A new file has been uploaded to the Files section: (An essay by Shri
V.Subrahmanian ('Subbu-ji')



http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MDUTS5tjzL9-n3YXAeR8flYYbHL-WWTMQKdisfBWkJT8K_Q33iH\
SkDh-nyviNS0lHFyeCxtOx_4HiMySLw/Gita_comments_on_Mundaka_mantra.pdf

OR

http://tinyurl.com/yhvwrks

Here is a posting of the biggest day of Deepam processions in Tiruvannamalai.
This is the day that the gods in the big 'cars' are pulled by thousands of
devotees around the city. This is the biggest spectacle of the festival.

http://richardarunachala.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/deepam-2009-day-of-the-big-cha\
riots/

Enjoy!

Om Arunachala,
Richard

RULES TO BE OBSERVED WHILE CHANTING OF MANTRAS

Have complete devotion and faith in the Mantra. Repose your complete faith in
the deity being worshipped.

Keep a peaceful mind.

While chanting of Mantras never let your mind be distracted.(concentrate deeply)

Put your complete will power in the chanting of Mantra.

Never be afraid while the chanting of Mantra.

Never change your place before your Mantrik meditation is complete.

Perform Mantrik meditation as laid down in our scriptures.

From the beginning to the end of the meditational chanting of Mantra do not
change incense(Dhoop), lamp(Deepak), asana, beads(Mala) and clothes.

For More Detail :http://hindudevotionalpower.blogspot.com

Thanks!!!

Jnaana yoga and Self-realization – VII

In the last post we have differentiated ignorance and ignorance caused vaasanaas
or ignorance generated likes and dislikes or raaga dhveShaas. Knowledge of I am
that or tat tvam asi, eliminates the ignorance which is anaadi – that part is
immediate and direct. On the other hand ignorant generated vaasanaas can only be
eliminated by constant remembrance of my true nature, which is called jnaana
smaraNa.  These vaasanaas are habitual notions which manifest in their true
colors as I involve my self in the worldly transactions. Hence seekers complain
that they understand Vedanta, but that understanding remains only in the class
room. Once they come out into the world of transactions, they forget the
teaching and get entangled in the emotional world. If they understand the truth
as implied by Vedanta, then that understanding is the knowledge all that one
needs in order to eliminate the ignorance of myself. This should be understood.

That understanding only eliminates the ignorance but not the ignorance generated
vaasanaas that formed before I gained that knowledge. In my transactions, I am
not able to utilize that knowledge because of the pressure of these vaasanaas.
The only way to counter this forgetfulness is to bring back from memory the
understanding of the nature of myself – that is called jnaana smaraNa, and
reflecting on the true nature of myself, from which perspective all other
worldly things become trivial, since fundamentally they are false.
Nidhidhyaasana is, therefore, not meditation on some Brahman, nor seeking some
transcendental experience of Brahman, but constant recollection of my own true
nature that I have understood by the application of the mahaavaakya, tat tvam
asi. This knowledge I had gained by shravana and manana, that is by consistent
and systematic study of Vedanta, under a competent teacher. The recollection and
constant abidance on my true nature
  will help in looking at the problems at hand objectively as I face the world. 
The problems that come (obviously they do not belong to me as I am aware of the
problems) will be understood either as part of praarabda of the BMI or
understood as Iswara vibhuuti, depending how much I can detach myself from the
problems and be objective about it. This is what Nidhidhyaasana means; and
scriptures says after shravana and manana, one has to do nidhidhyaasana –
nidhidhyaasitavyaH.  Nidhidhyaasana therefore is constant remembrance of my true
nature, which I understood on the basis of mahaavaakya shravana. That needs to
be done whenever I forget due to habitual notions acquired when I was ignorant.
With practice, it becomes natural and spontaneous where I am conscious of my
true nature all the time in spite of ups and down in the life. The world will be
understood as mithyaa and therefore can never affect me, who is absolutely real.

Here, we need to understand the nature of the vaasanaas that try to pull us back
to the world. The sanchita and aagaami karmas will not affect us since in my
understanding of myself, I have realized I am akarthaa, non-doer, and abhoktaa,
non-enjoyer too. What is left is only praarabda which have already been let out
to germinate. Hence because of praarabda only I have taken a particular body in
particular womb; similarly the mind and intellect along with kaaraNa shariira or
causal body. These are like arrow shot, have already been initiated and need to
be exhausted, whether I am jnaani or not. Hence body continues to have the
problems that it is destined to have. Similarly, the mind and intellect and
their limitations will continue as before. That means BMI problems remain as
they were before I became a jnaani. As I transact with the world with the
vaasanaas that were pre-existing, I forget my understanding that I am sat chit
ananda swaruupa. This is
  expressed as – ‘Sir, I understand very well in the class, but when I go out
into the world I forget and get carried away with attachments and aversions’.-
In such situations, the solution is, therefore, to keep bringing back that
understanding gained in the class to the field where I am in. This constant
remembrance of the knowledge of my own nature has to be done deliberately until
it becomes natural. Nidhidhyaasana can be done therefore anywhere; solitarily
sitting in Himalayas, or actively involved in life, with constant study of
scriptures, teaching, writing, discussing, contemplating – any or all of the
above – in order to keep reminding oneself, and in the process reminding the
others as well, of the nature of the absolute reality. Once we understand the
theory, we can adopt it to suite to our needs. What is the essential requirement
is for the mind to dwell on the absolute truth that the mahaavaakya has pointed
and to remain in that
  knowledge that is gained by shravana and manana. All other external
environments, the doos and don’t, prescribed or interpreted, as requirements
are all to be understood only as means to accomplish the above essential
requirement. Giving more importance to the means than what they deserve is to
miss the essential requirement. The best advice one can give is to follow the
advice of your own teacher who can guide you considering your qualifications and
circumstances.

We will address one final objection particularly from those who profess that who
am I enquiry is enough and there is no need of Shaastras, particularly those
that do not understand Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi’s teaching fully or
correctly, although they claim themselves to be Ramana Maharishi’s disciples.
Who am I inquiry will lead only tvam  padaartha vichaara or inquiry of subject
in the sentence - you are that. The mahaavaakya is not complete without the
predicate. By ‘who am I’ enquiry using anvaya vytarika logic one can arrive
at I am not this not this, as all this and this come under objects, while I am
the subject different from the object, this. The object can include starting
from external objects (like pot), physical body, sense organs, mind and
intellect or suukshma shariira or subtle body. By rejecting all the objects as
different from the subject, I will be able to arrive at the knowledge of who I
am: That will leave us with the
  knowledge that I am the witnessing consciousness:
1. different from all the witnessed objects
2. different from all the triads – knower-known and knowing –
pramaataa-prameya-pramANa
3. which remains changeless all the time – hence beyond time – nityaH or
eternal
4. and which is a conscious entity unlike the objects or saakshyam
5. most importantly that saakshii is myself – aham.

Knowing who am I is not complete knowledge but only saamaanya jnaanam or common
knowledge, since it leaves me with dvaita or duality as saakshii and saakshyam
– the witnessing consciousness and the witnessed unconsciousness. Yoga,
Saankhya, Nyaaya, VaisheShika, all stop this point. Hence the philosophy of who
am I enquiry is not really new. In addition, that enquiry still leaves us as
ignorant, since there is no advaita knowledge or vishesha jnaanam involved.
Advaita knowledge comes only via mahaavaakya upadesha, which provides the
identity relation between saakshii and the saakshyam with clear understanding
that I, the conscious entity, pervade even the saaskyam too, thereby leaving
behind all the saakshyam as mityaa. Therefore inquiry of –tat – and the
identity relation between tvam and tat – is important and that is provided
only by Vedanta. Nisargadatta Maharaj is an example where his teacher taught him
- tat tvam asi- statement. He was a
  gRihasthaa too. In contrast, if you read the writings of the Peace Pilgrim
(www.peacepilgrim.org - an American lady, who walked around in US in fifties
like parivraajaka preaching peace, appears to have understand the essential
meaning of tvam padaartham and teaches that in simple terms) but the writings do
not reflect that she has the substantive knowledge of jiiva, jagat and Iswara,
the essence of the mahaavaakya statement.

As a result of Nidhidhyaasana, what will happen? Nothing will happen. Only thing
that happens is I firmly get established in the knowledge that I am sat chit
ananda swaruupa, and I understand that all actions are happening in my presence.
Others think I am a kartaa or doer but I remain akarthaa or non-doer, in spite
of very many dynamic actions that benefit the society at large. Praarabda will
flow as it is destined to be and interaction with the world also continues as
before. The only difference is I do not miss myself, that is, I keep that
knowledge all the time, while all transactions with the world will go on while I
am enjoying myself as myself – aatmani eva atmaanaa tuShTaH. These are called
aatma kriiDa and aatma rati. Yes, my attitude towards the life situations will
change. I see the beauty in everything – order in everything. I see some
people complaining all the time, while some put-up with inconveniences, and some
cause others to
  complain; all are within the order. Advaitins and dvaitins will continue to
argue, while Nayyayikas logically trying to establishe the illogicality of
multiple aatmaas or conscious entities that are eternal and all pervading
(nithaH and sarvagataH); all this is within the order. We have some people
trying to blow up everything and other trying to counter that process – both
within the order. People will be born, they grow, enjoy and or suffer and become
old and die – generations come and generations go – All within the order.
Once I am fully established in my own nature or in my swaruupa – I see myself
everywhere and everything in me, since my nature is existence-consciousness
which is limitless. Nothing will ever affect me. All I see is the incredible
order and beauty in the universe from micro organisms to macro organisms, from
very fundamental particles to gigantic galaxies, all within the order. Small
insects crawling on the floor as if
  there is nothing more important than what they are doing, while humans are
worried about how to cope up with melt-down of the stock market, or Dubai having
debit problems – all fascinating and incredible drama of life. Ten years from
now all these problems become unimportant, since we will be more preoccupied
with the equally unimportant problem of that day.  How inert material assembled
intelligently becomes so dynamic in the very mere presence of the consciousness
is mind-boggling. The life in an inert or insentient body making so dynamic,
repairing itself and even reproducing itself into many, is the miracle of all
miracles. The moment it leaves the body, Shankara says, it becomes so unholy
that even wife does not want to be near that- gativati vaayou dehaapaaye
bhaaryaa bibhyati tasmin kaaaye.  - No, I do not need someone dropping ash or
make things appear or disappear as miracle. No, I cannot do all that. The
greatest miracle I see is the inert
  body can eat, breath, digest, and reject and move around and also sometimes
think these things – that is the wonder of all wonders. I see happening all
the time wherever I look, yet everyone takes that as granted.  Thus there is a
perfect order every where. All we need is to stand apart as saakshii and have
the wisdom to see.  Everything is the way it should be and it is; even though
every body will be complaining that it is not the way they want it or that it is
not the same as before; even that complaining is part of the order too. If one
looks at Socrates writings we will find he was complaining exactly the same way
as we are complaining now about the younger generation.  Nothing has changed.
Thousand of years ago people were concerned about the security of their kith and
kin; same thing now, and same things will be happening thousand years from now.
All this is within the order. Einstein was asked how they are going to fight the
world war III. He
  said I am not sure, but I know for sure how they are going to fight the world
war IV; with sticks and stones. Star-wars remind us the human nature taken to
the stars.  That is part of human mind, and this is also within the order. Life
moves forward to keep everything in dynamic status quo. We recognize His hands
in everything, His signature in every movement. His glory in every smile of a
child and in every barking of a dog – Hence Krishna says:

vidyaa vinaya sampaanne braahmaNe gavi hasthini,
sunicaiva shvapaake ca panDitaaH samadarshinaH|

One who understands the truth, looks at Brahmin, cow, elephant, dog or even dog
eater with the same vision of equanimity, since substantive of all is nothing
but Him only - thus he cannot but see His signature in all of them. That is the
underlying order in the universe, in all things and beings. Equanimity for the
whole creation becomes natural as one basks in the infinite wisdom permeating
everywhere. That is what firm abidance in the knowledge of -I am that- implies.
That is bhakti, that is sharaNaagati or prapatti as Shankara says Bhakti in
vivekachUDAmaNi as – swaswruupaanusandhaanam bhaktirityabhidhiiyate or
swaatmatatvaanusandhaanam baktirityapare jaguH|| as contemplation and abidance
on one’s own true nature, where saakshii and saakshyam have become one, the
advaita jnaanam, resulting in seeing myself as the essential self in all and
everything in myself; sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarvabhuutanica aatmani; while
I remain as unqualified – I
  am neither saakshii nor saakshyam – but substantive of both.

With this, discussion on the essence of jnaana yoga and self –realization is
over.

We will discuss now some of the aspects that were missed before in relation to
the mahaavaakya, tat tvam asi, that involves tat and asi aspects in the identity
relation although they are implied in the above discussions.

Hari Om!
Sadananda

Namaste to all.

taitt up. 2.9.1 says that words turn back along with the mind, failing to reach Brahman (yato vAco nivartante aprApya manasA saha). Shri Shankara points out in shloka 10 of his dashashlokI that none of the words such as ‘one’, ‘absolute’ , etc., can be used to denote brahman. The shloka is as below:--

    “It is not one; how can there be a second different from it? It has neither absoluteness nor non-absoluteness. It is neither void nor non-void since it is devoid of duality. How can I describe that which is established by the entire Vedanta!”

In his commentary on this shloka in siddhAntabindu, madhusUdana sarasvati says:--

One is what is capable of being counted as one. A second is what is capable of giving rise to the cognition of a second relative to it. When there is no one, how can there be a second? A second is what implies a third, etc.

 Objection: But by the sruti “One only, without a second” (Cha.Up. 6.2.1), oneness is postulated.

Answer: No. It is said (in the above shloka)—nor even absoluteness. Absoluteness is oneness. That statement in the sruti—one only, without a second--  is also due to avidyA. (When the sruti says “One only, without a second”, it is only repeating the general notion in the world which is due to avidyA. Even absoluteness cannot be postulated in respect of the AtmA because that is also a relative term). Then can it be said that if the sruti does not really declare the oneness of the AtmA, it follows, on the basis of the means of knowledge such as perception, that there is definitely multiplicity?

 The answer is—No. Not even non-absoluteness. Non-absoluteness is ‘being many’. This follows from the sruti statements such as, “There is no diversity whatsoever here” (Br. Up. 4.4.19), “One only, without a second” (Cha. 6.2.1), “Now therefore the instruction, not this, not this” (Br. Up. 2.3.6).

 Obj: In that case, since everything is denied, there is only void.

 The answer is, no. It is not a void. “If any one considers Brahman as non-existent, then he himself becomes non-existent. (Because Brahman is none other than his own real nature). If any one knows Brahman as existing, then they (the knowers of Brahman) consider him as existing” (tai. Up. 2.6.1), Brahman is Reality, Consciousness and Infinite” (tai. Up. 2.1.1), By the shrutis starting from “O dear boy, this was only existence in the beginning” (Cha. 6.2.1), and up to “All this world has this as the self, it is the realty, it is the AtmA, that thou art” (Cha. Up. 6.8.7) the reality of the AtmA is declared; it is the substratum of all illusions, and it is where all negation culminates (it cannot be negated at all).

 Obj: Then it would mean that the AtmA has the qualities of reality, knowledge, etc.

 The answer is, no, because it has been said that it is not non-void. (Non-void means ‘not empty’ i.e.  there is some thing on it such as a quality. Or in other words, it has some quality. So by the double negative ‘not non-void’ it is meant that it does not have any quality). While by the two terms ‘one’ and ‘without a second’ the existence of any thing else of the same species or a different species is denied, by the term ‘only’ (eva) all differences such as the difference between a quality and the possessor of a quality are denied. The reason for all these is given as—‘because of being devoid of duality’. What is divided into two is ‘dual’. The state of being dual is duality. It has been said in the VArtika: “What is divided into two is said to be ‘dual’ and such a state is called ‘duality’ (Br. up. VArtika. 4.3.186) . Where there is no duality or the state of being divided into two, that is non-duality. This is the literal meaning. As the sruti says, “Like water, one, the seer and free from duality” (Br. Up. 4.3.32). Since it is only the knowledge of the counter-correlative that is the cause of easily becoming aware of the absence of some thing, and since duality has been accepted as indeterminable, denial is quite logical because the objects are knowable through the means of knowledge such as perception. (This sentence is explained in the note below).

(Note. The last sentence is in refutation of an earlier objection that, as a rule it is only a thing that is known by some valid means of knowledge to exist somewhere that can be denied somewhere else. In order to deny the existence of a snake in a particular place the person denying must know what a snake is. But it is not necessary that he should have seen a real snake. It is enough if he has seen the picture of a snake somewhere.  The objection raised is that the world is non-existent according to advaita and there is no point in denying the presence of a non-existent thing like the horn of a hare. The answer is that the world is not totally non-existent. The advaita view is that the world is neither real nor unreal. Moreover, it has been accepted as having empirical reality. The objects in the world can be known through the means of knowledge such as perception, inference, etc. Only their absolute reality is denied. So the denial is quite justified.)  

Obj: In that case please indicate such an AtmA by pointing it out with the finger.

Answer: It is not possible; it has been said, “How can I describe”. ‘How’ indicates impossibility. Being non-dual it cannot become an object of speech. The srutis, “He explained without words” (Nr.Uttara Tapani Up. 7), “That from which words return without attaining it, along with the mind” (tai. Up.  2.4.1), “You cannot know the knower of knowledge” (Br. Up. 3.4.2), indicate this. If it is asked, how can vedAnta be the valid means of knowledge if the AtmA cannot become the object of speech, the answer is: Even though the AtmA is not an object, ignorance about it is destroyed by a mere vRitti of the mind of the form of the AtmA. This is expressed by the term ‘That which is established by the entire Vedanta’. The shrutis such as, “It is known to him to whom it is not an object of knowledge; he who thinks he knows it does not know. It is unknown to those who think they know it well, and known to those who know that they do not know it (as an object)” (Kena. 2.3), “That which is not comprehended by the mind, but that by which the mind is said to comprehend, know that alone to be Brahman and not that which is worshipped” (Kena. 1.6), show that the AtmA is not an object. Thus it is established that when avidyA is destroyed by the vRitti in the form of the indivisible Atman generated by the statements of vedAnta, all the sufferings that are imagined because of avidyA come to an end, and one remains as supreme bliss, having attained the ultimate aim.  

S.N.Sastri

Dear Friends:

I have been reading some of the posts but have been too busy to participate.
Thank you to brilliant exponents of Advaita Vedanta. Radhe-ji posted this this
beautiful and informative post and you will find it most wonderful.

http://luthar.com/gratitude-and-divine-grace/

Namaste and love to all
Harsha

Dear Moderators,

Thanks a lot for your positive response.  I would also like to have another book
"Prapancha Sara Samgraha" by Shri Girvanendra Saraswathi which is also offline
in Digital Library.

Kindly send the mentioned books when the site is online.  We have a firewall at
our office server that prohibits the downloads.

regs and thanks in advance.
sriram

--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "advaitins" <advaitins@...> wrote:
>
> The Digital Library of India has a scanned copy. The site is down presently.
Will try to download it when accessible.
>
> --- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "Venkata Sriram" <sriram_sapthasathi@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear revered members,
> >
> > I am looking for "Dahara Vidya Prakasika" by Shri Paramasivendra Saraswati,
the guru of Shri Sadasiva Brahman.
> >
> > Kindly let me know where can i get that book.
> >
> > regs,
> > sriram
> >
>

In three verses for pratasmaranam, Adi Sankara brings out the entire
essence of the Vedantic teaching. Though there are a number of pratasmarana
slokas or prayers for chanting in the morning,most of them are associated with
attributes. A rare pratasmarana stotra in the form of three verses given by Adi
Sankara to remember the Advaita Svarupa, in which he brings out the entire
essence of Vedanta. They invoke the higher essential nature called Atma Tattvam,
the real 'I'.

      Sankara, in the first and third verses, has established the existence of
the only reality -- that jivatma and paramatma are one and the same, and the
world or anatma has perceived form only. In the second verse, Acharya deals with
the knowledge  of the Advaita Tattva and the means of attaining that knowledge.
The stotra concludes with the phalasruti that mere parayanam or reading of the
slokas itself will lead one to moksha.

      I request you to listen this Pratasmarana stotram of Adi Sankara.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=dr.goli%20AND%20mediatype%3Aaudio

Jnaana yoga and Self-Realization - VI

The self-knowledge alone removes the self-ignorance.  The self-ignorance is
ignorance of myself. This is the first and fundamental problem and sometimes
referred to as muula avidya, primordial ignorance, in order to distinguish the
ignorance of say objective sciences, such as ignorance of chemistry, physics,
etc. This fundamental ignorance causes secondary problems; and there lies the
samasaara. The classical example is the ignorance of a rope lying in the alley. 
However, that ignorance of an object result in mistaking the object as a snake
due to similarities in the attributes gathered.  This is a secondary effect of
ignorance. This further cascades into other problems; fear, anxiety, insecurity,
and increase in blood pressure, and action in terms of running away from the
perceived snake to protect oneself, etc. Innocent rope has nothing to do with
any of these.  This error is called subjective projection (technically called
praatibhaasika). Although
  the snake perception is subjective, the actions that result as a result of
subjective notion are objectively experienced including running away from the
scene. In contrast to this there are also objective errors or vyaavahaarika
errors. Typical examples are mirage water or clear crystal appearing as red when
placed on or near a red cloth, appearance of sunrise and sunset, etc.  The
appearance of mirage water where there is only dry sand arises due to objective
factors which are nothing to do with the perceiver, the subject.  It arises due
to the reflection of sunrays at a glancing angle.  The two errors can be stated
as – I see it, therefore it is (as in the subjective error case) – It is,
therefore I see it (as in the objective error case).  Both errors involve taking
something other than what they are, atasmin tat budhiH, and they are called by
Shankara as adhyaasaH. In the subjective errors, once I learned by subsequent
operation that it is rope
  and not a snake, there will be no further perception of snake of that rope.
Hence all the secondary reactions will also be removed, not necessarily
immediately, but slowly. The rapid palpitations of the heart that occurred on
the vision of snake may die down slowly after recognizing that it is not a snake
but a rope. On the other hand, the objective errors will continue as appearances
even after knowing the truth behind the appearances.  We can differentiate the
two errors – subjective error as jiiva sRiShTi or created by the human mind,
and objective errors as Iswara sRiShTi or created by the global mind. Hence, the
objective errors, which remain even after knowing the truth behind the
appearances, will be admired as part of Iswara vibhuuti or glory of Iswara. Both
subjective and objective errors play a role in the self-realization – one
sublimated as result of knowledge, while the other admired as Iswara shRiShTi or
liila.

Similarly, the ignorance of one’s own self or self-ignorance can lead to
secondary problems. Since I do not know myself (or know just enough about
myself), I take myself what I am not as myself and then suffer the consequence
of that mistaken identity. This is called misapprehension. Ignorance of myself
is non-apprehension, and taking myself ‘what I am not’ as myself is
misapprehension. These are normally referred to as aavaraNa and vikshepa;
ignorance ‘as though’ covering the knowledge of myself is aavaraNa and
identifying with the plurality as ‘I am this’ is vikshepa.

How does this identification of myself, the subject, with what I see, the
object, occur?  A simple example illustrates our normal experience. I was lying
down on a lazy-boy chair in an air conditioned room after scrumptious meals, and
for entertainment started watching a movie on TV. The movie became interesting
as I watched. As in a typical Indian movie, after the hero and heroin performed
all their duets and all that, they got separated by fate, and they were running
in a hot sun, in a desert, without food or drink for days to save their lives
from the gangsters surrounding them from all directions. I am puffing, panting
and sweating, with tears running down my eyes, watching desperately whether the
hero and heroin are going to make it or not. I forgot completely where I am and
who I am, and forgot even that I am watching an Indian movie where hero and
heroin have to live happily ever after, and I identify myself intensely with the
two characters in
  the story, who are running in a desert in a hot sun. Their limitations have
become my limitations. I forgot that it is just the shades of light and darkness
dancing on the TV screen. I am comfortably sitting in a lazy-boy chair in an air
conditioned room after full meals. Neither I am in the hot sun in desert without
food and drinks, nor the actors who played as hero and heroin are really
suffering in the hot sun without food and drinks. Yet, in those moments, my
suffering is real and a box full of wet tissue paper in the waste basket is a
direct proof.  Just by forgetting myself and identifying with the characters on
the TV screen, I can undergo so much suffering, what to mention about the
suffering one can go through by not knowing who I am, and taking myself to be
this body, mind and intellect as myself.

The identification starts taking this physical body as I am, and subsequently
the mind and the intellect as I am. The attributes of body, mind and intellect,
BMI, became my attributes and their limitations as my limitations. At body level
I take myself to be mortal, at mind level I take myself to be unhappy and at the
intellect level I take myself to be ignorant of the rest of the world. I tried
to solve these three fundamental limitations by pravRitti and nivRitti,
acquiring things that are conducive for their happiness and getting rid of
things that cause their discomforts. Thus attachments and aversions, raaga and
dhveShas, start accumulating with resulting vaasanaas or tendencies accumulating
life after life – all in the desperate attempt in making myself – immortal,
knowledgeable and limitless – satyam, Jnaanam and anantam. Hence Vedanta comes
to my rescue declaring I am trying to solve a problem where there is no problem-
as we discussed
  earlier.

We are all familiar with the above scenario of how I got into this state that I
am trying to get out. Most important to bear in mind is there are two aspects
that are involved, and this should be clear. 1. The fundamental is the ignorance
of myself, which is beginning-less like any other ignorance.  2. The next is the
ignorance born vaasanaas that I have been accumulating life after life. Total
account is sanchita, and the ones that I brought to exhaust in this life is
praarabda and the new ones that I accumulate while living here is aagaami. Thus
we have ignorance and the ignorance caused vaasanaas.

The nature of ignorance is, it is anaadi or beginning less, but with the
knowledge, it gets eliminated. Knowledge and ignorance are like light and
darkness. They are diagonally opposite to each other. Just as the moment a light
is turned on, the darkness in the room is eliminated.  It is direct and
immediate. Similarly via inquiry along the lines specified by Vedanta, the
ignorance of myself goes away with the knowledge. It is also direct and
immediate.  Once the ignorance gone, IT CANNOT COMEBACK AGAIN – yat gatvaa na
nivartante taddhama paramam mama. If it comes back, then it will have now aadi
or beginning for ignorance again, which is not possible. Now let us carefully
apply the discussion we had in the previous posts.  Once I understand that I am
pure light of consciousness that is all pervading and that these BMI are just
upaadhis (like pot walls for pot), by analyzing and inquiring into the essence
of mahaavaakya – tat tvam asi, I now know,
  who I am.  I have UNDERSTOOD that I am not this body, not this mind and not
this intellect but I am pure witnessing consciousness which is the same in all
pervading consciousness, since scriptures says you are the THAT. As JK puts it -
It is an understanding as an understanding as a fact not just as understanding
as understanding as a thought. This understanding as soon as it rises, like
darkness removed by a light instantaneously, it removes ignorance immediately
and directly.

The mahaavaakya, tat tvam asi, understanding involves two aspects. 1. It is an
understanding that I am is full and complete, satchidaananda, without any
limitations; that is the full implication of the tat tvam asi –statement.  2.
The second aspect of this understanding is to understand that nothing else is
required for me to understand.
I am the light of consciousness reflecting even the thought of ‘I understood
tat tvam asi’. This is beautifully expressed in Kena, when the student first
screams out – I UNDERSTOOD, then he hesitates that the teacher may
misinterpret his statement that he understood as conceptualized thought – NO,
I UNDERSTAND IT NOT – then again he hesitates that the statement does not
represent the truth – NOT THAT I DONOT UNDERSTAND IT – naaham manye,
suvedeti, no na vedeti, veda ca| The problem is inherent with nature of this
subjective knowledge of the subject itself– yato vaacho nivartante apraapya
manasaa saha – says Vedanta – the words and mind cannot reach there –
words and mind operate predominately in the objective world and cannot describe
the subject which cannot be objectified nor that understanding of oneself by
oneself using  - aatmanaa atmaanam aatmaiva pasyati – oneself only sees
oneself by oneself.

Now what happens after this understanding?  No, there won’t be any flash
lights flashing all over my face or there will be some hallo rising behind the
head as you see in pictures. Only difference is, now I am all happy all by
myself, since that is my nature. I will not be putting a face (in India it is
called caster-oil face) as though I am carrying the whole world on my shoulders.
Expression of inner joy becomes natural since it cannot contain itself. Other
than that, I will be compassionate, where compassion is required; and I will be
angry where anger is required; and ready to shed tears where they are required
and sympathetic where sympathy is required. I may still get a pat here and kick
there; some praising me and some criticizing me. That is all part of the drama
of life.  For others, I look just as before; perhaps they notice that I am less
agitated or less worried or less angry, since they cannot differentiate real
from acting real. No, I am
  not going to do any tom tom that I am a jnaani, since they do not believe it
anyway, since, as I said, they do not see any hallow after becoming a jnaani.
Besides, why should I go and declare to anybody that I was stupid before by
taking the inert body as I am (ignoring the fact that everybody is in the same
boat).

However, from the point of myself, I am full and complete, and nothing else I
need for me to be happy. Things may still come on the way and those that come
will go also. Blood pressure will still be there, knee problems will still
remain, and sugar problem still remain – and one can have throat cancer or
hand that may have to be amputated, etc.  Those are the natural problems of the
matter, therefore it should not matter. They may cause some inconveniences at
the BMI level. I will still fell pain and hunger at BMI level. But none of the
BMI problem will affect me as I have understood that I am none of them. They are
all in me but I am not in them. That is the clean understanding of my true
nature. Hence Shankara says:

yogaratova bhogaratova sangaratova sangha vihiinaH|
yasyH brahmani ramate chittam nandati nandati nadatyeva||

One may be a yogi or one may be bhogi, a man in downtown, one may be associated
with people or one may be in the caves of Himalayas all by himself. It is not
where he is what he does where his mind is reveling. He mind is always tuned to
aham brahmaasmi and reveling in that understanding in whatever he does or does
not do.

With this understanding of what understanding is all about, now let us look at
the common problems a saadhak faces in this realization. Major common problem as
we discussed exhaustively is not appreciating the intended meaning of ‘tvam’
padaartham. I assume tvam stands for the egotistical ‘I’ rather than
witnessing consciousness that I am. Hence questions, how I am be that all
pervading reality?  That is blasphemy some dvaitins even declare. Therefore a
shift in understanding of the meaning of ‘tvam’ is required before the
mahaavaakya can be understood in all its glory. Here doubts arise in not
appreciating the correct meaning for tvam – padaartham. Hence Shravana and
manana, constant listening to the scriptures and reflecting on them are the only
means to solve this problem. Discussions about the issues are vehicles for
reflection and for clarification of the thoughts. That understanding takes place
by constant awareness of myself by using
  discriminative faculty by shifting my attention to the witnessing consciousness
than witnessed or objectified ego. The viveka and vairaagya, both are involved
in shifting my attention to the reflecting light of consciousness that I am from
the contents of the thoughts that arise in the mind including the egotistical
thoughts as I am this and this. That includes I am great spiritual seeker or I
am great bhakta or even I am the humblest person in the world. All complexes,
worries, anxieties, and assertions rest with the ego only that involves taking
tvam as this BMI.   Even if such thoughts arise, I have to be vigilant enough to
keep shifting to the witness of even these thoughts. Then they will subside
unceremoniously. That is the saadhana required to understand tvam padaartha and
then to understand the mahaavaakya as I am that.

What is nidhidhyaasana then?

We discussed in the above two aspects involved with self ignorance. One is the
ignorance of my true nature. Self-Knowledge and only the self-knowledge will
remove that ignorance. We said that is immediate and direct once we understand
that we are the witnessing consciousness. Ignorance once removed will not come
back, EVER. Most of the Vedantins common complaint is that even though they
understand the truth, once they go into the world of transactions, the knowledge
does not seem to remain as they get carried away with the contents of the
thoughts. This is a universal problem.

Hence we discussed in detail about the two problems – 1. One is ignorance and
2. The other is the ignorance generated vaasanaas. Ignorance is removed by
knowledge – direct and immediate since they cannot coexist – that is what
aparokshaanubhuuti – as in - You are the 10th man - story. Knowledge removes
ignorance immediately but not the ignorance generated vaasanaas. This difference
has to be understood. Shree Sureswaraachaarya says vaasanaas are not the
ignorance but they are byproducts of the ignorance. They are avidyaa janita
vaasanaas, that are the vaasanaas caused by ignorance that I had before I
understood the facts. These vaasanaas are the habitual notions that formed life
after life due to the beginning-less ignorance. [By the by - Playing with the
word HABIT, Swami Dheeranandaji of Chinmaya Mission, Washington DC, says that
HABITS die hard. Even if one removes H, a-bit still remains. If one removes A,
bit still remains, if one remove b,
  it still remains, and only until the ego designated by little i is removed, the
truth t will not be fully revealed.] The knowledge removes the ignorance; the
habitual notions do not go. They can only go by habitual or constant awareness
that I am the light of consciousness that is reflecting the thoughts and not the
thought contents. This constant awareness of myself until all the habitual
notions get dissolved is, what is called, nidhidhyaasana. Now we can also
appreciate the previous statements that one has to take up sanyaasa, even after
knowledge, etc – all that means, in order to remove my habitual thinking due
to prior vaasanaas, I have to seek a place where I can do that constant
reflection of my true nature that I understood by Shravana and manana. 
Nidhydhyaasana is required as part of self-realization for shifting my attention
continuously what Krishna calls as abhyasena tu kounteya vairaagyana ca
gRihNate-  detachment from the contents of
  the thoughts and practice of shifting my attention to the light of
consciousness that I am. Vaasanaas caused by ignorance can be removed by
knowledge generated counter vaasanaas that can neutralize them. Here is a verse
from Naiskarmya siddhi by Sureswara:
baadhitatvaat avidyaayaa vidyaam saa neva baadhate|
tadvaasaanaa nimittatvam yaanti vidyaasmRiterdhruvam|| - I-38
Once the ignorance has been eliminated by knowledge by shravanam and mananam, it
cannot again come back and eliminate the knowledge. If someone experiences again
suffering or samsaara, after sharavanam and mananam, it is not because of
ignorance which has already been eliminated but due to the vaasanaas that were
formed as a result of ignorance that existed before the dawn of the knowledge.
Vaasanaas form the habitual impressions left behind due to ignorance. The remedy
therefore is not that I HAVE TO TAKE BHOUTIKA SANYAASA. One can take if that is
helpful. The truth is, I need to bring back into my memory, again and again,
what I have understood before, namely, I am the pure consciousness because of
which I am conscious of this world of plurality. They are all in me but I am not
in them. None of them can affect me, the ever present light of consciousness.
They rise in me subsist in me and go back in to me. I am eternal, while they
come and go. This
  constant shifting in awareness into my true nature and looking at the world as
nothing but as my own vibhhuti is the nidhidhyaasana.  This shift becomes
natural, as I shift more and more, until I firmly abide in the knowledge that is
gained already. Initially, I get lost in the worldly thoughts, even though I
understood that I am the light of consciousness. However, as the habits die
down, I am back to myself more and more and until I firmly abide in myself. 
That is what dRiDaiva niShTaa or brahma niShTaa or firm abidance in the
knowledge that I am – I am – I am, free from any of this – this and this.

That jnaana vaasanaas or more correctly called jnaana smRiti will remove the
habitual notions formed by ignorance.  Shree Sureswara says when I get firmly
established in the jnaana niShTa or constant awareness of myself, the knowledge
of awareness of myself raises continuously, and spontaneously, rather than
sporadically only during the class. This is also what Bhagavan Ramana says in
terms of ‘aham aham tayaa spurati hRit swayam’  - I am – I am – etc
spontaneously raises in the core of my personality.  Thus as even as the avidyaa
vaasanaas raise jnaana vaasanaas will also be automatically invoked. This tug of
war goes on through out the life as one lives through the life.  Abiding in the
knowledge becomes natural as the vaasanaas become weaker. Hence, avidyaa
vaasanaas can be handled by jnaana smRiti which is called nidhidhyaasanam.  That
Jnaana smRiti becomes natural for an evolved Vedantin. This is what abhyaasa and
vairaagya or constant
  practice and renunciation involved. There are no short cuts here.
  How long it takes? It depends on how strong the habits are, how disciplined my
mind is and how intensely or how frequently I bring back into my sphuraNa or
memory the realization that I am pure light of consciousness, and that all this
and this and this are mithyaa only. The more and the more I live in that
understanding the less and less the habitual vaasanaas have distractive role.
Hence right living, whether taking sanyaasa or not, will be helpful to keep the
mind in that understanding. It is not for jnnana but for jnaana niShTaa- firm
abidance in that knowledge or what swami Paramarthanandaji calls as
internalizing the teaching. One can say that one who has understood is jnaani,
and one who abides in that understanding is jiivanmukta – recognizing that
these are artificial designations and it better to dispense them; for one very
good reason, we can never know others state of understanding. Any further
differentiations in jiivanamukta status are
  also unnecessary complications of the simple truths. Once one has understood,
then how far he abides in that knowledge depends on how strong his
vaasaana-pulls are. Only the individual will know and others can never know for
grading another person as jnaanai but not jiivanmukta, etc. It depends on how
far he understands the truth of himself and abides in that truth and does not
depend on aashrama, birth, caste, creed, or place of origin, since all these
pertain to BMI, which one is trying to recognize as I am not that. Hence
Shankara says in VivekachuuDaamaNi:
jaati niiti kula gotra duuragam, naama ruupa guNa doSha varjitam|
desha kaala vishayaati varti yet, brahma tatvam asi bhaava yaatmani||
One is free from jaati, niiti, kulam, gotram, naamam, ruupam, guNam, space, and
time and objects – since all of them belong to physical body. While the
understanding is that I am not the physical body. Infiniteness is my essential
nature where none of these are real.

Now let us look at the statements:

1. I have understanding, but I have no knowledge, or jnaanam.
2. I have understanding, but I have no realization, I am not a jiivan mukta
3. I have understanding, but I have no experience or Brahma anubhava.
4. I have understanding, but I am not liberated or I have no moksha.

All the above are four-fold powerful confusions that we get into. First the
understanding has to be clear, since it requires the understanding that I am
pure witnessing consciousness that is different form the BMI – that is the
nature of the tvam padaartham. Once I understood, then the identity implied in
the mahavaakyam or aphoristic statement has to be understood without any doubts.
That understanding is knowledge. And If I have that knowledge I am jnaani since
I know who I am now, and that jnaanam eliminates the self-centered ignorance.
Since in this understanding I am identifying myself as the totality, Brahman,
There is nothing more to be done after this understanding. That fact has to be
understood as part of understanding that I am Brahman. Since Brahman is
infinite, understanding of the mahaavaakya – tat tvam asi – is understanding
that I am Brahman, therefore free from any limitations. I am jiivan mukta. That
abiding knowledge that I am
  Brahman will not remain due to the pressure of vaasanaas that were accumulated
before the dawn of knowledge. These vaasanaas can only be eliminated by constant
reflection of the fact – or jnaana smaraNa – of aham brahmaasmi and
therefore everything else is only mithyaa. The more I recapture of true nature,
the more I get firmly established in that knowledge until I become brahma
niShTaa. That is same as jiivanmukta. There is no other Brahman anubhava – I
am longing for experience of Brahman, then that Brahman that I experience is not
Brahman since any experienced Brahman is only an object of experience. On the
same token I cannot meditate on Brahman since the Brahman that I meditate upon
become non-Brahman, since it is an object of meditation.

We have so far concentrated from the point of tvam and arriving at the
knowledge. For completeness we will analyze the tat padaartham and the validity
of the identity relation.

Hari Om!
Sadananda

The Digital Library of India has a scanned copy. The site is down presently.
Will try to download it when accessible.

--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "Venkata Sriram" <sriram_sapthasathi@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear revered members,
>
> I am looking for "Dahara Vidya Prakasika" by Shri Paramasivendra Saraswati,
the guru of Shri Sadasiva Brahman.
>
> Kindly let me know where can i get that book.
>
> regs,
> sriram
>

Dear revered members,

I am looking for "Dahara Vidya Prakasika" by Shri Paramasivendra Saraswati, the
guru of Shri Sadasiva Brahman.

Kindly let me know where can i get that book.

regs,
sriram

It is this Agni that was extolled as Rudra, Vishnu, Narayana, Vak in Veda. The two tattvas ie., vyakta & avyakta rupas are of Agni only and hence rg veda declares "ekam sat viprAh bahudhAh vadanti". It is this Agni tattva that the wise one behold as Many. Whatever form of devata in rg veda, whether Rudra, Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Matarisvan, Garuda (Suparna) etc. these are the different forms of one cardinal principle ie., Agni.

praNAms Sri Sri Ram prabhuji

Hare Krishna

If you are calling THAT parabrahma tattva as 'agni', then prabhuji I am completely with you.  Because it is that paramabrahma tattva only sometimes called rudra, sometimes called nArAyaNa, indra, agni, hiraNyagarbha etc.  I hope 'agni' here does not mean the celestial beings like vAyu, varuNa etc. in the AsthAnaM of Indra:-))  Because shruti itself says that these devata-s obey the orders of THAT...bheeshAsma vAtaH pavate, bhishodeti sUryaH, bheeshasmAdagnischendrasya..etc. And these devata-s could not do anything to even a piece of grass without the grace of THAT in the yaksha episode in shruti  and this pAvaka cannot burn the ever existing our Atma svarUpa...(nainaM dahati pAvakaH says geetAchArya)..So, here agni in the veda maNtra ultimately means agni tattva that is nothing but paramArtha tattva.

With this I too stop this discussion prabhuji.  Thanks for your time & patience.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

Dear Bhaskar,

It is very difficult to tap the "vision" of vedic seer because in order to step
into their shoes, one should understand the pulse of the seers, their vision,
their ecstasy etc.

So, in order words, it is the "vision" in the form of "ecstasy" of Seer which is
called "rasa" and hence shrutis declare "raso vai sah".

In order to tap this "rasa" of veda, understanding the pulse of Seer is very
important.

Several are the Rg vedic deities but the cardinal principle is Agni / Indra
around which the entire process of creation revolves.  Hence, Agni upasana was
given much importance during the vedic period.

It is this Agni that was extolled as Rudra, Vishnu, Narayana, Vak in Veda. The
two tattvas ie., vyakta & avyakta rupas are of Agni only and hence rg veda
declares "ekam sat viprAh bahudhAh vadanti".  It is this Agni tattva that the
wise one behold as Many.  Whatever form of devata in rg veda, whether Rudra,
Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Matarisvan, Garuda (Suparna) etc. these are the different
forms of one cardinal principle ie., Agni.

/////

During the process of creation, Parama Pususha rupa Agni enters into
the "Apah" (the Eternal Sacred Waters) and bears the "Seed of Creation". The
Paramatma when thus ready for Creation is called "APAH". Since, the Parama
Purusha rupa Agni bears
this APAH, he is called "apsumAn". It is this "APAH" bearing the Seed of
Creation, (Udaka devatas), creates the entire Cosmos. And hence, shruti declares
"Apo vai nArayaNah". Making the `nAra' / `udaka' as the medium, creates the
Universe and hence,
he is called "nArAyaNa".

////

The cardinal principle in the Purusha sukta is the Supreme Being in the form of
Yajna Purusha. The supreme being Adya puruSha in the form of Sacrifice has two
attributes : ie., uchita karma and anuchita karma.

The lusture that is get by performance of Tapas of uchita vaidika karmas is the
"Lakshmi" in accordance with Sastra and the modesty in the form of "lajja" of
non-perfomance of anuchita karma is the "hree".

It is these attributes (in other words patnIs), in the form of
Modesty of non-performance of anuchita karmas and Lustre / Brahma Tejas in the
form of Tapas are called "hrI" and "Lakshmi" in Sastra.

Shri Vashista Ganapati Muni and Brahmarishi Daivarata were of this opinion. And
with the blessings of Shri Muni, this is what i have understood.

With this i close this thread of discussion as this is of no use to our
discussion on advaita.

Kindly excuse me if i have crossed the Sastra Maryada.

with regs,
sriram


--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@...> wrote:
>
> Namaste Sri Bhaskar-ji,
>
> praNAms Sri Narayanan prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
>
> Does Sayana say it suits Sriman NarayaNa, the shanka-chakra Gadha-dhari?
> Now this personification I find it very difficult to understand.
>
> >  Even dvaitins for that matter would not say,  nArAyaNa should 'always'
> have four hands with all the weapons intact :-))  However, when the name
> nArAyaNa mentioned, without digging it deep as we, advaitins do, they say
> it is nArAyaNa who is sarva bhutAntargata paramAtma, i.e. Sri vishNu.
>
> The mantra-dhrashta could use the appropriate word of "purusha" only on at
> least seven occasions  in the suktam and without uttara-narayaNam used as
> apppendix to purusha-suktam, it is very teneous to tie purusha as
> shanka-chakra gadha-dhari.
>
> >  again, nArAyaNa's permanent identify cannot be always with 'four' hands
> & two legs...one of his names in vishNu sahasranAma is : anirdeshya
> vapushe namaH :-)) Just as a side question, dont you think these maNtra
> dhrashtA-s could have used an appropriate world in place of 'nail cutter',
> when they are seeing 'something' beyond the material tools :-))
>
> If you can, please also clarify, what exactly is the process of
> mantra-dhrashtam?  When Rsis say, Hrischa te lakshmmescha patnou, what
> probably could be their vision ?  two feminine forms etc. ?  Then why
> their form is not described?
>
> >  pardon me prabhuji, I cannot answer this question on behalf of these
> maNtra drashtAra-s, since I donot know what exactly their intention &
> state of their realization while seeing these maNtra-s in a sublime
> state...Anyway, form & saguNatva has been well defined in veda maNtra-s &
> different dArshanika-s taste this nector differently according to their
> philosophical background...is it not??
>
> With regards,
>  narayan
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>

Happy Geetha Jayanthi to our group
  This year we are celebrating Geetha Jayanthi on 28th November.
I request our group to celebrate "Happy Birth Day" to Geetha Mata.

   The Bhagavdgeetha is the divine word of Bhagavaan Sri Krishna,the supreme
Purushottama or God Himself, who is adored by the whole animate and inanimate
kingdom.It is the greatest treatise on personality development and for
excellence.Lord Krishna is the greatest expert in crisis management.

  The man who  listens Bhagavadgeetha in this month of Margasira , that too on
Geetha Jayanthi day obtains a residence in supreme abode of God.

   I request you to listen Bhagvadgeetha (CH 1)

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=dr.goli%20AND%20mediatype%3Aaudio

Dear Member,
Since I have not been able to find your name anywhere in this post,I am
addressing you as above.
Your post does not seem to have any relevance to advaita vedAnta. The Moderators
would like to request you not to send such posts.
Best wishes,
Chief Moderator


--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "void" <rgoteti@...> wrote:
>
> THE BOY WHO TRIED WALKING ON WATER
>
> Ramu had long heard the stories of an amazing family tradition. It seems that
his father, grandfather and great-grandfather had all been able to walk on water
on their 21st birthday. On that special day, they had walked across the lake to
the temple on the far side for their prayers.
>
> So when Ramu's 21st birthday came a round, he and his pal Raju took a boat out
to the middle of the lake, Ramu stepped out of the boat .... and nearly drowned!
Raju just barely managed to pull him to safety. Furious and confused, Ramu went
to see his grandmother.
>
> 'Grandma,' he asked, 'it's my 21st birthday, so why can't I walk across the
lake like my father, grandfather, and great grandfather?'
>
> Granny looked deeply into Ramu's troubled eyes and said, 'Because your father,
your grandfather and your great grandfather were born in December during winter,
when the lake is frozen, and you were born in July, you silly boy!
> Thank you
>

THE BOY WHO TRIED WALKING ON WATER

Ramu had long heard the stories of an amazing family tradition. It seems that
his father, grandfather and great-grandfather had all been able to walk on water
on their 21st birthday. On that special day, they had walked across the lake to
the temple on the far side for their prayers.

So when Ramu's 21st birthday came a round, he and his pal Raju took a boat out
to the middle of the lake, Ramu stepped out of the boat .... and nearly drowned!
Raju just barely managed to pull him to safety. Furious and confused, Ramu went
to see his grandmother.

'Grandma,' he asked, 'it's my 21st birthday, so why can't I walk across the lake
like my father, grandfather, and great grandfather?'

Granny looked deeply into Ramu's troubled eyes and said, 'Because your father,
your grandfather and your great grandfather were born in December during winter,
when the lake is frozen, and you were born in July, you silly boy!
Thank you

The unchanging 'I' that Advaitins apprehend in them is therefore the substratum which sustains the two pramAtAs during their ephemeral existence and bridges them across time.

praNAms MN prabhuji

Hare Krishna

And another way of saying this is,  the unchanding 'I' pervades these two pramAtA-s without attaching itself into any of these conditioned pramAtru-s...And this truth, the jnAni will come to know when he is nomore he but HE..That is the reason why shankara clarifies in geeta bhAshya :  The final pramANa indeed removes the very knowership of Atman.  

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

Dear Bhaskar ji,
Kaivalya Upanishat definitely describes Bhagavan Shiv (saguna form) in the mantra "Uma sahaayam parameshwaram ..." . In the preceeding mantra, the absolute nirguna form is 'described' - "achintayam avyaktam ananta roopam ..." .
Just my humble understanding.

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Yes, on the one hand,  it would explain the saguNa form of the parabrahman as parashiva & his wife uma...But as you know, when it comes to advaitic way of esoteric interpretation of these mantra-s, one can say 'uma' here is mAyA shakti of parabrahman and  with its help, parameshwaran does the creation for us to see this vyAvahArik world :-))

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

The fundamental principle in advaita is that pure consciousness, by itself, is not a cognizer. It can become a cognizer only through a vRitti of the mind.

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Yes, in the ultimate reality, the socalled individual soul is essentially brahman itself and NOT a cognizer.  The jnAni's realization is that he is eternally pure, self-known and devoid of all distinction of knower, knowledge and the object thereof.  This has been beautifully explained by shankara while commenting on the tattusamanvayAt sUtra.  He quotes three verses at the end of this sUtra commentary, the second one goes like this : The individual self is a cognizer only till the intuition dawns on the Atman to be sought after, but when He is sought out, the very cognizer himself will have become that Atman free from the evils of sin and the like.

Again, it is in this light only we have to understand shruti vAkya : There is no seer other than HE (br. up. 3-7-23) !!

Sri Sastri prabhuji, kindly correct me if I said anything wrong here.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

Dear Nair-ji,
I suppose your question is, what, according to advaita, is the process by which
we become aware of our states of mind such as happiness, sorrow, anger, etc.
This has been dealt with in VP.
The fundamental principle in advaita is that pure consciousness, by itself, is
not a cognizer. It can become a cognizer only through a vRitti of the mind. In
the case of external objects the mind needs the help of the external sense
organs to form a vRitti. But in the case of mental states such as happiness,
etc., the mind itself forms a vRitti of that nature. This vRitti is illumined by
consciousness and cognition of the happiness, etc., arises immediately. Such
cognition, without the aid of the sense organs, is known as kevala sAkShi
pratyaksha (direct cognition by the witness alone). VP makes it clear that even
for such a cognition a vRitti is essential.
           When VP speaks of the mind stretching out and taking the form of the
object, what is meant is only that the mind comes into contact with the object
through the eyes. When a sound is heard, the mind stretches out through the ear
and comes into contact with the sound. Sound has no form and so the statement
that the mind takes the form of the object cannot be taken literally when the
object of cognition is sound. The same applies to smell and taste also. What is
intended to be conveyed by the description of such a process is only that
consciousness needs a vRitti to become a cognizer and the mind needs the
external organs to form a vRitti in the case of external objects. In the case of
mental states such as happiness, the mind itself is in contact with the state
and so it can form a vRitti of the nature of happiness.
Here also the pramAtA is the mind with the reflection of consciousness as in the
case of external objects.
In view of the above I suppose the further questions do not arise. No pramANa is
necessary for the mind to contact its own state, as is necessary in the case of
external objects (where the external sense organs have to serve as pramANa).
Regards,
S.N.Sastri


--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "madathilnair" <madathilnair@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Sastriji,
>
> Thank you very much for your explanation based on VP.
>
> Let me accept it with respect to the process of one's 'seeing an external
object'.  Let us say pramAta in this case is the part of the mind within the
body with the reflection of consciousness on it.
>
> But, then, how can we account for our being aware of our own mind - I mean the
flow of thoughts? How can we define pramAta here? There are no pramAnAs in
operation now. Is it a part of the mind just being aware of other parts of it
with reflection of Consciousness on it? Does VP say anything about it?
>
> Even in 'seeing an external object', the pramANAs (sense organs - most
importantly eyes here) themselves are objects.  When I say "I see",the existence
of the pramANa  - the eyes - are immediately acknowledged.  That is knowledge
for which there is no need for any external pramANa.
>
> Can we therefore deduce that Consciousness itself is the ony pramANa both in
one's knowing one's mind as well as the external world of objects (since
pramANAs themselves are objects to something other than themselves)?  That
raises the possibility that one can be aware even without a body or mind. 
Aren't we all unconsciously trying to achieve just that in our quest for the
truth about ourselves?
>
> Sorry for the garbled thinking if I really sound garbled.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Madathil Naoir

--- In advaitin@yahoogroups.com, "Ananda" <awood@...> wrote:
>
>
> Namaste,
>
> All questions asked in science start by assuming a duality: between what
> knows and what is known. A knowing subject is assumed to be somehow
> different from an object known; and from this difference there results a
> questioning, of what the object is and how it can be known.
>
  Dear Mr Anand

  You have done a wonderful description of the known.Your understanding of the
known is good enough.You proved that even simple words can carry ideas worth
referring.Technical jargon is not necessary to understand simple things.

thank you
sekhar

Namaste,

All questions asked in science start by assuming a duality: between what knows and what is known. A knowing subject is assumed to be somehow different from an object known; and from this difference there results a questioning, of what the object is and how it can be known.

In everyone's experience, a variety of objects appear: through body, sense and mind. Through our bodies and their sense organs, other bodies are perceived, in a world of structured space. These bodies appear as material objects, each existing in particular, in its own part of space. A world of matter thus appears, made up of co-existing parts. Each part relates from its own place to other parts: thus making up an objective world, distributed in space.

This world of space is known through time, as mind's attention turns from one object to another. But as attention is thus turned, there is in mind no structured space, made up of co-existing parts. Mind's own experience is just process, made of states that pass in time. At every moment in each mind, a single state of mind occurs. No past nor any future state is present now. Mind's states don't ever co-exist, but each replace what went before.

As moments pass, states of perception, thought and feeling come and go. Through body's sensual functioning, perceived sensations show. They show in mind as passing states, interpreted by further states of thought and feeling. Through this interpretation, we take it that our thoughts and feelings speak to us, about a world made up of meaningful and valued objects. We take it that these objects are perceived in structured space, outside our inner processes of mental states that come and go in changing time.

As mental states replace each other, they occur successively, each one at its own time. Each state of mind occurs alone, at each present moment. In mind, no more than just one state is ever found, by anyone. We each experience unity, at every moment in our minds. How then could it be possible for different things to be experienced in the course of time, as mental states get changed?

To know that something showing now is different from another something shown before, some kind of knowing must stay present through the change. Some knowing presence must continue on through time. That knowing presence must remain, while previous states of mental process get replaced by later states.

That knowing presence is called 'consciousness'. It is that knowing principle which is found shared in common, by all the different states of knowing that appear and disappear in every changing mind. It is essentially implied in all perceptions, thoughts and feelings -- carried out through all our bodies and their senses, all of our conceiving minds. It is the common base on which communication is achieved, across our many differences of changing personality.

No matter where, no matter when, no matter through what instrument or faculty, consciousness is that which knows. It is that knowing subject before which all appearances are shown, through all that happens in the world and in our personalities. These happenings are nature's acts, producing part appearances of world perceived and thought and felt through partial personality.

In everyone's experience, as personality perceives and thinks and feels, a world appears to be made up of objects that are part of it. Each such object thus displayed is incomplete. There's more to it than what appears. What's shown of it is not enough. More needs to be discovered and then thought about, to find more truly what it is. It's something not quite rightly known; but rather something to be known, more clearly and less partially.

But then, how to achieve impartiality, so that true knowing may be clarified? There are two ways. One way is outward, through the construction of a pictured world, perceived by sense and thought by mind. The other way is inward, by asking back into the make-up of the picturing.

The outward way puts pictures together, from smaller pieces of perception. A complex world is pictured to be made of smaller objects, on the basis of assumptions and beliefs that are taken for granted in our minds. The inward way asks questions that reflect back into mind, so as to ask how far what we believe is true. To the extent that our beliefs are found to be wrong, they need a correction from which we may construct a better picturing.

As we keep putting pictures together, on the basis of accepted belief, we get accordingly involved with this doubtful picturing. In order to know objects better, we need sometimes to ask questions that reflect more deeply into mind, beneath blind habits of belief.

For such an inward questioning to work, the questioner must get reflected back, beneath involvement with the picturing. Reflecting there, into the depth of mind, a subjective detachment is attained. This is an inward detachment, of subjective knowing from objective picturing. By questioning thus inwardly, an impartial and clear knowing gets to be detached, from partialities and from confusions which our senses and our minds bring into all their pictures of an outside world.

Where knowing has thus been detached from picturing, it is essentially subjective. It is no act that's carried out by body, sense or mind, to show a pictured object. It's not the action of an instrument towards an object other than itself. It's not at all a changing act, performing any changing show that gets put on or taken off.

Instead, it is that purely knowing subject which is found unmixed, with any act or any object other than itself. It's that pure self whose very being shines unchanged, as knowing light. That light illuminates itself, through all appearances and disappearances of changing show. It knows itself, as its own true identity.

It's that self-shining consciousness which is each person's real self. It is that 'I' which is the same for everyone, beneath all changes and all differences of personality and world. In it, there's no duality, between what knows and what is known. It is at once the knowing self in each of us and the complete reality shown by all objects and all happenings throughout the entire world.

Ananda