Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
British Columbia. I have been playing for about a year and chose a
Scottish persona because really when I looked into my Dutch heritage
it wasn't all that exciting. I am carded for Rapier, but still have
much to learn. Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.

Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.

I pronounce it "Sou mus", but that is just my way of doing things. I am a
14th century Scot from the highlands (Lochaber), who is fighting in Italy as
a Mercenary thus I married an Italian Lady and have all the refinements that
go with that.

Seumas Camshronach an Lochabair Baron of Ruantallan (Nova Scotia)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
To: <albanach@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:13 PM
Subject: [albanach] New to the group. An introduction and question.


> Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
> and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
> are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
> British Columbia. I have been playing for about a year and chose a
> Scottish persona because really when I looked into my Dutch heritage
> it wasn't all that exciting. I am carded for Rapier, but still have
> much to learn. Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
> my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
> as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
> spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
> spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
> Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
> not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
>
> Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.
>
>
>
> This is Albanach, a group devoted to the study and re-enactment of
> Scotland c. 503-1603 AD.  Post messages to albanach@egroups.com.  Alter
> your account or view the archives at www.egroups.com/list/albanach
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Morel Laurens
Muirgheal inghean Labhrain

http://www.island.net/~bearpaws/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
To: <albanach@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:13 AM
Subject: [albanach] New to the group. An introduction and question.


Seumas wrote:
> Hello all. Glad I found this group. i hope to be able to contribute
> and learn somthing in turn. First of all, as I'm sure a number of you
> are, I'm a member of the SCA from the Shire of Krakenfjord (Vernon,
> British Columbia.

Greetings Seumas!  I too am from BC, on Vancouver Island and play rapier.
It's nice to meet someone who is somewhat of a neighbor.

> Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
> my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
> as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
> spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
> spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
> Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
> not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
>
> Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.

I'm not that great at names, with all the changes over the centuries in
Scotland, but I found the following:

http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1619+0
<Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\

It could be that it is pronounced differently at different times.  It could
be that the person writing the report is incorrect as well.  My own name was
pronounced three different ways by St. Gabe's and the two people I asked, so
. . .

This client letter tells you a bit about the name MacPherson, but I don't
think it will tell you anything you don't already know.
http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1631+0

Sharon Krossa has a great site, with lots of info at
http://www.medievalscotland.org/, including name articles.  Matthew
Newsome's site has some pretty necessary info for your persona. -
http://albanach.org/review.html  Please make sure to read his "intro" to
each site - it tells what is valuable at a site and what should be
discarded.  Very important!

Muirgheal inghean Labhrain
(called Morel)

At 6:43 PM -0700 6/18/03, Nancy Zupanic wrote:
>Seumas wrote:
>  > Anyway, enough about me the question I have is about
>  > my last name MacPherson which I understand to simply translate
>  > as "Parsons son". Waht I would like to know is would the Gaelic
>  > spelling have been used in the 16th century rather than the modern
>  > spelling and if so how is this pronounced (sounded out?) mac a'
>  > Phearsoin In the SCA would I use this spelling. I've allready learned
>  > not to pronounce Seumas as "Hamish" (chuckle) but as Shay mish.
>  >
>  > Hope someone can help as my persona is a work in progress.
>
>I'm not that great at names, with all the changes over the centuries in
>Scotland, but I found the following:
>
>http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1619+0
><Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\
>
>It could be that it is pronounced differently at different times.  It could
>be that the person writing the report is incorrect as well.  My own name was
>pronounced three different ways by St. Gabe's and the two people I asked, so
>. . .

The S. Gabriel report is right about the pronunciation. Put in more
human terms,  <Seumas> (and <Seamus> and other variant spellings) are
pronounced \SHAY-muss\, with the emphasis on the first syllable, and
this pronunciation hasn't really changed from the time the name first
came into Gaelic to the present day.

The pronunciation \SHAY-mish\ is how <Seumais> is pronounced, and
<Seumais> is the genitive/possessive case of <Seumas>. <Seumais>
means "of Seumas" or "Seumas's", and so is not what is used for the
given name. (It would be like naming your kid <Jim's> instead of
<Jim> on his birth certificate.)

The pronunciation \HAY-mish\ is how <Sheumais> is pronounced, and
<Sheumais> is both the lenited genitive case of <Seumas> and the
vocative case. The vocative case is the form used when you're talking
directly to someone rather than about them to a 3rd person, and so
not what is used for the given name. (It would be like naming your
kid <O Jim!> or <Hey Jim!> instead of <Jim> on his birth certificate.)

So

Form         Case         Pronunciation   Meaning
----         ----         -------------   -------
Seumas       Nominative   \SHAY-muss\     "James"

Seumais      Genitive     \SHAY-mish\     "James's" or "of James"

A Sheumais   Vocative     \HAY-mish\      "O James!" (Hey, "James!")


Effrick
--
Sharon L. Krossa, skrossa-ml@...

> ><Se/umas> itself is pronounced \SHAY-m@s\

Sharon wrote:
> The S. Gabriel report is right about the pronunciation. Put in more
> human terms,  <Seumas> (and <Seamus> and other variant spellings) are
> pronounced \SHAY-muss\, with the emphasis on the first syllable, and
> this pronunciation hasn't really changed from the time the name first
> came into Gaelic to the present day.

Thank you.  I was hoping you'd put in your 2 cents, as I have an SCA son who
calls himself Seumas, and was unsure if he was pronouncing it correctly.

Seumas, I hope to meet up with you sometime!

Muirgheal

> From: "Seumas MacPherson" <canuckfan33@...>
> Seumas wrote: Hello all. Glad I found this group.

Hi, Seumas.  Nice to meet you. :)
Diana Cosby

--
wulfe6@...
VRW Newsletter Editor
http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
" Every scene should have at least one event, however small, that changes the
course of the plot." - Alicia Rasley

Thank you all for your wonderful replys. Muirgheal, I will be at
Clinton this year should you wish to cross swords with a rookie!

Of interest to we Celtic types :-).

"Y chromosomes rewrite British history"

http://www.nature.com/nsu/030616/030616-15.html

YiS,
Baintighearna Muirghein Dhaire Faoilciarach  /|\
Dreiburgen Web Minister     http://www.dreiburgen.org
(any posts to e-mail lists do not reflect official
   opinions unless specifically stated otherwise)

While participating in a local SCA demo (Canada Day Celebration) I
got a little burnt on the top of my head. I have a cavalier hat for
when I have my regular Rapier costume on but this time I was wearing
the great kilt to fight in (yes, don't get me started on the why and
why not's, it's just fun to wear and stands out in a demo to
uninitiated folk)and I was wondering if anyone might direct me to a
pattern or pictures so I can make a hat?

Actually wearing the kilt, I got a funny look from a modern kilted
bagpipe band member. I was wearing pants underneath at the time so I
could enter the eric with no skin showing and fight rapier. After
explaining this to him he took it upon himself call the combatants to
fight with the glorious sounds of the bagpipes.  It was all very
moving and this gentleman even offered to teach me to play. I just
might take him up on that ( I hear my Dutch ancestors rolling in
their graves!)

Thanks for your assistance in advance!

I'm trying to help another writer.  She needs to have "Shadow Warrior"
translated to Gaelic.  Can you be of any assistance?  Thank you so much
for your time.
Diana Cosby

--
wulfe6@...
VRW Newsletter Editor
http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
"Never be afraid to try something new.  Remember, amateurs built the ark. 
Professionals built the Titanic." - Author Unknown

At 10:26 PM -0400 7/5/03, Diana Cosby wrote:
>   I'm trying to help another writer.  She needs to have "Shadow Warrior"
>translated to Gaelic.  Can you be of any assistance?  Thank you so much
>for your time.

For what purpose? That is, how is she going to use the phrase "Shadow
Warrior" (in Gaelic) in her book?

If she's thinking of using it for some kind of name, my educated
guess is that it would only be appropriate in a fantasy novel. (I
haven't researched the particular phrase as a name, but based on what
I have found in historical Gaelic naming, a translation of "Shadow
Warrior" just isn't likely as a historical Gaelic name, byname, or
nickname.)

Sharon
--
Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
      Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
      The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/

Sharon L. Krossa wrote:  If she's thinking of using it for some kind of
name, my educated  guess is that it would only be appropriate in a
fantasy novel. (I haven't researched the particular phrase as a name,
but based on what I have found in historical Gaelic naming, a
translation of "Shadow Warrior" just isn't likely as a historical Gaelic
name, byname, or  nickname.)

~Yes, she's aware this isn't a historically correct name.  She's seeking
the translation only of Shadow Warrior to Gaelic.  Thank you for your
response.
Diana Cosby

--
wulfe6@...
VRW Newsletter Editor
http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
"Never be afraid to try something new.  Remember, amateurs built the ark. 
Professionals built the Titanic." - Author Unknown

At 9:34 AM -0400 7/6/03, Diana Cosby wrote:
>Sharon L. Krossa wrote:  If she's thinking of using it for some kind of
>name, my educated  guess is that it would only be appropriate in a
>fantasy novel. (I haven't researched the particular phrase as a name,
>but based on what I have found in historical Gaelic naming, a
>translation of "Shadow Warrior" just isn't likely as a historical Gaelic
>name, byname, or  nickname.)
>
>~Yes, she's aware this isn't a historically correct name.  She's seeking
>the translation only of Shadow Warrior to Gaelic.  Thank you for your
>response.

Again, for what purpose? Are you indicating that she does intend to
use it as a name?

Note that translating a phrase in isolation often results in an
inaccurate translation, whether for names or anything else.
Especially when asking for a translation of a phrase rather than a
full sentence, full information for how it is intended to be used
should be given to help the translators translate correctly. Also,
any ambiguities of intended meaning should be clarified. For example,
is the warrior fighting shadows or is he a shadow himself, etc.? What
sense of "shadow" is intended -- a shadow on the sidewalk, a kind of
ghost, etc.? If for a historical novel, what time period and what is
desired regarding using historical or modern Gaelic? Etc. Any
potential translator needs to know this information in order to
translate accurately.

That being said, if the intention is to use a translation of "Shadow
Warrior" for a name in a historical novel, I confess I'm not inclined
to spend my time trying to figure out the correct Gaelic for it
(except perhaps if the book in question is clearly marked as a
fantasy novel rather than historical). I will, however, point out
that "Shadow Warrior" isn't all that easy a thing to translate into
Gaelic -- it strikes me as a very English fantasy book kind of phrase
and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out it could only be
translated into rather clumsy and/or artificial Gaelic. (As said, I
haven't spent the time trying to figure it out, so it could be there
is some sense of "Shadow Warrior" that would work very well in
Gaelic.)

I don't mean to be curmudgeonly, but it takes time and effort to
translate things for people, and I'd rather spend my limited time
helping people interested in historical accuracy. Her best bet is to
try to find a fluent speaker for whom translating the phrase would be
quick and easy and require essentially no effort (unless it really is
something that doesn't work in Gaelic) -- but when asking such a
person she should still give full information on exactly how she
intends to use the phrase and exactly what she intends it to mean.
(If you make the translator have to ask, it is no longer quick, easy,
and effortless.)

Sharon
--
Sharon L. Krossa, skrossa-ml@...

Sharon L. Krossa wrote:  Again, for what purpose? Are you indicating
that she does intend to  use it as a name?

~Yes.

> That being said, if the intention is to use a translation of "Shadow
> Warrior" for a name in a historical novel, I confess I'm not inclined
> to spend my time trying to figure out the correct Gaelic for it
> (except perhaps if the book in question is clearly marked as a fantasy
> novel rather than historical). I will, however, point out
> that "Shadow Warrior" isn't all that easy a thing to translate into
> Gaelic -- it strikes me as a very English fantasy book kind of phrase
> and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out it could only be
> translated into rather clumsy and/or artificial Gaelic. (As said, I
> haven't spent the time trying to figure it out, so it could be there
> is some sense of "Shadow Warrior" that would work very well in
> Gaelic.)

~I understand.

> I don't mean to be curmudgeonly, but it takes time and effort to
> translate things for people, and I'd rather spend my limited time
> helping people interested in historical accuracy. Her best bet is to
> try to find a fluent speaker for whom translating the phrase would be
> quick and easy and require essentially no effort (unless it really is
> something that doesn't work in Gaelic) -- but when asking such a
> person she should still give full information on exactly how she
> intends to use the phrase and exactly what she intends it to mean. (If
> you make the translator have to ask, it is no longer quick, easy, and
> effortless.)

~I will definitely pass this information to her.  Excellent points.  I
wasn't sure if someone on this list was fluent in Gaelic, that was my
hope.  Thank you so much for your time.
Diana

--
wulfe6@...
VRW Newsletter Editor
http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
"Never be afraid to try something new.  Remember, amateurs built the ark. 
Professionals built the Titanic." - Author Unknown

good for you diana
i think anyone able to hold there temper after that kind of rattling on need
there
props.....so good for you ...i wish i could help you but i'm just learning
the lang. now but if i come across something i'll send it to you

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this might be able to help you
i'm not sure which you need but you can put them together in some different
ways the gramer points are with them

shadow

faileas
nm. g.v. -eis; pl.+an, reflection, shadow
sgàil
nf. g.+e; pl.+ean, shade, shadow, veil
sgàth
nm. g.+a; v. sgàith; pl.+an, shadow, shade; dread, apprehension, sake,
account

warrior

àrmunn
nm. g.v. -uinn; pl. -uinn, warrior
gaisgeach
nm. g.v. -ich; pl. -ich, champion, hero, warrior
laoch
nm. g.v. laoich; pl. laoich, hero, champion, warrior
saoi
nm. pl. -dhean, good, worthy person; magnanimous man; learned man, warrior,
scholar

shadow warrior

most likly from what i've been told you'll have to ask i for get if the
descriptive goes first or last
the first is if its one person as a name or title the second is a
descriptive as in a member of a group or a type of warrior

sgàil laoch or sgàil saoi

laoch sgàil or saoi sgàil

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K K wrote:  this might be able to help you i'm not sure which you need
but you can put them together in some different   ways the gramer points
are with them

~Shadow, thank you very much for the breakdown.  I appreciate it.  I
contacted a friend of mine in the Highlands to help.  It turns out her
cousin's husband has a PHD in Gaelic.  So, I should be set.   Have a
great day and thanks again!
Diana

--
wulfe6@...
VRW Newsletter Editor
http://members.cox.net/wulfe6/
"Never be afraid to try something new.  Remember, amateurs built the ark. 
Professionals built the Titanic." - Author Unknown

I had found a wonderful site showing how to fold and wrap a great
kilt but can not find it among my favorites.
Could someone point me in the right direction?

Magdalena

Magdalena wrote:

>  I had found a wonderful site showing how to fold and wrap a great
> kilt but can not find it among my favorites.
> Could someone point me in the right direction?

You'll find some reccomended (and not so reccomended) sites indexed on
my web site here:
http://albanach.org/review.html

If you have any questions, though, just ask!
Aye,
Eogan

--
Matthew A. C. Newsome
http://albanach.org
Highland Dress Historian
Catholic Apologist

TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
on line at
http://albanach.org/apologetics

"To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
John 6:68

This is a great site! Thanks!
Lena

   Magdalena wrote:

   >  I had found a wonderful site showing how to fold and wrap a great
   > kilt but can not find it among my favorites.
   > Could someone point me in the right direction?

   You'll find some reccomended (and not so reccomended) sites indexed on
   my web site here:
   http://albanach.org/review.html

   If you have any questions, though, just ask!
   Aye,
   Eogan

   --
   Matthew A. C. Newsome
   http://albanach.org
   Highland Dress Historian
   Catholic Apologist

   TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
   on line at
   http://albanach.org/apologetics

   "To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
   John 6:68



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings and salutations!

I've lurked on the list for quite some time, enjoying the
extremely informative posts that have been presented.
I felt this would be a good place to begin our research.
Please pardon my verbosity; we want to get this right
the first time and as such will likely have many questions
in our pursuit of "measure twice-cut once" persona building.

My husband and I have both been in the SCA for well over
a decade each, and as our current personas were created
long before we married, we have decided that we both wish
to create entirely new ones. Something more fitting to our
household as it stands now, and more complementary
to each other - same time period, same location.

Our house is called Clann Stoirm Dun (the Clan of Storm's Fort -
as my Beloved has long borne the nickname of "Bloodstorm".)
Until recently, neither my he nor I had anything but the
barest minimums of persona histories, and as the household
we once belonged to never required more, we'd honestly never
felt compelled to focus too deeply on extreme details.
But all that's changed, and we feel it's time to do something
better now. We want to do something of an adventuresome
venue - perhaps merchant, perhaps mercenary (or a bit of
both ;), based out of the far NorthEast - preferably the Orkneys.
We aren't fixed on a specific time period yet, as we prefer to
leave our options open for now until we have compared more.
The only thing we know for sure is we want to be from the
North East, partly to allow for a broader cultural base between
Scot and Norse fashion and accoutrements, and also as that
is the region my husband's family immigrated from (most
of my relatives were Lowlanders :).

Admittedly much of the time hesitation is on my part, and
has a great deal to do with the kinds of fashions women
were allowed in that region. I have always had a penchant for
tunics and leggings as wear-a-day for their comfort and
versatility, but I accept that was not very appropriate for
women at the time, particularly noble ladies. Does anyone
know of a solid resource for comparing historical fashions of
Northern Scotland & the Isles? Bear in mind, I am not a petite
woman by any stretch, nor is my Beloved a small man, so the
clothing we choose must be serviceable in both form and function.
At this time he favors a Great kilt, and I would hope that might
still be an option for him. We are well aware that the tartans
seen today stem mainly from 19th century creations. But like
me, he dresses for comfort and versatility and the Great Kilt
has done that for him. So long as the time period we choose
allows him to retain that (I can't help it - he looks FABULOUS
in a kilt, and I don't want him to have to give that up if we don't
have to :) I'm willing to make many concessions with my own garb.
We also have a 7-year-old son to dress, though he's far from
picky about his clothing so long as it's comfortable and doesn't
get in his way either.

As I said, want to do this right the first time, so I am open to
as many respective sources the good gentles of this list
may be able to provide. Nothing is fixed in stone, and we're
a very adaptable bunch. I welcome your input!

Slàinte,

Mrs. Brown  :)
(aka Lady Genevra de Brus-McCaithness of Clann Stoirm Dun)
owner, HeatherWind Designs
http://www.heatherwind.com

====================================
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lady Genevra,

Welcome to the list.  I don't have time right now to go into too much
depth, but I wanted to say that if one of your concerns was for your
husband to be able to wear the Great Kilt (breacan feile) and be
historically correct, you need to set your personas around the late
sixteenth century.  Unfortunately, I'm afraid you might not find
late-sixteenth century lady's fashion to your liking, based on what you
said in your last email. ;-)

Any ladies on the list have some advice on comfortable sixteenth century
garb?

The North East is also a fine location as long as you limit yourself to
the more Gaelic areas and not in say, Aberdeen, or another English
(Scots) speaking area where Gaelic clothing might not be the norm.

I'll let Effrick takle naming issues, but if you want a historically
appropriate name for the period, you'll have to drop the "McCaithness of
Clann Stoirm Dun" altogether.  Are you willing to tackle this?

Let us know how we may be of service to you.

Aye,
Eogan Og mac Labhriann

--
Matthew A. C. Newsome
http://albanach.org
Highland Dress Historian
Catholic Apologist

TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
on line at
http://albanach.org/apologetics

"To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
John 6:68

Greetings Eogan, and thank you so very much for your kind reply!
I've inserted responses into the post below.

<snip>
Welcome to the list. I don't have time right now to go into too much
depth, but I wanted to say that if one of your concerns was for your
husband to be able to wear the Great Kilt (breacan feile) and be
historically correct, you need to set your personas around the late
sixteenth century. Unfortunately, I'm afraid you might not find
late-sixteenth century lady's fashion to your liking, based on what you
said in your last email. ;-)
</snip>

While we aren't intending to be fanatical in our research, we do
wish to be at least in the ballpark of historical accuracy as much
as we can. I've spoken to Killian (my husband :) about the kilt and
his reply was "I'd have to research that specific time period a bit
more. As much as I love my kilt, I'd feel a bit strange basing my
entire persona around one article of clothing." I agree - as I said,
we're willing to be flexible.
For my part, I seem to recall there were at least some fashions of
the late 1500s that didn't require a woman to be anorexic - it was
my understanding that Renaissance culture appreciated women
with curves, at least as evidenced in the art of the time period.
Also, if we go later Period it might not be as unusual for a woman
to have some formal (albeit private) education.

My current persona, such as it is, is a late 12th century jongleur.
I am a vocal and instrumental musician (I favor the bodhran above
all), and have served as a scribe and herald (book and field) over
the last 13 years. I would like to find a way in my new persona to
be able to justify a more than passing knowledge of music and art
at least - I don't expect to be able to do so with heraldry, or at least
not field herald.

My Beloved's martial strength is on the war field rather than the
tourney Eric, and he prefers to fight ambidextrous (Florentine style,
longsword and mace). He is a poet at heart, an excellent cook, a
notorious punster, and has also served many a cold night on the
constabulary - something well in keeping with his formidable build
and command presence.

We had both entertained the notion of later-Period personas before
(something to justify our mutual love of Shakespeare! LOL ) but
until now hadn't given it much serious thought.


<snip>
The North East is also a fine location as long as you limit yourself to
the more Gaelic areas and not in say, Aberdeen, or another English
(Scots) speaking area where Gaelic clothing might not be the norm.
</snip>

Our first thought was in the area of the Orkneys. If we chose a locale
on the Mainland, it would be in the Sutherland region, likely in the vicinity
of John o' Groats, and definitely on the coast. I just found a note online
saying that the Orkneys did not become annexed to Scotland till 1472,
so for us to maintain a tie to Scotland and be from that area we would
have to steer toward a later-Period persona anyway.

My husband's (mundane) paternal great-grandfather, and great-great
grandfather were maltmen from the village of Dufftown in Moray - around
the time of the founding of the Glenfiddich distillery. His grandfather was
the first generation of that branch born in America and carried on his
father's tradition for home brewing. Killian's Dad once worked as a bartender,
and Killian himself loves to experiment with home brewing when time
and finances allow. My own Scottish predecessors came from Edinburgh
and Galloway (I am related to Robert de Brus on my mother's side,
hence my current persona's surname) but it is Killian's line we're
favoring.
I realize Dufftown is considerably further south than John o' Groats, but
it was through researching that region that we were drawn to the
Highlands of the far Northeast and the Islands. We're also both
Navy brats (our fathers were both retired CPOs) and the desire to
be on and near the water is strong.  :)

As for "limiting" ourselves to the more Gaelig based regions, that
would not break our hearts in the least. We're currently working on
learning Gaelig not only to enhance our personas, but also to pass
on that heritage to our son. We would love to honor it through our
collective personas!


<snip>
I'll let Effrick takle naming issues, but if you want a historically
appropriate name for the period, you'll have to drop the "McCaithness of
Clann Stoirm Dun" altogether. Are you willing to tackle this?
</snip>

Indeed, yes we are. We know that "McCaithness" is not a valid
clan name in the least - it was something more or less cobbled
together on the fly when we first chose to form our own household,
as Killian's persona was based in Caithness. His persona was a
foundling, and unaware of his true family name, so we'd justified
the name McCaithness to claim he was a child of the land. It seemed
a fun, romantic notion at the time, even if implausible for historical
accuracy. For years he had been known simply as Killian Bloodstorm -
a usename he'd kept to honor the memory of his SCA clan brother in Atenveldt.

For that reason, we would still prefer to maintain at least some semblance
of "Stoirm Dun" for our household's name, even if Clann is an inappropriate
preface. We're open to suggestions.

Thank you again for your assistance, and we look forward to
hearing from you all!

In service,

Lady Gen  :)


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At 12:01 PM -0700 7/21/03, A.K. Brown wrote:
...
>Our house is called Clann Stoirm Dun (the Clan of Storm's Fort -
>as my Beloved has long borne the nickname of "Bloodstorm".)

Since you express interest in more historical accuracy, I will
mention my article "Medieval Gaelic Clan, Household, and other Group
Names" at
<http://www.MedievalScotland.org/scotnames/households.shtml>, in case
it may be of interest to you. (Although if you go with an Orkney
persona, it won't fit historically with a Gaelic household name.)

...
>But all that's changed, and we feel it's time to do something
>better now. We want to do something of an adventuresome
>venue - perhaps merchant, perhaps mercenary (or a bit of
>both ;), based out of the far NorthEast - preferably the Orkneys.
>We aren't fixed on a specific time period yet, as we prefer to
>leave our options open for now until we have compared more.
>The only thing we know for sure is we want to be from the
>North East, partly to allow for a broader cultural base between
>Scot and Norse fashion and accoutrements, and also as that
>is the region my husband's family immigrated from (most
>of my relatives were Lowlanders :).

Excluding the Orkneys, what do you mean by "far North East"? Are you
talking north of Inverness, or are you talking the northeast corner
some ways east of Inverness? (Normally "Northeast Scotland" refers to
the large corner east of Inverness, around Aberdeen, etc.)

>Admittedly much of the time hesitation is on my part, and
>has a great deal to do with the kinds of fashions women
>were allowed in that region. I have always had a penchant for
>tunics and leggings as wear-a-day for their comfort and
>versatility, but I accept that was not very appropriate for
>women at the time, particularly noble ladies. Does anyone
>know of a solid resource for comparing historical fashions of
>Northern Scotland & the Isles? Bear in mind, I am not a petite
>woman by any stretch, nor is my Beloved a small man, so the
>clothing we choose must be serviceable in both form and function.
>At this time he favors a Great kilt, and I would hope that might
>still be an option for him.

Not for the Orkneys (they are Norse, later Norn in language and
culture, with Scots added in late period, rather than Gaelic). On the
mainland it will depend on what you mean by far northeast.

If the desire is for a belted plaid (great kilt) to be historically
plausible for the persona, that really limits your time choices to
late 16th century and your persona culture choice to a Scottish Gael
(Highlands and Western Isles), as the first clear evidence of plaids
worn belted by men comes only in the last decade of the 16th century
and they were worn only by Scottish Gaels.

This also will affect your choices for occupation. Mercenary is still
quite plausible (Scottish mercenary companies, including Highlanders,
fought in various wars on the continent in the 16th century), but
merchant in the sense of international merchant or merchant in a town
is not. (In Scotland burghs had a monopoly on trade within their
regions, and royal burghs had a monopoly on international trade, and
burgesses -- burgh citizens -- were Lowland in culture. A Highlander
might trade with the merchants of a burgh, and perhaps at fairs
within his own region, but normally would not be primarily a
merchant.)

Have you explored the various information on my web site? You'll find
many articles and resources there that can help you start to sort out
some of these questions:

<http://www.MedievalScotland.org/>

Sharon, ska Affrick
--
Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@...
Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more:
      Medieval Scotland - http://www.MedievalScotland.org/
The most complete index of reliable web articles about pre-1600 names:
      The Medieval Names Archive - http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/

"A.K. Brown" wrote:

> I've spoken to Killian (my husband :) about the kilt and
> his reply was "I'd have to research that specific time period a bit
> more. As much as I love my kilt, I'd feel a bit strange basing my
> entire persona around one article of clothing." I agree - as I said,
> we're willing to be flexible.

People have based their personas around less. ;-)


> I would like to find a way in my new persona to
> be able to justify a more than passing knowledge of music and art at
> least - I don't expect to be able to do so with heraldry, or at least
> not field herald.
>

Since all of us in the SCA are presumed to be from the noble ranks, I
think any "well born" woman would be expected to have a certain amount
of knowledge in music and art (more so than someone with 12 years of
public school education in America might have at any rate), so you are
safe there.


> Our first thought was in the area of the Orkneys. If we chose a locale
> on the Mainland, it would be in the Sutherland region, likely in the
> vicinity
> of John o' Groats, and definitely on the coast.

Oops!  Sorry, when you said "Northeast" it threw me.  Most people refer
to the hump that extends from Inverness east around Aberdeen as "the
Northeast" of Scotland, so I assumed that was the region you meant.

You wouldn't find Gaelic language or clothing on Orkney, you'd have to
look towards Scandanvia for your influence there.  But Sutherland would
be appropriate for a Gaelic persona.

Aye,
Eogan
--
Matthew A. C. Newsome
http://albanach.org
Highland Dress Historian
Catholic Apologist

TURRIS FORTIS Catholic Apologetics
on line at
http://albanach.org/apologetics

"To whom shall we go?" -- St. Peter
John 6:68

Thank you Sharon for that information, and for the links -
we deeply appreciate your help!

Slàinte,

Lady Gen  :)


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I am doing some genealogical research. I started on the Wyatt lines, and
worked though the Nevilles''s male lines  to a person named Albanach Mac
Donnachaidh. Now Albanach was born in 975 A.D. He died in battle in 1045
along with his son Maldred MacCrinan. Am  I on the correct list.
Sincerely
Jacob L. Bateman III
Montgomery, Alabama

Was Scotland in its Iron Age in 503. Does anyone know the origin of the
Picts.
Le

Greetings!
    I am putting together a wardrobe for early 16th century highland
nobility and need a bit of assistance. I am having trouble finding a
source for period appropriate generic looking tartan that would be
what the doctor ordered for a nice brat. Any assistance from fellow
highlanders out there?
Slainte,
Joe

txscot138 wrote:

> Greetings!
>    I am putting together a wardrobe for early 16th century highland
> nobility and need a bit of assistance. I am having trouble finding a
> source for period appropriate generic looking tartan that would be
> what the doctor ordered for a nice brat. Any assistance from fellow
> highlanders out there?
> Slainte,
> Joe

You could use a District tartan or haunt fabric stores for a
non-specific tartan.

--
The Great Scot, Magician  http://www.greatscotmagic.com.
Historic & Multi-epoch Entertainer
Expert in Historical, Scottish, & Celtic Magic
Let me make your event memorable for you & your guests
Stuart Joseph, 802-463-1954 (phone) 775-719-9914 (fax)
36 Front St., Bellows Falls, VT 05101 USA