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Gita Satsangh, Chapter 3 , Verses 3 through 5   Message List  
Reply Message #55410 of 56721 |
Re: Gita Satsangh, Chapter 3 , Verses 3 to 5 (Karma-Marga and Karma-Yoga)

Namaste Sri Sadanada-ji,


I don't have any disagreement with the conclusion presented in your post, but
there are some other statements that don't seem to go well with the conclusion.
I was wondering why this should be so and then I saw the reason for it. I think
there is a certain lack of distinction in your post between the goal of
Karma-Yoga and the condition of a person because of which Karma-Yoga has been
taught by the Lord. I shall try to bring out this distinction so that there may
be no discord between the statements and the conclusion. But first, let me
present the conclusion:

> In essence is what are important are 1. performance of
> dharmic acitons 2. attitude in action and 3. Spirit of
> yagna.

I agree with this conclusion. Now I shall comment on the statements that need
further clarification according to me.


> In B. S bhashya, Shankara while explaining sutra 1, says
> the karmas are not necessary for jnaana â€" what is
> necessary is saadhana chatuShTaya sampatti â€" how one
> gets that is immaterial.

True, because the topic of how one obtains sadhana chatushtaya is not the
subject matter of the Brahma Sutras. But the same Shankara Bhagavdpada says
elsewhere that the Path of Actions leads in an indirect manner to jnana since it
confers chitta-shuddhi or sadhana chatushtaya and thus leads to the Path of
Knowledge which is the direct means to Brahma-Jnana. Also, Advaita Makaranda too
says the same thing:

"(For they were) endowed with mind purified with continuous observation of
daily, occasional and obligatory duties resulting in manifestation of
discrimination, dispassion, the six fold wealth of mind-control etc. and desire
for liberation owing to which arose a desire to know the Self."


> Bhagavan has to come in the form of Krishna to reinterpret
> Vedas and explain to us that any action can become karma
> yoga if one does that action in the attitude of yagna.

Sri Krishna also says: "Better one's own duty, though devoid of merit, than the
duty of another well discharged. Better is death in one's own duty; the duty of
another is productive of danger." (BG.3.35). Therefore, the expression `any
action' doesn't fit unless it is further qualified by something else.


> If one performs any action with that attitude then the
> mind gets purified â€" chitta suddhi occurs since I only
> act but not react.
> .....
> and beauty of B. Gita is Krishna reinterpreting the
> Vedanta by saying any karma can be made to karma yoga
> by the performing any action in the attitude of yagna.

This state of mind, wherein one may perform ANY action, refers to the GOAL of
Karma-Yoga and not to the mental condition of a person on account of which
Karma-Yoga has been prescribed by the Lord.

Karma-Yoga is not taught to one who has already attained chitta-shuddhi. It is
taught to one whose mind has a natural tendency to go outward towards objects of
desire with the aim of making the person practice withdrawal of the mind from
objects (of desire) and learn to place it in the Self or Ishvara instead. The
ability to do so comes after long practice. In the beginning, one may not be
able to continuously offer the fruits of all actions to the Lord simply because
the mind often forgets about the Lord while performing actions; the offering of
the fruits to the Lord would be intermittent and one would have to be constantly
and consciously pulling the mind away from objects to make it rest on Ishvara
instead. Only after long practice there comes the stage when the resting of
actions in Ishvara becomes frequent and finally comes the stage when the person
can be steadfast in resting all his actions in the Self (or Ishvara).

What would happen to the person if during the beginning stages, he were to
perform ANY action, including prohibited actions, while the mind is still not
capable of continuously worshiping Ishvara in all his actions? He would surely
be accumulating more sins (or defects) thus defeating the purpose of Karma-Yoga.

When the Path of Action (Karma-Marga), with its prescriptions for avoiding the
accumulations of sins and defects, is already available as part of Vedic Dharma,
why would the Lord teach a risky option by recommending the performance of ANY
action during those stages when a man is still striving to attain
chitta-shuddhi? The Lord is not saying anywhere in the Gita that any action may
be performed during the stages of sadhana. Karma-Yoga has the prescriptions and
prohibitions of Karma-Marga as its support and substratum.


> Arjuna’s question is answered that he has to do his
> assigned obligatory duty and develop the chittasuddhi

Yes, this statement goes well with the instructions of the Lord. Obligatory
duties have to be necessarily performed. But it is not enough to perform
obligatory duties alone. The prohibitions of Karma-Marga have to be honored too;
otherwise, one will get into a vicious circle of performing obligatory duties to
counter the effects of past bad karma while at the same time accumulating new
bad karma on account of engaging in prohibited actions. And once it is admitted
that the prohibitions of the Dharma-Shastras are to be honored too, then the
entire Karma-Marga becomes applicable.

A small clarification: Karma-Marga is defined not by Purva Mimamsa alone but
also by the Dharma Shastras that have their base in the Vedas and which are
established by Purva Mimamsa as constituting Duty. There is a section in the
Purva Mimamsa Sutras for establishing that the Manu Smriti comes from Vedic
sentences. Thus, when we talk about prescriptions and prohibitions of
Karma-Marga, the entire Dharma Shastra along with Purva Mimamsa constitutes the
Path.


Warm regards,
Chittaranjan






Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 pm

chittaranjan...
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Message #55410 of 56721 |
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Shree Neelakantan – PraNams   Needless to say I concur with the contents of your post.   Arjuna’s question was clear He thought he had a choice between ...
kuntimaddi sadananda
kuntimaddisada Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2012
3:44 am

Namaste Sri Sadanada-ji, ... I agree with this conclusion. Now I shall comment on the statements that need further clarification according to me. ... True,...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2012
1:57 pm

Namaste dear Chittaji: Your articulation of your understanding of "Karma Yoga" and "Karma Marga" is quite compelling and insightful. I also want to say that...
ramvchandran Offline Send Email Feb 15, 2012
12:58 pm

Namaste Sri Ramchandran-ji, ... Thank you for your kind words - both here and in the other post (Msg NO.55415). ... I am open to accommodate them in the areas...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 17, 2012
8:53 am

Namaste Sri Neelakantan-ji, We seem to be agreeing that Karma-Marga has to be necessarily adhered to for obtaining chitta-shuddhi since one cannot engage in...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2012
8:23 am

Namaste Sri Neelakantan-ji, I forgot one point in my previous post: the importance of prohibitions as laid down in Karma-Marga for ensuring that chitta-shuddi...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2012
9:20 am

Namaste Chittaranjan-ji, Thank you for the detailed reply. We seem to be agreeing in an elaborate manner :-) As you point out, karma can be categorized into...
pkayen Offline Send Email Feb 14, 2012
7:18 pm

Namaste Sri Neelakantan-ji, At the end of your previous post, you had remarked that you would like to `leave it at that' which perhaps indicates that you do...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 17, 2012
7:02 am

... Hari Om Shri Chittaranjanji, Pranaams! On the rise of which viveka. Then what further is to be known by following GYAna-marga. In verse 3.3 AcAryaji...
Br. Pranipata Chaitanya
pranipatacha... Offline Send Email
Feb 17, 2012
3:57 pm

Namaste Sri Pranipatacharya-ji, ... As you say below, it is only steadfastness. ... Yes, i agree. This steadfastness is Naiskarmya-siddhi. I had mentioned this...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 17, 2012
5:06 pm

... Hari Om Shri Chittaranjanji, Pranaams! GYAnayogena GYAna eva yogaH tena, sA~NkhyAnAM Atma-anAtmaviShaya-vivekaGYAnavatAM brahmacarya-AshramAt eva...
Br. Pranipata Chaitanya
pranipatacha... Offline Send Email
Feb 18, 2012
12:07 am

Namaste Sri Pranipatacharya-ji, ... I think Sri Shankara is here referring to the four mind-born sons of Brahma - Sanaka, Sananda, Sanathana and Sanatkumara -...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 18, 2012
5:50 am

... Namaste. Here is one more reference in the Shankara bhAShya were there is an alluding to a general case and where there is no hint to a reference to the...
V
subrahmanian_v Offline Send Email
Feb 18, 2012
7:27 am

Dear Sri Subbu-ji, Thank you for the clarifications and scriptural passages to support the view that sanyasa may follow either from brahmacharya ashrama or...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
2:55 am

Dear Subbu-ji and All, I don't think i articulated the reasons for my doubt fully. While the Devotees of God, such as those i mentioned in my previous mail,...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
3:58 am

Chittarajanji - PraNAms Here is my understanding. Just from your description it is not different from advaitic understanding. It can be - I am - is full or He...
kuntimaddi sadananda
kuntimaddisada Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
10:58 am

Namaste, I am combining my replies in this post. Namaste Sri Sadananda-ji and Sri Subbu-ji, Thank you, your posts were useful. Subbuji is right, the mention of...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
7:44 pm

... Dear Chitta ji, I think it is possible to view these exalted personalities from different angles. For example while Prahlada can be definitely adored as a...
V
subrahmanian_v Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
1:25 pm

Namaste Subbuji: What you have stated here is quite important and all notions such as nivRtti, pravRtti, Karma-Bhakta-Jnana Yoga, etc. have been created by the...
ramvchandran Offline Send Email Feb 19, 2012
4:06 pm

... Namaste. In the above cited verse, the second line should read: sakaladehinAm....[The meaning I have given above does not differ due to the change.]...
V
subrahmanian_v Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
4:54 pm

... Hari Om Shri Chittaranjanji, Pranaams! Each and every thing/being is permeated by God, but the goal set by upaniShad is vice versa - IshA vAsyam...
Br. Pranipata Chaitanya
pranipatacha... Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
4:31 pm

From:H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to all. ... scheme of the two paths those Supreme Devotees of God, such as Radha and the Gopies, Dhruva, Prahlada,...
sreenivasa
narayana145 Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
7:01 am

Namaste Sri Sreenivasa Murthy-ji, ... Please do not apologize, Sir; I am happy that you are posing these questions. ... The question regarding how such exalted...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 19, 2012
6:15 pm

Namaste Chittaranjan-ji. Thank you for the detailed explanation. I am currently on a visit to India and will be checking my mail only occasionally. I will have...
pkayen Offline Send Email Feb 20, 2012
5:49 am

Dear Sri Neelakantan-ji, ... You are right because you have qualified the ordained karmas with the words 'performing for results'. We need to look at this...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 20, 2012
9:11 am

... But the presence of desire, i.e., looking for the fruits of actions, may be an obstruction to the attainment of chitta-shuddi. That is why in Sloka 13.5,...
V
subrahmanian_v Offline Send Email
Feb 20, 2012
9:35 am

Dear Sri Subbu-ji, Thank you for the clear articulation of Pravritti Marga and Nivritti Marga and about how Karma-Yoga even within Pravritti forms a bridge to...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 20, 2012
12:07 pm

Namaste: Let me take this opportunity to thank Chittaji for initiating the discussions for greater participation and for scholarly contributions. I do want to...
ramvchandran Offline Send Email Feb 20, 2012
2:08 pm

Namaste Sri Ramchandran-ji, I think your suggestion - that the silent readers too join the discussion - is excellent. So far, what we have been discussing (in...
chittaranjan_naik
chittaranjan... Offline Send Email
Feb 22, 2012
6:53 am

Namaste,   I don't think it is the problem with dharma shastra.  Bhagavan Krishna is compassionate enough to say "swalpaMapi dharmasya....".  So, He assured...
venkata sriram
sriram_sapth... Offline Send Email
Feb 22, 2012
10:21 am
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