--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
>
> >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
> >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
> >local ecosystem, a study suggests.

I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...

I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
(anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf'  - great movie, great
book).

Toujours a vos ordres,
Margaret Hepburn

At 08:19 AM 2/1/2007, Margaret Hepburn wrote:
>--- Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
> >
> > >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
> > >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
> > >local ecosystem, a study suggests.
>
>I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
>catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...
>
>I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
>to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
>(anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf'  - great movie, great
>book).

AFAIK, relocation efforts tend to work with packs, so they don't give
the emigres a handicap right off by upsetting their social structure.

Saw the movie, haven't read the book, but one look at my household
name (see the email address) should show I'm not exactly neutral on
the subject of wolves ;-).

YiS,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Stackable" <malvoisine@...> wrote:
>
> --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@> wrote:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6310211.stm
> >
> > >Wild wolves 'good for ecosystems'
> > >Reintroducing wild wolves to the Scottish Highlands would help the
> > >local ecosystem, a study suggests.
>
> I wonder where they are going to get the wolves from? And who has to
> catch them and transport them? That sounds like a fun job...
>
> I know that most wolf species mate for life. I hope whomever they get
> to stock the wolves in Scotland doesn't break up family groups
> (anybody ever seen or read 'Never Cry Wolf'  - great movie, great
> book).
>
> Toujours a vos ordres,
> Margaret Hepburn
>


Well, with US wolf-restoration, they were brought in from Canada, but
I daresay the Baltic areas still have plenty.

The white-tailed or sea-eagle was reintroduced into Scotland starting
in 1975. I've been told* that when the chicks were brought over from
Norway, an RAF jet was sent for them to minimalize the length of the
trip.

Rowen Brithwallt

(also fond of wolves)


* By a Scottish falconer who was working with rehabilitating a
zoo-raised sea eagle, and who allowed me to put on a leather sleeve
and glove and hold the lure when the eagle was released from the other
side of a valley.  She landed on my left forearm, and her wings
outspanned my arms and wrapped all around my head and shoulders.
Wonderful!

R

Forgot to post this earlier.

In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/

http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

In Service to Many Dreams,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)

And Campbell died four years later of shame and alcohol, havng carried out the
orders of his superiors.

Shel

Quoting Muirghein <wolfestead@...>:

> Forgot to post this earlier.
>
> In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
> Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.
>
> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/
>
> http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe
>
> In Service to Many Dreams,
> Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
> Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
> (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
>   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
>
>


Shel

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
> In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
> Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.

Well! Happy Valentine's Day to you too! (grin). By the way, you bumped
that up a few years, I believe you had a typing slip there... that
should have been 1692. I wonder if that was on a Friday?

Cheers,
Margaret Hepburn

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Stackable" <malvoisine@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@> wrote:
> > In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain
Robert
> > Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> > slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.
>
> Well! Happy Valentine's Day to you too! (grin). By the way, you
bumped
> that up a few years, I believe you had a typing slip there... that
> should have been 1692. I wonder if that was on a Friday?

Never mind - perpetual calendar shows it was a Saturday. I was just
curious....*I* don't have triskadecaphobia....
Margaret

At 09:04 AM 2/14/2007, Margaret Hepburn wrote:
>--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
> > In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
> > Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> > slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.
>
>Well! Happy Valentine's Day to you too! (grin). By the way, you bumped
>that up a few years, I believe you had a typing slip there... that
>should have been 1692. I wonder if that was on a Friday?

Bad typist -- musta been dain bread from catching up on four days
worth of being offline. Though how I turned 1692 into 1619... ;-). I
got the 315 right, though :-).

YiS,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)

I believe Robert Campbell is buried in Glen Lyon near
where the old Yew Tree grows
Archie
--- Shelton Browder <ebrowder@...> wrote:

> And Campbell died four years later of shame and
> alcohol, havng carried out the
> orders of his superiors.
>
> Shel
>
> Quoting Muirghein <wolfestead@...>:
>
> > Forgot to post this earlier.
> >
> > In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led
> by Captain Robert
> > Campbell violated the hospitality of the
> MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> > slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men,
> women and children.
> >
> > http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/
> >
> >
> http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe
> >
> > In Service to Many Dreams,
> > Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
> > Dreiburgen Web Minister
> http://www.dreiburgen.org
> > (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
> >   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
> >
> >
>
>
> Shel
>




___________________________________________________________
All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard
protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

It's just sad that the Scots couldna' banned together a little better than the
(PTOOO!) English did. History wouda' been a whole lot more interestin'. Cheers
all!

Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:          Forgot to post this
earlier.

In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/

http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

In Service to Many Dreams,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)






     Tinnian "Cutter" de La Hay

   [Insert witty intellectual quote here]

   "Eviscerate the Proletariat!"




---------------------------------
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Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
>
> Forgot to post this earlier.
>
> In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
> Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.
>
> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/
>
> http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe
>
> In Service to Many Dreams,
> Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
> Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
> (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
>   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
>
  On behalf of my Campbell Clansmen we're really sorry about that.

I remember that the person really responsible for the incident was the Earl of
Stair, Secretary of State for Scotland. Whatever was his fate?
   Scott

adavidwatson <adavidwatson@...> wrote:
           --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Muirghein <wolfestead@...> wrote:
>
> Forgot to post this earlier.
>
> In the early morning hours of 13 Feb 1619, men led by Captain Robert
> Campbell violated the hospitality of the MacDonalds of Glencoe by
> slaying (or causing to die of exposure) 78 men, women and children.
>
> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/glencoe/
>
> http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/glencoe.htm
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe
>
> In Service to Many Dreams,
> Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach /|\
> Dreiburgen Web Minister http://www.dreiburgen.org
> (any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
> opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)
>
On behalf of my Campbell Clansmen we're really sorry about that.






---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
  Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Scott Galloway <kiapswg@...> wrote:
>
> I remember that the person really responsible for the incident was
the Earl of Stair, Secretary of State for Scotland. Whatever was his
fate?
>   Scott

Wiki and a couple of other sites say he received a mild reprimand and
that was all. He died in 1707.
Margaret Hepburn

I am not sure how much your group can help me, but I am hoping for some
help with period Scottish recipes. I am serving as Feast Steward this
year for Autumn Rose XIII in the Shire of Rokeclif, Kingdom of
Northshield, and one of the courses for this feast will be Scottish. You
can see more about this feast at:

http://periodfood.blogspot.com/2007/01/feast-of-knowne-world.html

The first course is Scottish, and I am hoping to include haggis, a
vegetable dish, Scottish bread and a Scottish beverage (non-alcoholic)
for this course. I will also need some help with garb research for my
page and his/her presentation. I already have a piper who will perform
as well.

So, any information on sources for Scottish recipes, garb, behavior
would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

--
Lord Vitaliano Vincenzi
aka Shane Lambert
http://www.periodfood.blogspot.com

Vitaliano Vincenzi wrote:

>I am not sure how much your group can help me, but I am hoping for some
>help with period Scottish recipes. I am serving as Feast Steward this
>year for Autumn Rose XIII in the Shire of Rokeclif, Kingdom of
>Northshield, and one of the courses for this feast will be Scottish. You
>can see more about this feast at:
>
>http://periodfood.blogspot.com/2007/01/feast-of-knowne-world.html
>
>The first course is Scottish, and I am hoping to include haggis, a
>vegetable dish, Scottish bread and a Scottish beverage (non-alcoholic)
>for this course. I will also need some help with garb research for my
>page and his/her presentation. I already have a piper who will perform
>as well.
>
>So, any information on sources for Scottish recipes, garb, behavior
>would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
>
~Have you checked out, "The Scots Kitchen," by F. Marian McNeill?  An
on-line source for traditional Scottish recipes is:
http://www.rampantscotland.com/recipes/blrecipe_index.htm

     Hope this helps.

Diana Cosby
www.dianacosby.com
Zebra/November 07/His Captive
Zebra/November 08/Title TBA

At 12:40 PM 2/21/2007, Diana Cosby wrote:
>An on-line source for traditional Scottish recipes is:
>http://www.rampantscotland.com/recipes/blrecipe_index.htm

Is there any way to tell which of these are "traditional" recipes are
period and which are later, like the 18th-19th centuries?

For example, when did potatoes (Arran Potato Salad) first make it to
Scotland? I doubt in period:

http://www.indepthinfo.com/potato/history.shtml
>Europe would wait until the 1780's before the potato gained
>prominence anywhere. About 1780 the people of Ireland adopted the
>rugged food crop.

YiS,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)

Muirghein wrote:

>At 12:40 PM 2/21/2007, Diana Cosby wrote:
>
>
>>An on-line source for traditional Scottish recipes is:
>>http://www.rampantscotland.com/recipes/blrecipe_index.htm
>>
>>
>
>Is there any way to tell which of these are "traditional" recipes are
>period and which are later, like the 18th-19th centuries?
>
>
~As far as the link for traditional Scottish recipes, I offered them as
I was unsure if you were open to any era.  As far as period correct
meals, if you check The Scots Kitchen by F. Marian McNeill, some dates
are given along with the recipe as well as lore.  I'll be interested to
see what others offer.  Hope this helps.
Diana

www.dianacosby.com
Zebra/November 07/His Captive
Zebra/November 08/Title TBA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Vitaliano Vincenzi <vitaliano@...>
wrote:
>
> I am not sure how much your group can help me, but I am hoping for
some
> help with period Scottish recipes. I am serving as Feast Steward
this
> year for Autumn Rose XIII in the Shire of Rokeclif, Kingdom of
> Northshield, and one of the courses for this feast will be
Scottish. You
> can see more about this feast at:
>
> http://periodfood.blogspot.com/2007/01/feast-of-knowne-world.html
>
> The first course is Scottish, and I am hoping to include haggis, a
> vegetable dish, Scottish bread and a Scottish beverage (non-
alcoholic)
> for this course. I will also need some help with garb research for
my
> page and his/her presentation. I already have a piper who will
perform
> as well.

Regrettably, the earliest known Scottish written recipes are very
late 17th century. It's just one of those 'holes' in the Scottish
written records. I have never found a good answer for why there were
no Scottish cookery books printed during the period. Having said
that - Haggis was certainly period.

I would suggest any good 'peasant' oat bread recipe for the Scottish
bread. The Scottish preference for oats, which the 'civilized' world
considered fit only for livestock, was commented upon in the 16th
century. I've not found any particular Scottish 'beverages' that are
non-alcoholic. (There is a sort of gruel made of water and oats that
travellers were said to drink, but I doubt it's what you want for a
feast). Although, in point of fact, this was true at the time for the
rest of the British Isles. Pretty much everyone consumed ale or beer,
(with 'small' beer and ale being an everyday drink), water or wine.

The Scots Kitchen is probably the best overall reference for Scottish
recipes, but again, you must realize these are all post period
recipes for period things. There are currently no written Scottish
recipes prior to about 1680 or so. But, Ms. McNeil does give a lot of
references within the text with period quotes referring to certain
foods.

The kitchen and buttery accounts of the Earl of Angus from five
months in 1608 are the most complete picture, I think. There are
references to royal and ecclesiastical food purchases and feast
throughout the 16th century, but the Earl's record is one of food
purchased for his household in Glasgow and the Canongate. Oat bread
is definitely listed, it is the cheapest sort of bread purchased, so
I would rate it a 'common' sort of bread and representative of Scots
fare in the way you are looking for.

Again, ale was the beverage of choice, being considered fine for
breakfast.  Also listed in the accounts are purchases of an array of
wines (French,Canary, Spanish, Malaga and Sack were all purchased).
Normally the family's ale would have been made by themselves, but
they were living in lodgings, so all the ale was purchased. But the
family's prodigious wine consumption was a mark of their rank and
what they could afford.

There were not a lot of fresh vegetable dishes served in Scotland in
period. The only vegetables purchased by the Earl's family were
cabbages and parsley in June, carrots in September and cabbages in
October. And most of these vegetables were mean for the broth. Herbs
were the only 'green' things that were regularly purchased.

I would suggest instead a Cock a Leekie soup made with vegetable
broth. It is known in period and will include a vegetable broth as
well as leeks.

> So, any information on sources for Scottish recipes, garb, behavior
> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Most of the food evidence is late period, so there's no question on
the dates for that, but as for the rest of your needs, it would be
excellent if you could narrow down your time period.

Toujours a vos ordres,
Margaret Hepburn

As an addendum, I had a brief look through the online Dictionary of the
Scots language looking for beverages. The only other thing I found was
one mention of cider from 1548 (and it would most likely be alcoholic).
There is a mention of 'cannell-water' in the 1630's which is cinnamon
water, but it was a medicinal drink.
Margaret Hepburn

Is this first course to be simple or grand? For a simple bread, there's
oatcakes, ground oats, salt, water, and perhaps an egg mixed together and baked
on a griddle. After cooking the haggis, you could spread it on the oatcakes.
Non-alcoholic beverages would be water, either spring or boiled, or milk. I have
a few recipes for wild game, if you wish to de-modernize them. Stewed meat and
vegetables is the simplest preparation. Many of the historical recipes come from
the nobility and are not usually what the poor folks ate, except for haggis and
oatcakes.
   Scott

Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
           As an addendum, I had a brief look through the online Dictionary of
the
Scots language looking for beverages. The only other thing I found was
one mention of cider from 1548 (and it would most likely be alcoholic).
There is a mention of 'cannell-water' in the 1630's which is cinnamon
water, but it was a medicinal drink.
Margaret Hepburn






---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This first course is a light course, so your idea of haggis spread on
oatcakes could be good. I would love to make this a grand course, but I
just don't know how many people will want to eat Haggis once they know
what is in it, so making simple break (oatcakes) and offering small
amounts of Haggis for those daring soles is most likely the idea.

Darn drunken Scots. Didn't they drink anything without alcohol? Oh yeah,
very few people in period did. :)

Thank you. If you have a recipe for Oatcakes I would love to see it as I
have LOTS of oats around here to play with. :)

Scott Galloway wrote:
> Is this first course to be simple or grand? For a simple bread, there's
oatcakes, ground oats, salt, water, and perhaps an egg mixed together and baked
on a griddle. After cooking the haggis, you could spread it on the oatcakes.
Non-alcoholic beverages would be water, either spring or boiled, or milk. I have
a few recipes for wild game, if you wish to de-modernize them. Stewed meat and
vegetables is the simplest preparation. Many of the historical recipes come from
the nobility and are not usually what the poor folks ate, except for haggis and
oatcakes.
>   Scott
>
> Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
>           As an addendum, I had a brief look through the online Dictionary of
the
> Scots language looking for beverages. The only other thing I found was
> one mention of cider from 1548 (and it would most likely be alcoholic).
> There is a mention of 'cannell-water' in the 1630's which is cinnamon
> water, but it was a medicinal drink.
> Margaret Hepburn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
> Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.
> Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links
>
>
>

--
Lord Vitaliano Vincenzi
aka Shane Lambert
http://www.periodfood.blogspot.com

Thank you for so much wonderful information. I am planning to make this
course representative of the late 15th and early 16th centuries. I would
love to have some traditional Scottish Ale brewed and serve it at feast
- in fact, I know someone who does it. However, even if I WERE allowed
to do it, the event grounds would require us to have a Temporary Liquor
license for the weekend, and being Labor Day weekend and since the
county limits the number available, we are not able to get one. Looks
like water and maybe milk are the choices for beverages.

I do plan to include Haggis in this course, but it will be a light
course. Someone in another list suggested making Oat cakes and either
spreading the haggis on those, or offering it as a "spread" for those
that want to try it. Anyone have a good recipe for these Oat Cakes I
hear mentioned all the time?

Several people have suggested the Scot's Kitchen and I am in the process
of acquiring a copy. The soup you mentioned sounds good too and may
become a part of this course.

Thank you.

Julie Stackable wrote:

> Regrettably, the earliest known Scottish written recipes are very
> late 17th century. It's just one of those 'holes' in the Scottish
> written records. I have never found a good answer for why there were
> no Scottish cookery books printed during the period. Having said
> that - Haggis was certainly period.
>
> I would suggest any good 'peasant' oat bread recipe for the Scottish
> bread. The Scottish preference for oats, which the 'civilized' world
> considered fit only for livestock, was commented upon in the 16th
> century. I've not found any particular Scottish 'beverages' that are
> non-alcoholic. (There is a sort of gruel made of water and oats that
> travellers were said to drink, but I doubt it's what you want for a
> feast). Although, in point of fact, this was true at the time for the
> rest of the British Isles. Pretty much everyone consumed ale or beer,
> (with 'small' beer and ale being an everyday drink), water or wine.
>
> The Scots Kitchen is probably the best overall reference for Scottish
> recipes, but again, you must realize these are all post period
> recipes for period things. There are currently no written Scottish
> recipes prior to about 1680 or so. But, Ms. McNeil does give a lot of
> references within the text with period quotes referring to certain
> foods.
>
> The kitchen and buttery accounts of the Earl of Angus from five
> months in 1608 are the most complete picture, I think. There are
> references to royal and ecclesiastical food purchases and feast
> throughout the 16th century, but the Earl's record is one of food
> purchased for his household in Glasgow and the Canongate. Oat bread
> is definitely listed, it is the cheapest sort of bread purchased, so
> I would rate it a 'common' sort of bread and representative of Scots
> fare in the way you are looking for.
>
> Again, ale was the beverage of choice, being considered fine for
> breakfast.  Also listed in the accounts are purchases of an array of
> wines (French,Canary, Spanish, Malaga and Sack were all purchased).
> Normally the family's ale would have been made by themselves, but
> they were living in lodgings, so all the ale was purchased. But the
> family's prodigious wine consumption was a mark of their rank and
> what they could afford.
>
> There were not a lot of fresh vegetable dishes served in Scotland in
> period. The only vegetables purchased by the Earl's family were
> cabbages and parsley in June, carrots in September and cabbages in
> October. And most of these vegetables were mean for the broth. Herbs
> were the only 'green' things that were regularly purchased.
>
> I would suggest instead a Cock a Leekie soup made with vegetable
> broth. It is known in period and will include a vegetable broth as
> well as leeks.
>
>> So, any information on sources for Scottish recipes, garb, behavior
>> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Most of the food evidence is late period, so there's no question on
> the dates for that, but as for the rest of your needs, it would be
> excellent if you could narrow down your time period.

--
Lord Vitaliano Vincenzi
aka Shane Lambert
http://www.periodfood.blogspot.com

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, Vitaliano Vincenzi <vitaliano@...> wrote:
> I would love to have some traditional Scottish Ale brewed and serve
it at feast
> - in fact, I know someone who does it. However, even if I WERE allowed
> to do it, the event grounds would require us to have a Temporary Liquor
> license for the weekend, and being Labor Day weekend and since the
> county limits the number available, we are not able to get one. Looks
> like water and maybe milk are the choices for beverages.
> <snip>


If it is within the feast budget, and you would like a more
interesting option, you might consider serving some of the
non-alcohalic beer-type beverages available. (But it's always good to
have plenty of water as well as anything else.)

regards,

Rowen Brithwallt

In a message dated 2/28/2007 3:56:02 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
rowengr@... writes:

Looks
> like water and maybe milk are the choices for  beverages.



ok, it might be England instead of Scotland, but wasn't cider a popular
drink?  Of course theirs would have been hard cider, but you could do  regular
cider.

Heleyne
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 5:29 PM +0000 2/22/07, Julie Stackable wrote:
>Regrettably, the earliest known Scottish written recipes are very
>late 17th century. It's just one of those 'holes' in the Scottish
>written records. I have never found a good answer for why there were
>no Scottish cookery books printed during the period. Having said
>that - Haggis was certainly period.

But not particularly associated with Scotland in period, to best of
my knowledge. (They did have haggis, but it wasn't yet considered
particularly Scottish -- and I don't think there is any reason to
think it must have been Scottish in origin. Search DSL-DOST headwords
for haggis for the two known quotes mentioning it --
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/)

However, there is a period recipe (transcription of original text)
from "Two fifteenth-century cookery-books : Harleian MS. 279 (ab
1430), & Harl. MS. 4016 (ab. 1450), with extracts from Ashmole MS.
1439, Laud MS. 553, & Douce MS. 55 " available online specifically at

<http://www.hti.umich.edu:80/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=cme;cc=cme;type=simple;rgn=di\
v2;q1=hag%2A;view=text;subview=detail;sort=occur;idno=CookBk;node=CookBk%3A6.3#h\
l1>

Note this is from an English cookbook, not a Scottish one.

BTW, similarly bagpipes were not particularly associated with
Scotland in period -- and in fact appear to have arrived in Scotland
from England in the late medieval era (first in Lowland Scotland,
then the Highlands). If I recall correctly, the earliest references
to bagpipes in Scotland are payments to English bagpipers.

>I would suggest any good 'peasant' oat bread recipe for the Scottish
>bread. The Scottish preference for oats, which the 'civilized' world
>considered fit only for livestock, was commented upon in the 16th
>century.

I wouldn't call this so much a "preference" as an economic thing.
Scots who could afford it ate white (wheat flour) bread. The poor ate
(oat) "cakes". (Which weren't like what we would call a cake -- they
were probably quite similar to modern oatcakes, and so basically a
water and oats cracker-like thing.)

For some period quotes about oat cakes, search DSL-DOST headwords for cake.

As for serving the haggis spread on oatcakes, I don't particularly
recommend it unless you've got some period evidence that this is how
these foods were eaten in period somewhere in Europe (Scotland or
elsewhere). How food is mixed together, combined, served, etc.
changed just as much by culture and time period as anything else, and
while to us moderns putting haggis on oatcakes sounds quite obvious,
it may not have done so to period Scots (or any other Europeans).

If you're worried people won't like the haggis (and if they like hot
dogs or sausages of any kind, or pate, they should like haggis --
people think they don't like it only because everyone tells them they
shouldn't like it, but all haggis is is a kind of sausage served
without the skin) then just serve very small amounts.

>The kitchen and buttery accounts of the Earl of Angus from five
>months in 1608 are the most complete picture, I think. There are
>references to royal and ecclesiastical food purchases and feast
>throughout the 16th century, but the Earl's record is one of food
>purchased for his household in Glasgow and the Canongate. Oat bread
>is definitely listed, it is the cheapest sort of bread purchased, so
>I would rate it a 'common' sort of bread and representative of Scots
>fare in the way you are looking for.

Well, common in the sense of eaten by the poorer people (and recall
the SCA assumes everyone is a noble unless otherwise specified ;-)

>Again, ale was the beverage of choice, being considered fine for
>breakfast.  Also listed in the accounts are purchases of an array of
>wines (French,Canary, Spanish, Malaga and Sack were all purchased).
>Normally the family's ale would have been made by themselves, but
>they were living in lodgings, so all the ale was purchased. But the
>family's prodigious wine consumption was a mark of their rank and
>what they could afford.

You mean this family's -- the Earl of Angus's? Because it was very
common for people to buy ale, even if they also made their own.

>There were not a lot of fresh vegetable dishes served in Scotland in
>period. The only vegetables purchased by the Earl's family were
>cabbages and parsley in June, carrots in September and cabbages in
>October. And most of these vegetables were mean for the broth. Herbs
>were the only 'green' things that were regularly purchased.

Kale is often mentioned in Aberdeen. And keep in mind that purchases
do not tell the whole story with regard to food. Even in towns people
had gardens in their back yards, where vegetables (like kale, etc.)
were typically grown.

Anyway, for resources on Scottish things in general, including
clothing, see my website (Medieval Scotland) at
http://MedievalScotland.org/ (BTW, note that I believe everything
discussed so far for food is based on Lowland or English evidence,
not Gaelic or Highland.)

Sharon, ska Affrick nyn Ken3e
--
Sharon Krossa, PhD  -  skrossa-ml@...
Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
     Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
      Shopping Online? Help support! - http://MedievalScotland.org/patron/
The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
     The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon L. Krossa" <skrossa-ml@...>
wrote:
> >Again, ale was the beverage of choice, being considered fine for
> >breakfast.  Also listed in the accounts are purchases of an array
of
> >wines (French,Canary, Spanish, Malaga and Sack were all purchased).
> >Normally the family's ale would have been made by themselves, but
> >they were living in lodgings, so all the ale was purchased. But the
> >family's prodigious wine consumption was a mark of their rank and
> >what they could afford.
>
> You mean this family's -- the Earl of Angus's? Because it was very
> common for people to buy ale, even if they also made their own.

Yes, I was specifically referring to the Earl's family. They were
living in cramped quarters. The Earl had been in a lot of legal
trouble and things were not going so well. For quite a bit of the
time, it doesn't look like a lot of his normal household was with
him, including his wife. (there is an excellent discussion of his
situation in the 'Laird's Kitchen', along with the accounts)

> >There were not a lot of fresh vegetable dishes served in Scotland
in
> >period. The only vegetables purchased by the Earl's family were
> >cabbages and parsley in June, carrots in September and cabbages in
> >October. And most of these vegetables were mean for the broth.
Herbs
> >were the only 'green' things that were regularly purchased.
>
> Kale is often mentioned in Aberdeen. And keep in mind that
purchases
> do not tell the whole story with regard to food. Even in towns
people
> had gardens in their back yards, where vegetables (like kale, etc.)
> were typically grown.

Again, these were transitory rented lodgings, so it is doubtful they
had their own kaleyard. However, it is very possible that the
lodgings had their own kaleyard, but mention was not made in the
accounts. If it wasn't clear in the paragraph, again, I was
specifically referring to the Earl's family, since there was a
written record, not discussing Scots as a whole.

> Anyway, for resources on Scottish things in general, including
> clothing, see my website (Medieval Scotland) at
> http://MedievalScotland.org/ (BTW, note that I believe everything
> discussed so far for food is based on Lowland or English evidence,
> not Gaelic or Highland.)

Is there any anecdotal evidence for Scottish Gaelic or Highland food
(obviously they ate something, I just mean written records)? I'm
thinking we're a go for cattle (grin), and I know I've seen
references to the use of seaweed in coastal areas, but it's not
really my area of research....

By the way, there used to be a really great website on the history of
Scottish cheese, which has sadly disappeared!

Toujours a vos ordres,
Margaret Hepburn

Greetings!

My persona is early 14th century Scottish Gaelic.  I'm starting to work on
my armor, and want to get as close to what my persona would use as possible.
Okay, I know that isn't compatible with SCA armoring standards, but I gotta
try.  I understand that I would wear a padded aketon, and a pot helm.  I'm
ordering a helm that is a dome top with sides riveted on, to meet armoring
standards.  Just a pretty standard helm, really.  I've read also that my
persona would have fought with a poleaxe (which happens to be my favorite
weapon) or a glaive.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Doireann

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Carr Zupanic"
<bear_necessities@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings!
>
> My persona is early 14th century Scottish Gaelic.  I'm starting to
work on
> my armor, and want to get as close to what my persona would use as
possible.
> Okay, I know that isn't compatible with SCA armoring standards, but
I gotta
> try.  I understand that I would wear a padded aketon, and a pot
helm.  I'm
> ordering a helm that is a dome top with sides riveted on, to meet
armoring
> standards.  Just a pretty standard helm, really.  I've read also
that my
> persona would have fought with a poleaxe (which happens to be my
favorite
> weapon) or a glaive.
>
> Any advice would be very welcome.
>
> Doireann

Dear Doireann,
You don't really specify which thing you are worried won't meet SCA
armoring standards. Are you talking about the aketon or the pot helm?

Are you looking for armor advice or clothing or persona? The list has
been pretty darn quiet lately, but I always suggest to be as specific
as you can when asking for help . . . .

So what reading are you doing that's telling you you should fight
with a poleaxe or glaive (just curiosity - not argument) - do you
mean as a female fighter, as a Scot or what?

Curious,
Margaret Hepburn

Margaret wrote:
You don't really specify which thing you are worried won't meet SCA
armoring standards. Are you talking about the aketon or the pot helm?

***  Sorry, I'll try that again!

***  The question of what armor a Highlander would wear was asked on the
Albanach list long ago (I *think* it was the Albanach list!) - I don't
remember details, such as time period, sorry, but I think it was about the
same period as my persona (14th century) because the answer sort of stuck in
my head.  The answer was that they didn't wear armor other than an aketon
and a pot helm.  To meet armoring standards, I'd have to wear more than just
the aketon and pot helm of course, so I'm looking for advice on what kind of
armor to wear that wouldn't put me too too far out of persona.   For
instance, when they did start wearing hard body armor in the Highlands (if
ever), what kind did they wear?

Are you looking for armor advice or clothing or persona? The list has
been pretty darn quiet lately, but I always suggest to be as specific
as you can when asking for help . . . .

***  Definitely armor advice for my persona.

So what reading are you doing that's telling you you should fight
with a poleaxe or glaive (just curiosity - not argument) - do you
mean as a female fighter, as a Scot or what?

***  I took a poleaxe class and really enjoyed it.  The teacher did tell us
that it is a really good weapon for a woman.  I decided then that, once I
start fighting, I'd like to fight with a poleaxe.  Then, last night I was
visiting the website of a Scottish re-enactment group -
http://www.gaddgedlar.com/ - where they stated that a Highland Cateran would
use the following weapons: Spears, Glaives, Hand-axes, Bows, Daggers.  I
either misread something or read about poleaxes somewhere else in my
internet travels.  But, I was happy to read that, as a Highland Scottish
persona, I would fight with a polearm of some type.  So, I could fight with
my weapon of choice without taking too much liberty with my persona.

***  This particular re-enactment group requests participants to wear their
extra armor beneath the aketon, which I suppose is an option for me, but I'd
like to know what other options there might be.

***  Did I do better this time? <G>

Doireann

***  Did I

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Carr Zupanic"
<bear_necessities@...> wrote:
>
> ***  The question of what armor a Highlander would wear was asked
on the
> Albanach list long ago (I *think* it was the Albanach list!) - I
don't
> remember details, such as time period, sorry, but I think it was
about the
> same period as my persona (14th century) because the answer sort of
stuck in
> my head.  The answer was that they didn't wear armor other than an
aketon
> and a pot helm.  To meet armoring standards, I'd have to wear more
than just
> the aketon and pot helm of course, so I'm looking for advice on
what kind of
> armor to wear that wouldn't put me too too far out of persona.
For
> instance, when they did start wearing hard body armor in the
Highlands (if
> ever), what kind did they wear?

Good morning! You can do what a lot of SCA fighters do for personas
that normally wouldn't have worn a lot of body armor - use the aketon
to cover up whatever you are wearing. My husband did that for a lot
of years - especially when he still had the Kydex (sp?) stuff. He had
a heavy padded gambeson that went over the non-period looking stuff.

I will have to go back through some of my resources to answer this
more authoritatively, but if I am remembering correctly, Highlanders
did not wear much in the way of hard armor. They were rarely involved
in the type of 'soldier' warfare that necessitated it. Other
Highlanders weren't hauling around cannon and guns when they were
fighting, so there wasn't as much need for it. I've got a couple of
books on Scottish warfare, let me look through & see if I can find
any decent resources to better answer your question, but it sounds as
if you are going in the right direction to me. Most of the graveslabs
from the era just show the aketon, a helm and sword.

> ***  Definitely armor advice for my persona.

Hopefully someone more knowledgable than I on this era will chime in.
We do 1570's lowlands, so it's a completely different animal from
what you are looking at.

> ***  I took a poleaxe class and really enjoyed it.  The teacher did
tell us
> that it is a really good weapon for a woman.  I decided then that,
once I
> start fighting, I'd like to fight with a poleaxe.  Then, last night
I was
> visiting the website of a Scottish re-enactment group -
> http://www.gaddgedlar.com/ - where they stated that a Highland
Cateran would
> use the following weapons: Spears, Glaives, Hand-axes, Bows,
Daggers.  I
> either misread something or read about poleaxes somewhere else in
my
> internet travels.  But, I was happy to read that, as a Highland
Scottish
> persona, I would fight with a polearm of some type.  So, I could
fight with
> my weapon of choice without taking too much liberty with my persona.
>

I will only say use Gaddgedlar with caution. They've got good
information mixed in with not so good information and for some
reason, don't like to provide any resources for things they've said
on their list. I've emailed repeatedly asking for sources. They've
got some things on there that I think would be cool to do, but I am
unsure what documentation they are using for some things.

> ***  This particular re-enactment group requests participants to
wear their
> extra armor beneath the aketon, which I suppose is an option for
me, but I'd
> like to know what other options there might be.

Again, I will look at what I've got & see if I have any better
resources for you other than 'put it under your aketon'.

> ***  Did I do better this time? <G>

Yup and good luck. I'm always all for helping someone be more
authentic. Scotland can be a frustrating persona if you are trying to
do it right. I've run into a lot of brick walls in the last few years
with clothing and food, and it can be a slow slog. And when I go to
an event in what I think are the most period clothes I can put
together - handsewn linen and wool and will *still* get asked why I'm
not wearing plaid.....

More soon,
Margaret