12 hours a day, which may include you. I don't know.
But try running for 8 hours straight. Or lifting weights for 12. It's
neither easy nor healthy. The danger with Qwerty is RSI which can show
up years down the road.

The greatest benefit I received when switching to Dvorak was the sense
and relaxation and comfort I felt (after the training period). For me
at least, it wasn't about speed. I was already the
crazy-spider-fingers-programmer-guy.

Now I'm a smooth operator.  :-)

Btw ergonomic and dvorak aren't exclusive choices, nor do they reduce
each other's value. I embrace both for maximum benefit.


-Chuck
--
http://chuckesterbrook.com/

2009/10/20 Marco Amans <marco.amans@...>
> marzolian ha scritto:
>
> > Dvorak's keyboard up with was a definite improvement over QWERTY, and
> > I wish people had listened to him way back when. I made a real
> > effort to use it about 13 years ago. The main reason I didn't
> > continue was because I was working at a client's office, on a machine
> > that other people would use once in a while. I wasn't allowed to
> > activate Dvorak on it.
>
> You can remap your keyboard to Dvorak layout using an Autohotkey script
> with portable Autohotkey on a USB key.
>
> This makes it very unlikely that you cannot use Dvorak on any computer.

Many places don't allow executables to be run from removable media.
This is why I ended up buying a second Kinesis Advantage for work.  An
expensive solution, and not for everyone.

--
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr@...

marzolian ha scritto:
> Dvorak's keyboard up with was a definite improvement over QWERTY, and
> I wish people had listened to him way back when.  I made a real
> effort to use it about 13 years ago. The main reason I didn't
> continue was because I was working at a client's office, on a machine
> that other people would use once in a while. I wasn't allowed to
> activate Dvorak on it.

You can remap your keyboard to Dvorak layout using an Autohotkey script
with portable Autohotkey on a USB key.

This makes it very unlikely that you cannot use Dvorak on any computer.

http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic8145.html