As there have no rebuttals and my propositions and deconstructions have been
allowed to pass without challenge, we may proceed to the next level of
discussion. If in future a discussant wishes to rebut my refutations of the now
debunked Meykandar siddanta, we may resume our discussions then at that point.

For the record these would be the relevant essays that has to be rebutted.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akandabaratam/message/27745

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akandabaratam/message/27819

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akandabaratam/message/27832

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akandabaratam/message/27868


The usual summarised view of the siddhanta philosophy as put forward by the
Meykandar siddhantists is as follows:

"The triad - God, souls and the world are three eternal realities, each separate
and distinct from each other, and uncreated, existing from eternity. God in His
infinite Love so as to free the souls, existing from eternity, fettered by the
bondage of anava, created this world from the pre-existing uncreated primordial
stuff, maya, so that souls and evolve and know Him and reach His Holy Feet to
forever enjoy a non-dual (but a differentiated oneness) relationship with Him."

It is claimed that this is the teachings of the Siva Jnana Bodham. There are
many translations of the SJB, some of which I have studied. Shown below are two
translations by Gordon Matthews (GM) and K. Loganation (KL).

It is my view, and I now challenge any discussant to show otherwise, that the
claim that 'souls and the world are uncreated independent eternal realities', is
not found anywhere in those twelve sutras of the SJB. No such postulate has been
put forward by Meykandar. The SJB does not deal with the issue of creation or
non creation of the souls and worlds! It is silent on those issues. It deals
with freeing the souls of its inherent fetters.

So where did that assumed claim come from? From the 13 commentaries on the Siva
Jnana Bodham which together with the SJB are collectively called the '14
Meykandar Shastras'. Being commentaries they are not really original writings
but an expansion and elaboration of the 12 original SJB sutras. And in that
process assumptions and corollary postulates have been put forward so as to make
the whole Meykandar philosophic scaffolding stand.

In these commentaries the question was asked, 'why did god create the world'.
And inorder to resolve that they 'worked backwords' to come up, to provide, a a
reasonable and acceptable basis. A hypothesis was put forward, 'that God did
create the world', and therefore a hypothetical theory was backward generated -
logic working backwards, 'that it must have been indeed a praiseworthy reason
for him to do so'. So we arrive at a solution that 'it was to free the eternal
souls from the malams' that 'somehow got enmeshed with souls', even though the
malams are obviously not integral to the soul. As to how the souls got infected
with malams in the first place is not for anyone to impertinently ask, and
neither was such a crucial question dealt with in the SJB which is supposed to
be a complete overarching philosophy.

Notice that the SJB did not comment anything on the subject of 'why god created
the world' but delves straight into freeing souls of anava.

So I make a firm separation between the SJB and the rest of the 13 Meykandar
Shastras. The MS is not in compliance and consistent with the SJB. It dealt with
a subject that was not dealt with in the SJB.

While we are on this let us be reminded that the Siva Jnana bodham is a
translation of the Raurava Agama, and therefore not an original text (this is
accepted by S. Shivapadasundaram). Tirumular (200 BCE) mentions the 28 agamas,
including the Raurava, which means that agamas clearly preceded the SJB. The
'receiver' of the Raurava Agama according to tradition is Rishi Gautama, a vedic
sage, who authored/received several rig veda samhitas an well as several
upanishads. One would be hard pressed to believe that he would write something
that contradicts his own upanishads and rig verses.

As to whether Meykandar translated the Raurava agama faithfully is another
issue, but something I do not which to pursue as it is not necessary. We are
certain that Meykandar did not author the SJB because he wrote a commentary to
the SJB, the Meykandar Karutturai. One does not write a text and then write a
commentary on it. There would be no logic here, as that would mean his SJB is
incomplete, and a sorely needed addendum was required.

The word 'siddhanta' was used for the first time in the Tirumantiram. It is used
to describe the philosophy of Tirumular. He was a saint and therefore did not
codify his philosophy as a scholar such as Meykandar would. Neither in the
Raurava Agama or in the Siva Jnana Bodham is the word 'siddhanta' once used to
describe itself as that philosophy. Siddhanta therefore cannot be used to to
describe the Siva Jnana Bodham.

While the vedas and upanishads speaks of several traditions including monism,
dualism, monotheism, polytheism as well as metatheism, the agamas are specific;
it is singularly theistic, monistic and unambiguous. This can be shown later if
required.

It has to be shown clearly 'where exactly' Meykandar 'wrote' in those twelve
sutras that souls and world are;

1. uncreated by Him,
2. independent of Him
3. and on Dissolution, souls and worlds continued to exist independent of Him.

After all, such important distinctions would surely deserve a clear statement to
that effect.

Let all read and judge for themselves. Just quote me the exact sutra number and
line, as I cannot seem to locate it.

Thereafter I shall proceed to show exactly what Meykandar's commentary was, to
further discredit the now demolished philosophy that is so called 'Meykandar's
siddhanta'.

It must be borne in mind that 'what remains unchallenged and undeconstructed' is
the final siddhanta.

Regards.

Pathma






SIVA JNANA BODHAM

FIRST SUTRA
GM: Because the world, consisting of things male, female and neuter, is subject
to the three operations (production, maintenance, and dissolution), it is an
entity produced (by an Agent). Having dissolved, it comes into being again
because of Impurity. The end is the beginning, say the wise.

KL: This world, objectively understood and linguisticalized in terms of the
pronouns he, she, it and so forth is a totality that is in historical flux; and
therefore a Reality caused to appear. And since though dissolved by DARKNESS
into not-being-there, it gets continuously reissued, there is a BEING that
remains as the causal ground for its dissolution and reissuance. So will say the
philosophers.

SECOND SUTRA
GM: He, being one with souls and other than souls, abides in inseparable union
with the Power, so that souls experience going and coming because of twofold
works.

KL: The creatures act as if they are BEING itself, get into the existential
circulation of births and deaths as determined by the MORAL LAW, the basis of
which is the undying DECREE of BEING, who stands always with them never
departing or absenting HIMSELF even for a moment.

THIRD SUTRA
GM: By saying that it is not, by saying `my body', by knowing of the five
senses, by knowledge when they are suppressed, by the absence of feeling and
activity in sleep, by knowing when caused to know,(it is proved that) there is a
soul in the body which is an instrument produced by Maya.

KL: The psyche exists as a distinct entity in a machine-like body because; there
is the act of denial or negation; there is appropriation of the body as its own;
there is consciousness of the five senses being ineffective during meditative
moments; when deeply asleep there is no emotional and feeling toned activities,
and there is learning on being instructed.

FOURTH SUTRA
GM: The soul is not one of the inner faculties. But being without knowledge
owing to Innate Impurity, it is associated with them like a king with his
ministers, and has five states.

KL: The psychic entity is not any one of the internal cognitive utensils but
rather that which uses them (to attain various states of consciousness). Being
not-yet-fully-conscious because of the intrinsically present atomising DARKNESS,
like a king who uses the information provided by his ministers (to make a
decision), the psyche enjoys the five fold existential states (with the use of
these utensils).

FIFTH SUTRA
GM: Though body, mouth, eye, nose (and ear) perceive by the help of the soul,
they do not know. Like them, souls, (though they know), by the grace of the
Peerless One in their knowing (do not know). They are like the iron in the
presence of the magnet.

KL: The senses the eyes, nose, mouth, the body and so forth do not perceive and
judge unless ordained by the psychic entity the truth of which has already been
shown. In an analogous manner the psychic entities remain ignorant of themselves
unless they are given to understand themselves by BEING that remains the GROUND
of LOVE. The psychical entities attain self-consciousness in being drawn unto
BEING irresistibly like pieces of iron are drawn to a magnet.

SIXTH SUTRA
GM: If He is knowable, He is non-real; if He is unknowable, He is non-existent.
Therefore the truly wise say that He is neither, but is spiritual reality,
knowable and unknowable.

KL: If whatever apprehended is nonabsolute and if not apprehended at all then it
is a nothing, the understanding of BEING, it should be noted is not either of
these. It is understood however in a way distinct from the above too. The world
is understood and articulated in terms of these two distinct modes of
understanding, i.e. understanding the civacat and acat.

SEVENTH SUTRA
GM: In the presence of the real all things are non-existent; so the real does
not know (them). The non-real is not; so it cannot know (the real). (Therefore)
that which knows both is the soul which is neither.

KL: Because there is nothing as an Other in the context of absolute
illumination, BEING cannot be said to perceive in the ordinary sense. The
Non-Being, because it is NOT-THERE absolutely, can never be conscious of the
possibility of absolute illumination. Hence there is something different from
BEING and Non-Being with the capacity for both i.e. with a Being that is
[Being-(BEING)] and which on account of that does not cease to be a single
individual. 

EIGHTH SUTRA
GM: When because of the soul's meritorious practices the Primal One enlightens
the soul as a guru also, saying, `Brought up among savages, the five senses,
thou hast lost consciousness (of thy true estate), the soul leaves them and,
being not other (than Hara), reaches Hara's feet.

KL: The human beings are normally lost in the pleasures of the senses that they
seek like the hunters and grow ignorant of the nonsensorial. The BEING however
discloses HIMSELF in various archetypal forms and instructs as a GURU and on
account of which the human beings gain illumination provided they practice the
necessary austerities. And since BEING is not alien to the Being of these
individuals, they naturally gravitate towards the divine presence of BEING.

NINTH SUTRA
GM: Let the soul by spiritual vision discover the Lord in its own
consciousness-the Lord who cannot be known by imperfect knowledge and
sense-perception. Which the soul abandons the world of sense as a quickly
passing mirage, the Lord becomes cool shade (for it). It will ponder the Five
Letters in the manner prescribed.

KL: BEING cannot be comprehended with the objective glances that disclose only
the sensorial, the physical and hence transcending them and developing visages
for the noumenal realities one should seek to comprehend BEING through
hermeneutical efforts in these realms. And having grasped the essence of BEING
which is beyond any form of the linguistic one should abandon the earthly
desires. At this point the relevant sadhana is pancatsara, the recitation and
full understanding of which would lead the anma to the cool shades of the
presence of BEING ITSELF.

TENTH SUTRA
GM: When the soul, having become one (with the Lord), even as the Lord is one
with the soul, abides in the Lord's service, powerful Karma and Mala and Maya
pass away.

KL: Existence constituted by the self living as SAME AS BEING is authentic
existence. And when one pursues it, being always One-With-BEING and doing only
those dictated by BEING, not only we escape the worldly attachments but also the
karma so difficult to disengage otherwise.

ELEVENTH SUTRA
GM: Like the soul which makes the seeing eye to see-in order that the soul may
see, the Lord sees, and makes the soul to see. Therefore in unforgetting love
the soul reaches the feet of Hara.

KL: Like the mind that directs the eyes and makes them perceive, BEING directs
the self and also discloses to the self what it is in itself. And because of
this overcome with immense gratitude the anma will abide with unabating LOVE
towards BEING and follow unquestioningly Its dictates.

TWELFTH SUTRA
GM: When, having washed away the Impurity which prevents it reaching the
sustaining Feet that are like the red lotus-flower, and having joined the
company of those who love the Lord, the soul is rid of delusion, it worships as
Hara Himself the habit of those who abound in devotion, and His shrines.

KL: Having destroyed the presence of ANTIBEING within that resists the anma
accessing and being in the realms of UNIVERSAL DANCE, one should be in the
company of those in LOVE with BEING, worshipping the divine individuals pure in
heart and full of universal LOVE and the Temples as if BEING itself is present
as these.

Links to Translations:
http://shaivam.org/tamil/sansivae.pdf
http://mssubashinik.tripod.com/sivabo_1.htm

In Tamil:
http://shaivam.org/siddhanta/san_sivagnana_bodam_u.htm

In Tamil transliteration:
http://shaivam.org/siddhanta/sansivanyana.htm