avid,<br><br>I checked the back of my Altair.  The serial number listed is 
223657K.<br><br>Harold

ere is a list I acquire from various
web,newsgroup, and email requests.<br><br>steve<br><br>Model:
Cardboard Mockup Altair<br>Number made: 1<br><br>Picture in
Popular Electronics Cover Page <br>This was cardboard
mock up used because<br>the real Altair was built too
late to<br>meet the magazine deadline for photo
<br><br>Model: Prototype Altair<br>Number made: 5<br><br>5
prototypes were made before serial<br>number 1, read about
someone who<br>has one of them<br><br>Model:
8800<br>Number made: 4000-5000<br>Serial Number: 22xxxxy<br>22
is part number of cabinet and power supply<br>xxxx
is actual serial number 0 -4xxx<br>y= K for kit or A
for assembled<br><br>Other part numbers<br>50 = CONT
control board<br>10 = CPU<br>15 = 256 Words Memory
board<br><br>Sample serial numbers and some dates of
production,<br>you can estimate when yours was made with this
<br>data<br><br>22 0005 A<br>22 0039 K <br>22 0406 K Date
2/4/75<br>22 0479 K<br>22 0864 K<br>22 1089 A<br>22 1162 K
<br>22 1476 K 4/2/75 on warrenty card<br>22 1498 K<br>22
1639 K<br>22 2004 A<br>22 2214 K<br>22 2217 K<br>22
2280 K<br>22 2256 K 4/24/75 invoice <br>22 2504 K
<br>22 2608 K  <br>22 2654 K <br>22 3025 K<br>22 3081 K
10/75 estimate from owner<br>22 3087 K <br>22 3543
<br>22 3652 K<br><br>Model: 8800  Rackmount version of
8800<br><br>Used in MITS desktop, basic 8800, extended a couple
inches to fit into cabinet<br><br> <br><br>Model: 8800A
(type 1 silkscreen)<br>Number Made: 2000?<br>Serial
Number: 22xxxxy (same as original)<br><br>Updated version
of 8800, larger supply, flat switches, but<br>pretty
much the same as 8800 <br><br>22 5948K<br><br>Model:
8800A (type 2 silkscreen)<br>New silkscreen, fixed
power up switch<br><br><br>Model: 8800B <br>Serial
Number 54 xxxx y or 200- xxxxxxx<br>xxxx = serial number
starting from 0000 to 0????<br>y = K for kit or A for
assembled<br><br>Model: 8800B(T) <br>Serial Number: 54 xxxxy or
300-xxxxxx<br><br>Model: 8800B-SM (T) with built in Mini Floppy (Foley)
<br>Serial Number: 600-xxxxx

i all,<br><br>Can you all submit the serial numbers on the altair models you
own? <br><br>I am updating my list. Thanks.<br><br>David

k David<br>I didn't know that was a prop. I
certainly never saw a real Altair like it. <br>However, as
I remember back, there was a tale (obviously in
some magazine article, since I never knew anyone with
direct info) that the original was being shipped via the
Railroad Express Agency and while that Altair was in
transit, they declared bankrupcy and dissolved. Like you
said, it was never seen again.<br>kenfarmer47@...

ere are some photos of Altair systems<br>that I
have owned and sold. I kept<br>one kit machine and the
8800b-sm machine for<br>my collection. If anyone has
diskettes with basic<br>for the "Foley" machine, I would
love to have
<br>copies.<br><br><a href=http://www.owens-export.com/altair.html
target=new>http://www.owens-export.com/altair.html</a>

i Ken,<br><br>The original picture that appears
on Popular Electronics 1/75 is actually a dummied up
version of the Altair 8800. The computer didn't even
exist at that time. The prototype was lost in the
mail.. If anybody ever finds that particular unit, it
will be considered a "holy grail" of Altairs and
probably fetch a great price.<br><br>David

have begun to notice, as I collect information
on Altairs, that there must have been several models
of the original - that is, the model before the
8800b came out - I haven't started on the B model
yet.<br><br>The model in the original Pop Electronics ad has kind
of a simplistic appearance, kind of like a homebrew
micro. Some of the "A" models have different logo strips
on the bottom, some have different paint colors,
some have the leds in octal groups, others in just a
straight row. It may just be front panel cosmetics, but I
assume that the insides were modified also, as
improvements were added.<br><br>These are just an observations
on my part. Didn't happen notice the differences
back when Altairs were new. Am kind of curious about
just how many different flavors there were, if anyone
happens to know.<br><br>kenfarmer47@...

'm working from memory, as my documentation has
disappeared.. But as I recall, the POR on the early kits was
generated by a circuit that could fail to generate a pulse
if the power cycled inappropriately. The 555
circuit, or a one-shot, w/ a diode in the timing circuit
to discharge the timing capacitor was the
recommended fix.

recently acquired an Altair 8800 unit that was
assembled as a kit. The unit did not function, but after
replacing some of the buss driver ic's and repairing the
power supply, I was able to get the computer to nearly
function. <br>During my investigation I had to literally
disassemble the computer, and I found a small circuit add-on.
The circuit consisted of a single 555 timer chip
buffered by a 7404. The circuit acted as a "one-shot" to
lengthen the Reset to the computer. I have not found any
documentation about this small circuit, but some people have
suggested the modification was needed for the original MITS
dynamic ram board. Does anyone have any information about
this?<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Harold Rothwell (hrothjr)

'm compiling a list of Altair related docs..
Could some of the more knowledgable Altair-heads,
itemize for me what was published?<br><br>I know
specifically about the Altair Notes issues that came out of
MITS. By the way, maybe Forrest Mims can enlighten us
on what issues of Altair Notes they are? How many
volumes? when were they published? etc.<br><br>Catch ya
all later,<br>David

ere is some trivia for BASIC
collectors.<br><br>The MITS BASIC source will be difficult to find. It
was valuable intellectual property. MITS had
exclusive rights until Microsoft took them to court. I
believe it was written on a Dec-10 cross assembler. I
think MITS used a Dec-20 at Albuquerque Public
Schools.<br><br>The last Altair BASIC was almost identical to CP/M's
MBASIC4. I think it would only work with MITS disks
controllers and serial ports.<br><br>Other BASICs that would
be interesting to have are 4K BASIC on paper tape,
BASIC on KCACR casette tapes, MITS Timeshared BASIC and
ROM BASIC. ROM BASIC would something good to port to
an Altair simulator.<br><br>A rare BASIC would be
MTX. Just before the PCC200 came out, there was a
Business BASIC II clone for the 300/55 hard disk
system.<br><br>Versions of BASIC to avoid are 300-5-A, B, D, and E. All
had faster PRINT USING and faster garbage collection.
The only version were the improved garbage collection
worked was 300-5-F. The 300-5-C version was stable and
had the original garbage collection.<br><br>Does
anyone have a manual for ROM BASIC? I'd like to know
what language features were supported. It is somewhere
between 3.1 and 4.1 with disk I/O removed.<br><br>I don't
think there was ever a MITS BASIC compiler for the
Altair. There were Fortran and PASCAL compilers.

would really like a copy of the Basic your are referring to.<br>I have been
collecting other BASIC versions, but most are for
CP/M.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Harold Rothwell

have another BASIC interpreter for the
ALTAIR,<br>with strings support. It is called MINOL, and<br>dates
1976. I have the full source and docs for<br>it, so if
there is anybody who wants it, I can<br>email it. By
the way, this wonderful interpreter<br>takes only
1.75 kilobytes of memory !!!<br><br>I am DESESPERATLY
looking for:<br><br>- a copy of the ALTAIR BASIC by Bill
Gates and<br> Paul Allen: source and/or binary
file<br><br>- a copy of the TINY BASIC for the Altair, ONLY<br>
IF it is an adaptation of the PALO ALTO version<br>
from 1976. I have the sources of the original<br> PALO
ALTO TINY BASIC.<br><br><br>I also have another
language interpreter for the<br>Altair, but I don't
remember the name yet.<br><br><br>Anyone can help with
BASIC files ?

avey,<br><br>I already know about these
programs.<br>But they are not user friendly. They have
no<br>interface to external pluggins (which could<br>allow
emulation of VDU cards, etc...).<br><br>Moreover, the
internal 8080 core has a strong<br>bug in the POP
instruction. I emailed the<br>author about this, but I never
got a reply. I<br>don't know if the bug has been
fixed or not.<br><br>What I want to do is make a REAL
emulator, which<br>for example allows users to connect a
REAL paper<br>tape reader, a REAL tape reader, or even
simulate<br>the floppy drives so you can re-use your
old<br>diskettes and programs.<br><br>I don't think the existing
emulator does this.<br>And even if there is a S100.DLL
"interdace" file,<br>I don't really think we can do much with
it.<br><br><br>David.

y MITS Altair is a 680b; the one with the
switches & LEDs, not the "turn-key" edition. Internally, I
was carefully modified it to accept a 680b-to-SS50
bus extender card (of my own design) and to improve
performance. The mods incuded replacing the clock crystal to
increase processor speed to nearly 1MHz (original speed
was 500KHz) and replacing the MITS monitor ROM with
the Southwestern Tech Products SWTBUG monitor ROMs.
The ROM mod required careful severing & rerouting of
some PC traces & making a socket adapter to plug into
the old ROM socket. An additional power transformer
was added (per MITS design) to satisfy the current
demands of the plug-in boards I added. <br> These mods
were an attempt to make more use of the computer as
MITS never went very far with it but there was a lot
of 68xx activity on the SS-50 bus standard. The mods
were pretty well documented. I could probably reverse
them all as I kept the original parts. I had thought
to write an article about the mods and bus
extender/converter, but never got around to it before the interest in
such machines was replaced by newer generation
computers.<br> My 680b was outfitted with a PERTEC LFD-400 dual
floppy system, a 48KB RAM card and an I/O card. I ran it
with a STAR dot-matrix printer, and a Hazeltine 1500
keyboard/video-monitor. I used the system mostly to tinker with and do
some simple word processing using a Text Editor.

oes anyone have the Altair Basic source code? This is the source code that Gates
and Allen originally developed not Tiny Basic.<br><br>Let me know,<br>David

ince actual Altairs have become the providence
of the investors, unless you are lucky enough to
have one left over or are very wealthy you are
probably out of luck. (I saw a real junker go at a
computer club auction for almost 5 grand, in a mob scene
that reminded me of a feeding frenzy of sharks). Since
I started back in the mid '70s I am one of the
lucky ones but I decided a while back that one is not
enough.<br><br>I started building Altair replicas - (hobby only,
not for sale, don't intend to make a nickel from
them) not absolute internal copies but a box that would
almost fool the average micro hobbiest. The case was
easy, just give the specifications to the local sheet
metal shop, or better yet, show them one. The front
panel was somewhat harder, but with patience, a drill
press, and a local hobby painter I think that it would
pass for the real thing, until you look inside. The
only difference on the front is that I use the word
Altaira rather than the MITS Altair. To date, no one has
noticed until I point it out which I consider to be very
interesting. Plus it keeps me away from the admittedly remote
possibility of a visit by a trademark lawyer. <br><br>By the
way, a front panel can be made from a sheet of 40
thousands aluminum and 25 dollars worth of switches and
LEDs (Jameco has some almost exactly like the
originals). Painting is YOUR problem. If you need an IMSAI
front panel, you got a problem.<br><br>As an aside, I
have read that the name came about from the
destination in a Star Trek episode and one of the original
designers was a Trekie. My name came from the girl in
Forbidden Planet.<br><br>The insides are somewhat different
but still have an S-100 bus and the old brute force
transformer power supply. They may have an 8080, 8085 or Z80.
All memory (all two chips) resides on the CPU card.
This way I don't have memory accesses up and down that
horribly noisy unterminated bus, which was a major cause
of lockups on the original, and not just Altairs.
All cards are IO ported so IO data flows up and down
the bus but that is nowhere as critical.<br><br>I
built one front panel electronic board from the
original schematic which made me think that the designer
must have eaten too much solder. I realise that there
are far more ICs available now than then, but it
looks like he went the long way around. The others have
a software driven front panel - that is, the LEDs
are just connected to output ports and a software
routine in the monitor will emulate the hardware
functions of a panel.<br><br>In the main, I build and add
new hardware and program to it. Currently building a
large (for a 64k processor) ram drive from 512k static
ram chips. <br>Projects in design are a IDE
controller, new design hardware front panel, flat screen
monitor from a surplus 640x480 pull part, and an ethernet
card (this may be blue sky wishing). <br>Software
projects are a replacement for CP/M (fat, interwined, full
of support for ridiculous stuff like paper tape
readers and card punches) , a new structured assembler,
and most needed of all, a dynamic debug tool like
CPM's DDT. Actually, I have written a couple of these
but don't like either. I want one that will interface
with the front panel.<br><br>Anybody out there
actually using their Altair or is everybody just
collectors?<br><br>Ken Farmer<br>kenfarmer47@...

here is already a neat emulator for the 8800 on
the web; I'll try to get the <br>address for
you.<br><br>Also, the PROM board (I have a bare one) allows
you<br>to place a bootstrap loader, BASIC, DOS or
just<br>about anything in semipermanent EEPROM or
UVEPROM<br>memory, so that you can boot directly to a
terminal<br>like the SWTPC 6800 computer could, in its day.

i folks,<br><br>I plan to make an Altair-8800
emulator.<br>For now, this is just a project. It will be<br>mainly
DOS based because I am not very familiar<br>in
WinDoZe programing.<br><br>What I want is to mimick the
operation of the<br>computer, so it will be possible to run
the<br>original programs.<br><br>I also plan to add support for
some extra<br>peripherals, but I will need some
STRONG<br>docs: memory boards, I/O boards, VDU boards,<br>etc
etc...<br><br>If there are sufficient people interested<br>by this
(and even some people who would like<br>to contribute
to the development of the<br>project), please
contact me at the<br>following address:
winter@....<br><br>I am looking for an original Altair 8800,
but<br>since this machine tends to sell for buge<br>prices, I
prefer to wait a little bit. Else,<br>having a real
machine would have helped me a<br>lot in the development
of the emulator.<br><br>Note that if the project has
some good reasons<br>to start, I will set the starting
date in 1999,<br>as I am now finishing an MSc in
software design.<br><br>Anyone has a copy of Bill Gate's
BASIC and<br>Steve Dompier's AM-MUSIC programs
???<br><br>I also heared about a PROM board for the
Altair.<br>What does this add to the computer ?
The<br>possibility of having automatic boot-strap, or<br>just an
internal software to support a perphieral<br>or something
like that ???<br><br><br>All the best,<br><br>David
Winter

ob, did your museum manage to collect any<br>of
the software that went with the Altair<br>680b? Lost
a box in a move some years ago<br>and the old
papertape Basic was in it.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Mark

ongratulations on starting the Altair Computer
Club. There's an excellent article by John Dvorak on
the early history of the Altair in the November issue
of COMPUTER SHOPPER. <br><br>I have fond memories of
the Altair as I was a co-founder of MITS and wrote
the Altair's original operator's manual. My Altair
8800, which was one of five pre-production prototypes,
has been on display at the Smithsonian for some time
now.<br><br>Best of success with this new club. I hope it will
attract a good many of the early pioneers.<br><br>Forrest
M. Mims III

fter researching DejaNews, I have discovered the
following owners/users of Altair computers with listed
Serial Numbers. Evidently the K stands for "kit" and A
for "assembled"<br><br>1.<br><br>Email:
Bill_h@... <br>Name: n/a<br>Serial #:
221476K<br><br>2.<br>Email: Laurie@...<br>Name: Laurie
Boshell<br>Serial #: 223543K<br><br>3.<br>Email:
rfg@...<br>Name: Ramon Gandia<br>Serial #:
222004A<br><br>4.<br>Email: n/a<br>Name: Jesse Sackman<br>Serial #:
221089A<br><br>5.<br>Email: n/a<br>Name: Larry Groebe<br>Serial #:
220479K<br><br>6.<br>Email: n/a<br>Name: Craig Solomonson<br>Serial #:
220005A<br><br>7.<br>Email: rwood54741@...<br>Name: Robert
Wood<br>Serial #: 223652K<br><br>8.<br>Email:
jones@...<br>Name: Douglas W. Jones<br>Serial #: 220039K (not
verified)

ci.electronics.design <br>comp.programming <br>sci.electronics.components <br>co\
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have a small computer musuem (about 250
machines) in my office at System Source in Hunt Valley, MD.
People are welcome to visit during business hours, or
see us on the web at www.syssrc.com. The museum
conatins an Altair 8800 and a 680<br><br>Bob
Roswell<br>broswell@...

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