I've a question about a German woodcut showing four soldiers in
tartan, depicted in Thirty Ears War in Stettin. They are part of
Scottish Mackay's regiment but they are described like "Irrlander"
or "Ersche", Irish. I know that English or Lowlander speakers had
called Scottish Gaelic as "Irish language" or "Erse". It is possible
that this "Irrlander" define this four soldiers as gaelic speakers?

Hello to all. My name is Simone and i'm interested about history of
gaelic scotland, with a special regard about clann's history and
language. I'm italian and in Italy there are few publications about
Scottish history in particular. Sorry at all for my english.
Simone

Definetly, and in fact, there were more Scottish mercenaries and
merchants along the Baltic seaboard than Irish. Some of them even had
famous descendants, such as the Russian poet Lermontov.
> I've a question about a German woodcut showing four soldiers in
> tartan, depicted in Thirty Ears War in Stettin. They are part of
> Scottish Mackay's regiment but they are described like "Irrlander"
> or "Ersche", Irish. I know that English or Lowlander speakers had
> called Scottish Gaelic as "Irish language" or "Erse". It is possible
> that this "Irrlander" define this four soldiers as gaelic speakers?

Dear Group,

I would like to introduce a new and exciting group dedicated to
British history: The Sceptred Isles. The group was founded on the
9th September 2005, by myself. The group has only just been created,
and needs members for some interesting debates and discussions. The
group focuses predominantly on Medieval British history, but covers
a whole range of topics from Anglo-Saxon England, through the
Conquest and the Angevin kings, from the Refomation right up to the
19th and 20th centuries. All are welcome, whether you are just
casually interested or an expert in the field, wherever you are in
the world.

The group is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sceptredisles

I hope you can join our community!

Many thanks
Jordan Perry
Owner of the Sceptred Isles



Thanks to the Owner of this group for letting me post this message.

It is my understanding  that until the 16th century, the Gaelic peoples of the
West Highlands and Islands identified culturaly with the Irish and the language
was sstill basically the same.  Certainly their stories indicate that.  There
seems to be no indication of cultural identity with the non Gaelic speaking
parts of Scotland.

Shel


Quoting Allen Hansen <kapudanpasha@...>:

> Definetly, and in fact, there were more Scottish mercenaries and
> merchants along the Baltic seaboard than Irish. Some of them even had
> famous descendants, such as the Russian poet Lermontov.
> > I've a question about a German woodcut showing four soldiers in
> > tartan, depicted in Thirty Ears War in Stettin. They are part of
> > Scottish Mackay's regiment but they are described like "Irrlander"
> > or "Ersche", Irish. I know that English or Lowlander speakers had
> > called Scottish Gaelic as "Irish language" or "Erse". It is possible
> > that this "Irrlander" define this four soldiers as gaelic speakers?
>
>
>
>
>
> This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
> Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I've read on Mrs Krossa's "Medieval Scotland" that the citizenship of
town and burghs in Scotland, whatever in Gaelic speaking domaine, was
of Inglish or Lowlander culture and language and burghs had their own
ruling sistem. But what kind of relationships there was beetwen Clan
chiefs, Clan sistem and burgh's citizenship in Scotland until XVII°
sec.?

That's kind of a complicated question to answer. If you are asking
about Lowland Clans, there weren't any, per se. There were large
families, with close kinship ties, but nothing like the Gaelic Clan
system. Unless a Clan member relocated to the Lowlands to live, then I
would imagine their relationship with the citizenship of towns &
burghs would be pretty much what you would expect. They were different
cultures, in some cases speaking a completely different language, but
were still from the same country.  Highlanders did a lot of trade
through the Lowlands. The Lowlands had very little true industry, but
there was even less in the Highlands and they would have a need to
trade for things that couldn't be manufactured or gotten further
north. The Highlanders would bring their cattle, sheep and sheep goods
(skins & wools) down to the towns for trade & export.

Post 1560, you have a little more stress as the Lowlands slowly
converted to Protestantism and the Highlands stayed mainly Catholic,
well into the 18th century (this is a BROAD generalization). You don't
have what I would consider real political strife between north and
south until the 18th century with the Jacobite question.

I think there is some perceived prejudice on both sides in the 16th
centuries - with Lowlands thinking the Highlanders were primitive,
wild, what have you & with Highlanders thinking the Lowlands were
too 'English', but again, that's a broad generalization.

You might have better luck with a more specific question, i.e. if you
mean religion, or trade or intermarriage or whatever.

Cheers,
Margaret Hepburn

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "simoneboscolo" <simoneboscolo@y...>
wrote:
> I've read on Mrs Krossa's "Medieval Scotland" that the citizenship
of
> town and burghs in Scotland, whatever in Gaelic speaking domaine,
was
> of Inglish or Lowlander culture and language and burghs had their
own
> ruling sistem. But what kind of relationships there was beetwen Clan
> chiefs, Clan sistem and burgh's citizenship in Scotland until XVII°
> sec.?

Thank you for the answer. My question was about relationship between
Gaelic Highland Clans and burghs population. For example:the burgh
of Cromarty was in XVI° sec. in the lands of Clan Mackenzie.
Undoubtely Cromarty was also inhabitated by some Mackenzie, some
Munro, some Ross. But this Mackenzie, or Munro, or Ross, born in the
burgh of Cromarty was loyal to his original clan (war, fiery cross,
childhood from his chief family, exc.) or culturally was a world
apart.
Sorry for my english but write in a foreign language is more
difficult than speak or read it to me.
Simone.

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret
Hepburn" <malvoisine@y...> wrote:
> That's kind of a complicated question to answer. If you are asking
> about Lowland Clans, there weren't any, per se. There were large
> families, with close kinship ties, but nothing like the Gaelic
Clan
> system. Unless a Clan member relocated to the Lowlands to live,
then I
> would imagine their relationship with the citizenship of towns &
> burghs would be pretty much what you would expect. They were
different
> cultures, in some cases speaking a completely different language,
but
> were still from the same country.  Highlanders did a lot of trade
> through the Lowlands. The Lowlands had very little true industry,
but
> there was even less in the Highlands and they would have a need to
> trade for things that couldn't be manufactured or gotten further
> north. The Highlanders would bring their cattle, sheep and sheep
goods
> (skins & wools) down to the towns for trade & export.
>
> Post 1560, you have a little more stress as the Lowlands slowly
> converted to Protestantism and the Highlands stayed mainly
Catholic,
> well into the 18th century (this is a BROAD generalization). You
don't
> have what I would consider real political strife between north and
> south until the 18th century with the Jacobite question.
>
> I think there is some perceived prejudice on both sides in the
16th
> centuries - with Lowlands thinking the Highlanders were primitive,
> wild, what have you & with Highlanders thinking the Lowlands were
> too 'English', but again, that's a broad generalization.
>
> You might have better luck with a more specific question, i.e. if
you
> mean religion, or trade or intermarriage or whatever.
>
> Cheers,
> Margaret Hepburn
>
> --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "simoneboscolo"
<simoneboscolo@y...>
> wrote:
> > I've read on Mrs Krossa's "Medieval Scotland" that the
citizenship
> of
> > town and burghs in Scotland, whatever in Gaelic speaking
domaine,
> was
> > of Inglish or Lowlander culture and language and burghs had
their
> own
> > ruling sistem. But what kind of relationships there was beetwen
Clan
> > chiefs, Clan sistem and burgh's citizenship in Scotland until
XVII°
> > sec.?

Hello, I am try to do some research on living space that us by the
Scots during wartime? Does anyone know a good book or site that talk
about and or show what types of tent they use or what type of living
space did they use?

I've been researching tents for the past few months & haven't found
any images of specifically Scottish tents except for one & it's not a
great one. It is Holinshed's 1573 map of Edinburgh showing the siege
of Edinburgh. There are two encampments shown with tents. Since the
troops besieging Edinburgh were English and Scottish, there is no way
to know for sure if the tents shown were English or Scottish.
Additionally, Holinshed was not a native Scot and I do not know if he
was actually a witness to the siege & there is no way to know if he
put tents on the map because he thought logically there should be
some. Most likely, he would have put a representation of a tent that
was familiar to him.

There are plenty of period references to tents if you go through the
online Dictionary of Scottish language - there are a few wardrobe
expense references to them.

I've come to the conclusion that tents are one of those things that
don't appear to have varied that much in form in Western Europe. Scots
bought most of their manufactured goods through the Low Countries, so
I would feel reasonably confident saying a tent you could get in the
Netherlands would be a tent possibly used either in Scotland or by a
Scot somewhere else.

I would think in Scotland, tents would have been used for pastimes,
such as tournaments and picnics or perhaps to billet the overflow
during state visits or when nobles came visiting to court. I doubt
seriously if Highlanders or Border reivers would have been hauling
large tents around for raids or interclan warfare, they tended to
sleep rough or billet themselves (willingly or unwillingly) with the
locals.

Out of Scotland, Scottish soldiers fought for the French and the Dutch
and since they were being assimilated into those troops, would have
most likely used those troops used. Anything out of the ordinary was
usually noted and I've yet to run across any French or Dutch quotes
about the camping styles of hired Scots. So either they used what was
issued to them or what they brought with them was not different enough
to cause comment from the foreign soldiers.

Good luck,
Margaret Hepburn
--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Fearghus" <fearghus@c...> wrote:
> Hello, I am try to do some research on living space that us by the
> Scots during wartime? Does anyone know a good book or site that talk
> about and or show what types of tent they use or what type of living
> space did they use?

Sorry, Dictionary of the Scottish language is at
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/. If you want to see Holinshed's map of the
siege of Edinburgh, email offlist & I'll sent you the tent parts. I
got a large resolution version of it through SCRAN. It is on SCRAN,
but you can't enlarge it enough to see the tents unless you have a
membership. I'm waiting on a book I just ordered about the siege of
Edinburgh, specifically because of the tents! I was curious about the
makeup of the troops that besieged the castles and hoped there were
exchequer accounts & the like listed for siege expenses to get a
specific idea of equipment used in the encampments. Once I get the
book, if there is anything germane to encampments I'd be happy to
share.
Margaret Hepburn

-----Original Message-----
From: "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn" <malvoisine@...>
Sent: Sep 15, 2005 11:02 AM
To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [albanach] Scottish Encampments

Sorry, Dictionary of the Scottish language is at
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/. If you want to see Holinshed's map of the
siege of Edinburgh, email offlist & I'll sent you the tent parts. I
got a large resolution version of it through SCRAN. It is on SCRAN,
but you can't enlarge it enough to see the tents unless you have a
membership. I'm waiting on a book I just ordered about the siege of
Edinburgh, specifically because of the tents! I was curious about the
makeup of the troops that besieged the castles and hoped there were
exchequer accounts & the like listed for siege expenses to get a
specific idea of equipment used in the encampments. Once I get the
book, if there is anything germane to encampments I'd be happy to
share.
Margaret Hepburn


How about a bibliographic reference for the book itself?

Cathal.








This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, cathal@m... wrote:
> How about a bibliographic reference for the book itself?
>
> Cathal.

Duh, you might want that huh?
It's 'Edinburgh Under Siege: 1571-1573' by Harry Potter (yes), 2003,
ISBN 0 7524 23320  I would presume the Holinshed map is also shown in
this book.

There's a couple of of copies available on ebay, but it's fairly new,
you can get it through Amazon etc. I would assume also through ILL.

[There's also an amusing interview on Abebooks with the author about
his (in)famous name.]
Cheers,
Margaret Hepburn

Your English was fine. What I was saying was that you might have
better luck & get a better answer with a more specific question.
Most everyone on this list that's into a lot of research kind of
specializes. Sharon Krossa/Euphrick probably has the broadest base
of well researched knowledge. For instance, my research tends to
focus on Lowlanders, especially in Ayrshire and in Glasgow, but the
bulk of the written knowledge for this tends to focus on Edinburgh
and I don't have too much to say right off the bat about the
relationships of Highlanders and lowland townspeople, hasn't really
come into my scope. I will happily look in what I've got though &
see if I have any citations. But, there very well might be someone
on this list with lots of knowledge about Cromarty or Clan
Mackenzie, etc. which was why I suggested being a little more
specific..---
In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "simoneboscolo" <simoneboscolo@y...>
wrote:
> Thank you for the answer. My question was about relationship
between
> Gaelic Highland Clans and burghs population. For example:the burgh
> of Cromarty was in XVI° sec. in the lands of Clan Mackenzie.
> Undoubtely Cromarty was also inhabitated by some Mackenzie, some
> Munro, some Ross. But this Mackenzie, or Munro, or Ross, born in
the
> burgh of Cromarty was loyal to his original clan (war, fiery
cross,
> childhood from his chief family, exc.) or culturally was a world
> apart.
> Sorry for my english but write in a foreign language is more
> difficult than speak or read it to me.
> Simone.
>

Simone, your English is understandable and I don't think that many of us speak
Italian.  I don't, anyway.  You do not need to apologize.  It is nice to see
your posts.

Shelton


Quoting simoneboscolo <simoneboscolo@...>:

> Thank you for the answer. My question was about relationship between
> Gaelic Highland Clans and burghs population. For example:the burgh
> of Cromarty was in XVI° sec. in the lands of Clan Mackenzie.
> Undoubtely Cromarty was also inhabitated by some Mackenzie, some
> Munro, some Ross. But this Mackenzie, or Munro, or Ross, born in the
> burgh of Cromarty was loyal to his original clan (war, fiery cross,
> childhood from his chief family, exc.) or culturally was a world
> apart.
> Sorry for my english but write in a foreign language is more
> difficult than speak or read it to me.
> Simone.
>
> --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret
> Hepburn" <malvoisine@y...> wrote:
> > That's kind of a complicated question to answer. If you are asking
> > about Lowland Clans, there weren't any, per se. There were large
> > families, with close kinship ties, but nothing like the Gaelic
> Clan
> > system. Unless a Clan member relocated to the Lowlands to live,
> then I
> > would imagine their relationship with the citizenship of towns &
> > burghs would be pretty much what you would expect. They were
> different
> > cultures, in some cases speaking a completely different language,
> but
> > were still from the same country.  Highlanders did a lot of trade
> > through the Lowlands. The Lowlands had very little true industry,
> but
> > there was even less in the Highlands and they would have a need to
> > trade for things that couldn't be manufactured or gotten further
> > north. The Highlanders would bring their cattle, sheep and sheep
> goods
> > (skins & wools) down to the towns for trade & export.
> >
> > Post 1560, you have a little more stress as the Lowlands slowly
> > converted to Protestantism and the Highlands stayed mainly
> Catholic,
> > well into the 18th century (this is a BROAD generalization). You
> don't
> > have what I would consider real political strife between north and
> > south until the 18th century with the Jacobite question.
> >
> > I think there is some perceived prejudice on both sides in the
> 16th
> > centuries - with Lowlands thinking the Highlanders were primitive,
> > wild, what have you & with Highlanders thinking the Lowlands were
> > too 'English', but again, that's a broad generalization.
> >
> > You might have better luck with a more specific question, i.e. if
> you
> > mean religion, or trade or intermarriage or whatever.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Margaret Hepburn
> >
> > --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "simoneboscolo"
> <simoneboscolo@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > I've read on Mrs Krossa's "Medieval Scotland" that the
> citizenship
> > of
> > > town and burghs in Scotland, whatever in Gaelic speaking
> domaine,
> > was
> > > of Inglish or Lowlander culture and language and burghs had
> their
> > own
> > > ruling sistem. But what kind of relationships there was beetwen
> Clan
> > > chiefs, Clan sistem and burgh's citizenship in Scotland until
> XVII°
> > > sec.?
>
>
>
>
>
> This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
> Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Didn't change much unless you were rich and could afford fancy,
expensive kinds. Common soldiers would have made do with whatever
they had, often blankets. That is, if they bothered with tents. Not
all did.
Anybody have a typical Scottish camp layout, say 1530? Or weren't
they different from, say, French practice.
> I've been researching tents for the past few months & haven't found
> any images of specifically Scottish tents except for one & it's not
a
> great one. It is Holinshed's 1573 map of Edinburgh showing the
siege
> of Edinburgh. There are two encampments shown with tents. Since the
> troops besieging Edinburgh were English and Scottish, there is no
way
> to know for sure if the tents shown were English or Scottish.
> Additionally, Holinshed was not a native Scot and I do not know if
he
> was actually a witness to the siege & there is no way to know if he
> put tents on the map because he thought logically there should be
> some. Most likely, he would have put a representation of a tent
that
> was familiar to him.
>
> There are plenty of period references to tents if you go through
the
> online Dictionary of Scottish language - there are a few wardrobe
> expense references to them.
>
> I've come to the conclusion that tents are one of those things that
> don't appear to have varied that much in form in Western Europe.
Scots
> bought most of their manufactured goods through the Low Countries,
so
> I would feel reasonably confident saying a tent you could get in
the
> Netherlands would be a tent possibly used either in Scotland or by
a
> Scot somewhere else.
>
> I would think in Scotland, tents would have been used for pastimes,
> such as tournaments and picnics or perhaps to billet the overflow
> during state visits or when nobles came visiting to court. I doubt
> seriously if Highlanders or Border reivers would have been hauling
> large tents around for raids or interclan warfare, they tended to
> sleep rough or billet themselves (willingly or unwillingly) with
the
> locals.
>
> Out of Scotland, Scottish soldiers fought for the French and the
Dutch
> and since they were being assimilated into those troops, would have
> most likely used those troops used. Anything out of the ordinary
was
> usually noted and I've yet to run across any French or Dutch quotes
> about the camping styles of hired Scots. So either they used what
was
> issued to them or what they brought with them was not different
enough
> to cause comment from the foreign soldiers.
>
> Good luck,
> Margaret Hepburn

What sort of hat would a 15C Scottish Highlander wear?

Thanks!

Pretty much the same sort of hats everyone else was wearing in the
15th century. You've got a number of styles to choose from. Artwork is
usually your best bet for looking at costume details. You don't really
start getting 'typical' Scottish headwear really until the 19th
century. There are portraits of Scottish kinds wearing the same sorts
of hats the English and continental kinds were wearing. I'm unaware of
any portraits of 15c Highlanders other than the grave effigies and
almost all of them have helmets on. I can point you to some constuming
sites if you are interested.
Cheers,
Margaret Hepburn
--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "mccobalt" <mccobalt@c...> wrote:
> What sort of hat would a 15C Scottish Highlander wear?
>
> Thanks!

From what I've read, helmets is about all you get for highland headgear
before the 16th-sh century. Now, I wonder if you go back far enough,
what the prevelance of hats was during the viking era on the western
seaboard....

-Cainnech Ruad mcGuairi

--- "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn" <malvoisine@...>
wrote:

> I'm unaware of any portraits of 15c Highlanders other than the grave
   > effigies and almost all of them have helmets on.



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Thanks!  I'd be interested in the sites you mentioned if you could pass them on!

John

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn
   To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:49 PM
   Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


   Pretty much the same sort of hats everyone else was wearing in the
   15th century. You've got a number of styles to choose from. Artwork is
   usually your best bet for looking at costume details. You don't really
   start getting 'typical' Scottish headwear really until the 19th
   century. There are portraits of Scottish kinds wearing the same sorts
   of hats the English and continental kinds were wearing. I'm unaware of
   any portraits of 15c Highlanders other than the grave effigies and
   almost all of them have helmets on. I can point you to some constuming
   sites if you are interested.
   Cheers,
   Margaret Hepburn
   --- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "mccobalt" <mccobalt@c...> wrote:
   > What sort of hat would a 15C Scottish Highlander wear?
   >
   > Thanks!





   This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
   Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

     a..  Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      albanach-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here's one to get you started
http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/medievalinks.htm
If you scroll down to fashion accessories & click on hats & wigs, it
takes you to another links page. I can't vouch for all the sites
given, but it should give you a starting point & some images.
Queta's Closet Patterns(used to be available through the SCA stock
clerk) has a nice generic men's hat with a turned up brim, seen on
Henry VII and a couple of Scottish James Kings (can't remember # off
top of my head, not my usual era).
Let me know if you need more help!(I'm the local hat cossack for my
area).
Margaret

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
wrote:
> Thanks!  I'd be interested in the sites you mentioned if you could
pass them on!
>
> John

Okay, figured out my James' - if you get on Google's Image search you
can enter James III and James IV of Scotland and it will bring up some
15th century images.
Margaret Hepburn

I always look at what I have arouind. I am not now and
wouldn't have been fashoin motivatied. My Kilt can
come up over me head and if I had soemthing that I
thought could keep the rain off or keep my dome warm I
would uh worn it to protect me.

At the time use your resources.

ah mi thoughts

Still roaming





______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).
P'raps he wanted to be a fashinable Hielander....
Cheers,
Margaret Hepburn
--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, ScottH <roaminginthewoods@y...> wrote:
> I always look at what I have arouind. I am not now and
> wouldn't have been fashoin motivatied. My Kilt can
> come up over me head and if I had soemthing that I
> thought could keep the rain off or keep my dome warm I
> would uh worn it to protect me.
>
> At the time use your resources.
>
> ah mi thoughts
>
> Still roaming

Before the kilt was the brat/plaid, and that too can be worn over the
head in inclement weather. A sunny day at Pennsic is inclement IMHO
therefore I wear my brat over my head frequently. My camp-mates call it
"Pictish camoflage".

-Cainnech Ruad

--- "Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn" <malvoisine@...>
wrote:

> Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
>
> 15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).
> P'raps he wanted to be a fashinable Hielander....
> Cheers,
> Margaret Hepburn
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
>Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
>15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
pulled up over his head.

Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
speculation.

Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
which may (or may not) have relevant information.

Affrick
--
Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
      Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/

Would a plain tam be okay?  Or one of the "robin hood" type of hats?

John

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sharon L. Krossa
   To: albanach@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:36 AM
   Subject: [albanach] Re: Medieval Scottish Hats


   At 10:24 PM +0000 9/23/05, Julie Stackable, SCA Margaret Hepburn wrote:
   >Nothing wrong with that thought - he was just asking specifically for
   >15th century & so wouldn't have a kilt yet handy to flip up (grin).

   No, he'd have a plaid wrapped around him that wasn't belted around
   his waist, and so at least as (if not more) readily available to be
   pulled up over his head.

   Given the significant differences between Highland and Lowland
   clothing in the 15th century, it is not safe to assume that
   Highlanders wore all (or even any) of the same kind of headgear that
   Lowlanders did -- at least not without some evidence to back up the
   speculation.

   Unfortunately, at the moment I don't really have the time to look
   into the question of Highland headgear, or else I'd write more...
   However, a search of the archives might pull up past discussions
   which may (or may not) have relevant information.

   Affrick
   --
   Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
   Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
        Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/


   This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
   Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

     a..  Visit your group "albanach" on the web.

     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      albanach-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It depends on what you mean by tam. If you just mean a sort of soft
sided beret, then you are fine. But tam appears to be an 18th-18th
century usage and doesn't only mean hat. A quick perusal of the
dictionary of the Scots language gives a few references. 'Bonnet'
would seem to be the word of choice and it clearly refers to a type
of hat, not a coif. There is mention of a carbouille hat (boiled
leather, obviously some sort of armor) and also a knapscull bonnet.
Knapscull refers to something covering the head closely, as a
skullcap and refers to a sort of metal skullcap worn under a regular
cloth cap or coif, meant to be defensive. There are a number of 15th
century references for men's bonnets, of red, black and blue, are
specifically mentioned. But, again, literary references do not
necessarily refer to Highlanders, but Lowlanders and it's hard to
know. I'll keep looking for a good, reliable Highland reference for
you.
cheers,
Margaret Hepburn

--- In albanach@yahoogroups.com, "John McConnell" <mccobalt@c...>
wrote:
> Would a plain tam be okay?  Or one of the "robin hood" type of
hats?
>
> John

Greetings,

I have been a member of this chat room for some time and know that
there are very knowlegable people in this group.  I need some
direction, if you can help.

A couple of years ago I joined the SCA.  Not long after, I decided to
creat a persona of a 14th Century Scottsman.  I started researching
names and came up with a name:

Iohne Makfulchiane


But I didn't research is how to pronounce the name.  I thought I could
figure it out in time.  To make a long story short, last weekend I was
awarded AoA from the King and my name was (I butchered (not fault of
anyones).  So now I have decided the research and find out how to
pronounce my name (in english and galic).

Can anyone help me or direct me to someone who can?  I would be
greatly in your (and the groups) debt.  Thank you.

You all have been quite helpful on my question about hats!  How about a
question about shoes?  My persona (in case it's been forgotten;-) is
early 15C Scottish Highlander.  I like this boot:

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/402072/c/106/reviewcount/15.html#mr

I've seen the ones from:

http://www.medievalmoccasins.com/

Not sure I'm crazy about them (plus they are pricey).  Would the
Minnetonka be way to out of it or could I get away with it?

Thanks!

John